How I Made My First Million Dollars in Insurance ft. Marc Meade | Ep10

Don't negotiate with the destination. Top of the mountain is the top of the mountain. That mountain didn't move because you altered your course. The top of the mountain stayed right where it was at. You're going to have to negotiate a lot with how you get there.

What up, y'all? John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Got my dude Mark Mead here, managing partner, Integrity Marketing Group. Killer at FFL Tri-State and all kinds of other great things. One of my favorite people on the planet. I'm excited for this one. No prep, just— it's been a minute, dude.

What up, baby?

All is good, all is good. For those that watch my stuff, they certainly hear me talk about you a lot, my man. But yeah, buddy. Big, uh, inspiration to me over the years. And for whatever reason, when I was a brand new dipshit in the industry, your message resonated with me like no one else's.

Crazy.

Yeah, man, I appreciate the journey. It's been, what, 12? Well, since we first— yeah, 9 since we've gotten close, but 12 years in business and in business together to some extent, right? So love the journey, dude. Appreciate you coming on.

I love you too, man. Love the journey, and, uh, thanks for having me. Um, yeah, I'm excited about what you got going on here. This looks dope.

Yeah, I'm having fun, dude. I'm just out exploring the business, dude, and, and I had to have you. But I, I'll be honest, bro, I've talked to more people I don't know than I do know.

Makes sense.

I'm trying to like navigate it to keep me interested. I love it, you know what I mean? And just see what's out there, dude. Just a big-ass industry, you know, some cool people, some cool people.

It's huge, man. It's just— there's so many different avenues and angles in which you can take in this deal. Yeah, you know, so I like it. We're—

it's funny, the, the bigger we get in this deal, I think— I know I feel I realize how little I am, right?

Yeah, it's good, good perspective.

Yeah, buddy, we've seen some stuff. So give— for those that don't know, dude, I, I, I, I would love for you to share a little bit about, you know, just who you are and maybe how you got started. I know you, you've had success in the mortgage industry. You definitely, in my eyes, were a sales machine. I think in many people's and, you know, led the way in our company when we were nothing, which was amazing. And thankful because I wouldn't be in it if it weren't for what you were doing. And just as good as you were at sales, you also made it really simple, you know. And I wasn't really good at sales, and I was able to copy what you did and do a fair amount of the volume, and enough that I was happy, bro. And, you know, We know our families all know each other very well. So you've seen the change in my world and I've got to watch it in yours. But would love to give some perspective, man, for those that don't know you.

Yeah, well, I appreciate that.

What up, Insiders? John Wetmore here. Quick break, interruption in the podcast to let you know that if you have interest in leveling up your insurance game, getting to a new level, multi-six figures, building an agency, things like that, I did put together a course. That you can get access to. What I'm going to be doing is helping you get to a point from like literally going from zero and/or struggling or just getting started to being able to make multiple six figures. I'm going to go through things like your schedule and goals and lead planning and scripts and very nuts and bolts things for you to implement today. And if you use the code INSIDERS, you get 20% off the course right now. Click on the link. Back to the podcast.

So just a little walk down my, my life journey. I always had an entrepreneur bug. I always wanted to, you know, make things happen. And I started at a very young age, right, like around 8 or 9. I, you know, had the bright idea of creating a lemonade stand, and I learned real quick what profit was, you know, because I, you know, spent $4, made $10. And I told my dad, I said, I made— so Dad, I made $10. He goes, how much was the lemonade? I go, it was $4. He goes, well, you didn't make 10, you made 6. I said, oh, makes sense. And then he taught me how to reinvest back in, you know. Isn't that funny how that works?

Stop it. What'd he do? I don't remember what you got.

He was, uh, he was a hustler. He's, he's, you know, God rest his soul, he's no longer alive. He, uh He had, you know, used car businesses and clothing out of a van, and just, he just, you know, was a New York guy who, yeah, you know, kind of made money, uh, pillow to post, and was just, just understood, you know, kind of the street game of business. Um, and so I, um, took that into, into that and got my first job. I was 13, and, you know, started learning. I just wanted to work and make money, and I had— we were broke, so it wasn't like anyone was— I wasn't— if I wanted anything new, I remember buying a pair of shell-top Adidas for, you know, for my first day of freshman year in high school, and it's because I was working a job, you know, and, um Remember going to school that day with the all-white shell tops with the black lines and some white shorts, white jean shorts and a black shirt. And it's all because I had money to spend. And I, you know, the idea of having my own money to spend, knowing my mom wasn't giving me any and I had none coming from anywhere else, just kept driving me, you know. And I always was making moves as far as like hustling from a standpoint of like In middle school, I sold candy and clothes. In high school, I sold clothes and, you know, buy new stuff and stuff at a discount, buy it in bulk and move it to my friends or my friends' parents. Like, I remember calling up some of my friends who had— whose parents had money and saying, hey, you know, you should, you should buy, you know, your son jeans for Christmas. I got, I got his sizes.

I got—

I know what he wears. I know what he likes. I just, I would do like orders that way, you know, and, um, just really understanding, like, you get in what you put out, you know what I mean? Um, and so the candy business taught me a lot because there was a cost of diminishing returns eventually, you know. $4, um, was 40 pieces of candy at 10 cents a pop. So Blow Pops and Mike and Ikes and, you know, Lemonheads and Hot Tamales. You know, I remember when the blue Blow Pops came out, people would lose it, you know. And $4 would make me $10 because I was selling them for 25 cents a pop. So I'm making 150% on my money in the 5th grade. And, you know, $5 would make me $12.50. And $6 would make me $15, and $17 is where I started— $7 where I started losing money because there's only so many pieces of candy. $6 is 60 pieces of candy. Yeah, if you move through that much candy in a day, the amount of times you've ruffled the bag, ruffled the candy, by the end of the day the Blow Pop wrappers are getting old and the boxes of Mike and Ikes and Lemonheads are getting a little pushed up on. So people didn't have the same desire at 2:30 in the afternoon that they had at 9 AM. And so the cost of diminishing returns was $6 a day. I could not spend more than $6 a day, and I was learning real business strategy technique at a young age, you know, and how to put this stuff into use.

Dude, what's wild, bro, I was having a conversation with Marty a couple weeks ago, month ago, and he was explaining that same exact concept with their spend on ads on their B2C side. And he was literally like, he has a fancy name for it that I don't know how to say, but he was like, at a certain point, dude, we spend millions on ads, we get to a certain point and is no longer profitable. And he explained the whole thing to me in millions, and you just did it with $4.

And it scales. Like, it's exactly what you said, it scales in any business. And so I learned that in our business. Like, I learned that in the insurance business. And I went from mortgages— I wasn't investing in leads, I was, you know, going into an office, getting free leads, and selling. I paid for it in commission.

Yep.

Um, but in insurance I had to buy leads. And so I understood the dynamic of like, scared money don't make money. That's been a phrase I've been using forever. I mean, it's— we use it in Monopoly, we use it in Spades. We use it in Spades probably the most. Spades is the most smack-talking game you'll play, you know. And so you're, you're on the board literally to intimidate and to talk smack and have swag. And so we use the terminology forever, scared money don't make money. And so insurance just made a lot of sense from a standpoint of more money in leads, more activity, more money out, more money into the bank account. That just made all this— it was like, there wasn't like, oh, it clicked. No, no, it was like very simple mathematics.

Yeah.

Now initially, I should say it this way, I had to watch other people do it. And once I started doing it, once I had the confidence to do it, it was like, duh, watching people to learn the math behind it.

Like the numbers, you understand?

Like when people were saying that they were investing, you know, $1,000 to $1,500 a week. Back at the, at the first, uh, IMO that I was a part of, and then watching, you know, dudes issue $30,000, $35,000 in a month. I'm like, that's— that correlation is like, yeah, wow. And so it didn't— it wasn't soon before long that I realized that correlation could work for anybody.

Yeah.

And then I realized like, oh, it's just money in, money out, you you know, and it's like no different than systems, no different than staff, no different than equipment, no different than, um, softwares. It's like it has to work, but if it works, scale isn't— scale should be part of the program. And so that's what I figured out in insurance, and same thing with recruiting and recruiting leads. And, you know, it just became, you know, it's an equation that is different per thing because It's not the same money in— it's not the same money in the business, same money out of the business, but it starts to become extremely predictable, um, as you— as you go.

I've always loved that you're like— I was gonna say very unemotional about the spend towards business, but it's funny, you actually get— because I know you— get more emotional when you can't spend it. You're like the inverse of most people.

So funny. Yeah, man, because, you know, you start spending money, investing money in a business, you realize, you realize quick that the mad scientist game. Like, it's, it's not that scary. It's actually the more money that you can toy with and invest and experiment with, the better chance you have to win. Yeah, so I know that's like counter, you know, intuitive to some people's brains, but I don't know. I, I like—

your odds go up a lot.

I like resources, bro.

Yeah, dude, I remember. I'll never forget, you taught me cash flow in this business, you know. I just— when you exp— I was like, and it's so simple, when you're like, you spend this to make that. Well, why wouldn't you spend all of it to up the top line number, right? And then do it again and do it again and always up, because I can always increase the top line number and then you can manipulate the expenses later, right?

Right?

I was like, I don't— do you remember that conversation? You remember where we were? Yeah, I think we're in, um, Mahigan maybe.

Is that where we were?

Yeah, I remember sitting on a bench, dude. Grilled you for like an hour.

Yeah.

And I was like, and you— yeah, I mean, it was—

I— they—

to me, I was like, oh damn, I see, I see what you see now and the way you see it, right? You know, especially when it came to the business side. I understood it on the agent side pretty early.

I think.

I don't— that I didn't— I didn't know how much you could push it. That I learned from you. I was like, oh, got it, I can push that pretty high. But on the business side, I remember learning what you were pulling in, and I'm like, oh dude, I can copy and paste this and just do it more, you know.

And I think— go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say it was— it changed everything in my world when I unders— I just got to take your vision and see it sooner than I would have, right? You know, and you— again, it was, it was a simple— and I'm like, oh, that actually— so you mean I'm hurting myself by not spending it? Yeah.

And you, you know, business acumen creates the lid, you know, your ability to grow.

Yeah.

And continue to grow in business is what creates the lid, because there is a cost of diminishing returns. The cost of diminishing return is what your brain capacity can handle. Or what the person you brought in brain— brain— the person you brought in, their brain capacity can handle because you might not be a coder, but you bring in a coder and that coder can translate coding language to you in English. And they might be moving this side of the business, the tech side of the business and moving that up fast, which is allowing revenue to go fast. You might not have that business acumen, they had it, you pay them to be on your team. But you're— the cost of the, the law of the lid is where you can't outspend the processes, the systems, and the intellect. That's where you can spend too much, and all of a sudden you go, as you're saying, spend more, get more, spend more, get more. Well, you can't— like, like, like, like Marty said, you can't. If they create a system, John, better technology, better— and this is Ethos, so they're the technology experts— but yeah, a better technology. And they're working on it every day. How can we, how can we build a better mousetrap so that the millions of dollars we spend, we could spend more millions? Because if we can get more output out of more millions, we will spend more money. That's the deal. And so that's, that's where all of this comes into play. You know, that's where your business acumen, your resources, your team, all of that starts coming into play because you can't do this alone. You can't build something sizable by yourself.

Yeah. How do you, um, on the scaling side of the insurance business, or any really if you want to talk about whatever, but talk about like your strategy, your style of like managing all the people. So I've always been super intrigued. Obviously, I brought my whole damn staff up to your office to learn that, but not just W-2, you know, I mean, just like the 1099 guys. Here's where I— here's the part I remember, and I think I've told you this kind of recently. When you were at that stage where we were still selling, just toward it, getting towards the end of selling in the field ourselves and kind of coming out and helping others build. The thing that I loved about your model was you were teaching so many people to hit that Hall of Fame, $400 grand a year paid number. And I'm a tracker, and I was tracking your shit probably better than you were. And I remember, dude, I would keep track of how many Hall of Fame writers you had, and it was on a board in my office. And I'm like, yo, we have to— I'm— I need to beat Mark at this. I need to get better than I am, you know what I mean? And like, you were, you were really good at, I don't know, you know what I mean, figuring out the right pieces to move, the right people to identify. There was something there, you know what I mean, that you had a, you had a high per writer average and you had a lot of people selling a lot of insurance when I was still trying to figure it out. Um, and I know a lot about your people skills, but I would love to hear your thoughts on just all that, the people and the moving parts and all that. Yes, um, did you not know that?

What?

That I was tracking how many Hall of Fame runners you have? I didn't know that. No, you didn't. 100%, dude. It was a mission. I'm like, yo, I need to get— I need to keep up and pass it.

I think, you know, It's funny because there'd be times we're at the annual convention and, you know, people's getting their awards, they're getting their awards, and then the top 10 would come up. And I remember vividly one year, you know, I think it was the year that, you know, we were kind of competing. Did y'all brought them horns into the—

we did.

And I'm like You know, I'm like, yo, shut the show down. I remember standing up and just like— because we ran the top 10. I mean, we had like 7 or 8 producers out of the top 10. Now, I think there was a method to the madness. I think part of it was, you know, part of it was we created an environment that didn't allow for excuses. You know, and I think in sales culture, um, well, I shouldn't say so. I think in business culture, especially today, I mean, you know, I think excuses are, are, they run rampant. And, you know, we all, including, you know, everyone that you dealt with, we had to learn how to be really good at like sniffing out excuses. That, and, and I had to learn it in phases because first I was really like mean about it, like Yeah, you know, we just had this kind of demonstrative culture, and then it was like, all right, we can be more strategic in the way we figure this out where we don't have to— but at the same time, it's like, you have to find people that actually want that, you know, because if you take someone who doesn't want that, you can get them there for a certain period of time, they're going to crash and burn. I've seen that happen a lot. And so I was really good at taking people who maybe believed, you know, 30%, 40% of themselves, and I helped them believe in 80% of themselves. But they didn't— they didn't grow into the 80. They just kind of bludgeoned their way into that 80 for a certain period of time, and they burned. And there were people that were built like that. That's what they wanted. And then there were people that were— that had all the talent but maybe just didn't have the desire to work that hard. And so it's navigating all these pieces of who's who and what's what, and, and then eventually giving everybody their own space to kind of become who they want to become. But for that period of time, whatever, how many years that was, um, those were the funnest— those were the most fun times in the business, you know, when we were really like scratching and clawing and trying to figure it out. 2015, '16, '17, those times were like euphoric. Um, just because it was just so fun. There was so many things we didn't know, right? So many things we didn't know. We were so locked in on production and weekly production and, you know, lead spend and, you know, who's, you know, who's traveling where, how many leads they got, who's got what locked out. Like, we were so in the business, you know, and It's when you come out of the business and get on top of the business that you actually see what scale really can look like. You first have to learn that, right? So we're scaling with what we know how to do, like just eating the clock, you know, just like beating the clock. 16-hour days, 17-hour, like almost like, what else can we steal from this clock, you know? And it's just You know, like, so that was— that's what it looked like. And we just had people working 6 days a week and realizing the power of it and, and just what it meant to them, their, their families, their bank accounts, and the competition of it. And it was, it was fun. So I think it was more, um, locking in on people that kind of really wanted it. You know, and then just kind of helping everyone raise whatever level they could get to. I heard Maxwell say once, whatever you are in a certain area, you can raise about 2 points. So if you're a 4, you can go to a 6. If you're a 6, you can go to an 8. You know, if you're an 8, you can go to a 10 or 9.5, whatever. And so we— we— I didn't have that philosophy, but I had the philosophy that everyone could raise their game. Yeah, and if you— if Maxwell tells me 2 points, I believe it's 4. I believe it's double. So if you're 4, you're an 8 now. And if you're not an 8 in 90 days, you will be. You know, squeeze the juice. We're gonna squeeze that rag a little bit, you know, get you to perform. And it's like— and, and, but I, you know, I had to— there was a price to pay for that too. It's kind of like Because everybody, you know, you gotta, you gotta meet people where they're at and, and kind of figure out what do people really want, you know. So that became the most seasoned approach is when I realized like, all right, okay, you don't want to be an 8, you just— yep, you just want to be a 5. Okay, I'm gonna let you be a 5. Here's what you got to do to get to a 5. Call me if you ever do that. That was liberating. That was hard, bro, but it became liberating. Right? I'm not gonna work with a— I worked with fours to try to get them to be eights. I work with sixes to try to get them to be nines. I work with sevens and try to get them to be tens. And it does work. There's ways to do it. There's ways to kind of block out the noise, look at the calendar, work within the time frames, figure out the, the spouse-kid situation, kind of talk a lot through that. And, and, you know, kind of, this isn't going to be forever, it's going to be for X amount of period of time. And so there was certainly strategy to it and psychology to moving people and pieces, but that was fun stuff, man. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

It was fun, dude. It was a blast. And, uh, I remember when you had that chain. I remember what year it was, '18, '19, something like that, where you kind of became this calm Mark Meade in a way, you know what I mean? It's relative, bro.

You, you were able to articulate.

Yeah. And like show different, you mean like you were more intentional about a lot of it?

Well, I told you this once, we were having dinner in New York and we were, um, and you were talking about the intentionality that you and Mike would use to kind of get through some of the conversations that I struggled to get through. Yeah, because I wanted to be heard, I wanted to be felt, I wanted to be understood. And I'm like, I was talking to a guy one time and he's like, you know, this guy really knows how to be a politician, but you know, it's not my game. I said, well, wouldn't hurt if you got a little bit of that on you. I mean And he goes, well, I just like to be honest and upfront and this and that. So how's that working for you? And you know what I learned is— and I, I learned that, yeah, it's not about being dishonest, it's about play, it's about understanding the game. There's rules to the game, there's rules of engagement, there's rules to the game. In every arena there's rules, and like, you have to learn the rules, you have to learn how to operate within the rules. There are rules. This isn't lawless. These aren't lawless conversations. There's rules. You have to understand the rules. And that— I didn't understand the rules, nor did I want to understand the rules. Because why? I understand the rules. If I'm being honest, I'm honest. You're playing a game with, with some, with some boundaries.

Okay. Yep.

Well, too much honesty sometimes in the wrong arenas, it's not going to get you where you wanted to go. Yeah, you have to understand, you're not lying, it's just ways to say things, and there's ways to not say anything. I had to learn that. And so that blew me— you have no idea how much that statement blew me away. I'm literally like talking to you and I'm like you know, what you guys do this way and you guys do it that way, and but I do it this way. I'm not bragging. I realized I had some faults and I'm trying to learn. You're like, we're very intentional about everything and everything and everything in here and blah blah blah. I'm like, what? Like, in my mind, I might even said it like that. I'm like, I think I might have, like, what? Like, what? And so I'm like, this isn't like beneath me and this isn't above my head. This is just not the way I viewed this, right?

Different.

So yeah, and so I understood, like, okay, there's rules to engagement. And so you can learn the rules to engagement. You could learn— you could start by saying less. Say less, you know what I'm saying? Like, just say less. Because you're gonna learn, hey, you're gonna learn these little pauses and breakpoints and, and, and spoken and unspoken stuff. It's going to start to— if you say less, then everything is heard. Yeah, right. It starts to— because it is going to repeat, and it starts to play. It's like practice. You're now practicing with your ears, not with your mouth. And this, this, this still works, you know what I'm saying? And so now what is happening with the information? The information's here. It's here. Say less. That means you're processing now.

Yeah, right.

And as you're processing, you got to figure out when to insert and when not to. I had to get— that's why I had to get better at that in order to survive.

Yeah, I remember, I remember kind of learning because I struggled with that too, just being— I was, I was very direct with everyone. I treated everyone the same, was probably my biggest flaw. Um, and I handled every situation or every person. I didn't take into account anything else other than what I thought they needed to hear or know. And I remember when I started first like figuring this stuff out with obviously a lot of, a lot of help from Mike. I was fortunate to be 3 feet from him quite often. And, uh, I remember when it— I used to be really intentional. And when someone said something, when I wanted to, like, when someone said something, whatever it was, either different or question, or they were like, I don't know, not tracking with me or whatever. I remember I had to learn how to like physically bite my tongue and do like that, and I, I had to think of a question that would help them understand what I really wanted to say. Does that make sense? I wanted them— I wanted, I wanted to click for them versus just them hear me. I wanted them to process, you know. And dude, when I learned that, when I got people thinking like you're thinking, or it's a wrap, because then I could control the question and do it in a way where I got them to— because I learned what I say and what they hear were so different. Yeah, right. And that became like a fucking superpower, dude. And then I learned analogies and stories, and you know what I'm saying? It's been a— it's been a journey, dude.

Oh, The Rules of Engagement.

I love it. I need to write a book. I feel like there's— there's— I feel like there's some kind of book like that, but I feel like you could write one. Called the rules of engagement.

I don't know, we'll see what happens.

I know, I know. Hey, for clarity, but again, I'm gonna go to those that don't know because the, the sales side— what's— do you know how much life insurance you've sold all the time? Or you most— I know you know the most in a year. It's been millions for sure. Yeah.

After a while, I just, you know, I don't— I didn't think about it, you know, because I didn't— I sold in combines for 6 years, um, you know, at a high level, you know. I remember, you know, um, early on in the business hearing a quote, hearing a quote from Sean. He said something like, you don't need to sell 10,000 a week for the rest of your life. You just have to sell it long enough that nobody forgets you did it.

And does that make sense, bro?

You just— that just clicked. Did that just click right there? And it's like, you know, um, being able to, uh, that was still hard, you know, coming out of the field, but The idea behind, like, what more can I do, you know? Yeah, here with this, it's like I needed to kind of move into management and leading 24/7, knowing that that was going to be its own learning curve, you know? And I needed to kind of really— I had enough coming in where I needed to really start on that path and like learning what that would feel and look like, and, you know, the mistakes versus the successes. And you never really figure it out, but you get, you get on a path, and the path, you know, led to more success.

Yeah, I think it's funny, the people that are afraid to make the mistakes, you know what I mean? And I'm like, dude, if you heard some of our conversations offline over the last however many years, bro, we mess up a lot of stuff. It's hard, you know what I mean? Like, I don't— I think people think there are pieces to it certainly that get easier, obviously, you know, but there are pieces to it to get harder, right? That's what I'm—

yeah, man, for sure.

Yeah. What's, um, what's been the hardest in the journey for you, you think?

Hardest part of the journey probably be You know, after selling, after selling the business, um, it was hard but fun. It was scaling what, uh, you know, scaling it from $1.3 million a month to, you know, $10 million a month, right? Yeah, there was so much we put into that, and, you know, effort, time, energy, um, intentional. I mean, God bless. I mean, just pouring and pouring and pouring out and creating new systems and, you know, creating new opportunities and going, but not so about recognition. And just the amount of work that it took to to, you know, to do that. And it was multiplication because it was through leaders, but it was still— we were, we were championing it together and kind of just taking this thing by storm, taking good leaders and making— helping them become great leaders, um, and taking average leaders and helping them become good leaders. But it was a lot of work. I think that was Very gratifying. Uh, not as fun as the time we talked about earlier, but fun, but hard work.

Yeah, very different.

Very different.

Very different. It's crazy. We'll never— I don't think we'll ever have that time back. Clearly we won't, but I'm just saying that feeling, you know what I'm saying? It's like we were so raw. And had no idea what the hell we were doing most of the times, you know what I mean? Just built something. That's— man, I do miss that, bro. Just the blind, let's figure it out, go. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a stage that changed all of our lives forever, right? I mean, looking back, I don't think we knew it then where it was going to lead at all. I know I didn't.

Oh, definitely not.

Man, I feel like, I don't know, it's been good times.

Okay, heck yeah, it has. What's your—

what's your talk about your thoughts on— you mentioned recognition. You're really good at it. Um, talk about the importance of it, how you do it, how you keep up with it, because I feel like I kind of suck at it, dude.

Well, I think that, you know, you have people that are you know, risking what they think is it all. They're risking it all. Let's go with just they're risking it all, right?

Yeah.

They have their spouse in, they have sometimes their kids in, they have their bank account in, their finances in, their credit card in. They have fear, um, and they have like, I, I hope this works, right? And so even when it's going good, they hope it works. Even when it's going good, I'm hoping it works, you know.

And so I had a conversation with my staff like an hour ago, and I hope this shit works.

And so like, um, if I, you know, if I, if I can understand that, right?

Yeah.

And I can understand what that looks like. My job is like, let's instill seeds of belief. Like, let's sow seeds of straight belief and let's help you believe more in yourself than you did yesterday. And so I can't do that if I don't recognize you. I can't do that if I don't give you a phone call and prop you up or get you on a podcast or, you know, you know, have an award ceremony or send you something for— like, does that make sense? Like, yeah, number one is, are— is anybody— does anybody see this? You know what I'm saying? Does anybody know? Because it's lonely, bro. Does anyone know?

I agree.

And so those phone— that wreck— those phone calls and those— that's, you know, I see you. That's huge. And I realized that my, uh, in a one season of my life, my platform was like dedicated around a lot of training and training in different cities and states and training in on different— and I realized like my podcast, I'm looking to train. And then in another season, it was like I just need this. I just need to help people shine. Like, I'm a kingmaker. I'm here to help people shine, you know. I'm not necessarily— I'm directing them doing the training as opposed to me having to do the training. And it's like, okay, we're making kings. Anything and everything that I say that can go through this microphone onto the screen should be positive in nature so that people leave stronger than they came in. And I didn't know the domino effect of that. That's massive. I mean, we breathe life into so many people, and that's what I want to do with my life. You know, I got the podcast Speak Life Podcast, um, Speak Life, the Marc J. Meade Podcast, on, you know on these different platforms— Spotify, Apple, YouTube. And the Speak Life came from something that was, you know, spoken to me, you know. And it's just something that I realized, like, you could, you know, the, the, the, um, there's life and death in the— in the— there's the power of life and death is in the tongue. It's scriptural, you know. And so I was a very pessimistic guy in my teens and in my early 20s, but I realized that I controlled that and that I could change that narrative. Just like when I had that aha moment about the rules of engagement, I could— I control that, I can change that. I could be a blah-level encourager I could be a level— I could be a 5 or I could be a 10. Yeah, right. And so, and the difference between 5 and 10 is intentionality. That's it. It was just being intentional, you know, and just, you know, helping people see the studs, the studs inside them, the diamonds, the jewels inside of them. And that stuff is like, that's like, you know, that'll take you, you know, some high places provided you're putting in the work. And, and I, I wouldn't fake it because I can encourage anything. I can encourage how good your beard looks. I can encourage the thing on the, the, the Stay Hungry on the back. I can encourage how chill you look on this podcast. I can encourage the, the, the watch you have. Like, I could encourage anything. I can encourage the way you're interviewing me. All that's real. Yeah, right. So I wasn't gonna just say, like, if you did $5,000 for the month, I'm not gonna encourage you doing 5 grand. I'm gonna challenge you.

Yeah.

And then I'll encourage the fact that why not you? Like, why can't you do what this guy did or that girl did? Or you got a family too. You got a wife and kids, you got people looking to you. It's just the only difference between you and them is the process and the schedule that they're running. Like, don't be so— and if you're running a more high— if you're running an active schedule, you're going to have to buy more leads. It's not that complicated. So that correlation was just very simple. And it was— but it was, you know, it was based in like used to be based in hardcore challenge, like, like, rip your soul out challenge. Different time though, man. You can't, you can't even get away with that stuff now. Like, I heard, uh, Greg Popovich tell Tony Parker at his Hall of Fame speech, he goes, Tony, if they— if I coach, if I coach today like I coached you, they put me in jail. You know, that wasn't that long ago. We're talking 6, 7 years ago. I mean, like, it ain't that long ago. Um, so anyway, so those things I, I looked at and saw opportunities in. Um, and then we encouraged around, like, you know, weddings and babies and anniversaries and birthdays, like stuff that, like, yes, a text message will go out Um, but we realized like those are big days. Yeah, they're big days. So we did— we tried to do more than that and just— we just made it a, a factory for, for praise.

Yep, you've done well with it. And it gives you— I'm guessing it makes sense to my head— more grace to challenge people also when you have the other side.

I would— for sure. But what really gives you the grace to challenge people is, is grace itself, you know what I mean? Um, you know, it's the, it's the approach, it's empathy, it's the fact that, yeah, most people are going through something. Yeah. And being cognizant of that, because nowadays if you're not cognizant that most people are going through something you'll never reach them. Sure, people shut down so fast. Yeah, you have to have the grace to even— you know, I mean, people shut down so fast, you know. So it's a whole different beast. But yeah, I mean, just stuff you learn as you go.

Yeah, it's, uh, it's been an interesting journey. I was— I had to learn a lot of that too. Yeah, so it's, it's been encouraging watching you. It's what I like about you is you You still challenge me. Hell, you challenged me last week, bro. Always get me thinking. I hang out with you and I think for the next 3 days. I'm like, this mother effer has been doing this to me for 10 years.

You're crazy, man.

Bro, first time we talked, you did that. You did that.

You just—

if you rewind this like 90 seconds, the whole thing about you can do more, why not you, the appointments, it's just more leads. Dude, you did that to me the first time we spoke.

Yeah, 90 plus plus plus.

Yes sir. For those that don't know, it's out there. 90 plus plus plus. Dude, I'm writing a book about the journey, legit, and that's— that whole part's in there. And I'm like, I got it, I got it. Like, they, they did it And I'm like, nah, that ain't how it went. And I had to like reword the whole thing. And yeah, man, it's such a turning point. Just something so simple, one conversation, you know what I mean? And it's like, to your point, you didn't know. Now you know because we're buddy, we talk, whatever. But you didn't know in that moment what that was going to do. You just did it because that's who you are, to serve the people, you know what I mean? That's your mantra. I don't know what you would tagline, what you call it, but You've had that as long as I've known you.

Mantra, huh? Yeah, like, yeah, I like that mantra.

Yeah, I mean, and that's all you were doing that day because I— she— there's no chance I was just mixed in with the crowd, you know what I mean? No chance you knew where that was going, who I was. I don't even— I'm not even sure if you even knew who the hell I was, to be honest, at that stage. I know most of the people that did know me knew me as that part-time accountant guy. And you—

that's great.

Yeah, so, um, man, I guess let's end with like just any kind of message you want to pass to people that are going to come across this. Um, you know, just be you. Any— anything you want to get across to anybody, I'll let you go wherever you want with that. Anything you want, dude.

I think you got to look at, you know, your journey and where you want to go, and you have to kind of get serious at some point about what you want this to look like and what you're willing to sacrifice to get it where you want it to go. Nothing great is going to happen without sacrifice, without great sacrifice. And like, I think that, you know, the conversations that I was able to have with my wife about like, okay, what do we want? What are we willing to give up to get what we want? You know, and then it, you know, it kind of morphs a little bit because what do we want sometimes becomes what do I want, right? Yeah. And what I— what do we want is what do I want the whole time, you know? And it's like, but it's a vision that we're building for one another. And in building that vision for one another, we are— it's what we want for our family. And, you know, but I had to, you know, it's great sacrifice that came in to— that comes in, that goes into that, you know, and it's not just, you know, something flippant. You have to make a decision at some point. This is what I want. As long as you have a vehicle to do the thing you want in inside of it, then it'll, it'll, uh, it'll manifest. It'll start— stuff you didn't think will start showing themselves to you, you know. It'll start showing itself to you, and you'll start to think differently, and you'll add things, and you'll add people, and you'll add different, um, items to the deal. And you It'll get better and better and better, but make a decision, you know, this is what you want. And don't negotiate with— don't negotiate with the destination. You're gonna make all kinds of tweaks throughout the roads. They wind, they're hills, they're mountains, they're valleys, they're peaks. You're gonna make all kinds of— but the destination, that you don't negotiate the destination. Top of the mountain's the top of the mountain. That mountain didn't move because you, because you altered your course. The mount, the top of the mountain stayed right where it was at. It didn't go anywhere, John. The peak was the peak, brother. And so don't negotiate with the destination. Just, you're gonna have to negotiate a lot with how you get there, but don't make a decision and don't negotiate with the destination.

I love it. We need to— I'm gonna get a sign that says that.

I need one too.

I, um, I heard this, uh, this, this quote. I read it somewhere. I talk about it a lot, and it was like, if you're not willing to sacrifice for the things you want, the things you want is what you're sacrificing.

Mm-hmm. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I was reading something the other day. I'm trying to remember how it went. But it was along the lines of— was along the line, it was something like what you just— I'm not gonna get it, I'm not gonna get it. I want to edit that out.

That's all good. Yeah, I got this other one. I'm trying to think if I can— I have a sign out there, um, man, I almost want to go get it. It's like, what's it say? Do you, do you hate change? I almost want to go out there and grab it. It's hung up over there, but it's similar concept. I'm gonna put it on the screen, the one I got.

Um, but I just—

I, I think people miss— I swear I like the way you worded it too. You gonna get it?

Hold on, I'm gonna go.

I'm gonna try.

Oh, I got it.

Mine says Do you, do you hate, do you hate losing so much you're willing to change, or do you hate change so much you're willing to lose?

Oh, I gotta write that one down.

Yeah, I'll send you a picture. It literally— the room where agents come true. Yeah. Do you hate losing so much you're willing to change, or do you hate change so much you're willing to lose? We got a big one that hang— it hangs right where people walk into the downstairs training room. I don't know why I lost it because I see it every day.

That's strong. Mine isn't as powerful as that, but it is good. Um, it's, life is hard. Believing it should be easy makes it harder.

I like that.

Like, take the path. Like, It's hard. Like, let's not— let's not act like it's supposed— too many people do act like this thing's supposed to be easy. Yeah, like, what, what's easy in life, by the way? Raising kids is hard. Freaking marriage is hard. Freaking building a business is hard. Freaking relationships are hard. Like, it's, it's not easy. I don't know what's easy. And those are some of the biggest pillars in life, the 4 things I just said: business, kids, marriage, relationships. None of that stuff's easy. And everybody— not everybody wants that, but a lot of people have that, they'll screw it up. And a lot of people want that, right? And a lot of people do it successfully. But, you know, I try to take notes from people that do do it successfully. It is not easy and it's not perfect. It's None of the people doing it successfully are perfect or doing it perfectly.

Amen to that one.

That's another one. Look at us, dude.

The last 3 minutes have been the best shit ever. That's crazy. I love it, dude. Good stuff, bro. Well, I appreciate you coming on, dude, and, uh, Love you, love what you're doing, and I'm sure we'll connect soon offline.

But appreciate you too, man. Appreciate it, buddy. Thanks for having me, man. God bless.

You got it, bro.

Later.