STOP Being at the Mercy of Your Emotions | Interview with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett

We don't see with our eyes. We see through our eyes. It's our brain that sees. So it's pretty apropos to say we don't see what there is to see. We see what we are conditioned to see. Or we feel what we are conditioned to feel. Hey, my friend, have I got an amazing gift for you today. What is it? Well, with me is an amazing woman who is on the cutting edge of of research and development on understanding the human brain and specifically emotions, neural networks, and our ability to change and to control and master our lives even more. How? By taking better control of your beautiful brain. Now, let me introduce you to this woman because Lisa Feldman Barrett wrote one of my favorite books of the last 12 months, seven and a half lessons about the Brain. And it is brilliant. She and I are going to dive into the book. She also is the author of How Emotions are Made. So let me tell you a little bit about her. Lisa Feldman Barrett is a distinguished professor of psychology at Northeastern University, and she also holds appointments at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital where she is chief science officer for the center of Law, Brain and Behavior. Lots of us need help with behavior, right? And she is among the top 1% of all cited neuroscientists in the world for her revolutionary research in psychology and cognitive neuroscience, both of which I am passionate about, and her research and ideas in the field of understanding our emotions. Your emotions are stirring the scientific community and you now get a deep, deep, deep inside peek into her brilliant mind. So are you ready? Help me welcome Lisa Feldman Barrett. Hi there, Lisa. Thank you so much for allowing me to do this interview with you.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Pleasure. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me on your podcast.

So much fun. As I mentioned to everybody before, this is one of my favorite books of the last 12 months. And not only have I read it three times already, I have got it bunny eared and underlined so many places. And this is one of the books that I am studying versus reading. And just to get us started, I want to have. You helped me bust a myth that I have been, I guess, responsible for promoting for many, many years because I just didn't know better. And so there's this old model of the brain basically known as the triune brain. You know, we have the neocortex, the limbic system, and the instinctual part of our brain, or the lizard brain as many people refer to it. And in the very first chapter of your book, that's one of the things you talk about. That we have one brain, not three. So can you please enlighten me a little bit more the audience that's watching us?

Sure. So when you look at a human brain with the naked eye, it looks like it has three parts, this ancient part for instincts, which we call the lizard brain, and then a part wrapped on top of that, which we refer to as the limbic system. Limbic meaning border bordering the lizard brain. And those two parts are supposed to make up your inner beast, the part that's seething with instincts and emotion. And then the big mantle, cortical mantle, with the cerebral cortex, which we call the neocortex, which is where rationality is supposed to live. When you look at the brain with the naked eye, it looks like that. And if you go all the way back through history, looking at the kind of stories that philosophers and scientists would tell about human nature, there's this story that the brain, or the mind, is this battleground between your instincts and emotions, your inner beast and your rational self. You know, the part that's most evolved of your brain, and that this battle is constant. And, you know, if rationality wins, you're moral and you're healthy. And if your inner beast wins, then you're either mentally ill if you couldn't control yourself, or you're immoral if you didn't try hard enough. That's the general morality tale that we've had with us, really, since Plato, I would say. But the tricky bit here is that when you look at the brain more closely, with more modern techniques, what you can see is that there really are no new parts. And that the brain didn't evolve in layers like sedimentary rock. The only brain on this planet that you know, the only animal on this planet that has a lizard brain is a lizard. And you don't have a deep inner beast. And your brain is not a battleground for emotion versus reason. It feels to us that way, but that's actually not what's happening under the hood. So there's a lot of evidence now, really, since the 1970s, that all vertebrate brains, that is, all brains in animals that have a backbone like us, really evolved in a continual way using the same manufacturing plan. Even animals that don't have a cerebral cortex, like birds, for example, actually have cells that are similar, if not identical to the cells that we have, which make up our cerebral cortex. So you really don't have three layers. You have a very big brain where the cells have reorganized as the brain gets bigger. But our brains really don't have any New parts per se, it just looks that way. It's just a trick of the eye, really.

So as we have this whole brain and we have the priority of the brain, I found it interesting in a dialogue I've had with a friend of mine, Dr. Evian Gordon, talking about the number one priority of the brain is survival and safety. You took it one step even before that to say, no, the number one priority of the brain is for regulation of glucose, sugar, salt, et cetera. And so as our brain developed and evolved to do that for survival and safety, is it also true that in order to do that we developed emotions and we developed instincts and we developed automatic functions within our brain to conserve energy as one of the primary facets of what our brain does?

More or less, yeah. I mean, I got really interested in the question of why do we even have a brain? I mean, brains are incredibly expensive organs, right? Three little pounds of meat between your ears take up 20% of your metabolic budget. That's a lot. And so brains have to be really good for something. And what are they really good for? What did they. What's their most important job? And there's this great saying in evolutionary biology by a biologist, his name is Herman Poncer, and he says that the goal is to translate energy glucose into offspring. What he's basically saying is that maybe in the long term you could think about a brain's most important job as safety and health and protecting you from threat and so on. But in a moment to moment, sense brains, their most important job is regulating the systems of your body. So you, right now, John and I and all of our listeners have a whole orchestra of a drama going on inside our own bodies that we're really unaware of. I hope for your sake you're unaware of what's going on inside your own body. If you knew, if you were aware of it and could feel it, you'd. You'd never pay attention to anything outside your own skin. Lots of coordination has to happen because health and safety and the ability to have offspring and rear them to adulthood requires efficient regulation of the body. Inefficient regulation of your metabolism and of the systems of your body are linked to, to every metabolic illness, including diabetes, heart disease, depression, like several kinds of cancers. So it's really important. The most important selection pressure on whether you have the capacity to have offspring and rear them to reproductive age is the metabolic efficiency of your. Of your nervous systems, regulation of your body. And so that's the brain's most important job. Of course, we don't experience things like that. Right. So every hug we give, every insult we bear, we don't experience that in metabolic terms, but that's actually what's happening. And in fact, because we don't feel every sensation that's going on inside our own bodies, evolution has fashioned us with kind of a simple barometer which are these affective feelings. Mood. So feeling pleasant, feeling unpleasant, feeling worked up, feeling calm, these aren't emotions. These are just simple feelings that are with us every waking moment of the day. And they give us a good rough estimate of how our nervous system and our metabolism is doing. So if we're a little depleted, we might feel tired. If things are not running efficiently and we're starting to maybe run a little bit of a deficit, we start to feel unpleasant mood or what scientists call affect. It's really with you all the time. And sometimes the brain conjures that into an emotion. But really these feelings are with you always. And they're not separate from rationality because they're anatomically you can just see in the brain, they're really at the core of your brain structure.

I love it. And when we talk about feelings and we talk about emotions, is it not true that, for example, if I was raised with its environment, whether it's parents that loved snakes and I had a positive association and maybe even a love for snakes, if I saw a snake or somebody came into a room with a 10 foot Burmese python, I might move towards it. Whereas somebody who may have been raised with parents or siblings that made them petrified of snakes may run out of the room in fear because of the conditioning that happened at a certain time in their life.

Yeah, exactly. So the really cool thing about human brains in particular is that newborn brains are not miniature adult brains. They are brains that are waiting for a set of wiring instructions from the world. And they get those wiring instructions from the physical world. That is like the sun and the physical services and so on. But they also get their wiring instructions largely from the social world. That is the way that we act towards the infant, the way we speak to the infant, how much we make eye contact and the infant is learning. And what that learning translates into is brain wiring. Yes, exactly. If you yourself are afraid of snakes, then it's possible that if your young infants or children observe you, they will learn to have the same response. Often what happens with little kids is that they will, when they see something unexpected, they stop, they freeze. Not because they're afraid, but because they're vigilant. They're trying to figure out, do I need to be afraid of this? Or do I need, you know, do I need to move away from this? Do I need. Or is this okay? And they'll often actually check with their caregivers, like, is this okay? So I'm sure you must have had this happen with your kids when they're little. You know, they fall down and they don't immediately cry. What they do is they look to you like, is this okay? Should I cry here? Is this bad? You know, they're checking in. And really what they're doing is because there's so much that's ambiguous for them. And they. They don't really have a lot of past experience to draw on. They look to us, and then we are basically teaching them. And that teaching results in the wiring of the brain to respond very automatically in particular ways.

And that would be another term is that's how we become conditioned. And then in the book, again, love this. In the book, you talk about we don't see through our eyes. I've been teaching this for many, many years. We don't see with our eyes. We see through our eyes. It's our brain that sees. Whether it's learning how to be in a relationship, what to expect, what the cues are from the external world or even from the goals that we have. Our brain is allowing this electromagnetic light into our eyes. And then our brain is predicting based on what is in the memory center, the wiring that's there. Is that an accurate, general understanding?

It is, it is. So the way that I think about it is that your brain is trapped. It's trapped in a dark, silent box called your skull.

A dark one at that.

It's dark and it's silent in there. And your brain is receiving information from the sensory surfaces of your body, like the retina in your eyes or the cochlea in your ears, or the taste buds on your tongue, and so on and so forth. And also inside your body there. You know, if your brain is regulating your body, your body is sending back sensory information back to your brain. Your brain's receiving this sense data, but the sense data is the outcome of some changes. Your brain doesn't have access to the causes to the changes. It only has access to the outcomes. When you hear a loud bang, for example, well, what is it? What should you do about. Could be a car backfiring. It could be somebody slamming a door. It could be a gunshot. When you feel a tug in your chest, what is it? What should you do about it? Is it anxiety? Is it you ate Too much at dinner and now you have indigestion. Is it the beginning of a heart attack? Your brain has to guess. And what does it use to guess? It uses memory. Now, you don't experience yourself as remembering, but your brain is constantly assembling, reassembling past experiences in order to make sense of these sense data. And it's doing it predictably. And the important thing to understand is that your brain doesn't ask itself, figuratively speaking, what is that sound? It's asking itself, what is that similar to from my past. The last time I was in a situation like this, and I saw and heard and felt this array of things. What caused it? And what did I do? And so the phrase being conditioned is really apt because, in fact, your brain is using your past in order to construct your present. So to you, it feels like you just see the world through your eyes. But actually, as you say, you know, you. Your brain is actually. Or I should say, let me say it differently. So to you, it feels like your eyes just are a window onto the.

World, like a camera, which is what you use in the book, which is a great metaphor or analogy.

But actually what's happening is that you see in your brain with information that. That comes in through your eyes. But you see in your brain, if you take your pulse, you're actually feeling your pulse not in your body, but in your brain. When you feel your heartbeat after you run, or maybe you've had too much coffee or you've just seen a scary movie or something, that heartbeat, that pounding in your chest, you're actually feeling that. Not in your chest, but actually in your brain.

So it's pretty apropos to say we don't see what there is to see. We see what we are conditioned to see, or we feel what we're conditioned to feel. Hence, if somebody maybe has been through a traumatic experience, a divorce, any other type of trauma, if somebody's lost money, if somebody started a business and failed, if somebody is started and stopped a diet 10 times, their brain is predicting a potential outcome like the one they've experienced or heard about before. And I would assume it's releasing the neurochemicals associated with that memory. And if they think about what they feel, and they feel what they think about, they keep perpetuating.

Exactly. So that's exactly right. And I think this is. There are two really important things, I think, in what you're saying, John. One is all of this predicting, which we can call it remembering, we can call it predicting, we can call it imagining. We can call it. It's all really the same thing. It's all happening under the hood really fast. By the time your brain makes itself aware of what's happening, it's too late. You know, the. Everything's already really kicked into gear. So that's why it feels to us like we have these automatic reactions and then we have to kind of put the brakes on. You know, you want to eat that second piece of chocolate cake. I use this example because yesterday was like World Chocolate Day or something. You want to eat that extra piece of chocolate cake, but, you know, you sort of the urge is there and then you have to really, really put the brakes on and it feels really hard. In part, that's because all of the planning of the motor actions and the preparation for seeing the cake and smelling the cake and tasting the cake is all happening automatically. Well, before you become aware of that, that's the first, I think, thing that's really important to understand. If you want to change those automatic reactions, so to speak, they're really predictions, but to you, it feels like reactions. What you have to do is really seed your brain with new experiences. That is to change or add to the memories that are there that your brain can make so that it can predict differently in the future. And that is a time consuming but very, very possible thing to do. I think that's an important thing to understand. I think the second thing to understand is that when your brain is making predictions, it's not some abstract thing. It's actually your brain is changing the firing of its own neurons. If you've ever heard a song going through your head that you cannot get out of your head, that is exactly the same process as your brain making a prediction. If I ask you, John, to. Or ask our listeners to look straight ahead, keep your eyes open, but think about. Imagine a Macintosh apple of the kind that you would eat. So a red apple. You grasp it in your hand, you can feel, feel that it's smooth and hard. You bring it to your mouth, you sink your teeth in. You hear the crunch, you know, when you bite into it, maybe you taste it sort of sweet, maybe a little tart. If you can see the apple, the ghost of an apple. If you can hear that crunch, if you can feel the apple in your hand, what's happening there is your doing this miraculous thing. You're changing the firing of your own neurons that are preparing you to see an apple, to bite an apple, to taste an apple, to digest an apple. If you've ever wondered why you salivate when you think about your favorite food or as you're sitting down to a meal, this is prediction in action. Your brain is preparing you to see and hear and feel and taste and smell and act before the need arises, because that's the most metabolically efficient way to run a nervous system.

I love it. One of the things I've been practicing for over 40 years. When I was 19 in Toronto, I learned how to do creative visualization and to write out my goals for health and wealth relations, career and finances and charity and fun and experiences that I wanted to achieve. And then to sit down and mentally rehearse. What would it feel like, what would it be like, what would my environment be like? And obviously take inspired action as well. And I started to achieve more of my goals than I ever thought possible. And I think it was part of this. Cognitive priming is what I learned to call it in the last few years, is prime my brain through a series of, whether it's affirmations, visualizations, mindfulness meditations. Is it possible, based on your research, to rewire the brain and neuroplasticity?

Yes, it is. And I would say priming is another, just another name for prediction. So, you know, something is important in science when scientists discover it again and again and again, and each one gives it like a different name. So there, you know, there are a bunch of names for what fundamentally is the brain's capacity to predict. Or sometimes you'll. You'll hear about the brain runs an internal model of the world. It's actually running a model of your own body in the world. And it's easier, it's just more metabolically efficient to predict and correct than it is to react from the get go. Brains that don't predict very well, that actually are reactive, are actually brains that are on the autism spectrum. There may be some advantages to having a brain like that, but there are also some serious challenges, too. And one of them is that you're often experientially blind to what's going on around you, particularly from other people, because there's so much ambiguity there. One of the reasons for predicting is that we live in a world of signals that are constantly changing and that are highly ambiguous. And we have to make sense of them in order to know what to do and how to stop, stay safe. And that requires running this model or having these predictions. And so when you're visualizing in great detail the goals that you have and how you're going to enact those goals, part of what you're doing there is you're practicing kind of laying down patterns of activity in your brain, just like when you're learning to drive. So, you know, when you're learning to drive, at first it's really hard, and it takes a lot of energy, and you have to concentrate on every little thing. And eventually, if you practice enough, you know, you can drive without really thinking about it. And. And you can listen to the radio and also talk to somebody and hopefully not use your cell phone. But, you know, it becomes pretty automatic. And the same unconscious competence, the same thing works, the same process works with learning to predict in new ways or training your brain to predict in new ways. So one thing that I started to do mainly as a challenge because one of my colleagues was doing research on positive emotions like awe and gratitude. And I think I'm, you know, I'm a bit of a skeptic. You know, I come by it naturally. That's why I think I gravitated towards science. And I was like, yeah, yeah, grumble, grumble. I'm not sure I really believe this. So I'm going to try it. I'm going to cultivate gratitude for five minutes a day. I'm going to cultivate awe for five minutes a day, and I'm going to see whether this works. It totally works. It does. So I still practice both, actually, and it's very easy to do now, actually, now when I need awe or I need gratitude, I can really just. Even when I'm, like, most furious, right, I can really just turn it off. And it's like I'm shifting my predictions to something else. And when I was practicing making awe, you know, I would pick really hard things. Like I'd look at a weed that was, you know, poking up through the crack of a sidewalk, and I, you know, something that really is not very aesthetically pleasing. And I try to experience awe at the power of nature to be unconstrained by humanity's attempt to control it and wouldn't, you know, actually works. Now it's easy to experience awe at the sunset or at the stars, but I started practicing awe at things that were harder to actually to allow me to construct that experience. And it was effortful and hard, but eventually it became pretty automatic. And it's a pretty useful skill to have. And the evidence suggests that, I mean, we don't know everything about how the rewiring of brains happens, and there are huge individual differences. But I will say this, that it's much easier to. You can't really go back and change your past. What you can do, though, is change your present. And by changing your present, you're basically seeding your brain to predict differently in the future. In a sense, you could say you're always cultivating your past to influence who you will be in the future.

Can I add another dimension to that and maybe challenge that for just a moment? So changing the past, you cannot change. I agree with that. But the meaning you give an event that happened in the past, that maybe you gave it a disempowering meaning, that you learn how to reframe it to something that empowers you, can change the past. So since memory is never the same twice, we can actually go into a past experience and make it brighter or dimmer or add an elephant to that event. From a neural networking perspective, we can actually change the neuronal structure somewhat and give it a different meaning.

Absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, it can have the same meaning and then have a different neuronal structure. So remembering is a really bad word because it implies that you're sort of pulling up a file fully formed from a file drawer, when, in fact, what your brain is doing when you are remembering, whether you're aware of it or not, is it's assembling, it's reassembling past experience. So it's always in this really active state. You're absolutely right. Here's the thing, though, that I'll say that you can definitely give past experiences new meaning. But there are a couple things I think, to realize about that. One comes from animal research, and it suggests that the original meaning is always there. You can't actually get rid of it. So the new meaning that you give it is a context. It's a new meaning in a context. So that means that old meaning is always there, and you will always have to battle against it. So it means that that old meaning can come back and kind of bite you in the ass at a moment when you don't expect it. And so I think that's the important thing for people to remember that. It's like sometimes you could think about it as a. Not maybe a constant struggle or a constant effort really, that giving a new meaning to an old experience is an active process that you will have to continue throughout your whole life.

Got it. And so I totally can see that it's almost like a road system in a city. And all of a sudden you create some detours, but the road system still there, even though it hasn't been driven on for many years. If you open that or you take away that detour sign, you Go back on those new roads, I call them. You create new roads or old roads. So changing the meaning of the frame adds context to it, but doesn't eliminate the roads. And there are certain triggers and cues that could reactivate them predictably.

Right. Because what controls your predictions is the situation outside you and inside you. So in every moment, like if we were to freeze this moment, freeze it in time, your brain will now make a prediction about what will happen next based on the pattern of what's going on around you and what's going on inside your own body. And so those are cues that your brain uses to make that next set of predictions where it's automatically without awareness, without making itself aware, automatically preparing you to act, preparing your body to change in particular ways, like your heart rate to go up or down, your blood pressure to go up or down, whatever. And they're preparing you to see and hear and smell and feel certain things. And then it waits for the sense data to come from the world and from the body to either confirm those predictions or to modify them.

Love it. I want to shift for just a moment on a question I've had that I think you will have the answer to. Is it accurate to suggest that we will do more to avoid pain or discomfort than we will to gain pleasure? Most of the time.

That'S a hugely debated. That's a hugely debated point. I don't think that we have a clear answer. And I also think that there may be individual differences there.

Like, somebody who might be an addict is looking to. Seeking to gain the high of whatever they may be using versus avoiding any pain, even though using, let's say, drugs in this particular case, they know that it's bad for them. They know that they're probably gonna come down off it and feel like a piece of crap, but they're doing it anyway because they're either looking to escape from something or they're looking to gain the pleasure from it.

Yeah, I think with addiction, there's pretty good evidence to suggest that with true addiction, people are not seeking pleasure. They're attempting to avoid the pain of withdrawal. And so I think trauma from the.

Past or the present.

Yes, well, yes and yes and no. So the way that I would say it is I think people start using. You know, you might start using an opioid because you physically are in pain. You know, like, I just had back. I just had spinal surgery. I'm recovering from spinal surgery. So I actually, you know, I used opioids for a couple of weeks to get through the pain. And get myself up and walking and so on.

My, my wife just had eight screws and two rods put in her back two years ago. And it took a year and a half because there were some complications that will say for another time. So I know which I know exactly.

I've got, I've got the rods and the screws too. So. Yeah, and so, so I think people start, they start taking medication sometimes because they're recovering from surgery or whatever. But pain really has two parts to it, according to the international. I think it's the International association for the Study of Pain. I think that's the name of the. This is the governing body of the scientists who study pain. There's the sense data, called nociceptive sense data that comes from the tissue damage in your body that it's being sent to your brain. But there's also distress because metabolically you're running a deficit in your. I often talk about the brain's attempt to regulate the body as running a budget for your body. It's not budgeting money, it's budgeting glucose and salt and water and so on. And so when you're recovering from an illness or surgery or something, your brain is running a deficit, usually because it's trying to repair. Your body's trying to repair itself, and you feel unpleasant and actually trying to distinguish between the discomfort of nociception and the distress of the. Running a body budgeting deficit is really, really, really hard. And when people continue with opioids beyond the point where maybe the tissue damage is now gone and the body's healed itself, people continue to take opioids sometimes to avoid the distress.

I could see that.

Yeah. And then they become addicted and then it's a sort of a never ending cycle because, you know, they. The brain adjusts its own internal medicine cabinet. It reduces its own production of endogenous opioids. And so then the person becomes dependent on those opioids. In fact, if you take a medication every day at the same time, Tylenol, ibuprofen, coffee, you take it every day at the same time, your brain starts to anticipate the effect and it will adjust itself in advance in expectation of that incoming drug. So I used to drink coffee. I was a great. I loved coffee almost as much as chocolate. Not quite. But every morning I would have a beautiful cup of very dark coffee at about the same time. And if I ever missed a coffee, I would get a massive headache. And why did that happen? Because coffee has chemicals in it that constrict the blood vessels in your brain. And in anticipation of that, my brain, a few minutes before, would dilate the blood vessels, expecting the coffee which would constrict it. And so keep everything kind of constant. And if you don't have that drink, if I didn't have that drink, then they would dilate and I'd have this like massive, massive headache. And in fact, this is. This happens when people take any medication at all. So addiction is not. It doesn't usually happen because somebody is weak. You know, they're not like, they're, you know, it's not that idea of, you know, you've got this inner beast craving, you know, pleasure, and. And you just, you just. Your rationality hasn't controlled you properly. It's usually automaticity. Usually what's happening is that the external ingestion of the drug has become part of the brain's prediction. It's becomes the brain expects it and. And then can't function normally without it.

I've often said that everybody is an addict. Some are addicted to constructive, positive things and some are addictive to destructive, disempowering things. But we're all addicts of one kind or another.

And so, you know, we also depend on each other. You know, you don't manage your body budget on your own. You're a social animal. And you know, we are constantly, metaphorically, you know, making deposits and withdrawals into each other's body budgets. And you know, when you lose someone who you love, who's close to you, and you feel like you're suffering and you feel like you've lost a part of yourself, it's because you have. You lost someone who was helping to tend your nervous system, and now that person's not there anymore and you physically feel that loss as an imbalance in your nervous system.

I would love to go more in detail about your book, but for everybody who's still watching, pick up two copies, one for yourself and one to give away as I have. My children are reading it, my wife is reading it next. I won't give her my copy, so I'm ordering another one for her. So pick up two copies and give one away. Read it and study it. There's a section in here all about our social brain that we're not going to have time to go into. But I would like to give you the last word on any other key distinctions for people to be able to use this. I prefer to call the brain an organism versus an organ that's evolving, growing, pruning, creating new neural connections and creating Even new cells, which we never thought, I shouldn't say never, for many years we didn't think was happening with neurogenesis. Any final words? I could go on for hours with you and I know you've got other things to do. Any final words on Seven and a Half Lessons about the brain?

Well, I wrote the book as a series of very short essays that would maybe entertain people a little bit and maybe teach them a couple of nuggets of neuroscience so they could go to a dinner party and wow their friends and family with a little bit of a couple of nuggets of science. But every essay, as you know, ends with what these nuggets of neuroscience mean for human nature and really invites you to think about the kind of human you are or want to be in this world. I guess what I would say is that the more we learn about the way the brain works, the more we realize that we have more control and therefore more responsibility. Whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not, it doesn't really matter. We have more control. We also have more responsibility for who we are and the impact that we have on other people in a very real biological way. And you can find that empowering or you can find that burdensome. And I think all of us find it probably a little bit of both. But hopefully after reading the book you'll the scale will be a little more weighted to inspiring and empowering. I love it.

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed, like I said, third time reading it now. I've given it away to many, many people. I've already been promoting it within my own community. So you're going to get a huge following from there. And thank you for doing the research. Thank you for having the passion for social psychology and neuroscience and cognitive psychology. Thanks for putting your ideas and thoughts in writing so people like me can read it, learn and grow. I have often said, you know, our creator, whatever you believe that to be. Everyone gave us this at least $100 billion brain and we're finally getting more of the user's manual so we could be healthier, happier. We can love and care about each other even more, take care of ourselves and and be wealthy in every sense of the word.

Word.

Not just financial wealth, that's just a totally different game. But in every sense of the world. I think we're all here to lift each other up as we climb and to create a masterpiece with your life and to at the end of every day, sign what you've created because we are co creating. So Lisa Feldman Barrett, thank you so much, everybody. As I mentioned, two copies, not one of the book. Give one away, read one, study it. And I want you to share with me what you have discovered and more importantly, what are you going to apply because it is the application of information that is going to help you transition, transform, and make your life into the masterpiece that I know you want it to be. So thank you again, Lisa and everyone. Pick up the buck and let me know what you think about it in one of our chats and forums. Have an awesome day everyone, and thank you Lisa.

Thank you.

Hey, this is John and if you like that video, watch the next video because it is packed with things that you can do right now to achieve success way faster than ever before.