Coach-A- Palooza!

Have you ever wanted to influence others to shift their behaviors, ideas, or actions without playing power trip games? If so, listen for the next hour. Welcome to TFR, This Feels Right, with your host, Joel Silverstone. You'll learn the tools and concepts to influence others with everyone involved maintaining their respect and understanding so it doesn't seem like it's all one way. Now, here is Joel Silverstone.

Ho ho ho, and welcome to our holiday special TFR This Feels Right episode. We've got three guests with us. We've and so before we jump in, we're going to check in with each one of them and see how they are feeling. Let's start with Kira Callahan. Kira, how are you feeling today?

Good morning, Joel. Well, I have to say I'm feeling pretty alert, and I'm really excited because this work, you know, TFR and the work that all the coaches do is. Transformational. So I can't wait to kind of share some nitty-gritty with people.

Looking forward to it. Let's go to Gary Brennan. Gary, how are you feeling today?

I'm—

well, I'm glad you opened up with a little bit of that Santa Claus ho ho ho, because I'm a bit of a kid with a new sled just coming into this. I've long admired this show that you have going, and I'm a particular fan of Jennifer and Kira's. So this is going to be a fun and exciting time to get some time with you.

Yeah, Joel, listen, I hope those will be exciting. Yeah, me too. Let's go over to Jennifer McNaughton. Jennifer, how are you feeling today?

Hey, good morning, Joel. I am feeling very grateful this morning, actually. I think it's going to be a fun experience to chat with you guys. And on a bit of a personal note, I've come through a week where I've been battling a bit of a vicious cold, and I am on the mend, and I feel like a million bucks. So I'm excited to be here. That is something to be grateful for.

Well, absolutely. There's your Christmas gift right there.

Exactly.

Health.

Thank you so much for joining us on TFR. I'm your host, Joel Silverstone. For well over 20 years, I've been helping people in business and sometimes in life to be more influential by using their communication skills. What that means is they're able to speak to the emotions, And the logic to get others engaged. And our show is focused on the emotions because that's our first reaction. That is our gut instinct. That's that point where we ask ourselves, does this feel right? Well, listeners, you are in the right place if you want to learn from leaders, coaches, speakers. And today we've got 3 wonderful coaches who'll be sharing their examples and perspectives on how they are able to influence behaviors, ideas, and actions and not be manipulative. As you heard from the introduction from our coaches today, it is our theme today Today is Coachapalooza, our happy holiday gift to you. So we've got Keira Callahan, Jennifer McNaughton, and Gary Brennan, and myself, Joel Silverstone. And we're going to be sharing the tips, techniques, mindsets that you are going to be able to now use into 2020 to be more influential using your communication skills and not be manipulative. Some of the topics that we are going to be hitting today are going to be presentation skills, listening— why is it so important? Difficult conversations, and a special treat at the end. It's that R word that people in business organizations hate, which is role play. We're going to be sharing with you the secrets to role playing and to take the ick out of it because role play is such an important part of practice. Then, of course, we will have some other surprises for you. Let's begin. Let's talk a little bit about who our guests are. I'm going to check in with each one. I'm going to say their introduction. Kira Callahan is the owner and founder of Conversation Gym. Kira is a coach, a facilitator, a speaker working with sales and soft skills specialists and working with executives, thousands of them, and sales professionals to really master their skills and influence with integrity, which is a nice theme that we're going with our show, of course. You may have or you have already read maybe one or all of 50+ articles on Huffington Post from Kira. of them and has great many tips and mindsets. Kira, is this correct? Do I have that right?

Yes, you do. I would say the only thing that's kind of an interesting tidbit to add to that is I actually have a background in the performing arts, and I know that's something we can all relate to, but I have a background as a professional jazz singer that kind of is an interesting underpinning to the empathy and the skill set that I bring.

Absolutely. Well agreed. Thank you. Let's go over to Gary Brennan. Gary Brennan is a facilitator and performance coach, and for well over 20 years, he has been helping people on their public speaking skills. In fact, he has a company that's called Between the Words. He's also an actor and a screenwriter, so you may have seen him in quite a few different movies, and he can maybe share some of those examples of what those movies were. And he, like I said, Gary has helped thousands on their sales, Gary, is this correct? And maybe what have we seen you in?

Yes, it is correct. And I appreciate that introduction. Yeah, for— in recent performances include a— this is the holiday season, so there's a movie out there called Christmas by the Books, in which I'm portraying a paternal character in that one, or mentoring character. But there's also Molly's Game, which is an Aaron Sorkin production that came out last year. Flint, which was a movie of the week based on the conditions of Flint town and the water crisis that they face. So that's what I've been doing in the last little while, and I'm just penning away on some screenplays. It's interesting that Kyra also brings up that the performance piece in her background, and I've seen you perform, Kyra. You're wonderful on stage. You have a commanding presence. But that empathy piece is really important to me. As a performer comes through all the time because you're always trying to find an identification with the audience so that they can see you and you can see them. So there's a very, very natural tie-in between performance and actually getting everybody in the same room on the same page. So it's— I'm glad that you brought that up.

Yeah, absolutely. Let's go over to Jennifer McNaughton. And Jennifer also for close to 20 years has been sharing her passion for communication skills and she has been designing facilitating, and coaching, again, to thousands on how they could be delivering more compelling messages and drive meaningful change across Canada, the United States, and Europe. Also, I believe, a performing arts background, if you want to share that with us, Jennifer. Is this correct so far?

Yeah, you got it. It's all true.

I've had the pleasure of working with each and every one of you on so many different levels, whether it be the designing or the delivery or the coaching. And Jennifer, you and I have traveled quite a fair bit, especially in Europe as well. So I'm so glad that you could be a part of our show.

And Joel, I just wanted to jump in for a second too and say, yeah, full disclosure for our listeners, we all have had the pleasure of working together in the past. And for instance, I actually saw Jen do some clown work in the past, along with her being one of the most fiercely articulate people I've ever met in my life.

Oh, come on.

I'm not sure I can. Her clown work, basically, for people who aren't familiar with this, you have to go to such a deep state of empathy to be able to produce that work. And the courage that's involved is a really exciting kind of foundation for the communications work. And for Gary, we've got the writing that you have to delve deep into characters. And for Joel, whose passion is really about how can I disarm people with humor in order to have them break down their defenses so that we can reach them that way. I think it's just an exciting combination of coaches. Ah, Kira, thanks for that.

Thank you, Kira.

Well, it's a bit of a love fest today.

Well, clearly—

That's what the holidays are for, right?

Thank you for reading my text, Kira.

Thank you. Well, this is lovely. We are definitely going to— as you're hearing a lot of respect for each other, empathy is definitely an underlying theme to everything that we do because I think you can all agree that empathy is probably the most overused word in learning organizations. Oh, we need to be more empathetic, and probably the most underused skill.

Agreed.

We'll come back to empathy as we go through listening and difficult conversations, but let's start with presentations. skills. We've all, you know, I'm sure we've all got different ideas and different tips on, and we've all worked with different clients around presentation skills. So Jennifer, if you want, let's go backwards here and let's start with you and maybe what's a tip or an idea or a mindset or a technique that you feel is really going to be valuable for people here on how they can be more influential in 2020?

Ah, yes. Well, I think when it comes to presentation skills, 2 things jump to mind immediately.

Mm-hmm.

One would be a tip and one would be a mindset suggestion. So the tip would be about physical preparation.

Mm.

So we all have a performing arts background, so it comes very easily to us. But for other folks, that might not be what they are used to, and so they might think of their preparation as being all Mentally going over their slides, their content, their ideas. But what I personally have experienced is that if I don't train my body to deliver this message, then when my body gets to showtime and it's in a different space with lots of strange pairs of eyes looking at me, all the sort of psycho— what's the word I'm looking for? Like all the body sensations—

Right.

Are triggered, right? The natural nerves, the natural, like the palm sweating, all that stuff. And that can have an impact on your delivery. So my tip would be to prepare physically by rehearsing physically and out loud.

Hmm.

And making sure that your body also is warmed up and relaxed as much as possible before the presentation. So doing some stretches to really Be able to use your body.

And go to the bathroom.

So key. So key. That would be my tip. My mindset suggestion is embracing the idea of being authentically imperfect because as human beings, nobody's perfect. We make mistakes all the time. We have little idiosyncrasies. And in fact, those endear us to others. We love seeing someone's true self when they're up there presenting, even perhaps especially in a business presentation, because we are looking for so much cohesiveness when we are listening to a message.

Yeah.

So we want to see this person and how they feel and what they think about it. The more you can bring yourself into your presentation, I think the more compelling you will be.

Agreed. I think that last part is about you'll trust someone if they are— what did you say about being imperfect? Authentically imperfect.

Authentically imperfect, yeah.

You're going to trust them a lot more. Let's go over to Kira. Those are great. Thank you, Jennifer. Kira, what are your thoughts around presentation tips?

Well, I would say one of the keys, and it's interesting. I think definitely in a business presentation, but also anytime you want to persuade anyone. I'm going to say something which is a phrase people may have heard, which is know your audience.

Mm-hmm.

But I want to go a little bit deeper than we may necessarily consider. If you're doing a presentation or you're speaking in front of a large audience, do your research about who is in the room. I want to give you an example. I was leading a workshop a couple months ago for a medical testing company, and they had a tall order for the, the day, which was we're going to put all these different people in the room with different roles, and we need them all to learn this material. So for example, in the room I had sales executives, I had scientists, internal customer service, process, and admin people— vastly different audiences. So I actually took a lot of time to prepare for this gig, not only because I needed to master their material, but also that I needed to make sure that all the material made sense and was of value to each separate audience. So if we don't do this, you can imagine I would be speaking to something that was really interesting to the sales execs, and then 75% of the room would tune out because they would just say to themselves, this doesn't apply to me. So as you prepare, take really, you know, put a lot of attention into who is my audience and what are the different subsets of the audience and why do they care about this content I'm delivering.

Yeah, great tip because again, it's answering the question for the audience. Why should I care? What's this got to do with me? How am I going to use this?

Yeah.

Lovely. Gary, what are your ideas or tips, mindset techniques on presentation tips for us to be more influential in 2020?

Well, part of it dovetails on what both Kyra and Jennifer both said. For me, it's really about how do you create a relationship with the audience? And the way to contextualize that is with a question: what do I know about the audience that if I didn't know about them, I wouldn't be at the podium or I wouldn't be at the front of the room? And what I'm getting to is, what is the why that drives each audience member to get involved in this either profession or vocation? What is the purpose that actually has them in the room wherein they identify or express what they do in their job beyond just the normal incentives of I can earn an income, etc., etc.? I'm talking about specifically why this job? Why this profession? Because if you connect to that as a presenter, then it will change your point of view. To Kara's point, you can adjust your content. But the moment you know something specific about someone in their humanity, it changes your point of view and it creates a natural urgency and an energy in your demeanor that opens up common ground and makes you more compelling as a speaker and makes the audience more engaged As human beings, we have a sense of purpose.

What motivates us to show up at work is not for a paycheck. Where we find meaning in our work is what's going to help you in your presentation to tie into that meaning so that the audience isn't just motivated, they feel understood. Is that what you were thinking?

So clearly, yes.

This is great. These are beautiful tips. Mine has always been about those first couple of minutes of how a presentation starts. I say it has to be a strong start. It's not what you say always, but it's also how you say it because people are going to be looking at your body language. They're going to be listening to your tone of voice and how it starts. I will say people always ask me, should I memorize my speech? I say memorize the first few lines. Know that really, really well so that when you come in, you come in with that confidence and you're making eye contact and your body posture is there. Kira, I'm going to borrow from your world here, which is singing, I think, is such a great Warm-up because it gets that oxygen into the blood, it forces you to breathe deeply, it extends your vocal range, and it's been known that singing makes you happy. Is that correct?

No.

Yes, it is. I love what you're saying too, Joel, about those first few minutes. So a kind of— as a kind of a last preparation tip, something that I do When I'm working through all of my content for a presentation, I'll get it on its feet, sort of like Jen was saying before, get it into your body. But then the morning of, I will just practice those opening few slides if it's related to a deck or those opening moments. I get into my head, what is the key point I want to make right off the top? I practice that until it It's literally in my body. Then just like back in my jazz days, once I get over the hump of those first couple of minutes, I'm in. Then all the preparation takes off and I can just be present.

Lovely. Let's go over to listening skills and then we'll take a little commercial break. Let's start with Gary and hopefully your sound is good. Let's start with you, Gary, on why— listening again, kind of like empathy. Everyone feels that they're doing it. But again, it's probably one of the most underused skills. And so, listening is so important. So Gary, why is listening so important?

Well, speaking of listening, can you hear me fairly clearly now?

Who's talking? Yes.

Okay.

It's a great question. Listening or being heard is probably one of the most primal needs we have as people. If we listen more, we might get to the root of more conflict and avoid some of the consequences that have happened to us on a personal level and even on a global level. There are 2 things that are happening when you're listening. You're listening to the core content, what a person is saying. That's the physical bits. Those are the pieces that you discern, the details. But what you're also really listening for is the behavior. And you mentioned it yourself. It's how you say it. It's that physical energy that comes off. If you're not taking that body language, that behavior, that demeanor into the conversation and allow it to affect you, then you're going to miss the urgency and the point of view of the person who needs to be validated, needs to be heard, needs to have their thoughts reflected back. And if not, if you don't do that, then you really don't have any communication and you'll be at cross purposes.

Yeah, I like that. Miss— if you miss the urgency of— because we, we all want to be heard no matter what we're saying, uh, and if we miss that urgency, we're missing their need. And so they're, they're not feeling listened to, they're not even feeling heard.

Yeah. May I add one additional? I'm just starting to read Malcolm Gladwell's Talking to Strangers, and he zeroes in on this point where 2 people end up speaking at cross purposes And the conversation escalates out of control simply because of a lack of being able to be empathetic and not threatened by what is being said so that you can actually listen to what's going on. So it's increasingly critical.

What did you say about my mother?

Yeah, exactly. I'm not going there, man.

All right, Kira, what are your thoughts on listening?

I'm sorry, Joel. Thank you, Joel. A couple things. One is I want to speak to Gary's point about primal need and just share with the audience one of my all-time favorite quotes on listening. And I found it years ago on the internet, and it comes from a Mennonite minister And the quote is, the experience of being heard is so close to being loved that for the average person, they are almost indistinguishable.

That is incredible.

So the impact that we can have on people when we improve our listening skills is nothing short of transformational.

Mm-hmm.

And I also just want to say, because everyone tuning into this show is interested in the art of persuasion and persuading without manipulating, that everyone— you, me, all of us, the people we're trying to persuade, everyone in life— we all have an emotional investment in our point of view. An emotional investment. So I am really dug into how I feel about something. You're not going to be able to move me to your point of view until I trust that you understand my emotional investment. When I trust that, now I'm open to being persuaded, but not until that happens. That is what listening has the power to do.

Kira, listening is— what you're saying, listening is the gateway to be able to influence. If you miss that, then you're— Good luck. You're in a shame spiral after that, basically.

You got it. Gateway.

Perfect word. Yeah. It's true because heard and loved, it actually releases neurochemicals in our brain. It releases our oxytocin, which is when we feel loved. When we feel— I love this— when we feel really heard, it's the same feeling of being loved because we can't distinguish the difference. The chemical in our brain has just been triggered. Jennifer, over to you for your thoughts.

Wow, I am really inspired by this conversation. I love those ideas. And I think it's so key. It's sparking for me thoughts about what leadership really is.

Mm-hmm.

And the idea of servant leadership, meaning that you are there to raise your team, raise your group, raise the people that you are leading up in some way. And provide for them. That is your job as a leader. And so this idea of giving people the gift of feeling heard really aligns for me with that posture of being a leader who serves. And I think practically speaking, one way that people can try to create that experience of people being heard is to be deliberate about the use of silence. And I don't necessarily mean long, extended, protracted periods of silence, but allowing there to be silence in the conversation because it allows both parties to process. Both the person who's just finished speaking, they get to sort of ruminate for a second and go, is there anything else that I want to add here? And for the listener, it allows them to really reflect on what they've heard and extends a huge courtesy, right, to leave room for more thoughts. And silence is so rare. It's almost extinct in our world, right? We're bombarded all the time. So silence is actually quite countercultural.

I'm giving you the gift of silence.

That's what I'm saying. I'm receiving it, Joel.

And I love this, the gift of feeling heard, because now, you know what, Jennifer, you've helped me with my holiday shopping. I now know what to give everybody.

Silence, yeah.

It's just like Lucy and Charlie Brown.

Well, they say silence is golden.

It's like Lucy and Charlie Brown, Joel, in the Christmas special. You know how she sets up a booth?

Yes.

I guess she gives advice, but you could just set up a listening booth.

Yeah, I like that.

Just there to listen.

Well, listen, this has been great. We're going to wrap up listening in just a few minutes. We're going to take our commercial break. We'll be back in just a few minutes and we're going to be talking a little bit more about listening. We're going to get into some difficult conversations and talk about the keys to role-playing or taking the ick out of it. So stay tuned, listeners.

Thank you.

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Welcome back to Coachapalooza with Keirra Callahan, Gary Brennan, Jennifer McNaughton, and again your host Joel Silverstone. And we are talking about the tips and techniques and mindsets to be able to be more influential in 2020 without being manipulative. So we're gonna put a wrap on We're going to continue on listening and then we're going to get into talking about difficult conversations and then how to take the ick out of role-playing. We had some great ideas about listening. What I always say to people is you want to be able to listen for accuracy and not your assumptions. When you listen to someone, think about listening without solving a problem. Think about that you're not judging them. What you're really listening for are what are their careabouts? What is important to them? What do you see? What do you hear? One way is when we listen for a negative rant, a tip is you could turn a negative rant into a positive. Jessica says, I have no time. In your mind, you could turn it into, well, Jessica values being prepared and thoughtful and less stressed. It's also a little mindset trick on how to change that listening a bit. Before we get into difficult conversations, I would like us to do a little improv, improve your communication. So let me check in with Gary. Are you ready for this?

Yeah, sure.

Go ahead. I'm not hesitant at all.

Okay, great. Jennifer, how are you feeling about this?

Bring it.

All right, terrific. And Callahan, how are you?

Oh, I'm excellent.

Terrific. We are professionals, are we not?

That's right. So this is one word at a time. I'm gonna give a title to the story, and then we're gonna go around in a circle. We're gonna go to Kira, and then to Jennifer, Gary, Jennifer, then myself. And then we'll do it one more round. We'll do like 2 rounds. And somehow the story has to end with me. So we have to try to make sense, but you can only say one word. So this is a great segue from listening as we go into difficult conversations. We really have to be able to listen and really collaborate together. So the title to the story is, I auditioned to sing at the Opera Hall. So I auditioned to sing at the Opera Hall is the title to the story.

And I star? Keira Stark?

Correct, yes.

All right, guys, here we go. Yesterday—

Was—

The—

Audition.

When?

Everything.

Went?

Great.

Boom!

Done! I lost 10 pounds during that one. What a segue into a difficult conversation.

Well, that's exactly it. Emotions are running strong with this conversation. So, Jennifer, how did you feel doing that exercise?

You know, I always in improv have a part of me that is I was a little anxious but excited.

Kyra, how did you feel?

In that zone where all of my focus is out, so I had to be, you know, 100% present.

Yeah. And Gary, what are your thoughts?

I was holding on to your directions for dear life. There was a level of anxiety and a little bit of performance anxiety hoping I was going to understand it and then be able to commit to it. A nice microcosm of what can happen.

Yeah, yeah.

It's funny because if you listen to that story, it couldn't be any more basic. Uh, and yeah, we, we played it out so much into our head and made it much bigger than it was. But I like your comments, everybody, that it forces all of us to have to really be present because basically we want to be respectful to the other person. Uh, and we also don't want— and also our ego's at stake. We don't want to look stupid.

Okay.

That's true.

Let's segue from this to, as you said, Gary, it's a segue into difficult conversations. Gary, let's start with you and get your— we've got a little bit less time, so we'll make this a bit more of a lightning round, and we'll talk about difficult conversations here. What are your thoughts on that?

Difficult conversations, I think the first step into dealing with a difficult conversation is recognize what What the conversation is intended to serve. Who are what? What is the benefit in having this conversation? The found the way in, I believe, really has to be recognizing that both individuals who are however many are going to be emotionally charged, and they're going to bring a story before the conversation starts where they're going to be defensive. They've been thinking about it for a long while, or they're just going to be anxious. And I think you have to. You have to address the anxiety and set up an environment of respect and a willingness to listen. And that takes empathy to do it. Because until you do that, the logic of the points you need to make in order to serve another person are really going to fall on deaf ears. They're not going to be absorbed at all.

Yeah, so to address that anxiety, the empathy and listening before we start introducing logic. So it's got to feel right before we jump into the logic.

Exactly.

Jennifer, your thoughts on difficult conversations?

Yeah, you know, there's so many different tips and strategies that we could discuss. From my perspective, the one that is almost the most critical is being ultra clear on what your intention is going into this conversation. And the reason I say that is because if you are not clear, Then there is a great risk that all the other strategies that you might employ, your listening, your empathy, your silence even, all of those things could come across as manipulative or technique-y, right? So I think when we are really clear on what our intention is, not just for the problem at hand, but also for the relationship with that person, Mm-hmm. Right? We want to solve this problem, but ultimately, what do we really want for the relationship as well? And when that is really clear, that is going to inform your word choices. It's going to inform your thoughts and your impulses as you are present in the conversation with the other person.

I think when we're focused on solving the problem, as you said, in a difficult conversation, then we're just focused on trying to Right. And the intention is, you and I are going to be seeing each other again, so what do I want long-term for us? Whether it be mutual purpose or an agreement or a friendship or trust. And I think those are the intentions to be focused on.

Can I share a quick story that I think illuminates this? Okay, I'm going to try to be brief. So a few years ago, I had a family member who suddenly And they're fine now, but at the time it was quite scary. And I was sitting in this family member's room in the intensive care unit, and through the observation window I could see that a doctor was observing the patient, talking to other staff, nurses and so on. So after a few minutes, I went out and I wanted to talk to the doctor, and he never once looked at me. He sat back on the desk, he crossed his arms, and he answered my questions with one-word answers in this really casual tone. And I got so triggered in that moment because to me, this was unacceptably casual. And so then I said, well, the emergency room doctor suggested that we do XYZ, which was a bit of a mistake because it triggered him even more. But now that I'm looking back on it a few years later, I can see that in that moment, I had 2 intentions, and the less worthy intention was I wanted to put this doctor in his place, or I wanted to get him to smarten up.

Hmm.

I wanted to sort of get him to take notice of me and treat me with some respect. But really, my bigger intention was to be a better person. was, I wanna work with this doctor. I wanna communicate well to find out what the plan is. I wanna see if there's any information I can provide him. I want us to work together. And that is the intention that would really have served me. So I guess a moment of silence and a moment of reflection to just go, okay, what do I really want here?

Yeah.

Okay, I don't really want to put this doctor in his place right now. What's more important is that we work together.

Taking that beat. So whether you decide to react or to respond. So you reacted, and if you took that beat to respond would be asking yourself, what do I really want here? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Ciara Callaghan, your thoughts on difficult conversations?

Yeah. To segue from what Jen is saying, which is really— you can't get more life and death than the example that Jen shared, which really is a great instruction for us to know that when we are really heightened, we have a heightened emotion and a heightened investment, it becomes so challenging for us to be able to bring the level of listening and communication skills that we need. And so we need to be always aware of that. I'm going to segue to something that is maybe like not life and death, but it feels like it triggers our survival, and that is to speak with sales professionals who on a regular basis have to, you know, work to make a sale while they still feel like they're acting with integrity. I serve the financial community for the most part, so I'm working with financial advisors who have their sales sales meetings all the time, and one of the most common and most challenging objections, a difficult conversation, is one around fees. So if they bring up, well, why are your fees so high? This in itself can feel really triggering because you think, oh no, I might lose the sale. Oh no. And so the instinctive thing that we have is to start to immediately jump in, defend, justify, Do a data dump to improve, to prove the value, etc., etc. But in that moment, making that choice in fact does the opposite because that other person is, is not trusting that you care. Then they start to think you just want to make a sale.

Right.

Right. So good listening goes out the window. So I would say supporting Jen's point, which is really be clear on your intentions, be aware that you may have emotional Mm-hmm. When you're working to develop your listening skills, think about listening in layers. If you're really good at hearing the facts and hearing sales opportunities, go ahead and put that to the side. You can depend on it. You're good at that. Instead, turn your attention to master picking up on feeling cues, or give yourself the task of listening for priorities. Like, how good am I at picking up on which of the things my client mentions is most important to them? So those are a couple of things that you can do to start to improve your listening skills in a very practical way.

Yeah, so that's the self-awareness about, you know, what am I good at, at listening, and then how can I challenge myself to sort of take it to the next level of listening? Because that's kind of what listening is, multilayered. I agree. Sales are huge, and fees, huge emotion triggers. It's kind of going back to what Gary was saying too about the anxiety that starts in at the very beginning. People are already anxious around money. For me, difficult conversations is, again, it's kind of the same thing around self-awareness. It is asking yourself, why am I getting so pissed off here? Why is this bothering me so much?

Mm-hmm.

It often ties into our values, our beliefs. For me, I have a strong belief about respect, and so if someone is being disrespectful, that really triggers me. When I realize that, I go, okay, that's why I'm feeling that way. Then it's to be aware of the other person. What are their values? They might not have the same values, so that recognition of their values, and that's where I think it It starts for me. Let's go to roleplay here. And I was thinking of this the other day. We've all talked about our performing backgrounds. So it came to roleplaying, we did some things that were instinctive already, and you guys will probably talk about that. But for people who are not trained in the performing arts, a lot of things in roleplaying are uninstinctive. Instinctive. People in organizations don't like role-playing because they feel self-conscious. They feel this is just going to be punishment. They feel that people are just looking for mistakes and for failures. I realized that people don't actually have a technique on how they can do role-plays, which are so valuable for people to be able to practice and not just make it theoretical. Let's go back to you, Kira, on role-plays. We just have a few minutes here, so maybe a quick tip or quick idea on how Okay, so yeah, I'll be quick.

One of the things is if you decide that you're going to role-play at work, and I know hopefully somebody will talk about safe practice, so I'm just going to park that for the moment. But I will say that when you are going to role-play the conversation, decide, you know, if you're going to be the customer, that you're going to sort of stay in character. So there's no, you know, I'm going to be the customer. There's this moment where everybody feels a bit nervous and awkward, and maybe there's going to be some giggling or eye rolling or anything like that. Really, that's just the nervousness talking. If you want to be of service to your colleague, let them process those emotions while you just commit to being the customer. Then they'll settle down and they'll be able to practice.

Yeah, that's really good. Sometimes people forget about that. That's really Jennifer, what are your thoughts on role-playing?

Well, Kira mentioned the safe practice piece. And, yeah, I think that's important as well. So I would say, again, thinking about your intention, go back to why you're choosing to use role-play. Make sure everybody is really familiar with, okay, here's what we're trying to accomplish. And as long as that goal is serving the intention of the role play, then I think it's the entire group, then you're already starting to make progress in terms of taking the ick factor out of it, right? Because there is motivation on the other side.

Mm-hmm.

And then the other piece is just allowing people the understanding that this is about practice. It's not about judging. It's not about acting, right? It's about spotting opportunities. Opportunities and training yourself in the moment to be able to pursue those opportunities. As long as the intentionality is there and the respect for everyone is there, I think that's a good first step.

Yeah. You were talking a bit before, or we were talking before about purpose. Why are we doing this role play? It's easy to get lost in the weeds of just the exercise, but the exercise has to have a purpose. That's a really good one.

Yeah.

So let's— Gary, I think Gary's going to come on and join us on the phone. So I'll give my tip and then we'll check back with Gary. I think the key for role-playing is kind of like what you were just saying about purpose, which is when you or yourself are going to go into a role-play, set yourself up for success. So if you're using role-playing as a way to Create a practice scenario. Set yourself up for success by taking the acting out of it, by giving yourself some sort of guided learning in the sense that plan some things. Maybe the skill we're practicing, we've been talking about empathy, maybe you're going to practice empathy. Maybe you're going to, in the role play, you're going to do some things that sound like empathy but not quite. You might say stuff like, I understand. Yeah, yeah. I hear you. I hear you. So that you're setting yourself up to be able to talk about it afterwards. It kind of gives you a roadmap as to where you want to go. Let's go over to Gary. Gary, are you back with us?

I am. The technology is phenomenal here. Go ahead.

Okay, great. It sounds like all of a sudden you've gone to another country.

I sort of feel like it in my mind.

Go ahead. There's a lot of fires going on, but I can— All right, so Gary, what is your— we've just got a few minutes left, so what is your tip or idea for how we can make role-playing— take the ick out of role-playing?

I think to acknowledge between the 2 people who are going to be in the roleplay that there is an ick. Deal with it right up front and say, you know what, this feels really awkward. Yeah, it does feel awkward. So you manage that by saying, here's what I'm going to talk about. This is just a rough skeleton, and I will lead with a specific idea, so I'm not going to catch you off guard so that you're not going to be embarrassed. I'll give you a little bit of time to think about what this means to you. And then you physically turn 2 chairs back to back. Because making eye contact can be disarming at first if you're feeling uncomfortable. And just listen really clearly, going through one or two items that you've jointly decided that you're going to talk about. It's a way to segue you into a level of comfort. And then if you choose between the two participants, you can turn your chairs back toward each other because you've established the trust. The person being coached or going through the role-play knows that they have access to the content. They're not going to be flailing or grabbing on anything. It's a gentle segue into a trusting relationship and exercise within— that is part of the role-play where the benefit can come out.

As actors, we instinctively go up on stage, or as singers, we instinctively go up on stage and know that the other actor or the band And we trust them. We know that they're going to go along with them. And in the roleplay, we don't necessarily trust our work colleague. Is it going to try to throw us under the bus and throw us a curveball and start crying or something in the middle of the scene and put us in an awkward position?

Or it could be that you, with the best of intentions, say, what about the time when...

Oh yeah.

It takes the recipient time to kind of unpack the information. during which they're feeling very self-conscious, and that's where the judgment comes in, most particularly if they're doing this in front of other colleagues. So it ultimately comes down to, will I be able to do it? Not unlike the little one-word game that we played a second ago. We're all capable of doing these things, and yet, boy, I hope I don't screw up, right?

Yeah.

Because that's a natural trigger, which through rehearsal as a performer You're muscularized into doing an improv. So anyway, that would be a way to get into roleplay if you find it icky.

That's— yeah, that's, that's really good. Well, this has been a lovely holiday Coachapalooza. I want to thank, thank you all. And before we wrap up and we go to a close, let's just find out where our listeners can find out more about you or get connected or So, Kira, where can we find out more about you or connect with you?

Okay, thank you. And I'll actually use that as a segue from our role play. I would say the last tip would be it is hard for you to do that, to feel realistic about it inside of your workplace. So if you have the luxury of doing so, hire a professional because we can, we can help with that. So yes, I offer private coaching for individuals. Financial professionals, sales professionals, and the best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. It's Kira Callaghan, and I'm sure you see on the panel the spelling of my name. LinkedIn is the best way to reach me.

Okay, lovely. Then on LinkedIn, I know you've always got some great tips as well that you share from your Huffington articles.

Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. There's 50 or so articles. So there's lots that you can pick up on just by reading the feed.

Great. And then Gary, where can we connect with you or find out more about you?

Well, it's not lost on me that this is all about communication and half this interview was lost due to a connecting problem. But notwithstanding that, you know, if we can get through that technology, you can find me on LinkedIn. I also have a website which is www.garybrennan.ca. And there is, on that Actors website, a toolbar under public speaking. Or if you want, you can email me directly at betweenthewords@garybrennan.ca. That will get you to me.

Great. Okay, thank you. And then, Jennifer, where can we find out more about you or connect with you?

I am on LinkedIn, so feel free to connect with me there.

Jennifer McNaughton. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Well, thank you so much, coaches. This is, you know, I think we, we really covered a lot around, you know, I think purpose, empathy, and listening were definitely some key themes that keep coming back as we go through our communication skills and how to be more influential as we go into 2020 without being manipulative. So I just want to say, coaches, this really Thank you. Listeners, please feel free to connect. If you have any questions or thoughts or comments about today's show, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Joel Silverstone, on Twitter @SilverstoneTalk, or of course on my website at joelsilverstone.com. Or if something's not feeling right at work and you'd like us to talk about it in a future episode, then please reach out. Thank you very much, Jennifer.

Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. McNaughton, Gary Brennan, and Kira Callahan. This definitely was a really great way to go into 2020 and go into the holidays. A lot of great tips here. Listeners, we will see you next week on December 27th. We will be live again. Thank you very much, everybody. This has been Joel Silverstone on This Feels Right.

Thank you for tuning in to TFR, This Feels Right. Please join host Joel Silverstone for another edition next Friday morning at 7 AM Pacific Time and 10 AM Eastern Time on the Voice America Business Channel. We'll talk again soon.

Thank you.