Leading Through Change

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Let's get to our show. Today's episode, Leading Through Change, because the next 5 years might be the most disruptive we've seen across industries according to the World Economic Forum. Good news, we've got someone here to help us out. We got a great guest, Chris March, former travel industry COO, and he's talking to us from Australia. He is a global leadership coach and he's going to bring us some practical tools Talk about AI. Talk about our human skills that we need as leaders. And he's going to distill it down to 5.

No, you know what? Make that 6 skills leaders are going to need to develop over the next stretch. And he's going to tie them back to everyday behaviors. Let's meet Chris March.

We are live from Australia. With Chris March, formerly from Toronto. Now here we are talking to you on the other side of the world. I'm in Toronto and you're in...

Sydney, Australia. Well, let me say, I'm actually in Cronulla, so it's right near the Sydney airport. I'm about a 5-minute walk from the beach, which is a little bit different to 5 minutes from the waterfront where I lived in Toronto. So, thanks for having me on, Joel.

Yeah, no, it's great to have you on TFR, This Feels Right podcast. And we are talking about leading through change. And specifically, we're looking at the next 5 years. And you've been talking a lot about what the World Economic Forum is sharing and giving your insights and your global perspective on this. And so, let's digest this. And I think Before, you had said something very interesting about the next 5 years. So I'm going to pass it over to you. And then let's talk about what the next 5 years looks like and what are some of the key thinking or the key skills that leaders and pretty much all of us need to start looking at.

Yes. So if anyone wanted to take a look, there was a report the World Economic Forum put out earlier this year. And high level, they stated the next 5 years will be the most disruptive across industries, careers that we've most likely ever seen. And coming from my leadership lens, I really took away the, the top 5 things that leader— leaders will really need to focus on. There was top 6 actually over the next 5 years, and I think it's really Fascinating time because everything about leadership that you've learned up until now, you have to unlearn in a lot of different ways. We're going through such a rapid evolution, of course, with the AI-driven world now as well. You really need to sharpen your edge with that. And there's all these different thinkings that you need to have as a leader to ensure that you are gonna be in demand and relevant in that, in the job market. So, It's a fascinating time. And just to share those top 5 or 6 things that the World Economic Forum shared was, in no particular order, number 1, analytical thinking, active learning, social influence— social influence is better known as leadership, how you, how you are as a leader— resilience and agility and systems thinking. And number 6 was talent development. You, you, you— what a list.

Yeah, that is quite a list. And what I liked is just before we got on, you were talking about for the next 5 years, based on these skills, we're gonna have to— our leaders are gonna have to sort of unlearn everything that we've learned. So maybe tell me a bit more about that before we get into some, some of these, some of these top 6.

Yeah. So Unlearning everything. It's, it's very interesting in a lot of different ways because I feel everything, the playbook that we've been taught, you're gonna have to unlearn that completely, which is a complete 360 in a lot of different ways. And I feel the people that are gonna thrive are the people that are going to be investing in these, in these skill sets. that have been different to what the world has demanded up until this point. So those different skills that I've shared, I think around curiosity and lifelong learning, I think those 2, if I was gonna pick 2 that really stood out, they're under the one pillar, are really, really key because the world is gonna change so, so much. And those who are curious, those who continually evolve themselves and are not stuck in their own ways, and I think you can feel this as well as you get older, Joel, is that— We get very stubborn and our thinking is very one-dimensional in a lot of different ways. And the playbook that you've thought up until this point, you need to put that to the side and really develop a new thinking. Otherwise, frankly, you're gonna really be left behind. So it's quite fascinating.

I agree definitely as we get older. I just, Chris, I just learned that it's not called the YouTube, that is called simply YouTube.

Yes, maybe early on I think Facebook was called The Facebook as well, and then they changed that. If you've seen The Social Network movie as well, they just went with Facebook.

Yeah, so, but this is exactly the kind of unlearning— like, you, you spend a whole lifetime developing these neural pathways and, uh, all of a sudden, well, I don't know, maybe, maybe since the iPhone and the internet, but, uh, but AI I think has also just had that same kind of impact that, that where we almost feel like we can't keep up. Like every day there's something new going on.

Yeah. And I'm the same. I'm doing my best to keep up with everything, learning about AI. AI is really, the way I look at it is a partner. It's a collaboration tool. It's to amplify the work that you do. It can take away the mundane manual tasks that you that you used to do and help you speed up that process as well. The thinking, the systems, everything else that needs to come from you— AI can't replicate the 30, 40 years of experience, the emotional intelligence that you have as an individual. That can never be taken away. And I think the key point that we're seeing here as AI becomes more and more relevant is that humanity is rising. And I think that's such an important skill as a leader and also communication is be authentic, be a person at the end of the day. And people are still gonna connect through human connection. I think that's the beautiful thing that I'm really seeing through this and is a big silver lining.

I agree, absolutely. Where would you say this human connection fits into these top 6 that you were speaking about before?

I think it's huge. It's, it's under the social influence pillar, I would say, is, is leadership. That social influence is helping people to get from one point to another through your own influence. That's leadership. That's huge. And I think we've complicated leadership. We've overcomplicated it in a lot of different ways. But when we break leadership down, it's about One human helping other humans become better people, working towards a common goal. That's it.

Yeah. Why do leaders get sidetracked from that? Forget about even the next 5 years, but just, you know, you and I have worked with many leaders. We've seen this over and over again. It's like humanity goes out the window. So why do they get sidetracked?

A lot of people have overcomplicated it. We also live in a rich information time. The amount of information that is shared on a daily basis is overwhelming. We've got so many different people telling you different things on how you should operate, and I think we've just overcomplicated it. And you can get in a bit of a bind just thinking about, should I do it this way? Should I do it this way? Someone else is telling me this. Someone I admire doing this. Yet when you think about it, anything when you break it down is that they're called the fundamentals for a reason. And a lot of times people skip the basics, the fundamentals. Stick to the basics. That will always ground you in being great at something.

Because you've gone around the world and you've worked with, with so many different organizations around the world, What would you say are maybe the, maybe 2 or 3 of these basics that no matter what the culture, whether it be an organization or a country, what would you say are the 2 or 3 basics for you that, that you, you feel is on, on sort of rinse and repeat?

Rinse and repeat. I think it firstly starts with showing genuine care with people. I've worked in many different cultures. Before you pull out the, the strategy deck and presentation and what you're gonna do to, to change the organization, right?

Here's my 12-point plan.

Yeah.

Yeah. Before you pull that plan out is to really listen. Before you activate any strategy, I always just sit down and listen to the people. Get to know your people is the most important thing. Connect with them as a human, understand what motivates them to go to work every single day. Joel, why are you coming to work every day? What, what is it? Is it your kids? Is it your partner? Is it— are you working towards a goal that you want to do? Do you want to retire by a certain point, or whatever that exactly may look like? And where do you see the opportunities in this organization? What's, what's working? What's not? What do you want to achieve with this? Do you, do you want to— you want my role? Do you want the next role.

Right.

Really get to understand people. And I think that's— it's coming back to the point around humanity. And I think it's, it's just a huge point is that I spoke about this at a training day on Friday, is leadership is hospitality. And if anyone hasn't read the book Unreasonable Hospitality, it's a fantastic book. It cuts through the noise when it comes to leadership. I've read a lot of leadership books, like I'm sure you have, Joel. A lot of them are heavy in theory, extremely dry. The overall theme of this book is around servant leadership and leadership is hospitality. It's about how you make people feel and the experience that people have under your leadership. That's what leadership is. It's how do you make people generally feel? How do they feel seen and how do they feel inspired? And that's what makes good leadership.

If I had a mic, I would drop it because that's exact. I mean, that's, I think you nailed it. And I love that you're looking at it from this lens of hospitality because there's even a difference in even just in the sort of hospitality world of what's customer service and what's hospitality. Hospitality, exactly. It's how you make someone feel and customer service is the transaction.

Yeah, people don't wanna feel like a transaction. You wanna feel like you've had a good experience, right? I'm sure there's so many great restaurants in Toronto as both of you and I know. It's the experience that you have when you go there that you'll be talking about that for weeks or months and then you're gonna tell that experience to someone else within your network or someone close to you as well, right? And that ripple effect will then ensure people go to that same experience. And that's the experience that you want to be giving to your people as a leader.

The example is really good, Chris, because we're planning a vacation in the winter. And so I'm going through the reviews and all the reviews are, oh, make sure you reach out to Jackie, make sure you reach out to Raul, make sure you reach— it's naming people who created the experience. It's not the pool. It wasn't the beach. It was, it was the people that made the difference. So maybe we almost need that for like leaders where it's like, oh, if you're going to work at so-and-so, make sure you reach out to leader, leader Chris, because leader Chris just like, oh, tell him Joel sent you.

And that's exactly it. Because humans they prefer to buy from brands, right, versus the company. Because again, we're human, we connect through that connection. That's what it comes down to. You feel more comfortable buying from a person. We look to social proof, as you've just shared, to validate our feelings to do, do something, i.e., a vacation, buy a product, or buy a service. You want that same experience.

If leaders could almost visualize that this is what's happening, because it is happening, it's just not being printed, right? So there's that meeting in the hallway where people are talking about you as the leader and they're basically giving you a star rating.

Exactly. It's about what are people saying about you when you're not in the room. Those are the type of conversations you want people to be having about you. And regardless of what you think or, or do, they are going to be having those conversations about you. And that's the beautiful thing about leadership. Leadership is an absolute privilege. And I truly, truly believe that. And people are always going to be looking at you, judging you, modeling what you do if you are the leader, because that's the responsibility you have as a leader.

So looking at— so bringing this back to the next 5 years, because it absolutely is a privilege and humanity, and we talked a little bit about getting signed How— what do leaders need to do in the next 5 years, looking at some of these 6 pillars, to hold on, to make sure they're holding on to that humanity? Is it the resilience and agility? Is it the active learning? Is it the critical thinking or the analytical thinking? Talent development? I mean, a lot of these do speak to that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that everything will be underpinned based on the curiosity. When I think about curiosity, I've coined this as the modern day ABCs. You may remember back in the day, or at least in my great day growing up, always be closing, always be closing is a bit of a sales mantra. So my ABCs is always be curious.

Hmm.

Curiosity is a huge thing because I'm sure if you have kids or nieces, nephews, or friends that have kids, you remember as a kid you're always curious about different things. Why is the sky blue? Why does an octopus have 8 arms? Why, why do I have to go to school tomorrow? We lose that as we get older, and I think if we can bring that back now in this current day, just to really challenge your own thinking Challenge the thinking that you're seeing and be curious towards everything around your surroundings is, is going to be really key for you. So I think it's, it's important to be curious so you can ask better questions for yourself and the environment that you're in and for the future that's in your hands.

And this goes back to one of the key, key basics you were saying, which was listen to your people. And I think we, and I say we as leaders or anyone, we've lost our curiosity because we know these people.

Yes.

And we made assumptions. And I think as people are working remotely and sort of, and getting more into their technology, that this is all the more important to really engage them and be curious because they might not be sharing as much information. Or clues and cues as to what's going on in their world.

Exactly. And I think it, it's important for you to, regardless if you're working in a hybrid environment or completely remote, have that human, human connection in some way, shape, or form, and shaping conversations where you truly are listening so people feel seen and heard, and reframe it back to people at the end of the day. That's the key part. If, if you're ever unsure of how people are feeling, ask those questions. Make them feel involved. And just simple things like, what would you think? Just basic fundamentals of coaching. And get them feel like they're part of the solution will help them make them feel more involved. And I think that's really key as we go forward, is to have that human connection. The humanity will rise. in this AI-driven world.

Absolutely. I think that's a great point. I have one final question, and that's, you were obviously attracted to this report by the World Economic Forum. What— so speaking of curious, I'll be curious, what attracted you to this? Because sometimes you might just read it and just go, meh, okay, that's good, that's interesting.

Yeah.

But you decided to really expand on that. Yeah.

So I've done a 6-part series breaking down each of the different points and some ideas to help them make them actionable. And I just think as someone who's incredibly passionate about leadership, I want to help instill those tools in others and helping myself. And I think that's the beauty of being a coach, which I'm sure you can appreciate, Joel, is the duality. You're learning through the process as you go through that with your clients yourself. And for me, it was a learning process to get this information out because I'm curious of, okay, I think I'm a great leader. Where do I see myself in 5 years? I need to sharpen the saw myself. So I'm gonna do the research. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do each of these and help myself and help others. So that's the process that I went through.

Make it very clear. Chris, this has been really a very interesting conversation. And as we sort of put on our hats for the next 5 years of what everything looks like, but, you know, again, it starts with the basics of humanity and, you know, not be closing, but be curious.

Yes. And I think the The big point that I'll leave with as well is leadership starts from within. Before you can lead effectively, you need to lead yourself effectively. So, take that time to be reflective upon yourself. That's going to be the key point over the next 5 years.

Love that. Now, before I let you go, our listeners or our listener would love to know where to reach out to you if they have any questions or to learn more about you. Where can we find more about Chris?

So the best way to get in touch with me is via LinkedIn. I post 2 to 3 times on LinkedIn. I share mostly leadership-focused content. So feel free to reach out to me via that channel, or you can also reach me via my website at chrismarchecoaching.com, all one word, chrismarchecoaching.com. Great.

Chris, thank you so much for being a guest on TFR, This Feels Right.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for listening to this episode of TFR, This Feels Right. And if this felt right, then please leave a review, comment, or ask us a question. And of course, we ask if you could kindly follow us so you don't miss an episode of impactful communication skills. And speaking of impactful communication skills, you can learn more at our website thisfeelsright.ca. I'm your host, Joel Silverstone, and happy to connect with you on LinkedIn. And we'll see you on the next episode of TFR, This Feels Right.