How I Made $1.3 Million in 1 Year As A Life Insurance Agent ft. Ashley Colie | Ep54

I find a doctor that I like. She goes, out of my entire practice, you're the only patient that follows everything I tell them to do.

What?

I was like, I can relate. Think about all the people that you interview and bring on your agency, right? What percentage of them follow everything you ask them to do?

Right.

If the answer is more than zero, you're lying.

Right.

What up, guys? John Wetmore back with another episode of Insurance Insiders Podcast. Have a newer— new friend, someone I met recently on Cody Askins' circuit, um, at the NASB World. A baller over there figuring out how to build a nice, nice size team, sold a bunch of insurance, and I know some people over there. So Ashley, welcome, appreciate you getting on.

Absolutely, thanks for having me. Very excited.

Yeah, I'm excited over here too. So she told us it's going to be my best podcast ever.

That's right.

And then also asked if she could ask questions during it. So I said we can do whatever we want because we're in charge for the next 45 minutes. So we can make this anything you want. Um, I always like to make it different, dude. What is— I'm gonna— my first question is going to be, how many of these have you done? How many, how many podcasts you've been on? I've seen you on a couple, but I know you speak a lot. That's obvious.

So I mean, I do a lot of Zooms. I've been doing Zooms ever since COVID and I think the world was forced to go into Zoom mode and learn about it. Microsoft Meetings, whatever you want to call it. But pretty much 2020 is when I started doing a lot of Zooms all the time, every single week. And you had to get innovative. But as far as podcasts go, um, I could say only a handful, honestly. So yeah, I'm in the process. I've had a lot of people say you got to create your own podcast, Ash. So I was like, okay, well yeah, let's, let's do this. So already in the process of, uh, getting that Yeah, I am. I'm so excited. So then you could be a guest on the Ashley Kali Show. I don't really know— what is your podcast called, by the way?

Just Insurance Insiders.

Insurance Insiders. Awesome. Excellent.

You know what I got like annoyed with is there's people in the insurance business making money in the insurance business, but they don't know the first thing about selling insurance, and they kind of pretend they do, and they— you know what I mean? And all of a sudden they like buy fake views and they skyrocket up and they're not really like who they are. That stuff drives me insane.

100%.

You know, how about we talk to people making money in the insurance space that know how to teach it?

100%. But then also, I mean, think about like this. If you had to have open heart surgery— now I know that you're doing the Ironman thing, by the way. I did follow a little bit more about the 75 Hard.

Did you?

Which is super duper cool. Very proud of you for doing that. When is that, by the way?

I just finished it for the 4th time like 3 weeks ago.

75 Hard or Ironman?

The 75 Hard. Okay, I've done that 4 times in the last few years, right?

So, and then why would you not— so you said for a few years you've been doing the Ironman or the 75 Hard?

The, the 75 Hard. I've started doing more like, um, like endurance type events. Okay, like I don't really love running, but it's probably like a necessary evil if you like doing long distance stuff. But I like doing like mud runs I like doing long hikes and then things that are big challenges. So I did like a, um, like a marathon. I've done like hike the height of Mount Everest stuff. I do weird— I don't know.

You've hiked Mount Everest?

Not actual, equivalent. One of the, one of the things I do is hike the equivalent of Mount Everest. I don't actually want to fly out there and do the snow thing and get found by a helicopter in 22 years. Like, I'll skip that piece.

That would not be good.

Yeah, but so I'll go to like, uh, Whistler, Canada, and I'm doing one in Colorado, and it's hike. Like, in Whistler, it's 4,000 feet up and it takes 4 miles to get there.

Okay.

You have 36 hours to do it 8 times, and that will be the equivalent of Mount Everest.

Yeah, holy sugar nuts.

That's this summer. So that's what you see me— all the stuff I'm doing is training for the summer.

You know, think about it like this, where if you are training to do your first Ironman You're going to take advice from somebody that's probably already done it, completed it, and was awesome at it. Therefore, they can teach what they've actually been able to do. That's called wisdom. And I think that so many folks, they try to get into the insurance space, they want to make the money fast. And sometimes it is— could be very fast. I mean, you know, we've seen— I just had another girl, brand new, age 21, came from cartels. Racked out over $11,000 in deposits her first full month. That's pretty— I consider that fast income.

Pretty damn fast.

It is pretty awesome, right? For a 21-year-old, that's pretty amazing. Now, the key element, especially even when it comes to the insurance space, is it's not who we hire, it's who we keep. It's who actually sticks, it's who actually stays. And those are the people that, gosh, I mean, you can stay in the trenches with them, but you cannot teach what you have not done. I even had to say no to my brother My brother's like my best friend, love him to death. And I remember him saying, okay, Ashley, I'm just going to do this part-time, but I want to build because it's, it's almost like when people see your success, but they don't see sometimes the struggle and the sacrifice that goes behind it. And I remember him telling me like, I don't want to do the insurance thing. I don't want to go, you know, sell insurance policies and stuff like that. I just want to go build an empire.

Yeah.

I'm like, you're not going to build an empire if you don't start from the bottom. Because that's what allows for respect to happen when you actually do it and you actually do it with your own hands.

It's really hard to build it otherwise. It's really hard.

100%. So I— it's the same concept. I'm not going to take advice if I'm going to run an Ironwoman. I don't know if they have that or not, but I'm going to take advice from someone that's already done it. Not like— you wouldn't take advice from a broke person when it comes to your financial success, would you?

I mean, unfortunately I have in my life, and that's why I was broke so long. I didn't realize how simple a concept that is till I was 35.

To be clear, I was actually, um, I'm looking forward to reading your book, by the way. Um, John Wetmore, okay? Because again, you know, we just recently, you know, met, um, I guess what, maybe 2 months ago if that, and, um, and then met I think what, 2 or 3 times, uh, as a power player with Cody Askins. And I'm so intrigued by your brain, and you do so well with people. I think you're so bold. What made you write a book? Like, how cool is that?

I, um, one of the things that I enjoy doing is like hard things.

Okay.

I just like doing hard things. They're hard for me.

Okay.

Now what I've learned is every time I do something hard, there's other people around me, like say the endurance stuff, and we could use the book analogy too, I'll use both. But the endurance stuff, most times I do that, they look at me kind of like how you looked at me, like, holy crap, you're crazy, right? That's a lot, hiking that much, running that much, Ironman, whatever it is, right? Most people are like, that's not the norm, oh my goodness. There's usually some kind of like, I couldn't do that type of thing. And I'm like, well, one, it's a lot of work, but two, the craziest thing I noticed when I get in those environments Like, when I did— I did this one. I'll give you a specific example. Last weekend I went to this event. It's run by this dude named Chad Wright. If you haven't followed him, you should, if you like crazy people that do big things in life. Um, he runs in circles with like Jesse Itzler, if you know that guy.

Okay.

Um, anyway, he has this event. It's on a mountain, steep as shit. It's an 8-hour event. You have 8 hours to do this 4-mile loop as many times as you can in 8 hours. Okay, it's just— it's so— it's not really a race per se. It's just like, do the best you can. You're supposed to push yourself. So I do it. Long story short, I— to me, I bust my ass. I do it 6 times. The guy who won it did it 11 in the same time. Yeah, like when I go to these events, I'm like, every— most people in my world are like, oh my God, you're in such good shape, you do this crazy— but when I get in that event, dude, I'm mediocre. I ended in the middle. I did. I was nowhere near 11, and the worst one probably did it once. You mean I'm like— but to me, it's stretching me. And then I get— when I stretch me, I get around other people who go like, actually, it's, it's not really that impressive. But like, not in a mean way, but it's like, you can actually push more. There's way more. And same with writing a book. To me, that was very difficult. I don't have like the biggest vocabulary on planet Earth. Um, I don't, and I'm okay with it. I like me. I like the strength. To me, it was a challenge. I had a lot of people over the years tell me that I had a good story, which I'm not confused, like kind of being broken, not being broke is exciting to a lot of people. Um, and a lot of people over the years were like, you should write a book, you should share that, you're good with people, you communicate well, you tell good stories, all these things. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, I'm not the guy to write a book. If you know me and my background, I, dude, I cheated all through high school. Any book report, I read the back and I just made it up. And I just sat there and I put it off because it seemed hard.

Okay.

You know what I mean? But I'm like, after 10 years in the business, I'm like, I know, I know a lot. I know I can help people. I have helped a lot of people make a lot of money in the space. But the only reason I didn't do it was because I was limiting myself and believing that it was hard. You know what I mean? So I was like, Well, you do say on video you like doing hard things a lot. This keeps coming into my life. I should probably take action on it, right? So one day I paid $20 grand and found a publisher and pulled the trigger, and I started, I started the process of writing the book. And it was, it was a, it was hard, but it was— thank you, bro— it was super cool to go through and finish. And, you know, it was more about that. And again, for me, the ancillary was hopefully people who don't really know me read it and, and get get, get tips from it to succeed in their world. And that's happened like crazy. It's wild what it's done. But it was just a challenge to myself, quite frankly.

So then what's the next biggest challenge, man?

Um, this is— you're smooth over here. You're turning this into an interview for me. Your, your first podcast is actually on mine.

Thank you for being my first special guest appearance. Very grateful.

Um, Right now it's partly in my physical world. I'm in decent shape, um, but internal, everything wasn't quite right, you know? And I'm like, oh dang. So I learned that I have to like focus even harder. So I'm focused like on full health on the personal side. On the business side, um, I, I'm— we're working on really big goals of not only building the brand, which helps, um, the agency grow, right? Like, my job is quite literally to help the agency grow. Um, but I also have a lot of things that I do within my own, um, agency as well. We have consulting. I launched coaching this year. I have a software side of the, the, the business that we run different software for the, for the insurance space. And, um, so we're building that too, you know. And I'm trying to help. I have 5 staff now. We're interviewing for 2 more positions, and I want everyone on my team to be making 6 figures. Not just Amanda. And now I have two that make that. Amanda makes multiple six figures, um, and I want my whole crew making that kind of money, right?

Amen on that one. When you say, what do you mean by that? You talking about like your identity, your character?

When I say what?

When you said internal, that you were working on your internal.

Yeah, like meaning like, again, you can appearance-wise go like, oh, he's in pretty good shape, for sure. Yeah, but when I, when I go do blood work, my cholesterol was high, my blood pressure was high, my my cortisol was messed up, the, all these hormones, dude, I was a wreck internally. Um, and I'm like, so I go to, I go to, I find a doctor that I like and I'm like, is this something I can control? Because I don't want to take meds if I can control it.

Absolutely.

And she's like, yeah, it's going to take a while, but here's what we do. And so she built a plan. Here's what we do. Step 1 is this, step 2 is this, step 3. And I just follow it to a T. And things have improved. I meet with her a couple weeks ago and she's like— she all— first time I walked in, she's like, why are you here? I've never seen someone walk in my office look like you. And I'm— so I explain it and then she tests it. And she go— after I've been seeing her 3 months now, and she tells me my last visit, she goes, you know what's crazy? Because she was always like— she's like, how are the meds going? How are the supplements going? How's it— like in this like negative worried tone, she always asks it. So I stopped her. I said, I said, I have a question. Why do you always ask in that way, like that tone? Why do you always ask me like you're expecting me to say it's really hard what you're telling me to do? I'm like, you just gave me a list and told me this is what I need to do every day, but you're questioning me like it's difficult. She goes, out of my entire practice, you're the only patient that follows everything I tell them to do.

What? Wow. Interesting.

I was like, I can relate. Think about all the people that you interview and bring on your agency, right? What percentage of them follow everything you ask them to do?

Right.

Oh, if the answer is more than zero, you're lying, right?

Yeah.

Does it make sense?

Yeah. Very, very hard to— I think something, especially with builders, I feel like, uh, when you're building an agency There's so many that just think when they interview somebody, everyone's going to be simple and amazing and coachable. Awesome. And it's like, no, we're human beings. We're all complicated.

Yeah, correct.

We all come— I hate saying the word baggage. We just come with life, you know?

We do. Yeah.

That life has so many experiences. But I love what you said about capacity. I think that's probably one of the biggest things over the past few years I've come to realize is that when somebody says this is just too hard, that, in my opinion, is the ceiling of your capacity. And I've come to realize that unless you can take that on, take ownership regardless of whatever happens to somebody— but you've got to break through so that you can experience more, which means that you got to be able to handle more. And I feel like so many people, even especially women— I feel like the reason why you look at this financial services industry, it's dominated by men. And the reason being is because not so much that women can't do amazing things as far as strong six figures, $250,000, $350,000 of six figures, but when you're looking at women in leadership that are making six figures a month, like what I've been doing since 2020, it's, it's very— I don't like saying the word it's hard, but it's because rare. It is rare. I'll tell you why. It's because You've got to be able to master your emotions and master your logic. But then behind it is almost understanding. Never forget where you came from. Humility. And I think so many people, you know, pride before the fall, ego and arrogance. And it's like you always got to have that nice piece of humble pie and remember where you came from.

Why? Why? Why less women, though? Why do you think? Because I feel like what you just said, like the emotions and the— I forget how you worded it exactly. I'm like, oh, I had to, I had to learn all that.

Yeah. You know, honestly, I think that, you know, men, they were, they were built to speak or to think on logic. Women are more emotional creatures, but you've got to be able to not be ruled by your emotions, and you've got to be able to handle both. For example, um, I coach men, and so we have a lot of men on our team. I've got about 165 agents on my team, and I've had to study men. I have had to study how a man thinks so that I can be able to relate to them on a level of a coach. And I understand that men want to be respected. Women, they just want to be appreciated. And you, you understand this world, and everybody is very different. So I have to teach a lot of my men on the team that have teams, hey, um, we get that you're logical, but I kind of need you to tap into being a little bit more vulnerable, a little bit more real, and kind of share those feelings as to what's really going on and, and be real with me, um, if you ever want to be able to relate to the what, to ladies on your team. You want both. You want a diversified team. So, um, obviously with the same internal compass of character. That's what I was—

I've never heard someone have to do it the other way.

What?

Like, I've never heard of— I've never heard a lady be like, I have to do it this way because of dudes. And I've never heard you— I've never heard that said that.

Yeah, absolutely. And then I don't know where— I've come to realize, I don't know when, like, you experience potentially like a tipping point in your business But I feel like whenever you hit that tipping point where you can't stop the growth, something happens in a leader. I feel like where you become unapologetic, you're proud of who you are, you know who you are, and therefore you are just dead honest. And I think that's one of the reasons why, you know, whenever I met a lot of the power players— or players— whenever I met a lot of the power players, but when I met you I was like, this guy gets it. He's got the leadership behind him, but he's bold, he's courageous, and he's unapologetic. In other words, you know who you are, and then you also know who you are not. And I feel like that's such a strong thing in leadership, is to know who you are and then also know who you're not. That the same person I am in front of my kids, the same person I am in front of my family, business partner, it's the same. It's the same.

So do you, do you, do you, do you teach agents that early too, in the sales side? Because I feel like that helped me sell a ton, that, that transition of what you just explained. I remember that change in my life. So I'm curious if you— do you bring that all the way back to your agents in the, in the sales situations? What up, insurance agents? If you're looking for a roadmap on how to win in this industry, check out the book I wrote about a year ago, Do More Now, Get Better Later. Check out the reviews here somewhere, my team's putting them on. I'm getting tons of great feedback about all the people it's helped. Appreciate those of y'all that bought it. Appreciate all the reviews that are going out. If you're new to following me or the industry, check out the book and get it in your hands now.

Yes and no. So in my world, we are in Simplified Final Expense, and our target market is seniors, so between the age of 45 to 85 bracket. So yeah, I think it is a little bit different with seniors because if you want someone to like you, you've got to like that person. And I remember, I don't know if you saw the same study where they did a study about what makes people popular. Have you heard of that study?

No.

Oh my gosh, it's so crazy. Like, the number one way to allow people to become popular, it's not go play sports, it's not go be a cheerleader or a football player or look good. No, it is straight up The people that are the most popular in high school or in life, whatever you want to call it, it's the people that like people. The people that like people are liked back. This whole concept of reaping what you sow. You know, you sow gratitude, guess what? You're gonna reap it tenfold. And I've always had that concept that you're gonna reap what you sow. So I'm gonna sow kindness, but I'm also gonna sow— I'm gonna sow boldness because I want that back. And I think especially when it comes to women, they're people pleasers. And so was I. And you have to learn, just like discipline, routine, you've got to study this stuff. I was passive-aggressive. I don't know, were you ever passive-aggressive?

Yes.

Okay, are you still? Just kidding, just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah, right.

I'm just aggressive now.

Nice. Okay. Yeah, like I was passive-aggressive and I didn't know it. And that was— that's a very difficult thing, is when you have a blind spot but nobody is freaking brave enough to sit there and tell you what your blind spot is. As a coach, it demands out of us— it is our responsibility to be honest with people's blind spots if they give us the permission. And so therefore, I remember my coach Jordan Smith— I don't know if you know him or not, phenomenal gentleman— and the dude straight up told me many years back, he said, Ashley, You're passive-aggressive. And I was like, why haven't you told me? This is money right here. This is such money, right? Um, you said that you started running Ironmans 2 years ago, correct?

The endurance stuff. I've never done an official Ironman, but yes, the endurance stuff's been 2 years.

Yeah. Okay, so probably the person that you were physically 5 years ago would not be able to do an Ironman tomorrow, correct?

Dude, I couldn't even run a half a mile. 5 years ago, right?

It's the same reason why you don't give car keys to a 2-year-old to go drive a car. Yep, it's the same concept when it comes to— it's like, um, I wasn't able to handle the truth in the beginning. That's why Jordan waited for years, is because my capacity wasn't there. And I think that's why it's, it's so important as a coach to study and to understand people. If you like people, people are going to like you back. And that's part of the value that we give when it comes to sales, in any sales, period.

So do you think that was it an epiphany, like, holy crap, I didn't know that? Or do you think looking back you knew it but you sort of ignored it when other people maybe told you along the way? No, I think I was like, maybe were you not ready to hear it at the time?

Definitely wasn't ready, nor would I feel like my response to it But I felt like I was in that moment of, okay, when he told me— I've always been open to feedback. Yeah. And, um, especially if someone's going to be brave enough to tell me the truth. He's got my best interest at heart. I trust him. If this one stupid characteristic is holding me back from being ridiculously successful, I need to change it. It took me a year, John, to absolutely gut that darn passive-aggressive sarcastic person out of me. And I feel like a lot of people, it's almost like you're a product of your environment. If you grew up in a household that was sarcastic and somewhat passive-aggressive, well, it's going to be probably a part of you too. And, um, so yeah, I get it.

Do you still have to fight to not be that?

Not so much.

Go away completely?

No, it really did. It went away. Cool. Um, definitely went away for sure, 110%.

That's cool. I had, um, and you'll— the more you learn the story, you'll, you'll hear this and certainly read it because it's in the book. Um, I had a mentor of mine. I was like, I was really abrasive with people, like I cared a lot, but the directness you see was always there.

I've always had that, right?

But it was like I didn't know how to land it properly. You know. And this guy, this dude Mike, one day tells me— like, a lot of people are quitting me. I did hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of interviews the first couple years and had no agents. I think I mentioned at the last talk that piece. So he comes in one day, I'm probably complaining about it or something, whatever it was, and his, his answer to me was the part I remember. I don't remember how we got there because to me it was just another day, but his response was, bro, you have no bedside manner. And I was like, now I grew up in Boston, I ain't from the South, I never really heard that term. It's obviously thrown around a lot, you know what I mean? But at the time I was like, wait, what? And I was like, and I thought about it for a second and I go, is that you telling me I'm an asshole to people?

Wow.

Yes. I was like, damn, for real? Because to me, I didn't under— I didn't see it that way. I'm kind of— I can be oblivious to stuff.

Yeah.

So I like when people are like, hey dude, and they just tell me. I prefer that than beat around the bush personally. But I found that that's not always the way to deliver a message.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and I had to learn that. Like, I had, I had a lot of care for people, like a ton. I actually want people to win way more than it shows, or showed at the time. Yeah. But when I would be like, when they weren't doing the right things, I'd punch them between the face.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And they didn't. I was like, oh, so I made people feel a certain way. And I was like, oh, so what I'm, what I'm, what I'm seeing is not incorrect. But the way I make them feel after the conversation is the problem. He was like, there you go.

Wow.

So it's like, you got to learn how to kind of connect those dots.

I think that when you think about it, isn't that all sales? Yes, that emotional connection. But dude, check this out. It's so— I just did this talk on stage in front of 2,000 people, and it was, in order to have exceptional experiences, you've got to be able to have unreasonable value where you just can't even explain it. And so, for example, I'm really big on creating experiences for my agents, and the reason being is because I'll It's how I make them feel. And if you make somebody feel appreciated and valued, which is— I still do— I don't understand to this day, because I was a Gold's Gym general manager, and I was in that field for about 7 years in Gold's Gym. And gosh, would I be— I would be treated like straight dog poop, okay? And it just blew my mind. Like, if you want the best out of me, why would you treat somebody like this? Like, I do not respect you, you know. And, um, I just remember all these instances happening in my life where it shaped, I guess you could say, the definition of who I was when it came to being a leader and who I wanted to be remembered as. Because, I mean, that's really what matters, um, is everybody else, right? How did I make somebody else feel like they were mattered in my presence? So I mean, I kid you not, I was researching this thing. Um, have you ever read the book Unreasonable Hospitality?

Dude, it's— I talk about it with my staff all the time. I got to see him speak actually.

Oh, so good.

Oh, I got to watch him live at a Patrick Bet-David event speak on it. He's phenomenal. It's one of the best books I've ever read in my life, for sure.

Yeah, so, and that's where I got, you know, like, hmm, unreasonable value, especially when it comes to Why is it that when I go out on the field, you know, again, I only go out in the field if I field train. And, um, but why is it that my closing ratios are so strong? And it is simply because, if you will think about the person and how you make them feel, and it changes the whole game for people, that it doesn't change just because you're activating your sales persona. It's in every day, whether you're with your kids, your spouse, your friends, your family. You want to be able to articulate these almost these patterns of, um, what is it, repetition. So in other words, remember in the book where it's like, okay, if you're trying to create exceptional experiences in sales, let's say, with your clients, what's something that you do every single time, whether it's at the door, whether it's inside the presentation, at the close, What's something that, you know, every single time plugs in this unreasonable value with your client? And then now go do that over and over and over again. And so it's just those little things. Like, for example, I bring a snack bag and I teach my agents this. Like, people love food. I'm in the South. So, John, like, people love food. So I just remember, hey, I'm going to bring a snack bag. And hey, you know, I do the door approach, knock, knock, knock. Hey, Miss Johnson, Ashley Kahlid, Senior Benefits down the road. So sorry I haven't come and seen you sooner. I'm your local benefits coordinator, state licensed. Hey, I'm going to go grab that information you requested, drop it off with you, go with you. Here's that snack bag. Go ahead and grab something for you and your spouse. I'll be right back. Who doesn't love food, right? And DoorDash. DoorDash in a heartbeat. In a presentation.

Oh yeah, I like that. I knew a guy that used to call every client. That was his first one anyway, early ones, and he'd offer to bring them coffee.

Oh yeah, all the time. I mean, I'll actually, um, what we also, when it comes to like if you're in-person sales, let's say, right? Even if you were telesales and you close a sale, what's something that you mail them so they feel, wow, I don't have any buyer's remorse? For example, um, uh, when I bought my Corvette, um, it's like a little Batmobile. You should see this rascal, it's so cool. And, um, It's amazing because I only go to this one car dealership because of the way they make me feel.

100%.

And they sent me this big old basket. But I kid you not, I remember, um, I just got the Cadillac Escalade IQ'd. Have you seen that?

I saw. I was gonna ask about it.

Yeah, it's literally the best SUV. Um, it's pretty much the SUV for my kids. Okay. Um, they prefer that sucker than the Corvette. Um, it's so much fun. It's, it's like a spaceship. It's so quiet.

It's like you're driving the electric one. Is that what that is? We have an Escalade. I don't have that one though.

Just go test. Okay, but you gotta look at the Luxury 2 Cadillac Escalade IQ.

Okay, I love it.

Game changer for your kids. Just have them, uh, because you have 3 kids, right?

I have 5.

You have 3 kids?

What?

How old are they?

All right, you ready to be surprised again? Oh my God, youngest or oldest?

Well, let's go with the youngest. And what are the names?

13. Okay, Maddox.

Okay.

And then 17, Brayden. Oh, I got Gabby is 18. She just went to college, she's freshman. And then TJ is 25. He'll be 26 in a couple weeks.

Okay.

And then, uh, Shaylee is my oldest. She'll be 31 this year.

No way!

Yeah, I was a baby having babies.

That is so awesome. And it's like 30— 13 to 31, y'all gonna have some more or what? You're done? Okay.

I've never— like, we talk about it sometimes. Like, she— we can't technically. We probably could figure it out. Science could probably make it work. But like, my wife, my Steph, had, uh, she had breast cancer at 40. So then she was on meds. And so when we were in the stage of talking about second one with her, because I only have one with Stephanie, and after previous marriage.

Okay.

Um, and then we couldn't, and then I got whatever, you know, chopped off, whatever, the vasectomy, whatever it's called. And then it's like, they can still do it, but it's like, she's 40, it's probably too late now. And I've never lived an adult minute without a baby. I don't know what that's like. I've never been an adult without a kid, so I'm kind of like looking forward to see what that's like.

Yeah, seriously. And having a um, I love that. And go— you said her name is Stephanie?

Steph, my wife.

Oh my God. So yeah, so what ex— how did that experience change how you look at life, her going through cancer?

It was a lot. You can read about in the book too. It was a— it was a— it was not the perfect time in our marriage either. There was a lot going on then.

Yeah.

Um, there's a whole chapter, the chapter of resilience is about her and my mom. It's not even about me. Huh.

Wow.

You know, like, she, she had to go through— she had surgery and then had to do, um, radiation. She didn't have chemo.

Okay.

And, uh, well, when she did radiation, she did it for whatever it is, 20 visits, whatever, 6 weeks, whatever it was. She didn't like miss a day of work, so she'd leave work at her lunch break and go do radiation.

Wow.

Yeah, I mean, and then like, you know, you get agents started and like, my cousin has a cough, I need to stay home. You know what I mean? I'm like, wow, F you. She's kind of a badass and she puts up with me, you know what I mean? And like lets me do my thing and live my life. She takes care of me and she's a beast.

Wow.

She's young and healthy too. First mammogram, she found out.

What?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, wow. Can't wait to meet her.

She sounds like something. Yeah, she's a boss.

And congrats on 5 kids.

Yeah, thank you.

Sure, that's very, uh, crazy. Crazy.

That's crazy.

But it's because I've got— I've got Chloe, she's 10, and she's my little sassy press. I always thought like, nope, there's nobody more sassier than me. And then I have my daughter.

You got one?

Yeah, that's right. And she's—

what happens?

Yeah, that's right. And then I've got my son Christian, he's 14. And, uh, he's my little jiu-jitsu guy, and he just go through driver's ed this week. It's so weird. Oh, it's so odd. It is weird. You know what I hate? Let me tell you what I hate. Um, probably I would say deepest, darkest fear, and it was crazy because I will actually give you a prompt on ChatGPT. You do use ChatGPT? Okay, cool. So I'm gonna send you a prompt, not right now, I'll send it after the podcast. It's gonna blow your mind. Okay. And I hate— I hate— because it's almost like this race against time, you know, people are like, oh, you know, Ashley, you do so much. How do you do it all and be able to stay sane? Because I am on a race against time and I want to squeeze out every experience with Dustin, my husband, with my kids, my business partners, my family, best friends, all that stuff. Right. And time management is a huge skill set to be able to master. But it was crazy because— and I wanted to ask you this question. Ready? This is crazy. All right, so when I asked ChatGPT what my biggest, darkest, deepest fear was and then like unravel it 76 times, it was weird. This is crazy.

You asked what yours was?

Yes. This is why when I send you the prompt, you're gonna read it with Stephanie and you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, it might even bring you to tears. Okay, check this out. So mine said that the biggest, I guess you could say, uh, fear is, um, being irrelevant. And I'm like, what?

Really?

Not that you do all this work, but did it matter to somebody?

Yeah.

And, but then it, it went a little bit deeper and it was saying how I look at progress as worth and I look at momentum as value. And I was like, oh my gosh. And it's so true because that's something I'm working through currently right now. It's not so much being able to be still in the moment because I'm— I've mastered that because I, I always do like a one word every single year that I focus on. Uh, this year is disciple, you know, but a couple years ago was be still and just be still in the moment with people and not worry about what's happening next. And so what do you think about that when it comes to progress is not your worth, and momentum is not, you know, how valuable one is. Like, you know, the more momentum that you have, the more valuable you are, but the more progress you have— it's like, it's not this, when is it enough, just enough.

Yeah, it's an interesting balance, especially when you scream do more a lot. Yeah, I mean, but like, I, I can do more, but right, like, I'm in a phase of life now where I I spend— I do more time during the day like chilling and go to the gym. Like, I work out hard when I'm at the gym, but like to get there I want to like slow roll there. And then when I'm done, I want to be able to like chill and eat breakfast and hang out with Steph for a little while. And yeah, I mean like go to the sauna. I don't want to like go to the gym and run to the next thing. So although I do believe in getting a lot of stuff done. Um, I've learned to also do a lot of things that I like doing, right? There was a phase in my life where I only— I had to work, right? And that was a long phase of my life, you know. And sometimes you can get caught— like, your identity can kind of become your, your job, your career sometimes, you know. And I hear a lot of people talk about that, so I try not to get caught in that. I'm a little obsessive type person, so if I don't pay attention I can go down a rabbit hole and get lost forever. Yeah, like just focusing on something right, wrong, or indifferent. Um, so I have to be super aware of it. And so, right, like I did this whole exercise last month with my team where I revamped my whole schedule. And I'm, I'm a big schedule guy, like I, I know my schedule. But I read, um, you read Dan Martell's book yet?

Yeah, Buy Back Your Time.

Oh dude, oh, that was so good. Yeah. When I read his chapter, he was like, he was explaining— if you remember the one where he's talking about calendar in your day, and he's like, you might start out with a training call at, you know, maybe you go to the gym and you work out, and then you, you know, go to the smoothie place, and then you have an 8 o'clock call with a coaching client, and then you have a 10 o'clock podcast, and then you have 11 o'clock with staff, and then you have another coaching client at 2, and then da da da, and then at 5 you with your family. And he explains it all, and I'm like, oh, that's my schedule. Home run. But then at the end, he was like, basically, this schedule's trash. Yeah, right. That was like his— the gist of it. I'm like, oh, I'm reading the thing thinking I'm doing it well. And just the way he explains it is to time chunk it even more and go like, so now we took— what we did is we looked at my whole schedule from February, looked at everything I did, every call I did, every event I did, everything I did for the month of February, and we broke it down into categories. And then I went, what if I only— and I stole it from Dan's book. It's like, what if I only did podcasts, for instance? Like, before, when you booked it, you only had a couple options, right? That's because of that book. Where before, it would be like any day between 10 and 4, right? And to me, that was controlled. He's like, why? And why do you have 76 slots available a week to do one? You know what I mean? So it's like, now you can only book Tuesday and Wednesday between 10 and 12, or 12 and 2, actually it's 12 and 2. I'm still learning it.

Right.

You know, and we took it and it was like, all right, I do podcasts here, I do coaching calls here, I do trainings here, because the mental exhaustion from going from one thing to the other can drain you. And I'm like, I was prideful. I'm like, oh, I can bounce from this to that to the other thing, no problem. Dude, I changed this. And I'm doing the same amount of work, I feel like I don't do shit. The day flows so smooth.

It's amazing, isn't it?

You know, just from a small tweak.

And, and how many of us, even when it comes to leadership, even when you're looking at presentation, I always look at the time because again, that is my biggest thing, is I know I only have a handful of years left. I've got 4 years left with my son until he goes off to college. What am I doing as far as the experiences I have with my son? And I think so many people, they look at their calendar as to, oh, well, it should be only for doctor visits and appointments for business. No, you should put everything. Are you showing up for your spouse? You know, being able to take your parents out to lunch, having that quality time with your kids. I remember I was on a Thank God for the Book with Dan, and I do like his coaching every single week on that Zoom that he's got. And dude is freaking brilliant, by the way. Okay. And just his business mind that he has, it just blows my mind that how many of us just— they bleed in that time and then they say, oh, well, the biggest question I always get is how do you balance being a mom, being a leader, being this and doing this and traveling, blah, blah. And it's like, because I know my calendar, period. And so does Dustin. And I know I don't miss any field trips. We always go to every single field trip from our kids. And we don't miss those moments. So it's, it's crazy. What would you say is something that is one of your biggest, like, things that you're working on now?

You know, I'm always working on something. I am working heavily on building my internal staff team.

Okay.

To have the same I always found that hard, first of all. Like, working with 1099 people to me was easier because I could be more of me, right? Right, right. Eat what you kill. Ah, let's go get them, right? And I attract the good people, the ones that fit me, and I scare away the ones that don't. And there were enough people that resonate with me that I can hire a lot of people. Um, but internally, that's different. They're motivated by different things, you know what I mean? Like, I can't speak to— and I struggled. I had Amanda, you obviously met her. Yeah, she's been with me 8 years. She understands it, and she like gave me more grace than probably should have. Same with Steph. Like, they give me a lot of grace. Yeah. But as we started expanding the internal team, it, it didn't go so smooth. I would get frustrated. And so I learned how to build this agency with not a lot of staff, right? And I would teach someone how to build an agency of, you know, up a million bucks a month and you need one person helping you. And I can, I can map that out and give you systems and put things in place to build it pretty efficiently. And so we had a lot of staff in our team, in our hierarchy. They just weren't on my payroll, you know. And Amanda would train the next person's staff. We had a whole system for it. Well, I keep looking at— I'm like, I really want to build something bigger, but I need a bigger team. So I— me, I have to get better at people I'm with every day, right? And that want to come in and do a job. They don't want to own a business. They, they like, they want to do better in life, but they don't necessarily give a shit if they make a million bucks, right? They don't, they don't need to be independent. They don't, they don't want the same things. And so I'm like, dude, other people do this. Martel has boatloads of employees, you know what I mean? Other— Matt David, hundreds of employees. And I'm like, I gotta get better here. So we're— I'm, I'm over the last 2 years, and I'm still working on it. I just— we just finished the interview a few minutes ago, right before this. And for me, it's learning how to attract the right people for my internal team. And people can be motivated by a lot of things and want to do better, but be an employee, right? You know, and I didn't know how to— I didn't know how to play both sides very well. So internally, I'm, I'm focused so heavily on like having an A-player team around me, not having mediocre people, but also being able to communicate and speak with them in a way that's different than speaking to a 1099 guy who's like if you run twice the appointments, you can make twice the money. That don't work in the employee world, you know what I mean? It's just not the same. Um, so I'm, I'm on a crazy mission. Been doing a lot of studying and reading and personality study, all kinds of stuff to, to build the internal team so the external will grow. Because I can only do so much by myself. I'm one guy.

Exactly.

I need more help. Yeah, you know. And so as we're starting to build the other stuff, it's a different, it's a different build. Than building with a 1099 independent insurance agent. If you're an insurance agent and you feel like you're stuck, you've hit a wall, you're trying to figure out sales strategies, the scripts to use, how to get like off the ground and get to that top of the leaderboard type status, I have a course that I've put out, super affordable. I'm getting a ton of great feedback from people every day on the strategies they've learned and been able to implement, from goal setting to sales techniques to calendar scheduling Everything you would need to get your business off the ground and get running quickly. JWCourse.com. Click the link below and get in there today.

Yeah. So how cool is that to be able to expand? You know, again, just going back to that capacity is, gosh, there's two reasons why people don't get the results that they want, and it's either a people problem or a process problem. You're hiring the wrong or You're not training them right. Your systems aren't correct. And I'm always all about, especially in leadership, is— and I feel like that's another thing too that I see a lot of these up-and-coming leaders, they don't want to let go of control. They want to do everything themselves.

I was that guy.

Yeah, they're stretched thin because they think that they're the best at the job. And you just think to yourself, okay, well, what really are you the best at? And I've come to realize, and I've had to go on this gutting adventure over the past I feel like, I mean, ever since I was 13, but really I've spent more money invested in my character over the past probably year and 3 months and realizing, okay, Ash, what is it that you're really freaking great at? Like, what is the thing that you feel like is a spiritual gift of yours? And I know it's shepherding. I love being able to create unity on a team that I can step away from it, not be the center of attention, but gosh, the center of influence, and just allowing this team flourish. Oh my gosh, it's, it is the most beautiful thing to be able to have all these different types of diverse players coming into a room. They're laughing, they're having a great time, and I'm just on the outside like, this is awesome, right? So I just think, again, if you're struggling out there when it comes to hiring, you just said it, you know what type of player you're looking for, the character of that person. That's everything that I look for is, can I trust you? Do you have grit? How are you going to respond to conflict when struggle hits you? I mean, these are all questions that I ask in an interview for a second interview, you know, and, uh, because honesty is huge. Not 99% honesty, because that's 100% dishonest. Give me— I want to know that even if it hurts, are you going to be able to tell the truth? Give me the person that's able to take the consequences based on the risk that they take, you know.

How do you deal with the letdown of all the people who tell you they're going to do all the things and then they don't?

So if you don't address it head-on, that's your problem, and you're having a problem stay in the mix, and it's going to start creating toxicity on your team.

And how do you do it with an agent, let's say, early? Because obviously a lot of them, they quit everything.

Yeah, let's address it. I'm trying to, you know, find out that, hey, you said this but then you did this. I'm okay with saying it 100% because it's my fault if I don't say it, period. And, you know, again, goes back to that people pleaser concept of, oh well, I'm not going to say anything, it's okay. No, it's not okay. This is your team, this is your front line. This is your— good gracious, your NFL football team, practically. Who's the starting lineup? And if I'm hiring people that don't operate at a standards of excellence, guess what I'm doing? I'm devaluing my systems. I'm devaluing my team.

Yeah.

By allowing this person to continue to play.

So if you get the, the agent that comes in and is like, you know, you tell them they need to run X amount of appointments by X amount of leads, you know, make X amount of phone calls, and here's the level of success you can probably have based on what you say you want to do. Here's what— here's the path. Go do ABC, right? And they don't— they, they do half of A, they do one-third of B, and they do none of C, right? What's that— what's that conversation look like? I'm an agent and I'm— you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm not following your deal. Sure.

I think the first thing is you got to come at it from a heart of assuming the best but preparing for crisis. In other words, I'm gonna assume that something is wrong. You don't— so good. You have marital problems. Something is going on in your life because you're not acting in the way that the person that I hired— what's up, dog? So I'm going to come at this more of a grace, and I'm trying to understand. And I think so many leaders, they come to a conversation expecting that this is the answer versus just being open to discovery, and I love being able to ask questions. And again, I think that's where the whole non-passive aggressiveness comes into play. You've got to be able to go through so many of these experiences and then also understand that doesn't matter if I'm right or this person's wrong. What matters is I can learn from every single situation that happens to me. And I've just come to learn that through experience and through wisdom that let me come at the table and just talk to you. What's going on? And is this consistent? And this— is this what's going to happen for the next week and the next week and the next week, or is this temporary? Whatever's going on, let's go down a real rabbit hole here. What's really going on? Talk to me.

And you either naturally a very empathetic person?

No.

Really? Okay, I'm surprised by that. I would have thought you said yes. Okay. So it's not easy for you to do that then.

I think early on, no.

Yeah.

But, and the reason why I say is because I remember this was about, this was at the end of 2023. 2023 was a really, it was the one year out of 10 years of building an agency that we were behind 5% and I had lost $50,000 in income. But again, you know, some people are like, oh, but Ashley, you made $181,000,000, you know, what was it, $1,181,000,000, you know, in 2023. Yeah, but I didn't care about the number. I cared about the fact that I saw a loss. Are you kidding me? And every single year we've always been 10 to 20 to 43% up. So what the heck? And that's why in 2024 I spent the most when it came to my character and development, because I had— when one agent says it, okay, maybe that's not gonna say it's true or not, sure. But if multiple agents say it— and I remember my agents, a couple of them came to me and they sat me down because they absolutely respect me. And they said, Ash, we just feel like— what's the word I'm looking at— is they said, uh, Ash, you're, you're just being very not empathetic. As if I, as a leader, I feel like I got numb because I felt like in 2023 I was the person that I could solve your problem. You come to me for a problem, let me go fix it. Versus let me just listen to you, let me sit in it with you. And I was that person that's like, if something happened like a chargeback or this leader lost an agent, I'd be like, dude, it's fine, like, next. Versus let me sit in it with you, like, and it's okay to sit here and be like, this freaking sucks, but take your time, take 24 hours, whatever, 15 minutes, curse, whatever you need to do. But we need to, we need to minimize the gap of, I guess you could say suffering if you want to call that.

How long they drag it out.

Yes. Like get the freak over it. Consider it a blessing that this person isn't on your team anymore. And welcome to the world of being a business owner of having what you take a risk. Guess what? You hope to have a return on investment or you take a risk and it plops. Great. Next. It's just like, I mean, I feel like business owners, it's just like failure after failure after failing after failing, but you're not labeled as a failure. That is freaking part of business ownership.

That's why I struggle with agents, like, explaining this thing. I feel like a lot of people think the hard stuff goes away. Yeah, sometimes though, like, they think it's gonna quote unquote get easier. And again, there are some forms where you go, it is— that piece is easier. Like, you do— it is easier to deal with. But I wouldn't say I get less nos now than I got 10 years— I get more nos now.

It's the time. I think that's the difference, is the time of somebody walloping in their depression and sadness versus— I don't know, I guess I'm just that person that's like, like, everything does happen for a reason. And sometimes it's okay that I don't understand what that reason is. I've come to realize that I don't need to know everything nor understand everything. But this person was here for a season, and I'm grateful for it. It allowed somebody to hit a promotion or two or three. Cool, they're not here with us anymore. Maybe they went back to their old job or whatever. Hey, but what can you learn from it? Yeah, you know, so it's interesting. Definitely think on that one.

What's your thoughts on messing up, like making mistakes?

You gotta do that. Yeah, but I say, look, you can make a new mistake, you just can't keep making the same darn mistakes because then I'm just going to call you stupid. You just stupid. Legit, you stupid. Okay, um, and, and sometimes we have to say that to people, like How many times you lose agents after agents after agents, or your closing ratio sucks, dude, why do you keep doing the same thing? Why are you not learning?

Yeah.

And that's why, again, when I had that 5% loss in 2023, that pissed me off. So therefore I don't ever want to experience that again. So what do I need to do to prevent that from happening? And that's a leader. They take ownership of, hey, not blaming this person or that person, it's my fault. What do I need to do? What do I need to bring to the table? And, uh, so yeah, so, and I think it's exciting. I think that's part of the adventure of it. I think if people could just realize that, yeah, the more you grow, to whom much is given, much is also required. That's biblical right there. Um, you're gonna go through hard no matter what it is, period. And choose your heart. Which one do you want?

I can't wait till you read the book.

I know, I'm pretty excited.

We talk about— I talk about a lot of this stuff. We think a lot. Like, even is what stood out when our last meeting was that when you explained the whole recruiting, the way to recruit, you know, that the way— I like the way you did it. But it's, it's funny how many people are more on the side of like, you gotta know everything before you start building. And dude, I was— I bit my tongue for like the first 4 speakers, and Amanda saw it. And then you went up, and I'm like, I don't know what she's gonna say either, I don't know her. And you went down this road, I was like, all right, I like her now, you know. It was, it was very similar, um, in thought process, which I liked, you know, 100%. You've obviously built something. I don't think you can build something without utilizing other people and their resources and warm market and circle and, you know, I mean, talents and all kinds of stuff.

Constantly learning.

Neat to hear.

Yeah, constantly learning.

What's the hardest thing for you right now?

My time. People want my time, and that's the, that's the hardest part, is my time. That's the hardest part, is who gets my time right now.

You had a funny stage for that too. Like you mentioned earlier, I feel like we could do this for like 3 hours, which we obviously can't today. But like when you said something about, like, I forget how you worded it, but like waiting for that point where the business just runs, like you can't stop it or can't slow it down.

Tipping point. Tipping point.

Yeah. Yep. I'm like, ah, you're close. You might feel some of it now, but I think you're more on the side of like if you quit doing your thing, like the whole thing will fall apart sooner. I remember getting to a stage where if I stopped— like, not that I don't want to keep adding value, yes, but mine, I could quit or be fired today and it'll still grow because there's so many good people around now. I know.

Um, I just want to keep creating more value, but very similar to where you are, I've been able to not be run by my cell phone. Yeah, I feel like, you know, a lot of people— gosh, you know, you've got— as you start to grow, especially in leadership, you start to get more text messages, more calls. You've got to be able to level up in your processes every 6 months if you are experiencing, I'd say, about a 20% growth. Every 6 months you've got to change in your systems and your processes and revamp things, maybe your website. But why? Because we're growing. Instead of me doing one-on-ones with people, I'm having to do group, you know, uh, you know, with my leaders. Because why? Oh my gosh, I don't want to do 6-hour coaching. I could do it all in one. Yeah, and then go watch a movie with my kid, you know what I mean? Um, or go ride a bike with them. It's time. I think that broke people, they think about money, and wealthy people, they think on time. And that's Again, it's the one thing I can't stop is time. It's true, it's true.

This was fun. I do this again. There's not a lot of people I want to do it again with, to be clear.

Well, thanks, I appreciate it.

We didn't even talk about insurance, even though we did. Like, we did, but we didn't, you know what I mean? It's like, it's funny, I got a message on my YouTube the other day, um, and someone— it was a single video and it was whatever— and someone was like, I wish they would give more ABCs instead of just this other stuff. And I'm like, you know how important this other stuff is and how easy the other piece is? You know what I mean? It's like, it gets interesting to try to explain that to people and how much we all have to work on ourselves. And then magically the leads get better. And magically less people— there's less objections. And magically more people want to work with you. Yeah, I mean, it's fucking crazy. But people don't want to do the work. And it's humbling at times. It's like, damn, at times. What's funny is you said the thing, it just clicked. I wanted to tell you something. When you said like your agent sat you down, that whole theory, like, hey, you're doing this. I had a guy, a mentor of mine, he taught me this early on, and it was the same feeling I had that you were at. And he goes, do you know what a— do you know what reputation is? And I was like, I mean, sure, but clearly you're about to tell me a new way.

Yeah.

And he goes, it doesn't necessarily mean the thing is right or wrong. It's just what a bunch of people think or feel.

Yeah.

And he was leading to people feel like shit when you're done talking to them. You're an ass— like, you may not be an asshole, but your reputation is.

Yeah.

And it doesn't make it true or false. It's just what people believe. You know what I mean? So he's like, you got to control what they believe. They believe that. If that's not right, you can influence that. And I was like, what? I gotta read some more, I think, you know.

Oh yeah, I think you just never stop growing because, yeah, I think again we were made to progress. And, uh, you know, God gave us these incredible brains, but this brain only has a certain amount of storage. And I feel like so many people, they don't understand that you've got to completely upgrade, especially when it comes to updating your cell phone. It's the same thing with your brain. You gotta deport some of that crap from high school or middle school that you believe some story or some script about yourself, and you need to change the script that you're saying to yourself so you can change the darn story, right? So you can write a new chapter of what you want. I think— I mean, I'm serious, when I sit here and say like it's my responsibility, when I hear an agent even say the word I can't. Dude, that's a cuss word in my household. Like, I'm talking to my kids, you got to say the word yet. Well, Mommy, I don't know how to do that cartwheel yet. That's right, because you're gonna learn how to do it. And it's the same thing with insurance. So, hey, you may not be a multi-millionaire now, but it's yet. Not there yet, right? Um, well, how does a multi-millionaire think? You think like a multi-millionaire, you're gonna become one, because your words, your actions, everything will follow suit with that. And I think— I feel like so many people, they're afraid of uncertainty, which— that's where faith is activated. That if you can step into uncertainty, that's where progress lies. That's where everything that you want lies, is when you step into uncertainty, period.

It's badass. I love it. What do you want to end with? Anything I didn't ask you, you want to share, or something, a message you want to give them? I'll let you pick. Let you wrap it up.

I would say that success is about you, significance is about others, and then to live a life that is fulfilled, that is just— you just ooze joy and gratitude and you're so grateful. That's the place that you want to become. Like, that's where you want to be is— I feel like that's the pursuit, is to live a life that's fulfilled. And I feel like, you know, for me it's— I mean, that's in Christ. I just want to glorify God and all that I do. And I'm just very— I ooze gratefulness. And I feel like if somebody can get into a place that they're overflowing with those things, you're going to change so many lives, um, big time.

Love it. I love it. This was fun.

How about you? What's your ending word here? Come on, come on. What's yours? Come on, what is it? Come on.

Mine is listen to Ashley. She's smart as shit. And I mean, dude, I talk to a lot of people. It's like a lot of people can BS their way through an interview, you know what I mean? And like, when I hear you speak, I'm like, it's real. You ever hear— I'll, I'll do this. You ever watch people— this industry is funny. You ever see people in the industry that maybe get an accolade or 2 or 3 or 400, whatever they get, and you hear them speak and you're like, something ain't right? Like, he don't there was, there was nothing behind those words. Yeah, there was no, like, I don't know that he or she does this. And then some people you hear and you're like, they know their shit.

Word.

Does it make sense? It's like, I don't know, I feel like I'm— I feel like most people that say they build something don't, right? You know what I mean? And it's like, all right, so you actually build something cool. And I like that. And you, you kind of own the pieces you suck at, and I think a lot of us have to do that, you know. Um, so yeah, I think— I mean, I don't wanna— I don't want to step on that. I think that the way you ended it and what you added was, was dope, and you know your shit, you know. And that's a lot of— a lot of— there's a lot of fluff in this space.

Yeah, but I feel like that gets— you get to see that quickly though. I feel like people see that hopefully quickly, you know, right? Wouldn't you say so? Like, you— I mean, you're experienced. Maybe to a non-experienced individual, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah, meaning, are there more licensed people with experience like you or I, or less?

Right.

It's overwhelmingly the 99% have significantly less, so they don't see it. Yeah, you know what I mean? And this, this industry is funny. Um, I love it. I wouldn't want to be in another one. There's so many opportunities and so many dope people and whatever I love is people making money at a high level in every company, every platform, every style, every telesales, in-home leads, not leads. Yeah, it doesn't matter, there's money in all of it. Yeah, you know, but everybody that I know that's done well is, is, is, has done a really good job of surrounding themselves with good people. Yeah, um, that aren't afraid to challenge them, and they're humble enough to go like, damn, I'm just a dude, like I'm out here messing it up every day just like y'all. I just won't fucking stop. And some of y'all stop.

Yes.

You know, and I just— I don't see the mess-ups as failure. I see it as opportunity to get better, you know. And I try to teach my team that, my staff that, and everyone around me. It's like, all right, you made them great. Like, and so many people want to avoid the mistake, you know, and I'm like, wildly chase it.

Amen. Um, that was a phenomenal ending line, by the way. I'd high-five you right through the screen. Phenomenal. I know you can do it. Great job.

I didn't do it on purpose. I said I wasn't going to do it, and then I did it by mistake because you baited me.

That's right, 110%.

I love it. Well, I appreciate your time. I'll let you roll. Let's, uh, let's stay in touch. Let me know if I can help with anything, and appreciate you getting on.

Special guest on my podcast.

Let me know. When is this happening? We'll lock it in now.

Soon, very soon, very soon.

What's soon? Define soon. Oh my gosh, because my son is graduating high school soon and that's in 5 years.

Oh, oh, okay, okay.

Uh, does that make sense? Like, he's, he's 13, he's almost out of my house.

In a month, I'm gonna send you my calendar, which I'm going to take your advice, either Tuesdays or Thursdays, 2 time slots. So they'll probably be identical to yours, potentially, maybe not. And, um, yeah.

So I'll have it. We'll do it in April.

Sounds great to me. Look forward to it.

I like it. I love it. All right, appreciate y'all. Follow us if you need anything, let us know.

Appreciate you. Bye!