Keys to the Customer Experience Listening for accuracy, not assumptions-This Feels Right!

Have you ever wanted to influence others to shift their behaviors, ideas, or actions without playing power trip games? If so, listen for the next hour. Welcome to TFR, This Feels Right, with your host, Joel Silverstone. You'll learn the tools and concepts to influence others with everyone involved maintaining their respect and understanding so it doesn't seem like it's all one way. Now, here is Joel Silverstone.

Welcome to TFR, This Feels Right. Before we jump in, let's say hi to our first guest, Shannon Ranella. So Shannon, how are you feeling today?

I am doing great, Joel. How are you today?

I'm doing good as well. Thank you. Well, welcome to TFR. I'm your host, Joel Silverstone. And for over 20 years, I have been helping people in business and sometimes in life to be more influential by using their communication skills. And what that means is they're able to speak to the emotions and And the logic to get others engaged. Our focus is going to be on those emotional moments. That's our first reaction. That's our gut instinct. It's that point where we ask ourselves, does this feel right? Well, listeners, you are in the right place if you want to learn from leaders and coaches and speakers who are going to be sharing their examples and perspectives on how they have been able to influence and shift behaviors, ideas, and actions and not be manipulative. Today's show is really a lot of fun. It's going to be really very interesting. I'm looking forward to this. going to be the keys to delivering an exceptional customer experience. I'm going to introduce Shannon Ranella in a bit and she'll be sharing her passion, her vast experience and insights on how we can deliver and exceed on those customer experiences. She'll also be helping me out a little bit later with a listening activity and I'll be sharing some tips and suggestions and techniques on why listening for accuracy and not your assumptions is so important and is going to make your guests say— This feels right. So like I said, we've got Shannon Ranalla with us, and Shannon is the Senior Director of Global Learning and Development at Marriott International. She's also an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Master's in Global Hospitality and a contributor to hotelexecutive.com, Lodging and Hospitality Magazine. Shannon is also a speaker and speaks about the keys to the 5-star customer experience. Shannon, before I go any further, I just also want I want to say that the views that you are sharing during this podcast are your own and do not necessarily reflect those of Marriott International. Is that correct?

That is correct. And over 15 years prior to joining Marriott too.

So yeah. Great. All right. Well, thank you so much. So is this correct? Is this bio— is that right? Did I have that right about you, where you're at?

Yeah, that's exactly right. It's been a few years since I shared my thoughts on hotelexecutive.com, but I certainly have shared in the past all about the experiences that that I've witnessed at hotels around the world, really, of what really elevates that service experience for guests both internally and externally.

Yes, because your experience started after college. You basically started at sort of what we call the big kahuna of hospitality with Walt Disney.

That is correct, yes. My career all started with the mouse, I like to say. Yes, I sat at the front desk at Disney, actually Disney's Wilderness Lodge in The Walt Disney Resort in Orlando, Florida, and then kind of moved into management pretty quickly thereafter, which there's no better training ground for dealing with the public and dealing with all sorts of different issues that may or may not be really under your control than working a front desk. I think everyone— if everyone in the world worked a service-related job, be it front desk or restaurant or retail, for just 6 months of their life, I think the world would be a much happier, nicer place.

Yeah, front desk, you would get all walks of life coming in at all hours of the day, and everybody would have a story coming in, right? They've had a horrible flight, this is their first vacation, this is their honeymoon, they're on a business trip. Everybody's already coming in with a story as soon as you meet them.

Absolutely, yeah.

So also what's interesting is your background is, You know, to be able to talk about hospitality, I mean, we're all customers, but you did it. You are a professional customer. You basically did mystery shopping.

That's exactly right. Yeah, kind of like a little hotel spy for about 7 years of my career. I worked shortly after moving away from Disney full-time. I worked at a company that really focused on customer experience and not just in hotels, but also airports and stadiums and all sorts of interesting stuff. And just seeing how the customer experience changes by each of those locations was really eye-opening because the fundamentals of a great experience are pretty static. It's just in how you actually deliver on those and maybe your unique brand in its own way really can kind of just make that slight difference from good to great experiences.

And I think that's where we want to go, whether we're working in a hospitality industry or just we want to be able to connect with other people. It's thinking about there's good and then there's a great experience that we want to— basically, it's how you want to make that person feel. And so this is what I love about the fact that you were a professional customer and you were this mystery shopper, which really heightened your awareness for what that good to great is. So what can you— do you have an example or thinking back of— or that you'd like to share as an anecdote or as a story of what was a good to great moment?

Absolutely. I was actually, as any road warrior out there listening has experienced, I had the dreaded horrible sickness while I was traveling. And so I was getting ready for a meeting and just felt absolutely miserable, coughing up a storm, et cetera. I was in Chicago in the winter, so it was just the perfect storm of garbage at one time. And I called down for room service at a very nice hotel, and I started coughing like during my ordering process. And what I loved about that experience, although I felt miserable, is that the woman on the other line was like, you know, Mm-hmm. You don't sound really good. Are you okay? I'm like, actually, I'm fine. Just kind of really battling a really nasty cold right now. She's like, well, tell you what. Let me send you up some tea. That always makes me feel better when I'm under the weather. I'm like, okay. And I'm not a tea drinker at all, Joel, at that point in my life. Right. I'm like, sure. It was just someone taking care of me and listening to how— not what I was saying, but just around what I was saying, and was able to deliver that next step for me. And sure enough, with my food came up a little pack of tea, some honey, etc., and it completely and totally made my day. Even though I felt miserable, I felt so well taken care of and listened to that I'd go back to that hotel in a heartbeat.

That's an example of anticipating customers' needs, which is having the courage to just be present and say, can I do this for you? That, I think, is a great example of going from good to great. As you know, Shannon, I shared with you also that while I was going through university, I did— and also as a struggling actor— I worked for many years at different hotels. For me, one of the greatest lessons I had was when I was being trained, was the other room service waiter. We were walking through the hallways and we were passing by a customer coming out of the hotel room. This is the time when people didn't have luggage with wheels. Oh, I remember that moment.

I'm sure you do, yes.

It was great because the other room service waiter said to me, go ahead and ask her if you can help her with her luggage, something I would never have even I was just, you know, I've got to go deliver my food. I'm going through. And it's like stopping and taking a beat, and she was so appreciative of that moment. So for me, that really is hospitality. It's not what you do, which is I had to do my job, but it's how you make that person feel. And going back to your example about what that person did for you when you were having that cold.

Absolutely. And I think sometimes people get— they assume that because to make something a really great experience, it has this grandiose gesture, right, with sometimes throwing money at it, making like, you know, the impossible happen. And that's amazing when those things happen. I would never discount that because those types of things you talk about for years to come.

Yeah.

But this particular instance I just shared with you from T, that happened in probably 2007. So I'm also talking about that years to come.

Yeah.

And it didn't take anything other than just listening to what I was saying and listening to what I wasn't saying and then responding to that. So it doesn't take a lot to do that.

Yeah, it's having that heightened awareness of those moments because you can stay at a hotel, for example, and you can see the chocolate on the pillow and go, oh, that's nice, or there's a little card there written by the housekeeping service saying, my pleasure to serve you. But it's when someone actually does the out of the ordinary, that anticipation moment.

That's right.

So now I'd like to talk about— yeah, I'd like to talk a bit about You have these 3 ideas about hospitality, and I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's around people, place, and the process to influence the experience. Is that correct?

Pretty close, yeah. It's kind of that sense of place and style of the product and then service of the people behind it who are executing on that experience for you. You were really close. Okay.

So can you walk us through that a little bit?

Sure. So with the sense of place, the way I look at this, no matter what the experience is, how you actually bring that to life. So here's a great example. Let's say you're having a meeting, because everyone in the business world has meetings one way or the other, and they're usually not that much fun, let's be honest. So how do you make a meeting that's otherwise very boring or very difficult slightly better for those who are in the group? Some basic ways, add music. It's such a small little differentiator, but if you put the right music behind a startup, I mean, you have a buffer coming into your podcast, it gets people hyped up, right? It's a nice high-energy music. You bring that in, or you bring in, if it's a roundtable, a certain time of the year, bring themed music behind it. It just makes things slightly different and gets people in a different mindset. And I think it's one of the things that the great hotels out there, be it Disney or Marriott or any other brand out there, they bring a sense of true place to where they are through a sensory experience, be it sight, sound, taste, touch, or smell. And that's, I think, one very simple way you can make a change in your Overall experience. Style, of course, is what you do in terms of how you deliver things. Coming back to those little thoughtful gestures. When you're walking through a hallway en route to this meeting, if we keep that analogy going, and there's a piece of paper on the floor, do you pick it up or do you walk by? What does it say about you and what you bring to the table in terms of your attention to detail on things? Those little things people notice whether you do them or not. And then finally, your ultimate service, which is all It's also part of your personal brand. Are you coming to every engagement whether you really feel like being there 100%? Are you still giving your 100% regardless and being polite and being personable and tailoring your message depending on the audience that you're working with? So that's kind of at the highest level what I kind of dive into in those spaces.

I'm with you all the way. You know, music I think is so important. I always try to have that when I'm doing a session because it does. It triggers something in people's brains. As you said, that sensory experience already says this is going to be different or just helps calm people's nerves. It's also very much— and I want to talk about this too— I think hospitality is that beginning experience, that first impression.

Mm-hmm.

What are your thoughts on those first impressions? Because that's always difficult. I don't know if people really think about that in a hospitality mindset or a customer experience, if that Yeah, the first impressions.

Again, the old adage, you never get a second chance to make a first impression, and I completely believe that. How you do it really depends on you because you want to strike that balance of doing something that feels right to you, but doesn't come off inauthentic in any capacity. Because if you're just all of a sudden talking to one person in a very— let's just say you're rude, and I see this happen a lot at hotels, particularly when if I was a mystery shopper and they may have known that I was coming. They may treat the person in front of me just in a not-so-great way and then turn on the charm with me.

Right.

You notice those things, right? So coming into interaction with a sense of enthusiasm, eye contact, smile, just the basics of being a good person, honestly, in those first few moments, and making that direct eye contact where it's globally and culturally appropriate. In some regions that isn't appropriate, and knowing those things and dialing back appropriately to, again, tailoring your message to your audience. is really key, because in some areas that eye contact may not be appropriate for whoever you might be speaking with, or a handshake might be not the appropriate gesture for someone.

Yeah, it's true. You do have to adjust to the cultures, and eye contact is so important, even if it's a quick glance, especially in this day and age where people are so distracted. And you were talking about that front desk, right? How many times you go up to the front desk and the person doesn't even look up and you're standing there. And you're wondering what's going on here. I'm invisible.

That's exactly right. And just, it's funny, I saw that recently with a front desk attendant on a phone. And granted, you want to take care of the guests in front of you. You're from hospitality, so you know that background. You take care of the guests with you, but you have to be aware of the guests around you as well. And so is it simply just some eye contact and I'll be with you in a moment, or thank you for your patience, something just to kind of put a bow on the experience? Those little differences matter to your guests, both those who are on the front and those who are in front of you, that they're being well taken care of and listened to.

Yeah, I've got a little statistic here that I just saw recently, and I'd love your thoughts on this, Shannon.

Sure.

They called it the customer service myth. And so the stat shows that 80% of the companies that they polled say they believe they deliver a superior customer service. And then they asked their customers what they thought. So what percentage do you think of the customers thought that those same companies were delivering that superior customer service?

Ooh, you're putting me on the spot right now.

It's just a guess. I know.

I'm going to ballpark this. Less than half.

Yeah, well, and again, this is one research because this does seem quite low. 8%.

8%? Wow.

8% of those customers said that they believe that those same companies do deliver that superior customer service. So where's the disconnect?

Wow. Oh, that's a great question. I think what the disconnect is a level of self-awareness, right? We think that because we are— we're saying thank you, or we're sending out an automated email to confirm an order, for example, outside the hotel space, that that checks the box, it's done, right? We've had a transaction, and it's truly that, it's a transaction.

Yeah.

What makes the difference, and when people do go— that small 8% of those companies that are getting it right from the research that you're looking at, They take those moments of transactions, those touchpoints, what we call a lot in the customer experience area, those moments of truth.

Right.

And they make that an interaction. They make that a moment to really engage with their customer, either through tailoring the message in a way that's on brand to them or adding a little something else to it. I know my mother spoke of a delivery company she had when she ordered something on furniture. They brought the furniture. And they gave her a rose at the end of the experience. How great is that? Like little touches like that, that puts you in that superior category, or the handwritten note versus the automated email. Those little touches are what makes the difference on it. And so I think that 8% is where the companies are doing it right, and they know what their guests and what their clients are looking for, and make that superior service that way.

Do you think as customers we also have a much higher level of expectation now because we're so used to being able to look up things ourselves? We just go, hey Siri, hey Alexa. We're so used to being more in control that when we are waiting for service, our expectation levels are higher now?

Oh, absolutely. It's something I tell my students a lot in the classes I teach at Georgetown. We talk about guest service and the changing nature of travelers, but I think it's not just travel, it's everybody in general, especially with the rise and proliferation of social media and influencers, right? relationships with brands or with people, and it's instant gratification. So if we can't deliver on that, let's think about room service, for example, some TV, USB, and room service, right?

Yeah.

That's an area that's really changing the hotel space right now because people don't want to have to call somebody and place an order when they can do it on their mobile phone or do it on DoorDash or whatever the brand might be. And if you aren't giving them those Yeah. Those updates they can check on their phone to know when their food's coming, you know, watch the car, if you will, even on some of the applications, there's a sense that they're not being well taken care of. Now, whether that's good or bad is up for debate, but it's definitely something that every brand out there, I think, has to be cognizant of, no matter if you are a, you know, Fortune 100 or a small mom-and-pop, being aware of what those guests are expecting of you at this point and trying your best Well, I really like what you said, Shannon, about the disconnect.

And this goes back to what you're saying now, is that the boxes are checked. Was the food delivered on time? Check. Was the food hot? Check. Did the attendant hand you the— and ask for a signature? Did they say good morning? But it's a bit of that intangible of really, again, going back to the human touch. To the title of the show, how did you make that person feel in that moment? Were you being genuine? Were you being authentic? Did you offer maybe to open the curtains because it was a beautiful day, or did you make a comment, or some sort of personalization? Because I think that's what's going to separate us from the robots when the robots take all these jobs.

That's exactly right. As we become a more automated society at every level, It's those personal interactions that really elevate those experiences and the ability— I've read somewhere, and certainly don't quote me on this, that basically a lot of jobs will be automated, but jobs like the baristas, for example, will stay around at Starbucks because the need of critical thinking and making those engagements with the guests is so important that a robot can't replace that immediately. So how do we— if everything else is automated, then the only way that we can really differentiate ourselves is by that human interaction that we're providing for our guests.

Yeah, that's a great point. The other day I had the best coffee in the world and it was on the road at a convenience store from a machine. I just pushed a button and boy was it good.

Yeah, absolutely.

So listen, we're going to take a little improv improve your communication skill break here and then we're going to wrap it up about how hospitality, then we're gonna— you're gonna stick around and help me out with some, some listening. So let's take a little improv communication skill break here. Are you up for it?

Go for it, paint on.

All right, lovely, way to go. So this is what we're gonna do. We are gonna play a little thing called— I won't kind of give it away, but I'll call it— it's called Yes, But. So what's gonna happen is Shannon, I know you're a big Washington Nationals fan, so we are going to pretend that you are the, the new president of the Washington Nationals fan club, and you're trying to get me, Joel, on board to sort of be like the, the co-president to help you out with, with the Washington and with some events coming up leading up to the baseball season.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

I think so, yes.

All right, well, you're trying to get me on board to join you in planning some events that we could do for the Washington Nationals as you are the president now of the Washington Nationals Fan Club.

Got it. So I presume you'd like me to start this little impromptu interaction, is that correct?

You're going to start it, and then just so you know in advance, I'm always going to answer with yes, but.

All right, we can do it.

Just so you know. All right, here we go.

That's— I can make that work. All right, Joel, how are you today?

Um, okay, you?

I am doing wonderful. I have a phenomenal opportunity for you right now. Um, I would absolutely love your help on something that I think you're going to find absolutely phenomenal. Um, as you might be aware, the Washington Nationals won the World Series this past year. Were you familiar with that?

Yes, but I'm not a Nationals fan, so I was really disappointed.

Oh, well, I'm so sorry to hear that, but, you know, I know that you are into baseball in general, and so I'm really hoping you might be able to help move a few things, because I think even though you may not be the biggest Nationals fan right now, when I tell you a little bit more about some of the amazing things that I have in mind and what I know the Nationals are doing this coming year, I think I want to be part of it. Can we have a little conversation around the topic?

Yes, Shannon, but that sounds like a lot of commitment. I just don't see myself in that, giving up that time.

Fair enough. I know that sometimes when you have a lot of things on your plate, and you are a really busy guy, and you've got this huge communications aspect, you have this podcast going, there's so much, so many things on your plate right now.

Okay, Shannon, I'll pause you right there. You're doing great. You're doing fantastic. We're gonna, we're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a, a reward for working so hard at this. We're gonna go back in time, back to when we first started this conversation, and now I'm gonna answer everything with yes, and.

All right.

So go back in time. You don't even have to change anything. Go back in time. I'm gonna— yeah, this is take 2. Here we go.

Oh yes. Joel, how are you today?

Great. How about yourself?

I'm doing wonderful. Hey, I have an amazing opportunity to talk to you about. Um, are you familiar with the Washington Nationals and the fact that they won the national— uh, the World Series this past year?

Yes, and I'm so excited because I was a, a, an Expos fan, and of course they became the Nationals. So it's so exciting to see this happen.

So see, by proxy, you actually won the World Series too. So I'm, I'm thrilled that you're so excited about this because I have, um, an amazing opportunity I'd like for you to consider because I can't think of anybody else other than you that can make this happen. Um, I'm I am currently president of the Washington Nationals Fan Club, and I am looking for someone to help bring some of our amazing activities to life. Is that something you might be interested in helping me with?

Yes, and I'm so glad you asked me. I've always wanted to be a part of baseball somehow since I, I couldn't play it. Oh, that— thank you, Shannon.

Oh, hey, it is my pleasure. I'm so excited to have you on board. I think we're having a great season ahead of us.

All right, so we'll pause right there. Shannon, how do— how are you feeling?

I'm feeling great. I haven't done that since improv class way back in the day. It's fun.

It is fun.

It is fun.

How did you feel when you were being yes-butted? How did that feel to you?

You know, it's so much— it's tough. It really is, because you want to maintain a sense of enthusiasm to get people to do, you know, to influence them on the right way, not to do what you want them to do. But it's tougher. It's a much tougher road to climb with that.

It really is. It's like running up a hill against the wind. How did it feel when you were being yes-anded?

Oh, it's much better because it feels like you're on the same team. You're trying to make sure that everything— you guys are on the same page the whole time through, and it kind of builds more and more positivity, enthusiasm. So kind of going downhill, but in a good way.

Yeah, exactly. Without putting the strain on your legs as you're going down the hill.

Exactly right. Riding downhill.

Lovely. And I think this really ties in. As you said, you did some improv. The idea of yes, and, which is the real title for this exercise, is about having more of a collaborative mindset.

Mm-hmm.

And it's those small moments of when I go in, how can I influence them? How can I give a more collaborative or make that person feel more welcomed or Or as you said, more just feeling much better, which is starting with that yes and mindset versus yes but.

Exactly right. And a lot of times too, if I can just add to that, especially in the business world, you can't always say yes to everything, right? No one can. And so even approaching that when situations where you're going to have to give someone bad news or not deliver what they want, share everything what you can do for them. to keep that positivity and buoy them back up is so important too. So it's kind of that pivot point that can make the difference.

Yeah, I love that pivot point. Absolutely. It really is. So we're going to go into listening in just a couple minutes, but let's bring the hospitality here and thoughts around that. You know, we talked about the processes. We talked about Walt Disney. We talked about the mystery shopping, the customer experience. We talked about the checking off the boxes and that The difference between a transaction and between genuine hospitality, I think, is that of the host. We talked about those beginning, those first impressions. What are we missing here from hospitality mindset?

Oh, wow. I think those are really the key pieces of it, but there's also an underlying level of passion Mm-hmm. That you have to have coming into whatever you're doing. And I say that because, and you know, you and I have talked about this a little bit too offline, that you can have— you can go to the best hotels in the world, the 5 stars, the 5 diamonds, etc., but if you have people behind the work that are there to check the box or just to do the transaction or to even give you the nice amenity that goes with it, but there's no sense of passion and real care behind it, it loses the experience. Some of the best service I've ever encountered are at some limited service brands just because the people who are behind the desk are just happy to be there and they want to make your stay better. And they want to make you have this— want to come back to their locations. And those are the experiences that really stand apart because there aren't that many frills at some of the limited service brands.

Yeah.

It's kind of more of your basics, but they're executed so well and they're executed with a smile and with eye contact. And with follow-through from the associates that are working there, that in many cases I'd almost rather stay at those locations than the really amazing luxury hotels that don't have people that really have that passion behind it, but they're just there because of whatever the reasons may be.

That's a home run. Absolutely, Shannon. Welcoming you into their home or their business, and that's how they're running it. And those 5-star experiences, I like to say it's Your acting sucks. We can see you're just trying to act the role, but it's missing that authenticity or that passion, as you say.

Absolutely, because you can have the experience at any level in any business if you just do it the right way.

Yeah. Well, from this, we're going to— I want to be respectful of your time, Shannon, and I want to get into the listening exercise, which is such a big part of hospitality. So if you're game, I'd like to I want to do one more activity with you around listening. Are you up for it? Okay.

Sure, let's go for it.

This is called listen, rant without solving the problem. Shannon, this is what I'm going to ask you to do. I'm going to give you a 45-second rant and I'll time it. While I'm doing this rant, I'm going to ask you, A, to not take notes.

Okay.

So you're listening. As you're listening, you can still give a verbal nod, you can still give a mm-hmm, but you can't interrupt me. And at the end of my rant or my sharing my problem, you are not allowed to solve the problem. Not allowed to solve the problem.

Okay.

As tempting as it is. I know.

I'm a solution-oriented person. I've never met you in person. That's tough, but okay.

What I will ask you to do at the end of this is simply just reflect back. What did you see? What did you hear? What did you see would be maybe what the emotions that you're hearing. What did you hear? Maybe some of the ideas that you're hearing. And most importantly, what did you hear that was my care about or what seemed important to me? So that's basically your mission, your task in this as you're listening to me.

Okay, let's give it a go.

All right, great. So I'm going to just get my timer here going. And 45-second rant, here we go. All right, Shannon, here's my challenge. Both of my boys play a high level of baseball, which is great. I love baseball. It's good they're getting out of the house. But here's the problem for me is that I can't stand When we go away for those weekend tournaments, when we do stay in sort of those crappy motels and a bunch of teenagers are running around the hallway and the parents are drinking in the hallway, and that is just not my idea of fun. It's really, really frustrating to go to that, and to be honest, I get pretty anxious When I'm about to go to these things. Oh, and 45 seconds. There we go. So take a couple seconds, Shannon. Just take a couple seconds here. Just digest. So I'll give you some digestive music. Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. All right. And then so reflect back. What did you see? What did you hear? What seemed important to me?

Okay. So what did I hear immediately? Frustration. You finally said it a little bit into the— into your rant, but frustration from the get-go. And I think it wasn't just frustration with the hotel, or the motel that you phrased, and the—

Yeah.

It was also the frustration of the people you had to be with. And probably, if I'm going to probe further, which is almost like it becomes a therapy session, probably a frustration of the time lost and the sacrifices you had to make around that piece. So I think there is a little bit there, and the fact that there's a little bit of anxiety for that, and that you just feel really uncomfortable in those particular situations. Am I on track for you there?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'll tell you how I felt, and then I'll check in with you how you felt. So what you just said is the key to listening, that listening is Listening is the gateway to someone feeling understood. So before you can go ahead and solve it, I am already feeling like you really heard me. And not just heard me, as you gave some nuance there, you really understood. You had some insight there that I hadn't even thought of because that's kind of what happens when we rant. It's in our head, but when we say it out loud and then you reflect back, it's like, oh, I didn't realize I had so much anxiety around being with the people that I I'm gonna be with. And I didn't even realize that, oh, time lost is— time is important to me. So you've earned the right to get into a dialogue now. Not just— we're not— you're not just being my therapist. We're gonna have a dialogue now about, about these issues. Yeah.

That's exactly right. Yeah.

So you nailed it. How did it feel for you as, you know, someone who is, I would imagine, a lot of times, you know, solving problems and putting out fires?

How did that feel for you to Um, you know, a lot of what you just said, and I have to say, of the people who've yelled at me, you've been the nicest. Um, you know, with that, but sometimes it's important when you, when you hear that coming at you, and you, especially if you have the person right in your face, and you and I are on the phone right now, but if they're in front of you and the face is red and the veins are popping and whatever else is happening, Yeah. To try— it is really hard. I will never discount this for anyone who is in a frontline service role, or any role where you have to deal with customers, be it internal or external, and someone is in your face about it. You almost have to take that step back for a second and disassociate, just to listen to what is actually happening. And also disseminating what is opinion versus what is fact in a situation. Because that can be really tough, right? And what are the facts you actually can work with, and what are opinions around those facts? The opinions may not be able to change in the moment, particularly if someone is really angry. But empathy to where they are, if you can, and again, authentically do it. I think sometimes, especially when you are dealing with some large-scale organizations where you call for, you know, help, and they are like, you know, I understand how you feel, and they say it in a very robotic way. No, you do not. You are saying that because it is on your transcript.

That is right.

But versus saying, you know, Joel, I completely, I know how frustrating that is when you want to get some sleep and people are just running up and down the hallways and there is nothing you can do about it. When you can reflect and or state the statement, it builds that empathy and the fact that you're on that person's side. And that can at least sometimes, not always, defuse situations to a point where you can have a rational conversation with the person in front of you who might be really upset.

Shannon, you're batting 5 for 5. Well, thank you. You nailed it again. That really is— because listening is the gateway to empathy. And I love this, but opinion versus fact, because that is so important. And as you said, when someone is screaming at you, we take that as a fact when it's really— it's an opinion. It's their own stories, their own bad experiences that they're relaying. And if we start taking that as fact, that's where we get into trouble to be able to listen or to empathize then.

Exactly. And that's a really hard thing, particularly for people who are passionate about what they do and really love what they do, to have anyone come in and criticize their work is really, really tough. And so it's very easy to say it, and you almost have to keep reminding yourself when that person's in your face yelling, this is probably not about you. And just focusing on those little elements can also help you keep a little bit calmer in the situations too. Sometimes it's the only way you can get through them in the moment to get to a space where you can kind of decompress afterwards.

Yeah, most of the time it's not personal unless you really spilled hot coffee all over them, all over their white suit.

Right.

But, you know, it's professional. It's just they've had a bad experience with the brand, or they had a bad experience with something that happened before, or you remind them of somebody. But it's not about you most of the time, 99% of the time.

Exactly. And a few times where it really is your fault, which happens, I mean, everyone makes mistakes, of being really upfront and owning that, saying, we made an error here. Here's how we're going to fix it for you. And I think that goes a long way too. It's harder when you're talking around an issue and deflecting the blame versus saying, yeah, this is on us and we're going to make it better for you. That goes a long way too because some people don't want to do that.

Thank you, Shannon. That's a great way to wrap that up and to basically make people feel much better about those situations. So Shannon, I want to be respectful of your time and kept you 5 minutes past your time. I'm glad I didn't overcast when I said I was going to keep you. Before we go, we're going to take a little break and then I'll talk a little bit more about listening. Shannon, where can we learn a little bit more about you or maybe connect with you?

Absolutely. You can find me on all the major platforms pretty much, but I do a lot of my work on LinkedIn, of course, and then also Instagram @SDRonella. Then on LinkedIn, you can find me there and connect with me.

Terrific. Well, thank you, thank you so much for your time. This has been a real pleasure, and I'm so glad we managed to find the time and speak about this. I think hospitality and customer experience mindset, you know, we covered so many things that are so important to influencing others and to make them feel right. So all the best, and go Nats!

Thanks so much, Joel, for having me. Have a great rest of your day.

Thank you, Shannon. We're gonna take a 2-minute break, and then we'll be right back with talking about listening for accuracy, not assumptions. Become our friend on Facebook. Post your thoughts about our shows and network on our timeline. Visit facebook.com/voiceamerica.

The pace of change in the world is increasing exponentially and shows no signs of slowing down. Leadership is evolving The world is rapidly evolving and requires more and more innovative leaders to keep up. Innovating Leadership: Co-Creating Our Future with Maureen Metcalf features interviews with global business leaders, thought leaders, and academics in a wide range of industries. Proven concepts and tools may be applied to build your organization and deliver sustainable success. Tune in every Tuesday at 2 PM Eastern Time, 11 AM Pacific, on Voice America Business.

Leadership is a vital skill set in today's competitive global economy. Being a leader is not enough to succeed.

You must optimize your performance and know how to imbue others in your organization with leadership skills.

Practical, actionable leadership insights are the focus of Leadership Development News, hosted each Monday at 9 AM Pacific, noon Eastern, by Kathy Greenberg and Relli Nadler on the Voice America Business Channel.

Drs.

Greenberg Berg and Nadler, who coach global leaders on how to be most effective, will share their insights and contacts. The path to leadership excellence begins here.

The Voice America Live Events channel is here now to showcase your corporate, individual, or organization's live event. Visit voiceamerica.com/liveevents to see all of our past live events and find out more. Whether it's a multi-day conference, special speaker, or single-day event, We've got everything to make your event a success. We can do a few hours or a few days. For more information about taking your event to the next level, call Jeff Spenard at 480-294-6417 or email info@voiceamerica.com. Again, that's Jeff Spenard at 480-294-6417 or send us an email to info@voiceamerica.com.

Voice America.

Voice America is where you are and where you want to be. Join us around the globe as we broadcast live from some of the most interesting events available. Don't forget to view all our live events, including on-demand access to past events that you may have missed, by visiting voiceamerica.com/liveevents.

Have you friended us on Facebook yet?

Why not?

Just go to facebook.com/voiceamerica or search for the keywords Voice America. Once you are part of our Facebook network, you'll receive daily messages about what's happening with our shows, this week's featured guests, and new happenings at the Voice America Talk Radio Network. And you can add your voice to the always active discussions on our timeline. Just go to facebook.com/voiceamerica or search for Voice America.

You are listening to TFR. This feels right. If you have a question or comment for Joel Silverstone, please send an email to joel@joelsilverstone.com. Again, that's joel@joelsilverstone.com. Now back to TFR.

Welcome back. And we are going to talk about listening for accuracy, not assumptions, for the next 12 minutes. Now, one of the questions that came up during the break And listening to Shannon Rinella's examples of someone is screaming at you was how do you listen when that is happening, when someone is in front of you or on the phone and they are screaming? So how do you maintain your ability to listen and not get defensive? So we'll talk about that. I will share some ideas around that. Here's the thing about why listening for accuracy and not assumptions is so important. This is the This is the biggest thought that most people are going through. I'm sure you're going to be able to relate this. You're not listening to me, says or thinks that customer, that employee, that colleague, you. That is number one. People just do not think that they are being listened to. Now, from our standpoint, we will believe. We believe that we are listening. Here's the clue. If the conversation is stuck, then you're Probably not listening because to feel listened to and understood is pivotal if you want to connect and move forward. And to me, why this is so important is what I've seen in over 20 years of going into so many different organizations around the world is the number one trend, survey says, is that people do not genuinely listen. They miss the point to genuinely connect. There is a turning point in every conversation. Even when someone's screaming at you, there's a turning point in every conversation where you can actually be able to lower that temperature because that person feels not listened to but they feel heard. And because they feel heard, they feel understood. In fact, here's the challenge when we're listening is some stats say that we misinterpret or change 70% to 90% of what we hear. As we know, we've got barriers in front of our way. And some of those barriers are, number one, is that self-talk. So we often tend to— our emotions get in the way. We tend to react instead of responding. We react instead of responding. So if you think about it, We're able to think approximately 450 words per minute. We can think 450 words per minute. How many words per minute can we speak? About 150. That leaves— there's a lot of numbers, but basically that leaves 300 words that are jumbling in your brain. That is where they fill in the blanks of that self-talk that gets in the way because self-talk often is negative. It judges. What is going on? So as Shannon was saying about not taking it personally, sometimes it's hard when this is triggering something for you. So that gets into emotional intelligence. But the first thing is to be aware of, am I listening to this person or am I getting wrapped up in my own self-talk? The other barrier that happens is when we're listening is we're thinking of a great question to ask. We want to be helpful. So we think that instead Instead of listening fully and maybe paraphrasing what we hear back or reflecting back what we hear, what is important to that person, as we just heard in that exercise, we think of that great question to ask or we think of an answer to solve it. But the person will not feel listened to if you are just asking questions that are towards solving it or if you just come in with an answer to solve it because there's no trust there that you actually heard them. The other thing that gets in our way is your values might not be aligned. So someone is screaming at you or someone is upset with you. And you may not be agreeing with what they are saying. You do not share those beliefs or you do not share those values or you have judged them or dismissed them. If they're talking about— if you're in a sales conversation, for example, and they're saying, I don't see the value in this, and you fully do, you are dismissing them. You are no longer being curious, which is the next part of listening is to be curious. And the interesting thing about curiosity is that we are usually only curious about the things that we have some sort of understanding around. I know, for example, when I work with consultants, it's really quite a challenge. I really have to flex my listening muscles because they are speaking to me about strategies and analysis and spreadsheets and all this type of material, and I am finding it really hard to listen because I have I have no context for it. So it's really a good self-reflective moment on how I can be curious. I'm going to share with you a couple of rules from acting to be able to listen better. Let me share with you a couple of statistics here. Speaking of the consultants, a couple of statistics here around why listening is so important. In about 400 surveyed corporations, which means there's about 100,000 They estimate that communication barriers cost an average organization about $62 million per year in lost productivity. So $62 million a year is lost in productivity because communication barriers. And again, it's many things in communication, but it starts with being able to listen. Because as you heard in that listening exercise we did with Shannon, when she was able to step back and listen, she was able to understand. And reflect back what she heard, I was learning more about myself and we were getting into a dialogue versus all the pressure being on her to solve it. Another survey from McKinsey Consultants says that miscommunication is expensive, that about 17 weeks a year is spent clarifying these miscommunications. So we think about that in a corporate setting about how important it is about clarity and about making sure that we get it right. If that happens on a global scale, imagine what happens one-on-one. So let's talk a little bit about what we can learn from the world of acting. And I like to call this the ABCs of listening. And the first one from this is like an actor. I like to call it the A of audience is watching. So an actor is on stage. They are doing their performance. The audience is watching. If they are not listening, if it feels like they missed that moment, then they could see it. It's not genuine. An actor has to really be really present and be so focused, not be thinking about their next line, but be thinking about what that person has just said so that they They could be in that moment. Even though they've heard the line numerous times, they still have to be able to listen to it as though it's the first time, including film or television, take after take. How do they do it? They have to genuinely listen. If not, it looks like they are acting, which leads me to the B, which is to be reacting and not acting. Think about that. When you are listening, to be reacting, which means to have Your body fully immersed in it. If you think of reality television as an example, they have done a great job of mastering the reactions. So often, the camera is on the person waiting for the rose or waiting for the other person to say something. Reacting is so important because your body is invested. You put your whole body invested into listening. There's no distractions and you're listening as though the stakes are high. Audience is watching, meaning that if you are not really being fully present, it's obvious that you missed the cue. If you are being reacting and not acting, it means your body is fully invested and you are not distracted. The final one, the C, is cues and clues. So as you heard me in the listening exercise earlier, there's all kinds of cues and clues. And so the clues are the facts, the ideas, what is important. The cues are the emotions. So when we're listening— and this is a big part, of course, of This Feels Right— when we are listening, we are listening for the emotions and the ideas that, that must come together. So audience The audience is watching. Be reacting, not acting. Cues and clues. Ideas and emotions. Meryl Streep, of course, is a very famous actress. Her quote is— oh, you know what? I lost her quote. Let me give you the quote from James Garner, another actor. He says, the trouble with most people is they're waiting for themselves to speak. If you listen You become involved. And he says, I learned to never anticipate. That helped me a lot as an actor. So not anticipating where you think this is going because you start tuning out. One other quote here from Melissa Daimler. She was the former head of global learning and organizational development at Twitter. And I like this. She says, listening is an overlooked leadership tool that creates an environment of safety when done well. Well, even in a world of limitless, instantaneous global connection, the most powerful mode of communication is that of 2 people listening. It's why we like to watch talk shows because we really like to see the dynamics of a real genuine conversation that is unfolding. As you know from the show, we do a lot of improvisation. We did Yes, And, which is such an important mindset. To be able to listen because you are not dismissing the idea. One. Two, the stakes are high when you have this yes and mindset. You're really being open to it. And the other rule of improvisation that comes out of that is you always want to make the other person look good. So when someone is screaming at you, how can you still make them look good, especially if they're not even upset at you? They're just having a really So, yes, and about how can we be collaborative and then how can I make this other person look good are ways that from the improvisational world that you can choose to listen. The final acting technique is what I like to call the cold read. How do actors get a script all of a sudden at an audition, for example, and do a cold read? cold read, meaning they have had little to no preparation time, is they don't read and talk at the same time. They're not distracted. They're not anticipating where the scene is going. They're being fully present. Listeners to TFR today, thank you so much for joining us with Shannon Brunella from Marriott Hotels and Hospitality Mindset, myself, Joel Silverstone. Thank you so much for listening about listening for accuracy. not assumptions. I look forward to your thoughts and comments. Keep sending them in. Thank you so much. Send them to joelsilverstone.com on my website or connect with me on LinkedIn, Joel Silverstone on LinkedIn, or on Twitter @SilverstoneTalk. This has been TFR, This Feels Right. Next week, we've got Philip Sterlin, the CEO of Summit Group and a former TEDx speaker as well. I look forward to speaking with you next week. I'll see you next week on This Feels Right. Have a great week and enjoy influencing others without manipulating. Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to TFR, This Feels Right. Please join host Joel Silverstone for another edition next Friday morning at 7 AM Pacific Time and 10 AM Eastern Time on the Voice America Business Channel. We'll talk again soon.