Your Brain on Love: From Lust to True Partnership | Jillian Turecki

What if the key to extraordinary relationships isn't about finding the right person, but becoming the right person?

Because self-esteem is directly correlated with us doing hard things and getting to the other side and feeling proud of ourselves.

Today, we're going to expand your mind with insights that will transform how you think about love, connection, and your own personal growth.

Know that what's on the other side of it is a better relationship with yourself and others. And it doesn't actually have to be that scary.

Why we are attracted to some people and not others.

And we start to think we love this person when really you're in lust. You can't trust who she's attracted to when she's on the birth control pill.

How do you recommend they overcome that obstacle?

You have to surround yourself with the person or the people who you feel safe with, who remind you of who you are.

Welcome back, Kwik Brains. I'm your host and your brain coach, Jim Kwik. Today we have a special guest who's going to help you to unlock not just better relationships, but a better understanding of yourself and the signals your body and your brain are sending you when you are in love. Jillian Turecki is a renowned relationship coach, author of It Begins With You, which I highly recommend. I'm holding a copy if you're watching this on our, on our YouTube, where we put the extended version of this conversation. And she's about to share life-changing truths that will help you to rewire how you think about love and connections. I mean, just think about it. In a world where we're constantly seeking external solutions, Jillian is here to prove that the real transformation begins, as you all know, within. She spent the past 2 decades helping thousands of people revolutionize their relationships by understanding one crucial principle. You are the common denominator. in every relationship you'll ever have. Welcome to the show, Jillian.

Thank you so much for having me and for that wonderful introduction, Jim.

What inspired you to write It Begins With You? And how does this book reflect your, your journey in understanding personal well-being and, and relationships?

Right. So I think it all began around 25 years ago when I discovered yoga. and the practice of yoga asana, and I discovered yoga and meditation, and immediately I was hooked and did it every single day. And, you know, we have a joke sort of in the community, the yoga community, which is there are people who love yoga enough to do it a couple times a week or maybe once a week, and then there are people who become obsessed with it, and it becomes like, part of their identity. And so, I was that person, the latter. And, a couple years, 3 years in, I felt compelled to teach it so that I got trained to teach it and I started to teach it. And, I found that I was particularly, because every teacher of anything that they're teaching has unique gifts, I believe. And, I found that one of my unique gifts was I could really, I could look at a person and look at their posture and even hear the sound of their voice, and I will know what's going on in their body. And then I could also look at their body and have a sense of what their emotional state is. And so I was really good at just helping people sort of break certain physical patterns that would then break mental patterns. And I worked a lot with people individually, and I realized that even if I was helping them, maybe with some sort of physical pain, that actually what I was really helping them with was some sort of emotional pain. And, because I worked with so many people and individuals in their homes, I also worked with couples. And, I would notice that if someone was having a rough time with their partner, their spouse, their boyfriend, their girlfriend, that that would show up in their yoga practice.

Hmm.

Like, they would be stiff, or they would be tired, or their back would be hurting. So, I started to sort of connect these dots. And, but as I started to teach more yoga and, and when, when I was teaching around maybe 7 years, I started to feel like there was something more that I needed in life. And one of the things that I felt that I needed in life was a husband and to have babies. But I also felt like there was a part of me, I didn't know where to take yoga teaching because it's a pretty low ceiling. You know, it's very hard to kind of expand. And, you know, back then it wasn't like things were like all over social media as they are today. It's a very different world. And, um, and so what happened was I ended up meeting the man who would become my husband and then my ex-husband. And, uh, it was an extremely painful marriage. I would say that our relationship leading up to the marriage was about 90% great.

Mm-hmm.

And 10%, very problematic. Now, you could argue that no relationship is perfect. And if you look at that, that's a pretty good measurement. If it's 90% great, that's pretty good. But that 10% was so incredibly profound and significant.

Hmm.

In that, embedded in the 10% were deal breakers. And so when we got married, the 10% became the 90% because marriage can just magnify things, and the 90% became the 10%. And, uh, when it ended and ended abruptly in the story, I, I tell the story in the book, but it's just the way that he did it was terrible. And my mom was dying of lung cancer. I mean, it was like everything that could go wrong was going, went wrong all in one day. And so I entered a dark night of the soul because I thought, how could I be in this position? I didn't understand it. I, it didn't occur to me, well, Jillian, You know, you, your parents had a terrible marriage. You know, you, you did, you weren't modeled this, or, you know, we, we're not taught this in school, or, you know, it's not, it's not enough, even though it, it, even though it's important, it's not enough that you're a good person. You actually need skills and you need to have a certain wisdom around all this. So, When that happened, I became obsessed with what makes a relationship work, and I became obsessed with how I was going to survive this time in my life. And in my pursuit of trying to understand both, I ended up becoming a coach, working with an obscene amount of people. I mean, you teach like, you know, quick reading. It's like I was like kind of like, how can I do this? But like in coaching, right? Like, how can I just do it so effectively? So it ended up reaching the thousands. And I thought, um, you know, I've learned things that I didn't learn in therapy. This is not to put down therapy. This was just my personal experience. I learned things that, you know, I am not seeing all in one book. And it's my responsibility to share this with the world. So—

I just got goosebumps. I call them truth bumps. I know our listeners see parallels where my inspiration was my desperation. And, you know, I didn't understand the challenges that I was going through led to changes and how It wasn't taught in school. And I've, once I figured certain things out, had this moral impetus to help other people who are struggling in these areas. It was a yoga instructor that mentioned to me, and I don't think that she's attributed to this quote, that the issues are in the tissues. So it's interesting how somatic. Yeah. So it's just, I could go, we could go down that rabbit hole there. I know a lot of people are going to go out and get It Begins With You. Maybe you'd explain the core message of your book and why the idea, when I was reading it, of self-compassion is so pivotal in your approach to mental and emotional health.

When you were introducing my book, you read this line of the common denominator in all our relationships is us. That does not mean that we are the only problem. One could have been in a relationship with someone Where the other person was more, a greater percentage of the bigger problem, but you chose that person and you still did things in that relationship that you're not proud of, and you still maybe stayed in a relationship with someone who was incredibly problematic because you don't love yourself enough. So When we talk about the common denominator and this idea of it begins with you, it's not for people to think, well, then I guess I'm just the problem and whatever. What's the point?

No, no, no.

You are the change that you wish to see in your relationships. It's like Gandhi says, we are the change that we wish to see in the world. It is the same theory. And so there's such a fine line that I think we straddle as human beings, which is that How do we have healthy shame for things that we've done that we should, that we know we should not have done, right? Because if we don't have any shame, then we don't have a conscience, right?

Right.

So we have to have some awareness of like, oh man, that was a mistake. That wasn't right. I have to rectify that. How do we balance that with also self-forgiveness and understanding that You making mistakes is not actually a unique thing, that we all make mistakes and we all behave in ways that we wish we hadn't. And we all make decisions that were the wrong decisions. That's part of the reality that is woven into the fabric of life. It's just the truth. And so this idea of it begins with you. It starts with also having— so it's understanding your psychology, but also understanding that you have done the best that you could have done with the tools that you had. And by the way, most of the things that you've done, especially relationally speaking, that you're not proud of, if you peel away the onion and you get to the core of it, it's because of a fear of not being good enough.

Hmm.

And that because of not being good enough, something is going to— love is gonna be taken away from you in some way. And that transcends attachment styles, that transcends trauma. Yes, these are all trauma attachment styles, childhood conditioning, cultural conditioning, the conditioning of this, this, the, the zeitgeist, right? These all play a role, brain chemicals and brain chemistry and neurobiology and the issues in the tissues. All of these things play a role. But I thought that, well, I know that what's gonna help people's understanding is to simplify it and to, for them to understand that when you are afraid that you are not enough, Especially for someone who you're attracted to, and especially for someone who you're in love with, you are going to go a little mad. You're going to go a little crazy. It's not your fault, but you do have control over your behavior. But you have to understand your psychology in order to do that.

Self-awareness plays an important role in this area. We had one question that was submitted. They were excited that you're coming on the show, and they were wondering if you could explain why we are attracted to some people and not others through the lens of Or hormones or, or psychology theories.

So one theory is that, um, we may be attracted to someone who reminds our unconscious of a parent. And here's the real kicker: we will be reminded of the parent who maybe we have a difficult relationship with, or some sort of— maybe it's Maybe it's really difficult. Maybe it's just a little bit difficult. And the psych— the, the theory in the psychology world is our unconscious gravitates towards that because it's familiar and because our unconscious wants to somehow rewrite history or rectify history and, and work it out. So that's one theory, but I also know a lot of people who, uh, who choose people who are, who are the exact opposite. Of their parent who they struggle with. So a lot of it does have to do with hormones. I think that, um, so let's, let's take women who are, um, of a biological age where they're in a, they're at their peak reproductive time. So number one, they are going to be, it's biology that dictates that they're going to want to partner, right? And even if they are gay, they're still going to want to partner because They still want the security and the safety of a partner, and you can still reproduce as a woman. Like there are ways right today in modern society that you can do that, but that woman is looking to most likely build a family and to have family and to have that sort of nurturing and protection. So she might be attracted. Let's let's put this in like a homo heteronormative. framework just because it might be easier, but you can also look at this through any lens. So she might then be looking for a man who is strong, financially stable, has some leadership skills, because in her view, that is someone who's gonna have some sort of providership and, and, and protect her. But what's missing from that equation is, does that person know how to have a conversation? Does that person know how to communicate? Does that person know how to love? Is that person a narcissist? You know what? So we have to delve deeper into that. So, but that's one reason is that the role of estrogen is looking for Protection and safety and providership. Um, there are theories that suggest that when a woman is on the birth control pill, because it alters your— her hormones, that she will be attracted to certain people versus when she's not on the birth control pill, and that you can't trust who she's attracted to when she's on the birth control pill. My personal experience as someone who was on the birth control pill for years and then not on it, that theory doesn't work. It doesn't apply. Like, I don't relate to that. So I don't know how strong that theory is. Some people are like, oh my God, yes. No, that— so I, I don't, I don't know. But, but it is something for someone to consider. One other thing that might be interesting for this reader to know is that if you Are used to, whether it's from childhood or past relationships or how you feel about yourself. If you equate love with surges in cortisol, surges in dopamine, you might then choose the person who, when you are in dynamic, in relationship with one another, There, it's like a roller coaster.

It was interesting when you were talking about how we could, we can model our relationships around our parents and which parent did we, whose love did we crave more? Who did we want to be acknowledged by? A lot of, I would imagine a lot of our listeners are in maybe an early stage of a relationship. And there are a lot of intense factors that come up in these early stages. You mentioned some of them, attachment styles, chemistry, hormones. And you talked a little bit about what's happening in our bodies and brains. One of the questions from our community that I thought was interesting is how do we recognize whether we are dealing with, with love or lust, obsession, or an actual desire to be in a committed relationship? Do you have too much to read but too little time? Are your shelves full of books that you haven't read yet and become Shelf help, not self-help. And that's why I created the Kwik Reading Course. 15 minutes a day, 21 days will absolutely transform your life. Just go to kwikbrain.com/reading, use the code PODCAST15, and you'll get instant access.

I love this question because there's a truth in my book that's called Lust Is Not Love. And I thought that this was one of the most important things that I could share with people. So there's 2 ways to look at it. There's the chemical way, and then there's sort of like the psychological way, which is that— so when we first meet someone and we're really excited about them, and there's like that surge of connection that you feel with this person, it's called chemistry. We think that it's love, but really what's happening is that Well, dopamine is increasing. Cortisol is increasing because, believe it or not, there's almost like when we feel that excitement for someone, there's almost like a little mini crisis that's happening because we are not in control anymore. We feel very outta control. This person is sort of like in our thoughts. And it's for people who really value novelty and adventure, for people who are really, who lean more towards dopamine. That's really exciting. It's going to be really exciting for everyone regardless, because, I mean, our time on this earth is so fleeting. I mean, this is kind of the fun stuff.

Mm-hmm.

But at the same time, it also can be incredibly destabilizing. When that increases, serotonin decreases. If someone already has low serotonin, or even just the natural decrease of serotonin with the rise of cortisol, what happens is that then we start to become obsessive, and we start to ruminate, and we start to think we love this person when really you're in lust. And part of the thinking that goes on is, this person is the one, this person is going to complete me, this person is going to fill all my emotional voids. We're not thinking this on a, on a conscious level, but an unconscious level. This is what we're thinking. And then we get very attached. Now, what's the role of estrogen in all of this? As we actually move out of lust and it's more of like a deeper connection, like we're out of like the crisis, like, oh my God, I mean, hopefully we're out of the crisis. Some relationships stay in that crisis. But hopefully if it transitions out of like, does he like me? Does she like me? Are they texting me back? Like, oh my God, this connection is so amazing. They're so beautiful. They're so hot, blah, blah, blah. Like that, that thing that happens when we start to bond. On a more emotional level, we release hormones such as oxytocin, and that is sort of the bonding hormone. And women, especially women who produce a fair amount of estrogen, produce that more. This is also the bonding that happens between a mother and a baby. This is also why women, if they really like someone, once they have sex, once they sleep with them, They're gonna feel very bonded, whereas men release oxytocin as well, but not nearly to the same degree because their estrogen is much lower. So men can have, um, most men, I don't wanna overgeneralize, but most men, especially of a certain age group, can have, um, more int— physical intimacy without feeling, without getting connected. And so that's one of the things that, that a lot of people, a lot of women will struggle with is, well, why, you know, we just had this wonderful evening together. Like we spoke for 5 hours, we had this amazing lovemaking session, and then I didn't hear from him. And it's like, well, because, you know, maybe that wasn't actually what he was— he didn't feel that same emotional connection. And that could be Neurochemistry.

I mean, when we're talking about this connection, when in a relationship, you know, our nervous system gets synchronized with our partners. And if there's a separation, it brings about, you know, potential acute shock.

Yes.

You know, for anyone who's gone through a breakup, how can we approach that separation, that breakup? Is your recommendation that we look at it more logically? And how do we get out of our own heads more easily through knowing how to regulate our nervous system? Do we need to tame things like anxiety, a loss of appetite, rumination, sleepless nights, you know? And yes, what would your recommendation be?

So just to piggyback off of what you just said, for people going through that, especially the acute stage, which is usually the first few months where you're in shock, Know that what you're going through is actually very common and normal, and there is definitely stuff going on in your, in your brain chemistry and what's going on in your body. You're going into survival mode. You are, you have to understand that it is sort of like a withdrawal from a substance, especially when, because like you said, when you're with someone, your nervous system synchronizes, even if that wasn't a great relationship. Even if that wasn't a great relationship. So practical things that people can do to get out of their head, well, talk to someone, because when things are in our head and we don't write them down, they have a tendency to become bigger and to swallow us whole. So talk to someone, write it down. That's part of processing your feelings. You're going to feel a lot, part of what's going on in your body. So dramatically is because you're feeling so many different things related to grief. So you're experiencing depression, you're experiencing anger, you're experiencing denial. You're not at the acceptance stage. So oftentimes you'll get really, really angry and you'll wanna throw something, but really what you're feeling is very hurt or disappointed, or maybe you feel ashamed or you feel like a failure. So you wanna be able to process your feelings. This actually regulates the nervous system. You gotta move your body. Now, even if you're exhausted, you don't have to go for a run. You don't have to lift weights. Stretch, do some yoga, do some, I don't know, breathing exercises. Lie on your back and just stretch your body. Twist your legs to one side, your torso to the other, and just let, and breathe deeply. And you have to surround yourself with the person or the people who you feel safe with, who remind you of who you are. Because fundamentally, what happens during a breakup is a crisis of identity. And when we experience that, things get really ugly for us emotionally and mentally. So you have to surround yourself. And these are the practical, logical steps that you need to do in order to get out of your head and to start to regulate. And it takes time, but it works.

You have a podcast yourself where you discuss how to love someone with a physical or a mental health condition. And I think it's a question that might resonate with our audience as well, as we often discuss topics around mental health, cognitive conditions like Alzheimer's, autism, maybe. And I don't want you to have to go through the whole episode, but just maybe a possible insight that you could share with our audience around this.

Sure. So I believe the episode was very specific around what do you do when your partner's depressed? And You know, there's the depression that comes with an event like the death of someone, and then there's the depression that comes with feeling like you don't have purpose. There's the depression that comes with a chronically dysregulated nervous system that hasn't processed trauma. So when your partner is depressed, it's always important to let the people you love know that you are there for them. And that you want to help them, and that you are a safe person for them. When you're in a romantic relationship with someone who's depressed, you also have to make sure that you take care of yourself. Because what happens that whenever someone is dealing with something big, like a major mental health concern, or a major physical concern, or addiction. What happens is that the person who's in a relationship with them can easily abandon their own needs and only focus on the needs of their partner and wanna fix them. And so it's important that, um, you find a way to fill your own cup and, um, to help your partner in the best ways that you can. But not to the detriment of your own emotional and mental wellbeing. And that's much easier said than done, but it's important because the relationship isn't going to improve if both of you are sucked into this hole. But there is a chance If one person can, can stay centered and work on themselves and be connected to themselves.

What would you say are the probably the more common barriers that prevent people from engaging in the self-work that you, you advocate for? You know, and how, how do you recommend they overcome that obstacle? You know, is there, is there a lie that they're telling themselves, or is there something that's preventing people from engaging in the self-work?

That's a fantastic question. That's a great question. So right off the top of my head, it can be scary.

Yeah.

Right. People are afraid of what they're going to uncover, so they will procrastinate and say, I don't need that help, or I'm fine. It takes a lot of surrender and a lot of humility and a lot of self-awareness to be like, oh, That's what's going on. That's what I need to look at. Sometimes the things that you look at are painful, but the idea is not to look at, is not to focus on the pain. The idea is to just bring it out of your tissues.

Right.

So, it doesn't live there anymore, to take a real look at it. So, the main block is One of the stories that they're telling themselves is like, I'm fine, I'm fine, it's okay. Maybe they grew up in a family where the culture was just more like, just grin and bear it, pull up your socks, sweep it under the rug. And life is funny because there really is a balance. There is some value to being like, let it go, pull up your socks. There is some value to that, but to what extent, right? You don't wanna suppress it. So what can they do? First of all, know that what's on the other side of it is a better relationship with yourself and others. And it doesn't actually have to be that scary. It really doesn't have to be that scary. You are just in, I want people to be aware of, like, I had to do this recently for myself, which is, 'cause I'm a human being, I'm just like all the rest of us. I was like, wow, I'm like, I'm in a pa— I'm like in a pattern right now where this is what I was thinking to myself, where I'm a little dysregulated. And so like, what am I doing when I'm a little dysregulated? Oh, I'm like getting into like the bad habits again, where I'm like not doing my yoga, I'm not meditating, or I'm eating a little bit too much chocolate. And then it's like, and then it furthers the dysregulation. And I just had to be like, okay, you know, I'm like in this habit. And part of the work is being able to give to myself in a way that I can feel more grounded. So immediately the meditation came back. Immediately the yoga came back. The chocolate's still there, but it's a little bit less. So it's just about— That, and you just want the awareness of how are you standing in your own way? And here are some of the things that you're gonna do to not stand in your own way. Maybe it's adopting a different habit. Maybe it's just doing something like exercise every day. Maybe it's having that hard conversation with someone. And guess what? You're gonna feel so much better, and then your self-esteem is gonna go up. Because self-esteem is directly correlated with us doing hard things and facing hard things and getting to the other side and feeling proud of ourselves.

There's this idea that it's often the treasure we seek is hidden in the work that we're avoiding or that we're kind of scared to take on. As we wrap up here, what is one action that our listeners can take today besides ordering your book? As like a first step to initiate this positive change in their lives? Sure.

So I would say 2 things. One is, if you're not moving your body, start to move your body. That's very important. You don't, it doesn't have to be major, but move your body. You could dance. You move your body in a way every single day, even if it's 15 minutes. Don't think that you have to do, go to the gym or go to the exercise class for 2 hours. You really do not. So move your body every day. And another thing is, If there's a conversation that you've been putting off or something that you've been avoiding, just notice how much stress that's actually causing you and just have the hard conversation.

Yeah. Often people will use time as an excuse. They're like, I don't have 30 minutes to meditate or 30 minutes to do yoga. And my response is always, wow, if you're so busy, you don't have 30 minutes to do that, then you probably should do that for an hour.

Yeah, exactly. That idea of I don't have the time. You know, that may be like once in a while, but that is literally your— you are in survival mode. You use every— you are racing against the clock constantly that you don't believe that you have time for anything. So that's what you have to look at.

Yeah, I really do believe that we're the greatest project we're ever going to get to work on. So take time, make time, schedule time to, you know, create that magic.

So important.

I'm so curious, what is there— what is one thing that you're currently learning about or studying that has you excited? I find that passion is what lights you up and maybe even taking that passion and sharing with others becomes where they light up. You know, it's become more of a purpose. Like my passion is learning. It lights me up.

Yeah.

Teaching people how to learn, you know, is my purpose because it lights them up. But I'm curious, is there something you're currently learning or curious about? Or studying that has you particularly excited?

Yeah, well, other than relationships, 'cause that's my obsession. So I've always studied the mind-body connection through yoga, but what I have found to be really, what I'm really getting into is this idea of psychosomatic symptoms. So people having physical symptoms are a manifestation of repressed anger and repressed sadness. So that's something that I'm— so that the pathway to healing is dealing with the emotions, not just dealing with the body. And that's what I'm really excited about currently because, and there's a second part to this, it's not just the emotions, it's the state of your relationships can actually make you well or sick. So I'm really— so included in the mind-body connection is the relationship mind-body connection.

Wow. And the relationship within, within yourself, because it's not just, you know, we talk a lot about neurological networks, but it's also our social networks. I find that the largest growth that I've had personally is my roles as a, as an entrepreneur. Right. There's a lot of growth there. but also my intimate relationships. With that person, you're so vulnerable, you know, and they're a mirror for a lot of the things that, you know, that we're going through. This has been such a wonderful conversation. Highly recommend everyone gets It Begins With You. How do people— you recommend people get their copy or stay in touch with you or go deeper with you?

Yeah, no, I mean, get their copy at jilliantarecki.com/book. And then, you know, you can follow me on my podcast, Jillian on Love, and on social media. You just need to know the first— my first and last name. You'll find me.

That's perfect. Yeah, I highly recommend everyone, if they can take a screenshot of this and when you post it, I think it's a wonderful way to share. When we want to learn something better, we could share it with others, our fans, our followers, our family, our friends. I think that's, you learn to earn, you get benefit, but then you return. And then if you take a screenshot, you could tag Jillian, tag myself so we get to see it. Jillian, I want to thank you so much for being on our show. I was really looking forward to this conversation.

Oh, Jim, thank you so much. I was so looking forward to it.

Yes. So as always, everyone, you can find out more ways to fuel your learning, your brain's potential on our YouTube channel where we post the extended version of this episode, which is definitely— there's more if you're listening to this on audio. We keep it to 20 minutes because it's quick, but we have the extended version there. You can join our 1.8 million subscribers on YouTube. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Leave a comment. I read every single one, um, under the episode. Let us know what you think. And this is your brain coach, Jim Kwik. Until next time, be limitless.