How a 12-person team outputs like 100 people with AI

3 years ago, I had an agency business selling software that today an AI system can just write based on a prompt.

If you were a bad marketer before AI came along, you're just a worse marketer now. And if you were a good marketer before AI came along, you're a 10x marketer.

The shift that has happened there is that the person actually doing the work is not doing the actual work anymore.

The thing that I've done as a founder, which is pretty interesting, is I've backed off and said, this is good enough.

From the open to the click, they're the masters of the flow. Watch your list grow and your leads turn to go. Did we retain you so far, or do we have to extend it? If you want results, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it.

What is going on, everyone? Welcome back to Send It, where we discuss anything and everything retention marketing, specifically in e-commerce, in email and SMS. My name is Jimmy Kim, and I'm here today with a very special interview. I've got on the line here a very special person. His name is Patrick Heide. He comes to us all the way from Amsterdam here today, and I'm excited to talk to him all about things, all things creative, ads, marketing perspective, AI, a lot of fun things we're going to talk about. But first of all, Patrick, welcome to the show.

Yeah, thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, well, Patrick, let's start with just your background because you've been, you know, I was looking at your LinkedIn before we got on this pod and I've got it up in front of me. And dude, you've done a lot of really cool stuff, obviously outside You were also an angel investor in some pretty cool companies I saw, all the way from some popular companies like Lovable or Neuralink. And then you've just been an angel investor in a lot of pretty winning companies ultimately. So dude, can you start from the top and just tell us about your background a little bit and maybe a couple of the other companies you started and where you are today?

Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm very happy to do so. So yeah, I mean, I've been an online, I mean, tech entrepreneur essentially my entire life.

I started my first company in 2012, and I've been doing that ever since.

in high school. Back then, you know, that's kind of 13, 14 years ago. Not really that much was known about anything that I'm doing today, which is AI, right? But started my first company in high school. We built a marketplace for selling books and phones and things like that. It was kind of before the Facebook Marketplace era. And then eBay came along and everything. So a small business in a small town. I'm originally from Germany. I live in Amsterdam now. And then since then, basically, I've been building software products, different software products, and went through a couple different startups. Obviously, you know, some startup ideas work out really well, some don't. And so I've really seen a lot over the last years. Spent 1.5 years at a company called Gorillas. That was in the COVID times where there was a major hype around quick grocery delivery, right? 10-minute grocery delivery. So this was a crazy business to work on in that time. And then afterwards founded a product and tech studio. We worked for a lot of different companies helping them build their products for about 2.5, 3 years. But honestly, when I came across Lovable, and this was pretty early on in their journey, and obviously more and more AI products started to gain traction, this was around like 2 years ago. I realized this is gonna be a pretty big wave and there's gonna be some pretty big change here. And so then we actually decided that we would take our pretty profitable, pretty great business from an agency perspective and pivot it completely to what I'm doing today, which is building Superskill. And so, yeah, I've been kind of through different waves in the software world and so many things have changed. You know, like so oftentimes I talk about like how we build software products. Yeah. Even 4 or 5 years ago versus how it is today. It's so different. And then obviously along the way, I got to know a lot of different founders and meet them and invest. I mean, thankfully invest in some of their companies, which have turned out to be pretty great businesses. So yeah, I love to kind of see things from the world of building a company myself, but then also being a small investor in some of these companies. And then obviously you get also a bit of an inside perspective of what's happening there. And we also have a family business here in e-commerce in the Netherlands. So I'm very plugged into that space as well. And so yeah, overall a very active and interested entrepreneur.

Okay. What's the family business in e-commerce that you're doing?

We are—

so there is a— so it's actually my brother-in-law running it and they started with elderly care products, selling them online and it's grown pretty quickly. And so they're launching now, it's pretty big in the Netherlands already and And so they're launching more and more brands now from where they are.

Very cool.

Yeah. And it's interesting to see, right? Because I mean, this is really the area where I'm now kind of looking at it from a technological perspective, right? Like, I mean, I'm obviously spending all my day with AI and what's possible in AI. But when you look at a business like this, and I know we'll talk more about e-comm and the kind of this area. It's just a massive potential, right? I mean, you can literally today build a whole brand with a couple of people and AI agents, and you get all that support from what's now possible in AI. And so I think there will be amazing businesses built with these new capabilities that ultimately sell products to end customers, right? And so that's really cool to see. It kind of, it's a, I'm basically seeing like the firsthand application of what we're building at Superscale in one of these businesses, right? And that's cool. That's fun.

No, that's very cool. And when you have made that shift, I think it's always interesting and you've done it already, but a lot of these founders that I meet, they start in that agency where they're servicing people, they're helping people out, and then they've kind of had that aha moment. And then they realize like, this is the thing that I need to go work on because they start to see the big thing. You know, I think it was maybe, it was about 2024 when I exited my last company. And when I exited, my big aha moment, and I think you've had this aha moment and everyone's Everyone's having this aha moment. I like to think that I was a little bit ahead of the game with this thought process, but distribution being such a big part of what it takes to be successful, right? It's not just about having the best tech. It's not about the fanciest tools, the prettiest brand. What really matters is can you get that information out there? And I know at the end of the day, it's— we call this traffic in the earliest days, like can you generate traffic, right? But now it's really can you generate distribution and different things? Has that been something that you've really seen as well too? And I think that that's been like the shift that made you guys go from this agency to tech, right?

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I mean, the reality is, you know, when you look at it from a very high level, AI as a technology in all of the different forms that it is now taking shape, ultimately it's like a building thinking partner for a human to do what you want to do, but much more effectively and faster, right? So if you, if you want to launch an e-commerce business today, You can use it. You can use AI everywhere, right? Basically, like in from the product design, from sourcing the products, from getting it shipped. You know, all of it's it's it's applicable everywhere. And then obviously, you know, when you launch your store and you run ads, and I mean it becomes even more in terms of the potential there. And so more and more people, which I think is beautiful, are becoming entrepreneurs, right? Because there is a there is a lower barrier in. starting something up. And obviously, like, I mean, there's still in e-com, there's still the real-world product to it, right? Which is—

Of course.

There is something that's a harder part. But if you look at software, it's extreme, right? I mean, the democratization of building software is unlike anything I have seen before, right? And for me, that's just so crazy to see because even, I mean, 3 years ago, I still had an agency business that was that was doing good money selling software that today, which is just a couple of years later, an AI system can just write based on a prompt. Right. And so that, that has just been completely rationalized away. Right. And so that's really the big transition that's happening now. I think if that's happening and we see it just accelerating every single month, then distribution becomes so crucial. Right. Because now you could be in a market where more and more people can, from an ability standpoint, launch a product. And so the question becomes, how do you develop something that— how do you develop the skill and the process and really the machine to get the attention to your product, right?

Yeah.

And so it's really the— I think for me, the democratization of starting a business and building a product And now it shifts really the challenge to getting the attention to your specific product and building a brand around it and everything, right? I mean, attention is just one thing, but building the distribution machine and the ads and the brand and the story that you're telling and whether it's a unique story, that's, I think, really where now the new challenge arises for everyone that is in this world and starts Chase, you've been on Omnisend for a while now, right?

You moved over from Klaviyo now a few years ago.

Yeah. And honestly, I put it off for the longest time because migrating sounded like an absolute nightmare. Email flows, SMS segments, forms, templates. Dude, it was a lot. And it's not exactly something you just knock out in an afternoon these days.

Dude, that's exactly right, because that's the part that people keep getting stuck on, even when they know they want to switch. Nobody wants to rebuild their entire business.

Yeah, and it's a lot, right? And that's why I love what Omnisend's doing now with their new migration. Switching over takes just 5 business days and their team does a ton of the heavy lifting, which is fantastic. They help rebuild automation, segments, forms, templates, so you're not starting from zero. Plus, for my account, and I've seen other brands, they're saving up to 35 or so percent. It is really incredible.

I've experienced this myself. 5 days is an incredible fee. That's fast. And I know that they really got a system down because listen, the hardest part about signing up for a new platform isn't the price or anything else, though that's a nice benefit. It's that moving that makes it really hard and making sure that stuff doesn't break, right?

Yeah, 100%. That was my big concern.

And you know what? What's really cool about Omnisend is that they got a bunch of new AI stuff now too, right?

Yeah, we've been geeking out. pretty hard with it. So they have their Omnisend MCP, which essentially connects Omnisend with ChatGPT or Claude. So instead of having to dig through dashboards and trying to piece together everything yourself, you literally can just ask questions, pull reports, check performance, and move way faster directly within Claude or ChatGPT.

Yeah, which is basically how people want to work now.

I think it's really going to be the only way to work now and in the future. And if you've been thinking about switching, especially if you're on Klaviyo, You do need to check out Omnisend.

Big shout out to our sponsor here. Go to omnisend.com and check out their migration page. We've got a link. If you sign up through our link, you'll get 30% additional off for the first 3 months on top of the savings that you'll have. But putting this off because it sounds painful, migration's hard, that's what they build for and you should go check them out. Now back to your pod. Yeah. And that all leads to the one thing that I think is the biggest lever. And we've talked about this before the show, but creative, right? Creating creatives are kind of the most important part in coming up with different ideas. And one of the stats that you shared with me pre-show was that only 5% of ads are real winners and a lot of them aren't. And when you think about the old way of doing it, which was you'd have a designer and a strategist developing hundreds of creatives, right? They'd be showing you. And I've done this, been on the other side of this where you get this folder from your designer and there's like 100 ads, 500 ads, and So many videos and you're like, well, what do I do? Do I go test them all, do different things with them? Tell us, tell us as you've been exploring this world, you know, the winning patterns that you're seeing when it comes to creative. What are the things that you see that the highest converting creative is ultimately doing in the market today as you're getting that like interesting view of being able to see other people out there doing this?

Yes, yes, yes. So I think first of all, it's important to say that there's obviously so many different formats that a creative can have, right?

Sure.

So we are not talking about just a static or video like there is across the board formats and then each format has its trends of what is currently talking to people. But I think there is some underlying truth to advertising. And so one of them is a good ad is somewhat entertaining, it's somewhat interesting, it's somewhat of a story. Right? It sometimes it doesn't even it's not it doesn't even look like something that someone would describe as an ad. It kind of talks to you in a sense that it's on one level with you, and it tells you an authentic story and something that you want to learn about. And now that can be that is a message that can be delivered in different ways, right? You could have a static ad where it's like a long story from the founders and and how they came up with the company and the product. It could be a video of someone talking about how they use the product, right? Like a UGC-style video, which is incredibly popular. Now, I think what I have found now that I've been working in this space for more than a year, seeing thousands of creatives literally, and of course AI-generated, which makes it even more possible to generate more creatives than ever before, is that Ultimately, it's about the machine that you built that drives your creative production and your process and how quickly you iterate. Because if there's one thing that I believe no expert in this space will ever be able to tell you is whether a creative will actually be able to work for you, right?

Yeah.

This is, this is, so if I would, if I would sit here right now and say I found the winner for Meta ads, you know, it might be true for some businesses. It might be true in a given week or so that this is like an interesting format. But it changes so quickly. So ultimately it's not really about like, okay, do I get the first 5 ads? It's not, it's not even about whether I get the first 20 ads. It is about whether you establish a system in your business where you come up with creative ideas and concepts and inspiration from the marketplace that very quickly translates into creatives that tell you a story. And sometimes it is just a moment. It's just a fact. It's so many different factors coming together that make a creative work, right? So we have a— I can give you a simple example from a customer we had. And we work with so many different companies and I see so many different creatives. And sometimes, you know, it's kind of the weirdest ad, the weirdest format, the weirdest creative that you see that just talks to people, right? Just to give you a simple example, we had a company that was putting out, I think, 20, 30 creatives to start on Meta ads. And the one creative that wasn't talking about— it didn't have the logo, it wasn't talking really about the product, it was just talking about the problem they were trying to solve in a meme, just a meme, literally a meme. And there wasn't a logo, there was nothing, right? It was just a meme and just an organic content piece. I could have posted this, just funny me, right? But it ended up being their best winning creative. And so what I, in a certain timeframe, right? And then it gets replaced by something else. And so you iterate and you build that machine. And so I think more than ever, it comes down to understanding that the creative process is a machine that you build in constantly telling the story and the benefits and the USPs of your product. In creative ways. Now, what's happening, and that's I think the second big trend, is that obviously with AI coming into the picture, many people in the marketplace early on started to leverage it hard for their creative production. And so what then happened is now you're in a market where you have to use it, you have to apply it because Even if you have all the creative ideas, if you have a competitor that just rotates creatives 5 times faster than you are, you have no chance of keeping up, right? Because they might just find that winning creative much faster. And so they can put more spend and they scale. And so really it kind of came down to that. And then the third factor I think that's important just to mention is even the platforms then started adopting their algorithms, right? So you have the Andromeda update. From Meta ads, for example. And so they then get also started kind of thinking about, okay, where is this all going? And so they realized, oh my God, you know, people are now able to ship so many more creatives. So we have to make sure they're kind of visually different, they're unique. We don't want to see people, you know, pumping out one ad with 20 different copy. And so that's kind of the dynamic in which we are now. I think it will only accelerate from here. Right? We are entering, we are going to be in the world where there is a possibility that you see an ad that's just built for you. Like, like literally it could, it could, you know, it would be 100% targeted to what you like and how you would see the product and what would be talking to you because you can hyper-personalize the messaging and the creative with what's possible now with AI, with also, of course, the cost going down for producing an AI image. on a constant basis, right? And so more than ever, it just comes down to understanding that now, like back in the days, you would kind of worry a lot about like, I need to build my product, I need to, you know, have all the teams and engineering and an agency building everything for me. And so now you can do more yourself, but now it's the, it's the time where you think about what system do I need to scale my distribution? And that is—

Sure.

ideas, concepts, research, the loop, right? And AI being able to help in a lot of areas of that. And so I think that's kind of where I start. That's how I've seen the evolution of what's happened in just over the course of the last 1.5 years.

Yeah, no, you know what's funny is that you kind of mentioned it, and I think I see this quite often where people are just using the generic AI right now and they're trying to create creatives. But the reality is, is like, If you're not working within, you know, a lot of different boundaries and constraints that you're generating with AI, if you just tell AI to create, hey, create me a creative for my coffee company, and it will create the same creative for 100 coffee companies the exact same way. And I think that's the biggest thing where we are seeing what I would call the marketer shift. And I have this hot take that I tell people all the time. I said, if you were a bad marketer before AI came along, you're just a worse marketer now. And if you were a good marketer before AI came along, you're a 10x marketer. And we're separating the sea. Like, we're kind of thinking about it like 2 ways. There's either a bad marketer and there's a good marketer that's happening right now. And I'm clearly seeing this in the marketplace and the job is shifting completely. What are you seeing with the job of a marketer when it comes to this and the shift with AI and everything else that comes along with it right now? All right, real quick. It's kind of wild that we're already talking about holiday planning in July right now. Just like any other event, there's basically a conversation every where people are already diving into BFCM planning, testing promos, prepping inventory, creative acquisition, the whole thing. And it makes sense because e-com brands, Q4 is when not only when traffic gets expensive, but it's when the traffic is the highest. That's why I find retention.com super interesting right now. You're already paying to get more people to your site, but the most valuable visitors are still leaving without buying anything or joining your lists. And retention.com helps you turn those anonymous traffic into opt-in, email subscribers. So you're not just renting attention for the holidays, you're building an audience that you can keep marketing to after the season ends. And they've made it super flexible right now, which is huge. You can start for absolutely free, turn it on when you need it, turn it off when you don't, and you pay as you go, which is crazy because everyone else is charging these big contracts. So if BFCM planning is already on your mind, which it should be, this is probably one of those places that you want to go check it out. Go check it out, retention.com. Go start for free. We'll take you back to your pod.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, honestly, you know, if you look into how significantly AI is changing, I mean, it will change every single job that exists, especially the ones that are somewhat connected to pressing keys on a keyboard and moving the mouse, right? Which is just, if you're working on a computer, AI will have a tremendous effect on your life. Now, I think pretty early on, I'm very connected to the software engineering world, right? So, I looked at what is happening in software engineering. And so, for me, the core realization was that very likely many areas of a business will look like software engineering over time. Now, the shift that has happened there is that the person actually doing the work is not doing the actual work anymore. And with that, I mean writing code. So, and that transition, by the way, and people tend to forget that, has happened within about a year of time, like maybe 1.5 years, right? 1.5 years ago, you would have AI systems that kind of helped to complete the sentence, you know, like pretty handy stuff, but nothing revolutionary.

That's right.

But it made people faster, you know, but it would kind of add like the last 4 words to a sentence as a simple example. Now, 1.5 years later, you can literally just, I mean, you have your microphone and you speak into the computer for 5 minutes, everything that you want to build today. And then you press enter and you go get a coffee for 10 minutes and you come back and everything is built, right? And it's like 200,000 lines of code that have been written. So, I mean, it's a massive shift. And so, I think what will happen, and again, this is going to be about the people that realize this early and change how they do their job based on that realization, which is people are being moved up to the level of a kind of an orchestrator, right? So you have agentic systems, agents that can do a specific job much better, much faster than you ever could. So you will have a static ads agent, which is completely trained on building for example, static ads for Meta ads. And so it knows the safe zones and the guidelines and your brand guide, and it's like handling that perfectly. And you're going to instruct this agent with your ideas. Now, the same goes for different areas in the stack. And I think there is a big benefit here, which is there is just a massive amount of room and time created for creativity for the actual ad idea. And this, I think this plays to what you said with like, if you're a good marketer, And you have creative ideas of how to tell your story. Now you can use these technologies, these agents to kind of start building a team around yourself that executes on these ideas very fast. And I think this is where things are going, right? And it's very parallel to where software engineering is today. And I think where a lot of different areas are at today. And I think the reality, you know, if we look at our company, We're a 12-people team, but I think we kind of employ 50 agents, 100 agents, right?

100%?

I mean, literally, literally everyone on the team has a certain system set up for what they're working on. And they have agents that they have kind of given skills and they've trained them and they've kind of designed a setup where certain types of work, certain areas of work gets executed very fast. Now, I think there is a next level to this, which we are also seeing in coding. And it's, again, I mean, this will sound very futuristic, but it's, I mean, it's kind of already here, which is quite crazy to think about, which is you have agents kind of working together, right? And they collaborate. So you now have an agent team. You can give a, you can give a more an objective to, to a team of agents and they will work through that whole process. And so over time, I think the role of a marketer will be the role of the person generating the ideas, giving approval, reviewing ads that have been generated, and then based on that, basically providing the agents with input and observing, but not having to do the actual foundational work anymore. Now you could say, oh well, it's fun for me to do this, right? I don't want to live— I don't want to I don't want to do it. I want to. I don't want to hand it over to agents. I want to do it myself. The problem with that is, if you have just one competitor that runs ten agents, you have no way to compete, right? Because you can have a static ads agent that generates more concept ideas in a in a year, in in in in a day than than a human would would in a year, right? And so I think really it comes down to the you know how quickly people realize that there is a massive shift underway where. Your task is now to build your team of agents, right? I would put it like that. And you kind of have this like idea where you're handing over the work and you're getting things done and you're kind of, you're the connector in the middle between all these systems. And that's what can make you successful. And if you play it well, you have more time to generate the creative content, to do the human creativity, right? Which AI is not super good at. Yeah. And you give the creative ideas and the agents execute it for you and you launch concepts every day and you're successful in your marketing. I think that's really where ultimately this goes to.

Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. You know, creative storytelling strategy, it's what I tell everybody these days. Like everything else can be replaced with agents and it's someone like even myself, you know, I always, we always laugh because I think back decade plus ago when I started my first tech company and, you know, did that versus where we are today and it's like, Wow, the world is so different. You know, I've always had the great idea and the end idea, but I could never put the center together, right? I could never do the connections without going to my designer, going to this person, going to that person, going to that person, having them put it all together. And what I find fascinating about AI, and we're the same thing, we're a very small company, but we do big revenue. And what we've done is we've realized is with enough agents and optimizations, workflows, different things that we have, you don't need all of that anymore and you can still create that same level of output. And it may not be the perfect 1,000% output, but it does accomplish what I would say the 90%, right? The 90, 95%. And it's honestly the thing that I've done as a founder, which is pretty interesting, is I've backed off and said, you know what? This is good enough. Let's go deploy it instead of sitting back and like trying to perfect it because perfection isn't going to come because as you said, 95% of the stuff that I'm throwing out in the creative world is going to fail anyways.

Exactly.

And instead of spending that time, why not spend less time time getting the creative done and then getting it out there. And it doesn't matter if you're an email or if you're retention, your ads, or it doesn't matter what part of the funnel you are in marketing. This holds true so much all around.

Absolutely.

Well, dude, I'd love to talk into Super Scale AI because this is what you're building today. Obviously started an agency, solved a problem. Now you're helping marketers create advertising or creative throughout probably all of the funnel that they're working on. Tell us a little bit about that. Like, what are you guys trying to accomplish? What are you doing right now? And, you know, why would people use SuperScale AI today? Hey, you guys want to stay connected with us? Guess what? We send a daily retention newsletter out that you should join right now. If you're not a part of it, it's at ecomemailmarketer.com. It's completely free. We send it to your inbox daily. We do breakdowns. We talk about the latest things. We talk about the latest tools out there. There's so much you can do. Plus, we even talk about the pod, of course. So If you're enjoying the pod, you want to be here, you want to listen to us, you want more email and SMS retention marketing tips, tactics, tools, tricks, whatever it might be, head over to ecomemailmarketer.com. We probably have something free that we're giving away right now too on top of that. So go get that, download it, join our newsletter. We'll see you there.

Yeah.

So I mean, essentially, you know, I have a big belief in where this is going, right? As I just outlined kind of how I see that transition. And so when we saw that transition happening in the software world, we thought about what's the equivalent gonna be in the marketing world, right? Because if distribution matters this much, you wanna have your agent, you wanna have your agent system that is custom built for that world. And so that's what we've built with SuperScale. So we build a platform where it's very easy for you to go in, connect your Shopify store, Get your products in and then use agents that we've built, that we've trained to launch marketing. And that is research in the ad library, generating static ads, generating video ads, then upscaling, you know, your ads in the different placements and then launching them on Meta Ads or connecting your Meta Ads account and running analysis. It's really a platform where marketers today come with their product, create their brand context, invite their team or, you know, an agency kind of having several brands, and then they have a shared workspace to launch and deploy these agents. And that's really, that's what we're building. And it's grown really quickly over the course of this year. Obviously, factors, different factors coming together, right? So there's very intelligent models that have come out that are that have just made possible for a lot of like highly complex tasks to be executed. We have found a way where we have a huge kind of research technology behind it that looks at, you know, millions of ads every day and finds new trends, surfaces new trends. And then obviously if you use an AI system like Superscale, you can kind of go in and you can, in 5 minutes, you can look at 500 ads that are trending today and kind of get out the 5 ideas that you should be building and immediately generate them as well, right? So I think the big lever here has been that we've put together different abilities that AI has in one platform where you can go in, you get your context in, you connect your store, you connect your ad accounts, and now you can start running your marketing operation in that way that I described where you have different chats with different agents. To start deploying and start getting that head start, right? Because the reality is, you know, it's kind of like the AI capability is there, right? You can go to, you can prompt a model directly like Claude. But the reality is if you want to execute on specific tasks, you have to have a certain framework, right? If you want to have an on-brand creative, that's not so easy to do. You have to have a, very cleaned up context about your brand. Everything needs to be in order. You know, we spend a lot of time thinking about how do we get logos right? How do we get the on-brand, you know, ads to be on-brand? How do you get them to 4 to 5 for Meta ads and then scale them up in the different placements that you need, right? So there are specific workflows that have to work really well with AI. And that's what we're building. And people are generating, I mean, at this point, you know, we started about a year ago, but people are generating thousands of ads every day. And it's really crazy. It's, I mean, it's basically made me really confident in the belief that very, very quickly now every ad creative will be generated by AI just because you have systems like Superscale that make this so easy to do. And they basically give you the head start, you know, in terms of like, okay, We give you the platform that gives you the agents and you just start prompting. And so you have the execution layer. And so you can think about the ideas. You can think about like, for which product do I wanna build my ad? What's my story? What do I wanna, you know, how do, what's my idea? What's my next creative I wanna build? And then you just prompt it and you get it out 5 minutes later and then you can upload it directly and kind of go through the whole flow. So that's what we've built and that's what we're working on. And I'm pretty excited about helping kind of drive that change. where they can very quickly arrive in that new world. That's how it feels like.

Yeah. You know, I see this tale of 2 stories in this market, which has been really interesting. So I run, on one of my other businesses, I run this live event company called Commerce Roundtable, and it's a direct-to-consumer event. And we recently did a kind of an intimate thing we called the roadshow. We were doing training and education, and we found like the 2 stories, right? You're either on the left side where you're producing 5,000 ads a day and you're deploying 5,000, retiring 4,995, and finding the 5 winning ones. Or you're on the right side and running it, or you're on the other side who is doing nothing with AI. They're terrified of AI. They're scared of AI. And I think it's really interesting because we're kind of going through this market shift and you've done a great job kind of explaining like the changes that are happening, how, what a marketer is becoming and what the job is becoming. And obviously with SuperScale, some of the things that you guys are working on is really helping these guys accelerate and be better at creating some advertising Creatives and really doing it at scale faster, right? Like not getting the hiccups of going in. And you're absolutely right. If you wanted to go to Claude or ChatGPT or whatever model that you want to use, you can do a lot of the things that I'm sure SuperScale can do for you. It just takes a heck of a lot longer. You're bridging the gap of time, which is the only element that is the hardest part and the memory and everything else that comes with it. And if you're not super techie, right, it's much harder to do. If you know what you're doing with this stuff, like for example, I come with the tech background, I tend to like to do my own stuff, code my own things, create my own things. But most people in the world don't have that ability. And the reality is you've got to use a tool that is designed for it. And I think these verticalized tools that are happening in AI, and just like we talked about one of your investments, Lovable, it's a perfect example of a company that is still sitting on top of somebody. And I'm sure they're going to eventually create their own backend.

Absolutely.

But today they can do the things that you can do on it, but they have made it easier, simpler, faster, Better, all that good stuff that comes into it. Well, Patrick, this was fantastic here. I think we got a really good understanding. I think there was a really good lens when we're thinking about the shift of what a marketer's job is. I actually like that marketer's job is getting rewritten with AI right now. I think that is really what we're learning here. But ultimately, where can they find you online? I'm sure you're online. You're talking about this stuff. Where's the best place? Is it LinkedIn? Is that where people find you?

LinkedIn, LinkedInX. I recently just started a YouTube channel, but very small. still, but people can still check in. I had a crazy experience. I had, I, you know, created my first video and then I used an agent to edit it. So, I mean, even in that area, you know, there's a lot happening there.

Oh yeah.

So that was nice. No, but LinkedIn and X is where I'm very active. And then obviously superskill.ai is our company. So yeah, and we spend a lot of time, you know, thinking about exactly these workflows. We share kind of videos and even, you know, work with experts on kind of content around it. We really wanna make it possible for people to kind of, you know, elevate themselves in that way, right? I really believe in a future where, you know, humans don't get replaced by AI. I find that pretty sad kind of framing, right? I really believe in like, you can elevate yourself, you can create a new job for yourself and do the job differently with agents and be much more successful. And so I think that's a beautiful way of looking at things and the potential here.

Yeah.

And you've been around long enough, just like I have. I've been on the internet for 20+ years doing this thing. You've seen it. I remember when, The first dot-com thing came up and designers were like, oh my God, this new digital design thing is gonna— is not— is terrible. And the handwritten, it's the same thing. I'm sure when the horse and carriage went over to the cars, it was the same thing.

Exactly.

This is just evolution, guys. And we talk about it a lot on this pod. Like, AI is here, it's changing. We're still, in my humble opinion, like at the GeoCities phase of AI right now. When it comes down to it, we've got a long way to go. Robotics is coming, hardware is coming. There's so much Cool stuff that's coming to horizon, and you know you're listening to this pod most likely because you want to know about the latest and cutting edge. AI is also important. Go follow Patrick. We're going to put all his information in the description below so you can check this out. But thank you for joining us from Amsterdam here and joining our pod here. We thank you for your time here. Thank you all for listening, and with that being said, this is a wrap. We'll see you next week. See you guys later.

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