"Master Your Talk to Influence Others" with guest Brenden Kumarasamy

You're listening to TFR, This Feels Right.

Welcome to TFR, This Feels Right. I'm your host, Joel Silverstone, and for over 20 years, I've been helping people in business And sometimes in life, to be more influential using their communication skills. And what that means is they're able to influence without manipulation, to be able to speak to the logic of the other person, and most importantly, connect to the emotions. So the other person says, yeah, this feels right. Well, listeners, you're in the right place if you want to learn how to shift behaviors, ideas, and actions, and learn from leaders and experts in their field on how to be more effective in their communication skills. to influence without manipulation so that your audience will say, yeah, this feels right.

Hi there and welcome to TFR, This Feels Right. We've got our first guest with us, Brendon Kumarasamy, and before we jump in, let's check in with him and see how he's doing. Brendon, how are you feeling today?

Always amazing, Joel. How about you?

Well, I don't know about amazing, but it's, it's a good day. It's a good day. I'll take that. But I like your positivity. And I think that's one of the things that has drawn me to bring Brendon into this show is that Brendon is a— has a YouTube channel called MasterTalk. And in that, his mission is that everybody around the world should have access to communication skills and basically make their presentations stand out and presentation skills, feel more confident and courageous to make those presentations. And Brendon himself has been on a journey as he's got— he's a young gentleman with lots of insight and experience and has found his voice in how to communicate and wants to share with everyone. And I love that passion. And that's one of the big reasons why I want to have you on the show, Brendon, is I think it's something we can all do. And I think you're an anomaly in that you're, you know, with your— where you are at in your life, that you are So in touch with your ability to communicate. And I think that's really interesting. So is this correct? Do I have this right so far about you?

Oh yeah, you got everything right. I appreciate the intro.

Yeah, you're welcome. Well, let's jump in. And then this is what— I've got a few questions. And one of the questions we're going to ask towards the end is about the spontaneous presentation, because I think that just, just saying that word impromptu spontaneous presentation just creates fear. And panicking everyone. So we'll save that towards the end. But the first question is, you know, Brendon, what are some of the key things that you think make a presentation stand out or pop?

Right. So for me, there's not really tactics that make a presentation great, Joel. It's about the process behind the presentation. So I'll give you an example. Whenever you want to learn a new skill, say piano, for example, you have 2 options. Option A, Is, hey, you know, I'm going to try 10, 15 different songs, see what happens. And then nothing really happens unless you're Mozart. And option 2 is saying, or B rather, hmm, you know, if I just do one song 15 times, maybe I can get the hang of it. So then when you, when you play that song on the piano that you've practiced for hours and hours on end, and your friends are impressed, they say, wow, Joel, hey, you know how to play piano and you only know one song. Like gives you the confidence to say, Now I can tackle all of them, but we don't apply that same analogy that we do with any other skill, baking, ballet, or anything with presentations. It's Wednesday. Our client, our boss, our teacher says, Joel, I need a presentation for Friday. And you say, it looks like I'm not talking to my family for 2 days. Get your presentation together. You present it and then you crumble it up, throw it in the garbage. And this is why most presentations are not good. Because the best speakers in the world do the same presentation hundreds of times. So the way that we engage our audience is by first doing the same presentation so many times that the questions that we ask ourselves transition from what content should I put in this thing to what emotions do I want to convey? How do I make my message pop?

I like the— about conveying the emotions. So absolutely, practice is really key. And I think You've tapped on something, Brendon, which is when most people present, they're not thinking of their presentation about what do I want the audience to feel, so much as I want that— what I want them to know. I wanted them to be educated. I want them to be informed, but I want them to feel. Any ways that you have helped people or you yourself have figured out a way to, to be in tune for that or a question to ask yourself?

Right. So let's build on that, Joel, because I love where you're going. what you're going there with. So the idea is we need to practice in the right way. So the reason we don't ask ourselves, how, how do I want the audience to feel is because our content keeps changing. If we do a presentation, then do another one, to do another one, we're not practicing at all. We're actually not helping ourselves get better at communication in the right way. But rather, let's say we take a client and they're presenting, you know, a book that they're writing, and then they present that same presentation 10 times. Well, now they're not worried about informing their audience because now they know the content. They're not stressed about it anymore. Right? So it's in that moment that we can start asking ourselves the deeper questions to engage our audience. Here's an example. Most people or most speakers think about their audience. They go, oh, you know, I wonder who's in the audience. I wonder who's going to come. But the best speakers in the world talk to them. Dinners, coffees, lunches, lunches, deep discussions. They don't just understand who they are. They understand what their psychology is, what they believe in, what they aspire to be, and who they want to become. And I'll give you the best example within my own industry that I realized. A lot of my PhD competitors, what they tend to do, you know, they got an Ivy League degree or something. They give a workshop. This is how it sounds. Did you know that after death, public speaking fear has rampaged societies across the world? Obviously, You know, cartooning a bit here, but you get the idea. They talk about the statistics. They talk about glossophobia, which is a medical term for public speaking fear. And they basically talk about how scary it is and how we can overcome it. But if we take one step back, not 10, just one, and we talk to our audience and say, if the outcome that we want is to inspire them to take a stand, to inspire them to share a message, for them to do something important, to just take that first step, the last thing you want to do, Joel, even if it's correct, is to compare it to death. Why are we doing that? That makes absolutely no sense. Doesn't serve our audience. That's why I never talk about it in any of my videos. That is the difference between a speaker who thinks about their audience intellectually and talks to them.

Brendon, what's good about that is, and we'll talk about this now, is how that then affects your voice, your tone, your body language when your intention is clear about being more positive, about inspiring versus talking about Death or about just giving facts. So, you know, voice is something that people don't— maybe are not quite equipped, right? So number one, it sounds like your intention is going to help guide your voice. Any other thoughts around that?

Right. So I think one easier way for people to digest voice is the way that you show up for a presentation. Because I do have a video on vocal variety. It's just very difficult. It's really for advanced speakers. But I think one example can help us a lot think about this. So let's pretend the following scenario. Let's imagine it. We're waking up in the morning, right? And we're getting ready for work or whatever we have going on. We look in the mirror and we see someone who's really excited for the day. You know, I get to talk to my colleagues at work. I get to hear Brendon on this podcast with Joel. I get to have dinner with my family. This day is great. So when you look at yourself in the mirror, you see someone who's excited. And that is the energy that you project onto everyone else around you. Your friends, your family, your colleagues, and more importantly, your audience. But the opposite is also true. This day sucks. I got to listen to Brendon and Joel talk about something on a podcast. This doesn't feel right at all, actually. Then I have a dinner with my family that I don't like particularly. And then them dude cut me off in traffic. When you look in that same mirror that you looked at yesterday, there's a very different energy that comes out. And that is also the energy that you project onto everyone else around you, your friends, family, colleagues, and more importantly, your audience. So what's the punchline? The punchline is you are the mirror. As speakers, we project our own emotions onto our audience. So if we look uninterested, if we look like we don't want to be there, our audience is going to say the same thing. Oh, well, Brendon doesn't want to be there. But if we show up with positivity, reassurance, calmness, and confidence, that is the same emotion. So I want people to focus more on that mirroring exercise. It'll help them a lot.

That's it. That's, you know, Brendon, that's a really good perspective to realize that, you know, while you're up there, you're the mirror of what people are seeing. And, you know, what I like to call that is our unconscious intentions, which is, I know I got to present, but I'm having a really bad day, or I don't like the person that I'm presenting presenting to, or I know I've already judged that they're not going to be interested. And all that is the unconscious intentions, that self-talk that kind of gets in your way. So when you change it to more conscious, and you don't realize it, and you put on that fake smile, but everybody could see the eyes are dead, right? They're busy thinking, they're busy intellectualizing.

Right.

So this is a really good perspective. What is, speaking of self-talk, What do you think? Like, you know, let's talk a bit about your background. Like, you came into this kind of late to doing presentations. You were basically going to a school which was, you know, French being your third language basically. So it wasn't— this was not your path. So when did you sort of figure this out that you really enjoy communication skills and you really enjoy helping people do presentations?

Absolutely. And just to give more context to the audience. So I live in a city called Montreal in Canada. And in Montreal, it's one of the few cities in the world Where most people in the city speak multiple languages, namely French and English. And obviously I didn't know French, so I went to a French education system, high school, elementary. But because of that, I had to present in a language I didn't even know. So imagine the level of discomfort I had as a speaker. So you're right in the sense, Joel, that for most of my life— Come on, a YouTube channel on public speaking? How ridiculous does that sound? But what shifted was when I went to university. So my dream was to get a job in corporate, whether it was a job in management consulting or investment banking or some of those jobs, mostly to get out of poverty essentially, because I grew up in a really low middle-income household. But in that journey, I needed to master communication. But because the language of the institution shifted and I was studying in English now, I realized I was actually a lot better at communication than I thought I was.

Uh-huh.

And I was able to refine my skill really quickly.

Bernie, see, that's a really good perspective because, you know, my generation would say that you— but that— but in all generations, actually, would actually all say that they don't realize how important communication skills is in business. Everybody's so focused on the knowledge and the data and the logic. But if you can't get that message across, then that's, that's what happens. You're only speaking to a part of that. And that's what the show, of course, is about, is This Feels Right, is we can connect to the logic. Well, we also have to connect to the emotion, which is how we communicate. So the other person says, yeah, this feels right. So really, really good perspective on that. That's really refreshing to, to hear that. Let's take a little break here, a little what we'd like to call Improv! Improve your communication style. We'll take a little break, and then when we come back, Brendon, we'll talk about what again creates a lot of panic in people is that impromptu, that spontaneous speech. And I think we've got another exercise you're gonna share with us on what you do with that. Is that correct?

Absolutely.

Okay, great. All right, so let's do our improv, improve your communication style. We're gonna do something that's called last word, first word. Okay, last word, first word. So I'll start it off and whatever I end the sentence with, the last word has to be your first word as you start the story, and then I'll listen for your last word. That'll be my first word. The trick to this is we have to keep to the same theme to the story. Neither of us can hijack it. So we really have to be on our toes as we're presenting and stay within the theme of the story, not get sidetracked, which I think a lot of presenters do when they try to improv. All right, so I'll give us the title for the story.

You ready? Let's do it.

I think I may have found the best barbecue chicken. That'll be the title for the story.

I like it. Let's do it.

All right. I think I may have found the best barbecue chicken, but I'm still, I'm still not sure if I found it.

I'm still not sure I found it. So I kept looking through street corners, through, through cities, through countries, and finally I found it.

It was right there. It was a golden sign that spoke to me. And I walked into the restaurant and the aromas took over. And they said to me—

They said to me, welcome home. I could, I could remember my trip that I took to Portugal a year before this moment. And I could smell those same spices, those same herbs take over my body. So I walked towards the counter and I I had the best barbecue chicken ever.

See? Bravo! Well done. Good. How did that feel for you?

That was good. I used to do improv back in the day.

Good. Well, you know, really nice, really nice display of, you know, we had to listen to each other and really keep to the theme of the story and not hijack it. And that was really good. We were really collaborating, which is so important in You know, again, about knowing your audience. I like that, how you said that about the presentation earlier, which I think is the key here is what— how can I support this other person? Not just give them information, but how can I support them, make their job even easier? Let's go to master— this is one of your videos that I saw about master spontaneous presentation or impromptu speeches. And I thought, oh, that was a really interesting perspective because people don't talk about that. So can you share with us some thoughts about that? And then I think you have a little exercise that will put it into play.

Yeah, for sure. So I think one way of starting the conversation, Joel, is the following. Where does our fear of public speaking even come from? I've spoken to people in New Zealand, South Africa, everywhere, and we're all scared of public speaking. We don't know why. So let me add some clarity there. Where do we give most of our presentations? The answer for most of us is school. We don't wake up one morning and say, hey, Joel, you want to get breakfast and present all day? Doesn't happen. We're sitting in high school, college, university, teacher gives us a subject, and 3 things happen. One, we're never passionate about the topic, and we usually never get to pick it. 2, students don't care, not because they don't care about us, but because they're worried about their own presentation. School is one of the few environments where you're presenting to other people. who are presenting after you. So as you're presenting, they're thinking about their own presentation in the same way you're thinking about yours when they present. Teachers, very competent, very well-educated, very well-intentioned, but also very stressed. 40 students, 2 classes. Good luck getting one-on-one coaching. It's really difficult.

Yeah.

And that behavior gets perpetuated in all subjects, math, sciences, French, English. Arts, gym, music, over and over and over again, we're taught to believe that public speaking is a chore. Public speaking is a responsibility. If you're at school, it's tied to a grade. If you're at work, it's tied to a result. And if you fail at any part, you get punished. You get a lower grade. You get, you don't get the promotion at work. And we need to start to view presentations in a way that inspires people, in a way that makes a difference, in a way that allows us to share. an idea that matters. And this exercise that I have called the random word exercise helps us think more creatively about presentations and puts us in that discomfort a bit more every day. So just give me a random word.

Okay, I will. And then, and then we'll break, we'll break it down. I like what you're saying about all this because it's true. It's, it's, uh, uh, it's so frustrating when my kids do presentations and, and I see, you know, they didn't get a good grade and it was because they didn't have a checklist because Their hands were not on the podium or something like that. It's like, what? That's why you didn't get a good grade because your hands were not on the podium?

Joel, I got a B+ in my communications course in business school and I communicated way better than the teacher. Like, how does this make any sense?

Yeah, it's, it's meshuggeneh.

Yeah.

All right. You ready for the random word?

Oh, I thought that was the random word. I was like, what do I do with that?

Give me something safer than that. I'm sort of looking around. I'm thinking, um, ah, here we go. Uh, trophy.

Awesome. Whether we're running on a racetrack or dancing our hearts out or sitting in a pool for an hour getting ready for the next race, we all aspire to be competitors. Because life in many ways is a competition, not a competition of who's going to win, but a competition to show the hard work we've put in. And if we can master that, maybe, just maybe, we'll win the status symbol of any competition, the infamous trophy. Everyone wants to be number one. Everyone wants to win their race. So for you, those who are listening to me now, I ask you, which race do you want to run? And if you pick the right race, maybe, just maybe, you'll win that trophy you always wanted.

Bravo!

Thank you. I appreciate that, Joel.

Okay, nice. And you know what's good is that you asked a question, right? So you do a good job, Brendon, of asking these rhetorical questions and to get to keep people engaged. So let's break that down. You didn't know where the word was coming. You managed to make a presentation that appeals to the audience. And you asked rhetorical questions. And I noticed you're using a lot of, you know, a lot of pausing. You're not rushing yourself.

Right. Of course. So the way that I want to break this down to make it simple for people is do not compare yourself to me. I've done this literally thousands of times. I do it on every podcast I'm on. So naturally I get a lot of practice, even if I don't want to practice it. Right. So the point is, When you start doing the exercise, it's not really important what you do, but that you do it. So when I started doing the random word and I started looking at couch, I was like, uh, how do I kind of put a couch in a presentation? And then you're going to start to panic. But every day for 5 minutes, if you do 5 words and you do that exercise 5 times a day, sofa, couch, teddy bear, even if you're in a position where you actually can't present, you're in a public setting that day, I still want you to do the exercise in your head. So one thing I do when I'm walking on the streets in my city is I look at a child or I look at a hotel or I look at a laundry or I look at the road and I just say, if I was given this word, how would I make this presentation? Let's say when I look at building the first time, I just go, I don't know, like buildings are places where people work.

Right.

But then as you get better, you start to go, oh, you know, actually buildings are the walls in which We're able to protect ourselves, to stay focused on what we love to do, and then we start to develop.

Well, Brandon, I'm going to interrupt you here for a second because what you're, what you're also doing, and just, you know, for our listeners to understand, is that you're not just doing a monologue where you're— which is where people get trapped in doing a sort of spontaneous or impromptu or any type of presentation. What you're doing is you're finding why should people care about what you're talking about? Why should people care about the buildings? Why should people care about the children? Why should people care about the trophy?

That's very powerful, Joel. And I agree with that analysis. I guess the way I look at it is at some point you'll cross over. So let's say, for example, with me, I was that monologue kid for the first year I was doing this exercise. Uh, you know, I'm not sure, suitcase. Why did you give me hippo, John, or something? Not you, John. I know your name's Joel, but like some random person. But then over time, like you said, then you make that transition. Then you start to do more advanced things. And I— but I love what you said there. I totally agree.

This is a great exercise, random word, as a way to sharpen your skills about— you'd be— one would be surprised if— when you give yourself a chance to actually put a presentation together, put some words together, put some thoughts together. And you might— you will— and what I'm hearing you say, Brendan, is you will surprise yourself. The more you do it, the more comfortable you become with vocabulary, with feelings, with direction, and with the questions you ask of the audience.

Right. And just to kind of tie a bow on this, to make this super simple for people, I want you all to imagine what's possible in presentations. Because if you can present a random word you were not expecting and still figure something out, imagine when you go back to the presentations that you actually know something in that you've presented hundreds of times. When I first presented my keynote on communication, number one, it's presenting to 2 people, my mom, my sister, and then my 2 other friends. But after 300 times of doing that same presentation, you can imagine that it doesn't matter what question I get. I always know the answer because there isn't a question I haven't been asked at this point. Why am I telling you this? I'm telling you this because if you can master the random word exercise, nothing is going to stop you from sharing your ideas with the world.

I'm writing this down. This is gold, Brendon. Gold.

I thought you said goal. I was like, oh, you brought me back to the hockey game.

I was like, All right, Brendan, before we go off, where can we find out more about you and MasterTalk?

Of course, I'm not famous or anything. So for those who want to message me directly, you can message me on Instagram. I'm @masteryourtalk. Any questions, comments, insults, complaints, I'm always happy with anything. I answer everything. YouTube channel is MasterTalk in one word. So if you want to learn all of my advanced public speaking tips I usually don't go over because we don't have 3 hours on a podcast. Feel free to watch all of that stuff as well.

Great. Well, listen, thank you so much for your time and this random word master— those random— that random word exercise.

Gold.

Gold, Brendon. Thank you so much. And we look forward to see you at MasterTalk on YouTube or Master Your Talk on Instagram.

Exactly. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. This has been TFR and we will see you next week.

Thank you so much for listening. And if this felt right and you would like to see this interview, then come on over to our YouTube page at youtube.com/thisfeelsrightpodcast. Or join the conversation with our Facebook group at facebook.com/thisfeelsrightpodcast. Or if you just want more influencing tips and communication skills, then please connect with me on LinkedIn, Joel Silverstone, or come on over to Silverstone Communications at www.joelsilverstone.com. I look forward to connecting with you.