How to Live a Better & Longer Life with Marta Zaraska & Jim Kwik

How do you live to 100? This is a very provocative title, and I'm so glad you joined us for this episode. In our private Facebook group of over 100,000 of you, we often get these questions about anti-aging. How do you live longer, but not only live longer, but also better? That maybe our minds could grow older, but also improve in many different ways. And so, I'm excited to have with us today Marta, And she's a science journalist, and she's also author of this powerful new book, Growing Young: How Friendship, Optimism, and Kindness Can Help You Live to 100. Marta, thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for inviting me, Jim.

So congratulations on your book. You and I were just talking about launching a book during this interesting time. Um, you've gotten such remarkable feedback. You know, mutual people that we know, like Adam Grant, you know, individuals praising the book. Congratulations. Now, you're a science writer, science journalist. And what made you want to do this research around, you know, living to 100 years old, growing young?

I mean, it came quite naturally from my research as a science journalist. So I write a lot of articles for The Washington Post, for Scientific American, exactly about nutrition and exercise, how to stay long, how to be happy as well, psychology, all these kinds of topics. And And also in my personal life, I've been always into healthy living, you know, how to stay young, how to stay healthy. You know, I was always exercising a lot, eating healthy, and so on. And at the same time, you know, in my professional career, I started coming across more and more research pointing into a little bit different direction and showing that, yes, diet and exercise are important, but actually there are things that are at least as important for our healthy and long living that we don't pay enough attention to. And in particular, I came across this one meta-analysis of studies. So this is, you know, this golden standard of research that very conveniently for me put together all the numbers. And the researchers showed basically that being socially engaged, so having, you know, strong connections with your family, with your friends, with your community, can lower your mortality risk by about 45%. Whereas diet and exercise is usually around 20 to 30%. So, you know, you have 45% here and 20 to 30% there. So it really opened my eyes and I started asking myself, you know, am I doing really the best things for my health and longevity and also for the health of my family? Or maybe I'm really missing on something really big. So this is why I started researching this topic more. And after reading over 600 research papers and talking to dozens of scientists, I wrote Growing Young and I also changed the way I live my life and paying much more attention to social connections, to mindset as well, to mindfulness, to optimism and things like that, as at least as much as to diet and exercise.

That's remarkable. When people hear the research, some people, because often you hear about exercise and working out and what's the, what's the perfect diet, but actually a bigger needle mover are all these more of these, what would you call it, more soft more soft skills, if you will, connections. That's not just your neurological connections, it's also your social network also as well.

I mean, in a way, you know, it is softer in a way, but it also is very, very physiological. We are also talking about the brain and neurons and, you know, for example, the vagus nerve, right, that emerges from your brain, the longest nerve that emerges from your brain and innervates your digestive system, your breathing, and so on. This is one of the links, for example, between how we live our lives socially and how our bodies respond. Also, your social hormones— oxytocin, serotonin, vasopressin, for instance— these are all connectors between how we connect with other people and how our bodies respond. So this is very, very physiological. You have, for example, changes on the level of gene expression on how socially connected you are, how kind you are, and how your body reacts, basically. For example, kindness can be seen on the level of leukocytes, of the gene expression in your leukocytes, so the white blood cells. So it's very, very physiological. So in a way, it is— these are soft drivers of health. But on the other hand, they are as real and as hard as exercise or diet. Wow.

And so what was— I'm just curious, what's some of the— what's one of the most surprising things that came out of research for this book? that would just maybe turn your mind like 180 degrees?

I think for me, for instance, conscientiousness. So conscientiousness is this personality trait that's, you know, sounds very boring in a way because this is when people pay their bills on time or they show to meetings on time, they keep their desk nice and tidy. And it sounds like something that's completely unconnected to longevity, right? It's so far removed from diet or exercise. And yet when I was talking to one of the researchers, he actually said that if conscientiousness could be put into a pill, it would be the most powerful drug on earth. And the reason for that is not only because conscientious people tend to take their medication on time and they tend to exercise as well and so on and so on, but there are actual also physiological connections between how conscientious you are and how long you will live. And this is also something you can train, right? So we can change our personality. There's new research also that emerges now that actually personality is something that can be trained just like our muscles. So for me, this was really shocking, you know, that personality and things like exactly conscientiousness, whether I keep my desk tidy, can actually matter for my health. So it really changed my perspective here, especially on things like parenting, for instance. You know, I used to think that to keep my daughter healthy, I had to make sure that she eats enough broccoli. And now I see that making sure she keeps her room tidy is also part of her future health and longevity. So this was really eye-opening for me.

So personality, when it comes to certain traits, it's not fixed, as your research has found?

I mean, there is genetic components to it, right? So, but basically there is genetic component to almost everything. But on the other hand, it also is changeable. So, you know, when you think about personality traits, like for example, neuroticism, this is something that we've known is changeable for decades. It's something that psychotherapists usually work in therapy on, right? But also things like conscientiousness or extraversion.

Kindness.

Yes. I mean, yeah, kindness as well. It's not a personality trait, but it's also kind of related, right? So empathy, things like this, it all can be changed with basically exercise, you can say. Just like we are all not born with the same types of muscles, we are not all born to be Olympic swimmers, let's say. But I certainly wasn't. But we can all still improve. We don't give up. We still exercise. We try to run faster. We try to run longer or swim more. And the same with empathy. You can exercise it. There is lots of research on it that it just takes us 2 to 6 weeks on average with personality traits when you actually can see changes. And you just start small. You know, you just start with changing one little habit per day, let's say, and both with empathy and with personality traits such as conscientiousness or with optimism, it can really lead to long-term changes.

So, which is amazing that certain things are not fixed. And a lot of these changes could help you to not only live longer, but also live, would you say, better?

I mean, certainly, you know, on one hand, optimism, for instance, right, it can add you anywhere from 4 to 10 years of life. So we are talking a lot of years of life here. But also, on the other hand, when you think about it, optimism, it's nice to be optimistic, right? It kind of makes things more pleasant, I guess. And the same with kindness. For example, there is some fascinating research showing that kindness actually spreads. So when people start doing kind things, other people also start doing kind things around them, right? So it's not only good for your gene expression, your leukocytes, and your longevity and your health, but also for the whole community. So there was this fascinating thing that happened in Canada. It was in Manitoba, I guess, in Tim Hortons, which is, you know, for us Canadians, this is the holy grail of where you get your coffee. Anyway, so in the drive-through of one Tim Hortons, one driver paid for the driver after him. And it started spreading so much, this act of kindness, that in the end, over 200 people paid for the driver after them, which is absolutely amazing. You know, I've never seen broccoli eating spread in the same kind of way. So definitely it's better for our health and for our moods, for our mental well-being, and for the community as well.

So for our listeners who want to live longer, and I can't imagine anyone who doesn't want to live longer and also not only have more years to their life, but life in their years, what are— let's talk about the markers then. So outside of exercise and nutrition, in terms of what do you think moves the markers the most? And then how many— it's fascinating when you mention things like optimism, because somebody could think that they're like, oh, I'm screwed because I'm a pessimist. I'm just saying, or I know somebody, or I'm in a relationship with a person who always kind of sees the negative. And so I guess this is a 2-part question. What are the things that move the needle the most? And then what are the tiny things that you would recommend to somebody listening? To, to be able to change that trait?

I mean, so certainly, you know, if we are talking the most important things out there, so numbers are pretty clear, actually. So the committed, committed romantic relationship, this is the most important thing for your health and longevity. And this really beats diet and exercise. Usually in research, it says marriage, but it doesn't have to be marriage, just has to be really committed. And when you think about it, you know, you said yourself that Sometimes when you live with a pessimist, for example, it can really spread on you as well.

Right.

And it's true that when we live with another person, we actually synchronize even our bodies to the point that we synchronize our heart rate, we synchronize our pulse, we synchronize our finger temperature, and even things like electric conductivity in the chest. So it's amazing how much we actually get in tune with another person with whom we share our lives. And in terms of longevity, it can lower your mortality risk by over 40% when you are in a happy, committed relationship. And this goes beyond— it's not just because, you know, living with another person, people tend to, for example, remind their spouse to, I don't know, exercise, or the kind of nag factor. It goes beyond, far beyond that, precisely because we tend to synchronize our bodies, but also because it has effects on our so-called HPA axis. This is the stress axis, so our fight or flight response. And basically, when we are in a happy relationship, and it's both about marriage but also friendship and family relationships, our stress response basically calms down. So, you know, it starts in your brain. You have this hypothalamus where this whole process starts, and then it sends signals down into our body that cause release of the soup of hormones, including cortisol, adrenaline as well. And when this system malfunctions, it has very negative consequences for our health, you know, in terms of diabetes, heart disease, cancer as well. And we function the best, and our fight-or-flight response also functions the best, when we are surrounded by others with whom we are close. And we evolved this way, right? We are social apes. We evolved to be surrounded by our tribe.

Right.

And if you were alone in the savanna in our evolutionary past, you were in deep trouble, right? You were— all the systems were at high alert. You were sleeping poorly because you were attentive to all the lions creeping on you. And also our antibacterial, so inflammation would go up because you were likely to be wounded. So there are lots of things happening in our body when you were away from your tribe. And, you know, our bodies don't really know that we are no longer on the savanna. They think we are still there. So we still need our tribe just like our ancestors did. And unfortunately, these days, very often we don't live the same way. We live alone, right? So many people live on their own. They, they don't have time for relationships. And this unfortunately has very negative effects on our body. So the most important thing you can be doing for your— for the proper functioning of your body, for your longevity, for your health, for the stress response, is exactly to make sure that you're surrounded by people among whom you feel safe, when you feel connected, that you know that they are there for you.

Amazing. And I think we all need somebody there for us to encourage us, to cheerlead for us, to support us, to make us feel safe. And if you haven't found that person, maybe they could— someone listening, they could be that person for somebody else, you know, and especially be that person for ourselves. So that's one, committed, happy relationships. What would be one other one you would recommend? What would be top of the list?

I mean, we haven't talked about kindness yet. And maybe we touched a little bit on it, but generally kindness, empathy, caring for other people. It also includes volunteering, for instance. Volunteering is a very big predictor of health. People who volunteer have their mortality risk as much lowered as those who eat 6 portions of fruits and vegetables per day. So imagine, you know, you can substitute basically 6 portions of fruits or vegetables per day with volunteering.

Yeah.

Of course, the best is to do both, but just to give you an idea how good it is for your health. So volunteers spend less time in hospitals. Have less risk of diabetes or less risk of inflammation. So these are really, really great things for our health and longevity. And this is all because we have evolved something that scientists call a caregiving system. And this involves such areas of the brain, for instance, like the insula or the septal area. And this wired us to be find caring for others on one hand rewarding, but on the other hand also it helps with stress. And the reason for that is that if you are caring for another person, you have to calm down yourself first. So the responsiveness of your amygdala, for example, in your brain goes down because you have to, you know, you have to be calm to care for others. You cannot be panicking. You know, it's like on a plane, right? You have to put the mask on yourself first because before you're able to help others. And it's the same thing happening in our brain when we're caring for others. puts the safety mask on us first. It calms our stress response. And of course, we all know that stress these days is something that really ruins our health. So when we are caring for other people, when we are being kind, it can be as simple as, I don't know, opening doors for other people or letting others ahead in traffic. When we are volunteering, when we are caring for our family members, this all activates the systems, these caregiving systems, and calms down our stress with all these beneficial effects for our health.

That's tremendous. That's tremendous. And it makes the world a better place also as well. Whereas maybe fear and viruses are contagious, you know, as you mentioned, you know, giving, even at that example where people are paying for their coffee, that, that could spread also as well. And one little act could change, could change the cosmos maybe. What, um, is there one more that you would recommend outside of committed happy relationships, kindness, and empathy? that you feel would be valuable, not replacing exercise and eating right.

But I mean, we haven't talked about meaning and purpose. And these are other things that are also really, really important for your health. So finding purpose to live, meaning in your life. And for example, people who have found meaning, they have less— better antiviral response. So just, you know, in these days, it's kind of Quite important, and is always important, but particularly now. And they also live longer. So finding something to live for. For example, when I was writing Growing Young, I traveled to Japan. You know, this is the longest-lived nation on the planet. So I really wanted to hear, talk to the researchers there, and also to the elderly people there to see what makes them live so long. And one of the things that always comes up in discussions with people who study longevity in Japan is ikigai. So this is something that translates which for us is purpose in life or meaning. And it's such a recognized driver of health in Japan that actually the Ministry of Health there has put it on their official list of recommendations of what to do to live healthy. So not only eat your vegetables, fruits, and exercise, but also find your meaning, find your purpose or ikigai. And, you know, it doesn't have to be anything grand. Sometimes people ask me, but, you know, I don't have this huge thing. I'm not, you know, trying to save the polar bears or anything like that. Yeah, I was going to say, So I don't have purpose. But the truth is, when I talk to the Japanese people, you know, for them, ikigai can be very small. It can be something very basic as keeping your yard tidy so it's nice and pleasant for the neighbors, or caring for your grandchildren, you know, really things that most of us can find. It doesn't have to be huge. It can be huge, of course, but it doesn't have to be. But just having this reason for living, something that you feel you're giving to others, giving back to communities, probably also tied to the caregiving system once again. But it really shows both in studies done in Japan, but also in Western research, that it's particularly healthy for our cardiovascular system for some reason, that it really lowers the risk of heart attacks, for instance, to have meaning or purpose in life.

Yeah, I don't know if this is anecdotal or if there's any truth to this, but they say— somebody mentioned to me the other day that Most heart attacks actually happen on Mondays, you know, or Monday mornings. And I don't think that happens for lions or something like that. Maybe it's connected, if there's any truth to that, to feelings of purpose, potentially.

Could be.

Martha, this is such an interesting conversation. And I love that people can benefit from this now more than ever, you know, where there is— when you're talking about safety, where people feel maybe uncertain, they feel an abundance of stress. And we know chronic stress could shrink your brain. Chronic fear could suppress your immune system, an area of psychoneuroimmunology where you're more susceptible to colds, to viruses, to flus. And just so having those systems in place and little things to be able to create loving, connected relationships, little acts of empathy and kindness, be able to do little things to discover and develop your own your own purpose can make a massive, massive— not a little bit of difference, but a huge difference. Um, I had a question for you. How would people find out more? And I'm sure they want to continue this conversation. Where would they go?

I mean, so the book can be found obviously in all the usual booksellers, with Amazon on the top of the list, but also all the other ones, Indigo and other sellers like that. But you can find more information, also more resources, on the book's website, which is www. growingyoungthebook.com.

growingyoungthebook.com. I would challenge everyone actually to take a screenshot of this episode, whether it's on YouTube or if it happens to be on iTunes or wherever you're watching this, and tag Marta, tag myself so we see it. And let's challenge them to do one thing. Maybe they could, um, what's one small simple step that they could share on their post that would have to do with growing young, what would you like them to post?

I know, I don't know where to start, but maybe some kind of small acts of kindness, how you can be kind to the people around you. It both boosts relationships, right? Being kind to your friends or to your family can improve your relationships, but also can have direct effects on your health. So maybe, you know, small, small nice things you can do for other people.

I love that. So either post your notes from this conversation or post one small act of kindness that you will, because kindness is like a superpower and it's free. So we should be sprinkling that everywhere. And as always, I will put the show notes at jimkwik.com/notes along with links to the book and also Marta's social media. I'll actually repost some of my favorites. So I encourage everyone to to post it and share, because when you share it, you're not only being kind to somebody, but you get to teach them, so then other people can benefit also as well. And I actually bought an extra couple copies of Growing Young. I'll actually send those 2 copies to 2 random people who share this, this post. So, Marta, thank you so much for being on our show.

Thank you so much, Jim, for having me on your show.

Thank you everyone also for listening, and, uh, we'll see you in our next episode.

Hi, Kwik Brain, it's your brain coach. I want to thank you so much for watching this video. 3 things to do. Number 1, make sure you share this because when you teach something, you get to learn it twice. Update your learning so you can update other people's learning as well. Number 2, make sure you subscribe to this channel so you don't miss a thing because if you miss a video, you miss a lot. And finally, make sure you hit that bell so you you're notified and you find out when we put out the latest and the greatest. One extra thing, if you want really close attention, then text me. Here is my phone number, 310-299-9362. Did you remember that number?

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Shoot me a text and we'll stay in touch. Ask me your burning question. And I wish your days be full of lots of life, lots of love, lots of laughter, and always lots of learning. I'll see you in our next video.

Bye.