Creating a $500,000 Per Year Insurance Empire ft. Larry McLean | Ep11

If you're paying 7% interest and now you're not paying 7% interest, you are making 7% interest. And that is true. Most people don't understand that you are now making, because that interest is staying in your checking account.

What's up, y'all? John Wetmore here again with another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. I'm just going on a dope little journey around the insurance industry, talking to cool people, teaching y'all how to succeed, make money, and have fun in the business. Got my buddy Larry McLean here who I met out in, I believe the first time we met was in one of Cody's events. Founder, president, Your Family Bank, and one of the coolest people I got to meet in the last year. I had a lot of fun hanging out, getting to know you a little bit. So appreciate you getting on, dude.

Hey, man, I'm glad to be here, buddy. I mean, listen, I'm glad to be anywhere when you get my age, my friend.

Amen. That's right.

That's right.

Yeah, it's a good day when you wake up, ain't it?

Absolutely, my friend. You betcha. You betcha.

I love it. Well, you've had a— I've, I've had the pleasure of hearing you speak, and I watch a lot of people speak. You are— you've, you've definitely done this for a long time and have a cool story, and one of my favorite speakers and storytellers. And, uh, you can always, you can always tell a good speaker when they tell good stories. You have people cracking up. Sure. And, uh, in Cody's events. So would love to, um you know, for you to be able to share a little bit more about your journey. You've been— I know you've been in the business for a while. I don't remember exactly when, but I think, dude, I think you're about damn near as long as I've been alive.

Yeah, it was a while. When, when were you born?

'77.

Okay, I was, uh, 10 years after that going in the business.

So '87.

'87. Yep, I started '87. Uh, started with MetLife Insurance Company, was the first place I grew up at. And, uh, that's back in the day when they actually did training. Uh, we went 3 weeks, uh, down to Tampa, the Southeastern office, to be trained. And the last day of the— our training was they gave us a, a phone book, whatever town you were from, and said, go get them. And that, that was it. We're calling people, you know, cold on the, on the phone, just pointing and dialing, ask if they want to buy some life insurance back in the day.

So But you sold like that.

Exactly. I mean, that's what we did. That's how we work— did. And if you didn't— if you didn't walk in on Friday or Monday with 3 apps, you were lower than a snake belly. I promise you that. Oh man.

So dude, I had a guy call me yesterday, and if you— if he's watching this, I apologize, even though I don't apologize at all.

Yeah.

And he, uh, he called me about automation stuff, and I'm like Dude, I love automations, but can you just pick up the phones?

Right?

He says to me what he wants, and he's like, I just want all the bells and whistles and yada yada yada. And, and I'm like, can you please explain exactly what you're saying? Because you're using— you're just using like adjectives, you're not actually saying what you want this automation to do, right? He's like, I don't want to do anything manually, I just want to make a bunch of money.

Well, that's a good gig if you can get it, buddy. I, you know, at the, at the end of the day, but You know, unfortunately, in our, in our world, it takes a salesperson to, to make it happen. And I always tell our guys and our ladies that it's a contact sport. You got to contact somebody to talk to them, right? You got to, you got to be in front of them either on a Zoom like we're doing today, or you've got to be in person talking to someone and making, making a presentation for sure.

I agree, dude. I'm like, man, I like automations, but I'm like, well, be careful what you ask for, because if they don't need anyone to do anything manually, you know, they'll just get rid of you and keep all the money.

Yeah, what do they need us for, right? At the end of the day, I mean, I think I, I would say this, I think insurance is going to have to always be sold. I don't think people are just going to buy that. It's got to be sold. And if you, if you don't believe that, half America doesn't have life insurance at all. So if you think about that for a second, half of America does not have life insurance whatsoever. So, you know, at the end of the day, you know, life insurance, and we, you know, that's our industry. I mean, annuities, life insurance is, is kind of what, you know, what we do, if you will.

But what up, Insiders? John Wetmore here. Quick break, interruption in the podcast to let you know that if you have interest in leveling up your insurance game, getting to a new level, multi-six figures, building an agency, things like that, I did together a course that you can get access to. What I'm going to be doing is helping you get to a point from like literally going from zero and/or struggling or just getting started to being able to make multiple six figures. I'm going to go through things like your schedule and goals and lead planning and scripts and very nuts and bolts things for you to implement today. And if you use the code INSIDERS, you get 20% off the course right now. Click on the link. Back to the podcast.

You know, when I started you know, it was trying to find a, you know, $20 a month or $50 a month or $100 a month. You were just looking for what people could spend, really, and, and making that sale. Today our world is totally different because when, um, in 14 years ago, uh, we were doing, we were doing annuities and money under management, and we did very, very well that. But in '07 and '08, when the whole world kind of Yeah, fell in. Uh, we were looking for a new source of income, and, um, Infinite Banking was one of those things that came across my desk, which I thought was a, a, you know, I mean, a great concept, you know, but there was no system to sell it. It was, hey, read this book and how much you want to put in this plan for 5 or 6 or 7 years until you can start using it. Uh, and that's, I mean, that's a, that is a good thought process, but it's a hard sell, be honest with you. And so we came up with the idea, and we were the first ones on the block that ever did this. And, uh, we, we, we started showing people how they could use life insurance to get out of debt. And so Your Family Bank Church Legacy Ministries, because we actually started working with churches first, was born. And, uh, you know, we've been doing that now, we're in our 14th year And, you know, our biggest, our biggest, I guess our biggest call to action is we ask, we ask 2 questions. I built a whole company on these 2 questions. And question number 1 is, are you 100% sure you're going to have a great retirement? Do you have some doubt? And how many people tell me they have doubt? Most of them out there.

Most everyone.

Most everyone tell you you got doubt, right? The second question is, what if we can show you how to get out of debt in 9, 10 years, including your mortgage, without spending any additional money than you're spending right now? In a lot of cases, get you out of your consumer debt in the first 24 months and, and show people how they can increase their retirement by taking liabilities and turn them into assets. And that's, that's, that's what's really catapulted, uh, our program, Your Family Bank. And our shelf life is incredible at 14 years. We're still doing the same thing today we were doing 14 years ago, except we had a Yugo then, it's a Bentley today. So it's a lot better, uh, and I'm a lot better, for goodness' sake, so when we first started. So, um, that's kind of what we do, John. We just try to show people how to get out of debt and, and create, uh, you know, an average of $4,600 in, uh, target premium on each case that we do as a company-wide, uh, average for what we do and showing people how to get out of debt, which is which is crazy good, right?

That doesn't suck at all.

No.

So, geez, a case target.

No, I mean, you know, I'll, I'll tell you, I'll tell you a quick story. And, and this just happened. I, I don't like to talk about things that happened 5 years ago or 10 years ago. I mean, I was good then, okay? But, you know, I'm still good today, right? And so, uh, this just happened a month ago. So I had a— there's a pastor, he's, he was a superintendent in Dallas, Texas, actually. And he's given me the okay to— I won't tell you his name, but tell you about his situation. Him and his wife married. They want to retire. They, John, they want to retire in 8 years. That was the plan, right? But they had a mountain of debt. I promise you. I mean, they really did have a mountain of debt. And so the agent referred this guy to me. I got, I got the pastor on the phone and him and his wife, and I says, listen, I said, you've got, you've got a mountain to climb, uh, but I think I can help you. Now, he got a 42-page report, John, from a CFP, Certified Financial Planner, and this is the recommendations that he got back. And I have a copy of the report, and it says, number one, uh, you— there's no way— we run all these Monte Carlos— there's no way that you can retire in 8 years. That's number one. Number two, you may want— you need to start giving money to your church, right? He couldn't do that. He's the pastor, for God's sakes. And the, and the third, third recommendation was you may want to consider filing bankruptcy.

No kidding.

So that, that was the report that he got. So we do what we do. We got the information, we run reports here at our office. We gave him a report. I got him back. It was a Zoom call and I got him back on the phone. We got him out of debt, John, in 7.4 years. Number one, totally debt-free. We freed up $9,700 a month in cash flow. Uh, that was his debt service that he was paying to all his debts, was $9,700 a month. We freed that up. He was able to retire in 8 years with $120,000 of income. His wife wanted more than that, but That's why we're able to get him retired in 8 years. Um, and he'll, he'll basically have over $2 million, uh, in the future by getting out of debt and by taking those liabilities and turning them into assets. Now here's a guy, CFP gives him a glowing report of no hope. It was no hope for him, no hope at all.

Yeah.

And so by showing people how to get— show them how to get out of debt, we really just just changed his world. It was a life-changing event for him and his wife. And when I got off the phone with them, or off the Zoom call, the agent stayed on the phone with them and said they both cried when they seen where they could be. So a lot of people today, John, and, and, and they don't understand it because a lot of times we are, we, we are brainwashed to think that this just how life is. You just, you know, you just If you want to have stuff and you're going to have the house, you're going to have the cars, you're going to have them $2,000 tennis shoes, you know, that you wear. I mean, you know what I'm saying? I mean, it's crazy. But at the end of the day, at the end of the, at the end of the day, interest is killing us. I mean, it really is. And most people don't understand it. And most financial advisors out there don't understand what interest really does because most people, most people, John, they look at, they look at a mortgage, let's say a 4. 2.5%. Let's do an average 4.25% mortgage. And they say, well, that's a pretty good interest rate. But they don't realize that in their first couple of years, they're paying 72% interest. 10 years, 10 years down the road, they're paying 58%. And 20 years, 20 years, they're still paying 34% interest on their mortgage. And they don't understand. They don't, they don't get it. Why? So why we can't retire? Yep.

I feel like I'm really smart, bro. Yeah, I was in mortgages. I have a finance degree. I was an accountant for 10 years.

Yes.

When you showed that, yep, my brain hurt. And I swear to you, dude, I'll never look at interest the same again in my life. I'd never heard it positioned honestly in just the way that it is. It's not like it's not even like manipulating. It just— it's the actual— like, I knew there it was heavy interest up front.

Yep.

But I just never had the—

we all do. Yeah.

Brain to look at it that way. I'm running it now. Would you say $400,000?

Is that what you said? I took a $400,000 house at 4.25%.

I'm gonna put it in. I gotta calculate it right now.

Okay, go ahead. Now just principal and interest, not taxes or insurance.

Uh, can— I don't know if you'll be able to see that.

I can't see it.

Uh, I want to see if they can see it. I'm trying to make the screen— we're going to show it on the screen, so It does. $2,300 is the payment. I'm rounding down a little. $1,400 in interest, $901 principal on a 30-year.

All right. So go to your first—

hold on. Sorry, I had extra payment in for $350.

Yeah, you had a payment there somewhere. Yeah.

So $1,900 is the payment, $1,400 interest, $550 principal.

Okay, so go to the first— go to the first month. Do you have it broken down? Yep.

$1,416 is interest, $551 is principal.

Okay, so if we do— and I don't— let me grab— let's do a calculator real quick. Let me get my calculator right here. Let's just do it for the people so they can understand exactly what we're doing right here. Yeah, so, so we're saying payment is $1,967, and the payment is what?

$1,967. $1,967.

Okay, 1967, that's a good year. I had the '67 Chevelle 396. And I'm going to have that before I die if I get my wife to okay that at some point. 1967, right? And what was the— what, what was the principal?

Uh, $551.

So if we put $551, right, divided by 1967, that gives you— that gives— that gives you— that's first year.

That's the first payment.

Yeah, something's not— what interest rate do you put in there?

4 and a quarter.

4.25 on a $400,000 house, correct?

On a 30-year.

On a 30-year. And $14,540 divided by $1,967. So that's about 28— that's, that's 28%. Is that correct?

That's the, that's the principal. The interest is $1,416 divided by $1,967 is 72%.

72%. Yeah, 72%.

Yeah.

So you've got— so what does that tell us? That tells us this, that when you send the check in to the mortgage company, 72% of that check is going to interest.

Yes.

So what are you paying?

Not 4.25%, bro.

You're not paying 4.25%. You're paying 72%. And people always say, well, yeah, Larry, but that's the, like, the first month of the first year. We'll go 10 years down the road.

Hold on, I'll do it. I'm gonna go. All right, so what's that month? What's that, 120 months?

Yeah, 10 years is 120, right? 10 years.

So 10 years, 11 $1,128 is still interest.

Yep.

Let's go $1,128 divided by $1,967.

57%. 10 years down the road, bro.

All right, I'm gonna go to year 20.

Hold on, go year 20.

Let's see, $240,684 divided by $1,967.

35%. You're 20 years down the road, buddy, and you're paying 35% is still what you're paying in interest. Not 4.25.

You know what's funny, dude? I was in the car. My son Maddox is 12. I don't think he was at any of the events you were at. I bring him sometimes. I don't think you've met him.

I don't know. I haven't. I haven't.

And, uh, he's a super inquisitive kid. He likes to understand stuff. I always say— I, I know we talked about this— that Integrity acquired my company, and at 12, and I think he was 8 maybe when, when they bought us, 7 or 8. In the last 4+ years I've been there, not one human's asked me as many questions about how private equity works and how an acquisition works as much as Maddox has. And we have 6,000 agents. Maddox has asked me the most questions by far. So we're sitting in the car the other day, and I'm building a house right now, okay? And, uh, we're, we're in a kind of a temp house that we're gonna sell, and yada yada, and I'm paying cash for the house. And he's trying to understand why. And so he starts asking why, what a mortgage is, how that works, and interest. And dude, I taught him what you just spoke about, and I made him pull up the calculator on the phone, calculate the interest on like— my house is more expensive than my shoes, unfortunately, right?

Not much more.

We're going ahead, but So I'm doing it, and I made him calculate it, and I made him do how much was interest every month and how much, and do the math on the percent. And I was like, that's why I'm paying cash, dude. Like, it just— it's mind-blowing to me when you look at it that way.

Well, they always say, you know, they— everybody says use other people's money, right? But that, that's something that's been— that's been told to us and sold to us in regards to that. But I'm just telling you right now, what if though— now Follow me. Follow my thinking on this. What if we paid that house off in 7, 8, 9, 10 years, whatever that number worked out for? So now, now watch. Now we free up the, the house payment that we can reinvest. We saved all that interest for 20 years. We've saved 20 years of interest right off of that. And we can reinvest that money that we're saving. Warren Buffett says, Mark Cuban says, to the two of the, you know, people out there that most people would know, they said, you know, if you're paying 7% interest and now you're not paying 7% interest, you are making 7% interest. And that is true. I mean, yeah. Well, a lady came in to Warren Buffett. This is crazy. Well, a lady came in to Warren Buffett and she had some money she wanted to invest and she said, You know, it wasn't a lot to Warren, but it was a lot to her. And she said, she said, well, where would you tell me to invest money? He said, well, let me ask you a question. Do you owe anybody? And she said, I got some credit card debt. He said, what's the interest rate you're paying? She said, 18%. He said, ma'am, my advice is you to pay that credit card off because I can't make you 18%. There's no way I can make you. And once you pay that off, John, most people don't understand that you are now making— because that interest is staying in your checking account. Right. Wait a minute. He went one step further and he said, she said, well, that's not what she wanted to hear. But she says, she says to this, she says, well, my daughter has some money. Where would you tell her to invest that money? And Warren kind of laughed a little bit. He said, well, I would tell her to loan it to you because apparently you'll pay her 18% interest and there's no way I can do 18% interest at the end of the day. And that's a true statement at the end of the day. So. Interest in the world of us and what we're trying to do today is killing us. Yeah. And so, I mean, if you— why not build wealth while you're paying off debt? And that's the big deal here because, I mean, here's the thing, pay it— snowballing debt and paying off debt is nothing new. Dave Ramsey's done this. He's, he's a big talking head and all that kind of good stuff. But, you know, his program is like eat rice and beans, cut up your credit cards, and don't have no fun. Well, guess what? That dog don't hunt very long. I'm telling you, people, people fall off that program. Program at the end of the day, but you don't start building wealth until you get everything paid off. Yeah. So what we do, we, we want to help our people to pay off debt and build wealth at the same time. And that's what we— that's what we, we built a whole company on, making that happen for our clients.

I love it, dude. So just out of curiosity then, if you get— which is cool that you help pay off debt— what, what do you— how do you— do you use life insurance, or would you use life insurance for people that don't have a ton of debt that just want to build wealth? What's your thoughts there?

Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I've— of course, when I first started this, I had my own personal clients that didn't have any debt at all. They paid cash for everything, right? I mean, a lot of people do that. And I, you know, I asked them, I said, well, well, you pay cash? And they said, yeah. I said, well, you're— but you're also paying interest. They said, no, you don't understand. I don't finance it. I'm, I'm, I'm paying cash. I said, well, you're still paying interest. They said, no, no, no. I said, well, Wait a minute, wherever that money was, it was making some type of interest, correct? Whether it was a mutual fund, savings account, whatever. When you took it, it stopped making interest and you went and bought whatever you bought, whether it's a car or whatever the case may be. Our thought behind that is that we never want to interrupt compounding interest. Yeah, we want to— you know, the word currency is moving, right? I mean, that's the word currency. It's always got to be moving. That's what money does. It moves, right? It moves from you to me, from me to this person, that person, right? It's always moving. So if I'm going to pay— if I'm going to buy stuff, I would rather run it through the bank, the policy if you will, and use that money to, to, to, to make money while I'm still buying other stuff. Because a lot of people don't understand, John, and a lot of insurance people don't understand this. When you, when you take a loan— and Dave Ramsey certainly doesn't understand it because he says, why in the world would you borrow your own money? Well, number one, you're not borrowing your own money. I mean, when you take a loan, let's say I have a policy and I'm— I was $1.4 million in personal debt, two companies in debt, and because of the principles of Your Family Bank and what we're able to do, totally debt-free. Not because I'm old, it's just because I knew what, you know, this does. Because I got a lot of people got older than me and still got a lot of money in debt, right? But my point, my point was, if I can build wealth and I can use a policy that if I can borrow that money, my money never left my insurance policy. It still stayed there. Cash value never left. I got a loan from the, from the, from the insurance company and they charged me an interest rate, but it's simple interest rate, not compounding. And number one, I'm still making dividends and a guaranteed interest rate on my money as it's building wealth. So I'm still making money by paying off my debt or buying that stuff that I want to buy if I'm paying cash for it. So yeah, that's where the infinite banking world is, is really of using that policy to make that happen.

Yeah. How'd you, how'd you get into it?

Well, when '07 and '08 happened, yeah, we— this, this Nelson Nash, which is the father of infinite banking out of Birmingham, uh, Alabama, this book kept coming across my desk and I thought it was a great idea. I said this a few minutes ago, but there was no system to sell it. It was like, all right, put this money in here and then start, you know, buying stuff 5 years, 6 years down the road. Now you start buying your cars and stuff like that by using— yeah, you become the bank, if you will. The policy be in the bank. You're borrowing the money out of the policy, right? But so I thought, well, people want instant gratification right now, right? I mean, think about this, John. If you're doing something for— if you're selling something for retirement, that's sometimes 10, 15, 20, 25 years down the road before they're going to start using it.

Yep.

So they know they need to do it, right? I mean, but guess what? It's not right here today. Yeah, well, what if we can show them how they could improve their cash flow today? And sometimes we're paying off debt in the first 30, 60, 90 days because we have very, very early cash benefit to be able to do that. And so by doing that, they're building that wealth and getting them out of debt and improving their cash flow, uh, immediately. And I'm not talking about— I'm not talking about people that file in bankruptcy or— yeah, yeah. Or that type of stuff. I'm talking about middle income. I got doctors that work at Mayo Clinic that make $500,000 a year, under eyeballs in debt, but can't do stuff. So that's where we just built our whole company on, and, and showing people how to get out of it. And not only just individuals, but also businesses, and showing businesses how to get out of debt, because that's what I did for our two businesses that we have.

Yeah, that's cool. I've seen— I enjoyed seeing when you and I spoke about the software, the system, kind of the way you build it all. It's pretty neat. Who's your, who's your ideal agent that works? Like, y'all target certain people, or do you—

you know, I mean, one of the great, the, one of the great things about what we do, everybody's a client, just about. I mean, it, it really doesn't matter. I mean, if you get up age 75, the cost of insurance is, is, is, gets a little strange. So sometimes we use a, sometimes we'll use a child or, you know, uh, someone else as the host, if you will. But I, I tell, what's a perfect client? The perfect client is they have income and they have debt. That's the perfect client. Okay, the perfect agent would have people that he knows. I mean, the average person today John knows 300 people. If you— if— I mean, you probably, you know, a lot more than I do too, but the average person out there knows 300 people. And out of those 300 people, I guarantee you 90% of those people out there need two things. They need, uh, to get out of debt, and they need life insurance.

Yeah, true.

I've had— I have had 5 personal deaths, and I— since I started Your Family Bank, 14 years ago, I have had 5 personal people that I know of that passed away with Your Family Bank, the policy. Only 5, which is a good, which is a good thing. We got thousands of thousands of people. But John, the great thing about this, out of those same 5 people, none of those 5 people had life insurance before using Your Family Bank to get out of debt. And because of, they didn't buy it for the death benefit, they bought it to get out of debt. But unfortunately, or fortunately, the way you look at that, they did have the life insurance that was able to pay off all their debts for their family when they passed away. So people wouldn't have had it, but they bought it because, uh, they wanted to be debt-free and get their spending under control. And most— that's where most people are today, especially with the day with inflation that we have today. It's crazy what we're you know, the cost of living, what it's went up to, right?

Yeah, it's nuts. Hey, run the— hey, run— I love the 4.25% rate. Run, run that thing on a whatever today, 7% interest, or you know what I mean? Like, it's nuts what interest is costing.

Well, here's what I do know. It— our average rate, I think, in 2021 was 2.96%. If we look at that, if we look at the rates today at 7%, for a Um, for a $400,000 house, a $399,000 house at 2.96%, you're going to pay about $600,000 total for that house. With the day's interest rate, you'll pay over a million dollars over $400,000— or no, I'm sorry, over $600,000. It's actually $600,000 more in interest. It's crazy.

I just did it.

Yep.

Wild, dude. Insane. So I'm curious, this is, this is a question for me. I see, I'm looking at my team got some stuff from you and you've won a ton of awards. What's the— so Agency of the Year 8 times. What's the Vanguard Club winner? Before I ask my question, what's that mean?

Okay, so with some of the comp— with some of the companies that we do business with, uh, one of the companies that we do business with we started doing your family, that's where I started with.

Yeah.

And, um, when I started with them, I, I went to them and I said, listen, I think I can make this happen. I think I can design this. I think, I think if you can design a policy, uh, to give us really early cash benefit and we can get to it. So I had a company do that, this Mutual Trust, and, uh, that company, we have won, we've been the Agency of the Year every year the last 10 or 11 years, uh, for the MGAs that you— that's for them, the top 5, 4 of them use YFB as their selling system.

Got it.

So a lot of people out— we, we've been copied a lot in the last couple years, a lot. They say that's flattery. I don't know if it's flattery or not, but, but at the end, at the end of the day We're not just a software selling company. I mean, this is something that we do every single day. It's a selling system, and that's why this company has embraced, uh, you know, our selling system and uses that for a lot of their agents to be able to do that. And we've got some other companies coming on board, uh, matter of fact, in the next couple of months doing the same thing.

So with, with that said, obviously agency stuff, what do you, what do you look I had a guy ask me this morning, there's a reason I'm asking you.

Yeah.

Um, you know, obviously you understand the average agent that gets licensed and who they are.

Yep.

You know, um, and the turnover in the industry. But what do you, what do you look for as an agency manager, if you will? Obviously you're a CEO, but you get the point. Um, in bringing someone on board, like, do you have— do you weed people out a certain way, or they're Are there like, can you tell if someone's— I always have people ask if I can tell who the next big producer is going to be, and I'm like, I've definitely not figured that out because it's never who I think, and it's, it's always a surprise, you know what I mean? But what do you— yeah, what's your criteria for bringing someone into the industry? This, you know, whatever it is, 35 years in.

Yeah, I gotta be honest with you, most, most of, most of our world has always been people that have already been in the business. They're in— they've been in— we, we really didn't build our organization on brand new people.

No, still, you know, same question though. I have people in the industry all the time that want to come here, and I'm like, yeah, I'd rather you not work here, you know what I mean? There is some—

yeah, I think, I think the biggest thing, the biggest thing I look for in the agent, number one, are they hungry? You know, I, I think they got to be hungry. Number one, are they teachable? Uh, I have, I have a lot of guys think they know more than me you know, or— and they may do, but they don't know more me in this arena. Yeah. Uh, and, you know, um, I think those two things— and I look for character, you know. I, you know, I like deal— I, I like dealing with people that has character. And unfortunately, in our industry, there's not a lot of character out there today, uh, i.e., my system being, uh, taken care of by a lot of people out there. So where's the character in the world? I don't know. But But, but I think, I think an agent that is hungry, that's teachable— I mean, our system is, is, is, is very simple. It's not hard, but it takes W-O-R-K. It takes work. And some people are not willing to work. And I'm so— I mean, they're lazy. Agents are lazy. They just think and don't want to work. They don't— like the guy a few minutes ago, you said, hey, I just want to make a bunch of money and do nothing. Well, guess what, buddy? Good luck with that. If you figure it out, call me and John and we'll jump on that train with you. You know what I'm saying? But I hadn't figured that dog out yet. I mean, it takes work, it takes training, it takes accountability. I think one of the biggest things that we lose, and I think, John, I know, I know that you're good at this, is accountability to your agents, making them accountable. You know, how many appointments did you have? How, how, you know, How many people did you see? How many closes did you make? You know, what's your number? What's your app count? People can make what they want to make in this business. I just got to back into it. You know, I have agents all the time telling me, well, how do you make a million dollars? There's no, there's no magic beans. There's not. There's the— it's W-O-R-K. There's no elevator to the top. It's— you got to go up the steps, right? I mean, you've got to go through the steps, but that step is seeing people and making those appointments and and taking the nos and turn them into yeses. Yeah, I mean, or you say next. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, I tell people all the time, and our agents, and when we work with people out there, and you can't help stupid people. There's stupid people out there and you can't help them. I'm sorry, the best you can do, you can do, but you can't help stupid people and you can't help stupid agents. I'll tell you this quick story. I, I, I had a I had a guy from, um, even from Arkansas. We did a, we did a, we did a call. We do an all-call every 2 weeks for all our agents, and one of our guys set 15 appointments, made a bunch of sales. And this guy from Arkansas called me and said, do you believe that he really did that? And I said, yeah, I know the guy, he's from Mississippi, I know he did it. He said, I just don't believe that's true. I don't believe that somebody could do that. I said, I said, let me ask you a question. What do you What are you doing? This is Thursday. I said, what are you doing tomorrow? He said, well, I got some things going. I said, here's what, here's what I want you to do. I want you to, I want you to get 15 cards and I want you to go out. I want you to do cold calling. I want you to go to, I want you to go to 15 businesses. That's what I want you to do. He said, well, no, I can't. I got a lot of things to do tomorrow. I said, no, timeout, timeout. He said, let me do it Monday. I said, I said, first of all, no one wants to see you on Monday. There's not a business out there that you walk into that wants to talk to you on Monday. Friday, they'll love to talk to you because they're ready for the weekend. They're happy people. You come to my office on Friday, they're happy, happy people. And I said, you go out there, you shine your shoes, you take some binoculars, you go out there, you pass out the cards. He said, well, I know how to dress. I said, well, that's great. So he did it. I said, now you call me in the afternoon. So he called me that afternoon. I know I asked him, I said, how many appointments do you have next week? He said, I ain't got nothing. I have no appointments next week. I said, do you know how much money you're going to make next week? He said, no. I said, none. You're not making one penny next week. So nothing's more important than this, right? So he called me about 3:30 in the afternoon. I said, how'd it go? He said, well, I just got thrown on my last appointment. I said, okay, well, how'd you do? He said, well, I, I didn't call— I only called on 12 people and I only set 7 appointments. I said, so what do you think about that? He says, well, what do you think about it? I said, dude, you got 7 appointments next week. You had 0 appointments. Yeah. And now you have 7 appointments. You just have to go out there. It's, it's work.

It's work.

But I mean, how do you get to your position, John? It's work. You gotta work. You gotta do it. And there's nobody harder worker than you are. You know, I mean, I know your work ethic. I know what you do. I know where you came from. I've, I've heard that story. You know, it's a huge difference. Listen, when you got nothing and you make something out of nothing, hey, it takes work. It's, it, it's not automated, baby. It's not all— I'm sorry, it ain't.

So especially early, I'm like, man, you know how I learned how to automate some stuff, which not every— we still obviously there's touch points. It's sales and it's people business.

You got it.

Like, I learned how to automate it by doing it manually for so long. Certainly I found pieces that I can make easier, but the, the, the sales piece and the communication piece and the conversations and building relationships and, you know, I mean, like, dude, I don't know how to do that, nor do I really want to, you know. I just, I think it, I think it's a mistake trying to get it too far because I'm convinced if, again, I said it earlier, but if we automate too much of it It's like when all the, you know, people that want to make obnoxious money working in fast food joints and they got all excited, they got raises. And I'm like, bro, now they're— I just read a stat today that I think McDonald's, I think the number was, I think by 2026, I think they said something like 80% of their stores will be completely automated. You know what I mean? Because it's cheaper for them to do that than pay the dipshits to work.

You know what, do you know— I mean, I'm just— I'm going to give you a personal thing on this. Do you know why I don't go in McDonald's today to get something for breakfast anymore? You know why I don't?

I don't. Tell me.

Because I have to go through there and I have to go to a kiosk and I have to put in my stuff, and I don't want exactly what— exactly what they do. I want to change my order and it's a nightmare. I just go somewhere else. I just— you know what, I just don't do it. I mean, I think automation, this AI crap and all, and I I know it's good for a lot of different stuff, but I just think you still got to get out there and make that sale. You got to get face to face or belly to belly or on a Zoom or whatever you need to do.

Yeah, I agree, dude. It's an interesting, interesting dynamic happening right now. I get a lot of slack on social when I post about working a lot. I'm like, well, that's how I made the money I make, and that's how I take care of my family. And, you know, I mean, like, my wife can do what she wants to do, and my kids get to enjoy the nice school they go to, all because I worked. I don't know another path.

I don't— they get them, they get them warm cookies when they go to that hotel. What's that hotel you get?

You remember that?

Yeah, yeah, baby.

We show up at Four Seasons and they do, but that's right, we get them warm chocolate chip cookie. I can't believe you remembered that one.

No, man, I remember it. So no, man, a lot more today. It's, it's, it's good stuff, man. It's good stuff. So how, how do we help people, man? I, you know, our side of the fence is that We want to help agents, you know, make a lot of money and help a lot of people. That's, that's the most important thing that we do. And that, you know, that's, that's, that's your heartbeat. That's our— I mean, is it about the money? No, but, but it is about the money. I mean, you got to make, you got to make a good living doing, you know, what we do, right? So, but you got to work hard to make that happen.

I always say it's not, but if it didn't pay well, I definitely wouldn't do this.

I mean, yeah, I mean No, I agree.

Paid no money, I would— yeah, it's cool that it's the combination of both, you know. For me, I think what drives me is helping. It's all about the kids for me, dude. I want other people's kids to be able to get warm chocolate chip cookies at the Four Seasons too.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I like the agent, but I like the agent's kids way more.

No, I get it. No, I like—

yeah, I mean, what it's done for me and my family, it's absolutely—

I mean, it's all about I mean, this industry, I've been in this industry, you know, a long time, and I can tell you this is better today than it ever has been. I mean, seriously, it really is. And I'll say it has afforded me to travel all over the world. I mean, everywhere in the world I've been, and carriers paid for all that first class everywhere I've ever went. It has allowed me to take off time I needed for all my kids in sports and be at every game. that they ever played because this industry affords to do that. And you make what you want. I mean, the great thing about our industry, you write your own paycheck. You write your own paycheck. It's up to you. You want to work hard, you're going to make money. If you don't want to work hard, you're not gonna make a lot of money, period. Or you can work and work with agents and build an organization too, and that's mailbox money, right? I'd rather have the efforts of, you know, other people than just me, right? At the end of the day.

So I agree. It's funny, when I, when I talk to— when I talk about all these events, I'm going to start using your name specifically now that I know the phone book story. But I talk about a lot like A.L. Williams, you know what I mean, and the company he built with no technology, no phones, no leads, no— just out there working, connecting with people.

I knew him personally. I actually knew him personally.

I remember you told me that.

Yeah, A.L. Williams. I mean Buy term and invest the difference. I mean, he's the guy that came across the table with that. Uh, it wasn't Dave Ramsey, uh, that came up with that. It was A.L. Williams. I know that this is a story about A.L. Williams. Um, he lived in Amelia Island. He had a house down in, on this, on the gated community in Amelia Island. And this lady knocked on his door one day and she said, I want to buy your house. He says, man, well, it's not for sale. And he said, she says, I don't think you understand. I want to buy your house. House. And, uh, she said, you may not know who I am. My name— my last— my last name is Rockefeller, and I'm one of the heirs of Rockefeller, whatever. And, and, and she— and he says, well, ma'am, he says, I don't care what check you got, I'm not selling you my house. My name is A.L. Williams. Maybe you should remember that one of the days.

So I love it.

Here's a guy— here's a guy— here's a guy that was a, was a football coach. He changed it. He changed the whole insurance industry, one man with his 80 people he started. So good stuff, buddy.

Hey, anything you learned from him that you used in the industry? Do you remember? I don't know how well you knew him, but now I'm intrigued if you learned anything specifically from him.

I think, I think, I think I, I, I, I will tell you this. I will tell, I will tell you this. He had I— he had just sold it. I met him, and then not too long after that, AmeriShare was started, which was a kind of a deal offshoot of him. But I learned one thing from him. Um, you got to motivate yourself, and you got to motivate other people. And he was an unbelievable motivator for people, and he was real. And I learned— I learned this. I think, I think I think this is one thing I will take away from him, and I haven't thought about it until you asked me, to be honest with you, John. But I would say just be you. Don't try to be something that you're not. Just if you're a dork, be the best stinking dork you can be, right? And A.L. Williams, I mean, you know, he would— my favorite word was crap, and his favorite word was crap too. So at the end of the day, uh, I think just be who you are. Just be authentic and, uh, be who you are. And I think that's— that, that gives success. I love it.

You are definitely who you are, and I, I appreciate getting to know you, and it's been fun, dude. And look forward to more cool stuff.

Appreciate you, buddy. Appreciate you. I missed you. I haven't been to Cody's events lately, so, uh, I gotta get with Cody. I hadn't heard from him in a while. I gotta get with anybody.

So I'll text him now. His last one before the big one is coming up in Chicago in June, and then his annual one is in July in Springfield, Missouri.

Yeah, so I thought, I mean, I thought I might get an invite to that thing, but I haven't got one yet.

You, you will in a little while. Hold tight.

All right, all right, all right, all right, my friend.

All right, I appreciate you getting on, dude.

All right, my friend. Hey man, be good, buddy. Appreciate you. Keep buying those tennis shoes. Nike love you, baby. Come on. Yeah, baby.

I'm gonna keep selling insurance. How about that? Later, bro. See ya.