How to get through the chaos and genuinely connect.- Feels Right!

Have you ever wanted to influence others to shift their behaviors, ideas, or actions without playing power trip games? If so, listen for the next hour. Welcome to TFR, This Feels Right, with your host, Joel Silverstone. You'll learn the tools and concepts to influence others with everyone involved maintaining their respect and understanding so it doesn't seem like it's all one way. Now, here is Joel Silverstone.

Hello everybody, and welcome to TFR, This Feels Right. Before we jump in, let's say hi to our first guest, Lila Smith. Lila, are you with us?

I'm here. Hi, Joel.

How are you feeling today?

You know, I feel a lot of things all the time. I've kind of always been this way, but I've been using an app called Youper, Y-O-U-P-E-R. This is not a sponsored mention. I just, I just really like it. Because it helps me to track exactly what emotion I have in one moment and then tie that back to the factors contributing to it. So I actually just logged how I'm feeling, and I'm feeling grateful, and the factors contributing to my feeling of gratitude are friends.

Lila, that is— thank you so much. That is the best answer we've ever had so far on how are you feeling.

Well, you know, I'm an overachiever, so I like to be at the head of the class. Well, I mean, you would give—

you would give definitely You have your own definition to what small talk is, right? There's no such thing as small talk, I think, with you.

No, only small talkers.

I like that. Well, welcome to TFR again. I'm your host, Joel Silverstone. Thank you.

Yeah.

Well, I'm your host, Joel Silverstone. And for over 20 years, I've been helping people in business and sometimes in life to be more influential, being able to use their communication skills. So what that means is they're able to speak to the emotions and the logic to get engagement from the other people. Our show is focused on the emotions. That's our first reaction. our gut instinct, and that's the point where we ask ourselves, does this feel right? Well, listeners, you're in the right place if you want to learn from leaders, coaches, speakers sharing their examples and their perspectives on how they are able to influence behaviors, ideas, actions, and not be manipulative. Today's show, we've got Lila Smith here, and we've also got Kim Sneath, who is the clutter coach. But first, let's start with Lila Smith. And our topic today is about really getting through that clutter and really being able to to connect with ourselves and those around us, really being able to let go, feel more confident, and make those decisions. And Lila and Kim are going to be sharing with us the steps and mindsets, techniques on how to really genuinely connect with others and to connect with ourselves. Lila Smith is the creator of Say Things Better. And what that is is a 5-step method of intentional communication. And this method comes from Lila's vast professional experience in the theater and as an actor about how to activate that intention through all ways of communicating. One of the reasons we're excited about having Lila as a guest today is the symmetry here with This Feels Right, which is how do we influence others without manipulation.

Yes.

Lila's objective with Say Things Better is achieving your objectives and how you can help your communication partners with their objectives. Lila, is this right as your bio? Is that correct?

Yeah, that's dead on. We've all had very full lives with lots of things that we can talk about, but I think that you mentioned the things that are the most relevant to your audience, which Which is step 4 and 3 of the Say Things Better method, which we'll get through.

Yeah.

But mostly it's just, look, there are so many things I could tell people about myself, but what they want to know is, what do I do? Why does it matter? Why should they trust me? And what are they about to listen to? So you're mentioning only those things now. So the clarity of the content is something you've already succeeded at. But I also hear the, you know, beyond the content, the intent in your voice. I think we share ethics and we share this view of not being manipulative because you don't have to be.

No.

You can always connect with somebody and then either get a yes or get a no or move on to the next person who might be that next yes. But either way, connecting as human beings should be priority number one.

Yeah.

So, so here's— so I'm going to ask you a little bit more about that and thank you for agreeing on our ethics. Absolutely. So what is— and everyone's got different versions of this, but what is intentional communication then?

Intentional communication to me means that you are— you're in this room, what I call a communication event. That could be an email or a phone call. So this sort of, you know, metaphoric room that you're in with somebody else.

Mm-hmm.

And when I was in theater, that was a stage, and the stage was the metaphoric room, and it was a symbol for this room in a story that was very real. 4 walls, ceiling, floor, and a set of circumstances. And here in, in our lives, we have those stages everywhere. We have these communication events, but how you choose to handle them is a matter of intention. So you know the content of what you want to say.

Mm-hmm.

Being intentional about choosing which pieces are relevant to the other person is part of what I do, but the most important part is the way that it feels. To make it feel right. It has to come from your own true values. And I heard you before when you were like, what's that gut response? What's that gut? What's your gut telling you? Does it feel right to be around this person? And that's a huge part of it too, your communication partner and qualifying whether or not you should actually care about what you make them feel.

Yeah.

Or do you just put up some nice helpful boundaries that limit their impact on you and your life? Intentional means I choose to connect and it also means I choose not to. I choose to protect myself or I choose to connect with this person. And knowing why you choose to connect with that person, starting with everything that you help your listeners to define about what feels right, is a great place to start. And then how you make those people feel, that's really the most important part of what I do. Because we can make people feel all kinds of ways when we are triggered or we're upset or we're pissed off or something. But, you know, or we are focused on like a money issue that's making us feel desperate. We're not our best, most intentional communicators in circumstances like that. So having a method, having tools To still be able to connect, still be able to communicate from a place of what your true values are. That's where I think intentional communication helps us to stay mindful of the impact we have on others.

Lotta, absolutely. Being present with that person and why you choose to connect with them. And as you just said at the last part, a lot has got to do with our own values and how that ties in with the other person. I definitely agree. And I was just watching one of your videos on LinkedIn and you're talking about, you know, one way to connect with ourselves and one way to connect with someone else. And part of this maybe around the values is listening. So let's talk about that for a second. Tell me a bit more about that.

Well, as an actress on stage, I spent thousands of performances listening to other people and it's usually not my line.

Mm-hmm.

And even if it is, even if it's my line, we aren't ever talking without trying to check in and see, is this landing? Is that other person hearing me? Are they getting what I have to say? How do they feel about this? It's constant that we are looking at the other person and trying to take in how they feel about what we're saying. Well, that's one kind of listening. Another kind of listening is the spontaneous, just being open To the fact that we could very well be wrong about what we think their response is going to be, and that we might stand to learn something in any given moment, including when we're talking, but especially when other people are. So being open to listening to even the smallest little details can give us clues into what's really important to the person that we are communicating with. You know, online now— I used to work in e-commerce, so I still use these references all the time.

Mm-hmm.

You can look at somebody's web behavior. You can see, you know, based— tied to an IP address, tied to an area, in general, what are most people doing online at around 9:00 PM? What are they doing at 11:30? Do the kind of websites that they visit vary? What does that tell you then about their behavior, and what does that tell you about their objectives in those moments? And then you can tailor your communication accordingly. But you have to first be willing to listen. What are they doing? What are they thinking? It's being curious, being open to what that looks like.

Yeah, you know what's scary about curiosity is that apparently as we get older, we become less and less curious. So that's, that's something that's quite frightening.

We heard one story about a cat that got killed one time, you know, and we get to turn off our curiosity.

It's true.

I think listening does come from— it comes from curiosity. It comes from Just being open to the magic of what can happen in a moment.

Yeah.

We were onstage doing these different plays. We could perform the same story that was scripted every day for a year and the audience would still feel like it was happening for the first time. And, that's just because it is happening for the first time every time it happens because the circumstances always change. There's never been a moment like that before. There's never been this audience before. There's never been this energy in the room. And, each actor brings to the story their own new context every time they perform it. So, something always changes from one performance to the next just because of the humans that are telling the story on the stage. So, it trained me into a lot of very active listening and being present and being patient and allowing that magic to happen.

Patience. That's a good one.

Yeah.

The acting training is really so important for people to be— where people can learn from that, I think, is what you're saying, is how to listen. But it's that ability to be— that actors have to be show after show. And if you're doing a show on Broadway, it's, you know, you're doing 12 shows a week or something like that. You're doing a lot of shows. But it's a new audience every time. So the actor has to really be focused on delivering those lines as though it's the first time they're delivering and hearing the lines from the other person as though it's the first time they're hearing it. Um, so let me ask you this now, because I think that's, that's a really good point. Uh, I want to just switch gears here for a second. We're going to go into, uh, improv your communication styles in just a second. But I love the names that you come up with, uh, you know, which is, uh, for example, the name of your company, Say Things Better, 3 words. Uh, your, your Instagram handle, Lila Loves Lasagna.

Oh my goodness.

Lila Lasagna— so Lila Lasagna is a nickname of mine that was given to me by a bunch of people at Connecticut Free Shakespeare when I was in Much Ado About Nothing in the summer of 2008. It was the lasagna summer because my apartment was kind of the default party apartment. After rehearsal, everybody would come over to my place and with 20 actors in my apartment, you make a lasagna, you know?

Right.

It feeds a lot of people. I make a good lasagna, and so people started calling me Lila Lasagna. So Lila Lasagna is my Instagram and on Twitter, which I never use. But it's funny because that nickname was given to me by other people, and so was Say Things Better. I didn't— I mean, I chose it as the name for my company, but I didn't come up with it at all. It's just so ironic because I name everybody else's things, but that's what people say that I do.

Right.

Well, there you go.

You are, you are listening, right? So you, you, you were open to what people said and you didn't dismiss it.

And look what I found. Perfect example.

That's, that's perfect. And you know, ever since you and I have been in contact, uh, I was never— lasagna was never on my radar, but now I, I'm like always like looking for the best lasagna. So—

Oh, it's at my house. You're always welcome.

Thank you so much. So let's, let's, uh, we'll continue this in a second. We're gonna take a little, uh, break here, which we like to call Improv Your Communication. And normally I lead it, but Lila, it sounds like you've got something really interesting that we could try. So what we'd like to do here is we've got like a 60-second exercise that we could do that's really going to help us in listening and being more open and a lot of things that we spoke about. So I'm curious to hear what you've got for us today.

Okay. So if this is 60 seconds, this is the perfect amount of time to completely transform your communication. This is irrevocable. You can never go back. You can never unlearn this once you learn it. So I'm going to give you a line. You are the actor. Your line is, here is a taco.

Okay.

Here is a taco. So are you off book? Have you memorized your line?

Yeah, hang on. Let me just warm up my voice.

Uh-huh. Ma ma ma mi ma ma ma.

Roll up, roll up.

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers. Okay, here we go. Here we go.

All right.

Here is a taco is your line. This is the content of the information. that you have in this communication event. Basically, there's a taco and you're saying, here it is, or here you go, or whatever. Here is a taco. That's your line. That's the content. Now the intent— and I'm just going to give you a set of verbs one at a time, and I'm assigning you your intention. Give me your line with the intention to comfort me.

Okay, great. Here's a taco.

Beautiful! And now, give me that line with the intention to intimidate.

Here is a taco.

Oh, I'm scared! And now, give me that line with the intention to energize.

Here is a taco!

Woo-hoo!

Taco time! So that's it!

Great!

You can always choose. You can always set your intentions. How do I want to make that person feel? And now, I'm going to go and do it. It's an acting trick. It's verb your values, which Which is the 5th step of my method. And you can always choose whatever the verb is that you want to use that reflects your values. How do you care to make other people feel?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This is a keeper. I love that one, Lila. I'm going to borrow that.

Yeah.

If that's okay.

Yeah, with credit, for sure.

And then I think we're now— everybody, now we have lasagna on our mind. Now we have tacos on our mind as well. So let me ask you this, as we're talking about acting, and this was, this was lovely. I know you have, you know, you had a lot of experience as an actress. So just out of curiosity, is there a part, like a play or a movie that you— a character that you always wanted to play, didn't have a chance to do, or maybe you did get a chance to do it?

Oh, that's so funny that you ask. I just was putting together sort of a dummy resume for myself.

Mm-hmm.

Because I've been now not working in like a job job. I've been working for myself. And I was like, what do I put in a resume now? And I used to have, you know, a 2-page professional resume with all my accomplishments in the corporate world. And I had a 1-page resume that I would always adapt to whatever I was auditioning for, for all of my theater stuff. And I was trying to put on this current resume, well, I'm retired from acting, but If anyone is casting for the Eva Cassidy musical, the story of her life, her music, and her leaving us far too soon, you I will talk to, and you I will send my theatrical resume to. So I was kind of putting a note in there. It didn't make it because of just space limits, but that is my dream. I love the music of Eva Cassidy. She did all these covers of of songs in a— in this just gorgeous jazz vocalist, and she died too young, and she was around my age when she did. And sometimes people have said that our voices can be similar on some songs.

Mm-hmm.

So I consider that very high praise, and I would absolutely consider coming out of retirement to play that specific role. Otherwise, I'm already in the role of a lifetime.

Well said. Well, so it sounds like you're actually semi-retired. You're, you're open to the Eva Cassidy opportunity.

Yeah. And also, you know, I can be bought. Everyone has a price.

Fair enough. Yeah. Um, and now on LinkedIn, that's another place that we can find you. And you've got, you've got your own show there going Live with Lila. So tell me, tell us a little bit more about that.

Live with Lila uses my beta access to LinkedIn's live video feature, which has not been rolled out to everybody on the platform yet, but I was one of the early video adopters. And I used it to create this network, this community, this brand for myself, and to share my own experience with others in a way that I felt was scalable. To say, I'm thinking this, now you all have to listen to it or watch it. So I have this live video feature, and what I do is focus on real life and real business examples of intentional communication. I go through with different kinds of leaders I work with entrepreneurs, people who have something important to say, and I help them to get that message out. I go through what's working, what the challenges are, and what's interesting about the communication elements of their story.

Yeah. You've got quite a following. I think you've got over 35,000 followers on LinkedIn.

Is that—

I do, yeah.

20-something thousand are connections.

Yeah.

And then I have these other people who are just following. But those people have given me so much opportunity to explore my own ideas, to do the work that I care about so much, doing communication training workshops, doing speaking engagements, that people have found me on LinkedIn and have invited me to go get paid to do what I love. And entrepreneurs who find me who want to get clear on their message so other people will know Oh, this is exactly what they do, and this is what it feels like to work with them at scale. And those people, those 35-something thousand people who are following me, they're the ones who make this possible. I bring the work, but they bring the enthusiasm. They bring the groundswell. They are the lifeblood of Say Things Better.

Well, Lada, and a lot of it's got to do with your courage and your vulnerability to not worry about perfection. And to, as you say, to almost beta test everything that you're doing, to just go out there and— I know you put a lot of work into it. It's not like you're improvising. You put a lot of work into it. But it starts, I guess, with that intention that you're going to— a belief that people can say things better, people can be better communicators and be more open and be more curious. So I have this question for you then, which is, you talked about You talk about getting clear with the message. So how, how do we know the message that we're trying to say? Or how do we know the story that we are trying to say?

Well, some people know already. This is a thing that's important to me. I want to make money from this, or this is going to in some ways serve the impact that I want to have on the world. Some people already know. But if people don't know, then they got to start with what feels right. If you just are being present to your own responses throughout a day and you want to see, is there something that I care a lot about? I'm not sure what my opinions are, or you feel that you've been silenced for so long that no one will care, you have to be the one to care first. You have to be the one to care about your own opinions and perspectives first. It's not going to come from an external validation. It comes from your own internal gauge of what feels right to you. And what feels right could also be, oh, this feels wrong. This feels so wrong that I have an opinion about it. This feels icky. This makes me feel blank. And when you start filling in those blanks and start articulating how you feel about something, then you can start asking yourself why. Why do I feel that way? Is there something in my life that has given context to my response? And is that context an opinion? Is that context expertise? Is this something I could share with other people? And so you start honing in on a feeling and breaking it down into what do you want to do about it.

Mm-hmm. I think the challenge for a lot of people is— as you're saying this, I'm thinking, geez, the challenge for a lot of people is they don't necessarily have that courage that you would have to say, you know, this is how I feel and I'm going to ask myself these questions.

Well, let me talk about courage.

Yeah.

Yeah, for a minute, because I also heard you say like, oh, you're so, you know, let's just test it and see what happens, and you're not over-optimistic, and, and that it's actually not true. I'm a crazy person, um, and like what I go through to be on video, you would like— you'd put me in the corner with a cap on my head and slap my hand with a ruler if you knew what I was doing to myself before I go on video.

Hmm.

I stack books up underneath my computer to get it at the right angle so that I won't put my face down. And, and I have to have the light hit me at a certain way so that I feel it's enough. And I have to control my environment and the audio and everything so that I feel that my message won't get lost. And I obsess about it and I go a little nuts. And so I do have to be intentional about saying it's not say things perfectly, it's say things better. And, to say things better, you have to start by saying them at all. You start with baby steps. You start with yourself. Start with understanding what's important to you. You can be mission-motivated and that will get you over craziness like I have. I've got this anxiety about being on video and I'm on video all the time.

Mm-hmm.

People have stage fright who still go on stage. We can have these awful feelings of dread and self-doubt and still intentionally move forward when the motivation is really there, when your mission is moving you.

Yeah.

So understand what that is first. It will get you through those moments of fear. I have them just like anybody else and sometimes even worse. And it's one of the reasons why I never did film because I get so nuts about video. I'm on a lot more video now. Now that I have my own story to tell, and it's not fiction, it's not something a playwright wrote, I care more about what I have to say now than I've ever cared about anything before. And that gets me through the fear, the anxiety about being on video, being vulnerable, more than anything else, because it just means that much to me. It's not that the fear goes away.

Yeah.

It's that I have something to carry me through it that's more powerful.

And I think this is a good segue as we go towards our close here, Laila, is that again, going back to what we said at the beginning, it's that intention is— it's not about you. It's what it is that you want to say. Why is this important? Why should anybody care? And when you're not so focused on yourself, and even though you go through this whole anxiety process, and thank you for sharing that.

Yeah.

Because it's true. Because we all— nobody ever wakes up and goes, Man, oh man, I'm feeling so confident today. I can't wait to put myself on video and tell the world. So Lila, where can we learn more about you and Say Things Better?

Well, follow me on LinkedIn for sure. Or if you're listening to this, connect, send a connection request. You might have to hit the 3 dots near my name somewhere on my LinkedIn profile to see the word connect, but please connect. If you are an audience member of this If this feels right, you're already the kind of person that I want to be connected to. I don't just want you following. I do have lots of open connections. Please do hit that connect button on LinkedIn. Find Lila Smith. You can follow Say Things Better. You can follow Lila Lasagna on Instagram. You can go to saythingsbetter.com.

Thank you so much. I want to thank you, Lila, for this. This was really wonderful. As you said, Also, I'd like our listeners to know too, I'd love to also connect with you. I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on today's episode or on any guests that we've had and you want to learn more about. Also, we'd love to learn more about, is there something at work that doesn't feel right or conversations that for you doesn't feel right? So connect with us on LinkedIn @JoelSilverstone or Twitter @SilverstoneTalk or come on over to the website joelsilverstone.com and let us know your thoughts about the topics or guests or something you'd like to learn more about or something doesn't quite Quite feel right. We'll take a break. I want to thank again Lila for— Lila Smith for joining us at Say Things Better. We'll take a little break and we'll be back with our clutter coach, Kim Sneath. Become our friend on Facebook. Post your thoughts about our shows and network on our timeline. Visit facebook.com/voiceamerica.

The pace of change in the world is increasing exponentially and shows no signs of slowing down. Leadership is evolving and requires more and more innovative leaders to keep up. Innovating Leadership: Co-Creating Our Future with Maureen Metcalf features interviews with global business leaders, thought leaders, and academics in a wide range of industries. Proven concepts and tools may be applied to build your organization and deliver sustainable success. Tune in every Tuesday at 2 PM Eastern Time, 11 AM Pacific, on Voice America Business.

Leadership is a vital skill set in today's competitive global economy. Being a leader is not enough to succeed. You must optimize your performance and know how to imbue others in your organization with leadership skills. Practical, actionable leadership insights are the focus of Leadership Development News, hosted each Monday at 9 AM Pacific, noon Eastern, by Kathy Greenberg.

Join Drs.

Greenberg and Relli Nadler on the Voice America Business Channel.

Drs.

Greenberg and Nadler, who coach global leaders on how to be most effective, will share their insights and contacts. The path to leadership excellence begins here.

The Voice America Live Events Channel is here now to showcase your corporate, individual, or organization's live event. Visit voiceamerica.com/liveevents to see all of our past live events and find out more. Whether it's a multi-day conference, special speaker, or single-day event, we've got everything to make your event a success. We can do a few hours or a few days. For more information about taking your event to the next level, call Jeff Spenard at 480-294-6417 or email info@voiceamerica.com. Again, that's Jeff Spenard at 480-294-6417 or send us an email to info@voiceamerica.com. Voice America is where you are and where you want to be. Join us around the globe as we broadcast live from some of the most interesting events available. Don't forget to view all our live events, including on-demand access to past events that you may have missed, by visiting voiceamerica.com/liveevents.

Have you friended us on Facebook yet? Why not? Just go to facebook.com/voiceamerica or search for the keywords Voice America. Once you are part of our Facebook Facebook network, you'll receive daily messages about what's happening with our shows, this week's featured guests, and new happenings at the Voice America Talk Radio Network. And you can add your voice to the always active discussions on our timeline. Just go to facebook.com/voiceamerica or search for Voice America.

You are listening to TFR. This feels If you have a question or comment for Joel Silverstone, please send an email to joelsilverstone.com. Again, that's joelsilverstone.com. Now back to TFR.

Welcome back to part 2, TFR: This Feels Right. Before we jump in, we've got Kim Sneed, the clutter coach, here. And let's just check in with Kim. Kim, how are you feeling today?

I'm feeling excited to speak to you today.

We're excited too. This is great. So listeners, you're in the right place if you want to learn from leaders and coaches and speakers who will be sharing their examples and perspectives on how they're able to influence behaviors, ideas, and actions and not be manipulative to the point where the other person asks themselves, does this feel right? Today's episode is about getting through the clutter and really connecting with ourselves and those around us to let go and feel more confident in making those decisions. And we've already heard from Lida Smith sharing her steps and mindsets and techniques around that. And now we've got Kim Sneath, who will be also sharing her steps, mindsets, and techniques. Kim Sneath is the clutter coach. What that, what that means is that she is a professional organizer and she's able to liberate you from your clutter. And I love this, Kim, is to be able to transform your space And therefore you are transforming your life. So I love that. It's about getting unstuck. It's about getting back to feeling your best. And Kim offers a residential. She's based in Canada on the East Coast, but she also has this online program, Space for Grace, and we'll talk about that. That's a 5-step method. And we'll also talk a little bit more about— Kim and I have known each other for many years, and we've had an opportunity to travel to Europe and the US and Canada.

Mm-hmm.

delivering communication skills workshops and sessions, especially around difficult conversations. So we'll talk a little bit more about that. But Kim, welcome to TFR again.

Thank you. I feel so welcome. That's a beautiful intro.

Well, that's what I want to check. Did I get that right?

You did. You're spot on, Joel.

All right, excellent. Thank you, Kim. So let's talk about clutter because, you know, we, as we were leading up to the show, so many people were responding online about, oh, I can't wait to hear about this. This is, this is kind of like I think everybody wants some ideas because I think it starts with this idea of— and we all feel overwhelmed about where do we start? So that's my first question to you, Kim. Where does one start if they want to get decluttered?

That's a great question. So if you have clutter and if it's been around for a while, the first step is really deciding why. Why do I really want to get organized? Because without the why, you're not going to get through. It's just like dieting or exercising.

Yeah, so what are some examples of why? Because maybe I don't have much imagination and I can't even figure out my why besides the basic, well, I just want to make sure that the kids' toys have a place to go.

Yeah, and that's because you're a pretty organized person and it's hard for people who are organized to imagine it. When you aren't, the why— You kind of forget the why, but it's there beneath the clutter. So if you think of the areas in your home, I find that the clutter— it's really interesting when I go into people's homes or I speak with them over the phone— where their clutter is located is often an indication of where they really want to transform their life. So I can give you an example if you like.

Yeah, please.

So say if there's that back room, and they often call it the junk room, or that's the place where all the stuff goes and we don't open the door, sometimes it's a thought for for a homeowner to want to start that home business or really want to get scrapbooking as a hobby, or maybe they want to have a baby and they've been struggling getting pregnant, and that will be the baby's room.

Mm-hmm.

And it's just funny how the clutter ends up in that room and it's blocking what you really want. So that's why I ask, what is the why? The same thing can go for your kitchen. Often people who want to get in shape or lose a bit of weight, their kitchens are often quite cluttered.

Yeah, yeah. And that's, and that's interesting because it's, it's kind of— so is that a, a mental or emotional thing? Like, I, I, I know this is some— this is a part of my other objective. I want to, I said, lose weight, or I want to cook more, but I, I subconsciously make it difficult for that to happen by, by—

Exactly. We subconsciously— because there's lots of places that you could put your stuff, right, in your home. Garages, basements, all over. But we subconsciously choose where it goes. It's really not— it's really funny when you look at it and when you bring that to light. When I bring that to light with clients, it's often a surprise to them, actually.

I like one of the quotes that are— that you've shared, which is a lot of your clients say, I can now step into my space and breathe.

Oh, yeah.

So tell me a bit more about that because that's— you know, it's interesting because that's— I guess they didn't see it or they didn't think it was possible. I mean, what does that mean?

That's all of it. They don't see it. I often say to people, I see space where others see none. And at the end of a 3-hour session— I mean, I just had one with a couple. They're retired. They're artists, so they're painting at home. So they have a lot of stuff with that. And I went in and by the end of 3 hours, It's like they're seeing it. They're like, I never thought of putting that there, or I never thought that closet could hold stuff in this way. So they— what was— ask your question again because there was another part that I wanted to—

Yeah, well, so people say I could step into my space and breathe. So what does that mean? So like, so you could see it, they can't see it, but it's like that. It's almost like They couldn't even imagine it, I guess.

That's right. They can't imagine it. I often say it's like an editor for a book or a director of a play. You need that outside eye, and I'm that outside eye that comes in. That's why I get— people talk about my energy, but I get so excited by people's spaces because there is so much possibility. Here's the other half of it, is what's really exciting to me and the other layer to it is there's so much possibility within in the person I'm coaching. And that's why I call it— like, my tagline is, transform your space and your life.

Yeah.

Because I just— the bigger transformation for me— a lot of people want to see those before and after pictures and the beautiful living rooms and so on, but for me, I wish I could take a picture of the person's face before and after and, yeah, they can breathe. And I wanted to address that word breathe. People are often very nervous to have me in. They, even though we speak over the phone first and I assure them I've seen it all and I'm not going to judge and I'm there only to help, they're kind of spinning when I first arrive. And sometimes if I'm sensing that in them, I say, let's just take a moment and breathe and let's talk again about what you said on the phone because you said you wanted to do We're going to get you there. I sort of bring them back down to earth because the clutter causes mind clutter, which causes emotional, and that's what we're here to talk about today too, Joel, is the emotions, right?

Yeah. Well, this is it. What I'm hearing is I'm hearing it's not just about going to IKEA and getting some shelves and organizing things in some boxes. It's a mind clutter. It changes your perspective on yourself. I think I like that example you gave, which is it's not pictures of before and after because that's just organizing. It's a mindset about how to get that person from A to Z, in a sense. Not even A to B, but A to Z.

That's right. You asked me how do they start, and it's starting with A and then B, gentle steps. Then it snowballs. People, it's like they catch the fever. They really— I start to see session after session, if they do multiple sessions, this acceleration of energy that comes with releasing their clutter, seeing their space for what it is. And also, there's a huge freedom that happens internally with them, and I don't think they even realize it until they start. And then they get excited, and they start to realize, oh my God, I can do it. I've had this stuff for 12 years. And they feel free.

Yeah, and again, it is a series of gentle steps. And I think that's— often we just sort of look at it and go, whatever it is we do in life, whether it be clutter, physical or just the clutter in life, and just go, oh, there's no way I'm going to get to Z. And we're going, oh, it's a series of small steps to get there.

Excellent.

I also like what you say about that you don't judge. So I think that's That's a— you know, when I asked you where do we start, I think that's where it starts, is that this is a judgment-free zone when you begin with someone.

Yeah.

And you know, you and I often, in the work that we did together, coached to empathy. It was one of the first skills that we coached to. So I have a lot of empathy for these people because they're already judging themselves pretty harshly. In particular, women judge themselves much more than men. That's why 90 to 95% 95% of my clients are women is because, you know, despite where we're at in our careers and how far we've come, there's still an inherent belief that, oh, I'm a failure if I can't make my home work and be efficient. I'm not a good mother. I'm— they really— and they've studied this. There's actually studies where— I think there's a study out of UCLA where they studied the cortisol levels, and it actually correlates directly to the amount of stuff in a woman's home, but not in a man's. Men view it very differently, like, hey, look at all the great stuff I have. And when they're done with it, they're like, well, let's just haul it out in one go.

Right.

Yeah, and they're not— it's not this emotional connection. And that's why couples, when I do work together with them, is helping them understand that, hey, you guys are actually on the same team. You're on team, let's get this house working efficiently. Let's love where we live again.

Mm-hmm.

But you're coming at it from different approaches. And it's very— and this isn't always the man and the woman feeling this way. Sometimes it is. But I try to make them understand that you're just coming at it with different approaches. So it's frustrating for the man to To have to think, wow, she has to go through every item. That's going to take a long time. And it's really upsetting for the woman to think he's not understanding I need time. So I help them come together on that.

So it's a little bit of marriage counseling as well.

Yeah, I often say that it's— I'm not a therapist or a marriage counselor, but it is therapeutic and you probably will be getting along better after.

Well, as you brought up that you and I have worked, again, in Europe and the US and Canada around those difficult conversations, and it starts with empathy. If you recall, Kim, one of the other key pieces in what you're saying here is the end goal for all those courses was always about 2 things. One was to get to dialogue, and the way we're going to get to dialogue, the sort of secret ingredient besides empathy, was find the mutual purpose.

That's right, the common ground. They have to feel safe.

They have to feel safe. And I think this mutual purpose is, you know, 2 people are trying to declutter a house. If one has an emotional connection to it and the other one is, you know, let's just get it done, is what I'm hearing. So how do we remind us that it's like we are working towards a mutual purpose? We just might have some different ways to get there, but we will get there.

Yep, absolutely. And, you know, I used to always, when people call me on the phone, they say, Should my husband be there or should I just do it on my own? And I always say the person who has the attachment to the clutter, that's who I usually work with. It's absolutely fine if you're— let's say, let's just for simplicity's sake say your husband is there, but I'm going to put him to work.

Right.

So if he's willing and open, then that's great. And then what I do with couples is I separate them. I put them in different areas, different projects. And then once they see that each other is accomplishing the same goal, you should see the tension release. It's amazing.

Well, this is, this is a great example of what we talked about, of influencing without authority, which is know your audience, know what's important to them. So you've, you've got years of experience of understanding that, you know, if you're dealing with 2 people with clutter, one person is probably gonna have an emotional attachment and one person is going to be more task-oriented. So that's how you're going to communicate. You're not going to say, You're not going to come in like the military drill sergeant, blow your whistle and say, this is what's going to happen. You do this, you do that. You're modeling that patience at the beginning to be able to influence them.

Yeah, that's it, Joel. Thanks for saying that. It took a while for me to learn that because when I started my business back in 2007, I started it actually in home staging because I love interior design. For me, there wasn't enough of a connection, a human connection. Oftentimes, I didn't even meet the homeowners. I just worked directly with real estate agents. That was a lot of fun. But when I started to transition into professional organizing, I joined the Professional Organizers in Canada. There's an association for that.

Okay.

In the States, it's NAPO, National Organization of Professional Organizers. So hey, if you're out there listening and you are looking for a professional organizer in your area, Those are two places to start. But what I did is I mentored with organizers who had been doing this for a number of years because while I grew up organized and I just inherently have those skills, I've got to do what I'm now doing. I've got to communicate that. I've got to show them what's in my head, the vision that I have. So that took a little while for me to And fair enough.

And you're coming from a communication skills background and coaching and a theatrical background as well. So I think where we're hearing the theme is that it's a learning curve and sometimes you only learn if you put yourself in there and you're open to hearing what people are saying to you and what you observe as well. For sure.

For sure. We learn so much from our clients every time.

What I'd like to do is I want to take a little, uh, what we call improv, improve your communication style break. Uh, and then afterwards I want to come back and talk about your, your online, um, you know, if we can't get you to come to our house, talk about this online Space for Grace 5-step method and, and your Facebook clutter group as well. But let's, let's take a little what we call improv your communication style Which is, Kim, if you're— let me check with safety here. Very safe environment here. Are you, are you up for doing this?

I'm ready.

Okay, great. We're gonna do something we like to call Yes, But. So what it is, is, Kim, we're gonna pretend that we are a couple based on your— based on what you were just speaking about. We're a couple and you would like to do some renovations around the house. I'm gonna— oh, just so you know, I'm always gonna start off the answer with yes, but.

Okay.

All right, and then we'll do it for just a few seconds and then we'll, we'll switch. I'll give you— we'll try it again with a different technique. So here we go.

Do I start?

Yeah, you start us off with some ideas around— get me on board to renovate the house.

Okay, honey, I've got these awesome, um, decor magazines and also some paint chips. So this weekend I want to talk about changing the living room color.

Yes, but, uh, that just sounds like an enormous amount of work going through paint colors. Can't we just do it white?

Yeah, I actually agree with that. Uh, white is the blank canvas, and then we can use color with our cushions and all that kind of thing, and artwork.

Uh, yes, but I didn't realize it was going to involve looking at all kinds of different colors as well.

Well, if you like, I can pick.

Yes, but then I have to live with it.

How about I pick a top three?

Yes, but maybe it's more than three.

I don't know.

All right, so let's pause right here. Let's switch gears here. Don't change anything. Let's go back in time. Do do do do do back in time. And now I'm gonna just so you know, Kim, I'm gonna answer everything with yes and.

Okay.

All right, try it again. Take two.

All right, so this weekend I think we should look at changing up the living room and doing some new decor.

Yes, and finally, I'm glad, I'm glad you brought that up. I am so on board. Let's, let's hit some colors.

Oh, I'm so excited! Look, I've got my color deck. I was thinking of white. What do you think about that?

Yes, and white is so good because that's a great place to start, and then we can, you know, add, add to that, right, the, with the different colors.

Love, Yeah, because I know you really like sports themes. So I want to try to incorporate that. Said no woman ever.

Yes.

Yes, and perfect. We'll pause right there. All right, Kip, how did you feel with the yes, but?

Oh, it's really hard. Like, yeah, it's like pushing a boulder up a hill and trying to stay positive.

It's so true. It makes the other person work so hard.

How did you feel when you were being yes, Excited and just like we're, we're on the same team and we're building towards something. Yeah, it was a lot more fun.

Absolutely. And that's the whole idea behind that improv exercise is that we say yes, but all the other person hears is the but, and that you're making the other person work really hard. And Kim, as you know, when you say yes, and maybe, maybe you're not completely agreeing to the idea, but the idea of yes, and is you're at least open to collaborative. That speeds up the process a lot more.

It ties right into empathy.

It ties into being empathetic, absolutely, because you don't necessarily have to share the ideas or share the feelings, but you can see that this is important to the other person, and so you're at least being open.

Yeah.

Let's segue from that into space for grace. Tell us a bit about Space for Grace, Kim.

All right, so I created this program which, as I call it, the 5-step pathway to clear your clutter for good, because there's 5 letters in the word of grace, and grace is the acronym for the, the 5 steps.

Okay.

Yeah, um, and I'll tell you a little bit about the program, but I think I'll tell you the steps first. So G is going within, and that ties into pretty much the first question you asked me is, is what do you start with? And I talked about the why. So in that whole first week of the program, we do exercises that we don't touch your house, your clutter, nothing like that. It's all about the internal journey. Why do you even want to get organized? And so on. So going within. The second is R, release.

Release.

And release without fear because— and that's purging and letting go and decluttering. But release without fear. So many people have so many fears over letting go of stuff. What if I need it? Well, just in case.

Right.

Then A is align. So let's remember what you said in week 1, going within. Let's align with that vision again. And also aligning in actual physical organizing is putting like with like and sorting things out, containing them. And then C is cultivate new habits because what got you disorganized in the first place are the habits that got you there. Let's be aware of those, and then let's talk about starting up a new habit, like I'm always going to hang my keys when I come in the front door rather than— I don't know, just things like that.

Right.

They can be little or they can be big, like I'm going to set boundaries, boundaries with my children or my husband or something, so that I have a little more time and therefore more space. And then E, the last week, is really about embodying everything you learned in the program and feeling empowered. And these 5 steps happen over 6 weeks because I give 2 weeks for release, 2 weeks for going through all your clutter.

This is lovely because this is so organized and such a method, but hard to do by yourself. To have Kim Sneath, the Clutter Coach, guide you through this process and validate so many things that are going to happen along the way to make you feel, as you said, Uh, uh, to be able to embody this, 'cause it is, it's about, it's not just about decluttering. It's about changing behaviors and changing your mindset.

That's right. And if there's time, I'd like to just say what the course encompasses.

Well, let's, I'll give you a minute and then we'd love to learn more about where we can find out more about you. So maybe put that all in.

Yep. So it is a Facebook group that's private. So you have me right there. I do a once a week group coaching call with that. So I support you through each step of the, of the program. You have videos and audio. Audios. So you're watching me teach you how to declutter. It's like I'm right there in your house. And then you have exercises with the program.

And so, Kim, where— so where can we sign up for this or find out more about, about you and the Clutter Group and the Space for Grace? So where do we find out more information about all this?

So 2 ways I'd say are the easiest to find me is my website. You can contact me through there as well. So that's just simply www.kimberly kimsneath.com, and then my Clutter Busters group on Facebook. You can ask to join that. So that's Clutter Busters, and it's a Facebook group, and we'd love to have you. There's over 600 women from all over the world in that group.

That's good. Congratulations. So that's great. So kimsneath.com to find out more, and then the Clutter Busters group on Facebook. So thank you so much, Kim. And listeners, thank you so much for listening to today's show. About really getting through that clutter and connecting. I encourage you to connect with us on LinkedIn @JoelSilverstone or on Twitter @SilverstoneTalk or on our website, www.joelsilverstone.com. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the topics or guests that you'd like to learn more about or you'd like to see coming up on the show. Also, if there's something you want to share that doesn't feel right and you'd like us to talk about this. Thank you very much. This was a wonderful show and we really, again, got a lot of insights, a lot of information. I'm your host, Joel Silverstone, on TFR: This Feels Right. We will talk to you again next week. Thank you and have a good week.

Thank you for tuning in to TFR: This Feels Right. Please join host Joel Silverstone next week. Joel Silverstone for another edition next Friday morning at 7 AM Pacific Time and 10 AM Eastern Time on the Voice America Business Channel. We'll talk again soon.