028 - Eric Rawlin's LIFE CHANGING Practice

What we here focus at Clear Cardio is cardiovascular disease, and we know what causes heart attacks and strokes is plaque rupture.

And a symptom is never really the problem.

It's a result of an underlying—

Absolutely.

Issue, yeah.

Yeah.

That's the key. There's a lot of full-body scans and blah, blah, blah. You know, some of them are good, some of them are just nonsense, and some of them are scams. We don't just say, okay, well, it is what it is, here's some meds, or maybe not. We actually treat that. You're saying now we can treat that. Hi, and welcome back to another edition of Prevention is Power podcast. I'm JD Enright, Chairman and CEO of Clear Cardio, who sponsors this. Normally you'll see Dr. Osborne. Dr. Osborne is traveling today and visiting patients. But today we have a very special guest. His name is Eric Rawlin, and he's the founder and CEO of Neuropathway Institute based in Utah. Welcome.

Thank you. It's good to be here, JD.

Appreciate it. Yeah, it's great to have you. You flew all the way in from Utah.

We did. Yeah.

So Eric is one of our newest patients. He came in to see us. And we have something very similar in common in that just like Clear Cardio, we have— we take a preventative approach, which is unique in the industry, you know, to disease in particular. Our focus here at Clear Cardio, as you know, is to prevent heart attacks and strokes. Obviously, you know, we want to, you know, if half the population is dying of a heart attack or stroke as their first symptom, the last thing we want to do is be interventional, you know, or reactive. So to prevent that from happening, half of the population from dying of heart attack or stroke, we have to be Yeah. prevention. And so that's what we focus on. Now, the industry doesn't necessarily like that a lot because, as you know, We can be a bit controversial because it affects the bottom line of a lot of these institutions. You know, they make a lot of money doing heart stents and balloons and bypasses and other types of reactive treatments, hence the term interventional versus, you know, you might as well say, reactional. And unfortunately, many people don't survive to get to even that point. So we here at Clear Cardio are focused on prevention and disease detection and treatment, like what you're doing at the Neuropathway Institute in Utah. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how that ties into what we're doing here at Clear Cardio in the prevention application?

Yeah, for sure. You know, I love in your opening statement, you talked about how, you know, really the number one symptom of a heart problem is death. Which is just crazy. That's your first symptom. And so, you know, then you get all these terms, it's called the silent killer and everything else. And so when I heard what you guys were doing, I was really intrigued because to me what you guys are doing is something completely different. It's a different approach as to preventative. It's like, let's figure out what's actually gonna cause the problem, and if you can take care of that, then you're not gonna have the problem anymore. And so I like that because that's really where I tried to take everything that we're doing because we wanted— So what are you doing? For sure, yeah. So basically, we figured out a way to rewire a brain in the sense that there's different things out there you can do, like a transcranial, where they'll put these electrodes on your brain to kind of stimulate parts of your brain to get them to work better. And they found that they work, but then what happens is you have to eventually go do it again because it starts to wear away, because our brains are electrical circuits, right? And so that's why it's going to respond that way.

Mm-hmm.

So you focus on neurological Conditions.

Right.

And so how would they be treated traditionally? Like in a, I guess, in a reactive way? 'Cause your focus is on, like our focus is on, preventional, treating the disease or identifying the disease first, what is the cause, and then treating that before it becomes too late, right? So what do they do now that you do differently?

So like, you can pick any condition, right, and then you just kinda walk through it. So neurological conditions like neuropathy. Right, somebody has neuropathy and let's just say it's in their foot and they can't feel their foot.

So what is neuropathy for those of us who don't know?

Okay, yeah, great question. So just by definition, right, neuro, nerve, and then -opathy is going to be inflammation. So you're basically saying you have inflammation of a nerve.

Okay, what does inflammation of a nerve do? Does it like make it numb, tingle, itch?

And it can do all that. Usually, especially if it's a burning, burning is almost always tied back into a nerve, but it can be any of those things. It can be where it's completely numb and you can't feel it, almost like when it's fallen asleep. You know, if you sat too long and you can't feel your foot and it's fallen asleep. So it can be So it could be that. And then as that comes back on, it can be those— you feel that little pins and needles going on. For some people, the neuropathy, that's how they feel it. For other people, it's like a throb, and then you can get like heat problems into there too because now you've got problems with the blood flow going into there. Other issues can also tie into being cold, you know, because maybe you're not getting the blood flow down there. So now you have cold extremities, always cold in your hands, always cold in your feet.

Older people, that happens a lot, doesn't it, to older people?

It does.

Okay, and even younger people for that matter. But okay, so one condition, neuropathy. Okay, so how is that currently treated?

So you can go to your doctor and they'll prescribe. You know, they typically, when you go to your medical doctor, they have pretty much 2 options for you. They're gonna refer you or they're gonna give you a medication, right? And so the medications—

So they're gonna put you on drugs?

Pretty much, right? Okay. Just to try to help to maybe bring it back. They may do some imaging, lab work to find out if it's something pathological. which is great to rule out, but then what happens a lot of times when they come back and they're like, well, we can't find anything, there's nothing pathological there, we don't know what to do, so now you're gonna be on that drug regimen, which you're never gonna get off of. It's just gonna continue to go and go and go, and then whatever problems that causes, you'll eventually be on another drug. It's just kind of a downhill spiral, but that's pretty much what we've learned to accept and believe that that is healthcare. But it's actually not fixing the problem, even if it dulls, like say if it was just the pins and needles or the pain, you didn't feel that anymore.

Yeah.

It didn't fix it because if you don't take it, now you still feel it. So the problem's still there.

Yeah, so that's a really good point. And there's another connection. So like what we hear focus at Clear Cardio is cardiovascular disease, right? So stroke and heart attack prevention. And we know what causes heart attacks and strokes is plaque rupture. The common treatment today of the idea that they think you have heart disease, or they think you're at risk of heart attack or stroke, is if you fail, you know, a stress test, or you're having some type of symptoms, symptomatics, angina, things like that, you have a high calcium score, something like that. And they'll do a heart catheterization, which is invasive, but they'll do that. And if they see a 70% blockage or more, They'll go ahead and put in a stent or a balloon. Just like on the neuropathy issue with the medications where they're treating the symptom, i.e., the tingling, the burning, the pain, the inflammation, or whatever, they're not addressing the underlying cause. Like putting a stent or balloon or something like that in, That interventional cardiology, that's treating the symptom, which is the, you know, shortness of breath, it's the angina, it's the pain, it's things like that.

Mm-hmm.

But it's not treating the underlying cause of those things, which is plaque buildup in the arterial wall and, you know, through various causes, right? It's not treating the underlying disease, it's treating the symptom. So there's a very close connection to what we're doing here at ClearCardio and what you're doing there at the Neuropathway Institute. So please continue.

Yeah, yeah, no, great. And so now you're talking about going back in, tracing that back, maybe it's a pinch to the nerve that runs down the leg. So then maybe it's just things are misaligned. That's a possibility that it's a pinched nerve. It's also possible that there's degeneration into there and the myelin sheath that protects that nerve is breaking down. So now—

So the myelin sheath.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's— So if I understand this right, and guys bear with me here, if I understand that right, the myelin sheath is like if you have an electrical wire, one of the things they put is a plastic coating over that electrical wire, that copper wire or whatever it is, so that if the 2 copper wires touch that are near each other, they don't short out or cause a fire or shut down the system. It allows for that— they're insulators, right?

For sure.

To protect the wire. So the myelin sheath that is around the nerves acts just like that. But if that wears away, then there's risk of what?

Well, then it's exposed, right? So now another wire could come and touch it. Think about if you're gonna pour water on it.

So another nerve could touch another nerve and short out that nerve.

Of course.

Yeah, and cause pain.

Yeah, yeah, so you can have pain, dysfunction.

Or weakness.

It can be weakness to muscles 'cause the nerves are gonna control the muscle function as well too, so you could have muscle weakness. Yeah, so you will get a symptom, right? 'Cause all those things that we just described, those are symptoms. And a symptom is never really the problem, just like what you were talking about with the cardio.

Right, it's a result of an underlying issue, yeah. Okay, so today's, the majority of today's Physicians, the medical system treats these types of things like neuropathy, typically the symptoms. So giving you medications, you're on those medications for life because they're not addressing the underlying disease. What do you guys do at the Neuropathway Institute in Utah?

So what we've done on those cases is we go through and we'll reset the connections for the spinal nerves, make sure that the muscles are stabilizing it around it, ligaments are stabilizing it, And so if everything— if you can go to the source and get that to function correctly, then you don't have the problem anymore. And so we've had multiple cases where they'll come in, they have the neuropathy, we identify what it is, it's not pathological at this point, so then we just go ahead, we treat it, and they don't have the problem.

Hmm.

Once we treat it, we find that we don't have to do it again. So everything we do at the clinic is designed where it's not a, you're gonna keep coming in every day or every week. for the rest of your life. It's let's go and figure out what it is, let's fix it, and now you get to go out and enjoy your life again without having that problem.

And you don't, without the necessity for medications.

Right.

Interesting. So how do people find you? Like, you know, one of the things that we're working so hard on is education, education, education. The fact that we can actually address the underlying disease and then, you know, Ideally prevent you from having a heart attack or stroke. How do people like find out about you? Like, how did this— how did— well, first of all, how did this all come into play? Like, how— what did you just stumble on this? Like one morning you have a dream, electric, you get hit by lightning. What, what came up? How did that happen?

Yeah, you know, I think people come into your existence, into your, your life at a time of need when you're ready, right? It's like being ready for those opportunities when they come. If you're not ready, that opportunity passes you by. Maybe you'll get another one, maybe you won't.

You went to school for what?

So I went to school actually here locally in Dallas at Parker University.

Oh, so you went to Parker University? I did, I did. Okay, good school, yeah?

Okay. So that's where I graduated.

What did you study there?

And I got my doctorate in chiropractic in 2002. 2001, I got my bachelor's in anatomy through them.

Okay.

And so then I moved back to Utah and opened up a practice there.

Okay, okay. Is that where you're from, Utah?

Originally California.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, down in Orange County.

Okay, okay, very good. And so you ended up in Utah?

I did.

Okay, and that's— and so that's where you started your practice?

Yes.

And you were doing chiropractic stuff, I guess?

Yeah, so I did traditional chiropractic when I came out. Okay. Did what I was taught in school, you know, did some adjustments. You can do some therapies and things like that, and I just— I just wasn't happy doing it.

You weren't happy. What was it about it that you didn't like?

I, I just didn't feel like I was really doing anything to necessarily change, um, patients' lives for the fact that I kept doing the same thing. They come in and you give— you adjust them and get things aligned up so that their body's more functional and their pain would go away. It was great. But then they go back out, get in their car, and they throw it right back out again. And so then what we were taught is that, well, that's because it's muscle memory. And so that's why you have to, you know, have them come in once a week for, or, you know, 3 times a week for 4 weeks and then 2 times a week for 4 weeks. It's basically, it's a system that we were taught that this is what you tell every patient. Physical therapists do the same thing where it's like, because it's a business model, you know, to get somebody to come in.

Mm-hmm.

And then you're telling them it's muscle memory. And then once your muscles remember that this is how it's supposed to hold it, then it'll start to hold it. And you get some people that definitely, you know, they did get better, absolutely. but there's others that it just didn't. And so my problem was I hated looking at somebody and realize how this just didn't work for you. And because I always felt inside that there's gotta be a way where you can help, if not everybody, pretty dang close to that.

Mm-hmm.

And I just never really felt fulfilled. So I was ready to just leave. I was actually offered a job at a salary where— and I was really considering taking it.

In chiropractic?

No, no, just completely getting out of the industry.

Oh, just getting out of the industry completely?

Close my doors and be done, yeah.

No kidding, getting out of medicine, practicing, all that stuff?

Yeah.

Wow, okay, so then, but you didn't take that job.

I didn't.

So then what happened? Like, where, like, how did you stumble, like, how did you create, you know, Neuropathway Institute? Like, how did that happen?

Yeah, long, long story, but to just make it short, it was a friend who just felt inspired. He called me out of the blue and You know, usually when somebody calls you up you haven't seen for a long time and they ask you the question, "Hey, how you doing?" There's a certain way where you typically answer. It's like, "Oh yeah, doing good," right? Or whatever.

Yippee-ki-yay!

Right? Yeah. Life's great. How you doing? You're dying on the inside. You just deflect really quick.

Yeah.

But but this one time I didn't do that. I just said, "You know, I'm not doing great. I I think I'm done. I think I'm out. I'm just closing my doors." And he says, "Well, before you do that, come over and see what we're doing." And I'm like, ah, why not? So I went over and kind of saw what he was doing.

In Utah?

Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, it was just, you know, one city over. And so I went over there and started seeing what they were doing. And he was working with a Dr. Buehler, who does some incredible work with muscle reactivation.

Muscle reactivation, so that's the idea or the practice of getting existing muscles that may have atrophied Or have just kind of, through age or whatever damage, are not functioning as they should.

Yeah, basically, you're right. If they're just— they're dysfunctional, they're not doing their job, and so then we adapt and we recruit and use other things. Then he had a method that you could actually reconnect those pathways, plug them back in again, and then they would immediately start to work. And so I had seen that once before when I was in school.

Reconnect the pathways.

Yeah.

For those of us again who are not doing this every day, I know maybe some of you do, maybe some of you don't, but okay, what does that mean, reconnecting the pathways?

So think about it like you had so many lights on in your house and then you're turning on the dishwasher and then you turned on the blender and all of a sudden you blew the circuit.

That's actually happened to me recently actually, yeah. Turned on the hot tub and everything shut down, yeah.

So it just kind of blew. So it wasn't like something hit your house and blew it out. So it wasn't a trauma necessarily, but it was just so much going on that it was just too much for the system.

Circuit overload. Uh-huh.

And so similar to the body, what can happen, it can be from trauma, it can be from other things, but it can also just be you had so much going on it just blew the circuit and it's off. So it's there, it's not like it's been removed, it's there, but it's just not firing and the light, the switch isn't on anymore. So you go flip the breaker switch, right, at your breaker box, and then all of a sudden it's back on.

Connects the circuit. Everything works again. And the hot tub turns on and everybody's Nice and warm.

Yeah, I got it.

So that's what you guys are doing?

Well, that's where I got my start, and he was very kind. We hit it off good, and so he mentored me, and I worked out of his office for a bit while I was still continuing school.

So you did like an internship there?

Kind of like that, yeah. It was just a great opportunity to learn from someone who'd been doing— been in the profession for 20, 30 years. So it was great. I appreciate always his willingness to do that for me.

Yeah.

But then what happened from there is kind of went a little bit further. There's 296 muscles that are in that system that you can turn on. I know there's more muscles than that in the body.

So we have— how many muscles do we have in our body?

You have over like over 700 muscles is the term that I saw on there.

No kidding.

I wouldn't be able to name all 700 muscles.

I have about 7 muscles in my body. But no, 700 muscles, wow.

And so what I did is I started to identify how you can treat the rest of those muscles that had not been done before. And so then I started working on that, and it started to give me that little bit of that fulfillment as to like, okay, now I feel like I'm doing more than I'm supposed to because I know there's more.

Yeah.

And then that kind of led over to— you find cases where it's like, okay, now we're helping this much more people, but what about this section of people that still don't get better? What am I missing on them? And so I started looking into ligaments. Is there something that we can do for ligaments with that same concept? And there was.

So turning these switches on.

Yes.

So resetting the breakers of ligaments and muscles. Okay, in order to, to, to, for your body to start, start using them again in the way that they were initially designed to be used, right? As God had divinely set it up, set us up that way, right? You're just putting those switches back on.

Think about doing like a factory reset.

Factory reset. I like that. That's a good term. All right, and so you went through this process. So, okay, so you're a chiropractor. You went to school here in Texas. We're filming in our podcast studio right here in Carrollton, Texas, just north of Dallas. Shameless plug. But here, so you went to school here in Dallas. You ended up going to Utah and you became a chiropractor. You had your practice for how many years?

I've been in practice 23 years.

23 years, so a long time. And you decided that, hey, you know, this isn't for me. I'm not happy seeing the way this is the traditional method. You went and tutored underneath Dr. Buhler, okay? And that was in Utah?

Yes.

Okay, and he taught you about this new way of thinking about things.

Yes.

Turn the lights back on for muscles, and then you found out ligaments after that fact, that are not functioning properly. And then you built your— from there you decided to build your own company, Neuropathway Institute.

Yeah.

Did I synopsize that?

Right, right, yeah. And the most part, so it went through the ligaments, right? And then The concept I always used was this: well, if it works, if you can push on different points and you can reset, factory reset, you know, for muscles to get to work again, you can do it for ligaments. Is that all, or is there more you can do? And then we realized that you can actually do that for other functions in your body with organs and then into the brain neurologically.

Mm-hmm.

And then, like I mentioned, I think when I said people come into your existence when you need it, it was very interesting. I had just started tapping in and identifying that, hey, we can do some brain, and then not long after that, A case came before me of his parents taking him to all these different doctors, and the doctors basically had told them, you're gonna have to institutionalize him.

Oh, wow.

So if you understand what that means is once you get into an institution like that, you rarely ever get out of that because you're gonna be so heavily medicated.

You're institutionalized.

You're just, you're never gonna have a functional life, and that's it.

There was a movie called One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which is similar to that, right?

Yes.

Perfectly fine, and everybody was so overmedicated, and then they stopped taking their medications, and they, you know, like, whatever. But yes, fair enough. So, okay, so you went from muscles to ligaments, and then you said, hey, there's a neurological thing here.

Yes.

Right? And so this neurological thing was really where the— and pun intended— the lights came on, right?

Right.

Okay. Hence the birth of neurological— the neuro institute.

And this one case is what gave me what I needed to and know that it's possible. Because what had happened, it was a head trauma. He got hit in the head with a golf club.

Oh my goodness.

And so obviously that could cause some issues, right? How old was this person? He became a different— he was in his 20s. And so he became a different person personality-wise. He was hit more towards the frontal lobe, which is where our personalities are.

Was it an accident, on purpose?

It was an accident.

It was an accident. Oh my goodness. Well, golf clubs are not forgiving.

They are not.

I know, especially when you're play as bad as I do. Not forgiving, but especially if you get hit in the head with one, right?

Well, you just need to play in Utah where your ball goes further.

Fair enough. Yeah, fair enough. Okay, so you see this case and you said, there's gotta be something I can do here.

Yeah. And so I did what I knew how to do at that point, which was kind of limited. But long story short, we were able to change it. I visited with him for a total of 4 times, 4 sessions, right? And now fast forward, where is this person? He went back to school, got his degree, psychology degree in college, right? And then he went on to be— he's working in the golf industry now as a professional.

Wow.

He has a functional life, but this was an individual that if his parents had not accepted what he was being told by all their doctors, he would not be what he is now.

He'd be a vegetable, probably, or overly medicated, you know, drooling on himself somewhere.

Absolutely.

Okay. So, okay, how did you do it? Like, how did you, I guess, cure this guy? How did you cure this guy?

Similar to, you know, how we talked a little bit before this, and I worked on you a little bit.

Yeah, okay, so right there.

It's basically that.

So for those watching, Thank you. So, prior to starting the podcast, Eric came in a little earlier and he said, let me show you something. Let me show you something. So, you know, I was very optimistic. You know, transparently, I didn't know exactly what you did. You and I chatted on the phone and it was very compelling to me, and especially the idea that you guys are being very proactive and and not traditional. Eric took me down the hall, had me lay down in different positions and things like that, and worked on me in the way that you do, I guess. I don't know if it was placebo or if it was actual. The jury's out right now. Well, We'll find out. But I actually felt better. My neck felt better, and just where I was pushing things, it actually felt like it made somewhat of a difference. Now, we'll see how long that goes, but— and you said it improves over time, yeah?

Yeah, so all those things will continue, right? And then what we did specifically, and we treated the vermis, which deals with upright posture, then we treated your accessory nerve, which controls your—

All of those things.

He's multitasking.

But yes, So yeah, and it was easy. It didn't hurt. It was like we were done deal. Like it was like 5, 10 minutes maybe. And so it was really good. So I have experience here, guys. I am an actual guinea pig on this thing. And so I can tell you that at least, you know, anecdotally, I felt like it made a difference. But I'd love to hear, I know we'd love to hear more about this.

This is really remarkable.

Hello everybody and welcome. This is Dr. John Osborne, the Chief Medical Officer of Clear Cardio, and I have something really exciting I want to share with you. We now have a newsletter. So this newsletter is all of the great science that I look at every day and read and scour the medical literature for, important studies, important outcome studies, new tools, new drugs, new data on nutrition, all of the different things. That I commit my life and have committed my life to and am passionate about in helping me to further preventive cardiology, from new diagnostic tools to new blood tests to new medications to the latest on intermittent fasting and dietary approaches to help people live longer and better. So it will all be in our newsletter. It is great reading. The price is right too because it's free. So please subscribe to our newsletter. Go to clearcardio.com, or you can click down below and get access to our newsletter. Whether you're one of our patients or not, it's all good. But I, I love reading. I'm a voracious reader. I love medicine, and I love finding all the little charms, little treasures out there that make me a better doc, that better inform me, and ultimately Help people along the way. So please, please support my, my habit of finding the greatest, newest, most important literature, and I'm delighted to share that with you. So please click below, subscribe, we'll get you on the newsletter list, and I think you'll really find it fascinating. So again, click below, join our newsletter, and we'll be really excited to help educate, or as— because we're in Texas, I like to say edumacate you on preventative cardiology and what the latest and greatest tools, tricks, and treasures are. So thank you again. This is Dr. John Osborne, the Chief Medical Officer of Clear Cardio, and click below and get on that newsletter.

But that was— yeah, so then that's where we now have thousands of different pathways we can do. So then you were talking about conditions. I'll just share Just one more. You know, we kind of talked a little bit about the neuropathy, but then, and that's where when you and I first started talking, you know, and I sent you that video of a tremor patient, because that's an interesting one. When you ask the question, like, what is the current treatment for that?

And so when you go and you ask them, what's the current treatment for tremors? So tremors, he's just shaking all the time. And I've seen videos where they give him a little marijuana or something and then And they slow down. People with Parkinson's, is it Parkinson's is the one that they shake a lot or they can't, they twitch a lot or something like, what is it?

Yeah, so Parkinson's, you're gonna have a tremor. Typically you'll start to curl, you'll start to walk very rigid as you're losing that mobility. So they'll take really short steps. And then it just progressively gets worse, right? Which unfortunately those neurodegenerative diseases are progressive. Up to this point, there really hasn't been anything that has shown that it can actually stop it or reverse it. It's just trying to make the person more comfortable in getting through it. In fact, this is one of the things that we really want to look at because we feel we've seen improvements, we've seen changes with Parkinson's patients, but we really kind of lit my fire on even wanting to do more with that and really help people to, like, not have to be, like, trapped in this sentence. Tremors in general.

Yeah.

Is I was talking to a person and they had just gotten diagnosed with it and they're like, oh, I said—

With Parkinson's?

Yeah. And they're like, I start therapy next week. I'm like, hey, do you mind just call me after that? And I'd like to know how therapy went. So they called me up and I said, well, how did therapy go? And here's what they told me. They said, well, they started out and they told us what they're gonna do, which is basically just teach us how to live life for how bad our life's gonna get. And I said, are you kidding me?

So just kind of describing their future.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's what the therapy is for Parkinson's? I was like, you gotta be joking me.

It's almost like psychological therapy. It's not physical therapy. It's not addressing the physiology. It's addressing the psychology of you're gonna eventually die here, and it's gonna be a miserable way of going.

Right.

Yeah, no, that sounds awful.

That's what I thought. So that kind of lit my fire. I was like, okay, then there's gotta be something more we can do. And so I'm not sitting here saying, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna treat people with these conditions. That's not what I'm saying. What we're doing is we're helping them, their bodies heal and overcome what it's doing to their bodies. And that's by going in specifically with that. You've got to do a lot of work with the nucleus accumbens and the basal ganglia, these interconnected pathways in the brain that are going to allow things to work together. And when we do that, we have the symptomatic change. And then we've been doing videos to basically show before and after so that we're documenting those improvements.

Where can our viewers go and see those videos? Can they go on your site and things like that?

Yeah, so we're putting links on all that to the website. The website is just utahhealing.com.

Utahhealing.com.

Yeah, very simple. That's the clinic website for Neural Pathway Institute. And so you can go on there, you can have different explanations. We'll have that tremor video on there too.

We'll put a link at the bottom of our video here. here in the description so that you guys can follow it through, just so you guys know.

But there's nothing for this, you know, there's not a lot you can do for those things. So then we're talking about the tremor, right? So this person, he comes in, 13 years he's had this tremor, right? And that's the video that I showed you. And when he comes in, it's a very excessive tremor. He's been tested.

No, I saw. He was really uncomfortable watching.

Right. And so his concern comes in—

No Parkinson's.

He says, right, he doesn't have Parkinson's, but he says, I can't ever go out. He says, I can't go out to eat because I fling food everywhere and then I've got to apologize for it. And you're like, you know, he was kind of joking around, making a joke of it, but that's serious. I mean, how fun is that life? Yeah. You know, and you feel for him.

I can't imagine a life not going out to dinner, guys.

There's some great places to eat out.

I do that 3 or 4 times a week. But yeah, yeah. And despite my doctor's recommendations.

Well, you work for a good one.

Yes, the best, actually, the best.

He tells me what to eat. Right. And then, so it's really, what we did is I treated him through his thalamus. And those are all things that you can look up as to why.

Through his what?

It's called the thalamus gland, which is another name is the master gland. So it's in your brain, right? The thalamus gland. It's kind of, really what that does is, think of it as like a central hub. I mean, that's where everybody's going through.

So it's Grand Central Station?

Kind of, a little bit, right? And that's why it's the central hub.

Without all the homeless.

And so we treated a couple pathways there.

Yeah.

And end result was within less than an hour later, we take his video and he's completely stable. He's lifting his arms above his head. He can lift them slow, high. He'd been going to neurologists. Again, like I said, he's had it for 13 years. He'd been doing therapy at University of Utah Neurology once a week for years. No change. I asked him, have you ever had change? He says, never. There's never been anything different. And then we were able to make that change. That was done over a year ago. Even today he still has that improvement. He's never faltered back.

Wow.

And so it's—

that's the power of the BioNaps.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, you have a before and after. Where can they find that? On your website?

Yeah, that'll be linked on there too.

Okay. And Utah— it's called UtahHealing.com. Okay, got it.

Awesome. Yeah.

Wow. Why isn't everybody doing this? I mean, like, if that's If it's so dramatic, and this will work for everybody?

So we've had, I mean, honestly, at this point we've had thousands of people come through the clinic. I have 3 doctors that work there full-time, and then we have other ones that we've actually already started, they're in school currently, and they're coming back to us afterwards. So we've kind of been building it that way. The reason why it's really not out there is because up until just recently, I've never allowed it to be taught outside of my office.

I see.

And so we only do it in that clinic only.

Out of concerns that they won't be done properly and they'll get a bad reputation that it doesn't work because they're not doing it properly.

I mean, I think that's definitely some truth there for sure, JD. I also think it's you don't know what you don't know, and I've never tried to go out and teach to other people and go outside, and so I didn't know what that looked like because I never tried it, if that makes sense. So that's part of that too.

Scaling can be scary. It's a lot of work too. A lot of work. We're in the process of scaling Clear Cardio nationally, and we've got some great announcements coming up, guys, about that. And, you know, 'cause you've got Dr. Osborne, and we've gotta create more Dr. Osborne's. I agree with that, yeah. And we're very serious about doing that correctly.

That's awesome.

So that, you know, one thing is diagnosing, the other thing is treating, and we've gotta make sure that the treatments, you know, Because we take that very seriously. So I can imagine how that can be daunting to you.

Yeah, so, you know, so I guess a little bit fear on my point.

Yes.

On that sense as well. But we realize that there's only so many people you're gonna be able to help in our clinic. We don't— we've never really advertised what we do. It's just word of mouth. You know, people know people that you got to go here, and it's been fine.

It's referral-based.

Yeah, and I can continue to business like that and just be fine for the rest of my life. But we have really what our slogan is now. What we really want to do is we want to bring hope and healing to the world. And I believe we can do that because when you're not feeling right, when things aren't working right, similar with the cardiovascular, you're just not happy.

Yeah.

And if you're not happy, that affects everybody around you. That's your home life. That's your work life. That's how you feel about yourself. I mean, we're in such a horrible state of mental health problems here. You know, in the US, let alone in the world, right? A lot of those, interesting enough, if you think about it, it's a chemical imbalance.

Mm-hmm.

So what produces those chemicals? Where are they produced? What regulates that? And that's your brain. If you could change that and you can balance out the brain, then potentially what types of changes could you have? And that's— that was our concept, and that's what we're seeing with emotional problems as well, that that emotional instability isn't necessary. It doesn't have to be there. Including traumas. What happens when we have a PTSD trauma is we have memories. We're always creating memory, right?

Yeah.

But then our bodies attach a negative emotion, a negative consequence to that memory. Now, every time that's triggered, what happens? Takes you right back to that spot that's negative. What if you could actually separate that? What if you could separate that negative emotion to the memory? You would still remember it, but you don't have the negative that goes with it. It doesn't have to be visual.

Our visceral response is no longer there.

Exactly. And that's what we've been able to do over and over again in the clinic with helping people. Just, it's just not there anymore. And it's completely safe. There's no— you— we worked on you. There's no way that would ever harm anybody with what we're doing.

No, it's painless. In fact, I almost fell asleep. I'm not used to laying down in the middle of the afternoon, so it was relaxing. And the question I have is this: a lot, unfortunately, unfortunately, we're working very hard to change this through podcasts like this and talking to and having people, you know, participate in these podcasts, both on this side of the camera as well as on the other side, the viewers.

Yeah.

Is unfortunately in cardiovascular disease, which has gotten worse since the— it's the number one killer of all human beings on the earth since the 1920s, and it's it's only getting worse, is most— half, roughly half the time we don't know that we have it and our first symptom is death. Okay? So, and when we do know we have something going on, it's usually we're pretty far down that road. We're stage 2 or stage 3, in many cases stage 3. About 30— 4% of our patients who come in are stage 3, which has serious disease, i.e., lots of soft plaque in their arteries, and they're at high risk of heart attack or stroke. I'd say about 40%-ish are stage 2, still risk of heart attack and stroke for sure, lots of soft plaque, but less than stage 3. And then the rest is stage 1. One, only less than 1% of our patients have zero heart disease. And that's typically, we're seeing patients over the age of 40. But we're seeing younger people. Now, unfortunately for us, we're having to educate a lot of people, half the population, because they don't know they have heart disease, there's no symptoms.

Right.

Are you saying that on the neurological side, Yes, I would imagine most people know that something's wrong, right? Like if they've got muscle tremors and they've got issues in neuropathy, or they've got psychological depression or other types of things that are going on neurologically, those are symptoms that are pretty out there in your face, right? They're out there.

Right.

And you're treating those, right, successfully. Are you saying that there's an opportunity to educate the people to say, you may have things going on that you don't know about, similar to heart disease? 50% of us don't know we have heart disease. That they could be proactive and come in to see you guys and go through this scanning technology? Where do you do the scans, by the way?

Yeah, so what you're describing, which is phenomenal because it's taking like the AI technology that you guys are using with ClearCardio, which is incredible, right?

And guys, we're gonna share some images here on the screen here shortly showing the brain imaging that Eric does and his team does, and it's remarkable. I've seen it, the before and afters and all the things. It's pretty cool, so you'll see that.

Yeah, and so what these are, the new technology is called an ANDI, an A-N-D-I. It just stands for Advanced Neurodiagnostic Imaging.

ANDI, Advanced Neurological Diagnostic Imaging.

That works.

Yes.

Got it.

Andy, guys, Andy.

Okay. And so we have a local imaging center there in Utah, and they have some around the country that do it. It's new technology. A lot of people haven't actually heard of it yet. But basically what it's going to do is it'll actually go in and use AI technology. It's a brain MRI, but it'll recreate your white matter. It'll recreate your own brain. So then with their technology, they can identify which pathways are broken down. Through the microstructural measures as well as volume, like what's the size of it. And so then they can take that data. So what's amazing with that, when you see the images as well, it'll make more sense. But then you know exactly where somebody's issue is. There's 33 different white matter pathways. There are more than that in the brain, but that's what their system is currently set at.

I do know they're working on other ones.

Why 33?

Is that like the low-hanging fruit?

That's the bigger ones, the bigger problems that Most of those are the bigger ones, yes, yes. And I do know, I had heard that they're coming out with a 2.0 version, which I would assume, I do not know for sure, but I would assume is even going to be more detailed with even additional pathways that it's going to be able to measure and track. But why that's so important is because as we age, I mean, that's what, if you go online and you can read about it, you can Google it, whatever you want to do about it, but the common knowledge that we all have learned to accept information is Is that as we get older, it degrades, that our brain starts to get worse.

I just assume that too. I mean, that's when you think about dementia, whether it's Alzheimer's or something else, you think it's, well, when you get old, the brain, everything just starts to age and get old and die and get crumbly and whatever. And you're saying that's not necessarily the case.

Right.

Okay.

And there was a study that I came across that was recently done, well, sort of recently, back in 2021 from UCSF. And they did, they did this study and it was really remarkable because it gave exactly what we've already thought, that it doesn't actually waste away, it just becomes dormant. And that's what their study found is that they think now that we don't lose the capacity, it's almost like it gets shut off. And so in their statement and their, of their findings, they said if there was a way to reconnect those and get those to work again, we think that would actually help the Wow. And you could get it back again.

Wow.

Which is exactly what our theory is. But up to this point, we've never had a way of really proving if you're doing that. Just like you made the term, you know, you said, I don't know if it's placebo or whatnot that I feel better. I do feel better, but I don't know why yet.

Yeah, how do you prove it?

Right.

Like at Clear Cardio, one of the things that, like, like today's— most of today's cardiology practices, they They say, we think you have heart disease. We don't know if you do, we think you do. We think you do because you have a calcium score that isn't zero, because you didn't pass the stress test, because we did a heart cath and we put a stent in, or that. But we don't really know the extent of it. Like if you ask cardiologists, 99% of cardiologists today, how much soft plaque do I have? Where is that soft plaque? And what type of soft plaque it is, because there's different types of soft plaque— there's low density and then the medium density— they'll— the answer is going to be, I have no idea. All right, so they're treating somebody that they think has, so they give them medications, and those— they're on medications forever, right? Statins to lower— not that there's anything wrong with statins, but they're lowering statins to lower cholesterol, visceral fat issues, things like that. And then they'll see if your calcium score is going up or not. But they don't really know 'cause they're not really understanding what they're treating yet. So you could be on these medications forever. There's no before and after.

Right.

Whereas we, we take imaging, we take all of the things, the blood work, the imaging, the AI tools, and the analysis and diagnosis, and we compare this year versus next year. Is it working? And because we can physically see it's working.

Yeah.

Whereas you're doing the exact same thing.

Yeah.

You're actually seeing the rebuilding of these neural pathways, the remyelinization in the brain. You're seeing these things, the improvement in mental capacity and other types of, you know, resolutional type responses from the patient.

And we are, and that's the amazing part. Now, sometimes people say, well, why does white matter matter to me?

Neurodegenerative diseases—

Why does matter matter? Right, I like it. Parkinson's, MS, dementia, Alzheimer's, all those, what they have in common is degeneration of the white matter in the brain. So that's common knowledge, right? White matter breaking down is gonna lead to cognitive decline, It's gonna lead to emotional instability. It's gonna lead to all these types of issues. So if somebody's already kind of thinking, maybe I got some of that, there's a good chance you have it. Now, the technology is out there to show you exactly what part of it is wrong. Which pathway is it that's off, right? And that's what we did with these cases, where we sent them in there, what's off, and then we treated them specifically with the work that we do.

See, that's the key.

Yeah.

That's the key. A lot of imaging coming out there. There's a lot of full-body scans and blah, blah, blah. Some of them are good, some of them are just nonsense, and some of them are scams. And what are they really getting out of them, right? The differentiation is, and this is where I see, I know that ClearCardio differentiates, just talk to our patients, is it's not about just the diagnosis, it's not just about understanding. First and foremost, the most important thing is, do you have the disease? Do you have an issue going on?

Right.

In your case, do we have a heart disease or a stroke or heart attack? heart attack risk. What is the value of that disease, stage of that disease? But then we treat it. We don't just say, okay, well, it is what it is, here's some meds, or maybe not. We actually treat that. You're saying now we can treat that.

Right. And for years, anytime a patient would bring in their brain MRI, and on that, and if you go back and you look at it, it'll say that. It'll talk about how your degradation of the Yeah. And when you ask the doctor, well, what about that? What are we gonna do? It's the same answer every single time. We're gonna monitor it. And that's honest because there hasn't been anything that's really been proven to change that.

And then treat you until you're wearing diapers and you can't speak.

Sometimes.

Yeah, unfortunately.

But what we've done—

my wife's mother was diagnosed—

Had that same problem.

Had the same problem, and she's got severe dementia. Now she's nonverbal, she's non-ambulatory, And she's only in her 80s. I know that sounds old for a lot of people, but, you know, when you're my age, it doesn't seem far off, right? So you don't want that to be old. But yeah, so now you're saying you can, you can proactively go after that. The sooner you get in there and do this, the sooner you can see if there's some issues there and you can start treating it right away, right? You can be preventative about it.

Yes. And so we did that, and then we sent the person back in there for the follow-up to make sure to prove So the first case study that we did, they had 11 out of those 33 tracts out of normative range. For him, they were only able to pick up 31 of those tracts. 2 of them didn't show. So it'll say on his report, 11 out of 31. Well, we sent him in 5 months later to have that exam done again. He was down to 7.

Wow.

Which means the brain is starting to change.

Wow.

There was evidence of thickening of the white matter. The white matter, which means white matter can regrow, which is myelin that we talked about before with neuropathy.

Yeah.

So there's proof that it can happen. The body has that ability. We didn't give any supplements. I didn't— we didn't do any outside injections or anything else. That's just flat out the work that we call NPI, which is Neural Pathway— we have the Neural Pathway Institute, and then Neural Pathway Integration is the technique that we use to do it that we're starting to teach now to doctors. We did a second case study.

This is groundbreaking.

It's pretty phenomenal.

Yeah.

The second case study was a 37-year-old. The first one was a 62-year-old. The second one was a 37-year-old. He had 10 out of normative range. When we sent him in 8 months later for his reevaluation, he was down to 3 out of normative range.

Wow.

Now, for both of them, all those things came into play. Memory's better. They're sharper cognitively. emotional stability. They don't have— they're not flying off the handle anymore. Things have changed.

They're not crying at every movie.

You could always get out and play games.

I might need some more white matter because I'm a big baby when it comes to any kind of emotional movie.

But it's just— it's absolutely incredible that this is out there, just like it's out there for cardiovascular. So if anybody's really concerned of like, hey, I don't want to die of a heart attack because, you know, I've had family members do that and I don't want to go through that. I don't want to do that to my family. Well, then why wouldn't you go get checked? Why wouldn't you do something?

So my wife's going to come out, Yvette's going to come out because she's hurt like her mother and her grandmother. It's just dementia runs in the family and they just accepted it. So, um, absolutely, I'm going to have her, have her go through this process without a doubt because why not get it? Let's get ahead of it. Like, let's be preventative. Let's not wait till you You're in the dementia stages before you go down this road, similar to what we suggest everybody do is come to Clear Cardio from a cardiovascular perspective, be proactive.

For sure. Much easier to take care of something if you can get in beginning stages versus latter stages.

100%. 100%. Okay, wow, this is really interesting. So what a story you've gone through. And so what is— what's— what's in a couple of words, what's What's the next step in your journey?

We're starting to do seminars where we're teaching other physicians as to how we do our work. We want to pass that on. It's like, the interesting thing about this is I call it a live work versus a dead work. Now, what I mean by that is a dead work is something that, here it is, here's the information, now you can just go copy-repeat, you can do it. Does that make sense? But it's not really going to change. You're not going to add to it, you're not changing it at all. Yeah, it's just That you can put on print.

It's not growing.

And you can use.

It's not in situ growth. It's not like you're not building on it, making it better.

Right. But what we're constantly doing is because there's so much we still don't even know, even with what we have, we're going to be constantly building to it. So it's a growing living system to where we're constantly adding more and saying, oh, this ties with this. Here's what you're going to do here.

Version 2.0.

Exactly. So due to that, the way we're teaching it is we'll go in and we'll certify doctors at different levels, and then we're gonna continually always be giving them more and more content.

So what would you tell, if someone was watching this, who is a physician or someone who aspires to be a physician, how do they, what would they do? They contact you and you would train them and go through that process? That's available?

Yeah.

Okay, so I suspect there'll be some viewers Who, because we know a lot of physicians watch our podcast, would be wanting to reach out to you, as well as potential patients who would want to come out to you. So, what would they do? Do they go to your website? Is there, on your website, would they fill out the information and say, I would like to be one of your physicians, or I'd like to be a patient? How does that work?

Yeah, yeah, when you go to the website, there's the information. There's a lot of information there, and you can always call and talk to the front desk, and they can direct accordingly to who can give that information out there. That website works. We'll be starting in December. We're excited. We've been kicking the can around on that idea, but we're going to start a podcast.

Oh, good.

The title we have is Beyond the Cure. Beyond the Cure. And it'll be similar in the sense that our focus is really going to be to get the information out there to people just so that you're aware of it, right? Then you make your own decision as to what you feel is best for you and your family, but you should be informed.

You getting a lot of pushback from traditional medicine, the way they traditionally treat this stuff?

Anytime you step outside of a box in any industry, you're going to get that kickback as to like, get back in line.

That means you're doing something right. That's what I say.

People don't like you, probably so.

Yeah, that's what I say. And I talked to Dr. Osborne and some of the other physicians, Dr. Cazzori and so on, and our staff. When you get pushback from, you know, the institution that's been out there for a long time, you're typically doing something right. So keep doing what you're doing. I want to thank you for being on the show. If there's one last thing you'd like to tell our audience, our viewing audience, you can look in the camera. Is there anything you'd like to Anything you want to tell them before you sign off?

Honestly, I think we've covered just about everything here, but I really do appreciate the opportunity to visit with you, JD. I really enjoyed my conversation with Dr. Osborne. He is a very genuine person, and you can tell that when you first talk to him. The work that you guys are doing 100% are saving lives because cardiovascular, again, when you're— the first symptom that you even have a problem is death. That's just unacceptable.

Yeah.

And so I'm super excited that Dr. Osborne is willing to go out on a limb and, you know, just be that, be that ruffle the feathers.

Yeah.

As what I'm not trying to necessarily cause problems.

Yeah.

But I want people to understand that there's something out there that you can do. You do not have to accept that this is my life and this is my sentence until I die.

Yeah, that's right. And that's exactly That's exactly what you guys are doing as well. So, well, thank you very much, Eric. I appreciate that. For those of you who would like to meet with Eric and the NeuroInstitute, please click the link below and reach out to them. Let them know that you saw them, you saw him here on the Prevention Is Power podcast with Clear Cardio. And thank you for joining. And we'll be coming out with another one here shortly, in about a week or so, with Dr. Osborne. We'll be talking about some, a really controversial situation, but I'll keep you on the edge on that one. But again, thanks for joining again for another Prevention is Power podcast. I'm J.D. Enright, Chairman and CEO of Clear Cardio. Until next time, cheers.

Cheers.