2025-11-27 AI for Education for Hanze School, Netherlands - Joe Houghton

Just turn it around. And I'll record the session as well so that if you want to play it back and run a translation or whatever, it might make it easier. Hopefully that's okay. I'm going to share this document with Richella and she can pass it all on to you. All the stuff that I talk through today, will be in this, this Notion document. Notion is a tool which, as educators, if you don't yet know about, it's something to add to your toolkit. It allows you to create pages and jump off to other things and whatever, and I don't really use PowerPoint decks anymore. I ground certainly all my online teaching now in these Notion documents. So I can share this and publish it to a persistent web page. And that web page then, whenever I change anything in the Notion document, automatically the web page is updated and stuff. So it's a great way of kind of putting stuff together and then sharing it with people. Okay. So kind of what are we going to cover today? I mean, these are the main headings. A little bit around, you know, the privacy and the RVK law that particularly applies, as I understand it, in Holland. I don't think we should ever start looking at AI, whether it's with other educators or whether it's with students, without at least touching on responsible and ethical use of AI. Because there's definitely things we should be doing and things that we perhaps shouldn't be doing. And I think, you know, we need to learn that as educators, but then we also need our students to learn that as well. So, so we'll have a little bit about that. And then I understand that mainly you're, you're kind of in— you're using the kind of corporate version of Copilot. So I'm going to take you through a bit of the capabilities of Copilot. And then, you know, very happy to take questions as we go through. I don't know what the best way of managing that is in your room. You know, maybe, maybe if Richella kind of relays the questions from the room or whatever, then I'm very happy to take questions, whether we do that, you know, at the break or at the end or as we go through. So if you've got a question, stick your hand up and we'll figure out a way of getting it to me and stuff like that. Okay. And then down at the bottom of that document, there's some links to some of the books that I've written around AI. They're all kind of AI in education, those books. So the idea, what I'm hoping that you get out of the session today is that by the end of the session, you'll understand, if you like, you know, what the fundamentals of AI and particularly this new generative AI, what does it offer us as educators? And I'm sure some of you have been playing with this stuff for a while. So, you know, I don't know what level of AI knowledge you've all got. So I'm going to assume a fairly low level of knowledge and then everybody gets caught in the net. Okay. You should, if you haven't already gotten— be aware of this RVK law. So I've got a bit of stuff on that. And then really looking at Copilot, how you can navigate and use Copilot effectively for teaching-type tasks, putting learning materials together. And then assessment is a tricky one. You know, we can talk about assessment. I'm not going to go into huge amounts of detail about using AI for assessment right now because I don't think we're ready for it yet. Certainly in Ireland and in the UK, where I've been doing a lot of AI training, most of the educational institutions are getting more happy, I think, with teachers and educators using AI to help create material. But most educational institutions are still not happy with AI grading material, you know, putting the assessment piece on the end of it. That's kind of still our job, if you like. So we're not really going to go into that in too much detail yet. And even the European AI Act, which is now being enacted over this year and next year, you know, education is in the high-risk category for the EU AI Act. And certainly, we're not supposed to let AI make any life-affecting decisions. And, you know, every time you grade a a piece of work, that is a life-affecting decision because that grade is going towards a certificate or a degree or whatever. So you've got to have human in the loop on this stuff. But the AIs are getting very, very powerful. They're getting very, very capable. And week by week, it's changing. If I give you this talk again next year, it will be a different talk. If I give you this talk again next month, it'll be a different talk. I mean, even in the last kind of couple of weeks, ChatGPT's had a big upgrade. Claude's had a big upgrade. Gemini's had a big upgrade. We've got Nano Banana producing incredible graphics and text now. Every week, there's an advance. And just trying to keep up with it is quite hard, even if you're in the bubble like I am. So hopefully we'll give you a little bit around that. Constructing clear and effective prompts to generate useful educational content. How do we get stuff out of these AIs that's really useful? And you kind of— there's a few things you need to understand to kind of get the most out of the AIs. So I'll give you a few hints and tips around that. And then, you know, thinking about things like sustainable approaches as well. So hopefully this should, this should take us through. All right. When you get this Notion document, if you see any of these sections with the little triangle pointing to the right there, that just says that there's something underneath it. Okay, so you can, you can shut each of these sections down and open them up again.

Okay.

So the RVK law governs the processing of children's personal data in Dutch educational settings. And, you know, fundamentally, these are the key things that you need to be aware of if you're thinking about using AI in, in your educational space, whether that's to create material or to process material or whatever. Okay, you can only collect and process data that's necessary for educational purposes, and it can— if you do collect data and put it into these AIs, you should only be using it for the specific educational purpose for which it was collected. So this is, you know, this is quite an important constraint. I think that if you are gathering information which is to do with personal data of children. Yeah, that, you know, there's quite onerous restrictions on how you can use that stuff.

Okay.

And if the children are under 16, and I think, would I be right, some of your children are under 16?

Yeah.

Yeah, you're nodding. Yeah. So parental consent is required if you are processing any of that personal data in any AI system. Okay, so that's, that's important. And then you've got to inform parents and students about how the AIs are processing this data. And technical backend, you know, the IT people have got to actually put the stuff in place to make sure that this is all, this is all covered off properly. Okay, the bottom one particularly talks to Things like the possibility of using AI in assessment. Okay, there's a prohibition on profiling. Automated decision-making that significantly affects students should be avoided or require explicit safeguards. And, you know, you're no different to anybody else at the moment in Europe. Generally, this is a step further than most people have gone. We're not seeing much take-up of AI pushing into assessment, at least not formally. Now, I know there's a lot of teachers in the US who are using AI for assessment now. They are taking essays and papers that students have submitted, and the AIs are now so good at kind of reading handwriting that those can be either handwritten or they can be typed. you know, straight into the computer and are using the AIs to actually, you know, grade them. There's some very big dangers in that, and it's also fundamentally against the law based on the EU AI Act, based on your RVK Act and whatever. So if that's something you're thinking about doing, the answer is probably don't at the moment. And I know that You know, it's— I don't know where you are in your cycle, your semester cycle, but it's week 12 of 12 this week. All my grading is coming in thick and fast for the end of semester. I've got a pile of grading to get through. And yes, I could build an AI, you know, bot that I could feed all those papers in and get it all graded in an hour. Dead easy. Yeah, I could have taken the next 3 weeks off before Christmas. Yeah, but you can't be doing that because it's just, it's just not, not allowed. So, so just because we can do it with AI doesn't mean we should do it with AI. And I think that's, that's something, you know, you've got to be fairly clear where these lines are. Okay. One thing I have done, and I tried this last semester for the first time, I took one class's set of their papers, and they submit them online, so they're word-processed. And, you know, I give them a format, so all the personally identifiable information is at the top of the paper, which means it's relatively easy for me to maybe copy and paste the body of the paper without the student name and student number and identifiable information. So what I do What I tried last semester with one set of papers was I graded them as normal. I just read them through and graded them against my rubric and all the rest of it and gave my comments. But then I copied and pasted the body of each paper, and I put the rubric, and I put my approach to grading and, you know, what I was looking for into a chatbot, and I created a kind of grading chatbot, and I would copy and paste each of the body of the paper without any identifying student information into the chatbot, and then I gave that to the student along with my comments. So the AI was producing 3 or 4 pages of pretty detailed analysis, constructive critique, observation on, you know, what had been written. My comments were probably about half a page in most cases because I had like 200 of these to do, something like that. And I was very open with the students. I told them I was planning to do this before I did it. And I said, you know, are you good with that? And the class were very happy with this because they knew I was going to do the grading independently of the AI first, if you like. And then I— so I gave them my comments, and then underneath I would give them the AI comments. And it was very clear which was which and that the grade had been assigned by me before the AI had seen their work, if you like. And I got a lot of comments back from the students. in the following weeks and at the beginning of the following semester, that they found it really useful. Okay, so I think there are ways of implementing AI into assessment practice without having AI make the decisions. If you like, you can use AI as another insight into the material that's being produced. So what I did the following semester with the same group was I said, well, here's my chatbot. Okay, and I gave them my chatbot and I said, look, here's the rules that I've used to set the chatbot up. Here's— I loaded in the rubric. Here's what I look for. You know, here's what's going to be an A and a B and a C and all the rest of it. So you can see, so transparency. loading the chatbot up with all this stuff. And I gave this— gave it to the students and I said, you can use this and run your work through this before you send it in. Okay. And this is— I don't know, have you guys run into UDL, Universal Design for Learning? Is that a thing you've come across yet?

No.

Okay. Well, there's an opportunity for you. UDL has been around about 10 years, came out of a company called CAST in the USA, and it's based on kind of neuroscience and best practice in teaching and learning. And it stands for Universal Design for Learning. Okay. And what it does is it offers a series of things that you should look at when you are creating learning experiences for any level of student. Things like multiple means of representation. Not everybody learns the same way. Now we know learning styles have been debunked, but some people process information by reading it. Some people process information more effectively by listening. Other people want to engage with the material and actually do something. Other people perhaps might be more visually oriented. My daughter is an artist. You know, she's, she's 13, but she's very, very visually oriented. She's a beautiful painter and, you know, drawer and all the rest of it. So a lot of her learning goes through that visual medium. She's, she's a slower reader. She doesn't get as much out of that. So UDL says to us as teachers, don't just create your stuff that you're putting in front of your students in one form, created in multiple formats. So, you know, for my class that I teach in the evenings to people from the banks and the building societies, I create them a written primer on the night's topic. But I also create a slide deck, and I create a little podcast audio file, and also a video that they can watch. So they've got the material in 4 separate different kind of formats, and they love it. They love it. And particularly, I mean, I've— I grew up, you know, I'm 62. Okay, so when I went through school, there was none of this fancy UDL stuff. It was all— it was all like, you know, you had your textbook and you read the textbook, and that taught you what you were going to learn. Okay, it was, you know, before we all had computers and all the rest of it. And I think the, you know, one of the key things, this offering multiple ways to represent information is a brilliant way of applying AI, absolutely fantastic way of applying AI. Okay, so that's certainly one of the things that you want to look at using AI for. Is if you've got existing material in written form, if it might be a paper or it might be, you know, briefing notes or whatever, you can run that through Copilot now. You could run that through NotebookLM if you, if you're using Google and stuff, and it can create these other things, these other formats like slide decks or like audio files or like video files in a matter of minutes. And you can just put those up onto your learning management system. And the feedback I've had from my students when I've started to do this, and I mean, you know, for a given teaching session, that's maybe half an hour's work for me. So it's not a big— it's not a big on-cost to you. But the feedback that I get from my students is that they love the fact that they can consume the material in different ways. Rather than having to read a 10 or 20 or 30-page document, yeah, they can listen to a 20-minute podcast that gives them all the key ideas in a much more accessible way. And they can listen to that on the bus or in the car driving into school or to college or whatever. Okay, so accessibility is important. And making our materials accessible is important. Okay, so here's an example. I am sharing my screen. Yeah, so just let me scroll down a little bit here. Okay, so this is a little graphic that I created in Google, in Gemini. Okay, and Gemini had a big kind of update recently. Now, I can't read that at all, so I asked it to create it originally in English. So there it is in English. Okay, so this is a summary of the key principles of the RVK, okay, for, for teachers. And then when it had done the English version, I thought, well, actually my audience in a few days is, is not English, it's Dutch. So maybe I better translate it. So I said, give me the same graphic in Dutch. And that's what it gave me. Okay, now you can read, you can have a read of that and, and you Hopefully, it's kind of got it right. I don't know whether the translations are perfect, but hopefully they're pretty good. So this is another capability. My current class in college has students drawn from 20 different nationalities. I have Chinese students and Vietnamese students. I have students from all over Europe. I have students from the USA and from Papua New Guinea and all this part. This kind of thing. Changing the format in terms of translation is now just a matter of pressing the button and it will spit out a version in French or a version in Dutch or a version in German or whatever. Okay, if you do that, you make the material far more accessible for your students than if you just give them it in— if you just assume that everybody can speak English. Okay, little bit of extra work, but not a whole lot of extra work to do that. And if your, if your material isn't changing, you know, every week, every semester, and, you know, most teachers carry quite a bit of information through from semester to semester without, you know, updating it all the time, you, you might get away with, you know, 2 or 3 cycles of using that information before you've got to refresh it and then retranslate it and all the rest of it. Okay, but certainly we've never had all these capabilities before that we've got now to translate information very, very quickly like this. Okay, so another tool for you. So Notion is the one that I'm grounding this page in, but another tool is this tool called Napkin. Okay, so N-A-P-K-I-N, Napkin. And if you just search for Napkin AI, okay, let's just say that I want— I'm going to take that information. Okay, I'm going to copy that information. So let me just right-click and copy that. Okay. Now, let me jump into Napkin. And I'm going to ask it to create a new napkin. Okay, this is a free tool. No cost to this.

Okay.

And I'm just going to paste in that text. Okay, so you can take this from a paper or from your class notes or whatever. So there we are. We've got, we've got this text in Napkin. And if I highlight it, you now see on the left-hand side that little, that little lightning bolt. Okay, so I click on that now. And underneath, Napkin is working its magic and is going to now give me lovely graphics based on that text. Okay, and I can, I can represent that, those graphics in lots of different ways. So all these, these are the different suggestions. To represent these graphics. Okay. And, you know, I can, I can change the, the colors and all the rest of it. Okay. So it's a really, really good tool for generating quite high-quality graphics. And then if you want to go in and edit this graphic, it's all editable. Okay. So, you know, if I wanted to go in here and rather than consent requirements, I don't know, consent needs, Okay, I can change it. And once I've changed that, I can, I can hover over here. Yeah, and I can either save it now down as a PDF or into PowerPoint or as a PNG, or I can just pop it onto the clipboard, which is what I normally do. And then I'll flip back into Notion. And if I, if I'm in my Notion document here, and I want to just pop that in, I can just paste that in and there's my graphic in the Notion document now. Okay. So really, really quick to put this stuff in, create it, drop it into another form, drop it into a PowerPoint deck or a Word file or whatever it is and a free tool, you know, which is always good. And again, I can, you know, I can do things like resizing these documents here. So maybe I want that one and this one, next to each other on the page. Okay. So in Notion, I can do that and I can grab this and I can kind of pull it, pull it, you know, over to another side of the page or whatever. And I can put things above each other and below each other and all the rest. So Notion is a great tool that, you know, you should have a look at if you haven't seen it before. Okay. I'll just leave those where they were. Responsible and ethical use of AI. Key things to think about. How does the use of AI, let's say by students, what are the key challenges that, you know, we run into when students start to use AI? One of them that I think is rapidly going away now is, oh, students shouldn't be using AI. You know, we've got to stop them using it. If, if that's what's in your head today, you might— you, you're gonna find that they are using it anyway. Okay, all the research is telling us that whether we, whether we want them to use it or not, they are all using it. They're using it in Snapchat, they're using it in, in Facebook, and in, you know, every, every— all these social media apps have got it now. WhatsApp's got it. Yeah, it's now built into Microsoft 365. It's built into Google Docs. Okay, the, the, that horse has bolted. Okay, you've got to accept that they are going to use AI. So, so our job now as, as educators is to show them how to use it so that it doesn't replace their thinking brains, that we've, we've still got to try and introduce a little bit of friction into the, the hard bit of kind of learning stuff. All right. So take— you've got to show them the tools, and you've got to show them ways of using the tools that doesn't just give them the answers all the time, that maybe uses the, the learning modes. And, and most of the tools now have got a learning mode where rather than just giving them the answers, it will take them through a series of questions, the, the Socratic dialogue. Okay, don't assume that all the kids know all this stuff. I was, I was talking to a conference yesterday of teachers, and somebody popped their hand up, an older, an older lady, and she said, all the students are digital natives. Why do we need to tell them about this stuff? They already know it. But they don't. They don't know it, just like they don't know history and they don't know geography until we teach them. Okay, they've played with some of the AI tools, but they've not played with them in an educational context. And that's a different thing. You know, we need to show them how to use these tools, when to use the AI, and maybe when not to. Yeah, or, you know, if they are using AI, then we need to talk to them about things like academic integrity. Now, you're never ever going to eliminate some of your students in any class trying to get the AI to write their stuff for them. But what I found and what I'm increasingly coming across other educators finding is that if you are open and transparent with your student groups, and you talk about the AI possibilities, yeah, most students want to learn. There's always a few that don't. And, you know, they're just, just trying to slide through with as little effort as possible. Okay. But most students actually want to learn. And this— if so, if we're, we're having discussions with them, safe space discussions in the classroom about the fact that you, you shouldn't be passing off other people's work as your own, just like you wouldn't just copy and paste something from a paper or a book and just stick it into your, your essay or whatever without putting a reference and a citation in. I mean, I teach my students, okay, just treat ChatGPT or Claude or Perplexity or whatever, or Copilot, just treat it like you were referencing a book. Right? And when they say, well, how do you reference it then? I just say, just put the prompt that you used. So put Copilot, okay, version, you know, Copilot version 3 or whatever. Yeah, accessed on whatever date, and then just put the prompt that you use to generate the text that you've included in your piece of work. And then italicize the text or show me that it, you know, put quotes around it or whatever. Show me that that's Copilot's work and not yours. Okay, I don't mind you doing that because that's just the same as going to another paper or going to a book and finding a relevant paragraph and bringing that in and citing it. Once you show students that that's kind of okay, it doesn't stop them thinking. It's just a different source of information for them to go to. Now, the next stage after that is to have them to do that in the class a few times and see whether you can find some hallucinations, see whether you can find some, something that the Copilot or ChatGPT comes up with and you know it's not really very good or it's not right or whatever. So teaching the students to critically analyze the information that they're being given, because it, it, to somebody who doesn't know a subject, the AIs look magic. Yeah, I, you know, I've said since, since ChatGPT first came out into the public, I keep saying it and I believe it's true. The people who get most out of AI are the people who are already subject matter experts because you've got enough of a knowledge and a grasp of the subject to know when what you're given by the AI isn't right. Yeah, students don't have that. The AI gives them this amazing amount of stuff and they assume that it's all true. So again, one of the things that we have to do early on in the course, you know, I, I do a full 3-hour session with my master's students on using AI and going through all this stuff. You might do it 2 or 3 times over, you know, a number of sessions or whatever, but you've got to take them through this process, this critical thinking process of Can I believe all this information? And show them how to go and fact-check, you know, get a fact verified by 2 or 3 different sources, as if they were journalists, for instance. And I've done this with kind of high school kids, you know, 15, 16, 17-year-olds and stuff. I've kind of said, right, okay, right, we're gonna pretend we're journalists. Okay, now we're gonna fact-check this story, you know, and I've created it, I've created a story in AI or whatever. And some of the facts are wrong, and some of the facts are right. And and we kind of split into teams and make it a competition or whatever, you know, put a little prize up. Everybody gets a chocolate bar for the team that win or whatever. And it lights the class up because now they're going off and I'm saying, go and use the AIs and go and use Google and go and use whatever you like to find out whether this is all true or not. And then come back and prove it.

Yeah.

And it can light a classroom up, this kind of stuff. Okay. I've included in the page here, this is, this is a page from one of my, my module outlines. And it's a page that I just put in on artificial intelligence. Yeah. And, you know, I'm saying, look, I want you to use this stuff because I do, because it's now part of the toolset. And saying don't use it is a waste of time, complete waste of time. Okay, they are going to use it whether you like it or not. But ethical principles haven't changed. So, you know, remind them what plagiarism actually means. Okay, and that accounts for stuff from ChatGPT just as much as it, you know, is from a book or from a paper or whatever. Don't blindly assume responses from the chatbot are always correct. Okay, and then what I've also got them all to do now is they have to put at the top of any submitted assignment, they have to put a statement telling me how they have used the AI. Okay, so what AIs have you used and what kind of prompts did you put in? Did you use it just for knowledge gathering. Did you— I've got a lot of students with English as a second or third language. A lot of students are using it. They're saying, I'm doing my research in Chinese, but then, you know, I find it quite difficult writing in formal business English. So, you know, I'm writing it out and then I'm getting it translated by the AI. Okay, now, you know, really it's the thought process, isn't it, of getting to the information that is the key thing. So if the challenge is translating it into English, okay, you know, if they declare that within the stuff that they're doing for me, that's okay. Now, if they're in an English class, then that might not be okay. So you've got to adjust your guidelines, if you like, and your expectations that you give to students around the material that you're covering and what the competencies and skills that you're asking the students to develop and show mastery of. That's kind of key, that you've got to kind of know that before you start to kind of tell them what they can and can't do. But, you know, putting this out has resulted in 90% of my students now declare the use of AI Because they know it's safe. They know it's something that's okay in my class. And it's not okay in all the teachers' and all the professors' classes. And that comes out a lot as well. You know, we're 3 years into, you know, it was November 2022 when ChatGPT first hit the public consciousness. We're 3 years in now. Yeah, and some, some educators are still kind of trying to pretend it never happened. You know, it's like King Canute holding back the sea. You can't. It's coming in and there's nothing you can do about it. Okay, so, so that, you know, you've got, you've really got to embrace this as, as, as educators now. The tool that apparently you've been given or given access— most of you have got access to now— is Microsoft Copilot. Microsoft Copilot comes in 2 flavors, and it's pretty important to be very clear which one you're using. And one of them you should not use, and the other one you should use. Okay, if I, if I just flick into my browser for a minute, the free version of Microsoft Copilot is down here. Okay, so this is the free version of Copilot. Okay, and if you, if you read the URL, it's copilot.microsoft.com. And that's the one that you've got access to from your, you know, your home computer and your phone or whatever. You don't have to pay for this. Anybody can use it. Anybody can access it.

Okay.

Problem is that data is shared from using free version of Copilot. It's not kind of gatekeeping the data. So if you put in anything that's sensitive, that could end up in the general training data for both Copilot and also for ChatGPT. Because ChatGPT is one of the, the kind of underlying engines of Microsoft free, the free version of Microsoft Copilot. Okay. Now, on the other hand, and I suspect that this is the version that you've probably been given at school. This is the Microsoft 365 Copilot. Okay, so if you look at the URL, it starts M365. Okay, so it's a different URL and you are, you are, you are actually accessing quite a different tool. It might seem like it does the same thing, but it isn't the same tool. It's a different tool and it has got the security features that Microsoft have built in around when you log into your Microsoft School account. Okay, there are certain things that you can access. There might be certain SharePoints, there might be certain files in certain folders that you have access to. Okay, and this data is never shared outside of your school environment. Okay, so this is a safe space. For you to load stuff in. And even if you did load, which you shouldn't because of the, you know, the other guidelines in Holland and in Europe, you shouldn't be loading non-anonymized data, you know, data that can identify names or people specifically. But if you did, they would— that data wouldn't be shared out into the wider world. Okay, so it's a much safer place to be doing work in than the free version. You really shouldn't be using the free version of any of the AI tools if you want to protect your data from leaking out into the world, into the wider world. Yeah, and I mean, even, you know, ChatGPT— most, most people have used ChatGPT. Okay. If you use the free version of ChatGPT and you don't do anything in the settings, it's sharing all your data by default. And so are all the other free tools. You have to come down into the settings. Okay. And you can either go into settings or you can go straight into personalization. But it's, it's, there's, there's personalization here, but the one you want is data controls. Okay, you come into data controls and it's not obvious which one it is that you should be turning off, but it's this top one, improve the model for everyone. Turn that off. Okay, because that is the setting which when it's turned on will automatically share all your data. Okay, and so many people are still using ChatGPT and they haven't come in and turned that to off. Okay, and you want to do that with any of the free tools. There's some, there's a setting somewhere in, in the settings now in all the free tools that you can turn, turn off share my data. Okay, so let's come back to Copilot and let me just, just come back to Notion a minute. All right, so What does Copilot do? It saves you— primarily, it saves you time. Okay, a lot of research being done now. 29% of time on common tasks like writing, searching, and summarizing. And, you know, as educators, we're doing a lot of writing, and we're doing a lot of searching and research and summarizing information, pulling it from different sources and stuff. Okay, and 85% of users are creating better first drafts faster. And that's always good, isn't it? You know, if you can get to the end result quicker and it's better quicker, then, then you're saving time. Okay, so, so this is, this is what Copilot is good at. How many people now physically go to the library? Walk to the library? A few people. Okay. Yeah. But it's not many people in the room put their hand up. Okay. Most of us go online and they act— we access information online. Yeah. The library is a lovely place to go and study, but it's becoming less and less of a place where we go to find information. Because the old way of walking to the library and actually looking through those old index cards and going onto— into the stacks and finding a book and opening it, well, one thing, that the information's out of date in many cases because the book is, you know, years old or whatever. But it's also a very slow and inefficient way of assembling data. And the AI, the AI tools for research now are unbelievably good. And you can put in keywords and you can assemble, you know, data from hundreds, thousands of papers, books, anything which has been digitized. Now, obviously, there is a corpus of information which is pre-digitization. There are many books that have never been digitized yet. So, you know, there is still space to go and do that physical looking up old documents and stuff like that. But for the vast majority of research that is done by, you know, modern students, yeah, online is going to be the way to do it. And the AI tools allow them to do this access much, much faster and much, much quicker. And for teachers and educators as well. But the key thing is that Copilot doesn't replace human judgment. Okay, it just gives you some superpowers to do some of the stuff that you constantly do faster and perhaps at a wider scale than you would have done previously. For many years, Google Scholar was the, was the go-to. Yeah, you know, if we want— if we wanted information, um, you know, academic information or whatever, you'd go into Google Scholar, you'd type in your keywords, and it would give you a list of links and sources. And you can still do that, but there are tools now that can read, you know, 1,000, 2,000 journal articles and synthesize, right? They figure out from the keywords or from your prompt Okay, which are the actually the the top five or the top ten articles, and it'll access them. But then what it'll do is it'll it'll pull out all the abstracts or all the you know the central meaning of those articles for you, and it'll present that in a little report for you. Now that might have taken you a day to do previously, and you can now do it in fifteen minutes. And if you collate known data into notebooks in Copilot or in, you know, notebooks in NotebookLM with Google. Yeah, you've got good known data which you can then draw on and do amazing things with. So Copilot is built in now to Word, to Excel, to PowerPoint, To Outlook and Teams and whatever, and it's getting better and better and better. Now, one downside of Copilot, and they are consciously adopting this approach to AI, Microsoft. Okay, they said about six months ago, they said we are consciously not going to be. At the bleeding edge of what can be done with AI, with Microsoft Copilot. So if you want, if you're one of those nerds like me that want to play with the latest greatest toys that only came out yesterday, Copilot is not where you want to be. Okay, Copilot is going to be 3 to 6 months behind the bleeding edge. So if you want to go play, you probably want to be in Google Gemini. You want to be in Claude. You want to be in Perplexity. ChatGPT as well, you know, is up there. But Gemini is the one that's kind of probably at the front of the pack right now.

Okay.

Copilot strategically are making themselves 3 to 6 months behind that curve. And what they're saying is what we're going to do is watch the bleeding edge and see what technologies come in and what possibilities come in. And then we will test them and we will fold them into the Copilot toolset a few months later. And that's what we're seeing now. So if you see something amazing come in in Google Gemini or in ChatGPT or Claude or whatever, and you're thinking, Oh God, I wish I could, wish I had that, you know? Yeah, just wait 3 months and it'll appear in Copilot in a few months' time.

Yeah.

And I know, I mean, AI is a bit like, I mean, I feel like a kid in a sweet shop. Every day I wake up and there's something new for me to play with. And it's just like, it's never been like this in tech for so many years. It's absolutely wonderful. But if you just have a little bit of patience, the good stuff will come through. They dropped, you know, the ability to create better graphics and slides and things a couple of weeks ago in Copilot. The slide generation in PowerPoint has been underwhelming, to say the least, so far compared to what some of the other tools can do. But they've just upped their game on that. Word has got much better. Copilot can do more things now in a document than it could. And I, you know, I was wondering whether they were ever going to build in any of the new smarts, but they came through again. So you just have to be a little bit more patient with Copilot. The upside from an institutional point of view of going with Microsoft is that the security is all built in. Okay, so that's, that's why schools and corporations generally are adopting either Microsoft, because Microsoft's been doing this stuff for 30 years, so they're a known safe kind of enterprise space for this software. Google have got an enterprise version now which they're pushing to the kind of smaller end of the market. But they're relatively new in the enterprise space. So the trust level is lower, I think, for Google by enterprise version, you know, enterprises and schools and institutions, whereas Microsoft, people trust that security. So you're not going to get bleeding-edge toys with Copilot, but just wait a few weeks, wait a few months, and they will arrive. They will come through.

Okay.

So very much you should always be making sure that you get into the enterprise version. And if I go back into it, so the enterprise version, how do I know I'm in the enterprise version? Because really, I mean, it looks pretty much the same as the free one, doesn't it? You know, I mean, there's not a lot of difference when you're in there. Free version, enterprise version. Okay. What you're looking for is that little, that little shield with a tick in it. Okay, even if you can't see the URL, that little shield with a tick in it says that you are in the enterprise version and your data is safe. So as long as you can see that shield, you're good. Right in the top right-hand corner, there's a button there. Okay, try GPT-5, GPT-5 on. If you come into Copilot and that is showing try GPT-5, turn it on. Okay, it roughly doubles Copilot's intelligence. It makes it so much better. GPT-5 is so much better than Copilot using the old version of the engine. Okay, so turn GPT-5 on if it's not turned on already. Okay, so this is the, you know, this is the general chatbot version of Copilot, and most people just use it like they've used Google for years and years and years. And this is a problem with all these AI tools. We need to retrain ourselves. Most of you probably didn't have a computer in 1998. Some of you weren't even born. Okay, 1998 was when Google Search came out, the little bar that we've been typing questions into for the last 30-odd years, and we've been getting a series of links back from. Okay, and a lot of people are still using Copilot and ChatGPT and the AIs like that. We call that single-shot prompting. Ask a question and then, you know, get a set of links, if you like. That's not how you should be using the AI tools, whether it's Copilot or ChatGPT or whatever. You should think of your AI tools as research assistants as study buddies. Okay, and you should be having conversations with them. They're not real people, but treat your AI like another person. So start it with a prompt where you're asking it to go off and do something. It'll go off and do it just like, you know, if you had a student and you said, go off and go and research this for me or whatever, they'd go off, they'd research it, they'd come back with something. Okay, and then you'd sit down with them and you'd say, yeah, this looks— this is pretty good, but you didn't quite understand what I was asking for. Now maybe that's because your prompt, your instruction to the student, wasn't very clear, right? So now you can clarify it. Now you can say, well, actually what I'd like you to do is this, or, you know, this bit's not really relevant, drop that, but I want you to add this extra bit in, or whatever. So you end up with a conversation, you end up with an iteration of prompt, response, further prompt, further response. And what you're doing is you're going from general to specific, and you're getting closer and closer and closer to the answer and the eventual artifact, whether that's a document or a presentation or whatever that you want. Okay, so this iterative conversational flow is by far the best way of getting the most out of any AI. You know, almost nobody will get what they want out of the AI first time. You very often have to go through a few iterations to really hone down on what you want. And that's true for text and that's true for images and even now video as well.

Yeah.

you're not normally going to get it right first time. Another little trick that I find very, very useful, you know, we might start a prompt and we might say, create me a lesson plan on, you know, the causes of the French Revolution.

Okay.

That's a really bad prompt. Okay, it's a very simple prompt, but it's not very good. We need some more stuff in our prompt. And if I come back to Notion for a minute, there's a little prompting framework here: goal, context, source, expectations. So I've, I've got a goal. I want a lesson plan on the causes of the French Revolution. Okay, context. So the context, who's my audience? Okay, are there any constraints here? So I might say audience is a class of 14-year-olds Yeah. And they have no prior knowledge of the French Revolution.

Okay.

So we're introducing a bit of information about the audience. We might also say in context, yeah, align this with the, I don't know, You know, the Dutch. I don't know. Is there? Is there a? Is there a? You know, a Dutch curriculum or whatever? Dutch, you know, curriculum for for fourteen to sixteen year olds. Okay. And if we say that, we could load up. We could use the plus sign here. And if you had a copy of that curriculum standard document or whatever, you could load that into the conversation and then it would be able to reference that easily. Okay, now we're in the workspace at the moment at the top here. So probably somewhere in the SharePoint or the folders of your school, you've got that, that curriculum document and If that's the case, Copilot will be able to go and find it because it's within the data sources that it's been given access to. If you haven't and you want it to go and do a wider search on the web, say, because something like that curriculum document is probably a public document, you can flick over to web. Okay, and that now opens the gate for it to go and research not just from the work documents, but also on the wider internet. Okay, but if you don't click on web, it won't— it'll only search the documents within your institutional kind of domain. Okay, so that's, that's an option there. I'm going to tell it to go to web. Okay, so we've got goal, we've got context, sources. Okay, so if there's particular documents you want to reference, you can put a forward slash in Okay, so if we, if we hit the forward slash, okay, now you're in a search function for the documents that are available to you in your work environment. Okay, and you can see that recent documents that I've used come up in this list below. But if I wanted to, I could do a search here for, you know, something. So I don't know if I just do a search for technical. Okay, then I've got a technical writing course there that I've done, and I've got, you know, some, some another document there. So you can locate, so, you know, you might put in curriculum. Okay, now I don't know what I've not, I've not got any documents about curriculum in my searchable database in this login at the moment. Okay, but that would allow it to surface documents from whatever SharePoint folders you have access to that related to curriculum, for instance. So that's just the shortcut is this, that forward slash key. Okay, up in the prompt. So that allows you to get to files. Yeah. Or if you upload a document, then you can say, you know, based on the uploaded document, and it'll know to look at the uploaded document. And then the last thing is Specify things like how you want the output to appear. Okay, so, okay, so conversational and in, you know, Gen Z speak. Okay, you know, let's, let's try and get it to kind of talk to the students in, you know, the language that they might use rather than in boring old academic language or whatever. Okay. And give me the response in both English and Dutch. Right now, let's see what that gives us.

Okay.

All right. So we've got quite a bit more now in that prompt. It's not a single-shot prompt. It's quite a— it's a more detailed prompt using that, using that that structure. So here we are, it's pulling a lesson plan together, audience, duration. Now we didn't give it duration. So it's made an assumption there. So we might go back and say, yeah, lessons, yeah, are 30 minutes in the school. Redo the plan. Okay, right. Okay, so, so now it's revised the plan. Okay, and what we're getting now is the curriculum is Dutch History Tidvak 7, whatever that is. Yeah, and I don't know whether that's right or not, but that's, that is what it's coming up with. And here we go, we've got an English version for 30 minutes with some stuff coming on. And then if we scroll down, here's the Dutch version. Really quick, really easy to generate 2, 3, 4 languages, you know, quickly. Okay. One of the nice things that Copilot has started to do is ask follow-up questions. And this is very, very useful. Okay. Do you want to, do you want a ready-to-use slide deck? Do you want a 5-second quiz? Do you want a homework extension? So yes, create everything. Okay, let's be lazy. Let's just say, yeah, give me it all. Okay, make my life easy. All right, so now it's having a think. So it's going to create a slide deck in 2 languages. It's going to create a quiz and it's going to create some homework. Homework stuff. Okay, so it's, it's having a bit of a think now because we're asking it to do quite a lot more information. While we— while it's doing that, let's just go back here. Early versions of the AIs needed you to be quite polite. Okay, you don't need to be polite to the AIs. Okay, you don't, you don't need to keep saying please and thank you and all that kind of stuff. Just, just be direct. Just be specific with what you're asking for. Okay? And Copilot particularly responds better to direct, clear instructions.

Okay?

If you want, if you're halfway through a conversation and you suddenly think, oh, I, you know, I need to do something about that geography assignment as well. Don't do that in the same chat as your French history assignment. Start a new chat. Okay, because if you continue along the same chat, it's using the prior conversation, and it's thinking that this is going to be kind of informed by that prior conversation, whereas actually you're working on a different piece of work now. Okay, so different pieces of work, start a different chat, and you're going to get a better result. Okay, and vague prompts produce generic results. So this is why I kind of give you the GCSE prompting framework, because this, this kind of takes you down the road of more clarity in your prompt. Takes a little bit longer to put the prompt together, but once you do it, you get higher quality outputs.

Okay.

Let's see how it's doing. Okay. Your full bilingual lesson package is ready. It includes a PowerPoint deck in English and Dutch, a handout PDF, a quiz PDF, and a homework PDF. Wow. Okay. Well, let's see what we get from it, shall we? So I'm going to save that down into my Downloads folder. Let's just create a new folder called Hansit. Yeah, okay, lesson package, and let's open that up. Okay, here we go. So we've got French Revolution PPTX. Let's see, let's see if that'll open up in PowerPoint.

Okay.

So it's boring, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it's given us a deck, but there's no, you know, good imagery and stuff. Okay, so there'd still be a bit more work to do here. Okay, so we would definitely need a bit more from from Copilot than this, I think. Okay. Now Copilot should appear in your bar now, up in the top right-hand corner. If you have Copilot installed, it should be in Word, it should be in Excel, it should be in PowerPoint. Okay. And the design suggestions has now been kind of replaced by Copilot as well. So this is all You know, running Copilot. So we've got design suggestions will give you different formats and options here for the slides. Okay, so you know, if you want to go with a look like that, then that immediately starts to be better, doesn't it? Yep. Or we might be able to ask Copilot to kind of redo the whole deck. Okay, so Go through the slides and give me historic, historical imagery related to the topic. Let's see. I find that sometimes this works really well, and other times it doesn't. Copilot is a little bit hit and miss. Some some days it seems to want to help you, and other days it doesn't. Okay, so now it's asking some questions. Okay, look, I don't see any uploaded file yet. Yeah, we're in the file. You know why is it not seeing it? Okay, bum bum bum. So we might have to say, you know, the the slides are loaded, and then do you want generate? Do you want new images or photographs and paintings? Okay, so use the the deck we have loaded and generate new images. Let's let's see. Let's see whether we can make it work.

Bom bom bom.

Okay, so it's reviewing the deck. Do I want realistic? Yeah, real realistic. Scenes. Just do it. Stop asking me questions. Just get on with it. Bum bum bum. All right, multiple images. It's determined to have me answer all these questions. Oh, for fuck's sake. Yeah, again, it doesn't—

doesn't—

it does like to ask questions. Please infer. But at least it gives us options for the question answers. 16 by 9. Yes. Yes, go. Okay, now let's see whether it'll give us a— okay, so you can see, you know, we've got to work at this. We've got to work at it. It's not, it's not Brilliant. Okay, but it's, it'll get you there eventually. While we're waiting for that, I'm just going to switch out into another tool that you may or may not have used so far, which is the, the Gemini tool, the Google tool. Okay, so let me just flick into Gemini AI.

Is there.

Gemini is here. Okay. And I'm, I'm gonna ask Gemini to create me a slide deck aimed at 14-year-olds on the causes of the French Revolution. Yeah, 14-year-olds In Dutch schools. Yeah, on the causes of the French Revolution. Yeah, historical imagery, please. Now, tools. Okay, so we've got various tools we can use here. I'm not going to use deep research. I'm just going to use the thinking model. Okay, 3 Pro is the thinking model. If you use fast, it's not— it doesn't do as good a job, but you now have this option of thinking. Okay, and one of the, one of the big changes recently in Google Gemini is this ability to create pretty good slide decks. Okay, and it'll, it'll also, if you click on that little down arrow when it's doing stuff, it, it shows you what its thinking process is. And I find that as an educator, using that can be really, really useful to see how it is structuring its own searches, if you like. So there we are. It's pinpointing cues, identifying figures and events, mapping out the presentation.

Okay.

And now it's structuring it. And after a minute or 2, we're gonna, we're gonna end up with a good presentation. Let's go back to Copilot and see if it's done anything. Here's Copilot. Has it generated anything for us? No. After all that, I can't generate images directly. Dum dum dum dum dum. Okay. So it's, it's not helping at the moment. And this is, this is one of the kind of common things with Copilot. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. So you've kind of got to work with it and, you know, do what you can on the day with it. Let's see, let's see what Gemini is doing. Okay, so it's generating the slides. They'll be ready in a few minutes. So we'll come back to Gemini in a few minutes.

Okay.

One of the best tips I can give you to get the most out of Copilot, let's go back into Copilot and let's just start a new, start a new chat.

Okay.

Don't just use chats in Copilot. Most of the time when you are putting together a lesson or you're putting together a piece of work or whatever, you're gonna want to do probably a number of different things, a number of different artifacts, a lesson plan and some examples and a quiz or whatever. Okay, you want to get used to scrolling down this left-hand bar and opening up a notebook. Okay, this should be your starting point in Copilot most of the time. Create a notebook, create a new notebook so you can give it a name. Okay, so we'll call this, you know, French Revolution lesson, lessons, lesson. Okay. Now, first thing you can do is you can upload information into that notebook. So you could, if you've got prior information, knowledge about the French Revolution, Marie Antoinette, Robespierre, whatever it is, yeah, you can bring that in, put those, put those files in. Okay, just drag and drop them. Docx, PPT, PDF, whatever. Okay, I'm not going to add any files to this notebook. But then under, under the lesson title here, you can add Copilot instructions. Okay, so act as, you know, an experienced history teacher of, you know, 14-year-olds. Okay, always give responses in English and Dutch. Yeah, all materials should be accessible and follow UDL Guidelines. Okay. And you don't need to tell it about UDL. It knows about UDL. Okay. So that's, that's fine. And any other general information here, you know, so like, for instance, I always say UK English. Okay. Because I was born in England and raised in the UK, whereas America— because if you don't say UK English, you get American English. Which isn't English at all. You know, it's— so if you don't want American English, you need to specify that. So you can save those instructions, and that will now materially affect what happens. What's the benefit of being in a notebook? You can now have multiple chats, and it will remember all the chats in the notebook. It'll remember all the, the information that you've added. Okay, so you can build up quite a detailed set of chats over a period of time. Yeah, you just come back into the notebook, start a new chat tomorrow or whatever. It'll remember the chat that you had yesterday and the one that you had the day before because they're all in that one notebook. So it's a kind of communal memory.

Yeah.

So as you're building up pieces of work, and this is fantastic for research work as well, because it means you don't have to keep explaining things, because with, with just a basic chat, you have to kind of start from scratch again. It doesn't know anything really about you. Okay. One thing that it did, they did add, I think, into— did they add it into Copilot yet? No, maybe they haven't. So you haven't yet, you haven't kind of Copilot at the moment doesn't really remember much about you either. Okay, whereas if you come in here and give it instructions, you can tell it stuff that you want it to know, that you want it to remember, and then any chat in that notebook, it will kind of apply those instructions to. So this, this is, makes it a much more powerful way of interacting with Copilot than just, just doing normal chats. Okay, so it's not, it's not necessarily always available there, or see, you have to scroll down a bit and notebooks. That's, that's one of the key things that you want to do. The Create button is something that a lot of people never seem to have explored. Because that's, that's down here as well. You know, most people just go straight to chat, but Create is quite good because, you know, it gives you these shortcuts to do different things. Okay, so we want to design an infographic. Okay, the timeline for the French Revolution. Okay, now you might Add some content, some background information if you want. If you've got brand kits and things like that, or you want to use a particular color scheme, we can do that. Do we want it portrait or landscape? So I'm going to say give me a wide infographic rather than a tall one. Yeah, now let's stick with the tall one for an infographic. Okay, now let's see what it'll give us. So we're having a little think. That'll take a minute or 2. What did Gemini come up with? Here's the, here's the slide deck that Gemini just generated for us on the French Revolution. Now, this is just straight out the box. Okay, it's, it's created this from that, that, that one prompt that, that, that I gave it there. It's brought in appropriate imagery. There's, there's good text and stuff. Okay. So if you haven't played with Gemini in the last 3 or 4 weeks, this is new smarts that it got very, very recently.

Okay.

So this is gemini.google.com. And it's free.

Yeah.

But, you know, bear in mind that the free tools, unless you go in and personalize them, so you've got to go into settings. Okay. And you've got to, can't remember where it is in here in settings. You've got to turn off the sharing of information. Okay, but once you've done that, then you should be able to come in and use this, and it gives you very, very good results very, very quickly. Okay, let's go back to Copilot. All right, now look at that. So it's giving us something a little bit better now. Okay, so sometimes coming down to this, this create option is going to give you, you know, faster access to good results than you would get by just going into PowerPoint and trying to use Copilot in there, or going into Word and using Copilot in there. So you see, now I could change the brand and the color, or I can add an image and it'll fold the image into, you know, the thing. But That's, that's not bad. Okay. And if I want to edit the text, this is something that Copilot allows you to do that Google doesn't yet allow you to do. So if I created that infographic in Gemini, it's just an image. Okay. But if I create it in Copilot, you've got make text editable. And now what it'll do is kind of run OCR on the image and make the text editable so that you can change it. So that That's actually one place where Copilot is slightly ahead of the competition at the moment because nobody else is actually doing that. Okay, one other tool I want to show you, and I know I've only got 5 minutes left, so just one other tool that I want to show you that I use all the time. If you've got to use the Copilot suite, then fine, you know, you won't be using this. But if you've got the ability to do stuff with some other tools as well, a tool that the best presentation tool at the moment, bar none, I think is Gamma. Okay. So it's just gamma.app is the URL gamma.app. There's a free tier and then there are, you know, paid tiers as well. But the free tier of Gamma is pretty good.

Okay.

So what have we got here? Have we got anything exciting for you guys here? Most of it's about project management and stuff because that's what I do a lot of work on. Oh, I did it. I did some sessions on design thinking recently. So, you know, here I asked it to put together a presentation on the prototyping stage of design thinking. And let's, let's just do something from scratch in Gamma. Let's create a new home. Let's just create a new Gamma. Okay, generate from a one-line prompt. Okay, so I want a 10-slide deck in traditional 16:9 English UK causes of the French Revolution. Let's see, let's see what this does. So first thing it does is generates you a quick outline and you can now drag these around. Okay, so here we are. It's giving us some, some kind of, you know, a good outline of some points and things. Okay, so there's our 10 slides. So let's say we wanted to lead with Marie Antoinette. Okay, well then we can put that a bit further up. Okay, this slide here, we can drag, put that up a slide or combine these 2 slides. We've merged those 2 cards into one. So I've now got this. Now generate. Okay, and this will now generate you a full deck with up-to-date modern-looking graphics and editable text and everything else. Okay, look, no hands. Okay, so the first thing it does is generates the slide text and then it goes back and it prettifies all the slides and makes them, makes them look good. And then over on the right here, you've got full editing capabilities. You can bring in just like in PowerPoint, you can bring in anything you like, but it's more advanced than PowerPoint and the basic initial presentation is normally of a higher level than you get from PowerPoint. Okay, it's got lots of different slide formats. Look, we're getting graphics, we're getting, you know, all kinds of lovely, lovely ways to present this information. Okay, so here's our deck. And what did that take? 15 seconds?

Yeah.

You know, we've got numbers, we've got graphics, we've got all kinds of stuff going on. And they, so as I say, all this stuff now, I can edit this, I can change, you know, any of the elements. I can change the diagrams and put videos in and charts in and all the rest of it. So Gamma is definitely a tool to have a look at as well. I think I'm pretty much out of time, aren't I? Is Richella— are you around? Are you there by the computer?

Yes. There we go.

I hope that was what you were looking for. I don't know whether it was or not, but— and I think I've sent you the Link to the Notion page. So all the stuff that's in here that I've gone through is is you can share with everybody, obviously.

Yeah, I certainly will. Thank you, Joe. Does anybody have any questions for Joe? You can ask them perhaps in a tiny bit. Even nog de vraag of jullie je aanwezigheid eventjes willen. Tekenen alsjeblieft. Mocht je geen vragen meer hebben, fijne avond nog en anders terug naar de plaats.

Thank you everybody. I don't think anybody fell fell asleep, so I'll take that as a win.

Yeah. Small win. Small win. It is the thing with the online, I guess. It is.

It's more difficult, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. So we'll have a little wait. Yeah, yeah.

Or anybody can, you know, send them in by email or whatever. Very happy to follow up if there were any.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll make sure I'll send your LinkedIn with it, that your weekly dates, your weekly newsletter.

Oh, you've gone muted. Can't hear you now. Yeah, something's been pulled out there. Maybe the mic's been turned off. Oh, there we are. You're back.

Yeah, yeah. I just switched the screen around.

All right. This is also what is if you if somebody has any questions for you.

Do you have that right away?

Well, I'm glad you pointed out the time difference. I would have been stuck, but I moved the other meeting.

He does know there still is a time difference, doesn't he?

Yeah, I thought we were on the same, but I checked a few weeks ago when you first contacted me and we were on the same time at that point.

And that was the summertime.

Now they've moved. Yeah. So thank you for that. That would have been embarrassing.

Check just to be sure. Let me send a little email.

Always, always good to be sure.

Yeah. It's a lot of registers in there at the moment.

Is that, is that kind of what you were hoping for today?

Yeah, lovely. Thank you.

It's okay.

No, it's, it's the problem remains like I told you. We're not allowed to use the nice place. Right. Let's be honest here. So yeah, of course, Copilot is not it, to be honest, but it is what we can use to get around the mountain. So it is nice to know what the possibilities of that are. Of course, it would be like a nicer thing to listen to, seeing whatever is all available and whatever is possible, but we don't—

I know, if that's the tool you've got, then Yeah. Well, how would we use it better? Yeah.

Like earlier this year, I loved the Notebook 11 one with the Notebook 11 is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. That's just tremendous. But yeah, if it's not available, we can't do it.

Yeah.

So that's unfortunate.

Well, hopefully, you know, in a few months' time, Copilot will have caught up.

Yeah.

It's getting there, but it's still, it's still a little bit. Still a little bit flaky sometimes, so yeah.

That's okay. Yeah.

Super. I'll stop the recording.