🏡💰 Taylor Smith Reveals The Secrets To Securing Funding In Today's Real Estate Market!

What's up, you guys? Welcome back to the podcast. It's another live Thursday 4:00 PM podcast, the New and Experienced Investor Podcast. I'm one of your hosts. I'm Alex Barnett. I'm the new guy.

And I'm Joe Homs. I guess that makes me the experienced guy.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah, over 40 years, they say.

Yeah, that's what they say.

That's what they say.

And I feel it every night too.

Oh no, just gotta do some stretches, that's all. Not a big deal. Yeah, so this is the podcast that brings, uh, real estate investors from all walks of life together. Isn't that cool?

That is cool.

Okay, nice. We have another guest in studio. I don't know how we're doing it. We're getting the coolest guests to come here into the studio out of their busy day It's insane.

Insane. A special, special guest.

Yes. And, um, I don't, I don't think you guys realize because all these, all these people are investors, you know, they got lives to live and they're coming here to drop some knowledge for you. So I want you guys to jump in the chat, drop some questions, comments, all that stuff. Make sure to share the stream with your friends far and wide. Uh, before we, before we bring him in, let's go ahead and talk about our meetup that we have coming up on Monday.

We have a live meetup coming up on Monday, Hangar 24, 6 PM. Um, especially if you're new, we invite you to come because we want to help new people out. Yeah, so please show up. Hopefully it's not going to rain.

Yeah, yeah, you can't tell these days, but this one's going to be special because we're going to be roasting the newbies.

Yes, that's why I said we want the newbies.

I'm just kidding.

No, we're going to do a stand-up and connect, which is basically we're going to have people come And you're gonna have the mic, so you're gonna get your, you know, 15 minutes of fame here. You're gonna stand up in front and let everybody know what you need in your business currently. And then also, if you have something, you know, that can maybe solve other people's problems, you can drop it there. And the whole thing is to connect.

Connect.

Yeah, because a lot of times we'll have a speaker and then you try to bounce around, there's not, there's not enough time.

Yeah.

So this is going to be really focused on the networking, which is, um, you know, something that is huge.

That's why we're there.

Business.

Yeah, that's why we're there.

That's this whole thing.

Yeah. And we also have a webinar on Saturday at 3 PM. It's on Meetup, and my broker is going to show you how to use the Pelika website to search for on-market properties to potentially flip. And it's going to be very interesting.

Oh yeah.

So, um, yeah, it's, it's going to be a good resource for you.

And it's, it's free.

And it's free.

So all you guys complaining about PropStream, I don't want to hear it anymore. Okay, this is— we got a free thing right here.

Free.

You can make that money, then you can pay for the other softwares. Yeah, but let's go ahead and jump right in. We have a very special guest We'll just let him introduce himself. Taylor Smith, how's it going?

Good. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Absolutely. Thank you again. Yeah. For joining us. Why don't you go ahead and kind of jump into how you got into real estate, what you were doing before?

Yeah, sure thing. I had kind of a non-traditional path into this world. My background is mostly actually in the wine industry prior to getting into real estate.

Nice.

So I had experience working as a sommelier, experience working with some well-known wine brands from France and here in the US representing those luxury properties. Got into winemaking myself, farming, started a winery with a good friend of mine. However, COVID tended, as it did tend to do for a lot of folks, created some difficulties. And then additionally, if you remember the catastrophic wildfires we had up in Northern California in 2020, Wiped out our harvest in our first year of farming.

Oh my God.

So kind of prompted one of those come-to-Jesus moments of, all right, what's next? And had an opportunity. I had already been working in lending a bit on the side, collaborating with a good friend of mine, and he gave me the invitation like, come on, let's do this full-time. And so I had an interest also in treasury securities and the bond market and kind of how all that works, how interest rates work. And so that kind of underlying curiosity was what also led to me getting involved in it with that kind of underlying understanding of how these mortgage products are priced and how they fluctuate with the market. So a little bit of a nerding out just in my free time.

Yeah.

Well, this is an industry I love. I'm good at it. I understand it. And so let's dive in headfirst. So I did. And that move from part-time to full-time was about 3 and a half years ago. So yeah, it's been great.

Amazing. Yeah, that's a story for a lot of people where just that time, you know, kind of pivoted people's whole life. Yeah, mine included.

Not— I'm a little disappointed. Not you, but the producer told me that Taylor Swift was going to be here.

I know. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Taylor Smith. Do you get that a lot?

You know, that's the first time I've heard that.

Oh my gosh, really? She's a Swiftie, and maybe I heard her talking about something.

It was just a little joke.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, well, anyways, how long has that joke been going on?

3 and a half years. So tell us about your current business and what it is that you're doing and all about that.

Yeah, certainly. So we're set up as a broker. That gives us the ability to do pretty much anything. And so while it's been tempting to create a bank for ourselves to capture more margin or become more of an independent operation and make more money and build our team and have our own business, it's very attractive that Proposition. We've found that it's beneficial for us, especially in the market conditions right now, to align ourselves with a big broker who has access to a ton of different lenders with a ton of different products. And so for that reason, we're with C2.

We love it.

It's great. It allows us, you know, to use also the volume relationships that C2 has to get preferential pricing, to get preferential turn times. And so we stay nimble and we stay available for just about any type of scenario that comes up. So for that, FHA loans, VA loans, government loans, anything, USDA, all that stuff, got access to it. Someone comes in, wants to do an investment DSCR purchase, great, no problem. No income, stated income, all the exotic types of products, we've got it. Mobile homes, hard money. So that's kind of how we've set ourselves up to succeed is to be able to solve complex problems. And then just kind of given the way that I think, the way that my teammate Jared thinks, we pride ourselves on being complex problem solvers. So we enjoy when those crazy deals come our way that are like, hey, I'm having trouble getting this done because— Whatever reason, deals falling apart. We like to get into it, get into the weeds and really think about how can we restructure this to get it done and possibly restructure it to get it done in a way that's even better than the way it was structured before.

Yeah.

So that's, that's kind of how we're set up.

So real quick, the difference between what you do as a mortgage broker and somebody that works, let's say, at Chase, Doing loans would be that you do, you can do 10 times more than they can do.

Um, uh, potentially even more than 10 times, Joe.

Okay.

Okay.

So, uh, Chase is gonna have their products. And by the way, Chase is a fantastic lender.

Yeah.

For the right clients, Chase is excellent. Um, for anybody who's looking for jumbo loans and has, uh, squeaky clean credit, putting a lot of money down, um, or they have a lot of assets already with Chase, they're gonna get, um, you know, something pretty great. And so we've got connections at Chase, at U.S. Bank, at Citi, at any of these big banks. And whenever we get a client who's better suited, we don't want to try to steal the deal. We want to be that Swiss Army knife option that's like, hey, I know somebody else is going to be better for you, and here's a warm introduction to them. And in the end, it works out. They're going to get somebody who's got a bank statement loan that they can't do.

Yeah.

But the way that we're different, I'd say, is in the variety of products we can offer. So if someone goes to Chase and says, well, I'm self-employed for a year, you know, they're gonna be like, ah, sorry, I can't do that. So yeah, you, you could, you could break it down into like big banks, like the ones we've talked about who are gonna be right for a certain type of client. You're gonna have credit unions who are gonna be right also for a certain type of borrower. And that's typically gonna be a similar type, which is gonna be, you know, at least 20% down, single-family home. They are, you know, 800 credit score. They already do with this credit union and they're entering a deal where they can close in 60 days. You know, right now that's really tough because of the, how the market is. And so most buyers and agents are looking for closing in 21 days or less.

Mm-hmm.

And so that's a huge advantage that a broker, which, you know, is another category that I would add to that list, which is what we are, might have in that we have 100 different lenders that all have differing turn times. But we're intimately familiar with them and we have connections at each of them. We can constantly check, hey, what are your turn times? Are we going to be able to close this deal in a week? You know, if we need to. And so we can move things around, take it where we need to take it to make sure, you know, it fits the criteria of the deal. And then the last one I would add to that list would be like a direct lender. And these are going to be lenders who set themselves up as like the Kind of like their own bank, but they might have like a warehouse line of credit where they fund the loans with their own proprietary products that they offer. And then they capture, you know, more of that margin on top of it. And, and that's, um, uh, you know, like the loan depos of the world.

Right.

So each of them come with their own strengths, um, and their own weaknesses. Um, and so that's, that's kind of why we, we want to position ourselves as like, uh, an authority on mortgage, period. And so if you come to us with your scenario, your contract that you're in, whatever, if we can't do it, or well, there's almost no chance we can't do it. If we know we can't be the best on it, we've got somebody for you. And that's what creates long-term business for us, 'cause people trust us and they know, oh, well, if he can't do it, I know he's gonna hook me up with somebody who can.

Right.

Nice.

Yeah. And what are you seeing as far as, you know, you know, the interest rates went up, everybody was running around like they're, you know, chickens with their heads off. Um, where did you— what did you guys see as far as the products you were mostly, you know, using at that time, or people were coming to you? What, what, what was the change in the shift?

Yeah, it's been a huge shift. And, you know, uh, interesting time for me to get into mortgage kind of in this frenzy of refinances.

Mm-hmm.

When rates are glued to the bottom and everybody's trying to get, you know, 2.75 on their, on their refinance, and then for rates to sharply go up.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'd say it's, it's, it's so much greater than just, you know, a shift from one type of product to another. It's like a paradigm shift in the market. And so what I'm noticing is that there's this collective expectation that rates are going to go down. And so people are coming to the table with this expectation, okay, I'm going to lock this rate that's a bit higher. I don't want to put any money towards buying the rate down. I'm not interested in that. But in 2 to 3 years, rates are going to be back down and I'll refinance at that point.

Mm-hmm.

And That mentality, I think, comes from this long stretch of rates decreasing. So if you look at like where interest rates were in the '90s and where they are today, it's been like almost a perfect steady decrease. Obviously there's been some undulations, but we have this downward trend until we hit the bottom and then it's glued there during that COVID period. And so this expectation of rates are gonna come back down, I should, you know, I should just get into this and then, you know, it's gonna be different in a year, 2 years, 3 years. That's highly possible.

Mm-hmm.

It's potentially even likely given, you know, where the Fed funds futures rates are today. However, I, I, I see that mentality shift, which I think is a little bit of a rose-colored glasses point of view on the market. And that's influencing the way people are thinking about getting into deals today. In terms of products, I'd say the biggest, the biggest change, and this is what's most exciting for investors, is that products that were historically much more expensive in terms of rate and, you know, fees, costs to get into would be things like DSCR loans or just all the whole non-QM, non-qualified mortgage world, bank statement loans.

Mm-hmm.

things of that nature.

Mm-hmm.

Those products are not priced due, you know, with a, a link to the same securities on the backend. So where mortgage-backed securities are going to be, you know, tracking where your 30-year conventional mortgage is gonna be at, and all the lenders are gonna follow that and they're gonna reprice accordingly. These non-QM loans are funded by investors that are interested in that space for diversification of their portfolio. And so those rates have remained somewhat steady. So I remember when we were pricing mortgages for folks on a conventional that was like in the mid-3s and we would have something like a bank statement loan at 7. Well, that same bank statement loan might be at 7.5 now, but so is the conventional.

Right.

So the delta between something that is non-QM and conventional has shrunk immensely because the appetite for that risk remains the same on the investor side. However, it remains completely different, or remain, it's completely changed.

Right.

From the Fannie Freddie side of it. So that's probably the biggest shift in product change that I've seen through this raise in interest rates, this sharp raise. So it's a great time for investors who are looking to leverage their situation, folks who are self-employed, self-employed for a short period of time to use those products, because you're going to get a similar rate that you would get on a conventional loan. We've got a lot right now that are going into it thinking, oh, I'm going to do a conventional loan on this house that I want to buy. And then we get into their financials and we notice, okay, well, you're, you're a business owner. Do you have bank statements for the last 12 months, 24 months? Can we see those? Can we see your last 12 months bank statements? And we'll qualify them on a bank statement loan that will be even less of a rate, less expensive for them than a conventional loan. So that's kind of the—

Interesting.

The landscape right now, which I think is exciting for investors.

Alex, were you around in the '90s?

I was.

You were?

Yeah. I think I was skateboarding probably.

Were you 2?

No.

You were older than that?

Born in '82. Yeah, I was 82.

You should be the old guy on this show.

It's not young and old, it's new and experienced. My age has nothing to do with it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got it now. I finally got it.

Taylor, bring out your crystal ball. We were told that interest rates were going to be lowered the first part of this year, and here we are almost June, 6 months later. Um, I know what I'm— you know what I think. But I want to hear what you think. So again, get your crystal ball out and tell us where we're going to be at the end of the year.

Yeah. Right now, well, I mean, by the way, I should, I should say, like, this is all publicly available data to see where we're going to be at by the end of the year in the form of the dots plots or the Fed funds futures rates. What do the Fed members speculate rates are going to do between now and the end of the year.

It's more fun to call it a crystal ball.

Yeah, I agree.

Let's just go with that.

I agree. And you know what? It is a crystal ball because the market will do with that information what it will. So if it's announced that rates are going to be cut 3 or 4 times earlier in the year like it was, the market reacts to that and says, oh, we didn't expect that. Inflation figures have been troubling. At every release up until now. Okay, so the market completely reprices. We get much better interest rates, and we have this, this sense of optimism that rates are going to be dropped between, between the beginning of 2024 and the end. And I think a lot of folks on social media kind of got on and were saying, oh, the Fed announces rates are going to be dropped. in this very confident it's going to happen kind of way. But you have to remember, those are expectations. Those are where Fed members think rates are going. So that's their crystal ball. And we can, you know, we can extrapolate from that what that means and, and have an idea about where rates are going to go. But it doesn't mean that's what's actually going to happen. And so where rates are going to go, I think there's going to be one cut between now and the end of the year. That's what it looks like. At least the market has kind of priced that in. And so if that happens, I don't think there's gonna be much shift in where interest rates are today and by the end of the year. That's my crystal ball.

Is this a quarter of 1% cut? How big of a cut?

Yeah.

And is it a presidential year cut, if you know what I mean?

No, I don't think so. No, this is right now, inflation is dominating the market. That's the, I mean, and really there are only a couple things that affect interest rates. And there's only one tool that we have against inflation, and that's raising rates. So what is it that affects interest rates? Risk and inflation. That's it. So the situation in the Middle East, what happens with that? That's gonna be a huge factor in where interest rates go in the future. What happens with inflation and supply chain? You know, it looks like right now a lot of that is working itself out, but what about the pressures on oil prices from Iran and Russia and artificially affecting the supply of oil coming from the East and our dependence on that oil? So it's so much more nuanced than just our own housing market. We look at it from our lens, obviously, But what affects interest rates? Literally everything. And so what happens if war breaks out with Iran? That's going to be a totally different variable in what happens with interest rates. So I don't know what's going to happen, but my guess is that based on what the Fed is saying, based on the inflation numbers that I see, I think there's going to be a slight easing in those pressures. And then I believe that rates are going to settle into this range between 5% and 7% for an extended period of time. I think that that's going to be the new normal. That's my crystal ball.

We're at what, 7%, 7.5% right now?

Yeah, somewhere around there.

You think it'll actually get down to 5%?

I think it could. I think with the right—

Okay.

And if it does, what does that do to the prices of homes?

Yeah, this is the, The real big question. Well, it's not even a question. I think it's, this is just the most important thing to discuss because if rates come down, obviously folks are gonna be able to have a lower monthly payment. But, you know, housing shortage remains, supply remains outweighed by demand. And so right now with the way that the market is, it's stuck. Sellers don't wanna sell because what are they gonna do? Go buy something and have a 7% interest rate? Buyers don't wanna buy because they wanna wait for rates to come down.

Mm-hmm.

So if suddenly rates do come down into the 5s, you're going to have this tsunami of buyers coming to the table and no quick fix for the supply shortage in housing. And so I think prices are going to skyrocket. Well, I mean skyrocket. I think that they're— I think we're going to go through these waves like we saw in 2021, 2022, where we have these gaps in appraisals and we're constantly having to cover. I don't know if you ran into that. Where you got into contract and suddenly everything is not appraising for the listing price and people are having to throw down an extra $50K to get the deal done because one week the property, you know, appraises for $900,000 and then the next week it appraises for a million. And we have this, you know, inflation in housing prices that's Completely outstripping where it's been in the past. So I think we're gonna go in waves and I've, I've, I've already seen it. We've seen deals for a while there from October, let's say to January, getting accepted with 2-1 buydowns, right? With concessions from the seller side, with seller credits, this, this slight easing on buyers. Because the market slowed down and rates went up and there was less demand. However, people came back to the table in January. There's a slight lowering of interest rates. And just like that, properties that are listed at, you know, one price are going for 10, 15, 20% or more over asking. So yeah, I only think that lower interest rates is going to exacerbate that. And we're going to have these accordion cycles where we have a period where, you know, there's a little bit of an ease and people are getting appraisals in where they need to be. And then there's going to be this rush of demand because interest rates come down a little bit, and that's going to cause some issues, and then rates are going to go up. And I think that's going to be kind of this accordion flow that we get into.

So I totally agree with you. And when you sit down and you are doing a consultation with a buyer, are you telling them that, yes, it's 7% right now, but you're getting this property for $1 million. If this interest rate goes down to 5%, that same property may be worth $1.2 million. So why not buy now?

Yeah, I think that that's a wise way of looking at it. I think a lot of buyers have those rose-colored glasses that I referred to earlier in this, well, rates are going to go down and that's going to change my monthly payment. But they're not thinking about the asset. They're not thinking about how that's going to appreciate. But that really is the most powerful piece of it is getting to it now before rates come down. Because when they do, yeah, that house is going to be worth $1.2 million. And at that point, you're going to have more equity in the house just due to the fact that it's appreciated.

Right.

So if you have mortgage insurance on the property because you put 10% down, by the time you've gained some equity from making your on-time payments and inflation due to all the factors we're talking about, you may have 20% equity in your house. You may be able to remove that mortgage insurance. You may be able to refinance at that point as well. And that would be a significant change in the monthly payment. And then also there, you've, you've gained massive equity in your asset over a short period of time.

So, boom. Do you have something?

I'm just paying attention.

Oh.

Yeah. Okay.

He's just dropping.

So tell us about your like latest I'm a hero story. You know, like maybe it was a difficult, transaction because of this or that or whatever, you know, or something bad happened. I don't know. Just tell us.

Yeah.

Something exciting.

Yeah.

Well, I'll, I'll first say that like right now, it feels like every deal has something wild about it.

Mm-hmm.

And I think it's probably because of this like change I was talking about earlier where there's this opening up of investor opportunities. Because the delta between conventional rates and non-QM rates has shrunk. And so there's a lot of folks coming to the table with unique income scenarios, or they're stretching a little bit to get into something. And so yeah, there's a, there's something on it on, on every file right now, which keeps it fun. But I'd say the, the main stuff that's coming up for us right now is is in folks who are self-employed, Mm-hmm. who disqualify themselves from getting into a mortgage before actually talking to someone.

Mm-hmm.

And saying, look at my finances, look at my tax returns for the last 2 years. They might have this idea, someone told them it needs to look this way. You need to have this FICO score. You need to have 2 years history of this or that or whatever. And they'll disqualify themselves. And so, Right now, there's a lot of products coming out every week. There's a new one that addresses some other issue. Like, all right, now we can do 1 year of self-employment history instead of 2.

Hmm.

Stuff like that, where we have been able to recontact people who had said, oh, it's not going to work for me because of this. Like, hey, well, actually, let's look at it again with fresh eyes. So we have a lot of deals get into contract because of stuff like that. In terms of stuff that's gone wrong lately, oh boy. Yeah, I'd say that the hero stuff that we're consistently able to tout would be on speed. It would be on something goes wrong with Wells Fargo or some other lender on a file and a realtor reaches out to us and says, hey, here's the deal. We close escrow in a week. And Wells Fargo says that they won't do it this late in the game. So can you do it? And then being able to mobilize on our end and get the wholesale lender lined up, get our team all in position, you know, In situ and then just pull the trigger and get it done. I had one this week. So there's this new grant out in Riverside and San Bernardino County. It's called the Home Ready First Grant. And it's like a $5,000 grant that's based on where you live and rent. And so if you're a first-time buyer, you can plug your address in and say, I live here and I rent here or whatever. as long as you're a first-time buyer and that is truly your address, you qualify. $5,000 towards your closing costs. So it's a fantastic grant for people who live out in that area who are first-time buyers. So this was made aware to us.

Okay, great.

Well, I checked on one of our borrowers who was in escrow and halfway through, and we're getting ready to get cleared to close and she qualifies. It's like, okay, that's cool. I'd really love to get her $5,000 towards her closing costs. That'd be pretty cool. And rates have improved since we started this process. And so having the ability to cancel that loan with that specific lender and take it to a new lender so that we can re-register the loan, relock the loan at the rates that they were, they had come down over the last 2 weeks and get her $5,000 towards her closing costs. So her rate went down by a quarter And we got clear to close in 4 days. So that's one where I genuinely felt like a hero because we reduced her monthly payment by more than $50, got her $5,000 and still closed early on that file. So yeah. That's amazing.

That's amazing. That's a good one.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that, you know, that comes with the territory of being a broker. Brokers who are watching will know, like, and those who've worked with a broker, I hope you've experienced that as well, is that we're not locked in. So, and like I said, everyone has their strengths and I recognize that and respect that. And I love being able to refer people to the right lender if I know that Chase, for example, is going to be better for them. But that is where our strong suit lies is like, all right, we're halfway through and we need to cancel and go somewhere else. And I hate doing that because it's, you know, it's a bit of a waste of time for the first wholesale lender that we took it to. But, you know, my hope is that we'll get more deals to them in the future, make it up to them. And, and so we reserve the ability to be able to be nimble like that and cancel and go wherever we need to. We can use the same credit report. You don't have to pull it more than once. So there's a lot of little benefits that we have in that sense of, of being able to save the day when we need to.

Have the rules changed for investors? It used to be where the banks would let you get 10 different loans, and then during the 2008 downturn, they reduced that down to 4. Are we back to 10 or is there any, you know, is there any like way to do more than that?

So it's my understanding that that is the limit. However, I have some clients whose properties are under businesses, so they're owned by their business. And in that, in that structure, They're not personally on the loan and therefore they don't run into that issue. So I have someone who just did a portfolio refi, like across, I don't know, like 12 properties or something like that in different states. Very complicated, very complicated deal.

Mm-hmm.

And so one of the ways that we had to make that happen was to put those properties in a business as opposed to under his name. Some of them were his, some of them were his brother's, and we had to fudge around who's on title and to get the whole thing to work. But in the end, it made most sense for him to move it into his business, which is a— he's just started this. I'm going to take all my personal assets and put it into a real estate investment business with a property management arm and then go full speed ahead with that. He's been very successful in that. So yeah.

So, um, go ahead if you have a—

I was just gonna say, just so you can go, uh, nationwide. I mean, that's what I was gonna ask too. You can do multiple states or—

Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna ask. You took it from me.

That's why we do this.

Like, here, it's like, it depends, uh, depends on the product.

Yeah.

Actually. So if it's for a primary residence, we're licensed in California and in Colorado. So we really focus heavily on California for like primary borrowers, folks who are looking to do investments. That's going to be kind of a bigger, broader range. And in that way, as long as the wholesale lender is licensed in the state where we're going, then we're good. It doesn't fall onto my license. And we have someone pretty much anywhere who can do that stuff. So yeah, a lot more freedom when it comes to investment properties.

So these loans that you're doing, you call them portfolio loans. And I think what the difference is, correct me if I'm wrong, is a bank wants you to put that property and that loan in your name, where portfolio loan doesn't necessarily care.

I would say that Neither of them really matter when it comes to whose name it's in. So as long as, like, let's say you have a business that owns property, as long as that business is qualified to purchase based on its own credit score, its own qualification, then the business can own it or however it's structured. But in terms of the difference between The individual and— sorry, could you reframe the question? Because I want to make sure I answer it correctly.

I want to get a loan on my property in California and it's in my LLC.

Yeah.

Am I going to be able to get a loan in the name of the LLC or are they going to want to qualify me personally? Okay. And make that a recourse loan? Versus a non-recourse loan?

Right, right.

Okay.

I see what you're asking. So, so yeah, it depends on how you structure it. So if it's a, I use the term portfolio, but I think it's kind of a misnomer. I'll call it a cross-collateralized loan.

Okay.

And so this is going to be a loan that is going to be underwritten against the other assets against which it's qualified. So let's say you own 10 properties and you want to buy another one. If you have enough equity in the other properties, then they'll treat it like a kind of like a DSCR loan. If you're familiar, I'm sure you're familiar with DSCR loans.

Mm-hmm.

They're going to refinance the portfolio of assets against what they rent for. And then of course your equity in those properties. And then they're going to qualify you also based on what the new property you're going to buy is going to rent. And so it's less about you as an individual and more about what the portfolio generates in income and how much equity there is. So whether it's you who owns it or an entity that owns it, it's underwritten the same way. And that's the beauty of those loans. And those are the ones that I think are also very attractive right now, which is my income's complicated, or I just started a new job, or I just went from W-2 to starting my own business or whatever. You can still get in the game with a loan that's underwritten on the property's ability to generate Revenue. And I think there's also a little bit of a misconception that, that rent collected needs to cover the entire monthly payment. And that's not necessarily true. There are a lot of lenders that will take the deal at like a 0.5 ratio, as long as your rent covers half of everything or, you know, 3 quarters. And of course, you know, the pricing on those varies with how much you put down, what your FICO score is. how much, you know, that rent really is in relation to the monthly payment all in. But we've got a lot of folks who have no real income and they're buying properties that way. So it's, that's exciting.

That's powerful. Yeah.

So I'm working with a couple of doctors right now. Doctors, doctors. They have already 10 loans. I've, you know, helped them purchase 10 properties, they all have loans on them and they're at the wall and they wanted to buy another property. And so what do you say to them? How can you help them?

Yeah, um, I try to stay in my lane on this stuff too, where it's like, I, I like to, to know about these things, but, um, I usually refer people to real estate attorneys to, uh, figure stuff like this out and then, um, you know, uh, get an answer that, that That works. And then we go from there. So with the guy I referred to earlier, we got him in touch with a real estate attorney. He structured stuff with him on the backend. And then we came back to the table and went full speed ahead with this portfolio refi and we're good. So yeah, yeah, like I have some ideas about it, but I'm hesitant to say it's this or that, you know, with you right now.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, just send them to Taylor. He'll figure it out. Yeah, nice. Okay, cool. Um, why don't we jump over into some videos? We got some videos that we want you to kind of comment on. Yeah, um, give your 2 cents.

Let's do it.

What do we got first, producer? Sorry, one of the buttons wasn't working.

Oh, okay. We've got one thing your mortgage lender won't tell you.

Something your mortgage lender is not going to share with you, and the reason is it saves you over $145,000 if you have a $500,000 30-year fixed loan at 6.5%. We're talking about making biweekly payments. So what you do here, instead of making 12 monthly payments each year, you make 26 biweekly payments, which equal 13 monthly payments. So you're only making one extra monthly payment. However, over the life of the loan on a $500,000, 30-year fixed mortgage at 6.5%, making biweekly payments saves you over $146,000 in interest. Something your mortgage lender is—

What do you say to that?

I say that's a fantastic strategy.

Why don't you tell everyone then?

Yeah. No, it is something that I like to educate borrowers on, which is the options that they have to accelerate those payments, whether through coming up with some structure of, you know, a biweekly structure or something like that. Or when we start the process, it could be that they're going to get better terms with like a specific combination of down payment on the front end. And then they could recast the loan after the fact. by putting some of the funds that might've gone into it in the beginning and into it on the backside.

Hmm.

So, and that could look like, oh, well, you could just keep those funds and do biweekly payments, or you could recast the loan by putting it as like an after-the-fact down payment. So a lot of folks who are in a position where they need to sell something before they buy something, they feel like, oh, unless I get a bridge loan, I need to sell this property first. But here's, here's a weird nuance that not a lot of people know. If you lock a loan with 15% down, you're going to have a mortgage interest payment. However, once you reach 20% down, of course, that comes off. The rates on something with 15% down are actually better than something with 20% down. And the reason is because that mortgage insurance is something that the lender is counting on. Think, oh, well, you've got it covered. I can offer you a lower rate. I'm not assuming as much risk. And so for somebody in that position, and this is a bit, this is kind of one of those behind the curtain things is like, if you were to buy something, put 15% down, just recast it later with the money that you might've put down to get a better rate And then remove the mortgage insurance once you put that amount down and recast. So that would be another sneaky combo when you're talking about trying to reduce the amount that you pay over that period.

Right. Okay. And you're always going to have the mortgage insurance for anything under 20%, basically?

Yeah. I mean, there are some loans that come without mortgage insurance, but I mean, the reality is that it's baked in somewhere. So, but those do exist. You know, if you, if you'd rather see it without mortgage insurance, then, you know, those products exist. But yeah.

Would you rather do that strategy or get a 15-year loan? What would you recommend?

I would rather do that strategy. I think it's ahead.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, I think I, I like, I like hedges. And so, um, that way is a hedge because if you can make those payments, make those payments. Yeah. If you can't because something happens in your life, some, you know, bad circumstances, you don't have to.

Thank you. Oh my gosh.

What is that? Is someone like telling you that 15-year loans are better or something?

Yeah, because you pay it off sooner.

But okay, the question is You know, answered correctly. Yeah.

It's like, if you can afford it, then make that extra payment or 2 a year. But if life comes up, which it does all the time, you don't have to. You're still locked into, you know, a lower monthly payment at a 30-year than you are at a 15-year. So yeah, you can turn a 30-year mortgage into a 15-year. All you have to do is pay more.

Right.

And if you can't, just like you said, You know, then move on.

There's 2 other hedges that I really like in relation to that. And the first is buying down the interest rate permanently, which I think a lot of folks are overlooking right now because they're locked into this, our rates are going to come down expectation. I'd say forget that. Rates might come down, but it's not certain that they are going to come down. And so I think it's wise to find the, like, the makes sense sweet spot on a rate buydown. So if you can buy the rate down for a few thousand bucks and say like the difference in monthly payment is going to make it so you would break even in 2.5, 3 years, something like that, you're hedging your bet so that if rates don't come down within that period, well, great. You've locked, you've locked a better rate. If they do come down to that point, well, great. You already have that rate.

Mm-hmm.

Good for you. And the second would be the temporary buydown, like the 2-1 strategy, which of course is going to be, you know, for the primary residence buyers. But you, if you can negotiate a 2-1 buydown on your deal, that money goes towards the buydown for the first 2 years and it's in an escrow account funding it. So if you sell the house or things change, that money can go towards your, your next purchase. So it's not just, you know, lost in the ether forever. So those are 2 other hedges I like.

But nice. Thank you for that.

The 2-1 buydown is, is kind of a newer thing that's been offered. I, I've always been used to a permanent buydown. Um, that, that would be the way that I would go, or I would recommend to a seller, is to do a permanent buydown. And then, you know, if you can get the seller to pay for it, that's even better at the end of the day.

Yeah. The unique piece about the 2-1 is that the seller has to pay for it if it's the temporary. But yeah, if you can get a seller to pay for a permanent buydown, I mean, if you can get seller credit, period, it's great. But we've done a lot of deals where the buydown is kind of like structured into it, into the offer. And so the agents will talk and the buyer's agent will say like, hey, instead of asking you for credit, let's agree on a price.

Mm-hmm.

Whereby you're willing to then credit back enough to pay for this buydown. And I leave that to the agents to, you know, negotiate, but I can let them know you're gonna need $30,000 or whatever to pay for it. And as long as it appraises, then we're good. And there's a lot of properties that we get appraisals waived and then it's not an issue. So.

Is there a percentage of seller credit that you can't go over? Yeah.

So there are, let's see, there are interested party contribution limits depending on the loans. A lot of that is like up for discussion right now with this lawsuit.

Mm-hmm.

Because there's, there's conversation about, you know, sellers paying for buyer's agent stuff and on and on. So, Yeah. The limit that, I have to refresh my memory on this because the limit I believe on like a conventional loan. See, I'm going to start quoting stuff incorrectly here because it's different for every loan, but like a VA loan, I think is like 3% or something like that. Don't quote me. It's—

That's true.

But on an FHA, I want to say it's 6%. And on a conventional, it depends on how much the LTV is. So it varies, but you could be in a situation where you have a buyer who's got like 3% down or something like that on a conventional. And the amount of interested party contribution contributions is, you know, really low, like 3% or something like that. And then you can run into issues where you can't go over it, you know?

Mm-hmm.

I didn't know Joe was going to be quizzing you this whole time.

Sorry.

He's like, yes, that's correct.

We have another video.

That's correct.

Yeah, let's move on. I'll stop asking questions.

No, no, I love it.

I'm testing his skills here, you know?

Yeah. Mortgage Jeopardy.

Exactly.

Yeah, he said 100%, so we're doing good.

All right, quick question. Is debt bad?

I probably own 2,000 pieces of real estate in my life. And so I was doing a lot of flips and some of them I was doing in 24 hours.

You know, I just buy them and flip them to another investor and make $10,000 and keep walking, you know, that kind of stuff. So I was doing 100% financed.

And so if risk's definition is your chance of loss, if using debt increases that, I 100% agree with Dave Ramsey. I 100% agree that debt— and I've said this multiple times— debt can be an enabler. Debt can get you into a deal that you shouldn't be in. Debt can create a greater rate of return on the upside but can make you overleveraged. I mean, he just said it himself. He was doing deals and had no skin in the game and was 100% leveraged. And then they called the notes. He was swimming naked. Dave Ramsey is looking at debt as the issue. I'm looking at the activity that you're doing with it as the issue. Is debt the problem or is your activity the problem?

Answer now. Right when I said—

Yeah, no, I think that that's, that's wise. I think that a lot of a lot of very successful entrepreneurs out on social media are saying the same stuff, which is think about debt in a different way. But again, it depends on the type of debt.

Yeah.

And so in one sense, I'm a loan officer, right? I'm helping folks to secure debt on a property that they're going to buy. But I think of myself more as like a debt advisor, whereas like a wealth advisor would be somebody who's looking at like building someone's wealth based on the investments that they have.

Mm-hmm.

But on the flip side, it's, it's, it's how are you managing debt and how are you using debt to achieve your goals as well? And of course there's so many different applications for that that makes sense for somebody based on what their goals are. But if you qualify to use debt to purchase an asset that's going to appreciate, Then yeah, what, you know, absolutely debt is, is, is very powerful in that regard. So yeah, I think it's, it's about putting yourself in a position to be able to succeed long-term where you have enough reserves to cover any problems. Like if you're going to buy an investment property in another market, let's say, and you have somebody who is managing that property, You got to have enough to pay for that person. Of course, hopefully your rent on the property is paying for all those things. And maybe you're cash flowing on top of that. Maybe you're not, but something goes wrong with that property and you need to replace the roof or you need to replace the garage or whatever else, you got to be able to pay for that. And so as you grow, it's like, what are the reserves that you have on tap to be able to solve the problems that come up with owning property? And as long as you do that wisely, then yeah, keep building, keep getting debt. Because what the debt is in that sense is debt against your qualification, your name, whatever you want to call it. That is your debt that's being paid by someone else.

Mm-hmm.

And so over time, you're gaining an asset. An inflation-proof asset, by the way. Uh, and so, um, yeah, absolutely. No, I don't think debt is bad. No, but it depends on the debt, right? You got credit card debt, uh, different kind of debt.

Get rid of that.

I think the key word there was wisely. And Dave Ramsey is one of those guys that doesn't want to, you know, have any debt. Robert Kiyosaki, on the other hand, he's got a billion dollars in debt with all his properties. So it's 2 different philosophies. I get people ask me all the time, you know, what do you think of hard money? Hard money is good if you are disciplined and know what you're doing. And, you know, for example, we use it in our flipping business. If, if I've got $1 million in cash and I wanted to deploy that to a property, we're in California, I could buy one. Okay, if I use hard money and only put 20% down and they're million-dollar property, I'm not— I now can buy 5 properties. And if I'm making $100,000 on each property, I'm making $500,000 instead of $100,000 because I know how to manage that risk and that debt.

Yeah.

And so I think, you know, that was a wise Wise word. It's just like you, you have to be careful what you're doing and know what you're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and so I, I, and this is where, you know, becoming a, like a, a debt management expert really pays off. Was when I have somebody who would really benefit from using hard money, it's something that can, we can put on the table and say, look, you want to get into this to get it done. Here's your plan. You've got plenty of reserves. You're working with a good agent. This makes sense. And so, yeah, as long as it's something that we know is going to work out for them, I say, why not? Because not everybody is going to have the time to qualify and close in 21 days, 30 days, whatever. Even if you can get it done quick, it's so much quicker to close on something with hard money and just boom, get it done.

Mm-hmm.

Start the renovation or whatever it is you need to do. Even if you're not flipping it, like we have folks who want to buy stuff and hard money can be a good option for them if they want to just buy it before and then take the time to go through the underwriting process on a more conventional product. And it's worth it for them, especially in like high net worth individuals, you know, in their instances where they want to buy a $16 million property, you know, in Newport Coast or something like that. That can be like a good interim solution to getting the property simply and then figuring out on the back end. Wow.

Yeah.

Do we have another video?

We do. This is a funny one.

This is kind of random.

It's kind of random, but I could not stop watching this yesterday, and Joe didn't think it was real.

I don't— still don't think it's real.

This is one of the defining moments of my life. Whatever it takes to win.

Bring it on.

Can you see that? The flip-off. That's Tarek's new show.

HGTV, just like the names. I, I was dying. I could not believe it.

What are your thoughts on that? Tarek versus his ex-wife in a flipping reality competition show.

Yeah, um, I think whoever's in, uh, you know, in the, in the creative department down there should get a raise. I mean, solid gold right there.

It's like, what are you doing?

But I think that like the, you know, the, like the, the marketing for the, for the show should be them flipping each other off. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, the flip-off.

They've already started little videos on Instagram like with fake beef, like, you know, like professional fighters and stuff. It's very entertaining, and I just— HGTV, they win every time.

Okay, I'll look at it when it's actually out.

It's real.

I mean, if it was, you know, April 1st, I'd go like, yeah, that's April Fool's Day, you know, joke. But I still think it is.

I don't know.

It's like I guess, you know, whatever.

Yeah. What do you think?

Uh, I think it's great. Yeah. No, um, those shows are, are always hilarious, right? You know, as a, as an industry insider, like, yeah, how, uh, how far-fetched and, and fake a lot of that stuff is. Yeah, I get a kick out of it. I love, I love getting a kick out of those kind of shows, but they're always They're always so contrived and like—

Oh, totally.

Yeah.

And, and it's, um, I mean, especially with the flipping ones, I think that's why so many people think that they can just get right into it like immediately. They're like, oh, I got some cash saved up, let's go flip a house. It's super easy. All you gotta do is snap your fingers, do the swipe, do the reveal, it's done. And then once you get—

That's not the way it works?

No.

Oh, and once you get in there, you're fighting off crackheads and, you know, they don't show that part.

Yeah. Okay.

Stuff's like leaking and you gotta go back in there and redo some stuff.

All you gotta do is, uh, is get in touch with Joe and Alex. That's all you gotta do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, do you have any, um, as far as like getting into the investment game, what, what are your plans there?

Yeah. Um, my plans with regards to that are, um, more so looking outside of California. Um, just personally.

Yeah.

Um, I'd say I'm more interested in stable growth cash flow markets. And so I like markets like Oklahoma, places like that. And so yeah, that's the kind of stuff that interests me right now.

Cool.

Just given like volatility and how much, you know, you can leverage your money, you know, in terms of those markets. And I don't have the time to get involved in flipping homes or, or buying stuff and then tending to it myself.

Oh, no, no, no.

Yeah. So, personally, that's what interests me.

Nice.

But for the right buyers, you know, there's so much of a bigger world out there of different opportunities. And, you know, I know I have a lot of friends who are involved in projects here, short-term rental stuff. That's interesting to me as well. But I have friends who are involved as like a group You know, who will buy short-term rental properties out in Joshua Tree or, you know, elsewhere. And that's interesting as well. Kind of, kind of, you know, I'm interested in that on the horizon.

Cool. Yeah. Okay. So like buying single-family homes that cash flow or multifamily?

Yeah. For, for like, for the minimal effort and, and input on my end, I'd say it would make most sense For, for me at this point, and maybe, you know, maybe Joe, you can, or both you guys can enlighten me to, you know, other opportunities that exist. But I think the good builders who, you know, have warranties on stuff and say, okay, this is a builder I like who's built a new tract in a good area.

Right.

I'm gonna buy this house. And I know that the property manager in this area I trust and is good because they've done good for me on another property or for someone else I know. They come highly recommended. It's a set it and forget it in that sense. It's the same as my mutual fund in that sense. I can buy it, buy a bunch of them, say, cool, thanks. I know I don't have to worry about the bathroom. I know I don't have to worry about the roof. And I know if anything comes up less than $500, the property manager is going to go take care of it. And I don't have to be on my phone.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Nice.

Joshua Tree is dead to us.

Yeah, tell me why.

That's my advice because we lost money out there.

We lost money.

You know, it was COVID and it was shooting up because everybody was moving out there to do short-term rental, but we caught it as it peaked and was coming down the other side and ended up losing some money out there. And I mean, if you want a property in Joshua Tree, there's millions of properties right now in Joshua Tree. It's just It's not, it's not there the way it used to be. Yeah.

I think you just have to have something that's ultra luxury if you're going to do an STR. It has to really stand out and provide value. Whereas when we bought our flip, we were like, oh, we're going to sell it to someone who's going to short-term rental it. But all the single-family STRs out there basically got wiped out because there was nothing really that special about them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have a question for you guys. Is your, like, is the typical investor that you meet at your meetups or just through the industry, is it more of a, somebody who's buying and holding and renting short-term, renting long-term, flipping? Like, how are people getting into investments, you know, into the investment game these days? Or is it just kind of like a general hodgepodge?

I would say general hodgepodge. I mean, I know Joe's meetup, you'll, you'll see people that want to do the flips. You'll see people that— a lot of people are going out of state for the cash flow. Um, but then he also has people that only buy Orange County long-term rentals for the appreciation too. So I think right now it's pretty much wherever you can get in.

Um, yeah, it's pretty much what you want to do. Here, you know, in California, especially in Orange County, it's very difficult to buy something that cash flows. So it's like, forget about it.

Yeah.

You know, those people are maybe going out of state, which is another learning curve when you go out of state to do, you know, stuff like that. It's— I mean, I flip here in California and, you know, that's difficult enough. I can't imagine. Going to Texas or someplace else to flip. We get a lot of people that want to start. The best way to start is, I would say, wholesaling, which is how I got Alex started. Once you get into wholesaling, once you start making a little bit of money there, then you can start, you know, venturing into flipping. And flipping is going to obviously generate you more money. And then at that point is a decision, okay, I have all this and I really want to buy something to hold on to it for the future. I, you know, right now I need to go out of state to do that. So you end up going out of state.

So— We've been seeing a lot of people too that have like nice high-paying W-2 jobs, but they're done with it kind of. And so they're looking at real estate as the vehicle to get them out of that. They'll come in at all different, different angles and exit strategies.

My advice to those folks, don't quit your job.

Yeah, that's how you fall behind.

That's the way I always tell them.

Or like, just buy the real estate while you're working.

Yeah.

And then figure it out.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, until you get to know what you're doing, definitely don't quit your day job. Definitely don't quit your day job.

I know.

Do we have, uh, Guest comments?

We do. We have a couple comments. Let's see. We've got— you already know her, you love her. We've got Liz in the chat. She says hi.

Hi, Liz.

She also added, have a good show.

Okay.

Would she like turn it on and then left?

Uh, basically like right when, uh, the video started, all her comments just like— we're already there.

Nice.

I think she was commenting before we were even live.

She's doing the dishes right now.

Madeline chimed in earlier too. She said, I'll be listening for some more tidbits.

Cool. That's what we provide.

Which I think this was a very informative podcast.

Yes.

A lot of tidbits.

And then we got Stephanie, the birthday girl in the chat. Taylor, I'm assuming you know her.

Yeah.

Happy birthday, Stephanie.

She's asking about your daughter.

Okay. Wow. It's getting personal.

Said, is your daughter watching? Uh, here's a chance to give a shout out. I bet you have math homework after the pod.

Yeah.

Wow.

Very specific. Yeah. So, so Stephanie, um, and Joe both have been involved in, uh, in one of our, um, meetings that we do, um, to talk about properties and just a general get-together with agents, uh, in South Orange County. And, uh, oftentimes I'll have to split off from the meeting to jump on FaceTime with my daughter to help her with her math homework. So I love, I love the question. Yeah. So no, my daughter is doing math homework right now. So she's not watching.

Okay. Okay.

I'm not sure how interesting, you know, real estate investment topics are for an 11-year-old. Yeah, exactly.

Like not even thinking about it.

Yeah.

She also says this pod is full of insightful shorts. Boom. And You know, she's an agent. She wants that commission. She says, let me assist you, Taylor, when you need a buyer agent in Newport Coast.

Yeah.

With a hard money loan.

Yeah.

Oh, $16 mil. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that'd be nice.

On that topic, I'll say, um, I've had a lot of deals lately where because of this NAR stuff, um, the buyer or the seller or somebody, you know, has a lot of questions and it's led to the buyer ditching their agent.

Right.

Oh.

Prematurely, you know. Oh, well, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a better deal if I just go straight to the seller.

Oh, it's already happening.

Um, it's happened on 2 deals so far that I've been on, um, which has been a nightmare because, uh, the seller's agent is like, oh yeah, don't worry, I got you. You know, I'm gonna, you know, take care of you. And of course they get raked over the coals and And then leaning on us, you know, so I become the agent basically. Oh my gosh. And it's like, oh, well, can you negotiate this with him or that with him? And it's like, oh boy. Like, yeah, try to stay in my lane with that. But, um, but I think a lot of the questions for agents, if there's agents watching, I know Stephanie's watching. Um, I mean, Stephanie and I have talked about this is, um, I think now more than ever, the value of a buyer's agent is coming into focus. And, um, and that's something that, that I see You know, as critical to getting a deal done properly is having a strong buyer's agent in the picture.

Mm-hmm.

And so, yeah, right now I'm spending a lot of energy on thinking about how is it that I can continue to display the value that that has in a transaction to keep my buyers on with the agents they're working with. And not ditch them. And it's not happening in droves or anything like that. But I think the more that this lawsuit is worked out, the more that those questions are going to come up and we're going to have to find ways to reinforce that story of value. I mean, it's a real thing.

Oh, it's totally real. We just went through a tale of 2 buyer's agents where we had one that was just like a complete moron, just lied the whole time, had us in escrow for 60 days, and then Lost his his his buyer's EMD and then canceled. Yeah, and then then we get the next guy and we're like we're like kind of shell shocked. But he's just been he's been communicating like everything's on time. It's like really easy to work with and it's night and day.

Mm hmm.

Absolutely.

I can't even imagine working with the buyers just by themselves too. Yeah, well, be like what are you guys doing?

Probably the most litigated transaction is dual agency.

Yeah.

You know, and you have a fiduciary responsibility in that case to the seller because that's the first person that you signed a contract with. And then the buyer comes in and says, well, I want you to represent me. But if an issue comes up, you know, what are you going to do as an agent? You're going to say, well, yeah, I'm going to go on the seller side here because That's who I signed the contract with. And then if you change your mind halfway through this, I'm not going to lose anything. I still have the listing. I'll just put it back on the market and go out. But, you know, people think that, yeah, it's going to be easier if you go to the listing agent. It may be easier at the end of the day, but, you know, we're all, we're all human and, you know, You're you're kind of asking for trouble if you do it that way.

Yeah, I had someone who was told that he was going to receive a portion of the commissions, which was not in the contract, by the way. And so when that finally came up, and he said, "Oh well, I'm getting something you know on the outside of the transaction from this guy." No, you're not.

Yeah, that's not happening, bro.

That is not happening. Yeah, your numbers block. Yeah, massive red flag.

Yeah, yeah, I'll pay and I'll Cash App you, don't worry.

Yeah, yeah, like, how'd that work out ditching your buyer's agent now?

Like, oh no, that's right, you gotta learn. Not good. People gotta learn. Yeah, cool. Well, that was fun. Yeah, it was already an hour. Appreciate it. Appreciate you dropping some knowledge. Um, where can people find you if they want to work with you?

Yeah. So again, my name is Taylor Smith. You can find me at my phone number, which is 831-278-2785, or taylor@priceresidential.com. And yeah, mortgage broker with C2 Financial. And yeah, you can find me or us on Instagram. We're Price Residential Lending there as well.

So perfect. Yeah, we'll reach out, buy now, and then, uh, whatever happens happens.

You can call Taylor Swift directly because they're related.

That's right.

Brother and sister. So she'll get you connected with him.

Yeah, you can buy a $600 ticket to come see us.

Yeah, there you go.

There you go.

Love that. My daughter would love that.

Yeah, she's a Swiftie.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Nice.

Yep.

Okay. Who isn't?

Yeah, I know.

Besides, I don't even know who she is.

I— well, you do now because of Lauren. But yeah, that's true. So you've been listening to the new album like nonstop?

My daughter has, that's for sure. She's got it on vinyl. It's all she talks about. So, oh my gosh. Yeah.

And the problem is like she has so many variants that like if your daughter's into it, you got to be buying— like you got to be taking on a second job at this point to keep up with the merch and the drops.

And yeah, she, uh, we were visiting San Francisco together not long ago and she wanted to go to a record store She's all pumped about this record player she got. She wanted to buy some Taylor Swift vinyl. And I thought, cool, we'll go buy some vinyl. But I didn't know that Taylor Swift records were so expensive. I mean, some of them were like over $100. And yeah, so I had to keep good on my promise.

But yeah, you can't get like a used one of like the Counting Crows or something?

No, you know what's great about that? Um, she has this Nirvana shirt.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

She thinks it's so cool, this shirt. And then, uh, we were in the car and Nirvana came on and she's like, what is this? And I was like, that's the band on your t-shirt. And she goes, oh, well, I still like the t-shirt, but I don't like this. And that was a year ago. Last night we were talking about this. She goes, oh yeah. And I got this new album on vinyl called Nevermind. Uh, by Nirvana, and I'm— I actually like them now. It's like, okay, it's an acquired taste apparently.

Yeah, you came around. I mean, to be listening to Taylor Swift and then go to Nirvana, I get it. Like, that's— yeah, that's like—

She's got Rumors, you know.

Okay.

I'm proud of the, you know, of her burgeoning musical taste.

Yeah, it's maturing. That's nice. That's easier on your ears.

Yeah, absolutely.

Awesome. Well, what a fun time, you guys. Thanks so much for joining us, joining us in the chat. Make sure to share this, uh, far and wide, and we're gonna have some of those, uh, clips coming out soon. So, uh, we'll see you at the meetup on Monday. And Joe, you have anything else to add?

Saturday.

Saturday we got a Pelago webinar on how to find MLS properties.

3 o'clock.

It's on Meetup. You'll find it there.

There you go. Yeah. So we'll see you guys there on Saturday.

Yes.

And then we'll see you guys live on Monday and then live in person on Monday. And if you're a newbie, Please come.

Yes.

And prepare for me to pick on you.

There you go.

I don't know if that's going to convince them.

Well, Joe's going to give him $5 after.

That's okay.

Yeah, $5 handshake after.

I'll, I'll validate your parking.

I'll say— There you go. Yeah, that's at least $19.

Yeah.

All right, you guys, thanks so much. We'll see you next week.

If you want some more advice on real estate investing, reach out to us one-on-one.