Unlocking Wealth: High-Ticket Sales & Real Estate Investing with Justin Nguyen!

Hey, hey, hey!

What's up, you guys? Welcome back to the New and Experienced Investor Podcast, where we come to you live every week at 4 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. This is the podcast that brings real estate investors from all walks of life together. I'm one of your hosts, Alex Barnett. I'm the new guy.

And I'm Joe Holmes and I'm the experience guy.

That's right. And we're back.

We're back.

How's it been over the last week?

Good. Can you tell?

Yeah, I like it. You're getting scruffy.

Yeah, got lazy. One of the two.

That's just— it's the vibe these days. Um, so we're super excited. We have Justin Nguyen here. He's in studio with us. We're going to be talking about high-ticket sales. We're going to talk about wholesaling real estate and how they go hand in hand. Um, so stick around. We're going to give you some tips on overcoming objections, how to talk to people on the phone, negotiating, all that good stuff. Before we do, really quick, we want to go over, um, or at least tell people about our upcoming event. The last one was awesome.

It was, it was, it was more than awesome. It was fantastic.

Fantastic.

It was, it was You know, it was a week late. The— it was raining the, the Monday before, but it was such a nice day in California, you know. And obviously we're in California, it's raining outside right now, but it was clear and hot on Monday and it was just fantastic.

Yeah. And, um, we, we got moved from our normal area, but, you know, it ended up— it actually ended up being pretty cool because, yeah, I'd say like Close to 100 people showed up.

Yeah.

I think we had 120 that RSVP'd, and normally we'll get about half, but we had about 100 people. And the topic was how Ryan bought 85 properties in Alabama, which we went over on the podcast before, but this time he had a slideshow and he broke down the actual portfolios that he bought. And I think it really opened a lot of people's eyes.

Yeah.

Had a lot of good feedback.

Yeah. No, if you, if you go to last week's podcast, you have pretty much all the information there and you can reach out to Ryan directly if you have any questions. But there, yeah, there was a lot of information at Monday's meetup.

Yeah. Yep. I had a lot of people coming up to me that said they're going to buy property in Alabama. So people texted me Zillow links of like $30,000 houses in Alabama. I'm like, I don't know. Talk to Ryan. But, um, this next meetup that we have coming up, it's, uh, February 26th.

Yes.

And, um, this one's pretty cool too, cuz it's also sort of a virtual market. You wanna explain?

Yeah. Um, he's gonna speak about buying properties out of the country, uh, in different places. He was, uh, in China for a while.

Right.

And that's where he met his wife. And, um, I guess right before COVID he moved over here to do some deals over here. And he says, thank God that he did, because if not, he would have been stuck in China this entire time. Wow. So yeah, so that was kind of, you know, fortunate for him. He has a couple of businesses back in China, and then they were doing some flips and higher-end properties in other places. And that's what he's going to talk about, just like buying properties out of the country.

Yeah, investing in, you know, the tropical locations like Bali and Thailand. And it looks like a pretty cool, uh, setup. So yeah, that'll be really fun.

Yeah, I think we should take this podcast on the road.

Yeah, Bali and Thailand. Okay, Hawaii. Yeah, yeah, that would be cool. How long, like, of a plane flight can you handle before you want to You know, freak out.

Four or five hours.

Oh, okay. Well, that limits.

I prefer a cruise ship going over there, but okay. I can stand four or five hours.

Okay. There we go. Get you an Ambien, little wine.

No.

Okay.

Okay.

Never mind.

No.

But speaking of guest speakers, let's go ahead and bring on our guest for today, Justin Nguyen. Thank you so much for joining us, man.

Yeah, glad to be here with you guys.

Awesome. Well, why don't you just go ahead and jump in, maybe give the audience your introduction. I know you're getting into real estate, you have been in real estate and kind of your background.

Yeah.

So basically been working in high-ticket sales for the last, since 2021. For those who don't know, high-ticket is typically anything that's $5K and up packages specifically I sell for people who are in the real estate niche. So different packages could be like, let's say a $10K package where we teach people how to like place offers on the MLS or just basically how to comp properties or do different marketing campaigns and stuff like that to be able to generate leads and then obviously get the deal done. So yeah, been doing that for the last few years. Talk to a lot of people who are looking either to get into real estate for the very first time Or for current, like, experienced people who do, like, a substantial amount of deals. And essentially we can come in and offer different packages where we can help them learn how to run, like, PPC or just different stuff like that. But that's what I've done for the last few years.

Amazing. And when I saw your bio come in, I mean, you're hitting numbers, dude. Yeah.

That's what people say.

Yeah, that's good. I mean, so, you know, as it's related to real estate, people always say when you're on the phone, you're doing cold calling, you're selling. But I mean, really we're We're asking if we can buy the property. But I think the techniques from sales are there. It's the negotiating, it's the building rapport and all that kind of stuff. So was this something you were— is this like your whole background is sales or is this something you got into naturally or how did that happen?

Yeah, literally it wasn't by choice. It was literally just out of necessity. Like a couple years ago, my wife, Michaela, and I, we were not making the money we wanted. And we're just like, okay, what kind of industries can even make money per se. And I actually bought someone's high-ticket program. That was my very first introduction into the world of high-ticket. It was like $4,000 or something like that. Basically taught me how to like package knowledge and information and create like courses around it. And specifically what I did was, 'cause we were making like very little money at the time, But I was able to— my very first $100 grand that I had made was actually through the stock market. So I learned over some time just how to read balance sheets and just understand a company's profitability and stuff like that and made fairly safe investments, not risky betting type moves, but it's like I bought companies like Lowe's or Caterpillar Construction, Home Depot, and I was able to turn my first $100 grand. And so I basically taught other people. how to do that. And so got into the high-ticket space that way. I had my own high-ticket program, basically charged people just a flat grand. Like, hey, if you want to learn how to do everything that I did, I basically synthesized like everything that like big investors like Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, and like some other people, their philosophy around investing. And so I basically just packaged that together and kind of sold it myself for a while. And then I went on to go work for the guy who sold me the high-ticket program. So I became what they call like a high-ticket closer. And basically I sold his package to different people who had knowledge and information that they could teach the world.

Awesome. So like these companies or I guess the guy that you worked for, he's just feeding you leads. Like, and then how do you just have a CRM or what is like, what does your day look like as a high-ticket closer?

Yeah. So there's what is called full cycle. So full cycle is essentially where there's already like you could do like cold outreach, stuff like that. And then there's more like inbound closers. So that's what I've done for the last few years. So like I have a team who basically will like prospect and people reach out based on like our marketing, like if they want to learn. In my case right now, like if someone wants to learn, let's say, how to flip a house wholesale, do a sub-to deal creative or whatever, they'll reach out to us. And I have a team that I've kind of trained them up to learn how to vet prospects and see if these people are like, one, legitimate people that we can help. Like they actually have the time availability to actually learn, take classes, implement. And then from there, just some other things that I teach them to qualify them, so to speak. And if they get qualified, then they hop into my calendar. And then I have like, typically meetings go from anywhere from like 45 minutes to like an hour and a half. And the goal is to—

Yeah.

Close them. So on a high-ticket offer. So, right. $30 grand, whatever. So.

Okay.

Wow.

So you got to keep them on for 45 minutes to an hour. You really get inside their head.

It's the mind games, right?

Okay.

It's mental chess. I always tell people, like, if you like chess or like jiu-jitsu or those types of things, then like sales is probably up your alley too, just because a lot of it is strategy. There is like basic level sales where it's just like, I don't know, people are taught old school sales, like high pressure or high persuasion. Those are very common schools of thought for sales. And so it's just a matter of like learning the different like types of sales strategies there are and then being able to figure out what works best. And so, yeah, I've essentially built out my own framework for the last 2 years and—

That's awesome.

Yeah, that's what I do.

Awesome.

Who's been like your biggest influences as far as like closers and sales and all that stuff?

Yeah, I think it started off, I'd say probably most people, it's like the number one most sold book, like Never Split the Difference. Like it started off with Chris Voss, essentially learning how like, hey, your tonality matters. You know, like if you're talking, like he likes to call it his radio voice, where he just like engages with the prospect. Could be any industry. It could be selling cars. It could be selling, like trying to buy real estate people. But if you have a tone that's disarming, the main objective is just to be able to get the prospect to be able to have an environment in which they feel safe enough to be able to share as much information as they can. So I learned a lot from Chris Voss, obviously basic level, like sales skills, like mirroring, you know, if you wanted to like, um, get more information, like someone, let's say, um, they share about a specific, like, oh, let's say you're selling cars or whatever, selling solar. It's like, oh man, like, My electric bill is so high. And a common skill that he teaches is like, so high? It's just mirroring, you know? So those basic strategies were really helpful for me in the early stages.

Okay, nice. What about like Grant Cardone? He's got like 100 ways to close people.

Yeah, yeah.

What do you think?

His whole mantra is like, close. It's like you're closing them or they're closing you, you know? And it's like these trite sayings that are like, okay, it sounds cool for like an Instagram post or whatever, but like get into what I call like the sales pocket. Like obviously you guys work in real estate, so like get in front of a seller and actually try to get them to sign the contract. Like it's a lot more than just, um, a lot of this like macho alpha bravado type stuff.

Sure.

So, um, obviously there's a lot of good things. I've read his stuff. Um, there's a lot of good components absolutely to it. Um, but I don't think that it works as effectively as other, like, methods, so to speak.

Right. Yeah, I've noticed that people, um, I mean, I've talked to people recently where, like, people are still using those techniques. And, you know, I get on with the seller and act like I'm not really that interested, and then they start, you know, kind of selling you, I guess, on their house. But I talked to a guy recently, he was like, yeah, there was like an agent that came by and they were just pushing me, pushing me, trying to get me to sign today, and they just shut down. And he's like, I'm not even dealing with them anymore. So I've noticed that there is the pushback, you know, it's like the sales hesitancy or whatever.

Yeah. People hate that nowadays too.

Yeah.

High pressure worked. I always tell people high pressure worked back in the day, but now everyone's like meter for that is just like their patience is like, I'm done with high pressure. And you see it a lot with wholesalers. Like, I'll give you another $1,000 if you sign today, right now. Right. You know, just try to create some level of urgency. But Again, sometimes it works for sure.

Yeah.

But it's like in sales, it's like what's gonna be most effective to close the most amount of deals possible?

Yeah. Yeah. I could go ahead.

Out of the deals that you're closing and out of the people that you're talking to, what percentage you say that you end up closing at the end of the day?

So it depends if it's like cold or if it's like, so let's do both. So cold is someone who's like never heard about us. They've never heard about you. Um, they don't even really know what it is that you have to offer. Um, so I'd say in that range, I can ebb and flow between like 10 and like 15%. Um, if it's someone who is familiar with like, um, our product or service, so like, hey, they know that we teach people how to like flip houses and stuff like that. Um, I would say I close, it fluctuates by anywhere from like 25%.

Mm-hmm.

To like my highest percent's I've ever closed is like around 50%.

Oh my good God. Wow, that's really good.

That is good. Yeah, I mean, you're on the phone for like 2 hours and you don't close anybody, you know? And I keep telling you, cut it short. Yeah, you know, it's like—

I've closed people.

You have closed people, but it's like lately you're like on that phone for 2 hours, you know?

Yeah, I like to get to know. I'm a little bit slower.

You're going into, you know, their whole History. I have a guy, I was in World War II, Alex, you know, I was in a bunker.

They tell me about that. He's like, well, it was 1964, let's start there. And I'm like, okay, here we go.

Joe's like, hurry up.

Yeah, there's got to be somewhere in the middle, you know, of like getting, getting them back on track. But for some reason, that's always worked for me.

Now, when you talk to people and, you know, let's say Because this is my kind of way to answer somebody like you on the phone would be, I need to think about it.

Ooh, that's an easy one for Justin.

What do you do with, I need to think about it? And I do talk to people every day. I mean, everybody's trying to sell me something and it's like, I just have to tell them I need to think about it. And do you ever like follow up with them? Or like you were saying earlier, if you take the deal now, I'll cut $1,000 off. If you don't take it now, it's lost. I need to think about it.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

You're like, that's not—

What, what, what, what's the response to that?

Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's funny. So I always start off with like, where does that come from? Um, so think about it. Typically what that tells me is either One, I overwhelmed the lead or the prospect, and I gave them so much information, and I just inundated and just overwhelmed them. It literally— they just tap out, and it's a genuine, like, I'm so tired. And so you've been speaking to me for a long time. You've given me so much knowledge, stuff like that, that it creates what I call literally exhaustion, where it's like they don't, in their own head, they can't even make a calculated decision. And so I first asked myself, like, did I do something like that? Did I give them so much information? Did I just inundate them and they just feel like analysis paralysis with all that information I gave them? Another thing is I asked myself is, does this lead— do they trust me? Because I think about, as we all know, I would say most of the time it's fake. It's just a way to get off the call. The only time I think about it actually does make sense is what I call like a logistical objection, where it's like, hey, I just need a confirm with so-and-so that I can sign on this, or that I'm even on title, or something like that, or just whatever. It's like a logistical thing. But so if someone's telling me to think about it, that tells me immediately, like, wait a second. I didn't build enough trust with the prospect to be able to find their underlying objection. And so those are the first questions that I'll typically ask. So in sales, what I do is a lot of prehandling. So before I ask a type of sale, Specifically in my example, I'll ask them is like, hey, do you like, do you have any questions, concerns about what we have to offer? No, no, no, no. Once we get through that, then I ask them like, now that you see our product and service more clearly, do you feel like this is something that would work for you and kind of help you get what you want? So specifically it could be like, do you feel like with our training, with our help, that you feel like you could generate enough leads or find properties on market to be able to close at least one deal? And if they say yes, I always want to do something like I call it a double confirm. I'd be like, well, why do you feel like this is something that like would work for you though? And what I just did there is now I'm trying to get them to like sell themselves on the idea.

Mm-hmm.

Because I'm trying to get them to be like, oh, the reason I feel like this would work is because I feel like you know what you're talking about. Like, you know, yada, yada, yada. And then from there, the way I eliminate a think about it, so I'm pre-handling, so I'm eliminating the think about beforehand. And so I'll typically ask them something like this. So if you do feel like Alex, that this is something that would work for you, is there anything that's potentially, I don't know, like holding you back from taking that scary step and investing in yourself and getting the help that you kind of need? And what I did right there was I just immediately jumped to the core objection. Because if I could identify the core objection from the beginning, Maybe their objection is like, oh, it's just so expensive, or I just need to talk to a friend about it, or I just don't know if I want to shop around and find a better price. Specifically in real estate, it's like maybe this other investor can give me a little bit more money. So if I can get to those core objections, they're typically not going to give me a think about it. They're just going to be like, well, Justin, the reality is I just want a higher price or something like that. So, um, what I tell myself and when I train salespeople, I typically tell them, if you do get a think about it, That means that there's still like stuff that you need to work on. It's kind of like too late to kind of address that point. 'Cause the moment you start pushing back with someone and they gave you a think about it, they immediately will feel the sales pressure. They'd be like, oh, you're just trying to close me. I'm just trying to get out of here. And at that point, I always say it's just best to eject. Just be like, well, that's fine. That's no problem. The line that I like to use a lot, and I'll tell people to disarm people, is, yeah, man, like you can do whatever you want. Like we're not animals here. And I'll typically get like a chuckle or something like that. I'll be like, yeah, dude, You can take like a week, a month, or whatever. Like, we're not animals here.

Nice.

And I just do that just to disarm them so that they don't feel the sales pressure. And then I'll jump back in and try to find the core objection. So yeah, when it comes to think about it, typically, I always tell people, hey, you should pre-handle that, build enough trust so they tell you their core objection so that by the end, they're not giving you something weird like that. Like, I need to go think about it, sleep on it. Or it's the same idea. They're just trying to get off the phone with you.

He sees right through you, Joe.

Yeah, thank you.

Right through you.

And, and for those of you out there, we, we all do love animals. No animals were harmed in the making of this video.

That's right.

Um, talk about age groups. Who is the easier one for you to close? Somebody your age or somebody my age? Is there a difference?

I wouldn't say there's difference in age. There's difference in personality and temperaments. And so, for example, like someone, let's say, who could be young, let's say 18 years old or something like that, but they grew up in a very dogmatic household where they took no risk, then paying for any type of service to help, especially if they grew up in a context where it's like, we do everything on our own, it's a do-it-yourself mentality. It gets so ingrained in someone's personality that they could even be like 18 and still embody the same thing that like an older person may have. So it's not so much age. I look more at like personality and temperament.

Okay.

Yeah, there you go. I can see that for sure. Now, when I mean, so we kind of have the same thing. So we have cold callers, they send us these leads. Now, are you training the people ahead of you to like, don't send me garbage, send me like people that are ready to go pretty much, or do you like the ones that are kind of warm and you think you could still pull some stuff out?

I have 2 criteria. I just say they just want— need to have a desire to get into real estate. And then from there, understand that this isn't free because there's a lot of people that sometimes they reach out to our company and stuff like that, and they think that it's almost like a more advanced, like, BiggerPockets forum where they can just come in, ask random questions, and just pick your brain and stuff Like that. So I always tell them like, yeah, they just need to know that they want to get into real estate and that this isn't free. Like this is something that is a paid service for you to get training. So those are basically the 2 criteria.

Okay, amazing. Okay, then you just take them down the road. Is this like, it's the same thing? You start off a certain way, like you said, you have a framework, which is amazing because like When I have people that come work with us, I'll give them a script and a script is a little too robotic, but I think a framework is a better way to look at it. So you kind of have the flexibility to go here or there because you are having a conversation with people. So is it that the framework is just like the funnel that takes them down all the way to the close?

Yeah.

So over the years I've identified what I call avatars. So it's like I know every, and you guys engage with this just in your meetups and stuff like that. There's there's literally like a set number of personality types of people that want to get into real estate. There's those people who've been thinking about it forever. They've been dragging their feet. They keep telling themselves like I'm gonna wait till the stars align, or I'm just gonna wait till Jerome Powell or the Fed or whatever. They're always giving themselves an excuse. So like that's one avatar. It's someone who's like. I'm always waiting for the stars to align and the right moment to get into real estate or just whatever. It could be fitness coaching that I sell. It could be the person that's always like, new year, new me, or whatever.

Mm-hmm.

So essentially I've identified the types of personalities that there are, or the avatars is what I like to call it. So when someone hops on with me within the first, I would say 5 minutes, I can generally tell what type of objections that they will have. And if I can close them or not based on, yeah, just who they are as a person and stuff like that.

So this is like life skill stuff, you know, like dealing with people out and about, knowing people's personalities and how to like interact with them, I guess, interface with them to where you're not clashing and then you both come to an agreement. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, I think the first time I understood that concept was Chris Voss. He said like everything in life is a sale. Whether it's like you're trying to get your kids to go to sleep earlier or whatever, it's like, that's a sale. Or whether you're trying to tell like, hey babe, let's go to Hawaii or whatever. Like, that's a sale. Like, everything in life is a sale. So I noticed that some of the best salespeople, they have really good active listening skills and they're really able to just like be really observant and just, yeah, kind of read the room, so to speak. So yeah.

He's talking about me, Joe. Active listening.

Yes.

That's what I call it.

You know, there's a saying a long time ago, still around, those who can do, those who can't teach. Are you a doer or a teacher?

I do both.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. What are you doing? I mean, obviously you have the skills to sell somebody on these products. Are you using these products yourself?

Yeah.

So everything that I've learned, like I met you back in 2021.

Yeah.

And then I went down that rabbit hole of like, man, okay, I wanna learn, you know, real estate stuff like that.

It wasn't my rabbit hole. It was yours.

Yeah.

Okay. I just wanna make that clear.

Mm-hmm.

I gave you the information and the tools. Mm-hmm. Um, like I told somebody at lunch today that nobody listens to me at the end of the day.

People listen to you.

Like, what the heck?

Yeah, they do.

I tell you the right things, but anyway, keep going.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

So like, that's how I started with online, found BiggerPockets forums, stuff like that. Found you through that way. Um, was actually gonna pay for like some, like just mentoring program stuff out there just to kind of learn more. Um, so I started like obviously working with the company and then I was able to learn like what I know now and stuff like that. I would've never known outside of working in this context. So like, I would've never known that you could like pull lists on PropStream and look for properties that have like High equity lists or stuff like that. If it wasn't for yeah, the context I was in, so okay. I would have just done the like normal.

Specifically, I know you and your wife are flipping properties right now. Okay, so that's that's a doing doing thing. But what what brought you to that point where you decided? Yeah, I'm teaching all this stuff. I I want to do. I I want to you know flip properties.

I think it was just like a strategic decision. Like once we met you, we were like, man, that's really, we want to get into real estate. Like just in general, it wasn't necessarily even flipping properties, just like real estate. And yeah, we realized that flipping seemed like out of all the different strategies, the most efficient way to do it. Because like we bought a rental, you just put your money down. Now you're illiquid. Now you're kind of just stuck with that. But like, with flipping, it's like, oh, well, you can use hard money lending, you can borrow private money, you can use your own money, stuff like that. So I realized that that had the quickest— it came down to like when we thought about like the velocity of cash, it's like you can make like $50 grand in 5 months and then just keep flipping that kind of quicker. Um, and then it was also highly influenced by just the people that I was around. Like everyone was pretty much flipping, like even though they did other strategies, it was predominantly a flipping culture. Um, and I think that kind of what influenced me too.

Is it, is it fun to flip?

Um, fun for me because basically I send the properties that I get over to Michaela and then she comps it. Like, I'll run it too and I'll be like, I think, I think like this is our maximum allowable offer or whatever. And then, um, send it her way. And then, yeah, that's—

and Michaela's your wife? Yes. She's a real estate agent. Okay. Yeah. And she's kind of learning the ropes from, uh, Ryan, my son-in-law. And how many deals have you done with, uh, with Ryan so far, or total?

Um, we wholesaled him one deal last year. That was the first one.

Okay.

Um, right now we have 3.

3? Yeah. Okay. 3. Wow, great. Awesome.

Heck yeah, I like it.

Yeah.

Nice.

Put me on your buyers list, dog. Awesome. And then you mentioned you tried, or you did, you wholesaled out of state virtually and now you're back locally. What did you find? What would like your biggest lessons virtual wholesaling?

Yeah. Biggest lesson I realized was it's just more logistical stuff. Like I just needed more people. So for example, like being able to find a title company, all that kind of stuff that would be willing to do assignments, stuff like that. Finding end buyers. Like I tried the whole like Facebook groups route. I tried like being able to dispose something. I feel like that was harder in a more like obscure market.

Yeah.

Because if I had like a good deal like here locally, right, there's so many people I know who would buy it like in a heartbeat.

Yeah.

But it's being able to dispo a deal out of state. Like, I looked at Investor Lift and stuff like that too. But yeah, I realized that that was the difficulty. One of the difficulties for sure out of state.

So yeah, I know I'm the same way just because I like focusing on acquiring the deal, doing acquisitions, and then I just ended up JVing with people out there and then they handle all that stuff. But yeah, that's a big I guess a big part of the equation that you don't think about when you're first getting into wholesaling is like, okay, you can lock up the deal, but then selling it is a whole nother form of sellers. And then you're also dealing with investors who are going to nickel and dime you on the other side. You know what I mean? You're just trying to squeeze it out. But I think that's where partnering up with people in the area, if you could get some sort of boots on the ground out there or other investors you could team up with. But I don't know, I don't know the Indiana market too well. But what made you choose that market?

Um, there's a few reasons. I knew a guy out in that area, um, and he had shared with me that I was like, it's an up-and-coming area. And so I was like, okay, up and coming. So I just started doing some more research, um, and it was like population growth. There was— it was historically a lot of just like factory workers, um, but Samsung and GM were building like this multi- billion-dollar, like, um, what's it called, just another factory out there. And it started this, like, big influx of just, like, demand in that area. So I was like, okay, maybe I'll try to— like, my initial thought was like, okay, I'm gonna, like, try to lock up deals and sell this specifically to buy-and-hold investors because obviously the spread would be higher, um, than, like, a flipper who needed, like, much less. And so, like, that was my initial thought going into it.

Nice.

Um, and I was like, all right, I'm just gonna Try for that.

So cool. Heck yeah. Someone sent me this, um, it was Grant actually. He sent me a YouTube video that they found like a lithium mine in Nevada, some random part of Nevada, and they're gonna like start building all this stuff. So he's like, you should buy property out here, man. If I followed like all those shiny objects, I would just be all over the place.

I think the same thing's happening in Um, the Coachella Valley, Palm Springs area.

Yeah, that's why I sent you the Indio one. You didn't like it?

No.

Oh, that's too far. Do you have any buyers in Indio?

Not that I know of.

Okay.

I know a guy who could probably dispo it.

Okay.

Because he works with like a big hedge fund, but—

There we go. Yeah, perfect. That's what we want.

Yeah. Okay.

Uh, all right, we'll talk about it after. Yeah. So is your plan, I guess, for the future to get fully just like into real estate or what's kind of your endgame, you think?

In a perfect world, I always thought that that would be the case. But I just realized like for me, like real estate is so— there's so many variables I can't control that I never liked that part of real estate. Like I could do like all of my controllables are like, okay, I could spend the money, do the marketing, get in front of like sellers, all that kind of stuff. But like, I didn't know how consistently, honestly, I would just get paid. And so I was like sticking in my niche right now. I'm like, I get paid more consistently. And so it's like, I want to do a little bit of both. So that's why it's like I'm doing, and it doesn't take much time for me to do high ticket sales. Like I could spend a day just working like an hour, 2 hours.

Oh, wow.

And that's it.

Okay.

And then like I could spend the rest of the hours either just working on other stuff.

Um, cool.

It's a good job.

That is good. That's amazing. How can, uh, somebody get into that if they want to get into it? Is there like a starting place?

Um, yeah, from what I noticed is like you just have to like show your skills and it's a, it's a quick industry that like you can tell if someone's good within someone's first call. So like I can listen to someone immediately and know like, okay, you know what you're doing versus like No, you're just kind of winging it and you're like hoping and praying this closes.

Right.

Um, so yeah, it's—

Don't we all hope and pray? Yeah. It's like, is this closed yet?

Is this closed yet?

Oh, come on.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, like if you can get into it, there's a lot, like it's a huge and growing industry. Unfortunately, the industry, there's a lot of good and bad in it. Like there's obviously there's the bad stigma around it of like, oh, there's just a lot of like online gurus and stuff like that who They sell maybe more education than their, like, than their actual experience, stuff like that, which is 100% valid. And I've seen behind the scenes of a lot of just like, I would say borderline like fraudulent or just like not good.

Okay.

Business practice and stuff like that in this space. And then there's people who are really good. Like they do what is that they teach and they really want to help people. And it's a huge pro for them to have a mastermind or whatever. Because one, they make money on the education. 2, they build a powerful community that sells deals to each other, JVs a lot of deals, stuff like that. So there's a lot of momentum around that. So, but yeah, if someone wants to kind of get into it, it's like you can just— there's a lot of companies out there that you can just apply for. And from day one, the company will know, like they can start someone off as even just like a beginner role because they're always hiring. It's all— the industry is like all commission only, pretty much.

Okay.

And so it's an industry that you can easily get hired, but it's a matter of, are you going to make money and close deals?

Right. I guess, and maybe other certain companies have better training programs than others. Do people have a natural ability, would you say, when you're first getting started? Or is it a skill that you can learn and hone, and anyone can be good at it?

That's like asking if you can teach someone social awareness. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Same with sales. It's like there are certain, like I would say base level is like just scripting, you know, like saying certain words like on a call can obviously lead the sale. And then from there you get tonalities, like how do you say it? How do you deliver it? And then from there is being able to read someone to then know like, okay, what you should say when, all that kind of stuff. So there are things that I would say are teachable. To people, but then like, I don't know, I've worked with some sales reps where I'm just like, I don't think you can like sell just because not even a lack of the sales skills, just like your people skills. Like you just, yeah, I don't know. Like you just don't know that they feel uncomfortable with you right now or they don't, like you don't realize that like, I don't know, you're just being weird with them.

For sure. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Or it's just like, your voice sucks, dude.

Yeah, that's a thing.

You know, I think it's— I also think it's very important that you— I mean, if you're, you're trying to sell somebody here in the US, that you actually speak, um, English well. You know, if you have a, an accent or language barrier, it just makes it that much harder, I think.

Yeah, it does. Yeah, you're right. I mean, people pick up on it. Or, um, like the robocalls. Like, if there's a hesitation in the, like, response, people— like, you can tell right away.

I don't know, I get calls like that every day. Hello? Hello?

And then it kicks in.

Hello?

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, hello, is this Joe? Yeah, click. You're gone.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Do you have— okay, so in your, um, in the high-ticket sales, you have people that set up, um, I guess appointments. When you get on there, do you still have like red callers and people that are pissed immediately, like right off the bat, or are they usually pretty like they're ready to talk to you because they set the appointment and they get the text updates and everything? Um, like, do you get people that like, like red sellers, you know, like I guess it's more on the outbound stuff, but you'll pick it up. Yeah, that's cool.

That's cool outbound stuff, because like inbound stuff, the inbound people, they're very much like, I'm just here to see what you have to offer. And they're very distant. They're like, just tell me what you do.

Put your little presentation on and I'll decide.

Yeah, something like that. So they like to immediately from the get-go, like, just distance themselves. I think that's normal with any like inquiry for any product or service. Nowadays, people are just like more apprehensive. And so like, that's generally speaking what I will engage with for the most part.

So do you give other salesmen when you're out and about time of day, or do you know immediately what they're doing and you like can pick it apart and you're like, bro, those people? Yeah, salespeople.

Oh, I joke with Michaela and people, my friends who are in the sales industry too, that a lot of people just suck at sales.

Oh yeah.

It's just so bad that I'm like, I don't know, I go to Costco all the time and they're always like, what service do you have? You want solar? And I'm like, Oh my, like there's so many better like cold approaches that you could do like than that. That's just like what we call like commission breath. Like you just are coming off so strong and it's just like, bro, like you don't care about me.

Like, yeah.

So I've always heard, I don't know if this is true, but maybe, um, that salespeople are the easiest to sell to. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I mean, because they know, you know, what it takes to, you know, sell something, and they give you the time of day, you know. And at the end, if you're good like obviously Justin is, there's a sale.

And I'm not going to give someone objections. Like, I know that's wasting someone else's time. Like, if I want someone's product or service, like, like, I'm just going to come in and just share like, hey man, like, here's my objections, or here's like some clarifying things. And I'm not going to be someone who like doesn't move because I'm scared. Like, I'm not going to be like, okay, I think that like, you know, that could work or whatever. And so I'm scared to do it because I've been sold like I technically had like a friend sell me on like tax. Basically, we're friends and he charged me a lot of money just to do my taxes last year. But it wasn't so much like, oh, I'm not going to pay tens of thousands of dollars or whatever. It was just like, Okay, I just have some clarifying questions. Okay, here's my credit card. Um, because yeah, like, I don't— I'm not gonna waste someone's time, I feel like.

Yeah, it's like, if you can get me to pay less taxes, I'll pay you. That seems worth it.

Yeah, if they know what they're doing.

If they know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, just as long as at the end of the day I can keep more money.

That's right, that's the goal for everybody. It should be the goal for everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

It's harder and harder. All right. Um, that's why you buy a Tesla. Oh, use my promo code. No, I'm just kidding.

Um, so I can get free Supercharging.

Um, okay. We got a couple, uh, well, I don't know if anybody noticed, but we got a new screen behind us. Um, we have a couple videos from sales gurus that I wanna run by you and you tell us what you think. Oh man, that's cool.

I like that.

Yeah, I'm gonna put him on the hot seat. Um, I should have queued up the producer a little bit more, but okay, she's going right now. There's a lot of these guys going around that, you know, it's an infection.

It's an infection.

Yeah, I'm an introvert. Okay, that means I don't like getting up in front of people. Introvert would keep me broke.

No thanks.

I would rather be an extrovert than stay broke. So I changed. I'm an introvert.

There it is. Boom. Introverts stay broke. What are your thoughts?

Um, I think that's a big assumption. I mean, like, okay, just because, okay, like an extrovert is gonna increase the sales. So like extroverts are known to talk more, not listen and be rowdy. And I'm like, is that just thinking logically? Is that gonna actually further a sale? You know, I think personally, I have the opposite take. I think that introverts, generally speaking, will make better salespeople because they're more calculated and they're going to listen. Because I think that some deals you can actually close with just saying a few words.

Are you calling Andy a liar?

No, I don't think I am.

OK.

It looks like he sells gym equipment or something like that.

I don't know what he sells. Sales.

Sales training.

Sales training. Um, yeah, he's, um, I mean, obviously he's out there to get clicks. So I was looking up some other videos, like some of the videos are just like, what are you talking about? It's just insane because it's just to make you click on it. But, um, I think you're right. I think like introverts, like you can, because you're having this one-on-one, um, conversation, maybe if it's in front of a person like face to face. You'd, you know, there's people that have like debilitating anxiety, maybe that wouldn't work. But saying like, I need to be an extrovert, like I gotta come in the room and own the room and be the alpha.

I always say like, if you're selling a pillow or something like that, like if you're selling something that could just be hype and it's like $20, that's like, dude, selling ice cream or cookies. You're like, oh, you gotta eat this. And that's gonna work. People are gonna be like, oh, okay, I'll try it. It instills curiosity. But like, If you're selling like tech sales or B2B sales or some of these large enterprise sales are literally like hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's like, dude, showing up into a pitch meeting in front of like some corporate executives and being like, all right, guys. You know, it's like, dude, like context matters. It's like, okay, well, what are you selling? Okay, I do agree that extroverts can sell more if you're selling, like I always say, like pillows or something like that. Okay, that's good.

And we will put up the Mr. Pillow coupon there in case you're interested.

MyPillow, MyPillow, 20% off.

Um, Chad says he thinks Andy was a car salesman.

Yeah, he was in Oklahoma.

Oh, oh, he was an Oklahoma car salesman, bro. That makes so much more sense.

I don't know if it does, does it?

There's like—

when you go on a lot to buy a car, would you want to talk to Andy?

I think he used to be fat.

He used to be fat.

It's like shredded Andy is like a little skinny guy.

Oh, here comes Andy.

Yeah, he's like, hold on, shark. Yeah, you want this 2004 Kia?

I, I can tell the lots that I walked on.

Yeah, you need this Raptor now, brother.

Yeah, the, the lots I walked on, I can tell good salesmen You know, like pretty much right away. Um, that, you know, I was wearing a, um, a Rolex once when I went to—

Oh, it's the easiest tell. Easiest tell.

And the guy goes, ah, I really like your Rolex. You know, it's like, oh shit, I shouldn't have worn that here.

Yeah.

He lets you know. It's like when we go out to talk to sellers, um, I don't want to drive up to their You know, front of their house with my Tesla.

Yeah.

Like I park it, you know, like 4 or 5 houses down.

That's why we take the jalopy.

Yeah. We take the jalopy. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, we're just, just a couple guys.

Just a couple guys.

Yeah. I wear like the brand new, like hard hat for some reason.

Yeah.

And don't forget your clipboard. Untie one of your shoes.

Yeah, exactly. If we're out in the desert, we wear our Trump hats.

Yeah. That's right. Give people a little nod.

Yeah.

Okay, that's a good take. Um, next one, let's jump into it here. I think I know, I think I know the answer to this one.

It's so powerful.

Let me go up a volume.

That we've even changed the term. In the book, we called it effective pauses. Now we call it dynamic silence. Um, you know, as the Black Swan Method continues to evolve and as we learn this You know, and silence really comes in several doses. You know, there's a half a breath. There's a moment. A moment's 3 seconds. And dynamic silence is when you just shut the front door, you shut the heck up, and you start counting thousands to yourself and look at them. Now, don't glare at them. You know, don't, don't look like a serial killer when you're looking at them. But count 1,000s. We got people that we've trained, um, who said, I've never counted past 7. I, I go expecting to go till forever. Silence, it's so powerful.

Okay, so that's kind of, um, that's kind of a technique. Um, what's the longest silence you've given someone?

Probably around like 10 seconds or so.

Nice. You just drop a nugget and then just sit there.

Yeah. And who responded first?

You?

Um, it depends. So like, if they're giving something in their facial expression where they're resonating with me, then I can like then interject and kind of continue maybe a point that I was making. Because with every sale, Chris Voss teaches this too. Every sale, whether it goes positive or negative, um, there's typically 2 or 3 things that someone needs to believe in order to actually either why they did buy the thing or didn't. Um, and so like, if I know that like this person, um, let's say, I don't know, I'm selling fitness or something like that. And I sell like maybe more of a like expensive gym. Um, One of the things maybe that the objection is like, oh, this is really expensive. And I'm like objection handling with them. And maybe if I got to a point where it's like, hey man, like at the end of the day, like how long do you want, you know, your back pain to perpetuate? And for you to just go down the street to a local Crunch Fitness and get like crappy, like, you know, whether it's trainers and equipment, like that's just gonna cost you more in the long run. So like at the end of the day, for you, Mr. John or whatever, Like, how much is it costing you by like not having more premium services? And I could just end and just let it sit and then just let him think about it. And if he's like resonating or something like that, then I can kick in. Or I could just ask a small thing. I can invite them back into the conversation or something. But I'll use silences a lot towards the end during like what we call objection handling to let it just Marinate.

Let it sink.

Because they need to buy into that, like, 2 or 3 things, um, beliefs for resale. So, um, works with real estate too.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I love the silence. I've noticed some people, um, especially when they're starting out, they're so friggin nervous that they're just like, keep talking, and then just steamrolling the person. They're trying to answer and then they're coming back already with other stuff. And I'm listening to these calls, I'm just like, shut up, just for the love of God, let him talk.

Yeah, you'd be better off not saying anything.

Yes, absolutely.

You'd be better off.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

That's why— well, and then you get the people— this is what Joe's talking about— where I'll just be like, I'll just say like 3 words and then they're just going off, and then I'm just like sitting there just like, mm-hmm.

Oh yeah, but you have to reel them in.

Yeah, yeah, at certain points.

Can't let them go too far, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, you're going to run out of line.

Yeah, for sure. That's when the line snaps. Oh, man. So you're training people to these techniques on the side, or is that— do you have like a course or anything, or?

No. So I thought about like creating a course because people are like, hey, you should create a course. But I realized like at the end of the day, being in this space, I care more about like client results now. And so I realized that someone could watch a course, but it doesn't mean that they're integrating what it is that's like being taught. So like I only work one-on-one.

Nice.

Um, so I'm gonna take on— yeah, people who are—

Gotta get him in here training these wholesalers.

Sundays.

Sundays. Yeah. All right. Yeah, let's figure that out. That'd be cool. Um, I'm planning on bringing some more people on, so to be a part of the team.

There you go.

So that'd be cool.

Awesome.

Um, how do you— I mean, you've already built these skills. How do you keep Honing them and working on them? And is it something that's changing throughout time, like different sales techniques, or is it something that's just like an old technique that you got to rework, or how do you look at it?

Yeah, so I'd say the core skeleton of all sales processes are there. The only thing that adapts and grows over time is you get more maybe powerful metaphors or you give very common examples. So I can give one where Let's say I talk to someone who their natural fear is they have scarcity around money. And so one example that I'll give to them is like, hey, John, like, let me give you an example. There's 2 people. One person, maybe they're $100,000 in debt, but they have the right skills and connections. And then there's another person who maybe they have $100,000 saved, but let's say they work at Walmart. Give it 1 year, the person with the right skills and connections Boom, they're out of debt. The person who works at Walmart, maybe they had a good year, $110 grand saved. Give it year 2, the person that was once, you know, in debt, boom, they're at a quarter million saved. But the person who works at Walmart, maybe another decent year, $120. And what I'll typically tell them is like, the reality is most people, they'd rather be the person at Walmart. They'd rather be like, oh, I got this nice cushion and this money, but I have low-level skills. And I said, very few people who— and now typically, Ty is like, if you want to be like so-and-so, because typically everyone has like a frame of reference who they want to be like. So it's like, if you want to be like this famous investor, like a Pace Morby or whatever, it's like, dude, you have to take inventory not of your money, but of your skills and your connections, because that's what is your main problem. Your problem isn't money, it's skills. And so like, how much longer are you going to be a person that's like, oh, I just want to keep pinching pennies until, you know, I can hopefully get to my goals or whatever? So, and they'll typically end it it was something along the lines of like, yeah, those are 2 different people, but it's just a matter of like, well, who do you want to be, man? And I'll just leave it at that.

Ooh, I'll take it.

Yeah. And so that's called a reframe. So I'm trying to like literally reframe an idea that they have in their mind to believe a new concept. It's like an invitation into like a different way of thinking.

Yeah.

And then now a $10,000, $20,000 investment isn't as much in their mind anymore. Because I'll typically tell them too, it's like, well, like how long do you want 10 grand to be a lot for? Like right now with your current skills, it's a lot. But if you're closing these bigger deals, let's say if you're flipping houses or something, you're making 50, 70 grand per deal, whatever. Like 10 grand isn't as much. And then I'll do something called, like in sales, I'll teach salespeople this. I call it like a double identity. So I'll give them 2 separate identities of who they could be. And it's just like, well, who do you want to be? And it's a powerful question because it creates what I call like internal pressure in someone rather than external, like buy my product or service. You know, that's external pressure. I create internal pressure of like, dude, just who do you want to be? Because I've had people who, you know, they walked away on a call with me and they're like, no, like I'm just too scared or I can't do it. And then they come back to me later and they're like, That was bothering me. Like, that— like, asking me— and they didn't say it this way, but because I asked an identity question, like, dude, who do you want to be leading your life moving forward? And then it keeps bothering them, like, frick, man, I'm cheap as hell, or whatever, you know, and I'm not gonna hit my goals. Um, so it's like I throw a pebble in their proverbial shoe.

Yeah, well, and that's like totally true, you know, like those are the 2 people And, you know, you could have the, the, I guess, the security of having that money in the bank, but then it never grows, and it's like you never achieve actually what you want. So, I mean, yeah, it is like internal pressure, but it's also just maybe a thought that they haven't had in front of them before. Who are you gonna be, Joe?

I have a name for him, but I don't wanna say it. Oh my God.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

Yeah, just keep that to yourself.

Yeah, I don't want to create controversy.

Okay, good.

Yeah, but I call them Republicans or Democrats.

Oh my God. Yeah, that's Joe's like close.

Yes.

What are you gonna be, left or the right, brother? That's it.

You want to make America great again or what?

I do.

Yeah, make, make everybody great. It's Let's, you know, lift all boats. Yeah, you know. Yeah, not open the gates.

Okay, all right. But yeah, um, I know Joe's going political. Need to have a separate political podcast. Um, how can people— like, I guess you're only working one-on-one. How do people, you know, reach out to you to be a part of that?

Uh, they shoot me an email.

Okay.

I think you attached my Instagram or something. Yeah, I don't really post on it.

I know.

Uh, Just send me a DM.

Okay.

He's another, you know, you're the second private guy that we've had on this podcast.

Because he's doing, he's not out there like posting.

The other guy, I won't mention his name because he wants to be private, was basically said, yeah, I don't want to talk to you. Talk to Alex.

Yeah, I know.

If you need to get ahold of me, call Alex.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, I guess I'll answer your emails for you. That's fine. No, but I do— yeah, we did put your Instagram on there, and so you are reachable.

It's gonna blow up, I'm telling you, it's gonna blow up. Yeah, whatever, you'll have to answer it.

Yeah, okay, awesome. Uh, we got any, uh, comments, questions, concerns from the live chat?

I, I mean, I think Justin hit everything. Like, I'm blown away. I want to go make some sales Now there we go.

I'm always telling her to get on the phone.

She was doing a great job earlier. I heard her on the phone.

Yeah.

And then we found out she was talking to her dad.

Oh yeah, I know. Like, who's she talking to? She's so comfortable.

No kidding. It's like, wow. It's like, wow. We're both like in the, you know, the other office. It's like, who is she talking to? This is like really good. Have you been teaching her her extra stuff at home or something? But she's got all the lingo down, everything. And then And then you ask her and she goes, oh yeah, I was just talking to my dad.

I'm trying to bring him in on Alex's team. So yeah, he's been a salesman his whole life as well.

Yeah, Dad can sell. And he's got a British accent.

He does have a British accent.

That's good in these parts. That's like gold in these parts. Yeah, Americans love being sold by British people.

Yeah, that's what Piers Morgan says.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, um, that's awesome. So I guess everybody, you guys reach out to Justin if you have any questions about sales or real estate or flipping.

We do have a question that just came in.

Oh, okay.

Perfect.

Last minute.

All right. Last minute question. How do you teach your trainees how to respond to objections if somebody saw bad reviews online of your comp— company that makes them uncomfortable?

Nice.

That's a good one. So the core objection is a value objection. That's like categorically what it is. So people are threatening or concerned about the value of your product or service. Typically, the easiest way to overcome those types of objections is like, what I'll tell people is like, you know, online you could write literally whatever you want, but like, I'm here in front of you. You know, it's like, if you don't think that like, Again, whatever it is I'm selling, if you don't think that we know what we're talking about or can't help you in your current situation, like, that's totally cool. Like, I'm not here to like need you to like me per se, but like at the end of the day, it's like you're going to be engaging like with us. And so typically it is a hard objection to overcome because people come in with this like negative confirmation bias already. But if you're a good salesperson and you provide enough value on the call, They're going to be like, wait a second, there is a level of disconnect here. There's this horrible review saying, you don't know what you're talking about, you've never done whatever. And then they meet you and you're like, wait a second, this person is level-headed, they're normal, and it's maybe not that. I feel like that's kind of what overcomes the objection for the most part. It's just providing enough value on the call to where it's like people realize, okay, maybe that was just an angry person that didn't have much, like, I don't know, weight to it. So that's typically what I'll tell people is like, well, you're meeting with like me, like I'm in front of you right now. Like, if you think that that's true, cool. Like, I'm not going to change your opinion. So I'll keep like, I won't do any sales with that. I'll just do like normal human interaction. Like, I'll just be like, well, you can be the judge of that now, you know? So I find that kind of just disarming them that way. It's like, well, You can be the judge.

Yeah, that's good. I would like make up this whole backstory of like, oh yeah, it's my brother, dude. He's like, we've, we've never gotten along, and he's like, he's trying to take money out of my pocket right now, so he left that bad review. It was John like 629, right? Was that who it was?

Yeah, some people try to defend it off the bat. They're like, well, no, we tried to work it out with them and we try to do this. Like, I see this all the time on a Yelp thread. It's like, we had conversations outside of this with you. It's just like, dude, that just looks way worse. It's like, if I was selling food at a restaurant or if I was overseeing the sales of a restaurant, I would just be like— I would respond, come in, here's a free meal on us. Yeah, you'd be the judge.

Yeah, exactly.

That's gonna be more winsome for your company or your product or service long term.

For sure. I think people know, like, People don't put good reviews. I mean, rarely do they put good reviews on like a company's page. It's always like the negative stuff.

Yeah. And I'll even joke with people. I'm like, probably most good reviews are like their friends and family, you know, like just to boost up the algorithm. I'm like, dude, let's be honest here. Like most good reviews are probably that way unless they're like a Yelp leader or whatever. But like, um, yeah, bad reviews, it's like, dude, you be the judge.

Yeah.

Oh, like I'm not here to prove to you anything.

Right. Yeah, love that.

One last tip before we go. When you're at Costco and the solar guy comes up to you, just tell them you already have solar. They always walk away when I say that, even though I do have. They just walk away.

I yell, I'm homeless. Thanks for reminding me.

We say we rent and they leave us alone very quickly.

We rent. Oh, that's a good one too. Yes, that's a good one too. They're trying.

They're trying. Oh God.

Yeah, I know.

That's like every solar guy. Um, awesome. What a fun podcast. Thank you so much, Justin. Um, we'll definitely have you back here training up our noobs and, um, you know, see you at the next meetup and all that stuff. You guys reach out to Justin if you have any questions about sales, wholesaling, flipping, all that stuff. And, uh, we'll see you on the next one. Thank you.

Next week. Next week.

Next week.

Next week. See you then. If you want some more advice on real estate investing, reach out to us one-on-one.