"The Power of Stories" with Tracey Erin Smith

You're listening to TFR, This Feels Right.

Welcome to TFR, This Feels Right, and with us is Tracy Erin Smith, our guest today. Before we jump in, let's check in with Tracy and see how she's feeling. Tracy, how are you feeling today?

You know, Joel, I'd say at the moment I'm feeling amazing. Other times I cry because I don't want to eat vegetables with my pasta. It's just sort of that time in the world where I think everyone's on their own roller coaster. Wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, absolutely. That's why I put butter on everything.

That's the new hashtag, butter on everything. Butter makes it better.

Yeah, that's right. Well, this is a really— this is going to be a really fun show. Tracy and I have known each other for well over 20 years, and we like to say that, you know, we basically Somehow we're separated at birth where Tracy's like the sister I never had. We definitely— there might be some giggles in this show. That's kind of the relationship that we have here. Tracy is an international award-winning performer, speaker, and teacher. She's the founder and director of Solo Theater. We're going to talk a little bit more about that because it's a lot about storytelling, and that's going to be a key part of today's show. And when I say award-winning, she has performed off-Broadway in New York, Israel, coast to coast in Canada, San Francisco, and of course so much work done here in her home of Toronto. And really exciting, is also the host and creator of a show on Amazon Prime called Drag Heels. So before we go any further, is this right? Do I have this correct?

Absolutely.

All right, great.

Nailed it.

Lovely. Well, I also want to say welcome to everyone to TFR. It is great to have you on the show. TFR, again, we— this is the show that's about how to influence others without manipulation. And what that means is we're able to speak to the logic, most importantly connect to the emotion, so the other person goes, yeah, this feels right. And so listeners, if you want to be able to learn how to influence, shift behaviors, ideas, and actions without manipulation, then you're in the right place to learn from leaders and experts in this field. And that's where we go to Tracy Erin Smith. So Tracy, let's talk about Drag Heels. Congratulations, this has been picked up for its second season on Amazon Prime. So if someone hasn't had a chance to see it yet, what is the story of Drag Heels?

Well, thank you so much for the congratulations. And this is a TV series based on my process of of solo theater. But in this particular case, we take 8 drag artists. So these are people who perform in drag, sometimes drag kings, drag queens, or in-betweens. Now it's very popular. You can do drag clown, all kinds of things. So they go through my process every week, which is transforming material from their own lives, personal stories, into a one-person show. And they combine that with their drag. And then we have a big show at the end of the, of the whole series. And drag is very popular right now, as I'm sure everybody knows, and Drag Race with RuPaul. But what we say about our show is that there's no eliminations, only celebrations. So it's not a contest. We start with 8 participants and we finish with 8. And the power of, of the spectacularness of drag with the very heartwarming personal stories, what's really a winning combo. So people seem to like the show. It's been great.

That's amazing. Well, you know, Tracy, this is one of the reasons why I've always been a big fan of yours, and you have so many fans around the world, is this ability that you have to really connect and bring people's stories out. So we're gonna talk a little bit later about something you are doing that's very relevant to, to COVID right now, is that you're offering this ability to reach out to loved ones and get their stories out recorded for people that are not able to connect with them. So we're going to talk about that towards the end. We're going to take our little improv, your communication break in between. But first, we're going to talk about storytelling, which is your, your solo company. And solo, S-O-U-L-O, because it's not just about solo. It is really about this ability that I've always appreciated, its ability to tell stories without becoming, oh, woe is me, or, you know, sort of tragedy. It's a gift on how to do that. There's a process. We'll talk about that. But first, everybody's thinking, oh my goodness, there's no way I could get up on stage and tell my story. It's scary. So why do people do it? Why is it so scary?

Okay, those are 2 great different questions. So I think people do it for a variety of reasons. I think people come to believe that they have something of value to share with others. That they've lived through something that if they shared their experience and how they got through it, it could be of benefit to others. That they have a deep need to be seen or heard can also be a valid reason. And there's a few reasons why it's so scary. And one is a petrifying fear of rejection, that if I stand up there and tell the truth about decisions I've made or what I've been through or what I lived through or what I did, that the tribe or the audience or the community will reject me. And this is a very ancient fear because in the olden days, like way, way back, if you were rejected by your community or your tribe, you were banished and you would literally starve to death in the woods. So that doesn't happen as much anymore, although you could draw a parallel to being called out in social media.

True.

Being socially rejected can be devastating, devastating, but it used to mean death. So that's why it is so closely associated with that primal fear of I'm going to die because I'm going to die if I fail. That's the main thing, not by doing it, but if they don't like it and if I'm rejected.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean, I guess that's, that's the feeling that we're going to be judged, we're going to be assessed, we're going to be evaluated, but on a deeper level, it's we're actually Rejected.

Exactly. It's the consequences of being rejected, which is I will then be alone. I won't have any company. I won't know how to find food. It's like just an ancient reptilian, ancient fear.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, so now, and this is how it ties into the show about This Feels Right, which is I think this is a gift for people who've had the courage to say, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try this. I'm going to try to tell my story. And the ability to influence others now is that if you are feeling confident and courageous to be able to actually tell your story, and sort of— and this is where you come in, Tracy. You know, how do you do that? How do you help them feel that confidence and courage to craft the story?

Well, you just used an excellent word. It is about crafting. So a lot of people come to me because they'll come and see the solo class shows. So they'll see the final performances of people each doing their 10-minute pieces and they, they, they're wowed by it. And then they, they finally get up the guts to say, okay, I want to do that. So the class shows are my best infomercial when you see others do it.

Yeah.

And then when they come into the class, they realize a few things. And one is that they, they have 10 or 5 weeks depending if we're doing it once or twice a week and it's a process. So they don't have to just get up on the first day and do it. The whole first number of sessions are designed to excavate their history. So we go sort of looking for stories in their, in their psyche, in their history, in their souls. And then this is the metaphor that I use. So we go swimming around in your soul looking for stories, and then we catch a story or a fish, and then forgive me vegetarians, but we fillet it.

Uh-huh.

We season it. We cook it and then we serve it to an audience. So what I say to my participants is, I will not allow you to slap an audience across the face with a raw fish. That is like an AA meeting.

Yes.

AA meetings are great. They save lives, but they're not necessarily good theatre. So we go through a process with the raw material so that, so that what you end up delivering at the end is a gift to the audience.

Yeah, I like that. It's a gift because I guess the traps are if we're playing, you know, you said like we're playing to sympathy and some other things, right? So what are some of those other things, the traps?

Well, the traps are that you are up there to try to get something from the audience, exactly like you're saying, Joel, to get sympathy, to get laughs, to get attention. Then you're not coming With arms full of gifts for the audience. And if you want to influence people, if there's a life lesson that you've learned based on what you've lived, then you want to bring that as a gift. And it takes time to craft your story so that that's how it's received.

Yeah, I'm gonna write this down. Don't do sympathy, laughter, and gifts, because that's all, that's all the traps I walk into. Oh, whoa, it's me. Are you ready to laugh? Look at me, look at me. And apparently it doesn't work.

Yeah. No, or, or, you know, you won't get it, you know, when you, when you deliver a gift and when you're really, really honest about what you've been through and also what your struggles were. What, what I've seen time and time again is the audience come up to my performers with tears in their eyes and say, Thank you. I thought I was the only one. I never had the courage to say the things you said. I feel less alone. Like, for me, that stuff is worth its weight in gold if you've helped a human being feel less alone.

What's magical about what you're saying is that these are people who are not actors.

Exactly. Half my students are actors and half are not.

Yeah.

And It doesn't matter because you're not playing a role, you're telling your own story. So it's like the great equalizer.

Which can be even scarier to be telling your own story.

So it's only the actors that feel that way.

Yeah.

So a number of actors I've worked with, this is extra terrifying for them because never have they walked on stage unmasked.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, just, here I am, here's my life. They're always, you know, hiding behind or using, speaking through a character.

Yeah.

But once they get over that fear, they see how rich all the gifts are that they have to share without a playwright writing it for them.

Yeah. So how, you know, so I mean, it sounds like it's a lot of not being focused, you said, on, on, on the, the what you're trying to do, but maybe the, the intention. What's— so that you, you You have, you're not self-conscious.

Yes. So the way to get over self-consciousness is to be inside the story. So there's a couple of techniques that I can teach right now that anyone who's working on their story at home or their talk, it would help them.

Okay.

Okay. So one of them when you're writing is called using a thing called thick description. Now thick description is when you talk about an experience and you use all of the senses. So what did it look like? What did it sound like, smell like, feel like? What was the environment that you were in? You know, was it sunny? Was it loud? Was it— could you hear a pin drop? And what was the environment like inside you? Was your heart racing? Were your palms sweating? Were you getting butterflies in your stomach? All of that takes the audience and you inside the story. And if you want to stop being self-conscious— self-conscious is when you are conscious of yourself.

Right.

You're outside yourself. How am I doing? Did I say that right? Is my mouth too dry? Is anyone laughing?

Right.

You're in the story, that stuff fades away. And the audience is in the story with you because we can see and smell, and I mean sense when I say smell, not literally smell.

Yeah.

When someone is Is self-conscious and it makes the audience uncomfortable.

Yeah, like if I say it was, it was spring, you could smell that, basically. Nobody—

Yeah, if you said, you know, it was spring and it smelled like damp earth, right? You could faintly smell the lilacs and the birds were singing. Then I start to— I'm, I'm more in the story than I am judging you.

Yes. And I would be in the story too. Like, if I'm thinking back at that moment, I'm not busy looking at the audience or, you know, but whatever story you're telling, whether you have to do a presentation, whether you, you have to talk at a meeting, whether you have to talk to have a difficult conversation with someone, to be so present in the senses that you say, so that you're not focused on, you know, am I sounding stupid or how am I, how am I sounding?

Yeah, yeah, you, you were speaking from inside the story.

Love that. Okay, what's, what's this? What you had, you had another, another thing you want to walk us through?

Oh yeah, thank you. And the other thing is, so that's thick description using all 5 senses. The other one is what I call present tensing. So everything you say is happening now. So it's not, you know, I, I climbed up the mountain and I reached the peak. It's I'm climbing up the mountain. The sun is just starting to peek over the cliff. I can hear this eagle soaring above. It's now. You want the audience like walking alongside you through the jungle, hearing each twig break and each— so that it's happening now. That's how you get people. That's how you take them on a journey. And then when you finish, sometimes people will literally feel like they've just landed back in their seats. If you've told a good story.

Right. And that's a good way, you know, people always say, how do I, you know, if I'm going to do a talk or something, how do I remember what I'm going to say? Because if you're often trying to describe something, it was 1985 and there was 10 of us and Joel, Joel, you know, said, woof. But it's like, I'm in the bus and I'm driving the bus.

And it's going to make it easier because you're not thinking, I was, you're like, your brain will go there and see the people and you'll be able to describe. And the more clearly you see it, the more clearly the audience sees it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I could see that, like, that's the key. This is brilliant, Tracy, because you really get into the story.

Bravo.

You should run a course. Uh, but I love this because you are so into it, um, that you are not really focused The audience is with you on this. You don't have to pull them in.

It's not about you. It's about the story. Let the story do the work. And another thing I've discovered in recent years is this idea that sometimes you have to be careful that your personality doesn't get in the way of the story. So let's say, you know, I'm a very excitable, passionate person, which I am.

Yeah.

But let's say at some point the story calls for simplicity and stillness. I have to let my personality get out of the way so the story speaks louder than me. Right.

And again, I'm assuming that, you know, the personality is kind of what gets in our way sometimes of telling the story, that somehow we feel we have to fuel the personality.

Well, or sometimes the personality will hijack the story.

Right.

The story wants a moment of stillness. The story wants— like, let's say you've just said something really powerful. You want to literally, like, let those words sink down into the audience so they can absorb it. And if you're very hyper or excitable, which I am sometimes, you have to control that wild horse of your personality. To let the story work its magic, work its power.

Okay, and can the person— and I'm just thinking, I'm just wondering, can the personality be like a mask sometimes that we hide behind and that, that affects how we're going to tell the story? And, and maybe that's why we get into that trap?

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think there's a time to be yourself and be your personality on stage. Yeah, but when you go into the story, trust the power of the story. That you don't need to layer your personality on top of it. You can let your own natural humor come out.

Right.

But the most important thing is what happened? Where were you? Who said what? How did you get through it? Yeah.

If you have humor, yeah.

Which, which you do once in a while, Joel. You're lucky that way.

Lovely. Okay, this is good because, you know, what you're just saying about the About our personality coming through is that what I always think is take the story seriously, but don't take yourself so seriously.

For sure. That's perfect. I love that.

Yeah. Um, so you've been doing this for how many years then?

Almost 20. I developed the process when I was an instructor at Ryerson University, and originally I was teaching my courses there, and then I decided I wanted to go out on my own. And I started teaching, excuse me, across Canada, New York, San Francisco, Israel, Florida. And what's been the silver lining of what's going on now with the pandemic and everyone self-isolating is I'm teaching people from all over the world without leaving my home.

Yeah.

So I have people joining from Israel, from New York, from LA, and meeting each other. Like people, you know, because I teach in groups.

Right.

So it's been amazing to watch people share what their experiences are of what we're going through now, plus their own personal stories from the past.

So this, in a sense, this has been, you know, what have you seen for people? How are they like— this is kind of, in a sense, I'll say healing, I guess, in a sense. But it's— I mean, what are you seeing from these different groups coming together?

Well, I'm seeing healing and I'm seeing humor. So I've started doing this thing that I call COVID Confessions. Because a couple weeks ago on Facebook, I posted #COVIDConfessions.

Yeah.

I'm using self-tanner. What's yours? And so people wrote all these things. And so I'm using that in the workshop, the one that I do for the general public that's just an hour. And people are saying all kinds of things. Like one woman said, you know, I'll, I'll eat dinner, I'll brush my teeth, I'll get into bed in my pajamas with my New Yorker or Netflix. And then I'll eat some chocolate and I won't get out of bed to brush my teeth. I go straight to bed. Or another person said, I'm putting Nutella on everything. Or a guy said, I cut a Zoom call with my adult children short so I could watch American Idol.

But—

We're just confessing all kinds of things. So it's like this catharsis and it's humorous and people get to be honest, you know. Some of this is stuff I call— sometimes my work is like the anti-Facebook because it talks about all the stuff we don't put on Facebook. And if you want to be a powerful speaker, you need to look at the things you don't normally talk about because those are the things that will draw people in.

Yeah, that's, that's what's so interesting about like telling your story. I think that I'm envious of people who do that because I think that takes so much courage to do that. And, and it is, it's being— if you want to be able to really connect with people, no matter what you do, whether it be a speaker or just connecting with people one-on-one and in your community group or at work, feeling the confidence and courage to not, to not hide, to be, to be who you are, I think is one of the biggest payoffs of this.

Absolutely. I mean, if we— if you look at the people that we really love and admire, We love and admire them because they've figured out how to be themselves on purpose.

Yes.

They've figured out how to be themselves in public, and it gives us subconscious permission to then be ourselves, that we're okay, we're enough, we don't have to be like them.

Yeah, and that's what, you know, and it's funny because that's what we see. That's what someone who— we're attracted to people like that, and we always say, oh, that person is confident. Because they're able to be themselves.

Yeah, exactly. I think the confidence is, oh, that person enjoys being themselves. I know those are the moments when I'm happiest, when I'm like, oh, it's fun to be me. It's interesting to be me.

Yeah.

It's vulnerability. Yeah, go ahead.

Well, I was going to say—

It's vulnerability.

Yeah, go ahead.

How do you think it's vulnerability? In what way?

Well, vulnerability to me has always been about— vulnerability to me is always about— is actually about courage. That you're going to sort of have that courage to say, I'm okay. This is who I am. This is what I've got. This is how I'm feeling. This is what I'm thinking. And it takes courage to share that, not hide it.

And courage to share the stuff that you think you should be hiding. Like right now with what's going on, no one wants to hear from the person, I lost 10 pounds. I cut out gluten. I'm doing yoga 10 hours a day. I wrote my book. Like, this is all the same person.

Right.

I met the love of my life. I, you know, we're just like, oh my God, that's not what's happening for me. We want to listen to the people who say, you know what, I spent the day in pajamas. I ate a tub of double fudge beef or whatever, you know.

I love double fudge beef.

It's my favorite. I put some marshmallows on it.

Oh yeah.

And then I just stared at my cat and then I watched Friends. You know, we're like, oh, thank God. Like that, we want that feeling of, oh, thank God, I'm not the only one who's pretending, you know, or I don't need to pretend anymore. So—

But it's true, because even, even take ourselves out of COVID I'm always impressed by, you know, let's say the person who has like climbed Mount Everest, and you're like, oh my goodness, they climbed Mount Everest. And then they say, but you know what, this weekend, I binge, I binge-watched something and didn't get out of bed. It's like, okay, they're normal. They're normal.

So what you just said is so astute because we want the inspiration, but we also want the reality factor so that as individuals we can keep striving to do more, be more, be better, but also like give ourselves some slack, I think.

Yeah, that's been— I guess in a sense there's a weird way that the silver lining of all this COVID has been, A, I think we're going to be much more empathetic to each other. And 2, we all realize that we're all human beings with feelings, that we're not all these sort of perfect people.

Yeah, and to admit the fears, like, you know, my mother lives on her own, she's a senior, I'm scared for her, she's scared. Like, people are very vulnerable right now. And I think we always were that way, this just has magnified it.

And this is the beauty now, you're doing the storytelling online to get people to Um, be productive, I guess.

Well, in some ways, yes. It's like, it's like because it's a full process, meaning that I take you from not needing to have any idea to doing a final show, um, there is a big sense of accomplishment at the end. So that's what, what I— one of the things I like about my teaching is that you, you have something at the end. It's not just a how-to, now go away and do it. It's like literally I hold your hand and walk you through every step Until you take your bow. And then people will be like, wow, I did that. And I found that once they've overcome that fear, you know, people go on to do all kinds of things like jump out of planes and get married and write a movie script. And it—

Hang on, getting married is a big thing? Getting married takes courage?

It's not a big thing? It's not like jumping out of an airplane?

Maybe, maybe not quite. Maybe.

You think? For a lot of people?

But I agree, but I agree with you because I've met some of those people who graduated and there is like, I don't know, they feel much more comfortable in their own skin and much more confident. Yeah, yeah.

Anything you do, anytime you do something that you thought you couldn't do, you literally expand your sense of self. You're like, oh my God, I did that. Well, what else can I do?

Yeah, yeah, that's true. So on that note, Let's take a— and then we're gonna take our little break here. And then after the break, we're gonna talk about something that you're doing that is so unique, and that is reaching out to loved ones and getting their stories and using your narrative therapy to help with that. And I think that's really—

Yeah.

We'll talk about that. But before we do that, we're gonna do something that I like to call Improv Improve Your Communication Style.

Okay, amazing. Joel, is it possible that I can walk downstairs and then we'll do that?

You want to walk downstairs?

I have to go downstairs because Sarah has to leave, so I have to watch the puppy.

Oh, I see. Sure.

Oh God, it's gonna be a different background though.

Oh no, that's okay.

Okay.

All right, here we go. This is good.

We're—

I'll pretend like I'm walking too. So the puppy's gonna be on the show as well?

Yeah, why not?

Okay, perfect.

Oh, dinner smells good.

Oh, delicious. Lucky. Hopefully there's some butter double fudge beef. All right, are you, are you ready to— well, we'll switch it up because you have such a background in improvisation as well.

Okay, let's do it.

We're gonna do what I would call yes and. But we're going to switch it up where normally I'm the yes, and or the yes, butter.

Okay.

I'm going to make you, Tracy, the person who's always giving me the yes, but, and then we'll switch to yes, and.

Okay, great.

All right. So let's give a title to this, which is— well, since we're talking about doing yoga and getting off gluten and all that. This will be, uh, I want you, uh, to join me in running a marathon.

Yes, but you know what? I just got a new puppy, and so I can't leave the house.

Uh, yeah, well, maybe the puppy could come along for the runs.

Yes, but the puppy has the runs, so that's why she needs to stay in the house.

Uh, okay, well, how about, um, we find a schedule when, uh, you can go, maybe really early in the morning?

Yes, but mornings are really bad because the puppy and I do psychic training with each other. So I need those times with her. Okay.

All right. You got me. All right. Let's switch it up to yes, and then.

Okay.

I got nothing on that one.

Okay.

All right. Let's try it again. So I'll go back in time. There's the puppy. Let's go back in time.

Yeah. Okay.

All right. You know, speaking of all this sort of, you know, yoga and gluten-free, Tracy, what about you and I running a marathon together, training for that?

Oh, yes. And we could go to the keg after for some double fudge beef.

That's great because we will have, we'll have earned it.

Yes, yes, and then we could, we could go on Facebook Live and show how amazing we look.

Oh yes, that would be lovely because I would feel, you know, we both would show that it can be done.

Yes, and then we could go home to your wife and she can make us a cake.

Double fudge beef cake.

And scene.

I see. Perfect. Bravo. Thank you for bringing that to life.

You betcha.

Boy, that yes, but, it's tough when you're like giving me the yes, but. It is so hard. It's like—

You know, it's like it kills everything. It just kills everything. And, you know, if you're a yes, butter, you can kill other people's ideas and confidence too, which I think is the worst consequence of that.

Yeah. When we switch to the yes and, it's, you know, you don't— yes, the ideas sometimes get a little crazy, but what's nice is that it is— I said, but what's nice about it is that we are— there's a collaboration, there's energy, and we know we could downsize it later.

Exactly. It's much better to go too big and then pull it back. I talk to people about that all the time with creativity than start small and have to pull it out. And, you know, when you're brainstorming with someone, you'll come up with ideas that you never would have sitting alone in your room. With yes, anding is great.

Which I think is probably such a key to how people, how you get people to tell their stories, because everyone starts with a yes, but. I don't want to tell this. I don't want to tell that. And then you find a yes, and way to do it.

Yeah. And yes, and I will just sort of assign them home play, I call it, instead of homework. And then they do the assignment and I give a ton of positive feedback. Because it's so vulnerable and scary at the beginning, lots of praise and positive feedback at the beginning. And then later we get into how we can make it better.

You know, that's what I'm hearing so much from speaking to a lot of the guests is how important positive affirmation is, because we're already so hard on ourselves. We don't need another person to be hard on us.

Oh yeah. The voice inside is already tearing them apart. So I don't, I don't need to add to that. And I always picture people like plants and I need to pour a lot of water and a lot of sunlight to encourage them to grow and do something they've never done.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to quote Kira Callahan who talks about like self-talk. She says it's that, that it's that, it's like, it's like an FM radio station, self-talk radio, and it's always playing in the background.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You gotta turn that down.

You gotta turn that down and, you know, switch the station and yeah. Positive. Now we're on positive affirmations, but it's got, you know, but as I know, working with you, it's about, it's genuine and it's real. It's not just fluff.

Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because I mean, I am so rooting for everyone I work with. Like, I really am their own little cheering squad and the rest of the class becomes that too. So they're also getting that positive feedback loop from the other participants.

Yeah. How is it kind of learning how trust works?

Yes, yes, a lot of trust.

And speaking of trust, let's go, you know, something you just started, and I guess it started by accident. You were just thinking of a way to be helpful. And let me get this right, and you can correct me, which is reaching out to a loved one. You phone them, and through your narrative therapy, you get them to kind of talk about their story, and you record it so that it could now be shared with loved ones because We can't be with certain loved ones that might be in a difficult situation.

Yeah, so with what's going on right now, I was thinking a lot about, you know, seniors in care homes or seniors living alone. And I was wondering, how can I help? So I don't sew, so I'm not making masks. What skills do I have? So for almost 20 years, I've helped pull people's stories out of them gently, but, you know, And so I thought, what if I volunteered to phone— if you have a loved one that you can't get to see and you'd really like to have a recording of them telling their life stories. So I just, I phone them up, I tell them who I am. Usually I'm connected to their relative in some way, so they've asked me to do it. And for half an hour, I ask them stories about their lives and probing and follow-up questions to get them to explain. expand on things, and I record it, and then I send it to the person who asked me to do it. And it's such a treat. I mean, I was just speaking with someone who was born in 1937, and it was to get stories about her grandparents who had 65 grandchildren. And the whole family was really into practical joking. So one of them had a big birthday party. The grandmother was having a big birthday party, and one of the grandkids sent a cake. It was all gorgeous icing with With Saran Wrap on the top. And then when they went to cut into it, it was a cardboard box under the icing. So, and she was a great sport about it. She's like, you can prank me, but you also have to send a good present.

Yeah.

So I get to, you know, these secret doorways into people's lives. It's really an honor.

Yeah, that's good. Secret doorways is, you know, I would imagine, you know, and I know, and let's say talking to certain relatives, They don't necessarily want to share the story with me. I'm too close, or they don't want to bore me with it, whatever. But you have a way to get it out.

That's such a good point. Yeah, because you could say, well, why not have the relative phone? But you're right. When it's a stranger, or they frame it that, you know, my specialty is stories and talking to people about their stories, I might— because I don't already know the stories, I would ask questions that the relatives wouldn't ask. Or they might feel a sense of freedom with me that they don't have to protect me from certain details and they can reveal more of the truth.

Yeah, that's good. And so you have a background in narrative therapy, is that—

Yeah, I have 2 certificates in a technique of therapy called narrative therapy. And when I work with people, I'm not necessarily leading with that. I mean, I keep it in my back pocket because when we're making theater, it can be therapeutic, but it's not therapy. But there are some great techniques, like the one I mentioned earlier about thick description comes from narrative therapy.

Yeah. And, and, and, you know, we're going to sort of bring to a close, but I mean, you know, the power of stories. I mean, you have a firm, a big belief about that.

For me, stories are everything. So a number of my best friends are clergy, and I created a show called The Clergy Project where I took clergy from different faiths and helped them tell their stories. And one of them said to me, you know, after a service, when they're leaving the sanctuary and he talks to 200 of them, he said, what do you think people remember, Trace? And I said, I don't know, Sean, what do they remember? And he said, the stories.

Yeah.

It's always the stories. Stories are sticky. They stay with people. We're, you know, a lot of people, if you preach at them or teach at them, they will tune out because of maybe bad experiences in school. But if you wrap your message in a very compelling, honest story that you tell from the inside so they can go on the journey with you, it will stay with them.

And lights fade out and roll credits and scene. Absolutely, 100% agree. And, and it takes practice. It takes some guidance on how to tell those stories.

And anyone can do it. Once you understand the structure, that it helps to have a structure to go through, and you rehearse it, and you go from the inside, and you're clear on what your message is and why you're doing it, and that you're bringing a gift to the audience, you're not trying to get something from them.

Yeah.

It can, it will change your life, and I guarantee you it will change the lives of those who listen.

I love that. I mean, that's such a huge takeaway, like not to try to force that you're trying to get something from them. Like, you know, even if you're doing sales, You know, if you just focus on, I want to get this person to sign the contract, we— that's— you're just— it's a rabbit hole. You'll never get out of that. And I love this idea about being thick. You know, what are the senses, the smell, the sight, and all that, and being so present in the story so that you are focused on telling the story versus your personality, versus yourself.

Everybody has learned a secret or two about life. That other people need to know. Right.

I'm trying to think of something funny, but I got nothing.

That's a first.

Yeah, I don't think I have a secret. Tracy, this has been fantastic. This has really been inspirational about some of the things that you're doing. And, you know, thank you to reaching out to all these people and getting them to tell their stories and giving them the confidence and courage to To do that. So for those people, I mean, A, we're gonna watch Drag Heals on Amazon Prime. We can see you on that. But now if someone wants to reach out to you, whether it to be get you to connect with a loved one or looking into the SOULO stories, what are some different ways that we can reach out to that?

Amazing. Thanks for asking, Joel.

You're welcome.

My website is soulo.ca. S-O-U-L-O dot C-A. My email is tracey@solo.ca, T-R-A-C-E-Y. And every Friday I teach a free 1-hour solo workshop. If you want to get a taste of it, 11 AM Eastern Standard Time. So just shoot me an email and say you want to participate and I'll send you the Zoom link. It's super fun. You walk away with at least a page of writing and new ideas on how to craft your story. It's free. You'll meet people from all over the world.

That's great. I'm sure you do. That's excellent. Thank you so much, Tracy. This has been a real treat.

Oh, Joel, it's really such a pleasure. It's so good to see you.

You too, as well. So thank you very much, listeners. We will see you next week on TFR, This Feels Right. Thank you so much for listening, and if this felt right and you would like to see See this interview, then come on over to our YouTube page at youtube.com/thisfeelsrightpodcast or join the conversation with our Facebook group at facebook.com/thisfeelsrightpodcast. Or if you just want more influencing tips and communication skills, then please connect with me on LinkedIn, Joel Silverstone, or come on over to Silverstone Communications at www.joelsilverstone.com. Thank you, Joel. I look forward to connecting with you.