Kwik Brain Episode 106: Activating Wonder & Fascination in Learning with Danica McKellar

Welcome back, Kwik Brains. So here's your question today. How do you add more wonder and fascination into your learning and into your life? You've heard me say many times that all learning is state-dependent, that the state that you're in is so important when you listen to a podcast or you read a book or you go to a class or a seminar, because that information gets tagged and can really combine with that information. That emotion helps you to remember it and recall it. And I'm really excited about talking to you today because we're going to talk about the power of wonder, the power of play. So I'm really excited to have Danica McKellar here because as— and I want to mention that name, many of you automatically, you think about Wonder Years. And I'm such a big fan, Winnie Cooper and growing up in that time. And what many people don't know is she's really, she's a math whiz. And when I say math, some people are like, love math, or some people not such big fans of math. And she's also a New York Times bestselling author of a series of math books, which I'm really excited to be able to share with our community. Danica, thanks for being here.

Oh, thank you. I thought you were going to mention the word wonder one more time in there.

Wonder.

Just to help prep people for what was coming with The Wonder Years.

Yeah, for those of you watching on video, I have a shirt that says, made of wonder.

Wonder, yeah. All right, and I just met Jim for the first time in person, and I'm looking at his shirt thinking, yeah, I know.

I know.

I know what that's about.

It is coming. But this is— I think it's one of the most important conversations because I feel like when people have subjects that they're interested in, whether it's math or something else, that if they don't have a deep interest in it or a positive association to it, then they're not really going to engage in it. They're not going to learn it really well.

Yeah, and the opposite of not having a positive engagement is actually actively having a negative association with the subject. And math, unfortunately, has a really bad rap. Math has this reputation of being too Too hard, too boring, too scary, all sorts of things. That's actually what inspired me to first write math books over 10 years ago now with Math Doesn't Suck because I couldn't believe after I got my degree in mathematics how many people said, wait, what? Why would you study math? You're an actress. What are you doing with your life? Which is kind of funny. I realized this and I was stunned that especially women would balk at it and tell me. People confess to me, men and women confess suddenly, I couldn't do math, or I was okay at math for a while, but then there was this one test or this one teacher or this one experience. There was this one point in my life after which I couldn't do it anymore and that was it.

Wow.

That to me, there's no coincidence that that story keeps happening again and again and being told to me again and again. I believe that it is because of a preconception of the subject because if your brain tells you— if you tell yourself you're not going to be good at something and then you're doing fine, you're doing fine, you're just waiting for that piece of evidence to put the nail in the coffin that you already had set up for yourself. If somebody is optimistic about something like math or anything difficult, then when you hit a stumbling block, you will tend to see it as a temporary stumbling block, but if you believe that it wasn't meant for you, then when you hit that stumbling block in math or anything, if you have that one test that you failed or the one teacher that you couldn't understand or that one experience, that one class, that will, instead of seeming like a temporary obstacle, it will feel like evidence of what you've known deep down all along, which is that you don't belong in math. And I think this has plagued more women than men, but it plagues everyone because of the reputation that our society has created For math. We think of math as something that's just for nerds, just for boys, just for people who don't have social lives, and it couldn't be farther from the truth, which is why I stand from the rooftops any chance I get to talk about the benefits of math and how anybody can be good at math if you put your mind to it.

So math is cool, it's sexy.

It can be. It can also be boring and horrible. It really depends on the way it's presented. When I was in the 7th grade, I had a math teacher that I just didn't understand. I would come home and cry.

So you weren't naturally good at math?

I was in some ways, but I wasn't a genius. People like to say that. I'm not sure why, but it's not true. I mean, I was a hard worker and I loved a good challenge. But in 7th grade, I had a teacher that I didn't understand at all, and I thought it was me. Students and anyone listening who had a math teacher or math class that they felt really stupid in can probably relate. You never, as the student, imagine that it's your fault. I mean, that it's the teacher's fault. You assume it's your fault. You assume that you just don't get it. Why? Because math has this reputation of being so hard. And when you're a child, teachers are an authority figure. It's kind of like your parents. When you're young enough, you think they know everything.

Right.

Now, being a parent myself, I know that that's not true. But at the time, I didn't know that it was the teacher. Midway through the year, we got a new teacher. And suddenly, the same exact topics that had completely confounded me made sense and were fun. And you know what she did? She made it fun. Like you're talking about with it having an emotional attachment that's like a fun emotion and your brain tags your experience with that emotion. Yes, she would talk about functions like they were sausage factories. You put in a value for x and then the function does something to it like the sausage factory will. First, it'll slice it up and then it'll squish it together and it'll put it in the lining or whatever it does. Depending on what x you put in, you'll get a different sausage, but the factory is doing the same thing. She taught us functions that way and it was so fun. It's fun and it gives you these associations and these pictures in your heads. I took that same philosophy and that's what I've written my entire McKellar Math line about, to help people not have that stigma attached to it, to shake it off. I use a lot of humor, cartoons, whatever I have to, funny stories, because I, from firsthand, know the difference that the way math is presented will tell your brain how to view it and how well you're going to absorb it.

Because a good teacher makes a big difference.

It can make all the difference.

Right. We did an episode where I tricked people how to memorize the— I taught them how to memorize the periodic table without realizing it using creative imagination and stories.

I love that.

But that's when you use more of that right-brain side.

It's the mnemonic devices.

Right.

Yeah. It's a fun thing that you're— something visual or something funny, all those things. I mean, so Do Not Open This Math Book is one of my more recent books. It's for ages 6 to 8, and you can tell from the title. Do not open this math book. Look, I've got an 8-year-old, and I know that reverse psychology works, and it does. So it's full of comic strips and funny things, and I teach place value, which is a really important concept for that age. And Mr. Mouse is always giving my little Danica cartoon a hard time about things. And it's just a fun dynamic. It's just, who doesn't want to learn math from cartoon strips?

We all do.

Why didn't I get to learn math that way? That's what I want to know.

When I was going through your books, I was thinking, why weren't Right, right. You know, they've been teaching the same way sometimes over and over again through repetition, and people don't have relevancy of how they could use it towards things, which—

Well, and look, they did change math recently, but not in a way that people, that most people seem to like very much. It's called Common Core, Common Core Math, and that's actually part of why I wrote Do Not Open This Math Book, because that's— I had parents telling me I can't help my 6 and 7-year-old with their homework because I don't recognize it. What is going on? This is addition. This is subtraction. How could it be so different? And they call everything different. They don't have the same names. It's not carrying and borrowing. It's regrouping and ungrouping and it's just different and they break things down. And I do see some benefit to Common Core. I really do. I just feel like maybe it was a little overdone. So I even have a new math translation guide for grown-ups in the back of this one because Too much of it just looks different and they're using different vocabulary.

I love that.

Let's try to make things fun for both the students and the parents so that, you know what, as a parent, you want to be your child's superhero. You want to save the day. You want to have the answers for them and help them get to the next place. And so I'm really excited that I've had so many parents tell me that they love reading this book with their little ones and reading the cartoons together and making things clearer.

And I could highly recommend the books also for that inner child inside of us that needs a little bit of healing along the way.

I know.

We were traumatized because We had to go to, as a kid, to the blackboard with our chalk and solve a problem, and we didn't do it well, and we have a fear of numbers ever since.

I still remember in that 7th grade class with the teacher that didn't make sense to me, I remember getting this test and like it looked so foreign. I'd studied so hard, and you know that feeling in the back of your neck when the hairs kind of prickle up and then you get all hot and you just want to die. You just don't want to be there.

Somewhere, anywhere else but right here, right now, when that math test is handed to you and you don't feel Yeah, even when you're describing it, myself, and I know a lot of people who are listening, like you're going back again. You get like heart palpitations. I am. I literally am going back to that place.

But you know, so the first book I ever wrote, Math Doesn't Suck, that's a book that a lot of adults will literally go back and just use because just to face those old demons.

Right.

You know, it's percents and it's decimals and it's fractions, things that come up in the real world, which also happens to be very practical. And I've had a lot of parents tell me, and not just parents, but just adults who don't even have kids will say, you know, I got your book. And I feel so much better because I was always afraid of math and I didn't want to like take that to the grave, basically.

And we're talking about fascination and wonder and enthusiasm for things. I always tell people that these aren't things that you have. These are things that we do. And so people wake up and say like, oh, I hope I have motivation or I have focus or I have creativity today. But then we're on like defense. Hope is not a really great strategy. But if you take it and say that these aren't things you have, these are things that you do, like they're verbs.

Right.

You don't have focus, you do focus. You don't have creativity, you do creativity. And even this conversation we're having about wonder, you don't have wonder, you could actually do wonder. You could add visualization, you could add stories, you could add metaphors, and you could add games, and all of a sudden, it becomes much more empowering, whether you're an adult or a child.

Yeah, absolutely.

If you're a trainer and you have a team of people and you wanna make it more engaging and you wanna get them into a, a wonderful, literally wonder-filled state, you could add these kind of elements that are much more imagination and creativity and strategy that just make it fun.

Yeah, well, and again, when I first wrote Math Doesn't Suck, which is for like 6th grade, I said I want it to feel like kindergarten, because no matter how old you are when you're learning something, you want it to feel like, like you said, like a game, like something fun. I don't know, I'm not as well-versed in the parts of the brain as you are, But I know it engages a different part of your brain when you feel like you're having fun while you're learning. It's just different. It's a whole different experience.

Absolutely.

It couldn't be more different, and yet you're still learning.

And you're motivated to do it also.

Right.

And why not? And I think a lot of people forget the things that they learned in school because they learned it in a bored state. And if it's information times emotion becomes a long-term memory, if the emotion level is zero, anything times zero becomes zero.

That's very true.

And then you wonder why you forget the presidents or the periodic table or all these things. But you're saying that even students, even if the teacher is not teaching, which it would be wonderful if they taught the way you prefer to learn, that they could use their imagination and creativity and turn things into a game and entertain themselves.

It's just a matter of time. These teachers are so overworked and they don't have the time or the resources. Some teachers actually use my books for that. And so if any teachers listening, there are tons of fun tips and little stories and things you can integrate into your classroom just to keep the kids awake.

It's amazing.

Alive.

I sent this to— my mother is a schoolteacher. She became a schoolteacher because she didn't know how to help me with my special learning challenges, but we sent copies of your books to my nieces and my nephews, and so they're loving that. So thank you so much.

Oh, I'm glad. My pleasure.

My pleasure. This is exciting. So how do people find out more? We've had this conversation about wonder, and I think a great next step is for people to get the books. So they could get it on Amazon.

Yeah, they're on Amazon. They're on barnesandnoble.com, and if you just want to see what all the books are, You can go to mckellarmath.com and you'll see them all there. McKellar is spelled with an A-R at the end.

Amazing. And I challenge everybody to take a screenshot of this video or this podcast episode and tag us both in it.

I forgot we were recording video. Hi, everyone.

And tag us both in this. And then I feel like one of the ways of learning things faster is to teach it to other people.

Yes.

So if you take a snapshot of it, tag us both, and share and teach everybody in your community your big aha, like your big takeaway from this conversation, And as always, I repost some of my favorite. And actually, maybe I'll be able to persuade you to sign these books and maybe we could give away copies to some of our favorite posts.

Absolutely. Yeah, we've got books ages 0 to 16. So depending on your kid's age, there's probably a book for you.

Amazing. If they're 6 years old or 66 years old, these books will work.

Or if you're a grown-up, Math Doesn't Suck or Kiss My Math or all the books too.

That does it.

Thanks, Annika. Thank you.