Why You Sleep Enough Hours but Still Wake Up Tired

They're really focused on their sleep hygiene, but not their sleep environment. And they're really— the two go together. That sleep environment is critical 'cause those are the stimulants that accelerate your central nervous system rather than slow it down. The deep sleep cycles are the game changers for cognitive health, physical health, physical recovery. It all happens in deep sleep and REM sleep. I could be sleeping for 8 hours, but if I've only had 2 hours or 1.5 hours of REM and deep sleep, that's not nearly enough. The difference between the best athlete and the second best athlete usually happens Welcome back to the Kwik Brain Podcast.

I am your host and your brain coach, Jim Kwik. Do you have challenges getting a good night's sleep, and how is your brain going through that? How is it performing? And so, in this episode, we, by request, we have a lot of people who say that even they had a good night's sleep, or not a good night's sleep, they had 8 hours of sleep, but their brain's still not functioning. It's as if they are at a sleep deficit. And so, we're gonna go through strategies on how— practical things you could do to get better sleep so that you could learn better, so you could focus the next day, so you could study, have more mental energy, and so much more. Our guest is actually back. We have done a podcast episode, which we will link in the show notes at jimkwik.com/notes, and it was on sleeping like a pro. His name is Jack D'Alessio. He's the CEO of Essentia Mattress, We are live at our Limitless Live Conference in San Diego. Welcome, Jack.

Thank you. Great to be here.

So I want to talk about cognitive performance, cognitive health, and sleep. And you've been in this industry for a couple decades?

Yeah, 21 years.

21 years.

21 years as Essentia, a few years before that in the development of the materials themselves, but 25 for me personally.

All right, so why don't we go just maybe a couple minutes on your origin story? I always find it interesting how people, get on a certain path? Like for me, brain injury, grandmother had Alzheimer's, I had learning challenges, and, you know, my inspiration was my desperation and also my mission. What was yours?

For mine, it was back then, I've always been a little entrepreneurial, and I kind of tend to make my personal life my business life as well, kind of becomes a little more harmonious that way. But 26 years ago, my dad was diagnosed with cancer, And, through his challenges and battles, he was really very sensitized to chemicals. So, in learning about cleaning his sleep environment, his indoor environment, we were just realizing what was getting reactions. On the other hand, switching to organic had other issues as pain management and allergens. So, there's always some type of triggers. We're learning from these triggers. And then that point when you're faced with these challenges, you're also exploring all kinds of solutions. So you become open to— your mind opens up to potential alternatives. My entrepreneurial side says, well, why doesn't a better product exist? So I spent 3.5 years looking at how we can change the behavior of latex foam, which is an organic material, but how do we shift and make that a performance-based foam, better pressure redistribution, better posture support. 3.5 years later, developed that product and launched the company Essentia.

Okay. And it's interesting how people struggle to come up— like, for me, I had my challenges with learning, and I researched it for a very long time, and then it worked for me, but then I couldn't help— I was actually upset. I was like, why wasn't I taught this back, you know, in school and such? And I want to help other people who are suffering the way I did.

Right.

And it's interesting that you go through a challenge and it leads to some positive change where you're helping so many people now because of that challenge. So similar to, like, last night, Amy inspiring other people with her adversity as well. So what's the myth here? Because why are people waking up? Is it the environment that's stimulating them, that's kind of shocking them in a way that They wake up and some people, they have trouble falling asleep, some people have trouble staying asleep, or they'll wake up a few times, maybe it's not even to use the bathroom. What have you found over the past 20 years?

Interesting, you know, taking the approach of people who are consciously making an effort to do better, because obviously there's the masses that are not even paying attention to their sleep, but those who are making a real effort. What's taking them off course is they're really focused on their sleep hygiene, but not their sleep environment. And really the two go together. It's great to have a routine, start and stop at the same time, you know, different types of triggers that help you with the onset, trigger the mind for the onset of sleep, but the sleep environment is just as critical as that, 'cause that's where the stimulants come from.

And, like, if let's say the average person sleeps 8 hours, that's a third of your day that you're in that environment, right? Right, and so that's something that— how many of you create some kind of sleep ritual or sanctuary? Interesting.

Yeah, and so that sleep environment is critical, because those are the stimulants that trigger, accelerate your central nervous system rather than slow it down. And it could be the toxins, it could be heat, your stimulant, it could be EMFs in the environment, it could be allergens, these are, you know, it could be pain points. The most common people recognize is pain. And, that's when they think they need to change mattress. But, there's way beyond pain management when it comes to the stimulants. And, I think one of the primary one is obviously the toxins because if you're breathing in those toxins, your central nervous system is not at rest. Thermoregulation is the big myth out there. People think they need to just drop the temperature of the room. It goes way beyond that because being cool or refrigerating yourself either through just the room setting, that's great for the onset of sleep. But to truly get your central nervous system constantly on a slowdown to push the limits of REM sleep and deep sleep, it's something that has to happen over the whole course of sleep, the 6 to 8 hours. As soon as you're picking up in temperature, that central nervous system is accelerating, and we see in our sleep studies, that's when you tend to wake up. You stay longer in the light sleep cycles than the deep sleep cycles. The deep sleep cycles are the game changers for cognitive health, physical health, physical recovery, it all happens in deep sleep and REM sleep. So our obsession is how do we keep you there longer?

Yeah.

And it's that elimination of all these stimulants. The common thing that most people are looking for, because they hear that sleeping cool is a game changer, and it is a game changer, but it's not through mechanical or chemical refrigeration systems. It has to happen organically. Your body, every— Our needs change every single night. If I have a very active day, I'll need to expel a lot of heat that night. If I have a lot of red meat, I'll need to expel a lot of heat that night. But if I've meditated all day, I won't have the same needs. Same thing happens at different points in your life. Women, at a certain point, need to expel more heat. Other parts of their lives, they're looking to retain heat. So it's not a one— that fits all. So what we really worked on is the formulation of our organic material just to be able to have that heat expelled from your body. And so 2 partners side by side on the same mattress with 2 completely different needs are both getting the thermoregulation that's needed. And that's where we see how we move the needle in REM sleep and deep sleep.

So that's one stimulus that could wake you up is temperature. Maybe we could talk about the other ones that are big needle movers that could really affect everyone who's listening, their sleep quality.

I'd say number 1 is toxins, number 2 is temperature. Those are the things that really move the needle on your central nervous system.

These are toxins, we won't mention brands, but you go to a department store, you have something shipped with an 800 number or whatever.

Yes.

What kind of toxins? Why do they even use it?

Well, that's basically the least expensive form of foam, and it's pretty much what's used over 90% of the time. You're getting polyurethane foams. And also the way that mattresses are made, in order to make them somewhat comfortable, the lowest density is on top, followed by these high-density foams that have high-density off-gassing, and the majority of people are buying springs and coil systems, which Again, don't have the durability, don't have the support needs, but also kind of become attractions for EMFs as well. To shift back to toxins, that is the most economical material out there. So, those polyurethane foams is what's used pretty much everywhere, polyester batting, polyester covers. So, all that system are just triggers for your central nervous system. Okay.

This— well, my mind is staying on that, the springs inside of the mattress being metal.

Yes.

Could be an attractor point for EMFs?

It basically is an extension creating your body into an antenna. So it's interesting because what we've looked at as a solution is an informed quartz solution in the foam, and that's where we really get into the nitty-gritty of obsessing on every little element. But, what we've been able to identify, and we work with institutional customers, so everything has to be evidence-based. So, what we've been able to identify is that the blood cell behavior during EMF transmissions like phone calls, downloads, there's a lot of clustering going on, a lot of Rouleaux effect, which is called, which stops oxygen from flowing as freely through your blood. That's something that happens with EMFs. And, more so with coils because that's creating an antenna effect. And so, you're constantly getting everything flowing through your body through these beds. By basically changing that around, not having coil systems in place, having informed quartz as part of our latex formula, it becomes the dominant wave in the room. So, transmissions can come in. You can still stay on phone calls, you can do your downloads, but— These signals through your phones do not have to be erratic and just coming from everywhere. They can come in in an organic wave. They'll still communicate and transmit. However, it doesn't affect your bloodstream. And, we've been able to showcase that through blood work where with this informed quartz, you get zero effect on your bloodstream.

How many stimulants are waking us up if you were to Put a number to it. I mean, with the toxins, the potential EMFs.

We identify 8 toxins, EMFs, mold, which is— mold is a big issue. Until I started exploring this, reached out by the military to look into mold issue in barracks, and I thought I was really just looking into something for the military, to be honest with you, and then I discovered that I think it's 25% of American homes have mold issues. Not everyone recognizes that they have that problem, but mold spores will just attach to everything and exponentially grow. That's one of the things that we've been able to overcome at Essentia as well. Pain points is the one that most people know about. You know, once you're getting neck pain, back pain, shoulder pain, that's when you— time to change your mattress. That's the obvious one. Thermoregulation, which is the—

Mm-hmm.

body temperature and that body temperature management that has to happen through the 8 hours. Blood flow, not just from the EMF but from that proper support and proper oxygenation from the bed. So, when you're making any movements in bed, it's important that that blood flow is not blocked because anytime you're putting any type of obstruction, it kind of wakes you up.

Mm-hmm.

Even though most people think that they can log in 7 to 8 hours, the beauty of today's age is that most people are wearing wearables, and they're able to identify that, hey, I could be sleeping for 8 hours, but if I've only had 2 hours or 1.5 hours of REM and deep sleep, that's not nearly enough. And by eliminating these stimulants, it takes that number substantially higher. We typically see people converting to 3, 3.5 hours, sometimes more in REM sleep and deep sleep. You actually don't need 8 hours As long as you're logging in that time.

So it's not the amount of sleep, it's the quality of the deep sleep.

We have athletes that manage to only log in 5.5 hours of sleep with about 3.5 hours of REM and deep sleep, and they feel like a million bucks.

And then what's going on physiologically that could affect our cognitive health or performance in REM and/or deep?

Well, that's really an interesting thing. One of the— about 2 years ago, we did a full study with 75 professional athletes, right? Our goal was to identify the impacts of eliminating these stimulants and how we can extend REM sleep and deep sleep. We had through the roof for success. We identified between 20% and 60% increase in REM sleep and deep sleep. There's a whole other side of that study that we didn't really talk about as much because it was subjective. All the players answered a questionnaire. So now those questions were really related to happiness, focus.

Hmm.

Basically, an overwhelming amount of the participants that were increasing REM sleep and deep sleep, they reported much more happiness, better focus, absorbing the lessons of the day and the plays a lot more in ease, less stress, less anxiety. So there's so much that happens through improve sleep, it's actually incredible. It's the foundation to everything you want to achieve.

Okay, so if somebody was going to ask you, friend, family member, what are the 3 most important things to optimize your sleep, being a sleep researcher and expert, what would your— what's your go-to?

Well, the main thing when it's family and friends, they first question, Jack, you really know this stuff? Because they knew me growing up, right?

It's hard to be a prophet in your own hometown.

Exactly.

I've experienced the same thing.

I'm going to embarrass myself. But, ultimately, we've done all that thinking at Essentia to eliminate it, but I go in that order. And, number 1 is detoxify the room. So, that's the priority number 1. So, if you're going to be limited to what you're going to have, the toxins is number 1. Number 2 is trying to manage some level of thermoregulation is the number 2. Really try. If you can't have a product that is so porous as ours that allows for that naturally to happen, well, then you'll have to kind of chase it a little bit more with room temperature, with using natural sheets, breathable sheets. So as much of that possible is the thermal regulation would be the number 2 part. Number 3 is mitigating EMFs because we really see that as—

It's just like turning off Wi-Fi routers at night. Exactly.

So if you can't have a component like our quartz that mitigates the impacts of it, well, then you've got to shut it all down and make sure that you don't have any streaming in the bedroom, any phone calls in the bedroom. You still have the signals of Wi-Fi that are everywhere, right? The data signals are everywhere. But, the less instruments you have in the room, the less impactful they are because they're not pulling them into the bedroom. Definitely, anybody that speaks to me, they never sleep on coils.

We use one of those timers, outlet timers that just automatically shuts off at a certain time and turns back on.

Yep.

It just makes it easy. Just anything I could do in my life that just automates, I don't have to think about it, right? So you don't have to struggle with decision fatigue. You don't wanna waste all those good decisions. Just remember to do that when you need to be focusing on something else.

That's a great tool, actually.

It's inexpensive. Yeah.

And it makes a lot of sense, and it keeps you disciplined for That, you know, balancing sleep hygiene and sleep environment, that those two really go together well.

Well, a lot of people also on their digital devices, just a reminder. Nobody in this room, of course, because you know so much, they're not on your devices first thing in the morning or definitely not late at night, because it's not just the blue light that's fooling your brain into thinking it's still daylight, so you're not creating melatonin and so on, it's the stimulus. Like, nobody would invite 100 strangers into your room at night to talk about whatever they want to talk about, or first thing in the morning, right? But it's like, I feel like I'm doing that, and that's very stimulating, especially depending on the algorithm and what's being presented to you.

That's right, exactly. It's actually pretty incredible. That's a great hack of automating and allowing that system to take place that way. But that's been a lot of the consulting I've been doing, a lot of the coaching. has really been to focus people on their environment so much more in their routines. The brain is really something that is— if you can set a routine and stick to that routine, your mind will anticipate that.

Mm-hmm.

So if you're doing the same thing every night, it will expect that. If you're going to change your schedule every night, your mind will not be able to predict will not be able to anticipate. So if you're in bed at 10 o'clock every single night, by 9 PM, your brain is signaling it's time to wind down. Those are all hygiene, sleep hygiene, which is great for the onset of sleep, but it's your sleep environment that's going to take you past the line on REM sleep and deep sleep.

You know, I see all these interviews all the time. It's been my personal experience, whether these are executives or they're world leaders that say, you know, the biggest advice that they give is don't make a decision, important decision, on a bad night's sleep, right?

Mm-hmm.

And just a bad night's sleep impairs every physiological function. You know this, right? Especially, you know, at this event, you wanna stay up late, you wanna see certain people, and you throw off your clock and how you're thinking the next day, how's your focus the next day. So sleep is really the, probably the most, I don't know. I would say if there's one, that's up there for sure.

When I started 20 years ago, and I would be consulting with some people, specifically athletes, it was interesting where they thought that the most important thing that they needed to do was in their training, followed by nutrition, followed by rest and recovery. Today, that's been flipped, and most health professionals in athletics and pro athletics will know that The difference, the game changer, is in their rest and recovery. The training is automatic. It's as if we've been running this as if we're adolescents. And, you know, teenagers just think about working hard and training hard when they want to be really good at a sport. But the difference between the best athlete and the second-best athlete usually happens in recovery.

Mm-hmm.

And you look at the sleep hygiene and sleep environment of the top 10 performing athletes, and the difference between the next 10 is all in their recovery. The better they recover, the better they train, the better they perform mentally and physically.

We had Dr. Gabrielle Lyon here at Limitless Live. You're watching the recording. And, she's a physical specimen, right? And knows a lot about athleticism, physical fitness, muscle. I asked her how her sleep was. She slept 10 hours.

Oh, wow.

That night. And again, quantity and also quality obviously as well. Hey, we have a few minutes here either online if they want to show the chat or if anybody here has a question, ideally a question that could support, you know, most of the people here. So the question was, have you done any research or have you seen any studies around sleep apnea and insomnia?

We've done very little. Research on sleep apnea specifically, but we have been able to see huge success with clients who have used our incline sleep kit. So, our incline sleep is— and you don't have to use our kit. I'll give you a quick $10 version of it. Sleeping at an incline, which is not an adjustable bed, that your bed is flat but inclined 5 or 10 degrees, whatever your comfort level is. It eliminates a lot of the pressure up top, opens up your breathing channels. So just having that inclined sleep can help tremendously, and we've heard so many customers saying that. We have a system which is a little more intricate, which is part of our adjustable base, where you can use a remote control and incline or drop it down. But simply taking blocks and putting it at your headboard and raising it up and creating that inclined sleep will do that for you as well. So that's something you may want to really try out.

The question has to do with towards bedtime, your body, high body temperature, how to be able to bring that down. Also, because if your heart rate is going faster, you're not going to sleep.

So basically, this is something that your circumstances force you that you can't have that typical 2 to 3 hours of wind-down. So, I mean, usually from there is shower and be able to force that immediate temperature change to happen. And from there, then you try to get onto the onset of sleep. The problem is you can't be in a cold environment. If you're overheating and you're in a cold room, you'll be perspiring as well, especially if you're getting onto a synthetic mattress. So, you need to get onto organic natural products. If you're going to be on synthetic products, your body heat, even in a cold room, They'll be sweating. And if you— nobody sleeps comfortable if they're sleeping wet. See, the key is how do you stay dry for that first hour until that body temperature has expelled enough heat in an environment that allows your body heat to be released. So my first step to you is shower and sleep on organic products.

You work with a lot of athletes. We've talked about it before in a previous episode, the NBA, the NFL, the MLB, all the All the letters. How have you seen recovery with your clients, with the research from helping people bounce back and heal?

First of all, I'd like to address that with saying we're all athletes in our own lives. So just that we're not getting the pro salaries, we all have to treat ourselves like athletes, because we all have our challenges of the day. We all need to show up and be our best self every day. So that recovery is important for all of us. What I really Notice with the athletes is the better their sleep, increased REM, increased deep sleep, it's incredible how the mind will trigger better immune systems, so they'll stay healthier. The brain will help in delivering the messages for recovery. So that clarity that you see and feel daily in your consciousness that you're feeling better, it's the same thing. The mind is also connecting to your body to heal better, to be more focused and avoid— you're actually avoiding injury. Because when you're hazy and not thinking well, you're not performing well, you're taking missteps. Those missteps lead to injury. So there's so much benefit to sleep. As all of us are personal athletes in our lives, we all need to think like those pro athletes.

How long after you transition from an Essentia mattress, for example, do people start seeing a noticeable benefit? And, I'm sure it's all bio-individual, but—

Yes, it absolutely is an individual result. We have people that say from day 1, they're already sensing it, but typically, I hear people on their 2nd or 3rd week where they're really seeing those full changes take an effect because it's a cumulative thing. You've been sleeping, potentially you've been sleeping wrong for years, And now, that change, you'll feel the good change happening immediately, but when does it actually impact your life? Well, it's only weeks. It's not that long, which is— and then you've got to stick to it and stick to proper environment, proper hygiene, and it'll make everything better.

For me, within 72 hours, I was seeing a difference personally, but again, I imagine everyone's different. If you'd like to find more information, you go to myessentia.com/kwik. KWIK and use code KWIK, and you will get a special discount for our community as a thank you for being one of our Kwik Brain listeners. Jack, thank you so much. Give me a hand.

Thank you. Thank you.