The Secrets to Changing Your Habits in 2024 | Eric Zimmer

There are ways to change behavior. We can do it. It's hard, but lots of people do do it.

People could make 4 choices for change.

The motivation is driven by feeling better.

Whatever you nourish flourishes.

Think of it as a puzzle, not as a failing.

It's our wit, our will, or the way.

If you spend a lot of time wondering about that question, you have your answer.

How do we make change and transformation last?

So if we were to start with one core principle to behavior change, it would be...

From homeless addict to behavioral coach and podcast host, Eric Zimmer's incredible journey demonstrates the power of behavioral change through the understanding of our minds and consciously reshaping our actions. In this episode, we will answer the questions on why it is seemingly impossible to change our behaviors, break addictive patterns, and how to create significant and long-lasting changes. Who does not want that? Welcome back, Quick Brains. I am your host and your brain coach, Jim Kwik. Eric is a behavioral coach who has spent the past 20 years guiding people through significant life changes by helping them build new empowering habits aligned with their core goals. He also hosts the award-winning podcast, The One You Feed, featuring insights from leading experts, including myself. of recent on creating a life of meaning and fulfillment grounded in both science and timeless wisdom. Eric offers practical tools to shape our minds and behaviors so that we can consciously build the lives we aspire towards. Welcome to the podcast, Eric.

Thanks, Jim. I'm glad to be here.

So glad. I really enjoyed being on your show. Congratulations on the success of that.

Thank you. Yeah, I love talking with you too. I'm happy to see you again.

Making a lasting change in our behavior is hard. Few of us are successful at doing it. You think about New Year's resolutions, and I think somewhere of what, 8% of the people actually follow through on those resolutions. How does the science of behavioral change help you make significant and long-lasting transformations in your life? Let's talk about a little bit your perspective on this.

Yeah, I mean, I wish it was a sentence I could give you or 2 sentences I could give you. what you said, there's a science of behavior change, points to the idea that we've done a bunch of research on this, right? We've spent a lot of time wondering why some people change and others don't, right? And the honest truth is nobody fully knows the answer to that, right? Like, if you fully knew the answer to that, you would be extraordinarily rich because you would solve all, you know, huge parts of the world's problems, right? But there are principles that we do know are much more likely to make it possible that you do change. We just can't put them all into one sentence. But there's a number of them out there that we could talk through that are guiding ideas, I think, that make it more likely that we're going to change.

Let's give our listeners some context. Maybe you could draw on your experience in terms of— give a couple minutes on some of your history. And I want to talk about also the The reason you call your amazing podcast The One You Feed.

My, you know, my first real time that I had to change something in my life significant was at 24. I found myself a homeless heroin addict. You know, I had a very low bottom. I was looking at going to jail for a lot of years. I had basically burnt my life to the ground. And so the question of how to change that, how to stop doing that behavior, became paramount to me. Obviously, it's nothing like going to jail for a long time or potentially being close to dying. I weighed 100 pounds. I had hepatitis C. That'll help you really focus in on something, right? And I got sober through 12-step programs, which are well known throughout the world as one way that many people who have addictive problems ranging from alcohol to drugs to gambling— there's 12-step programs for sex. I mean, there's for food. It's one method of bringing about a change. And it got a lot of things right. You know, it's a good framework for what a lot of the principles are for behavior change, right? And I mean, a couple of them are pretty straightforward, but they are, you know, that there's community, right? You're not doing it alone. And I think if there was one thing that you would take away, if you're like, you're trying to change any behavior, it would be how do you garner support? In doing that, right? It's just, it's undeniable, whether it's quitting an addiction, whether it's about going to the gym, whatever it is. If you've got people that are encouraging you, supporting you, and holding you accountable, you've got a far better chance, you know? And, and I would go as far to say people who have serious addiction will not recover without some degree of help. It doesn't have to be a 12-step program. There's lots of ways to get help today, particularly in today's world. There are options that were not available to me 25 years ago that are now. But even within those, there is, it is some measure of other people being part of your support. And so if we were to start with one core principle to behavior change, it would be find help.

And so before we go into more of those key principles and those common threads that are found that seem universally applicable to individuals looking to, to make a positive change and who doesn't, For the new year or any given time, people either want to stop something or they want to start something. So this is a very timely conversation. Yeah, I think it's interesting for people who don't know, maybe— I don't know if you call it a parable of the wolves.

Yeah, so the podcast is called The One You Feed, and it's based off of a parable, or I should say I start every episode reading this parable and asking my guests kind of what it means to them. And the parable is one many people will have heard. It says, you know, that in life we all have 2 wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness, bravery, and love. The other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second and asks their grandparent, well, you know, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So you could substitute anything you want in there, right? If you're trying to get in better shape, right? You have one part of you saying, go to the gym. In the morning and another part of you saying, sit on the couch and sip your coffee and surf the internet, right? We all recognize what it is to have these competing impulses within us that push us further towards what matters to us or away from what matters to us. Now, you know, in the case of something like my heroin addiction, right, that, that bad wolf is a really bad wolf, right? I mean, it was eating me, but none of— I don't think anybody listening won't be familiar with that dynamic, right? Old cartoons had it as an angel and devil on one show. shoulder, right? This is a common theme through history because we all know what it's like to have these 2 competing ideas. In behavior change, they might call them competing commitments, right? You got competing commitments. That's what the parable is speaking to.

And is that— would that be your answer? Because you've asked hundreds of your guests, you know, what this parable means to us. And would that be—

would that be accurate? That would certainly be part of it. Yeah. I mean, if you were to ask me what my answer is, I would say It shows when you hear it, you immediately get it. You're like, oh, my choices matter. What I do, what I think about and what I do matters to the quality of my life. And then the further thing that I love about that parable is that it does normalize what I think is the human condition. You know, in that parable, it says we all have, right? So you're not, there's nothing deficient in you that you have these 2 things going on. There's nothing deficient in you in that one part of you wants to eat the cake and one part of you doesn't want to eat the cake.

Right.

Like we're all built And it just normalizes that. So that's the other thing I love about the parable is it, it states what I think is a truth about the human condition.

Yeah. And I think everybody's going through some kind of conflict almost on the daily where these things come into play. And it's been my experience, you know, part of my answer to you on when I was a guest on your show was whatever you nourish flourishes, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's, it's so very true. And so knowing that support is a key principle and I want everybody Again, this is kind of like a micro masterclass, if you will, in behavioral change. And I encourage people to go deeper in your podcast, certainly. And we'll put links in the show notes at jimkwik.com/notes. And we'll talk about how to get on, you know, more people I'm sure will want to find out more after this conversation. So besides support, how do we address the root causes of behavioral change? Like how do we make change and transformation last if you're working with a friend or a client or one of your— one of our listeners. Are you a high achiever constantly seeking that next level of success? Welcome to the Kwik Success Program. It's a deep dive and support system to master your life and scale to new heights in personal and professional achievement. Included is our exclusive monthly book club where we process transformative ideas from amazing books to level up your learning and your life. We also bring the author to the club to answer your burning questions. You can also participate in monthly live coaching calls with me where your questions meet my decades of expertise. Simply go to kwiksuccess.com.

That's kwiksuccess.com and choose the plan that works best Well, if you want to talk about making, you know, there's a, there's sort of like making it happen and then there's making it last, right? And so if we want to talk about making it last, you know, not everybody's the same. So the one thing I will say is there are principles out there, but we have to sort of think about how they apply to us. And a really good thing to do is ask yourself, what has gone wrong in the past when Something you were doing something and you were being successful and then you stopped. What happened? Look at that to try and see. Now, what I have found is for many, many people, what happens is that they create a new routine and it's going pretty well as long as that routine doesn't get messed with. So I'm going to go to the gym every day at 9 AM and I actually get some motivation going and I'm going every day at 9 AM and things are going good. And then I go on vacation for a week. And when I come back, it just sort of slips away.

Right.

Or I'm doing really well and all of a sudden my child gets sick for 3 days and I'm not, I'm not dropping them off at daycare at 8 and going to the gym. I'm home with a child and I don't do it. And then what usually happens for a lot of people, particularly if you're the sort of person that has had problems, you know, in your mind, if you would describe yourself as I'm the kind of person who has trouble sticking with things or following through, what will happen is as soon as your good routine starts to become derailed, your brain will start to say to you, see, I knew you couldn't do it. You know, how many times, how many times, Eric, did you start going to the gym and now you've quit again? And that is discouraging, right? And one thing we know about motivation is we tend to be more motivated by feeling good about ourselves than feeling bad about ourselves, right? You know, if, and a lot of these things are things that you talk about. I don't think I'm breaking any ground that you don't often also talk about, but But when we start to become discouraged, when we think, oh, I'm never going to stick with this, right? Well, what's going to happen? You're not going to stick with it. So, so that's why I encourage people to look at what is it that gets in the way. You know, another thing that often gets in the way, I'm doing, I'm, I'm going along and I'm doing well. And I sort of hit a plateau. Like in the beginning, I start having a lot of, you know, I'm going to the gym and all of a sudden I'm like, wow, I'm feeling better. I'm losing weight. I'm a little bit lighter in my body. And then We normalize to that, right? We, we, we habituate to anything. And so all of a sudden, it doesn't feel— it felt really different in the beginning, and now it feels kind of normal, right? And so that can be another place if you sort of feel like you're hitting a plateau. And there's a few different ways to work with that. But, but one of them, you know, is just to simply sort of remember how you feel when you don't do it, you know? So like for me, I exercise regularly enough that I can't be like, I keep feeling better and better and better and better. Right? I'd feel superhuman, right? But I know what happens when I stop.

Hmm.

Now, I don't have to learn that lesson again, thankfully, but I had to many, many times. I would stop and be like, oh, I was feeling good. Then I started feeling crappy again, and then I started exercising and I started feeling better. And so now I know in general, like, yeah, I may not keep having upward gains, right? But, but it's part of my maintenance that makes me feel Okay. You know, another thing is to, to be able to tie the reward as close to the action as possible. So for example, if I am, you know, if I'm feeling like I'm, I'm hitting a plateau, maybe what I can focus on is that like, I don't feel, I feel tired. I go exercise afterwards. I feel better. Maybe it's not noticeably crazy better, but it's better. And that's the case. All the time for me. Like every single time I do it, I'm like, I'm glad I did that, right? That's another way of sort of bringing the reward. Oh, I feel better after I exercise closer to the action, right? Versus if I'm like trying to lose 30 pounds, right? And I feel like I'm not making a lot of progress, which, you know, the way to deal with that, right, is to break that 30-pound goal down into lots of little goals. Like, okay, I'm not going to be like You know, that feels so far off. Like, can I focus on, on, on small goals within there? So there's lots of different ways to work with it. But the most important thing is to start to understand what is it that is causing you to stop, you know, analyze your own pattern because it's going to be different from person to person. But that first one that I used is, in my experience, probably the most common one, which is that circumstance gets in the way.

Yeah, I think a lot of people who are listening could identify with that. You know, they're either struggling with some kind of self-sabotage. They take one step forward and maybe two steps back, or, you know, when they start making progress, or maybe it's a procrastination issue. For the model that our community is very familiar with, our Limitless model, it's these 3 levers. It's the— it's our mindset, our motivation, or the methods. It's our— it's our wit, our will, or the way.

Yeah.

And those are things that we could always— we have some influence on.

Yeah, yeah, I loved that about your work is I, you know, I think that is a very good summary kind of, of, of those things. And, you know, you kind of have to get all of those worked out. You know, one of the things that I often do with people is we really start with the method.

Hmm.

Like, let's get your methods figured out. Let's get a plan. Let's understand what your life is and the challenges of your life and the things that are gonna get in the way. Let's get that kind of nailed down and then We start to then be able to look more closely at the other 2 levers, you know, because a lot of times method will take us along, along, will take us a big part of the way there. It's a method thing, right? And that gets us out of the moral judgment of I'm a failure. It's just like, oh, I haven't figured out the puzzle yet. And that's what I like about your model, right? And I think it's just important with behavior change in general is to think of it as a puzzle, not as a failing. Right? Because when we think of it as a failing, we get really down on ourselves, right? It affects the mindset that you're talking about. So, like, let's approach it as a puzzle, you know? And I know that's a part of your overall framework too, right? But a lot about curiosity and, you know, like, and so I think that's a really important way is like, you know, and I always would encourage coaching clients, like, don't get discouraged. We just haven't figured out the puzzle yet. Like, we got some of the pieces. Let's keep working. There is an answer here. And I think that's important because it gets to the mindset of, you know, and gets to, you know, the motivation, right? The motivation is driven by feeling better.

We've been telling people for a couple of decades now, when the power of choice and people don't realize how many choices they can actually make to get them closer to their goals. At a fundamental level, I believe people could make 4 choices for change. They could either start something, they could stop something, they could do more of something, or they could do less of something. So people really want to win. this year, which a lot of our listeners obviously do. That's why they subscribe. They listen to my podcast and yours. They want to either start something, they want to stop something, they want to do more of something and do less. And that's why I wanted to have Eric, everyone on this conversation to give me a new perspective on behavioral change. Because ultimately everything comes down to behavioral change, right?

Yes.

We can do all the inner work, but our external world won't reflect that unless we interact with it and we change, you know, what we're doing. The methods. And so this is such a timely conversation. Going back to the parable of the one you feed, you could either feed and nourish the things that are good for you and surround yourself with support and do the good things. And also, you could also spend— you could starve those areas that are holding us back, right? And then so that they won't be as strong to be able to face all that You know, all the good and what we're nourishing at the same time.

Yeah. And I think figuring out sometimes, particularly if you want to talk about addiction, right? One of the things that people have to spend some amount of time figuring out is, you know, can I do less of it or do I have to stop it?

Right.

And that figuring that out for many people takes a long time, right? Because we all would prefer if it's something that's addictive, we like doing it. We would prefer to do less of it. That would be the preference, right? If I could do less drinking or if I could do less drugs, that's what I would have chosen.

People have their addictions for, you know, they could be food.

Yeah.

They could be binge-watching things. Yeah. They're addicted to, or they're addicted to their devices, or they're even addicted to things that are actually glorified in this society, like work.

Yep.

You know, we don't see that as an addiction, but it probably mirrors, you know, for me, it would be studying. Functionally, something that's addicting is something that maybe is not empowering in your life, and it's very difficult to stop.

Yeah, no, I think my relationship with work has had flavors of the addictive to it for sure in the past. And there were years where I was like, you know what? It's better than doing heroin, so I'm just going to run with this. Right. But it still has consequences. Right. It still has consequences of anything that we're doing that we're not fully examining the cost-benefit ratio to, and we're not like, if we say we're going to do less of something and we're not doing it, right, then we may need to end up like examining that closely. I interviewed a guy the other day. He's got a podcast called Recovery Elevator. And he's like, I have the simplest diagnostic test for alcohol of them all. And it was basically like, do you wonder whether you have a problem with alcohol? In his mind, if you spend a lot of time wondering about that question, You have your answer, right? Because most people do not. The vast majority of people are not like, do I have a, do I have a problem with alcohol? Now, I don't think it's quite that clear, actually. I mean, I don't believe that's always the case, but it's a good indicator. You know, if you keep over and over saying to yourself, I need to not do that. I need to not do that. I need to do less of that. I need to do less of that. And you don't. That's a good sign that there's a problem. And to me, addiction ultimately is about loss of control. That's really, you can call it lots of different things, but it's about, I am unable to change this behavior.

Yeah.

Despite consequence over and over.

So in terms of final advice for people who are listening, besides we talked about self-awareness, because in order to make any kind of change, you need to be aware, you know, of that the change needs to take place. So your current reality, in addition, your environment in terms of the people, Yeah. To help you because nobody's an island and it takes a village. Is there a third thing that we could recommend to our listeners who maybe are struggling with some of these, whether it's breaking addictive patterns or unhealthy behaviors or adding something brand new to their life or doing more of something like a good kind of would fall underneath your fundamental or key principles? Or processes?

I don't know if I would— I don't know if I'd call it a key principle, but I think it's a great last thing to end on, which is that, like, you know, in AA, we used to say all the time, keep coming back.

Yeah. Right.

And now that doesn't necessarily mean, like, I don't mean that to mean, like, you have to keep coming back to a 12-step program. But the message is keep trying. Keep trying. Like, there are ways to change behavior. We can do it. It's hard, but lots of people do do it. You know, I mean, again, we know most people don't do it, but lots and lots of people do. And you can probably look at your own life and be like, oh, well, I have changed some things for sure, right? So the message I would say to end with is don't give up and don't get discouraged. Like, keep, keep trying because there is a path and a way there. You just may have to find out what it is for you. And that might be slightly different, you know, for everybody.

I think it's very difficult to To stop somebody who knows where they're going and also why they're going there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, if clarity of why this is important to me, you know, reflecting on what, you know, what is this behavior that I'm not doing or the behavior that I am doing? What is it? What is it costing me in my life in things that actually matter to me? You know, like there was a period of time early in my addiction where all sorts of things my addiction cost me all sorts of things. Like, I didn't go to college, I lost my driver's license, I couldn't drive. I mean, I had all these other things, but you know what? None of them really mattered to me.

Hmm.

It was when something that I loved, that music started to really get impacted, was the first real time that I went, oh, wait.

You know?

And so it's reflecting on what matters to me and what is being— you know, in what ways is that being affected by either To use your model, stopping doing something, starting something else, doing more or doing less. How does that affect the things that really matter to me? That reflection is always key because we don't know why we're doing it. We're not going to stick with it. I mean, that's a pretty straightforward principle.

Outstanding. To everyone listening, we're having a conversation right now with Eric Zimmer. He's a behavioral coach. He spent the past couple of decades guiding people through significant life changes. By helping them create new behaviors and habits that align really with the core of who they are. Eric, how do people— how can people find out more about your work?

Yeah, well, you can listen to the podcast, The One You Feed. You can find it anywhere you get podcasts. You could also go to our website. It's One You Feed. It's all spelled out, oneyoufeed.net, and you can find more about everything we do there also.

Fantastic. We'll put links in our show notes as we always do, including a link to my episode where I was a guest on The One You Feed in the show notes.

Great episode.

At jimkwik.com/notes. And also, we'll also include Eric's social media. So make sure you follow him there. And Eric, thank you so much for being on the Kwik Brain Podcast.

Thanks so much for having me on, Jim. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you everybody who spent time listening or watching. Highly recommend you subscribe Subscribe on YouTube where we put the extended version of these conversations. All the audio platforms we keep to 20 minutes because it's called Kwik with no sponsors, just because we want to be able to get you this information, democratize this. If you want great examples of people who have overcome limiting behaviors, check out Eric's podcast because obviously you're listening to this. This will be right up your alley. And The best thing I could ask everybody to do is just 2 things, is to share this episode with somebody, just one person, a friend or family member who you think, wow, they really need to hear this right now. Forward this to them or post it. Make sure you tag Eric, tag myself so we get to see it. And then also the biggest gift you could give us is a review because your stories matter and will inspire other people to make these positive transformations and behavioral changes. And so, Eric, thank you so much. And thank you everyone who's listening. And until our next episode, be limitless. Be limitless.