How to Turn First-Time Buyers into Repeat Customers with Email and SMS - EP9
In this episode of the "Send It" podcast, host Jimmy Kim and co‑host Chase Diamond discuss practical strategies for converting first‑time e‑commerce buyers into repeat customers using email and SMS. They begin by emphasizing the financial importance of repeat purchases, noting that loyal customers can generate up to 67 % more revenue than new ones. The conversation then walks through the full post‑purchase journey: order confirmation, shipping notifications, product‑use tutorials, and follow‑up check‑ins, highlighting how real‑time delivery data can trigger timely messages. They explore segmentation tactics, especially RFM (recency, frequency, monetary) analysis, and how to differentiate first‑time versus repeat buyers, subscription‑ready customers, and high‑AOV segments. Loyalty tactics such as discount codes, early‑access offers, and gamified rewards programs are examined, along with the idea of adding physical “bonus” items (e.g., a branded recipe book) to later orders. Content strategy is covered – using educational guides, UGC, and reviews to build authority and community. Timing and frequency are broken down into a concrete timeline (day 0 confirmation, shipping updates, week‑1 usage guide, 2‑3 weeks incentive) while warning against over‑messaging. They mention several tools that facilitate these flows (Malamoo, Wonderment, Omnisend, Appbrew) and discuss deliverability benefits of consistent engagement that can push messages into the primary inbox. Finally, they identify three core metrics for monitoring repeat‑sale success: repeat purchase rate, customer lifetime value (LTV) with RFM‑driven targeting, and overall engagement rates (open, click, positive/negative actions). The episode ends with a call‑to‑action for listeners to subscribe, follow, and tune in for a future BFCM recap.
Chapters
You order from Amazon, sending you emails and text messages. Your package is out for delivery. Your package is at your house. You can track your order. You just cannot wait to get that package. The whole ability around these tools is to A, send the email, and B, know where things are at. And if you can leverage those within your marketing, they're just going to be so excited and they're going to want to buy from you time and time again.
And if you can stay in front of them and give them enough updates, Gmail is going to see and identify you engaging with that brand's email over and over again, and they're more likely going to put you in that primary tab.
As you're building out segments, when you keep track of the delivery and the arrival, you know when they received it, you know how long it's should take to consume it and they're using it how often they're supposed to, that's going to give you very precise ability to run the right campaigns based off when someone should be ready to reorder.
14 to 21, 14 to 30 days. That is when that repeat cycle generally will happen for most brands. All right. Let's wrap this up with some metrics and we'll talk about the 3 metrics to success on monitoring a repeat sale, man, because there's only 3 that matter, in my opinion. That's a big list opening. Looks like your, you know, your rates and everything held pretty good. Actually look great overall.
Yeah, I mean, not bad. And just a lot of people opening, like 43,000 people opened, 1,800 people clicked yesterday, which was like, that's a lot of clicks.
I'm normally getting like— So it's double to triple your average click rate, it looks like.
Yeah, so I think it's gonna like loop back.
Well, I'm just curious if it's positive clicks or negative clicks, 'cause you know, there is a thing called negative clicks where it's not good clicks that you got.
Yeah, I don't know. I know you guys track that on SendLane. I don't know if Klaviyo tracks negative clicks or not. Like a lot of the clicks—
Yeah, they don't really show it, it looks like. Yeah, you're right. They're only showing the visual clicks. Yeah, it's not good. You gotta see the negative clicks. I'm curious what the negative clicks were.
Well, so yeah, so the 1,800, like the actual 1.4 click rate, that was like legitimate clicks on my link. I guess technically the negative clicks would have been the 847, right? Basically people that unsubscribed.
Yeah, I guess that's correct.
Yeah.
Well, you know, there's the whole like people click, but they don't unsubscribe. You know, there's also that element that occurs.
Right. I guess it depends on like where they click because most, most of the people now I gotta imagine are probably like one click to unsubscribe, right? Like with how easy it is.
Yeah.
They're probably clicking down there. Yeah, exactly. And then they're probably out. But yeah, I was, dude, I was pretty happy about how this went.
So I guess because you're not an e-commerce company, Black Friday, if you destroyed something, wouldn't be the worst thing that would happen or something like that. So not that big of a deal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was interesting.
Very cool. Well, we got a lot on this pod today. We're going to jump right into it. 3, 2, 1.
From the open to the click, they're the masters of the flow. Just watch your list grow and your leads turn to go. Did we retain you so far or do we have to extend it? If you want results, you know you got to send it. Yeah. You know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it.
What is up everyone? Welcome to Send It, where we discuss anything and everything retention marketing, specifically in email and SMS marketing in e-commerce. My name is Jimmy Kim and I'm here with my co-host Chase Diamond. What's up Chase? Today we're talking about turning first-time buyers into repeat customers with email and SMS. First of all, we want to give a special shout out and thanks to Apiru and Omnisend for the sponsorship. But Chase, let me start off with I need something hot off the press because, you know, we've been kind of breaking all the cool news. And now that we're past BFCM and things are continuing to change, guess who has a new app?
Who?
That's probably really vague, actually. I should have— guess what email provider has a new app?
Who? Tell me. I'm not sure.
Yahoo. Yahoo is showing back up into the world right now. And they're bringing— they brought their own dedicated mail app now for iOS. And it's beautiful. It's actually really nice. It's very Google and Gmail-esque. They're trying to become more relevant, it looks like. That's super interesting.
I was actually just looking up right now. How many people use Yahoo? I'm curious how big do you think in terms of our market, right? Are they number 2?
Yahoo's interesting, Chase. The thing about Yahoo or Verizon or AOL and all these places is it's a demographic thing. It's not like, you know, when— and I'm going to start dating myself— at my age, I had a Yahoo address before I had a Gmail address, because that was the thing to do back in the early 2000s, right? You had a Yahoo because they were the dominant player at one point. And you know how the story goes with Yahoo is that they had an offer from Gmail to buy them, and they turned down Gmail. And then 4 years later, they got even bigger offer. They turned them down. And then something happened. And then Yahoo fell apart ultimately. But you know, the thing about Yahoo is they're interesting because they service all these little guys like they call the Verizon network, which is like AOL and then Cox now. They do a couple other companies too under them, SPC Global, I think worldwide people are using their kind of like your backend technology to provide like a white label email version for people today.
Interesting. And I actually just looked as of January of this year, they actually had 227 million users. So they're actually bigger than I realized. I knew that they were big. I see them obviously all the time within email.
Yeah, they're bigger on the demographic of the older age demographic. So if you had like a list in like, I don't know, like a 60-plus-year-old like list, you would see a heavy dominance in Yahoo and AOL. Pretty common to see. The younger brands usually have Gmail just because that's become a standard for now. But I do wonder what's going to happen with, uh, whole ChatGPT, OpenAI. Are we going to have like @OpenAI email addresses or omail.com or something one day? Maybe.
All right.
Yeah, maybe.
Interesting.
Well, let's get to the pod today because I know the listeners are waiting here. And I want to talk about something that I think is really fun and exciting because at this moment, everybody has gone through Black Friday, Cyber Monday at this point. We've, you know, some people went for the month, some people went for a week, all that good stuff. And hopefully, if you're listening to the pod, I hope you had a great Black Friday, Cyber Monday. But the reality is, is it's no longer about that. As soon as that happens, it's time to turn the switch and start thinking about those repeat sales. Because I don't know about you, Chase, but most brands, even myself when I was running a brand, the repeat customer is the dollar, right? That's how you actually make money often because you're spending all that money upfront to get the first customer acquisition. Now, I think that people all understand a point of retention marketing or email marketing and SMS marketing often is to get the repeat purchase. But here's the agenda I have today, 'cause I have a bunch of little things I wanna talk about. So we're gonna kind of do a little jump around, but we're gonna first talk about just why is it so important to get the repeat customer? I just mentioned one right there, but I'm sure we can talk more about it. Then we're gonna talk about a little bit more about the journey. We're gonna talk a little bit about the whole welcome and post-purchase and all those little in-between steps that you can take in between. That's those like messagings that you can do. We're gonna talk about where segmentation starts becoming important here. We'll talk about some cool loyalty offers that we've seen in the market. Let's talk about content. I think that's a good one that we can talk about. We should also talk about timing and frequency because I think people are afraid to talk to people fast enough about this stuff. And then of course, how you take social proof and customer reviews and UGC ultimately and put 'em in. And last but not least, we'll end it with some key metrics that we're looking for when you're thinking about it. There's a lot to go over, but I didn't think that anything was more than like a couple minutes. I felt like there could go through a lot. So I wanna kick it off, Chase. Sure. And I'm gonna ask you the first question.
Let's start with the importance of repeat customers.
Chase, tell the people why repeat customers are the most important things that exist, really.
Yeah, for sure. I actually posted this as a tweet on one of my accounts a couple of days ago where I said, I think a loyal customer is worth more than 5 unloyal customers, right? A loyal customer really is going to spend with you time and time again, and they're going to buy product drops, they're going to buy bestsellers, they're just going to buy really anything that you have. And the data shows that repeat customers, kind of loyal customers, spend up to 67% more than new customers. And they're likely, as I mentioned, to make that repeat purchase time and time again, especially if you have things that are going to be consumable or topical, right? You have supplements or hair care or skincare and you get into the flow with your kind of loyal repeat buyers. There's a likelihood that they're buying from you every 3 to 5, every 4 to 6 weeks, right? So that kind of AOV, that LTV of that customer is just worth so much to you. So being able to leverage email and SMS to identify and target and kind of nurture buyers and really turn them into repeat and loyal buyers is really everything.
That's exactly right. And as I mentioned just a few minutes ago, it's the money, right? It's worth where the dollars, the real money and profit comes out of our customers. 'Cause you no longer have to acquire the customer. You just gotta convince them to come back and spend a little bit of money. And when we know that 67% more, they're making a purchase, dude, that should be your indication how important these people are on your email list, especially that segment of customer. Let me go into the next part, which I think about, which is understanding that journey. Now, you know what's interesting, Chase, is that people, when they buy that first time versus a second time of purchase, there's a million reasons why this happens and why people don't buy, right? But the reality is, is that, and I take this and I go back to social media, media just like you did, I have a hot take that always is like this. It's like if you have a good product or a great product, your retention rate's probably going to be there regardless if you send a good email, a bad email, or no email at all. The whole goal of a retention marketer often is to help accelerate that purchase, and that can happen through follow-up and personalization or giving them incentive to accelerate that next sale. So if I'm this hat company or this is BattlBox actually I'm wearing right now, shout out to BattlBox. I'm a subscription company holder, right? I hold a box of the BattlBox I get every month, and when I want to gift it to friends and if I want to make more purchases, Or I want to buy additional things. It only happens because I'm told about it. I would buy from them. I just don't go actively looking for it. That's the reality often about that first-time buyer to that repeat buyer is why do you have to get in front of them is, A, you know, they're a real human, they can spend money. 2, they've purchased your product. So if you have a good product or service, you hope that you can stand on that whole idea and concept that there was a good product or service there. And when you ask for more money, they're thinking about you and say, hey, that product was really great. BattlBoxes are really fun. I'll send one to my dad, for example. It's a great idea for a holiday, for example. Those are the things that I think about. And a lot of times the journey is something that people forget about. Why did they buy? What's the relationship? How do you build the trust? How do you provide value past that initial purchase? And how do you get them to make that second purchase? Now, that to me is getting down to the gritty of understanding what that first-time buyer journey looks like and really just focusing on that. I think people tend to lack a focus on that. In fact, when I think about that, Chase, a lot of times it starts with what your welcome and your post-sequence and post-purchase stuff. Let's talk about that for a little bit here. Let's talk about welcome series because I think you've got a pretty You and flows definitely are hand in hand. I know you always enjoy them. Tell us about a great welcome series flow for new customers, man.
Yeah, arguably one of the most important, right? This really is the beginning of your relationship with the subscribers. This is the first time that you have the ability to welcome them to your brand and kind of be able to introduce like what you stand for and what differentiates yourself, right? So in terms of like onboarding new subscribers, potential customers, that type of thing, essentially the welcome series is a set of emails and/or SMS messages that really introduce some of the brand. the mission, the values, and really build that beyond just a product, right? It's what kind of connects you and really helps you humanize the company. I think that part's so important, right? Being able to show front and center that you aren't just a product, right? You aren't just a company. There are humans behind this company that really deeply care, I know hopefully, about the customers and about the subscribers and about the community. And with that, like, how do you do that? It's by one, telling your brand story. So what makes your brand unique? Is it sustainability? Is it craftsmanship? Is it community? Is it price? Is it the ability to return? Right. Right? What are the things that separate you from the others and make you you? And then what are the things about your product that are useful or helpful, right? What are some tips or tricks or tutorials that a potential buyer or a current buyer could use to make the most of their purchase, right? So for example, if someone buys, let's say, from a skincare brand, and they want to receive emails from you, you should start emailing them about your philosophy, how to use the guide. Maybe you have like an influencer or celebrity that you've partnered with, and they share like their best tips and tricks. This is a really great place to include that, right? So really tailoring the series and the sequence to teaching people how to use it, how to care for it, those types of things is really what differentiates you from the rest of your competitors.
Yeah, man, actually that story about the whole like tips and tutorial, recently I bought this like this automotive thing, it was some paint stuff that I was buying and it's designed basically to change the color when you can spray it and it doesn't have all the hard indications of typically painting because you want to spray something really quick. Well, I bought the stuff and I had no idea what or how to use it. I just bought it because I heard it was easy and the first email that they sent me was all about like this like little tutorials class. And like, I literally sat there and watched it and I got like really into it. I got to meet the guy who made it, their story. They like blended it all in. It was called like Dip Your Car or something like that. And it was really, really cool. And that reminded me because one of the things that really came with that experience and where it came in with me on that conversation was actually on the order confirmation and shipping updates, right? They were sending me these like updates. Oh, your product is shipping. Here's your tracking. By the way, here's the tutorial. And so they use this like intermediary, like conversation part between the point when I purchased and have not received the product to actually get me more into the product and educated and got me ideas going around. And I thought that was really cool. And of course they sent me the SMS. They let me know the product's on the way. They even let me know when the product hit my doorstep and they're like, your product is here. And I was like, oh, didn't even know. My dogs didn't bark, right? So I think that like when you think about a post-purchase flow, you shouldn't forget shipping notifications. That's where I really was going into. And also don't hesitate to share this information around like where your product is and kind of be a little creepy around it because all that information's around and available. In fact, fact, there's some tools that do this stuff for us. What are some tools, Chase? Do you have some on your mind?
Yeah, I'd say there's 2 kind of primary that we use at the agency that kind of stand out. The first one is Malamoo, and the second one is Wonderment. They're both great tools that really help facilitate, frankly, everything that you just mentioned.
Yeah, that's really cool. What else do you have? What else are you thinking about when you're thinking about your welcome and post-purchase sequences?
Yeah, I think what you described to me, like, when I think about that, I think about the Amazon or kind of halo or the Amazon effect, right? Where Yep. You order from Amazon, right? They're really great about sending you emails and text messages and you can go on and track your order and it's just really exciting. You just cannot wait to get that package. So when you're kind of being strung along, and I mean that in a good way, we're being kind of strung along of like, your package is out for delivery, your package is at your house. It just consciously and subconsciously creates this like really exciting endorphin rushing experience. It's adrenaline where it's like, oh my God, it's almost here. Oh, it's here, right? And you just get that excitement and especially if it gets there quick. And that's why I think about Amazon, right?
I've got Amazon showing up at my door all the time, as I do most people.
Cool, right? So with that, the whole product arrival and kind of usage things, sending the emails once people get the product because you know that it's delivered, right? The whole ability around these tools is to A, send the email, and B, know where the heck the things are at. And if you can leverage those within your marketing to be like, hey Jimmy, I know that you just got the product, and if you have any questions, we're standing by, right? Just something simple like that for an SMS, like just to let them know that, hey, the conversation's open, the door's open. Maybe for whatever reason you get this notification that something's there and only part of your order's there, right? Now that you've opened up the conversation saying, hey Jimmy, let us know if you have any questions, let us know if you need anything, You could just reply back pretty quickly and be like, hey Chase, thanks for reaching out. Wanted to let you know I only got one or two of the items. And then maybe me as the company, I can be like, oh, by the way, so sorry, the second item's gonna be there wherever, here's your tracking, right? So just being proactive and being able to tell people where things are at and being able to even use some of these notifications and some of these tools to help mitigate where the heck something's at. 'Cause there's no worse feeling, right, than being like, your product's here and only partially it's there when you thought it was gonna all be there. So just being able to leverage this for, for feedback and for tips and tricks and being able to alert people and keep them in the loop. I think that's a great way to just build that, again, that conscious or subconscious excitement. And it's really going to be tied to your brand. And if you do that, the next time they order for you, they're going to get that same kind of feeling. And every time they do that, if you build this pattern, they're just going to be so excited and they're going to want to buy from you time and time again.
What's up guys? I'm excited to talk to you about our sponsor, Appbrew. Appbrew is for brands that are scaling. A great way to add loyalty and retention is to launch a mobile app for your store. And Appbrew can help you drive conversions and growth with performance-driven mobile apps. With Appbrew, you don't need to worry about the lengthy development times or coding headaches. They make it really easy to create an app that connects to your customers and drives sales. In fact, they're trusted by some of the fastest growing e-commerce brands with focus on delivering fast, responsive, and beautiful apps that enhance customer engagement and retention. Please go check them out at appbrew.com and let 'em know that Jimmy sent ya. Dude, I love that. I think that the whole encouragement of kind of increasing the customer satisfaction and reducing returns ultimately is what you're going after here. And, You are building brand because you're able to, even though you're just communicating, the brand now is this helpful brand, is this communicative brand, this company that cares, right? All of these feelings and thoughts start to come through, which is what you're kind of nailing on. In fact, one of my favorite things that I really love to do is always ask for feedback. I know we ask for reviews and different things, but you know, one of the things, ways that I go after people is just ask for the feedback after a couple days of delivery. What do you think about the product? Does it feel heard, concerned, all that good stuff that comes into place? So those are definitely things that I think about. As we continue on, on this thing, let's talk about segmentation a little bit more. Now I know that we have some basic ones and we've talked about in other pods, but let's give everybody a little quick teaser reminder of good segmentation for personalized communication.
Yeah, for sure. And one other thing I actually just thought about too, like when you keep track of the delivery and the arrival and all these tips, and as you're building out segments, which kind of ties into here, yeah, you basically can also too, like, and the fact if it's a consumable or topical, you also too can build out like your replenishment flows or your subscription asks, right? You push them for a subscription because you know when they received it, you know how long it should take to consume it. So therefore, if you, if you teach people actually how to use it and they're using it daily or how often they're supposed to, that's gonna give you like very precise ability to run the right automations and potentially the right campaigns based off when someone should be ready to reorder. So I think there's like just so much power there for segmentation and automation and otherwise. But really kind of getting to the question that you asked. So in terms of like the 2 kind of big camps here, right, we're kind of focusing this on customers now. There's the first-time buyer, right? And then there's the repeat buyer.
Mm-hmm.
So someone's bought once, someone's bought more than once. And, and with this, I think if you segment them 2 different ways, right? If you treat the first-time buyers as one group and then the repeat buyers as another group, obviously, right, you can go more granular for the repeat. You can go people that have subscriptions, people that have bought twice, one-offs. You could do like a whole host of things. But by sending them different types of messaging and sending them different types of communications and offers is really important, right? Because the repeat people, sure, they're going to want certain things that the first-time buyers are going to want, but they're going to have different needs, right? They have similar wants, but the needs are different. So you can pinpoint those and speak to those and figure out what did we do well over here in this group of repeat buyers? Whatever we did. Let's extract those things and apply those to the first-time people to take them from first-time to repeat. And then over here on the repeat, let's just keep doing more of what's working and let's try new strategies to kind of keep getting them to buy time and time again like they have in the past. It's going to be a little bit easier though.
Dude, you're talking my language. We're talking RFM here— recency, frequency, and monetary analysis. Ultimately, basically, you want to identify and figure out how to make it— what made them the customer and then how to get those people to repeat, right? Like, the idea of simply taking your customers and splitting them up on repeat customers is great, but then it's the next layer of thinking about it. And People ask me, how do I go segment more? Now it's time to start using how many times they purchased. Then we take how often do they purchase and then how much they purchase. So a clothing brand segmenting buyers who spent more than $100 on their first purchase, you should be sending them something different as a loyalty offer because they're more likely to spend more money than that person who spent $20 on a discount hat or something like that, right? There's so much you have to think about when you're personalizing it, but that's important, right? Like those immediate early messages. And this is where I think it gets important, Chase, is like we're talking about, and I think we're talking the same thing, Like we're talking about identifying these people in real-time segmentation as fast as possible. If they're coming down after they've made a purchase, we know, hey, this is their second purchase. They've spent a lot of money. We should be sending them these offers or these messages versus someone who just has made their very first purchase. And maybe even when you look at that first purchase and say they're a low AOV customer, they didn't spend a lot of dollars with me. My goal on a low, let's say, okay, my AOV is $100, but I have a $50, sub-$50 AOV funnel. For example, anyone who comes in there sub-$50, all I'm worried about and focusing on is getting a second and sale as fast as possible to get them to the $100. So I might be more aggressive with those segments of people in my funnel, trying to get the repeat sale versus a $100 customer, or let's say a $150 customer, because now they're over my $100. I might nurture them and offer them loyalty and build the brand and gooeyness and goodness between us before I ask for the next purchase, right? Those welcome flow changes can create such a different impact on services because, you know, Chase, if you spend a lot on a business, you want that feeling of feeling exclusive and personalized and have loyalty ultimately to them. them, right?
100%.
Well, tell me about that. Let's go right into that because that's the next part of this topic here. We're talking about loyalty and exclusive incentives, man. When do you like to do that? What are your thoughts around exclusive offers and loyalty? Not for everybody, but for the people who are at either the highest tier or maybe the lowest tier, whatever it might be.
Yeah, let's talk about 2 things. Let's focus on people that bought once, trying to get them to buy a second time. Okay, first thing is some kind of discount or special offer, right? They need some incentive. And I say need— most of the times they need kind of— not always, but some kind of incentive to get that second purchase, right? Let's say it could be something as simple as like a free shipping code, or it could be something more like a 15% off, let's say. And obviously, like, every brand is going to have different margins. Every brand is going to have different thoughts on, you know, the level and the deepness of discount. So those are just examples, right? It could be $10 off, it could be 10% off. We're just using placeholders, but trying to get someone to buy that second time like we were talking about with some kind of incentive or offer is super important, right? So it could be something as simple as post-purchase after they've received the item, maybe like a week or two later. Hopefully they're enjoying at that point. Thanks again for the second order, Jimmy. Wanted to hook you up with 15% off your next one. Thanks for being a part of our family. Right. And then depending on what happens is they use it great. Now they're a repeat buyer. If they don't use it, having some kind of follow-up like, hey Jimmy, I hope you're still loving the product you bought from us. Wanted to follow up on that 15% off that we sent you last week. Let us know if you have any questions. Here are 3 things that we think you're really going to love based off what we know about you. Right. And then start recommending specific products to be able to kind of cross-sell and upsell and maybe even get people to take you up on a bundle with a discount type of a thing. I think that's super important. Another one I think about too is like introducing kind of your loyalty program early on, right? So after someone buys from you, start introducing them to the concept of the more that you buy, the more that you're going to save, you're going to start earning rewards along the way, really just gamifying it and really making them feel that like the more they spend and the more that they do with you, the more loyalty and rewards and the more points or coupon credit they're going to have. I think that's a really great way to be able to build like that brand affinity versus someone buying a t-shirt from like 6 different companies. What if you make it really special? When they buy t-shirts from you, they get all these other things that like don't apply or cross-transfer to other companies. And I think like when you think about, let's say for apparel, there's very few moats, right? Everyone's selling the same t-shirt that I'm wearing. There's 1,001 companies selling it. They're all selling it at similar prices. They're all similar material. But at the end of the day, say for example, I bought this one from a company called Built. Say Built, for example, say they have me on this loyalty rewards program where because I already bought once, I'm starting to get things that I wouldn't get otherwise at other companies or things that I wouldn't get prior to my first purchase, right? Almost unlocking kind of this secret door to the BILT kind of VIP loyalty program that I can't enter that same door other people unless I make that first purchase. But that first purchase is always scary. You already made that first purchase with me. I want to keep you, right? I want to retain you. So just think about it that way. Like if you're a physical establishment, right? Think about your online brand as a physical establishment, right? Once you get people in that door, what are the things that you can do to keep them in your company versus getting them to go to your competitor next door? It could be things like when they come in, you greet them and you remember their name and you offer them based off what drink or food item they ordered in the past. You have that maybe ready when they get there, right? I think that that's such an easy way to like do that comparison is think about like you as a customer within a physical place. What are the things that someone can do for you to really make you feel welcome, right? Maybe you come in with your jacket, they ask to put your jacket on a coat hanger, right? They remember your name and your drink saying, hey Jimmy, do you still want this drink? Or whatever it might be, right? Based off you last time, you have $10 in rewards. Just really being able to surprise and delight you so that way you always want to come back to them versus the competitor next door.
Sure. No, that makes total sense. And, you know, as you're talking about that, it reminded me of mobile apps. I mean, I think that's another thing that we should be thinking about is a thing that loyalty does and works really well with is to give them an outlet or a place or a special channel that they as a VIP customer could access. And I think Appbrew does this where you can like have like membership ultimately on their mobile apps. And it's a great way to think about it. In fact, one of the ways that I think about the connection beyond even a mobile app is the value of content that you can throw out there in that mobile app or on your website or on a YouTube channel or wherever you can put on it. But I think though, big place, and people talk about this all the time, right? Value beyond a product. I'm talking about content ultimately. And people often get stumbled up on this idea of like, how do I use email to share educational content? The reality is it's really easy. Guides, tutorials, care blogs. If you're like a coffee brand and you send a guide about brewing methods or recommended accessories to enhance the coffee experience, dude, that's exactly what people want. They look at you when they buy a product like this as an expert ultimately, right? You're the expert of coffee. Coffee ultimately, which is why I'm buying from you because you are the manufacturer. Now, can I have that coffee tell me what I need to be doing, right? And then there's also like social proof. I think one of the things that, you know, people miss out is kind of gloating and talking about yourself a lot, right? As a brand, it's nice when you can get other people to talk about you, which is all what reviews and social commenting really is. But then you take that information and you share it out because what you're ultimately doing, and people don't recognize it, when you share your testimonials and you use your generated content, you're actually helping people building your Community, right? Your community doesn't have to exist in like a Facebook group or like an Instagram group or whatever it might be. It can actually live in social media, for example, right? You have a community of people that are followers of your product and they just are so proud to use your product or they love your product so much that they're willing to go post things on social media. And so like using things of community and value, that's some of the things that I think about. As we keep going, Chase, the next thing I think about a little bit is timing and frequency a little bit. I think you have a lot on this because timing and frequency matter a lot, especially with just the holidays went through, but even after the holidays, some of the things that come in. Tell me about balance, man. Tell me what your thoughts on balance around finding the right timing looks like.
Yeah, I'd love to. And one thing actually, just combining the last 2 things we said, one thing I just thought about with the loyalty example I talked about, and then the content stuff that you talked about specifically, like the kind of the guides, the tutorial, I think like one great thing, for example, if you are a coffee company or some kind of food company or whatever, beverage company, I think one really cool thing that you could do, right, is when a customer makes that repeat purchase, a digital tutorial guide, do Dude, imagine if within that purchase that they made, like that second purchase that was a high AOV purchase, or that third purchase, whatever, you actually included like a physical recipe book or a physical kind of book within their order.
Ooh, I like that.
Some kind of book with your brand that kind of talks about like, or even just talks about like coffee in the winter and kind of talks about like some of the seasons or whatever that would include. And then like within there, right, you obviously have like some product placement and you have some cool things that you guys are working on and kind of whatnot. But I think that's like a really cool thing too, right, is like making something tangible and physical that they didn't necessarily pay for or order, but is related to what they ordered, that's just like a lifestyle type thing that lives within their living room or within their bookshelves, that's about your company and about the content and the education of whatever it might be. I think that would be really cool, right? So you talked about a coffee brand sending a guide about brewing methods. Turn that into like a really simple kind of pamphlet that you send out that looks good and is visual and has your branding. Like, I think that is a really cool touch that like I haven't really seen anyone frankly do. Special thanks to our sponsor Omnisend. They're an all-in-one email and SMS marketing automation platform built specifically for e-commerce brands like yourself. They make it super easy to engage your customers, drive repeat sales, and create those seamless personalized experiences that we talk about all the time on the podcast. And they have over 125,000 e-commerce merchants around the world. And it's no surprise why. They're best in class and they have an incredible track record. They actually have a 4.8 stars out of 5 from over 5,800 different companies and reviews on the App Store in terms of Shopify. Merchants love them for their powerful features, their intuitive design, and their really easy ability to unify email and SMS strategies that are going to boost your conversions and engagement ultimately. So if you want to take your SMS and your email marketing to the next level, check out Omnisend. They've got the tools, the automation, and the expertise to help your brand grow and thrive. Go over to omnisend.com to learn more and let them know that we sent you.
No, I haven't. I've never seen that. That's such a good idea. If you're a loyalty company listening to this pod right now and you're thinking about cool ideas, man, there's one right there. How do you identify users in real time and add a physical product into the actual existing box. And this could be all sorts of complicated. This is way beyond my head, but there's gotta be a way to identify and distribute a very special product based around each purchase. Maybe second purchase, they get this, third purchase, they get this, fourth purchase, they get that. Like, dude, that would be so cool because people love getting free things. And you're right, if you're talking about social sharing and building community, God, anyone gets something for free, you know how it is, Chase, when you get something for free, you just wanna shout on the roof about it.
Yes.
Because you're just so happy, even though it might've just been this little pen For example.
Yeah, for sure. And I know it's off topic, but reeling us back in. So timing and frequency, I think, is where we were.
Yes.
Yes.
Let's talk about timing. How do we find that balance? Yeah.
So in terms of finding that balance, again, like you want to make sure that you're persistent and consistent but not annoying, right? You don't want to overwhelm your customers. You want to avoid overwhelming your customers, right? So as a, as an example timeline, again, this could be plus or minus a couple of days. It could be a little bit different for every single person, but sure. Day 0, essentially the day of purchase, right? You're going to have to send an order confirmation, email, SMS, whatever the preferred channel as whatever information that you have. Make sure that you send an order confirmation or else people are going to be confused. Like, did that order go through? They're going to go check their credit card. They're going to be confused if you don't send this, right? This is a non-negotiable. Then from there, right, within the first couple days of someone receiving or making that purchase, they should receive shipping updates. So it could be via SMS, email, etc. SMS is cool because it's pretty easy. Email is a great alternative if not. And then from there, right, about a week out, right, so about a week after someone's received the delivery, so someone has the item in hand, teach them to use it. Teach them how to use it, especially if it's an expensive or complicated or confusing product, teach them how to use the product and really just check in, right? How are things going? Wanted to check in. Hope you're enjoying it. Hit us up with any questions. And then I'd say like the last one there would be, you know, somewhere between like 2 to 3 weeks out after someone actually has item in hand, it's been delivered, give them some kind of incentive via email or SMS to make that next purchase, right? So assuming someone bought from you once, give them some of that incentive to buy that second time. If someone had bought more than once, give them an incentive to repeat buy or give them some exclusive offer to come back and make another purchase, right? So with that, right, like you're going to hopefully, A, make sure that you give the non-negotiable points that someone's going to need to receive and want to receive. And you're going to make sure that you're not being overbearing or overloading them with a daily email, for example. There's no reason that you need to send them a daily email right after they buy. Spread it out, space it out, send them just enough, but don't send them too much.
You know what's funny about as you were talking all over that is my head went to Dylan deliverability because, you know, the first message that comes out of your system as fast as you can will be something that someone searches for in their inbox, right? They want their confirmation order, for example. And if you can stay in front of them and give them enough updates, they will continue opening and engaging with that email every day if you're sending them a shipping notification, for example, or whatever that message is. And the key I think that's really important is 2 things. One, it's great for deliverability to have someone continue to open and engage it. But 2, you know, the magical primary box that everybody wants to get into, the way you get into a primary box is to send information messages that people want to open and read. And in this case, if you can get them hooked, Gmail is going to see and identify you engaging with that brand's email over and over again. And they're more likely going to put you in that primary tab because they want to get this message in front of you because you've been so engaged with it over the last couple of days. So there's 2 little tips. In fact, that leads me to the next part of this thought process about timing. One thing I thought about was one of my favorite things I talk about, which is SMS timing, right? SMS timing is all about now-in-time communication, exclusivity, exclusive access, FOMO, closing Like those are things that work really well. And I think when you're thinking about what you just said, and I totally agree with you on the timing, 14 to 21, 14 to 30 days, like that is when that repeat cycle generally will happen when it does happen for most brands and services, unless you have a more expensive product, a replenishable, whatever it might be. But that's usually what it does. Now, this is where I think it's so important. Yes, you should be sending those emails for second purchase, but don't forget to use SMS where it can be useful, right? If you have a coupon that's in your flow through your post-delivery purchase flow, for example, make sure you're tacking on SMS 6 days in, 4 days in, whenever that expiration, that coupon is, and letting him know that it's time to make this purchase or make that second purchase. And if you have someone who enjoyed your product, most likely you'll be able to pull them forward and make that sale, right? That's ultimately your goal is you want to give them that access. You want them to feel special, especially because they've just recently purchased. Like just to say, hey, you're just a new customer. You're getting early access to our weekend sale. Act fast, stock is limited, right? I don't know how truthful all that is, but if you had been able to identify that and send a message like that, people do feel like they've got something special. Because they get it, right? Like you are trying and that's what really comes down to. I feel like half the battle, Chase, is that people just want to know that you're trying and you really give a crap about who's on the other side. Do you agree on that?
100%. Yes.
All right. And then the last thing that I think about before we get into metrics, because I think it's something you have to think about, is don't forget, it's not only asking for the sale, but it's also asking for something else. The review, getting the UGC, right? Getting the customer to tell you and feel value, feel heard. Like these are the things you want. Or if it's a negative experience, it gives you a chance to get in there and fix it for them before they get upset and go rant and rave on the internet. So for me, the more you can ask a person, the faster you ask the person, it's important. But I think best practice, I think, is what, 14 days after they've received a product is what it comes down to. I think that depends on what kind of product you have. If it's like a consumable, like a piece of candy, you can ask them in a day, in my opinion, right? People don't wait 14 days to eat a piece of candy. But if it's like, if it's like a luggage set or something, it might take a little bit more time. Any tips and tricks on getting customer reviews that you've seen?
I agree with you, Ryan. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think like a plain text message or a plain kind of email from a founder community manager type thing, just being able to ask for that review, especially if you're a small business, sharing like what a review means to you and how important it is, I think it really goes a long way. So I would kind of lean on those types of things.
Like, I love that. I love a direct response founder, like plain text email. There's nothing better. I love that the market always thinks that it's so new and extraordinary every time someone figures it out. So we'll be like, I just discovered the newest and greatest hack. It was a plain text I'm like, dude, welcome to 2009. We've been doing this forever. It's just something that this world has never seen because they've been so brand-centric and design-centric, right? All right, let's wrap this up with some metrics, Chase. So I'll let you do the first one and we'll talk about the 3 metrics to success on monitoring a repeat sale, man, because there's only 3 that matter in my opinion.
Yeah, I think the obvious one that stands out to me is like the repeat purchase rate. Like everything we're talking about now is how to get someone to buy time and time again. So being able to track and monitor, like how many first-time buyers are making that second purchase, right? How often and how frequently? And are they doing that right or are they not? If they're not doing it, you got a problem. If they are doing it right, you're on the right track. And then it's like, how do you go from a 10% repeat purchase rate to 25% or 50% or whatever that right metric is, obviously, right? Like it's never going to be 100%, but trying to get it as close to the industry average and then some is—
Yeah, I think that's about 30%, Chase. I think that's what people are aiming for. And that's a good rate, man. If you get 1 in 3 people to come back to make a second Second purchase.
That's pretty strong. Yeah. What do you got? What are you thinking about?
I'm thinking about lifetime value, customer lifetime value, because that's what I care about most, right? Measuring that data, using that data to create and encourage repeat, like I talked about earlier, using RFM, and ultimately taking the monetary side of it ultimately and making decisions to message people things. If they're a low lifetime value and they don't buy your, even your average AOV, be more aggressive, message them. You've got to go attack those people because that's the numbers that are dragging you down while you've got these great customers on the other side that you need nurture and value because they're probably going to spend even more money with you because it's highly likely. Close this out with the third one here, Chase.
Yeah, I'd say this one's applicable to this episode and kind of in general, right? Engagement rates. What are the open rates, the click-through rates, the positive, the negative kind of actions that someone's taking within the email? And right, the higher the engagement in terms of the positive things, the stronger retention, the higher likelihood that someone is going to repeat buy. So making sure that you're following best practices, focusing on deliverability, using the right copy and design to really motivate and inspire, and also to coming up with the right Strategic offers around product bundling and discounts and incentives, all those types of things really do play in.
Yep, absolutely, man. I love that. All right, well, dude, that was a lot. We went through a lot there, but I felt like that was really good. I felt like there was a lot of good conversation, tips and tricks around just focusing on the repeat purchase. I know it's like a simple topic and idea, but dude, truly, the reason why we should all be— anyone who's a retention marketer listening to the whole reason job exists is for this one reason, to get first-time buyers to become repeat buyers. Everything else that we do, pop-ups and this and that, the reality is that's like auxiliary things about the job. But the reality is, is this is the main core principle of what it means to be a retention marketer, of basically getting someone to make another purchase. Anyways, well, with that, that's a wrap, dude. If you enjoyed this podcast today, please make sure you subscribe, follow, leave us a rating on your favorite podcast listening platform. If you're on YouTube, make sure you give it a big thumbs up and leave us a comment down below. You can find this show on X, LinkedIn, YouTube, IG, TikTok, etc. And there's a few ways to connect with us. First and foremost, we have a newsletter because we wouldn't be good email marketers if we didn't have one. So you can follow our newsletter. It's at ecomemailmarketer.com. We drop newsletters only about retention marketing each and every week. Check the show notes, check below, check some typing here. You can find the link if you can't figure out how to find us. And then secondly, you can follow us personally on social. Chase, where do they find you?
I'm on most platforms at this point. So Chase Diamond, no A in Diamond, search for me. And hopefully you find me.
Yeah. And you can even find him on Threads. So that's the greatest thing that I know. And then of course you can find me on LinkedIn and X. Special thanks to Appbrew and Omnisend for being a sponsor of this pod. All right. Next week, next week we're gonna continue to go and I wanna dive into BFCM. I wanna do a recap and breakdown with you. Maybe some of the cool sales we saw, some of the things that we saw in this market. I think we'll have enough time by then to be able to break into and talk about it. I'm hoping that we saw something cool that we can talk about. Maybe we didn't see anything. We'll talk about it. Sound good?
Sounds good, man. Looking forward to it.
All right, brother. I'll talk to you soon, man. Have a good one, and we'll see you on the next episode.
From the open to the click, they're the masters of the flow. Just watch your list grow and your leads turn to go. Did we retain you so far, or do we have to extend it? If you want results, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it. Yeah, you know you gotta send it.
