Turn Anxiety into Your Superpower with Dr. Wendy Suzuki & Jim Kwik

Welcome back, Kwik Brain. Your question for today is, how do you turn anxiety into your superpower? A lot of people would say that this has been a very recent, recent stressful times. And we know that constant stress could reduce and actually shrink the human brain. So how do you cope with anxiety? How do you transform anxiety into a gift, into a real superpower? And have this conversation with you today, I'm really excited to introduce Dr. Wendy Suzuki. She's a professor of neuroscience and psychology at NYU. And she's the author of a brand new book, Good Anxiety. Welcome to the show, Wendy.

Thank you so much, Jim. It's so great to be here.

This is a long time coming. You and I had met a couple of years back at an event. It seems like a little bit more than a minute, almost a lifetime ago. And the event was a brain health event put on by our friend, Maria Shriver.

Maria Shriver, yeah.

Yeah, so I'm glad you could make time to be on our show and talk about your brand new book.

Yes.

Most people, they hear the word anxiety and they just, they don't look at it as a gift. They don't look at it as a superpower. But I would imagine in your, have you seen anxiety, especially the past year and a half? Have you seen it rise?

Oh, absolutely. And in fact, this whole book, the first draft was written before the beginning of the pandemic. At that time, the stats were 90% of Americans raised their hands and said, I experience anxiety every day. 90% before the beginning of the pandemic. So just imagine what that number has become now.

Right.

So basically everybody, everybody has anxiety. So it's, it's the topic that we need to address.

So I was, when I was reading your book, I, you know, a lot of this information, I was, I was amazed because you talk how anxiety was actually, is actually a protection mechanism. Absolutely. It's there to serve us.

It's there to serve us. People don't realize that. And that is the whole starting point of the book. Evolutionarily, Anxiety and that underlying physiological stress response evolved to protect us from the dangers out there, the lions, the tigers, and bears that were coming at us 2.5 million years ago. It is essentially essential for our survival. And I know everybody's thinking, I'm not feeling protected by my anxiety. What are you talking about? And the answer is that we're not. And that's okay that you're not because the volume of our anxiety is turned up way too high for all of us. And too much of anything, even a good thing, is bad. So the first section, and in fact, a whole chunk of the book, is about how the first step is just to turn that volume down so that we can get back to that protective aspect that gives us gifts, that gives us superpowers.

Now you're also an authority on one of our favorite subjects that we talk about on our show and in our book is on neuroplasticity.

Yes.

Right? This incredible ability For our brains to be able to adapt to experiences. Now, how does that, how does that relate to anxiety?

Yeah, it is so incredibly important to anxiety because one of the most important tools to be able to turn that volume down is to be able to shift your mindset about how you're approaching anxiety. That is a form of learning. That is a form of brain plasticity. It's very evolutionarily beneficial. And the thing is that this is one example of how it can be a gift. Those of us with anxiety, with lots of anxiety-provoking situations coming at us all the time, we have this opportunity to be able to practice mindset shifting to address all of these different problems. And we learn that the more we do it, the better we become. And that skill is then can then be adapted to all aspects of our lives. And the more adaptable we are, the better we're able to just kind of live a better life. So it does become a gift because we have all these opportunities to test it out.

So in a way we could become more fit emotionally. So how do you, if somebody is going through a difficult time right now, maybe a time of uncertainty where they feel like they, They're maybe watching the news and it's threatening and it's dark and it's scary, puts them in that fight or flight. What would you say the first step would be in order for them to flip, you know, anxiety from, from going from something, something negative to something that's empowering?

Yeah, great question. The first step for everybody is to learn and practice techniques that turn that volume down. And the number one approach to turning that volume down is to activate your stress reduction part of your nervous system. This is my big message. Everybody knows about fight or flight, right? The sympathetic nervous system is another word for that fight or flight system. Did you know that we have a de-stressing part of our nervous system called the parasympathetic nervous system?

Mm-hmm.

And everybody should be thinking, how do I activate that? I need more of that nervous system to be activated. And the best way to consciously activate that system is to deep breathe deeply and slowly.

Hmm.

It's not a surprise that deep breathing is one of the oldest forms of meditation in history. Monks long ago, they didn't know anything about the nervous system, but they knew that that could bring us down into calmness. Did they know they were activating the parasympathetic nervous system? No, but, uh, it's very, very powerful. And, um, It also starts us on a practice that's so helpful for anxiety, which is appreciating the present moment. And there's no better way to do that than to focus on your breath and to appreciate, I have breath going through my lungs and that I could just enjoy this moment right now. Nothing is happening. I have a calmness to me. And so that is why just practicing simple, deep breathing is my number one go-to.

And this is a long-lasting, you know, active coping response. When you're breathing, you know, it helps you, I would imagine, with building resilience.

Absolutely, it does. I love it because so many people say, you know, I'm not only dealing with my own anxiety, I'm dealing with the anxiety of my kids and their schools and masks and no masks. And the thing about breathing is that you can practice it together as a family, and you can send your kids off to school with that practice that, you know, you get a little stressed out, just, just breathe deeply. And for you, the adult, I love the fact that you can practice this in the middle of an anxiety-provoking conversation. That anxiety provoker is talking away and you are just breathing deeply. You are already calming yourself down and you're helping yourself kind of get that. Why is this helpful? It's helpful because calming yourself down can help your prefrontal cortex work better. You get too much fight or flight stress response going. And your prefrontal cortex shuts down. You need that in an anxiety-provoking conversation because that is your decision maker that helps you make your arguments. So you want to do everything you can to really enhance and get that prefrontal cortex working well.

So it's kind of like our survival brain is kicking in and holding us hostage away from that prefrontal cortex that allows us to be able to make good decisions, you know, our executive mind. How would you, when you're How about your breathing? I'm just curious. Deep breathing. Are you doing a specific ratio or does that matter?

So, you know, I think that there's so many different kinds out there. I send people to YouTube, just go and find your favorite 2-minute video and pick the one that has more than 1 million views and you're bound to find something good. But the one that I practice and I recommend is a 4-part box breathing. So it's an inhale on a 4-count, Hold it at the top for 4 counts, exhale for 4 counts, and hold it at the bottom for 4 counts. It's easy to remember. It's a box of 4. And, and, you know, there are lots of others that go into, you know, 16 counts and you're holding your breath. But this one is nice and easy. And I can tell you, I've done it with so many groups around the country. And you can see, you can see in the comments that they feel this immediate relief.

Even, even you talking about, I was, I was kind of going through the, the box breathing and instantly, and the parasympathetic, that's where we feel safe. It's where our system goes into like, is it rest and digest?

Exactly. That is the rest and digest system. So there's many more things happening. That system does stimulate kind of deep breathing, but it also decreases your heart rate. It shunts blood from your muscles to your digestion and reproductive organs. So that is why it's like kind of the weekend system, the long Sunday brunch system, so you can digest all of that. But there is this nervous system dedicated— it evolved in parallel with the fight or flight because we're fighting and flighting and running away. We need something to calm us down. This is the part of our nervous system that was evolved specifically to do just that.

And that kind of makes sense, right? Like, as you were saying, if someone's in fight or flight, the blood is going to flow to the, you know, your external, like your muscles, to be able to defend yourself or to be able to run away. And it takes that energy away from the things that are not critical. And yes, your immune system, your digestion, not, not in the moment, right? But over time, that chronic anxiety or stress could really wear on somebody.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Very nice.

My favorite line from Robert Sapolsky, a very well-known stress researcher, is, when you're running away from a lion, you don't have time to ovulate.

Just making that up.

Makes sense.

Completely makes sense. Now, speaking of that, your other work, which I really appreciated, also talked about in the classes that you do, power of movement.

Yes.

Is that, is that one of the ways to be able to utilize anxiety and channel that? Absolutely.

Yeah.

That is also a very, very powerful tool to modulate your mood state. And we have lots of data that I was able to gather over the pandemic virtually showing that even a single exercise session can significantly decrease anxiety, depression, and hostility levels in just Normal, normal adults. And we use 30 minutes of workout, but even a single walk. So everybody wants to know what is that minimum amount that you really need to get that mood effect? And it's 10 minutes, 10 minutes of a walk, power walk. It's really not that much. You don't even need to change your clothes and you're starting to get this. And you might ask, why is this so powerful? Well, it's powerful because every single time we move our bodies, moving our muscles literally stimulates the release of a wide range of neurochemicals in the brain. And those neurochemicals you've heard of, dopamine, serotonin, noradrenaline.

Yes.

You are, you are giving your brain this wonderful bubble bath of neurochemicals that make you feel happy, rewarded, feel good. That's also another very powerful one.

Bubble bath of neurochemicals. I love that. As people are getting their dopamine, their serotonin, they're getting the oxytocin, their endorphins, they're creating brain-derived neurotrophic factors.

Yes.

Which is wonderful for your brain plasticity and health. Is there a third thing that you go to besides breath and movement that you would suggest that would be high in terms of I like the way you address like minimum effective dose, you know, at least 10 minutes. And also you're getting fresh air, you're getting hopefully sunlight also as well.

Absolutely. Yeah. So those are my top 2. They're my top 2 because there's so much science backing what's happening, why it's happening. There are many other things that can be effective. And the whole last part of my book is called How to Worry Well. And it's a whole toolbox. of things that we know, some science-based, some not science-based, but, you know, we haven't studied as much the effect of laughter, for example, on decreasing anxiety.

Right.

Do you think laughter helps decrease anxiety? Absolutely. So one of the tools in the toolbox is simply call your funniest friend. I have a hilarious friend. She lives in LA. If I need a boost, I call her. Um, so lots of tools like that, including all the mindset, um, the mindset shifts. Oh, but actually, if we're talking about tools, I would love to share with your listeners my favorite tool in the toolbox, which is a tool that I invented while I wrote this book. It's called joy conditioning. Joy conditioning.

Conditioning.

And it, yes. And it is a, a tool that I created to directly counteract Fear conditioning that happens to all of us. Uh, it is, uh, fear conditioning is the situation where, you know, I was, uh, my apartment was robbed when I lived in, in Washington, DC. And, uh, I remember walking around the corner and seeing my door crowbarred in. Well, months and months and years later, every time I walked around that same corner, I would remember that, that fear.

Mm-hmm.

It's like, am I gonna see, you know, my door crowbarred in? That's fear conditioning. It happens automatically. It's very hard to get rid of. It did go down, but, but, you know, you carry this because again, it's protective just in case, you know, I wanna protect myself from possible robbers. But I thought that's just so depressing. We're just accumulating all this fear conditioning. Why don't we come up with joy conditioning? Joy conditioning doesn't happen automatically, but the good news is we have conscious control, and it works like this. I invite you all to mentally go through all of your most wonderful, funny, joyful, juicy, lovely memories in your life. We don't think about all these wonderful things that have happened to us enough. Find one that has an olfactory olfactory odor, a smell associated, a good smell associated with it. Why? Because we know that smells can be very strongly evoking of a memory. And all you need to do is get that smell, revivify that memory by thinking about it, reliving that wonderful moment, that big laugh with your family, that big laugh with your husband, with your wife. And we know that the way that that memory system in the work— in the brain works is that the more you do it, the more you repeat it, the stronger it gets. So every repetition will strengthen not just the memory of what happened, but those emotions that came with it. And so that is one of my favorite tools from the book, joy conditioning.

Joy conditioning. I love that. And so that's so practical. And so when would you recommend our listeners employ joy conditioning? Is this, are they doing it in a specific time? day, or when they're starting to feel higher levels of anxiety or stress? Or is it a training tool like working out?

Yeah, I think it's a training tool like working out. The way that I use it isn't— I don't use this tool like I use deep breathing and working and moving my body when I'm feeling anxiety come on. I just want to quell the anxiety. I like to do it in the weekends, in the mornings, also right before I go to sleep. Like, what better thing to go to sleep to than your most joyful, beautiful memories of what has happened in your life? So it's like building up, filling up your chalice of joy whenever you get a chance, so that you, you know, overall, you're going to change your baseline state. And that's the idea behind.

And you could do all of what I like about what you're talking about, whether it's deep diaphragmatic breathing, whether it is also movement, or whether it's joy conditioning, you could do this with your team, you could do this with your friends, you could do this with your children, your family, also have them talk about their joys. Because, you know, a lot of times we're talking about, you know, a lot of times we're talking and we're complaining. Yeah, you know, we're venting. So at the very least, it'd be nice to be able to balance that out.

It is. It is. It's a really good practice. I love that idea of doing it with my team. In fact, I'm gonna do that at my next lab meeting. We're all gonna do a little session of personal joy conditioning. So thanks for that idea.

No, I love that. Even with our, with our team, we'll jump on, on a Zoom halfway through and we'll do these little like physical exercises. I think, you know, as your body moves, your brain grooves, or we do some breathing together. And it's, we could bring mindfulness into anything just as a reminder. It doesn't, it has to be isolated when someone's meditating, you can be more mindful when you're eating. A lot of people are so, they're not in parasympathetic when they're eating, 'cause they're checking emails and Slack and everything. So it's not even just what you're eating, it's also how you're eating it also as well. And I like that idea of doing joy conditioning when you go to sleep, because I would imagine when you're thinking about things that you're grateful for and it makes you laugh, then you feel safe.

Yeah.

Right? And human beings need to feel a level of safety to also get into that parasympathetic rest, digest mode. I don't have to flee. I don't have to freeze or fight.

Yeah.

Yeah. I would imagine it'd be really great for people to mentally rehearse it, see it like a film in a theater in their mind's eye. But also even writing those things down, having a gratitude journal or a joy journal whenever you are— some people fill up— we used to have in the office when we were going to offer office, like a little fishbowl and people would put the things that they're thankful for in there.

Nice.

And then they could always just pull it out to be able to change their frame of reference.

Yeah.

You know, this is—

sorry, I was going to say one of the things that helped me in my sleep. So that was one of the things I worked on very explicitly during the lockdown is can I get my sleep pattern really strong? Because it was, you know, not so great before. And, and I found myself using Audible but not reading new things. I used it as like a bedtime story, so my favorite stories. And from your kind of inspiration, I realized maybe you could create your own personal bedtime story with these most joyful memories that you have. So it's not a fairy tale anymore. It is, you know, it is a— Rehearsing of your own history, but the most joyful moments right before you go into bed. And yeah, I like that.

I like that because we are authoring, you know, every single day is a new chapter. We get to be the superhero in our own hero's journey and, and turn anxiety into a superpower. You know, it could be another tool. It's not, you know, it's good or bad. It's just, it's, it's, it's there to be able to serve us and protect us. But like anything, you know, technology, It could be that fire could cook your food. It could also burn down your home. It's just really how it's utilized.

Exactly.

Amazing, Wendy. I recommend everybody goes get a copy of Good Anxiety, highly recommend it. We have a one book a week club where many of our listeners do 52 books a year. So I highly recommend everyone add this to your list and also take a screenshot of wherever you're listening to this and tag, post it online and tag Wendy, tag myself so we get to see it. Wendy, where are you most active on social?

Instagram, very active on Instagram. But if you want to find out more about me and the book, you can go to either goodanxiety.com or wendysuzuki.com.

And we'll, as always, put those links in the show notes as well as to your previous work also as well, to some of your amazing talks so people can go deeper there also. And make sure you tag us when you post it. And let's ask them to to post something, maybe a challenge or a question, what would you recommend as they're taking a screenshot of this? And I'll hold your book up here also as well. When they're taking a screenshot in the post, what would you like them to— what are you asking them? Maybe we could ask them a question based on breathing or movement or joy also as well.

I would love to know your joy conditioning memory. Just a little, little, little tagline. What is the subject of your joy conditioning memory?

Yeah, share your— get in the habit of sharing our joys. Yeah, you know, I think that it'll help to really— that part of our brain that reticular activates it to be able to make us consciously aware of things that we're grateful for, and we feel like we're safe and that we're enough. So post that, tag us so we get to see it. I'll repost some of my favorites, and I'll actually gift one copy of Good Anxiety to one of our listeners just as a thank you for, for playing along. And I highly recommend also, we always put the extended version of our Kwik Brain podcast on YouTube. So please watch it there also as well.

No, Jim, I'm going to add a book. So I'm going to give one book too. So 2 of your readers can get a free copy of Good Anxiety.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Wendy. And thank you for the gift of this book and also all your research and your work. And we'll have to have you back on the show soon.

Love to. Love to.

Hi, Kwik Brain.

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