Kwik Brain Episode 120: How to Fix a Broken Heart with Guy Winch

Welcome back, Kwik Brain. Your question of today, and this is one that we see so much on our Facebook group, is how do you fix a broken heart? How do you do it? How do you deal with heartache and heartbreak in a relationship? And if you're not going through it, I bet somebody you know is. So how do you support a person that's going through that situation? So I'm excited about talking about this today, and if You're thinking, Jim, what does this have to do with my brain? You know, this is a brain show. You're the brain coach. You're my brain trainer. Well, I think you're going to learn today that heartbreak affects your brain. And also what we're doing with our mind could either help empower us or actually disempower us also as well. So we have a very special guest here today. I'm really looking forward to this interview myself. I've been trying to get Guy on our show for quite some time. Dr. Guy Winch, thank you for being here.

It's my pleasure.

So Guy has authored numerous books, 26 different languages. His TED Talks have been seen by millions of people across the world because this is a common challenge that a lot of us face. So how would you— first of all, for our watchers, our viewers, our listeners, how would you describe heartbreak, or what is a broken heart?

So let's talk about romantic heartbreak, because I think people use heartbreak in so many ways. You know, people are heartbroken when their favorite soccer team loses, and I'm like, yes, painful, but really not comparable to romantic heartbreak. Romantic heartbreak is unusual because there is no other experience in life that can make a sane person act really crazy.

Mm.

And really go nuts and do things they would never do otherwise. And so it's impactful in very significant ways, so much so that most people's experience is that, what is happening to me? Why am I reacting in this way? Why am I feeling so, so broken? It's a very dramatic thing, and we unusually don't know much about it. And by we, I mean the public at large. We don't know enough about it, but there's a lot of information about it, and I hope we'll talk about that today.

This is wonderful because I feel like When we're talking about people's minds, like, what are some of the things people are doing that you say is out of character, that's not very logical when they're going through heartbreak?

So I've really heard stories, right, of people impulsively getting on planes, not showing up for work for 2 weeks because they're getting on a flight to fly to some distant country where the girl who broke their heart, you know, is living. And that's their response to an email, as opposed to Picking up the phone or something impulsively, let's get on a flight, flooding somebody with sometimes hundreds of emails and text messages. We will not do that in any other context, right? Camping out outside people's homes, stalking virtually and in real life, and, you know, to the extent, real sometimes criminal activity, just as a response to the grief that they're experiencing from the broken heart.

So what's going on— if people can see my shirt, I don't know if they can, but it's like a heart and a brain, these organs.

Yes.

How does heartbreak affect— how does it affect that other organ, our brain?

So what's interesting is when we've done— and by we, I mean, you know, the research community at large— functional MRI scans, brain scans, with people who are heartbroken, specifically in some of these experiments, they've asked people who were recently heartbroken to bring a picture of the person who broke their heart, and then they put them in the MRI tube, stick the picture to the top of the tube, have them look at the person and relive the breakup as they're looking at what's happening in their brain. And what they found was very surprising, because they see the same kind of brain activity you would see in addicts that are recovering or that are actually withdrawing from substances like opioids or cocaine.

Cocaine.

And so you see real withdrawal symptoms. Now, when you have a heroin addict who's jonesing for a fix, it wouldn't surprise anyone that that person would go to desperate lengths and desperate measures to get a fix. That's the state we're in when we're heartbroken. That's why we do desperate things. Our brain is reacting in very much the same way. We feel as though the only thing that will make us feel okay in life is that person, contact with them, getting them back. And that desperation is profound.

So it's like an addiction.

It is. Whether love is an addiction is actually a separate and an interesting question. And there are researchers who would like to see love classified as an addiction in— now there's something horribly unromantic—

Right.

Classifying love as an addiction. So let's put that question aside. But the withdrawal of it certainly evokes the same kind of addiction behaviors and responses within our brain and within our behavior that substances do.

So it's kind of like our heart is almost metaphorically, it's hijacking our brain. When you think about it, it might not be logical, but it's certainly biological. You're thinking about like dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, all those endorphins that we used to have. And then why does our mind You know, the brain is an incredible device. It deletes and it distorts. It starts remembering all the amazing times with that other person, but it's just not remembering the other side of it.

So first of all, I love hijack as the description, because actually it's a great way to describe what's going on. It feels like our brain has been hijacked, like it's doing things that we have zero control over. Somebody else is in the driver's seat. Now essentially, our mind evolved to be able to deal with the dangers of the environment. evolved to keep us from harm.

Mm-hmm.

If we touch a hot stove, um, as children and it hurts, the next time we approach a hot stove, our mind will make us very anxious, and our mind will try and keep that memory alive as long as possible so we don't make that mistake again. It's similar with heartbreak. Our mind's job is to remind us, ooh, that was really painful. Let's keep that pain as alive as possible so that we don't make that mistake again. Again, so our mind's job to prevent us from making the quote-unquote mistake again is to keep the pain alive by reminding us of how amazing that person was and how wonderful things were with them, so that— because those are the memories, of course, that hurt the most, that aggravate the grief most. And by doing so, our mind is hoping that we don't make a mistake again, because unfortunately, our mind doesn't distinguish between a hot stove and love. And so it responds in very much the same ways. Now, we need to override that. We need to understand that what our mind is doing is manufacturing these very curated memories to keep our hope alive, to keep the memory fresh. And those are going to hurt more and more. But they're curated as much as social media is curated. They're not a realistic picture. And we don't remember the good things and we don't remember the The bad things about the person, rather, and we don't remember the bad things about the relationship. It's all very, very whitewashed and lovely in a very inaccurate way.

So what would your recommendation be for somebody who's listening or they're watching? How do they regain control over their thoughts and their— because it's— are you saying they should think about the negative things also? It's not being negative, it's just being more accurate.

Yes. Indeed, that's how I think about it. I really suggest that people list, sometimes I say on their phone, all the negative things about the person and about the relationship. And this is not to vilify the person. This is to balance out a naturally unbalanced perception that we have in our mind. So every time your mind goes to that amazing weekend we had, which was just so idyllic, and we would do anything to get back, we have to remember that— The But the days following that amazing weekend were rather hellish perhaps because we argued, because it was difficult, because of all those things, all those things that we're not going to think about in that moment, all the compromises we made, all the ways in which we weren't able to do the things that we wanted to do, or our friends that that person didn't like and therefore we lost touch with. In other words—

Mm-hmm.

Just make it balanced. And I'm not saying make it negative, but make it balanced in that way. That would be really important. But the other very important thing is not to go down the rabbit holes our mind is going to send us down of reinforcing our grief. Now, our goal in recovery from heartbreak is very simple. It is to get that person out of our thoughts as much as possible.

Yeah.

To have them occupy our thoughts less and less, and to have that hurt less and less as that happens. And our mind, again, is going to work in opposite directions. It's going to make us think about them over and over again. So we need to not indulge that. So we need to not stalk them on social media. We need to not go through every picture we have of every vacation we took together and reminisce, because all that's doing is exacerbating our pain.

It's like somebody who has problems with drugs is having Those triggers in their environment that makes them long for it, or maybe even want for it.

Very much so, but it's worse with heartbreak, right? Because let's say you're a heroin addict, so those triggers are going to be certain kinds of people, or the crack houses, or wherever, you know, you might go. But reminders of a significant other, or of a significant relationship, are actually everywhere. They're in all kinds of different possessions we have, all the restaurants, We went to, the streets we walked in.

And your social, your friends.

Our friends, and in social media. And we're going to have images and communications embedded in so many different places, in emails and in texts and in messaging and in, you know, on Instagram and on Facebook and on here. And everyone's connected. And so even if you are able to go through and get rid of those, then, you know, your third cousin will post a picture because they're friends with somebody. And so it's actually much more difficult. to do that, and we have to be more diligent about really trying to limit that kind of exposure.

And I know we're gonna have another discussion, maybe in another episode, about grief and loneliness, but do you recommend also that somebody who's going through this, that they don't spend time alone, that they, they try to restore and be active again in their social life?

Yeah, so there are 2 very important things in what you said there. Number one, social support is very important. We know from the research that getting social support is actually a very important thing. Now, we have to be careful in how we get it, because when we're very heartbroken, we can tax our relationships. I mean, most people have had the experience of the heartbroken person coming to them at month 5 going like, I still can't believe that that's what happened. And you're like, really? For the 100th time? I can't take it anymore. In your head, hopefully.

Right.

But it can really be taxing to our relationships. So we should spread the wealth, right? We should, like, get support from a variety of different people rather than overload it, you know, on one or two, you know, specific, you know, people, as it were.

Sure.

But the other thing you said is even more important, and that is that there are all these voids that exist after a breakup because we used to be a we. We used to have our weekends planned together. We used to do all these things together, all these activities together. And now there are going to be a lot of gaps, a lot of missing pieces in our lives which we have to actively rebuild. And the sooner we can rebuild them, the sooner we can recover. And that means literally activities, it means literally things in our homes, and it means pieces of our identity. Who was I before I met that person? Or who do I want to be now that I'm not with that person? What aspects of myself did I have to sacrifice? Because we all do. to some extent in relationships, and which ones of those do I need to recover? Doing those things again will help us move forward and recover.

Now you touched on something that I feel is really important. Even if somebody is not currently going through a breakup, we could all— most of us can relate because we've gone through heartache. What advice would you give on the other side to a friend or family member who's seeing somebody they love suffer? You know, usually the advice is, oh, you're too good for that person, or, oh, just give it time. Are those helpful?

So, yes, and it— but it's a mix. First of all, certainly in the early stages of heartbreak, just emotional support and validation. Allow them to speak. Offer them the same kind of condolences you would to any other kind of grief, because this is a form of unsanctioned grief, in a way. We experience grief in heartbreak in the same way we do with other forms of actual loss and grief of a loved person.

Of a parent or a pet.

Correct. And so, in that case, you know, if somebody lost a parent, you would be, oh, I'm so sorry, and you would allow the person to talk, and you would just be sympathetic. That is what I would do in those first stages of heartbreak, offer that same kind of just a listening ear and sympathy. and be there for them in that way. As we go further on, then I think it's okay to come and say, you know, you're talking about that person in such idyllic terms, but I do want to remind you of the conversation we had a month ago in which you said you can't stand them and you want to smash their face in. Because maybe you need to remember that part of it as well, you know.

Mm-hmm.

And— or remember how they upset you in this way, or remember how you constantly had to compromise about that. Those little Reminders might be important, but later on, not right at the beginning.

So really, 2 amazing takeaways for everybody who's listening. Number one, you would say put there some of those bad attributes or negative attributes, even on your own phone. Do you call that something?

I call it a list.

A list. So it's constantly there and to remind you of the other side, that it wasn't always that positive and that idyllic. And then number 2, look, do the best you can to fill in those gaps. If you used to work out with that person or you used to do, you know, every Friday night with that person, make sure you fill in those gaps so you could also fill in those holes in your heart.

Absolutely. So find a new workout partner. And if you used to watch whatever series with that person, then find a new person to watch that series with. In other words, the functions that person had and served in your life must be replaced. And so start replacing them, and do so very, very consciously and very proactively, even if you don't think that's important. But if there was something— oh, we always went for strolls over here, and I love to stroll over there—

Mm-hmm.

Find someone to stroll with. And even if it's temporary, because it's not giving up things that were important for you, it's finding a way to reclaim them as yours now, as a part of You as rather than you in the context of a relationship.

I love that so much. This is so great because, and I think some people could also relate where they had a breakup and they thought it was the end of the world, but there was actually some kind of potential gift out of it. Just like how people go through post-traumatic stress, there could be some post-traumatic growth that came through going through it because sometimes we have to have you know some kind of incredible. break down or break up to have an undeniable breakthrough in some— potentially that there's some light at the end of the tunnel?

I think that's true of any difficult experience we go through in life. There's the potential to learn from it and to grow from it, but that often doesn't happen naturally. We have to make that happen. And so you might want to go through and figure out at some point, well, what did I learn from that relationship? What did I learn about relationships? What did I learn about myself? What did I learn about how I should be in relationships? What did I learn about what I like and what I don't like, or what I was ignoring and what I shouldn't ignore in the future? Most people in some kind of postmortem can identify, like, oh, you know, there were these things I never addressed. I really should have addressed them earlier. And my response is usually, yes, and so next time, make sure you do.

Yeah.

You know, and so there's always ways we can, we can do that. But especially when it comes to redefining ourselves afterwards, because we get to do that. We get to have a reboot of who we are, in a way. And that reboot is up to us, and that's in our control. And we can implement all kinds of self-changes we might have been thinking about for a long time anyway. And it's actually a good opportunity to do it, because unfortunately, we might be in pieces, but it's when we're in pieces that you can then reformulate and bring things together in a newer way. That's harder to do when we're not in pieces.

I love that so much. Thank you so much. I would challenge actually everybody to take a screenshot of this episode or of this video and post it on social media. Tag Guy, tag myself, and maybe share your, your story if you'd like. Maybe a big aha moment or something that you learned, or maybe questions. As always, I'll repost some of our favorites, and we're also going to gift copies of Guy's books as a thank you for sharing this with other people, because our goal here, as you know, is to leave no brain or no heart left behind. How can people find out more about, about you besides getting your books, which are extraordinary?

Thank you. They can go to guywinch.com, and there'll be a lot of information there that they can find about my books, my talks, and other things that I'm doing.

Amazing. Thank you, Guy.

Thank you very much.

We wish everybody their days be full of lots of life, lots of laughter, lots of learning, and obviously lots of love.

Lots of love.

Thank you, everybody.