012 - Sudden Cardiac Death in Pro Athletes: Why NFL Legends Are Dying in Their 40s & 50s

Jimmy Wilkerson, former defensive end who played for the Chiefs, Buccaneers, and Saints, died of a heart attack at the age of 43. David Patton, a former NFL wide receiver who won 3 Super Bowls with the New England Patriots, died at age 47. Now, while the immediate cause of death was a motorcycle accident, it was later revealed he suffered a major heart attack just before the crash. Hi, welcome to Prevention is Power podcast, where we explore the cutting edge of heart health. Longevity, and personal empowerment. Brought to you by Clear Cardio. I'm your host, J.D. Enright, CEO and co-founder of Clear Cardio, and I'm honored to bring you real conversations with extraordinary people who are changing the way we think about cardiovascular health. Today's episode is one for the books. Joining us is none other than Jerome Bettis, NFL Hall of Famer and legendary running back. Jerome carved out a remarkable career in the league, Known for his unstoppable power, resilience, and leadership both on and off the field. With over a decade in the NFL, multiple Pro Bowl appearances, and a Super Bowl ring, he's an icon not just in football but in life. He's also one of Clear Cardio's newest patients. Alongside him, we have Clear Cardio's Chief Medical Officer, Dr. John Osborne. Dr. Osborne is a nationally recognized Harvard-trained preventive cardiologist and heart health advocate. Dr. Osborne is a powerhouse in the world of preventive medicine with decades of real-world clinical experience and a passion for empowering people to take control of their heart health before crisis strikes. His work bridges the gaps between research, innovation, and everyday action. Together, Jerome and Dr. Osborne bring powerful insights, one from the field, the other from the front lines of medicine. into how prevention, awareness, and early action can change the game. So whether you're an athlete, a healthcare professional, or just someone who wants to live stronger and longer, this episode is for you. All right, so let's get into it. Hey guys, how you doing today?

Great, thanks for having me.

Fantastic. Yeah, Dr. Osborne, good to see you again. Mr. Bennis, AKA the Bus, in the house.

Yes, thanks for having me, man. Oh, I'm doing great now. Having come out and spent some time with you guys, just very fortunate and thankful to have had the opportunity.

Yeah, thank you. You flew in from where?

Atlanta. Home is Atlanta. So coming out to sunny Dallas has been a pretty unique experience.

Yeah, you got some golf in while you're out here?

I did. I got a chance to— a little golf in. It was a golf tournament up in Frisco. Got a chance to perform in that. Over at the Omni, right? Yeah, over at the Omni. Fantastic place, by the way. Outstanding. But the biggest really point for me was to get over to Clear Cardio to see you guys because I wanted to make sure from a cardiovascular standpoint everything was in tip-top shape. So the trip was a golf trip, but more importantly, a safety trip.

Yeah, well, I'm so— I know on behalf of all of us here at Clear Cardio, You know, Dr. Osborne and myself, we're so pleased to have you here. We got a chance to meet your lovely wife who came up.

Yes.

It was wonderful to meet her. She's— what a wonderful woman. And, you know, how we met is we met in New Orleans at the Super Bowl.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we were there for an event, and I was lucky enough to meet you. And then I'm so pleased that you came out. You had expressed some concerns. Why don't you share those concerns with our listeners, the people that are watching us from home? You know, why you were so concerned.

Well, for me it was, um, you know, it's something that's been very important to me in terms of heart health. Uh, and I've been talking about education, information, understanding it. Right. And so I'm, I'm telling people all over the country about heart, heart health. And I wanted to make sure that my heart, uh, was as healthy as it could possibly be. Right. So yeah, I'm talking to people about it. I need to make sure, that my health, my heart health is a priority because in my history there's been an issue with heart health. My father passed away from a heart attack. How old was he? He was 61 years old.

So young, guys.

Very young.

Yeah.

Right after we won the Super Bowl, my hometown, and less than a year later he was gone. And so traumatic experience, obviously you understand it and you never want someone else to have to experience, you know, that as well. And then I have a close, a close call scare with my mother. She had a quintuple bypass surgery. And so with that being said, on both sides of my family, the concern is there. So I wanted to make sure that I was doing the necessary things, uh, to make sure that my heart, uh, was as healthy as it could possibly be.

Yeah, no, that's— listen, you're the, you know, you're becoming more and more, you know, the standard, but For many, many years up until recently, that's— you're the exception to the rule. Like, most men in particular, you know, more— we find more women are worried well. They, you know, they're more concerned about, like, becoming sick, whereas guys, we wait till, you know, like, yeah, someone who asked me, like, I cut off my arm, put a tourniquet on, I'm going to play golf. Right, just but a scratch. Right, right, just but a scratch. I like the way you said it. Um, yeah, so we just kind of We just push through it, right? And so you're that.

Yeah.

So, you know, Dr. Osborne, you know, when you hear what he said about his genetics, right? You often talk about genetics.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

The role it plays in cardiovascular disease. What are your thoughts there?

Yeah, so I love genetics, cardiovascular genetics. I actually did my postdoc at Harvard Medical School in the Department of Genetics. So I got infected early on with this. And so it's really fascinating to know And what's the DNA? What are the ancestry that leads us up to this? Because heart disease is, there's a lot of factors that cause it. You can smoke yourself to death and all of those things, but there's an unquestionably very powerful effect of genetics on this disease.

Yeah.

And by the way, and I'll share something with you that you probably don't know, and most even providers don't know, Genetically, right, you were concerned because mom and dad both had heart disease. Dad passed away from it with sudden cardiac death, which is about half— about half of the time how people show up with heart disease. Their first symptom is they die. So that's unfortunately very typical.

Yeah.

Mom was more fortunate inasmuch as they caught it and she had to undergo quintuple bypass surgery, which is no fun. But, you know, The plaque that started that had been there literally for decades had we had the tools to detect it early. That's what we do at Clear Cardio.

So you're saying she could have prevented both— your father and mother could have been prevented from either dying or having that surgery.

The other thing about genetics, obviously you understand, of course, your concern, mom and dad both having it, both at early ages. But I will tell you an interesting fact about genetics that is not well known. If you look at the role of genetics, right, we're half like mom, half like dad. However, our siblings are more like us genetically than anyone else in the world. So if one has a sibling, a brother or sister with heart disease, and that includes balloons, stents, bypass surgery, heart attacks, strokes, any of those manifestations of plaque, that is an even greater risk factor. for heart disease than mom or dad having it, or even both mom and dad.

Got it.

Right? So whenever I see somebody who has heart disease, whether hopefully we picked up early with CleerCardio, or unfortunately they picked up the old way where they had stents or balloons or surgery or heart attacks, right? I'll always ask about, obviously, family history, very, very critical. But also I tell them, for your siblings, Right? You're the sibling who now has it, right? In that case, you know, if you like your siblings, if you love your siblings, if you don't want bad things to happen to them, make sure that they get scoped out. You know, they get, you know, we basically do what, you know, clear cardio on them too. Because with the way heart disease works is you're fine until you no longer are, right?

Right.

You're fine last week, Normal stress test, EKGs look great, pat you on the back, heart of an 18-year-old. Next week you have a heart attack, right? So the fact you don't have symptoms and feel fine means nothing, right? We gotta look under the hood, and that's what we do at Clear Cardio, right? And that's what we did with you. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

So maybe tell us about your experience today.

Well, uh, obviously the experience was, you know, you don't know what to expect, um, but it was a, it was a very Easy, simple experience. First class, came in, the nurses, they were so, they were so great, careful, meticulous in terms of the detail, getting a needle in me, drawing some blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Drawing a little bit of blood, then being able to put an IV in. Great job, no pain. Then went into the big CT scan, the big donut.

The donut of destiny.

Big donut. In fact, and that was—

By the way, there you are.

Oh yeah, yeah.

So our donut, which by the way has the biggest— we call it the bore, the hole— that particular machine, the first installed, this machine in North America has the biggest hole Of any CT machine. Yeah, so very comfortable, no problem. It literally can fit the bus.

So what do you call that again, Dr. Osborne? The donut of—

the donut of destiny.

The donut of destiny.

I love that.

We gotta put that on there, the donut of destiny, right?

Yes, yes.

You know, we don't need a crystal ball, we need the donut of destiny.

So what were you thinking there, Jerome, when you're lying down? Was it comfortable?

It was comfortable, real easy.

Because you're a big guy. You're a big guy, but you had no problem.

Yeah, it was no problem.

Yeah.

Initially you're concerned like, oh, is it gonna be a tight fit? Not a tight fit at all. There's no concern. And for me it was real easy. I just kind of got in it and—

I thought you were gonna fall asleep there for a minute.

I was very relaxed. I wasn't nervous at all, uncomfortable or anything. So just slid in, got into it. And I'll tell you, I thought because I'm used to MRIs and that, 45 minutes, It was less than 10 minutes.

Yeah.

Maybe 15 tops.

Yeah.

More, it was more the prep than actually going in. Once I slid in, it was maybe 2 to 3 minutes and it was, you know, hey, hold your breath. This, that.

No noise.

No noise.

Quiet.

It was a couple of directions of hold your breath, maybe 3 times. And that was it. I was done.

Yeah.

So I was very, very, Impressed at the process.

And we now know very simple that our donut of destiny can take a bus.

That's right.

Or the bus.

That's right. The bus.

Yeah.

Not just any bus.

The bus. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it was great. It was great to have you in there. And I know, quite honestly, there was a lot of chatter going around that Jerome Bettis was in the house and the young ladies and some of the young men in there were like, oh my God, I love the Steelers. You brought back a lot of memories.

Can I tell you a funny story? So we had dinner last night.

Yes. Right.

Yes. Uh, yep. Everybody, the whole team and, and you and your lovely wife and all that. So when we finished up, right, uh, Michael came out with me and then one of the waitstaff, right? Yes. A, a young brunette.

Yeah.

Lady. And she said to me, and only cuz it must have been you, right? She said to me, can I get a picture with you?

Yeah.

Cuz I mean, you're the famous guy.

Yeah.

So she must have thought, well, I must be famous too.

You must be famous too.

Well, you are. You are.

You are.

You are, Doc.

Thank you.

You are. Yeah, that was the first ever.

So you're the other Dr. Oz.

Well, yeah, here's the thing. They need to know that you are truly a lifesaver.

Oh yeah.

So that's, that's— I would take a picture with you any day.

Yeah.

Because you're, you're the true hero. You're saving lives.

Yeah, but I can't do it alone. No, right? No. Thank you for helping me eliminate heart disease, right?

Yeah, that's—

we're only going to eliminate it when we begin to look underneath That's right. And see what's going on and see where we stand.

Yeah.

Now, by the way, so we looked at the raw data, the images coming out of the CT this morning. So we looked at all that stuff.

Yeah.

We did his virtual autopsy and all that stuff. What he has not seen, and we're gonna unveil right now while he's here—

Drum roll, please.

Is the AI of what we did this morning. Okay. Yeah. So we're gonna take it to a whole nother level here and review with you the AI data.

Okay, I wanna see it.

Now, he already knows, we looked at the data, we didn't see any blockages or narrowings or whatever, And I will be very humble. Up until we had AI, that's as far as we could go, right? I could see if there's blockages, I could see if there's plaque, couldn't measure it, couldn't quantify it. There would be plaque I couldn't see 'cause our eyes can't see some of the plaque as we'll show here on the AI. But that was really good. I mean, far better than any other tool. Now in the last few years having AI, very humbling 'cause it's gonna see stuff that I cannot see.

Yeah.

So that's what we're gonna investigate here in a moment.

Yeah.

Okay.

Drum roll, please. I'm excited for that. Yeah.

But we already know. Heart's in good shape, no blockages, narrowings. We don't need stents or balloons or surgery. So we're not putting you too much—

No, no, we're getting very, very specific.

But now we're looking at it into the microscope, right? We went from the telescope.

Which is what we need to do because I believe people have to understand with your heart, it's never too far to go into the weeds. You want to get into the details because That's where you need to be able to make the necessary changes for whatever you're about to deal with. So I'm comfortable with whatever the AI tells me, but the important part is to know.

Yeah, absolutely. So that's really important for our viewers and listeners out there. That's the key. You might be nervous about it. I was. I know you probably were a little bit. You've got to overcome that and be curious. You've got to be curious. You've got to force the conversation and be willing to know what you don't know, even if what you learn you don't like, because then at least we can address that, right?

That's right.

Because you don't know until you know, right?

Until you know.

This is the only way to really know. And so, you came in all the way from Atlanta. We got you in. The experience was with Dr. Osborne and our staff.

Come for the golf, stay for the life-saving.

That's exactly, um, you know, you, you went, you went through the process here. You can see on the screen, um, you found the process to be easy, right? It wasn't painful.

It was—

you were in and out, um, and, and you were able to get immediately after that, you sat down with Dr. Osborne, um, and those of you who do end up coming in will, will have the same experience. Um, you got a chance in our VIP lab, uh, uh, I'm sorry, uh, uh, clinic. And you got to see firsthand, you saw your own heart, you saw all your arteries, you and Dr. Osborne and his vast experience and knowledge, you know, explained to you what you were looking at. How was that experience when you were looking at your own physiology?

It was, it was, uh, groundbreaking for me because obviously you've never seen your heart. You think you know what the heart looks like, but you have no idea.

What color is it?

Right. And to be able to see—

It doesn't look like Valentine's Day.

And to see, right, no, it doesn't. And to see the arteries, right? To see it, it's a different understanding.

3-dimensional, yeah.

3-dimensional. But, you know, it's one thing for someone to tell you, yeah, you've got plaque or you've got this. It's another for someone to show you. And I think that is the eye-opening moment moment when you see it and you say, wow, okay, this is real.

Yeah.

Now whatever comes of it, I do understand. And now I need to take the initiative to make sure that I rectify the situation because I'm looking at my heart.

Yeah.

Right here on screen.

It's not lying to you.

Right. And, and that gives you the reality check that, hey, I need to, to make better decisions. Yeah. Uh, And I've got to change the physiology because it's right here looking at me.

Well, and I'm going to ask you, Jerome, I think I know the answer already, but obviously you're professional in the NFL. I'm sure you had other cardiovascular evaluations and echocardiograms and ultrasounds and stress tests, and they were all great, right?

Well, as far as you know, the doctor tells you you're good, and that's all you have to go on is they tell you you're good, or you see a couple squiggly lines And you have no clue what any of that means. And you go, okay. You're like, okay.

So I'm gonna suspect you probably never had this kind of—

No, nothing.

Of a guided tour through your heart.

No, nothing in depth and nothing that is clearly showing you where you are in relationship to your heart health.

Right, your heart health, not a risk factor that may affect a lot of different people. Right.

You specific. Specific to me.

And that's what Dr. Osborne's so amazing about, and that's what's so amazing about Clear Cardio. So, so we went through that process. We didn't see anything major.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so we— I called the raw data, the data came right out of the CT. We look at that right afterwards and we could see if there had been blockages or narrowings or heart attacks or heart valve problems or, or anything else we could see on your virtual autopsy, which is how I like to call it. And all that looked, looked great. We looked at your lungs, your esophagus, your aorta, your stomach, your liver, your spleen. All those other things and everything checked out. That was all great.

The free stuff, you call it.

I call it the free stuff. So it's not just the heart. It's not just the blood vessels, the coronary arteries, but we get everything else inside your chest. We're going to look— we're going to extract every little bit of data from that because it's all there.

Bone density was interesting.

We looked at your bone density. We looked at your spine. Had a little arthritis there.

Saw some broken ribs. Not surprised. For those of you out there, yes, he's had his ribs broken a few times.

That's right.

But they've healed. It looks good.

Right. So, you know, it's a binary test, right? It's there. It's not there. You know, we'll see it all.

We looked at the liver. We saw if there was any fatty liver.

Yep. And also, too, you know, I always tell people, just don't eat breakfast in the morning. I want you to hydrate, drink and all that. No alcohol, no caffeine.

But—

Until after.

Hydrate till afterwards. Right after that. Yeah. Mimosas. The bar's open.

Yeah.

But I could look in your stomach and say and see, yes, you followed instructions. So thank you, Jerome. No problem, no problem.

Well, Doc, I want to know, I want to know what does the AI—

So are we looking at this there?

Okay, so tell you what, we're going to go on to the next slide.

Okay.

Okay, so what we're doing here for everybody that can see this is we've taken the vessels, we've straightened them out, and we're running them, start of the vessel on the left, the end of the vessel on the right. We've straightened that vessel out, and what you can see kind of about A third of the way. You see those markers?

Yeah.

Exactly, thank you. You've got longer arms and fingers than I have. You can see a little bit of plaque there, okay? I'll call it baby plaque. It's in the wall of the vessel, right? There's nothing causing any significant blockages. And then the numbers underneath show the total amount of plaque. So in that vessel, 4.7 cubic millimeters, which basically would be about the same as 4 periods at the end of a sentence, okay? That's in the donut, not in the donut hole. You can see it almost looks like it's stuck on there.

In the arterial wall itself.

In the arterial wall, in the donut, I call it, right? Not the donut hole. So stress tests, you only pick up blockages more than 70%. That's a blockage in the vessel itself, in the hole, right? This is in the wall. There is no narrowing on a heart cath or angiogram. the old-fashioned invasive way that we used to look at this, that I gave up 20 years ago because this was so much better, cheaper, easier, faster, etc. This is not detectable. So you could have a heart cath done and it'd be called completely normal. Okay. Which it is.

Got it.

Because I can only see the donut hole. I can't see the donut. Here we can see everything. And then we can measure the different kinds of plaque. There's reds, yellows, and blues. This particular plaque is yellow. It is the lipid plaque, the lava, as I call it. Very, very small amount.

And they call it soft plaque too, don't they?

Soft plaque, cholesterol-rich plaque. But also, I think you have to appreciate that, you know, you're 53. Okay. This is in this particular vessel. That is the net amount of plaque that you have formed over the last 53 years. Okay. Gotcha. So I can't say zero. Right. But it's pretty darn small.

Right.

Okay. No calcified plaque. That's the blue there. So no calcified plaque. And then these are a couple smaller vessels. They're all zeros across the board. And then the next one. So this is the left main LAD. We talked about the left main. We call it the widowmaker, right? Which I don't like the term because if you have this in a woman, it'd technically be a widower maker. But nonetheless.

Of course.

Of course.

So here you can see a little bit of that soft plaque there, 22.6. You can see all of that is the lipid lava-rich plaque or the soft plaque.

That's the dangerous stuff.

The cholesterol plaque. It's in the wall of vessel on a heart cath angiogram. Any other tool except autopsy or this tool, you wouldn't see it. We can quantify it there. So again, a little bit, but again, not zero, but I'm going to say for our purposes, rounds to zero. Okay? For your purposes. another smaller branch, and then in this branch you can see, and I showed it to you today, there's a little bit of calcified plaque there. That's the little blue bit. That's the 1.4 cubic millimeters there.

Yep.

And then some lava, the yellow stuff as well. But again, no narrowings or blockages, 'cause we're looking at your heart and the blood vessels with really a microscope, okay? So this is an enormously sensitive tool. And I told you today when we looked, this morning at this, I could show you that little calcified plaque. That's easy to see. It's white, really easy to see. All the yellow stuff I'm showing you here, I couldn't see by eye.

Yes, sir.

Before we had AI, I'm showing you stuff that we could not even see, right? That's where the AI comes into play. Not just visualizing things that I can't see with my eye, but also being able to quantify it very, very accurately here.

Got it.

And then the next one, the last of the blood vessels, This is called the left circumflex, going left side of the heart. Again, little tiny bit of that yellow plaque there, 4.6 cubic millimeters, couple branches, and that's it. So if we go to the summary, which I think is the—

First slide.

First slide, there we go. So here's the summary. So there's the 3 vessels, the right, left main LED, left circumflex as we call it. You can see the total amount of plaque in each vessel. We sum that up to 44.4. Okay, and, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna harp on poor JD here. So his score, right? And you guys about the same age, right?

Yeah, I'm 57.

Yeah, 50.

Okay, right there.

A little bit older.

So he's better looking.

He had 217 cubic millimeters. Okay, don't gloat too much. You have 44. Got it. Okay, uh, you win. A tiny, tiny little bit is calcified. Most of it is the yellow Lava, plaque. And then down here is all the different vessels. So this would show if there's any narrowings or whatever. You can see there's nothing of any significance there. So really, really great news for you. I'm delighted to share this with you.

Yes.

I think very, very reassuring. So despite mom and dad, right, we've really kept this under control. I think going forward, we talked earlier, you said you're on some cholesterol medicines. Yahoo! What we'll do is we'll get together Review all those labs, make sure you're on the right drugs at the right doses. Cholesterol is beyond stopping plaque, but we can reverse it. So it depends upon the numbers. So we'll look at that, review all that offline a little bit further down the road to make sure that we're going to not just stop the plaque, but yes, we can reverse it. So we'll do that, make sure all the numbers are perfect. And then, as I like to say, rinse, lather, repeat.

That's right.

What I would do, you know, since we have a little bit of plaque here, I would say probably bring you back in about 3 years, because this is a very slow glacial process, right? You don't go from 44 to 217, like poor JD, over a period of months to even a few years, right? So we'll bring you back in 3 years. It's a process. We'll put you back in the machine, and then we can say we know exactly how much plaque we have as of the 25th of March, which is today, by the way, for the record. And then down the road, 3 years from now, we'll put you back in the machine and see, is it better or do you have even less? That's my goal, right?

So this is considered what, stage 1?

This is stage 1.

Stage 1.

We put people in stages. If you're 1 to 250, that's stage 1. 250 to 750, which is a lot of plaque, is 2. That's moderate. Stage 3 is above 750. That's severe.

And we see quite a few of them.

Yeah. So it's interesting. So initially we thought we'd see maybe 5% of people or so would be stage 3. As it turns out, it's a third are stage 3. So there's a lot of disease, a lot of plaque out there. And all these people have no symptoms, no chest pain. Many of them had stress tests, EKGs, all the usual, you know, typical workups that we used to do. But we don't suffer anymore. Instead, we use this, look under the hood, everything is clear.

Well, I am, I'm elated to, to see that the numbers— obviously there is always concern because you say to yourself, you know, what, what am I looking at? What am I dealing with? Um, you know, you, you go through the process And you expect the results, but obviously with my family history, I was assuming the results would be a little bit more significantly bad.

Right.

From that perspective, and to see that the numbers are coming back is very reassuring. Yeah.

You're in very good cardiovascular health.

Very reassuring. Yeah, you're in great, great shape. And I'm gonna admit to you, as I said, before, this tool for me as a cardiologist, having done, worked in cardiology almost 30 years, is very humbling, right? Because I go, oh, mom, dad, right? You got it from both sides. I'd go, well, if I were to bet, I'd bet there'd be probably a lot to show you.

Yeah, right. Absolutely.

And there wasn't. And that's awesome.

Which is the proof.

So, you don't know until you know.

Yeah, which is the proof because the mirror lies to you. It doesn't tell you what's going on inside. I've seen— yesterday at dinner when we were having a conversation and Dr. Osborne was talking about, we've seen world-class athletes who look like Adonises. You just look at them and go, wow, I wish I was that person. That kind of figure, that physique, men and women alike, who have significant heart disease, significant risk of heart attacks and strokes, and we're treating them really aggressively. And then you've got other people who, you know, you'd think, wow, these people have, they've got heart disease. There's plaque in there. And then we find, well, they have very little, if any. So you don't know until you know.

Right.

Right. And in either case, none of them have symptoms. Yeah.

Right.

So all of these risk factors— and we're going to be doing a podcast coming up soon where we're talking about risk factors and the myths around, you know, some of the modern— what they call modern tools that they use to identify risks. Right. They don't actually identify—

Be very careful when they talk about risk factors. Right. These are factors that, yes, can contribute to plaque. However, that doesn't mean anything in you. Right. Those are risk factors. I appreciate that. However, we really need to understand, do you have plaque? Do you have the disease? Right? The only way you know that is we put you in the donut of destiny and we do AI on top of that.

Yeah.

That's the only way.

So for me, I think everyone needs to understand that the risk factors are what we get when we go to the doctor. They ask you about your family history and you tell them and they say, oh man, okay. Okay, well, we need to be careful of this, this, this, and that. That is a 30,000-foot look at you, uh, and really it's not, it's not beneficial. What I've come to find out is you need a very specific look, not a 30,000-foot view. You want a 1-foot view right here.

Tell us more.

Looking at you through the donut of destiny. And I need to know because what happens is it, it reassures you or, or tells you the reality of it. And either way, right, good or bad, but you have the, you have the ability now to do something about it.

I love that.

And I think that's the, that's the important part because I was living my life saying, you know, I lost my father. He was 61. Maybe, maybe I only have a few more years because, you know, because of him, my factors may be higher. I may not live that much. So you have that fear of the unknown when you can find out. And I think that's the important part. What people don't know is you can find out. You can.

It's here. The technology is here.

The technology is available. And I think that's the one part I didn't know until we— if we had not have met at the Super Bowl in New Orleans.

I believe it was serendipitous.

It was, it was meant to happen.

Maybe this is your second ring.

Right.

Yes, this is the Super Bowl life.

Yeah.

Yeah. And this, and this, it's one of those moments where it's like the relief.

Yeah.

And that's what, and I think that's what every person, not just player, every person wants to know where they stand because the heart is so delicate, right? And it's so final. It's the finality. Most heart attacks, Gone, right? And so the last thing you want is to, is to have an event, right? You want to know if you're at risk or not at risk for an event. And I think even this is what's important.

Have the disease, don't have the disease.

That's right.

Black and white.

That's right.

Zeros, ones.

That's right.

No equivocation. No could be, maybe, possibly.

Right.

It's here.

It's, it's here or it's not here. And you know now Going forward, what the plan is.

That's right. And if you have it, and if you do have it, okay.

No problem.

We can— guess what? We can treat that. Dr. Osborne, through— in the Clear Cardio team, working with Dr. Osborne, they know how to reverse that. They know how to cure your heart disease. They know how to turn that dangerous plaque into calcified non-lava plaque, right?

Right. So sometimes— this is a powerful analogy, so everybody sit down. This is a powerful analogy. Sometimes I'll, I'll describe it to patients. Maybe they aren't quite getting it. And I'll say, okay, let me put this a different way. You have cancer of the coronaries.

Mm-hmm.

I am going to give you chemotherapy. We call it statins, aspirin, control your blood pressure, help you with your weight, treat your diabetes. Right. Technically, those are chemicals. That's chemotherapy. Right. Of course, when people hear chemotherapy, they're going, oh my God. Right? That's bad.

Right.

Well, technically, this is cancer of the coronaries. We have highly effective and really, really well-tolerated tools to stop it and reverse it. The problem is that historically we wait till the machine breaks. You need bypass surgery, stents, if you're lucky, have a heart attack. Frankly, if you're lucky, the unlucky half of the population, their first symptom, like your dad, 61, just dies, right? There's no second chances. There's no other opportunities. So that is the miracle of what we can do now. And as I tell everybody, there are very, very few preventative cardiologists, right? I am the 1%, I like to say. Not that 1%, unfortunately, but—

I call him the Yeti.

I'm the 1%. Yeah, I'm the Sasquatch, the Yeti, or the unicorn. And I cannot do this alone. So, Jerome, I want to thank you from my heart. Pun sort of intended. Because I can't do it alone. So thank you for helping me eliminate heart disease. Right. I can't do it alone. I think we have unbelievably fantastic technology for early detection. We have incredible tools to treat if we do find it again. I'm always rooting for the fact we don't, in which case I can just absolutely reassure you. But either way, whatever it is, it's fine. Because we can take care of it and manage it. It's perfectly fine.

But if you don't, then it won't.

Right.

And you feel fine with heart disease until you don't.

Until you don't. And I think that's what people need to understand. If I go back and if I'm able to offer this technology to my father, is he going to say yes? Absolutely. 100%. Then we're going to have more time with him because we knew, we know we were able to do something about it. But not knowing, not being able to do anything about it, um, you know, you're left with the roll of the dice or the flip of the coin. And that's not how you want your heart health to be decided, right?

Exactly.

You want to know what you're dealing with so you can deal with it head on, uh, and very clearly and plainly. And the one thing that you guys said that really gave me a lot of comfort was that regardless of what you find, we can deal with it, right? And so then my next question was, well, what does that look like? And it's basically explaining that whatever medicines that are needed to now create a preventable scenario, that's where you're able to do that. You're able to solve—

Mm-hmm.

the problem, which I was a bit concerned. Like, well, what, what happens if we do find, you know, this massive issue? Am I going on a long vacation? What am I looking at, right? And then, and what you said is it's managed because it happens in years, but it can be managed in days and weeks, which was something that was very Impactful. Yeah. Impactful for me because I was worried, like, well, if we do find something, yeah, I gotta wait years for it to, you know, be solved.

Sweating it out every day.

Right, right. So now I'm panicking, right? I don't want to lift anything heavy. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. But to know that the, the, the fix is, is in days and weeks is very— it's that significant, right?

Yeah.

So we literally can take those yellow plaques the vulnerable plaques, as we call them, that are prone to rupture. And literally, with the right tools, right, diet, exercise, medications, whatever, we can literally convert those to stable plaques that do not rupture within days to weeks. So we don't have to wait years.

Right.

Right. Within days to weeks. So that's why I love doing what I do, right? Because, yeah, it's the ultimate, you know, promise to people that no matter what we find, right, I'm going to hope it's all perfect and there's nothing there. But unfortunately, that's not what the statistics point to. Right?

Right.

44% of us die of plaque, strokes and heart attacks. Over 75% of us will manifest some point a heart attack, stents, balloons, bypass surgeries. Right. And if you use AI and take people who have no symptoms, I feel fine. Use a cardiac CT like we did with you. Use AI. The most sensitive way of detecting tool— detecting plaque, 92% of middle-aged people have plaque.

Wow.

So you could be the 8%, but are you gonna roll the dice?

And that's right, right? That's it. And this is, this is stopping everyone from rolling the dice. And I think that's the important part for people to understand, that the technology is available.

Right.

Why would you not?

Why would you not? I don't gamble. And I don't gamble with my patients.

Yeah. And that's when we met. I told, uh, John, I said, listen, I need to get out to see you.

Yeah.

Because I, I, I don't want, uh, to be this person who's, who's yelling heart health from the mountaintop, but I'm not—

Right.

You don't know.

Conscious about my heart health.

You've worked for the CDC.

Right.

You've been educating people about Heart health and all that stuff. Pretty embarrassing. And you kind of lose a little credibility if you keel over from a heart attack.

Right, right. Absolutely right.

Not, as I like to say, not on my watch. Let me give you some more good news that you may not have thought about. Okay. But I'm always thinking about the genetics. We talk about mom and dad, right? That sort of teed us up for worries. We now know, you know, you got a little bit of plaque easily managed. You know, this is the net of 53 years, right? So not only is this great for you, it's great for your kids. Right.

Right?

And vice versa though, right? Right, Dr. Osborne? If you did have substantial amount of plaque disease, then you know it, and then you can look at your children with an educated voice, through educated lens, using an educated voice, and be proactive, right? And save your children's lives.

That's right.

Before it becomes a statistic.

Right.

Right? So, so with that said, this has been wonderful. We— I'm so grateful for you to come out here and bring your lovely wife and, and spend time with us. And for you— and it makes me feel great, and I know John and I were talking about this earlier, you know, to see people like yourself, Jerome, come in not knowing, concerned, worried, things like that, the genetic background, all those things. But to walk away with knowledge, whether it's good or bad knowledge, but knowledge knowing that one, they don't have the disease, or if they do have the disease, it's so minor, we're gonna see you in 3, 4 years, right? That burden, that you are unburdened with that, right?

Right.

And so you can walk away going, ah, and that cortisol and that stress that you're worrying about, and your wife and your children who are constantly worried. I mean, I remember having a conversation with her yesterday. And this morning, in fact, at the clinic, and she goes, I was just so worried about that. You know, when he was playing football, I was worried he's gonna get injured, concussions, you know, you never know, right?

That's right.

And then he retires and we're living our best lives, we're empty nesters, and all this wonder, we're gonna spend time together, and then I'm worried about he's gonna have a heart attack or stroke, right? Now she has no wonder. I saw the look on her face. It was a wonderful thing. And for us, that gives us purpose. And because we see how wonderful that is.

Yeah.

And so it's not just for you, it's also for the people that love you and care about you.

Yeah.

So if we could say, we just do a quick round robin for that, further for our listeners and those watching this podcast. What would you tell them about what you went through and what would you recommend to them?

I would tell anyone that's listening that, you know, Clear Cardio Gives you a clear understanding of your heart health. And I think so many times we have an idea of what we are dealing with, but we don't know for certain. And I believe your heart is something you want to deal with certainty. You don't want to guess with your heart. And, and Clear Cardio gives you an opportunity to be certain. about your heart health, and that is so valuable to each and every one of us. I, I can tell you that having lost my father from a heart attack, uh, you don't want an event. You want to know ahead of time, and Cleer Cardio gives you that opportunity.

Well, thank you for that. And Dr. Osborne, any final words you'd like to say?

I mean, you, you, you said it. Um, and again, uh, I, I love doing what I do. I love helping other people. I love having the ability to have this technology that is just breathtaking. As you went through, I'm delighted to be able to walk people through all these pictures, these images, complex stuff, and then say, here's what we're going to plan, right? We're going to change your trajectory, right? We're going to make sure what happened in the past to your family does not happen to you. And with great, great certainty.

Yes.

Um, so thank you for making the trip all the way from Atlanta. Yeah.

Uh, it—

I, I'm gonna say it sounds like it was, it was good.

It was worth it.

It was worth it.

It was worth it.

Um, fantastic. And, uh, you know, you just— we don't have to worry about this anymore.

No.

Right?

No.

Um, so gotta look under the hood. We have the Donut of Destiny. And again, thank you and, and your wife for coming here and letting us, uh, just peek under the hood and know it's okay. You know, there's nothing you're gonna do to your heart as long as you follow my instructions. Uh, nothing's— you're not gonna hurt your heart in any way. It'll be fine. It can take anything you can throw at it.

Well, a special thank you to Clear Cardio for allowing me and my wife to come in, uh, and utilize your services. Uh, I am Truly grateful for the opportunity. Thank you.

And, and spread the word, right?

I will.

I cannot eliminate heart disease by myself. I rely upon everyone else.

Yeah.

So spread the word and help us eliminate heart disease.

For sure.

Or as I love to say, please put me as a cardiologist, or really my more interventional colleagues and cardiothoracic surgeons, let's please put them out of business. Please. Yeah.

So, we can do that. Well, thank you guys for joining us here for another Prevention is Power podcast with Clear Cardio, myself, J.D. Enright. And, joining us today was Mr. Jerome Benes, the Bus, and of course, the illustrious Dr. John Osborne. Until next time, if you liked what you saw, please like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We have lots of podcasts coming through with really eye-opening stuff. busting myths and so on. And then if you have any concerns at all, or you know somebody who might, family member or friend or colleague, give us a call, reach out to clearcardio.com, and we'll get you in here and look under the hood. Until next time.

So.

I'm clear.

I'm cardio.

It's good to see you. Cheers.