"Build Something That Matters" with guest James Boettcher CEO Righteous Gelato

You're listening to TFR, This Feels Right. Welcome to This Feels Right, and with us today we've got James Bocher. So before we jump in, James, let me check in. How are you feeling today?

Always awesome. Today is a great day.

Excellent, excellent. Well, again, I'm your host, Joel Silverstone, and welcome to This Feels Right. And for over 20 years, I've been helping people in business and sometimes in life to be more influential using their communication skills. And so what that means, listeners, is that they are able to connect to the logic and most importantly communicate to the emotions. So that the other person goes, yeah, this feels right. Listeners, if you are looking on how you're able to shift other people's ideas, behaviors, and actions without being manipulative, then this is the right place. Really great show today. We've got James Boettcher. Like I said, he is the— I'm gonna get this right because he's not just the CEO, he's the Chief Empowerment Officer and Custodian of Culture at Righteous Gelato.

Righteous Gelato.

You might know this more as Fiasco Gelato. They've just rebranded. James is also a community builder and member of Calgary's Chamber of Commerce. He's deeply involved with community interactions. James's story is great. He started by acquiring a single gelato shop in the middle of the recession with $1,800 in his pocket. He had a vision. He was going to be disruptive. He was going to— most importantly, his intention was about having honesty in his craft Innovation that charted the course for the tremendous growth success of Righteous Gelato. They've earned an awful lot of local, several, and national awards. And, you know, some of them are Best Workplace in Canada, Canada's Top Small Medium Enterprise Employers. And I've got a question for another one. Canada's Fastest Growing Companies, B Corp, Best for the World, Changemaker. I'm going to ask him a bit more about that. But if you're wondering about Righteous Gelato, I like their slogan for this, where we are in our lives, which is, you can buy happiness. Absolutely. In fact, my favorite flavors are mango pineapple and dark chocolate caramel sea salt. What I love about this brand and why not only am I having James on because we all love ice cream and we all love especially this Righteous Gelato. Righteous Gelato, which is so good because it is made with sourcing by local ingredients and no preservatives, all natural. It's also his— the mandate that they have with their philosophies in how they create their company and the people that work for them. So let's go, James, is this correct before I ask you about B Corp? Is this right so far?

Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's always fun to hear somebody talk you up and I appreciate all the kind words.

Absolutely. So B Corp, what, what is— I never heard this one before. What's B Corp? You want— you— this is one of your awards.

Yeah, B Corp certification is a fabulous thing. Essentially, when you look at how you operate your business, you're measuring all these different parts of it, but often we forget to measure what matters. And B Corp certification is this wonderful certification that the likes of Patagonia, Etsy, even Ben Jerry's Even I have some friends that have a mortgage company. They're the first one in North America. And these companies abide by this certain set of standards that talks about governance, how they employ people, their relationship to the environment. And for us, it was so magical when we happened upon the certification because it was really about, you know, we're using this business to enrich people's lives. That's our mission. And this certification allows us to measure how well we're doing there. And in our last assessment, our score was 111, which is quite high. That put us in the Best for the World category. And the cool thing about that is Ben Jerry's, who are— they're one of the forefathers of doing business right, their score is 110. So we got to notch them by 1, and I sent their CEO a little note and said, Hey, we just, we just got our score, and they had a good laugh with us. So it's a great community. And if you don't know about it, just, just Google B Corp. It's, it's where if you're, you're voting with your dollars and supporting companies, those are the companies you want to support.

Absolutely. That is a good cause. And it's, it's funny you mentioned Ben and Jerry's. I mean, I grew up with Ben and Jerry's and really fell in love with them for exactly the reasons that you're saying, which is I remember going to the Vermont ice cream factory tour and how they treated their employees and, and the fact that it was all natural. ingredients, and, and it was so good. And then, and then I met you, and then you had a lot of the same ideas and philosophies in creating your, your gelatos.

Yeah.

So let's, let's— before we get in, let's talk about the, the happiness part. Let's talk about the gelato part, and then we'll talk about how, you know, you and your organization are dealing with everything that's going on and all the changes in the world and how you've managed to keep the culture going. Let's talk about the Joy of Happiness. Let's talk about some of the flavors, raspberry lime, mango pineapple, dark chocolate, caramel sea salt. What is your passion for all this? Let's talk about that.

Yeah. I mean, the start of the journey is I was doing freelance design and this single scoop shop needed some design done. And I knew the brother of the guy that had started it. And that's really where we got rolling. And I started to get excited about business. I was doing my own thing on the side doing design and always inspired by entrepreneurs. And this business was about to sort of pack it in. And I said, why not give it a shot? So, you know, as you alluded to in the intro, I didn't have much. I didn't grow up with much. And I said, you know, roll the dice. And if it doesn't work out, at the time I was 25. And if it doesn't work out, then I'll try something else or go get a job tomorrow. And I'm sure glad I took that chance. So when we look to the statements we make, like you can buy happiness, it's kind of this ode to not taking business too seriously. I think that's one of the unfortunate things I've come to realize as we've grown into a national and soon-to-be multinational company is that there's this relationship between business that is a bit detached from those old school values or the way I know I was raised by my grandparents and my parents. And I think that's where, for me, we've had a lot of fun building it. It's not without its adversity or challenges. We've been through a lot of stuff as a company. However, when you look at it through a lens of, you know, every decision is a fork in the road to either do the right thing, literally, like just, just what feels right, as you would say, or to, you know, make a decision that is proactive in terms of the bottom line. More often than not, we've chosen this feels right. And when I was young, I used to say, you know, if we just do what's right, the money will come. And, you know, it happens that that's worked. worked its way for us. I mean, I think if we made some more corporate-like decisions, we'd, you know, there'd probably be a bit more money in the bank. But at the end of the day, we can be proud of what we've built and what we continue to build.

I think that has a huge effect on the culture that, you know, that you speak of, that you've chosen this humanity decision, knowing full well the objective, obviously, at the end, that bottom line is, you know, we want to make a profit so that everybody— we can make money. But the intentions, those small moments, it's important that everybody feels connected and working towards a purpose. And even the fact that I think, James, that you've chosen the ingredients, you haven't— correct me if I'm wrong— you haven't changed the recipe. Like, it's still about being locally sourced as much as possible, and/or importing those products that make it real, so that that mango pineapple ice cream really tastes— It doesn't have that chemical taste.

Yeah. I mean, here in Canada, we can't grow mangoes or pineapples, so we do import some of that fruit, either from India or Hawaii for pineapples, or Costa Rica. I would say the thing that has changed, or the innovation that has occurred, is the recipes in the early days were kind of— we were doing what we could with what we had. And as you continue to grow a business, if you're committed to that constant improvement, you find better ways. And I think I don't want to confuse better with doing it cheaper or with something that is maybe not true to who you are or how you started. And that's really a piece of it. So one of the things that I think I'm happy to share is we used to buy raspberries and pick through the baskets, and that's how we would make raspberry lime. And when you get to a point where you're You know, in a few grocery stores across the country and lots of people want to have it, picking through the basket is a difficult thing to do. And so we've enrolled some of our partners to do that for us. So we've got this amazing company in BC we work alongside with, and we segregate lots of raspberries that they then sort of secure for us, and then they go through basically an assurance that the raspberries are literally the best we could get. And so we're not stuck at this delta of whether or not we're going to get good ones this week or bad ones next week.

Yeah.

But we're securing it in advance. And I think those are the things that businesses sometimes overlook when they're growing or innovating is you don't have to change it for the worse. You can always change it for the better. So move that direction.

Yeah, I mean, you know, yes, innovation, because you would not survive if you were still sitting there, everybody was picking the raspberries. And then it becomes about trust, right? Find the partners that you can trust and that have near the same values as you as well.

Absolutely.

So these are a few things I want to talk about as we go forward. We're gonna talk about your appearance on Dragon's Den, and in the States this would be known as Shark Tank. But Dragon's Den is available on Netflix, so you can see James' episode on that. We'll talk about that in a bit. But first, I want to talk about the, you know, how do you become a best workplace to work in Canada? So, you know, this show is about influencing others, right, and not being the boss. So how do you create this idea of collaboration within the, within your workforce?

Yeah, I would, I would start with, you know, if we want to talk about the, the award or certification or acknowledgement. It's a wonderful thing. What happens is they, you know, you, you sort of step up to the plate. You say, hey, this is something that's important to our people. So we're gonna, we're gonna basically sign up and then they go through a huge audit of your organization and like all the things basically said about you in the world and then they do a lot of confidential calls with your team. And so they'll ask, you know, very difficult questions like, do you feel overworked? You know, do you have the right resource? Do you feel that the company and the CEO care for you? And so they can say whatever they want. And one thing that is really a thing that I get excited about Is I don't I don't ever want to tell people that that we're a great place to work. Like that's not what it's about. It's more about them telling us or telling others that's the case. And so for me, where it really starts is when I was younger, my dad was on welfare and he got put in a work placement program, and he ended up at this grocery store called Foodvale. And Foodvale, there was this manager there named Larry Kwong. He was in He's an older man and he really cared for my dad. And my dad, you know, he started as a bag boy, you know, in his adult life. And so you can imagine the shame that comes along with that. But Larry always made him feel important. And I would take the bus after school and help my dad close down the store when I was, you know, 10, 11, 12, 13. And I remember asking the gentleman that took over for Larry, Tim Douglas, I said, You know, you guys really care about my dad. You know, I want to work here. And he said, you can start on your 14th birthday. And so I did. I started literally on my 14th birthday bagging groceries for $5 an hour. But the values that I correlated between what I'd learned as a child with my grandparents and how my family had raised me, and then about how I was treated and my dad was treated in this environment, was that there really is no difference unless you make it different. So in my own life now, as I started a company, I just, I took an approach of building the company I'd want my dad to work for because I got to live it and see it firsthand as a young boy that, you know, I was probably ignorant to the, you know, the corporation and the bottom line and all these things and maybe a little bit still, but it was an easy North Star when it came to, deciding how you would make people decisions within the organization. So we have a lot of rigor in our hiring process. I think our company is probably one of the harder companies to get a job with because we just want to make sure that it's the right— and this is an overused term— but the right fit. And so it's more about, can we have difficult conversations? Can we show up for one another? If you need me to show up for you or the company too, or your family, we're always there for you. But there also will be times where the organization also needs you to show up in a wonderful way. So I would say that great places to work for me personally is a testament to enough of the right decisions. We're not going to be perfect, but along the journey, we've made enough of the right decisions around people that people are advocates for a company that they work for. And you're seeing this happen a lot in the world now where no longer is it acceptable for employers to not care for their people. And I'm excited. I mean, I'd rather be a company that's in a class of a lot of companies than sort of stand alone as a great company. And that's what we're seeing. So we try to shine our light and share what we know and our employment practices with other organizations because, uh, we go— everyone works more than a, more, more than a third of their lives. And if our parents or our loved ones, our brothers, sisters, significant others are going to somewhere for more than a third of their lives and not really enjoying that, that's, that's a tragedy in itself. So, uh, create a, create the environment that people want to come to work.

James, what I like about this is that, um, the vision that you have, or the North Star, as you say, started by watching your dad working for, uh, at this grocery store and how he was treated, uh, that made you want to be a part of it. So that when you started a business, it wasn't about like being an entrepreneur. I'm just gonna start a business because I got a great idea and I don't care.

Right.

Everybody follow my vision. Just follow me. It was, yeah, the product is one thing, But that's the outcome, and that's that's easy. We we can do this. Let's just follow its its ingredients, right? We need raspberries. We need lime. Its ingredients, but it's it's how we are going to do this. Right? The emotional intelligence part, having a high EQ about this. That as you said, the person's got to be the right fit that we can. I know that I can communicate with you if I'm having a difficulty with you. I know we can have those difficult. conversations, that it's— it sure is gonna be stressful, but I know that we can talk about it. And I know there's gonna be some reciprocity that we're— you know, feedback can be so difficult, but knowing that we have a mutual purpose, which is not just a great product, but also we also want to have a great workplace where we're respectful, I think is such an important part of that.

Yeah, you said it perfectly. You I've never defined a company by the product first. Product's part of the equation, but it's really about people and purpose. These 2 things in collaboration really are the ethos of why things exist. The product is the outcome, right? I often say to the team, if we made staplers, like something super random, we would still be a best place to work. We would still make one of the greatest staplers on the market. And I'm sure some of you at home that got a stapler that you're cursing right now, you're probably hoping that we do start a stapler company. But I mean, that's, that's the reality is it doesn't matter what you do. Everything will have purpose as long as you allow it to occur. Right.

It's why, it's why you do it, right? It's not what you do, it's why you do it. Love it.

Yeah.

Let's, we'll come, we'll come back and we're gonna go to, to the Dragon's Den in a little bit because I think this is really, this is really good about how to pitch basically.

Sure.

As right now, So many of us are in a situation we kind of have to reinvent ourselves and we're kind of thinking, hmm, it's a new normal and how, how do I talk about what I want to do next or what needs to be done? So we'll go to that, but we're gonna take a little what I like to call improv improve your communication style. Are you ready, James? I'll tell you what we're gonna do.

Sure.

All right, we're gonna do something and I'm gonna start it off by calling it yes, but. But. All right, so here's the scenario. James, I work at Righteous Gelato with you. All right, that's the scenario. You are going to brainstorm some ideas with me for maybe, maybe a couple, 2 or 3 new flavors that you'd like to, you'd like to see in 2020 or 2021.

Sure.

All right, just so you know, no matter what you say, I'm always gonna answer with yes, but.

Okay.

All right, and then we'll pause and I'll give you a chance to try it again.

All right, sounds good.

All right, are you ready?

I'm ready.

All right, so I'm ready to hear your brainstorming ideas for some new flavors.

Sure, uh, I mean, I'm a big fan of peanut butter pickle sandwiches, so maybe we could turn that into a flavor?

Yes, but I think, James, you might be the only one who is gonna buy it.

Uh, you're probably right. Okay, okay, if that one's not gonna work, uh, what about cotton candy?

Yes, but that right off the bat, my teeth cringe on that. It sounds so sugary sweet.

Right, right. I, I, I, you're probably not wrong. And then maybe I'll say one that we did once upon a time. It's a part of our history and see what you think. But Bananimal Cracker.

Yes, I don't, but I don't even know what's in that.

Bananas and animal crackers.

Yes, but that sounds like just very mushy and like I'm thinking I'm thinking about a daycare when I think about that. All right, we'll pause. We'll pause right there. All right, James, let's rewind. We're gonna go back in time. Do do do do do do do do. Back in time and now start all over. Same thing. Don't change anything. I'm always gonna answer with yes and from now on.

All right.

All right, whenever you're ready.

Sure. I think we should do a peanut butter pickle flavor.

Yes. And even though it might be limited, there probably is other people like you that go, oh my God, I've been waiting for that tangy and sweet flavor combo. That's brilliant.

Perfect. Cotton candy was my next idea.

Yes, because— and that is great because we've got the tangy and the sweet and then we've got, oh, like, you know, you think about the fair and you think about your youth. And you think about the rides and it's, it's, oh, memorabilia, nostalgia. James, you're on fire today.

Okay, last one, last one. Okay, Bananimal Cracker. Bananas and animal crackers.

You had, you had me when you said the title. Yes, and let's do that. Absolutely. That's such a fun title. It goes with the brand. We're a fun brand.

Love it.

All right, pause right here. James, how are you? How did, how did you feel when I was giving— when you were being yes-butted?

Uh, I felt like, uh, you hadn't really given me an opportunity to tell you why I thought the idea was a good idea. Right.

And how did you feel when you were being yes-anded?

Uh, I felt like maybe, maybe you were a little too excited about my ideas. So there's probably a balance there. However, I'm excited that I have 3 new signature flavors that I get to go back and tell the team that we're launching because Joel said That's right, thumbs up.

Yeah, so that's, that's a, you know, as we're talking about your, your culture being, you know, about, about communication and collaboration, it's, it's something that, that people can use as an exercise of having this yes, and mindset, which is before I dismiss the idea so that yes, but is, you know, not even giving you a chance to really talk about it, but right off the bat, no, dismiss. Yes, and even though I was very hyper and excited, yes, and is I Let's just see where this goes.

Right. Right?

Before I dismiss it, before I judge it, and as I say things out loud. So yes, that yes, and is from the world of improvisation, which is let's make an offer, accept it, and let's see where the scene goes and trust it. Kind of how you were talking about your partners with the raspberries. You're having a new partner and you're saying, yes, and I will give you the opportunity to be my raspberry vendor.

Awesome.

Let's switch gears now and go over— speaking of entertainment, let's go over to Dragon's Den.

Sure, yeah.

So this happened a few years ago, so we'll talk a bit about your experience on it, and then I'd love to hear what was the aha, you think, for the judges that they were— they all of a sudden went, hmm, this is interesting. So let's talk about your experience with it, and then Let's talk about the aha moment.

Yeah, sure. Well, it was kind of an interesting time within the organization. For anyone that has followed us for a while, you know that in 2015, 2016, we went through one of our greatest moments of adversity. We had built this amazing new Willy Wonka meets Google factory, and we had an electrical fire that essentially destroyed the facility. And that happened December 19th, 2015. And they had told us it would be 8 months for us to reopen. And there was, there was a, it was, it was very dim. It didn't seem very promising. And as we were kind of rolling through the rebuild of all these things, Dragon's Den had rolled through town for auditions and I got the note late. They had already come through and I sent them a message and I said, Hey, I know you guys have already come to town, but you know this would be really a great moment for us if if we could could make it on the show coming out of this this very difficult time. And we there was still a lot of uncertainty, so they got back to us and we got on a call. And and the good thing about the brand at that time is we we had some momentum, so we are kind of one of those brands. It's like I think I've seen that before. I've heard of you before. And so that put us in a good position where you know after a few hours on a 2 or 3 different calls, they had said, okay, we need you to fly to Toronto on May 16th to shoot this show. And no promises, might not make the air, like, you know, we'll see how it goes. And it was good because at the time we had kind of decided that, you know, we were kind of playing with house money at that time, like anything we did would be better than what we had at the moment. So we put in a lot of work, we did a lot of like fake Dragon's Den practicing. They, the group at the time, had asked me a lot of difficult questions that ended up being very useful because I had to answer similar questions on the show, watched a lot of episodes, you know, and I think there's 2 versions of Dragon's Den or Shark Tank. It's like, you go on there and it's great, or you go on there and they embarrass you. And obviously, it's not advantageous to our brand to get embarrassed.

No.

So I put in a lot of work and practice and commitment to being ready for for the show. So we had a trade show in Vancouver the day before and took a red-eye overnight and we flew in and my fiancée at the time, wife now, she— I sent her to the grocery store to grab all these props. So if you watch the episode, you see the pineapples and all these like things in this basket. And so we had her running around and on the show I had brought 2 of the team members that had been there the longest, Jake and Brit, and And we just had fun with it. We got on the show and we brought the Vespa out and we scooped gelato and we told this story about, you know, how we had started. And really, I think the aha moments for the Dragons were the product was amazing. That's one of the things I think that you have to do in those pitches is you've got to be proud of what you make. It makes no sense to not have them taste it. And so, I mean, right before we went on air, this is totally top secret, but I like— when you scoop ice cream, you know, sometimes, or gelato, it's hard.

Yeah.

And so I had scooped it a bunch so it was malleable. And so then when on the show, it's like, it's just this dance, this theater. And we had chosen mango pineapple, which you said is one of your favorites, and raspberry lime, which is my favorite. And they had it and they were impressed. And then they heard a story about our growth. And then they love the character of who we are and what we stood for. And a lot of that comes back to this people-first organization. And yeah, it was kind of funny. I mean, we did one take. I know that a lot of the companies on there have to edit and do different things and reshoot things, but we did it in one take. And we got offered a deal, and a few of the Dragons had some interest as well after We did a handshake with Jim. But by the end of it, we actually ended up not taking the deal. And I'm grateful we didn't because I think that where we went after that was a really compelling place in this company with a lot of momentum. However, I'm extremely grateful for the opportunity because when I look back on it now, it's like this was this bright star in a very dark place for us.

Mm-hmm.

reopened from the fire on May 1st, and we did a grand gesture to help some folks during the Alberta fires on May 3rd. And so there was this momentum and this energy and this kind of creating our own luck that was occurring. And now people send me messages and say, I saw you on Netflix, and we have a good laugh. And we got a letter actually during all this pandemic from a a lady, Jen Santos, her son Noah, he's sitting at home, you know, not going to school and flicks on Dragon's Den and he's watching and he's like watching the episode over and over again. And so his mom's like, what's the deal? And he's like, I just love this scooter and this guy and raspberry lime. And so she went out and bought him a pint and brought it to family dinner and the elation she said was just, It was incredible. And so she wrote us this nice letter. And this is one of the things that I'm very proud of with our organization is people take the time to just tell us how we've enriched their lives. And that's our mission. And so I took the time yesterday to write Noah a card and say, hey Noah, my name is James. You might have seen me on TV. And thank you. I mean, if there's anything I can do for you, let me know. And here's a couple pints on me. And sending you all the good vibes during a trying time. So, you know, you never know what's gonna happen. I think the lessons for me are don't be afraid. Even though the show had rolled through town, don't be afraid to make a call. What's the worst they're gonna do is say no.

Right.

Work tirelessly to be ready, to be prepared. Nothing will ever counter being being prepared for things like that, your moments, your at-bat, as Gary Vaynerchuk would say. And then also, you know, on the other side, whatever happens, whether you do the deal, don't do the deal, whatever happens in life, you know, just be glad you made a great decision. The outcome is something you often can't control. So yeah, and then a ton of gratitude. I mean, it's crazy to think that some kid named Noah out in Ontario is just Fired up over blueberry basil, raspberry lime, I don't know.

Banana crackers.

Yeah, that's it.

You know what, there's probably hundreds of thousands of Noahs out there who have watched that episode and, you know, it changed their perception of what business can look like. And I think, you know, when you're young, you kind of think, oh, business should be this middle-aged person and that's what business should be about. should have these sort of guidelines. But the fact that, as you said, business can be fun because you have an intention, because you're clear on the intention. You can't— like the yes and exercise, you can't control the outcome. You have to just sort of say yes and. And yes and to, I'm gonna reach out to Dragons' Den even though they've already rolled through town. But you know what, I got nothing to lose. It's Parking your ego aside too, right? It's like, oh, this could be embarrassing. Forget about it. If it's embarrassing, can't control that. But you did control it because you said, well, I'm gonna be prepared.

Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna have a rehearsal. I'm gonna have practice. And that's what a lot of people don't do is they don't practice before they're about to pitch. Practice with tough questions. 2, you kind of had an idea who the audience was, right? You kind of knew who the dragons were. So that, that helps as well. Well, to know who you're talking to and why they should care. The product has to be good. At the end of it, the product has to be good. But most importantly, for this to feel right, which is, you know, our tagline here, is that this— there has to be a story, and the story has to mean something to the audience. It can't just be for your own sake that you're telling this, you know, oh, woe is me story. The story has to mean something. And when it does, people want to be a part of that when the story means something. And I think, James, I think, you know, your tagline is build something that matters. And I think that's what you have accomplished with Righteous Gelato and your business and your involvement with the community is you have created something where people care about.

Thank you. That means a lot. I appreciate that.

On that note then, James, where can we learn more about— now, Righteous Gelato, you're based in Calgary. So that's where— You know, when all this is said and done, we can come visit the gelato factory. But where can we find more or get our hands on Righteous Gelato? And where can we find out more about you and your causes?

Yeah, so similar to your Ben Jerry's story, we've got a beautiful factory you can come visit and we'll give you a culture tour and you can kind of see the ins and outs of our company. And if you're looking to get your hands on some gelato, we're Fortunate enough to be in most major retailers across Canada. So if you shop at a Sobeys or a Safeway or a local Pusateri's or a Sunterra or Whole Foods, I mean, there's a lot of love for what we do. So most grocery stores will have it on the shelf. Just look for the clear jar. And head over to righteousgelato.com to find out more about what we do. And then for myself, You can— you'll find me on the internet if you just search Righteous Gelato CEO and maybe a few laughs. There's some funny, funny videos from when we started out there, and you'll probably hear a little bit about our past. And I think the big thing for me, especially during this time with what's going on in the world, is make sure that we're caring for one another, looking out for one another, supporting one another. Community is at the heart. So if I could give one message to to the group out there, you know, if I could ask one thing, it's to to look out for your your neighbors. You know, we're doing a lot with the food banks here just to make sure that people have enough to eat. And gelato isn't a substitute for a meal unless it's breakfast maybe. But but it does bring a lot of joy to people, and so that's. That's where we know we are, our mission stands true. Yeah.

Well, thank you, James. This was really a feel-good podcast for definitely what we needed to hear under the circumstances and where we are in the world right now. So thank you so much for being a guest on This Feels Right, and we will see you next week.

All right.

Thanks, Joel. Thank you so much for listening. And if this felt right and you would like to see this interview, Then come on over to our YouTube page at youtube.com/thisfeelsrightpodcast or join the conversation with our Facebook group at facebook.com/thisfeelsrightpodcast. Or if you just want more influencing tips and communication skills, then please connect with me on LinkedIn, Joel Silverstone, or come on over to Silverstone Communications at www.joelsilverstone.com. I look forward to connecting with you.