How I Overcame a $2 MILLION Insurance Chargeback ft. Khris Bryan | Ep15

I could cut taxes in half.

How do you cut taxes in half?

I don't want to give too much away.

Yeah.

Why not?

Hey, y'all. John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Have my buddy here, Chris Bryan, former military vet. I don't know if you call it former or how that works, but military guy for sure. Owns a bunch of businesses in insurance, tax. I think you deal guns or sell weapons or bullets, or maybe all the above. Just walk around badass who makes a bunch of money in the business. So appreciate you getting on, dude.

Hey, thanks, man. I appreciate it. It's an honor to have, uh, be on here with you. Yeah, appreciate it. Absolutely, bro.

So I know that, uh, I'm looking at, looking at, man, I'm like, I didn't know you owned that many, that many different things. You know, the one I know is obviously the insurance side of what you do. Um, obviously the, um, the Wealth Warriors Foundation, I've heard a little bit about that. My understanding is you said— I'm pretty sure you deal with some like higher net worth clients. It's more your focus, if I'm not—

yeah, I do a lot of estate planning and, and, uh, you know, trust, wills. We bring an attorney in, we do a lot of different things for asset center management. And, you know, we do a lot of annuities, we do a lot of life insurance, of course, um, long-term care life insurance policies that, that are going to protect people long into their retirement. So the majority of our clients, I would say, are probably 55 and up. That's going to be our typical market.

Got it. Interesting.

Yeah.

So it's funny, you hear a lot of people that don't want to work that age bracket because they're like, they're all broke, they got no money.

Oh yeah, on the contrary, that's where all the money lies. Um, I know that, you know, in the final expense world, a lot of times you're seeing those people, you know, that you're grabbing that are trying to pay for a funeral, things like that. Although we use final expense as part of a tool, um, it— and it's a very valuable tool, uh, for those people who do not have assets. The ones that have assets typically aren't worried about, you know, paying for a funeral, what have you. But it's still a tool in the toolbox that I want to have permanently involved in their, in their future, just so, you know, family doesn't have to worry about it. It's taken off the table. It's not even part of the, the asset allocation. So we don't have to worry about Um, you know, not having it, uh, the day of we go to the funeral, we just give them the policy number and they rock and roll from there with final expense, which I know that's kind of been your world. And, uh, and again, dude, this is your world, I'm just living in it. Um, but, uh, it's, it's, it's a little different, um, on this side of things when it comes to estate planning. There's no, uh, one call closes, there's no Um, you know, quick, quick money. And that's probably, I would say, the reason why most people don't get into it, uh, as far— because it could be 30 to 45, maybe 60 to 90 days before you get paid on a case. I mean, you get paid well, don't get me wrong, but it's, it's one of those things that, that you kind of have to start out doing something that's going to pay quicker in the industry before you can actually get into and learning, because the learning curve is freaking nuts in comparison to, uh, life insurance, Medicare, things like that, that, that you could start making money like right now. Um, but it is highly lucrative for sure, dude.

I went through that process for myself and I don't even understand what I have. Yeah, I'm like, can you make sure when I die everyone's good and no one can steal my shit?

And you know what I mean?

Like, I just I just want to be good and like not worry, you know. And it was— I, I went, you know, I went through the process. If you're looking to transform your insurance sales game in just 12 weeks, this course I put together is for you. Go over 20 different topics, everything from sales to goal setting to lead plans and everything I've done in the last decade plus, having multiple six-figure sales success. I've helped hundreds and hundreds of agents get to multiple six figures all over the country, mentoring and speaking at all kinds of Events. So available now, find the link in the description, use the code LAUNCH for a discount code. So do you get paid on the trust side too, or just the insurance side, or a little bit of all of it, or consulting?

I mean, there's ways to get paid on the trust side. I don't really look at that. I try to let the attorney do most of that. Yeah, I mean, uh, we have a local attorney we work with and we try to, try to keep, you know, a lot of those things, um, in the network of things out there to, to help bring them the most amount of peace. Um, and, and really, an attorney is going to be the best spot for the, for the most part. For a lot of those people, they're very wealthy, or, you know, even if they're in the middle income of wealth, um, it's still a concern for most people. And having the right trust in place is, is freaking crazy important because, you know, trust can protect a lot, but it gets to long-term care, it's viewed differently, and they can have access to your to your, uh, clarify that. What do you mean?

So give me an example, like break that down for a dipshit like me that knows nothing about it.

On trusts? Yeah. Okay, so, um, well, there's hundreds of— curious just for myself because I have one that I don't know what it means. Yeah, so really the, the, the high-level view there is just really, really this: there's hundreds of different kinds of trusts. Um, there's MCATs, MCRTs, special needs trusts, the list goes on and on. But they really fall in two categories. You have irrevocable and revocable. Yeah. So irrevocable, people think, well, if I put my money in there, I can't get to it. Well, why would anybody do that if that was the case? This is how the uber wealthy work. And the whole idea is to own nothing but control everything. Yeah. So if that's the case, then an irrevocable trust with a tax ID separates that from your name. And then there's a 5-year lookback and a spend down when you get to long-term care. A lot of people show up to a long-term care conversation while they're in the need right now, like the husband or the wife, and they walk in and say, hey, I'm protected, I have a trust. And they walk in with a revocable trust and they ask 3 questions: do you own it, do you control it, and are you the benefactor of it? Yes, yes, and yes. Well, open that up because now we're going to go ahead and spend that down. No way. So in an irrevocable trust, that's different. After the 5-year look back then those assets, those assets don't belong to you anymore. So now it's a—

so they can't touch it.

That's right.

So an irrevocable, if you go to long-term care, they can take your money, basically.

That's right. And most attorneys don't see that far down the road.

They don't even think about that.

They think of protecting assets now. Yeah, if you get sued, they're gonna get at it. But long-term care is a little special deal. So when they're talking about trying to protect assets and getting the combination benefits from the federal government, the state government that we've all paid for ever since we paid taxes, that's going to be a little bit different story. So at the end of the road, those things are always going to be an important thing to cover your, your tailpipe, just to make sure you're not in the wrong trust. I don't like to have to redo trust down the road either, so if I can help it, it's a lot of work. It's a little more complicated to have an irrevocable trust. You have to have your trustee show up if you want to sell an asset or buy an asset. Um, but most of the time that's a son or a daughter or, uh, maybe a brother or sister. It's not your wife, it's someone separate from you. They don't even have to be a benefactor of you, they're just there to help guide things, manage it, right? Yeah, trusted people.

Yeah, kind of execute what you put in there.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, makes sense. So what about on the insurance side? What do y'all do there? What's the—

what's your—

I know you probably several things, but give some ideas.

A lot. One of the typical policy has been, I would say, probably one of the most important thing— well, the most prominent things we've been starting is Mortgage Free Life, where you, you have a way to pay your house off in 5 to 7 years, um, and we're able to create a 90% equity, um, from your home value. So in other words, you have a line of credit that's your primary line of credit, so your mortgage goes away, it all goes into line of credit, you create 90% the value of your home and then we're able to actually trade that mortgage payment for a retirement plan. So instead of paying all that money to a mortgage company, we're redirecting it inside of a retirement plan that eventually is now going to be tax-free. So we're using an IUL for a base for that. So we use a bank loan, normal bank loan. The problem is, was most, most banks won't do it. So we have those networks of banks that we've been working with for quite some time through Mortgage Free Life and expanding upon that, you know, as we go. But the big thing is with those banks, they do this and they do this alone. That's all they do. Um, so they do these types of primary lien type mortgages. In other words, it's your primary mortgage, but it's simple interest instead of compounding and amortizing. So now daily interest. So you put your entire paycheck in there. So it's paycheck parking. You literally put your paycheck in and it pushes down that interest rate daily, and then your expenses come out. So it's kind of two steps forward, one step back, two step forward, one step back, um, and it just ratchets down the, uh, the mortgage. I'll have my mortgage— a little about $1.2 million house, um, nothing compared to you, um, but, uh, I have a, uh, I have—

I've had—

I, I'll have my house paid off in about 2 years. No.

So instead of a mortgage, I want to make sure I track this.

Yeah.

A line of credit, you said?

Yeah.

What's the— why? What's the— loans alone, right?

Not necessarily. A line of credit is simple interest, so it's based on a daily interest. So a mortgage is front-loaded. So let's say you had a 4.5% interest rate and a $500,000 home. Well, by the time you get paid on the 30th year and you've paid the house off, you've paid $912,000. Yeah, so you've bought a house for yourself and you bought a house for the mortgage company.

Yeah, yeah. So on the simple— what's it, just do interest once a year or something?

Yeah, well, it's daily simple interest, so you actually pay it on a monthly basis. But it also helps for people who are in, like, they might have seasonal work. They have a lot of, uh, you know, really, really good income half the year. The other half of the year might be it dies off because of weather or whatever. Well, but they make really good money. Well, the problem is, is now how do we survive that last 6 months? Well, you can actually front-load it into the line of credit and actually pull from that line of credit because you put money in, you take money out. It's like right now if you have a mortgage and you want to pay an extra— let's say you, you get a windfall, you want to put $50 grand in that mortgage. You put $50 grand in the mortgage. Well, what happens? Well, can you get at that money if you need that $50,000 back? No, you got to get another loan. Well, in a line of credit situation, you have 90% loan to value. So let's say you had a million dollar home. Uh, I mean, obviously for, for— it's not reality for most people. Let's just say a million dollar home, 90% is $900,000. So you have a $900,000 line of credit. Well, let's say we had maybe $400,000 over here left on our mortgage to pay. That alleviates that mortgage. It's out of the picture. So let's say that was Wells Fargo, for instance. It's out of the picture. It's now into the new bank loan. Inside the line of credit. So that swallows that up. And then what happens there is you just paycheck park. So it's a specialized checking account where you, you put everything you make into that checking account. Yeah. And it literally pushes it down. Well, if you need money, you pull it right back out.

Yeah, yeah.

So next day if you need to. So you're paying your expenses out of there. Typically I, I like a different strategy to do that along with it, but the, the idea is now we we have the ability to fund a tax-free retirement plan. So we're really trading the mortgage for, uh, our retirement plan. So instead of paying all that interest, yeah, we're earning the interest.

Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, have you ever met the dude Larry McLean?

Yes. So his is more Infinite Banking, but yeah, that was around prior to that. Yeah, so, uh, Larry's a great guy. Uh, I've heard his presentation a lot. It's great. It's a good, good deal. This is quite a bit different because you actually have the line of credit based on— yeah, that in your home that never would be realized unless you sold it. Yeah, right. So it's just sitting there not doing anything for you. So what we typically teach our clients to do is, let's say, okay, in 4 years— I'm gonna have your house paid off in 4 years. That's our typical client, uh, sometimes 2, sometimes 5, but it's sometimes 7. Um, but let's just say they're going to pay off in 4 years. Uh, I have a 28-year-old couple we just did this on, um, that seems to be a really nice age too, because the late 20s, people are— it's like married couples are having their kids, they're trying to get their house, you know, they're, they're— everything's getting straight, they're up on their skis, they're in their career for their life, things like that. And that 28-year-old couple now has the ability to pay their house off in 4 years. So they're in a half a million dollar home and they're paid off by the ripe old age of 32, and now they have access to this line of credit for the next 10 years. Well, now what happens is we take a 20% down onto a rent home out of the line of credit. We still paycheck park that down. Now we own another home, we have some arbitrage from that, it's going to go back in there, pay it down even more, and you could repeat that 10 times under your own name with no debt-to-income. So it's a way for people to actually get into the real estate business and exponentialize their actual, uh, plan. And, you know, everybody likes to do the Grant Cardone thing. Everybody likes to do that, that, that, you know, real estate god like he is. And if they just don't have a way to get started, maybe they don't have enough of XYZ to get to where they need to be to start. Now, once they start, then the momentum kicks in.

Yeah.

So we teach clients of all ages to do that. So I have clients that are in their 60s that are doing this, that had their house paid off, and they actually wanted to do a mortgage-free life so they could access the equity in their home. It's their forever home. They're not going anywhere. They make good money in retirement, but they want to expand upon it. Or maybe they're 5 years away from, from retirement, and now they want to, they want to expand on that and buy a bunch of houses. And then we're— that's a way for us to go in, and if they're still healthy, be able to put a long-term care life insurance policy in place on them as well. So now they don't have to worry about digging into their assets for that kind of stuff.

Makes sense. It's funny, the reason I thought of him when you said that, it's like you're, you're, you're playing the interest game, you know what I mean? Where am I getting more versus paying more, etc. I remember when he— first time I saw him, he, he was like, it was just a kind of a light bulb moment, a way to look at interest, you know, where he was like, I don't know, your mortgage payment's $2,000 and $1,500 of it's going to interest every month. And in our head we go, I have a 4% interest or 5 or 6% interest, 7% interest. He's like, what's $1,500 into $2 grand? It's like 75%, dude. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's a wild— when you look at it month to month.

Yeah. And your standard 4.5% interest rate, you're paying about 67% in interest in the first 10 years.

Yeah, dude, I had— what's crazy is, bro, I knew that like clearly because I was an accountant and I was in mortgages and I kind of knew how much total interest you pay. But I never looked at it in terms of like— I thought now when someone goes, I got 6%, in my head I can't help but go like, no you don't, you know what I mean? I just— it gave me a different perspective, you know what I'm saying? Even though I knew the cost of a loan long term, I never really looked at it.

Well, you don't ever think you have an option either, so it's just like, that's just what people do, right? Um, but that's— that is, uh, that is changing. We get more calls, referrals. I think, uh, my business partner did a TikTok, man. We were getting 8 calls a day to the office on a TikTok that was just organic. We didn't pay or push it or anything. We just did a TikTok with him talking about what he did. He was one of our first clients. He did it for himself, and then I followed shortly after that. And he's, he's going to be paid off. He'll be paid off by end of next year. Um, so I jumped in a year later than him, so I'll be paid off you know, uh, shortly thereafter. Yeah. Well, so what'd you do prior?

Like, you 25 years in the business, what were you doing in the business prior to this stuff? It sounds like it's newer.

Yeah, only really had two careers, the insurance industry and the military. So prior to that, I, I started out the SEAL program. Um, I really— second phase of dive. What's that?

I didn't know that.

Oh really? Okay. Yeah, so Um, the first, the first thing you go through, obviously, in, in basic underwater demolition school, uh, to be a SEAL, first phase, you have second phase and third phase. Well, second phase is dive phase, uh, that's past Hell Week. First way, first phase they call it, uh, strength and conditioning, uh, and Hell Week is probably the extreme of that. But, um, the second phase is dive phase, and my eardrums blew at about 80, between 80 and 60 feet. Coming up from a 100-foot dive. I had a reverse block, my eardrums blew, and after that the dive doctor gave me very, very large amounts of doubt as to whether or not I'd ever be able to dive again. So I didn't roll back to another class or anything like that and heal up. It would have been 6 months minimum. So I moved on and I got into aviation, and I worked on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier after that for the remainder of my career. And then I did a little bit of a recruiting stint Um, and, uh, that's where I learned to sell, which was awesome. Uh, who knew that Navy had sales schools? But they do. Yeah. Um, and that was a long time ago. That was 20— we're getting old, bro— years ago. Yeah. Now, so I got right out of the military, right into this. So I was in the military for 9 years, and then I got out, and, uh, I was introduced to the insurance industry by my father-in-law. And he's now since passed away, but, um, he, he's the one that introduced me to it, and he— I trusted him, and he was a former minister, and he was killing it. And he's like, Chris, you're gonna kill it in this industry. And I got in it and realized there was no mentorship, there was no, you know, training. There's no— it's here, here's a list of people, go see them, here's what you got to sell. One policy, one health policy at the time, um, no other choices, just this. Go out and sell. So I think that's probably where I really learned to sell, because, you know, pressure's on and I got a family to feed.

So what year did you start, like late '90s, early?

I started in 2002 in this industry. Yeah, so 2002, it was, um, it was, uh, easy.

Well, we're getting clients like then, give you uphill in the snow both ways. I know you just said phone book.

Yeah, everything was a home visit. I mean, you're setting your appointments over the phone. My area, I mean, I did that out of the way, and that was 7 years ago I was still doing that. But, uh, yeah, I mean, we get the paper leads and, and paper applications. There was no such thing as— I mean, we had to get to the, uh, airport FedEx by Tuesday at 10 o'clock at night to get those things paid next week. You know, it was just like everybody's just showing up, you know, putting those policies in.

That's funny.

So how, how do you—

is most of your business now referral-based, or how do you get your clients now?

What's the main— obviously the TikToks that I do a lot of referral-based. We do a lot of seminars, we do a lot of, um, community events. We did a, a wine and cheese party, um, and just put out to our agents here locally and just a few agents, key agents, and a few key people. And we filled the room with 50 people, uh, for Mortgage Free Life because we put mortgage, uh, lenders and real estate agents and all those guys in the room. And it was just crazy how many people just got on fire about it. And I mean, most of the room wants to do it on their own, on their set, by the, you know, themselves. And they want to bring clients to it because they can see the, the writing on the wall for that. Um, but things like that, we'll do community events, we'll do seminars, but there's a lot of referral base. You know, been doing this for long enough to where you get quite a bit of referrals.

Yeah, um, yeah, especially hiring people takes time, but you build a good name, they know— people know people.

Yeah, yeah, hiring is the hardest part to this part of the industry because, man, again, it's a, it's a huge learning curve. And I've got a lot of, a lot of my agents that are working, um, in, in specific areas to keep themselves on point and focused, right? And not get them running different rabbit trails, um, try to do this, trying to do this. They can always add to it, um, you know, hey, Mr. and Mrs. Client, I see you possibly have some assets. Would you like to have a conversation with, you know, our owner or our owners? And, um, about that, they're the experts, and they just kind of set that up, the referral, and then of course they get part of that and and all that kind of stuff. So, um, but it's their way for sitting in, and I require them to sit in on those appointments and actually, yeah, cool, you know, learn.

Yeah.

And shut their mouth and listen, you know. You get those guys—

ever get referrals from people, from agents that aren't your agents per se? Um, I know someone runs a whole business model like that.

Yeah, yeah. In fact, I do too. I— in fact, what's that?

It might be the same person, who knows.

Yeah, it might be the same guy. There's not a whole lot of people that I know that run annuities like that, and they kill it. Ryan might be the same guy we're talking about. Yeah, 100%. So great guy. He kills it.

Prince money doing it.

Yeah, he kills it. And, you know, it's not so much that I wouldn't mind doing that, but with my travel schedule and keynote speaking and then the other two businesses, it keeps my time enough to where I, I can't really focus on going out there and closing business for others. I, I mean, it— I get referrals from P&C agents that I have long-standing relationships with, uh, locally, to where it really doesn't— that's not that big of a need, um, because those P&C agents know that, that I'm honorable. I'm going to help them get what they want, and they don't want to have to mess with it, but they want the commission. So just like anybody, uh, that Ryan would deal with.

But yeah, so on the— you mentioned annuities. I want to kind of know about annuity and IUL, your thoughts. But you, you just mentioned annuity. What's your, what's your like thoughts, I guess, on them? Why to use them, when to use them? And obviously you know what the reputation is for people that aren't educated about them, you know what I'm saying? It's like, how do you, how do you navigate that with clients, the fears? And I mean like, how do you sell an annuity, if you will?

And what are pros, cons, like One of the big things with annuities is you gotta almost hate 98% of them. I mean, I hate— why?

What do you hate about them?

Well, variable annuities is what your typical assets under management guy that works for Ed Jones or any of these other companies out there— not to drop names, but those companies out there are not— they're going to sell them a variable, and their fees I've seen as high as 6.5% inside some of these things. Yeah, so you're buying stocks and bonds and mutual funds inside these variable annuities, and those variable annuities are paying that agent 3 or 4 times the commission he would be if he was just putting them in stocks, bonds, mutual funds inside of an investment account, right, where they make it 1.5%, right? So it's a way for them to triple their commissions. And they're truly trying to do an income rider, but there is really no good income rider inside of a variable annuity that I've ever been proven. I said, bring it to me, I'll pick it apart, and we'll look at it. There's probably about a dozen companies that do business right, and most of the time I'm doing a bifurcated approach. So I'll do some in assets under management, and I'll do some in annuities. And if I'm directing them to assets under management, that gives— I'm not a one-trick pony. And I used to be on the other side, you know, I used to be like You know, the market's going to crash, you're going to lose your money, blah, blah, blah. I'm a big believer in the market. As I've grown my own portfolio, I'm a big believer in the market. It will return. The problem is, is now if someone is 65, they don't want it all in the market. Maybe they just want to do it a little bit differently. With our assets under management team, it's more— you're able to invest on an institutional basis versus a retail basis. So it's not like your average everyday box store that you go to to buy stocks, bonds, mutual funds. You're talking about actually investing in private equities, in hedge funds, things like that, where you typically have to walk in with $5 to $25 million to start. We get our clients going with little as $50 grand into those accounts because we're, we're connected that way. There's only about 11 companies, 11 agencies in the United States that actually can do this. Um, so in every business that I do, man, I, I think in all 4 businesses, they have to be unique. They have to be doing something different than, than your average everyday dude out there, or dudette, you know. Um, because what's going to make you stand out? What's your value proposition? What is going to make you different than that guy? Um, is it service? Is it product? Is it, you know, cutting edge? Um, you know, I could walk in and I could cut taxes in half for someone.

Yeah.

Um, and if I'm cutting taxes in half for them, how much more are they going to listen to me on an asset center management conversation, or maybe even an annuity conversation? So let's say all planes are equal, everything's equal. I'm doing the same stocks, bonds, mutual fund as XYZ agent or, uh, securities guy down the road. If that's the case and I could walk in, I can save you half on your taxes, I've already got the upper hand. Yep. But we're not equal on that plane. Typically I can get people in less risk with more gain and more predictable outcome. And then on the flip side of that, I can actually take them to a, a model to help them with mortgage-free life. To where I can turn that into an equity. Then I'm also in, in retirement, I've got a lot of high net worth clients that are making $400,000 in retirement plus. Well, they want to get that— they don't want to pay $120,000 in taxes, right? Um, so typically I can cut that in half, uh, with one simple move. Um, all those things are just, you know, how that—

how that taxes in half.

Yeah, you being the accountant, that's going to be something you lean in real fast on. Um, I don't want to give too much away. There's about 19 different ones that we can use. Um, I have one that I'm using here. Um, soon this one is going to be more— one of the things that, that this blew my mind. Um, there, if you just, you know, you burn victims, right? They typically take graft skins from one part of the body, they move it to the other. Well, in, in babies and infants and, and all the, you know, children in, in St. Jude's, for instance, um, there is a way for you to actually invest in the company that takes 1 centimeter of skin. They take 1 centimeter of skin and they use your own DNA and grow that to 40 centimeters of skin.

Interesting.

Well, there's a certain tax bracket, a certain guideline that you have to follow to be in the IRS guidelines, but that typically is going to give you your ability to, uh, donate to that organization and get a tax— it's not a credit, it's a write-off.

Got it.

So in that situation, you've got X amount you put in, you're going to get X amount back in a write-off. And that's a very simple donation that just pays dividends back to you because it lowers your tax bracket, it lowers your AGI, it can cut it in half. So all those things are just relative to everyone's individual situation.

Yeah.

Knowing where those are and part of our organization with Innovative, um, in our asset center management group and all that kind of stuff. That is— those guys are just, they're just on point. And, and we got some really, really intelligent guys that are way more intelligent than me. Um, and it's just finding those people, right? Getting in the door and connecting. And, and that really, that makes the difference.

Do you create like What's the word I want to— you know how like Brian does, Askins, who has like the little network of people, I assume, you know me, where they all refer each other business? Are you in that?

Yeah, the executive referral, a lot of that. Yeah, yeah, I've, I've actually, uh, I was part of several for a while and I really need to do it again. It was a lot of fun really, just to get together with other people, other successful people, or people who are growing businesses and I might be able to help. Again, time. Um, I, I always encourage every single one of my agents I don't care what they're working, whether it be final expense, whether it be Medicare, whether it be ACA, whether it be annuities and, and, and, and, uh, any kind of tax mitigation strategies that they're using as part of our group to get into those executive referral groups. Why? Because they know people and they're around people all the time. You'll sell more life insurance. It's like Coach Burch says, you don't, you don't need more money, you need more people. So all you got to do is just keep talking to people, and that's going to get you— that's going to get you where you need to go.

It's funny, man. I know we relate on a lot of this, but it is funny how many people want to get into this career and then they don't ever talk to people. They're just waiting for the leads to fall out of the sky and hit them in the head and get rich.

It's, it's an interesting dynamic. It blows me away. They think they have to have all this money to start. Yeah. And they really don't. They just need more motivation and, and direction. Um, you know, I had a gal in here yesterday, um, that she was struggling. She's on another team, or one of my downline teams, and, and, um, and she's just struggling. She's having all kinds of problems, you know, exes, all that kind of stuff. And she's in a low place, and she's like, what do I do right now? I don't have any money to go do this or anybody. Okay, here's what you need to do. I said, how many people are in your phone? You said 300, 400 people. Do they know what you do? No. Why? You've been doing this 6 months. You put a bunch of money in this to buy leads, to do this, learn, all that kind of stuff, but you're not connecting to your warm market. They have no idea what you do. They have no idea how you help people. Um, you know, who's going to show up and give the check at their funeral? Some 1-800 select quote, some BS like that. No, they want a person that's going to care enough to show up and make sure that check's in their account. All those things are all just, just like— it was like an epiphany to her when I told her. I was like, who, who do you know? Yeah, well, I know this person, I know this person that owns that company. Put me in front of them. Put me in front of her.

In sales, and you know what I mean, like, it is, it's a relationship business, people business. The thing I love about the business, dude, is there's unlimited supply of clients for the rest of time.

Yeah, you're right, you'll get them. And it doesn't matter what kind of market, it doesn't matter if it's an upmarket, a downmarket, people still need what we do. Yeah.

And what I love too A big reason why you and many others are successful is like our competition is just the other licensed people who aren't willing to work as hard.

That's right.

Yeah, I mean, over the long period of time, like you built this over 25 years. I think the problem where most want it in their first 4 months. Yeah, you know what I mean? And I think that was funny. Maddox was— I was talking to Maddox last night, my 12-year-old, and, uh, he's so intrigued by like business and money and stocks and selling the company. Here's a lot of the conversations I've had. He gets to be around some, some cool environments.

I bet he does. That's sweet.

And, uh, yeah, so I gotta, I gotta, I got a buddy who's sold— his dad has sold 3 companies in the space. And we're just talking about different levels of wealth, you know what I mean? And some people look at me one way, and I'm like, I don't see that. I see, like, I'm still building you know, in my head, you know, I mean, I'm still trying to build something. And, uh, we start talking about it and just the different lifestyle levels. And I don't know how to— I don't want to get too like corny over, but he'd like, shit you can buy and things you can do for people, you know, I mean. Some people have jet, like multiple jets, and I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I do well, but I don't have multiple jets well, you know what I'm saying? I'm not there yet. And And we start talking, he's like, well, why? He's— I'm like, I don't know, dude's been in the business 50 years. Yeah. He was like, oh, and you've only been in at 12? I'm like, yeah. He goes, oh, that makes sense. Like, it was just like so simple to him, you know what I mean? Like, it— that was it. He didn't get any deeper. He didn't go, does he get better leads? Does he have more clients? You know, he didn't get— it was just like, oh, that makes sense. 4 times longer, he has more wealth. Like, right. It's pretty simple.

It's just that you've been at it longer.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah. And most of my wealth I've built really the last 12 years. The first 10 years, dude, I struggled. And the reason I struggled, I think, is because I was too damn hard-headed, um, and I wouldn't— first of all, I could blame it on not having a mentorship, but I really had to teach myself how to, how to sell in this business, how to, how to present myself, how to dress. I mean, you'd be surprised. I mean, people walk in this door and they, they want to look into being a financial advisor, okay? And I'm not saying that's the upper echelon in this business. I'm just not, because there's people that make a hell of a lot more money than I do, and they're doing, you know, Medicare. That's all they do. Oh crap. But, and they don't even sell annuities.

They don't do any—

they don't cross the line. It's just Medicare.

And I know some people in that world who can't pay their rent. It's both. It goes every way. It's every industry, right? High end, low end.

It is what it is. But just knowing how to dress and walk in front of a client and, and looking like you, you know, ironed your shirt with a rock. I'm just like, it costs $1.50 to go over here and drop that off at the dry cleaner. If you don't want to do it, scrape some change out of your account, out of your, out of your couch and, and go, you know, dress appropriately, especially if you're going to go and present yourself to people you know that you're new in a business and you're wanting help, you're hungry. And you're trying to get out there and make an impression on people, and first impression is everything. And I see these people— in fact, some of the people in my son's— because he's in the business with me. Ashley's my operations manager, she's my daughter, and my son is in the executive referral group. And he, he walks into this guy that does Medicare, his hair is all disheveled, he's like— I mean, literally looks like he wadded his shirt up, put it in his pocket, then put it on. Um, and he needs some help. That was just like, it was, it was awful. I mean, how does he sell? He's been in the business for 20 years. How does he sell? And I'm like, well, apparently he sells everything over the phone, I guess. I don't know. But, uh, I did meet him. They do a meet and greet and you come and visit businesses and stuff. And it's crazy. But you're, you know, I feel like even if I'm on the phone and I'm not on a Zoom or anything like that I've got to be dressed appropriately because it gets my mind in the right spot. Yeah, you know, I used to do suit and tie. I kind of got away from that. I got more casual, you know. Some of my older clients still kind of expect that in a way.

Yeah, um, but overall, you know, your demographic too. I think there's a level of— you said it best, like how— what makes you feel good, right? You know, and then a combination of— you have to know your demographic, you know what I mean? Like, you know me, dude, I don't prefer to dress up at all, like I'm not that guy.

Yeah, yeah, t-shirt and shorts that most people can get in a tie. The point is, but I know when to do that, right? And when you have to change yourself over in your mindset anymore, it's already there. Yeah, but these new agents, they come in thinking, yeah, oh, this is going to be easy. I'm going to turn around, I'm going to have a house his size, I'm going to drive the cars he drives, I'm going to do this, we'll have his life. And that's fine. I don't, I don't mind that at all. That mindset's awesome, right? Just, I want them to— yeah, let's work towards that. Yeah, but don't expect it to come in the first 6 months, man. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta get your ears boxed a little bit and, and understand that this industry will chew you up and spit you out. If you get that up front and realize it's going to be war— that's what I do when I keynote speak, I talk about business as war— and if you don't come in with a mentality of actually going to war, you're going to get shot financially, you know, in, in this business. It's going to chew you up and spit you out. And, and that's— most people, I think, just don't come in with the right, right mindset.

That.

They think it's going to be easy. I did when I first came in. I thought, oh, this is going to be easy. I just came out, I was the Recruiter of the Year for the entire nation in 2000, and here I come in with this cocky attitude like nobody could touch me in sales. Yeah, yeah. I got my PP handed to me real fast in this business. Realized I didn't have that first 15th paycheck coming in. I didn't have this or have that. It all is my— on me now. Um, but yeah, I mean, it wakes you up.

Give us some teeth kicked in stories.

I know you got some, uh, in this business. Yeah, hell yeah. Anybody?

Yes, but I don't care. You can— listen, this is me, dude. We can talk about anything you want. I don't care, but you pick.

Yeah, in 2017, we discovered an agent that was, um, opening up fake policies, uh, just on people out of the phone book. He just picked names out of the phone book, I guess, and just write policies on them. And this particular carrier would issue a critical illness life insurance policy, and when they would issue it, uh, they did not need a Social Security number. They did not— all they needed was a date of birth and a name because they did all of their underwriting upon claim versus upfront. So they would advance the agent 12-month advance.

Yeah.

And he was writing people out of the phone book. Now, he was a former Aflac agent, so he had a ton of business. Yeah, and he was sick of Aflac's, uh, deal at the time. And I think they've done some things to get better at it now, but, um, at the time, uh, they were really driving a lot of agents out. So he had a ton of business. So he— his excuse was, I'm just going back to these employees that I have one-on-one, and I'm just getting them on a better plan. That was his story, explanation, right? So for almost 2 years Um, he wrote a little over $2.5 million in, in actual commissions.

Um, and premiums aren't monthly? Like, do they not pay monthly? How the payment work?

Well, I mean, yeah, so he's just— yeah, he had 16 different credit cards.

He's Ponzi scheming it, paying the monthly payment to get the advance. Stop it.

Yep, 16 different credit cards he was putting it on. All of the policies were going to one PO box, not the client. Um, and, and the company didn't flag this or nothing. They're just like, oh yeah, blah blah blah, he's doing great, got all kinds of awards, we gave him all kinds of awards, set him on trips, did all this other stuff. Damn. And come to find out, all those policies, for the most part I would say probably 95% of those policies were all fake. Um, so of course course, that chargeback rolls to us. So we had a $1.95— like $1.95 million chargeback.

Just call it $2 million, bro.

Yeah, just, just— yeah, I rounded up to $2 million, but, um, it's just under $2 million, uh, that rolled to us.

So, um, I had someone cry last week because they got like $3,200.

Yeah, I mean, I cried. Like, that would happen in the business.

They're, they're fan— they're gonna die and not make it another day, kind of, you know what I mean?

Yeah, it's the world is ending, sky is falling. Yeah. And you gotta just work it. That's the problem though. They'll go out and they'll do— they'll write one piece of business in a week and it charges back, and that hurts. Yeah, 10 pieces of business in a week and one charges back, doesn't hurt as bad. So it's like But yeah, I get it. The— it— I see it all the time here. People don't— people in my office, they don't even— they get a chargeback, they don't even come saying nothing around you. Yeah.

What year was that?

Uh, that was 2017. We found out it— we finally got it all settled in 2020.

Finally paid. Yeah, life is good. It's funny, it's like, it, it can be all relative, you know what I mean? I've had some big— not compared to— biggest one I had was $150 grand. Same, that's similar concept, doing shady stuff. And I bought, I bought the story, you know what I mean? Like, I felt something was off. And then when I called— and of course I called the crook to ask, not knowing at the time he was the crook. And you get— what I've learned is crooks give great stories, dude.

They're re— they're really good at sales.

They're really convincing.

They got that shit down.

Yep. And, uh, yeah, man, I bought the story too. And what I was very thankful for it in a weird way, um, because it changed the way I looked at business.

You know what I mean?

It changed the way I looked at people. Not in a— not that I look at everyone negative, but I just like, I follow my gut more. I look into people's business. In the book, it taught me how to like prevent a lot of stuff from happening in my business. And you know what I mean?

It just—

it made me a better businessman, to be honest, like significantly.

Yeah, no doubt. And it hardened us. It brought me and my business partner together closer. I mean, I don't think we've ever been closer than during that time frame. Um, of course, we've had two other business partners before that, different ventures. We had a life insurance premium finance company um, he ended up running off with a bunch of money, embezzlement. And then we had a company that was— we, we started out with another partner in Anchor, um, uh, many, many moons ago when we very, very first started, and he was embezzling money, so we had to kick him out. Um, and it's just gotten to the point now where it's like, well, for there for a while in 20— really in 2017, we— when we got our ears boxed with that it was almost like the last straw. We, we've been through 2 or 3 embezzlements. Um, I had Channel 2 News show up at my door saying, hey, are you Chris Bryan? Are you the owner of Anchor Financial Group? And I'm like, uh, yes. I mean, it's first thing in the morning, I just got done with my workout, coming in, um, and the camera's in my face and there's like, well, what do you know about your agent that just got arrested for pedophilia? I'm like, Uh, nothing, thank you. Close the door. I didn't want to comment. Call my attorney. He goes, uh, well, who is it? I'm like, I don't know, who is it? Uh, so I start calling agents, and of course anybody that's not answering is suspect. I just want to kill him, right? Um, so it turns out it was an agent that was still on our website as an agent, which is where they found him. So they just did a Google search of his last name, popped up as one of our agents with his picture. And, uh, he, uh, was arrested for child pornography, um, and, uh, it was like his third offense. Had no idea. And then, um, he had— we— he had— we had actually let him go 4 months prior to for conduct unbecoming. We just hadn't cleaned the website up yet without him on there. Um, it just was— we didn't know about all that. Um, so I mean, we've just been through all of this stuff, right? And, and we just decided, I'm done with agents. I don't want to hire any more agents. I could sit here at my desk and make a million dollars a year. I don't need all that trouble and all that pain in the ass. And we just became isolated. Phil and I just worked ourselves— we had our few agents that still stuck around. But that's the other thing, is when we had that $2 million chargeback, we started talking about it and complaining about it and doing all these different things, rolling our eyes. I mean, What do you not do? I mean, who do you tell? Who do you not tell? And it's just like, it's such a shock that it finally got out. Well, that should have been confidential information because we lost 30 agents. Yeah, like the very next month, one of them being one that I served in the military with that I brought into this business because he feared that Anchor was going down because of that chargeback. And I said, crazy, standby for heavy rolls. That's not the way this is going to go down. Yeah, so we turned it around. But that's, that's— it's really easy to get isolated, especially as a leader when you're trying to build a team and you're thinking, this guy's, you know, freaking nutball. How do I know if this new guy's going to be in? Yeah, which is how we got around to creating Wealth Warriors. And Wealth Warriors is a background check system that is a third-party check for an agent. So an agent can actually go in and validate themselves to the general public and say, here I am, I'm of good standing, I've got a good background history, I'm not going to go— I don't have 6 DUIs. I mean, you could probably name 10 people right now, John, right? 500 right now. So, but that's the thing, is the state does their little background check and the companies do their little background check. We do a military-grade background check, which is a little bit different. Um, they don't have the FBI showing up at their door or anything like that, but yeah, those people with clean histories brag about that because it's, it's not as common as you might think to have good people handling your Social Security number and all these different things. So we have not even actually blasted that to the public yet.

Yeah.

So, and of course I was on Cody's, um, Shark Tank. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and there's, there's 3 of those guys are leaning in hard um, and, and doing— we're going to be doing some great things. But I think the, the idea is just in its infinite infancy, and just getting more people involved is—

what's the difference between it and the background check a carrier does?

Well, we go a little bit more in depth, we go farther back, and we also have— we do it annually. So in other words, if someone comes in, they pay their first up, they do their background check for all the way back. And then we're going to do it annually automatically from that point on. So the client knows, the customer knows, they can always go to that site and see their name, their agent's name in green saying that they are a, uh, they are an Elite member. And, uh, that it doesn't matter if they're property and casualty, it doesn't matter if they're, you know, a securities advisor. There's different, all different things that you can do.

Makes sense.

So it's just a way to validate people, and especially like like you guys calling over the phone, they don't know the people, those people from Adam. Yeah, with the new lead programs, things like that, they're going to have this name, but they still don't know them from Adam. So one of the things I do, and I teach my guys to do, is send a text, actual link to— say, I'm sending you a text right now. This link is taking you to a third-party website. It's not affiliated with me. This is something I do for my clients. I am a member of Wealth Warriors. What does that mean? That means that I undergo a military-grade background check, not only in the beginning but every single year, for your protection, Mr. and Mrs. Klein. Make sure you know you're dealing with somebody that knows how to handle Social Security numbers, know how to handle, uh, your personal information. I'm not going to go stealing it, running off with it, any of that kind of stuff. And you can actually go, go there, see all about me, all the states that I do business in. You can see my license number. You can do all that right there. So It gives a quick conversation. And as soon as I started incorporating that in every one of my sales— financial sales, uh, anything to do with life, Medicare— older people are, are constantly under attack for stupid stuff, right? And that's really where final expense lies, is all the, the older folks, and they're always scared about that. So that's, that's why we created WealthWares, because I don't want somebody that The guy that did the chargeback had been, had been charged 3 times for domestic abuse. Once, twice against his wife, once against his daughter. I went to church with this guy for 17 years, ushered with him at church. Damn. How well do you really need to know someone? If I'd have done a background check then, I never would have hired him because of that. Yeah, you know, it makes sense. Same thing with the pedophilia. He had had charges before that got— there were felonies that got busted down to a mil— or he got pled down to a misdemeanor.

Yeah.

And was able to get through the licensing process.

They let a lot of people through that process.

Let's just say that they miss a lot, and we just try to make it evident, you know. And I'm not saying that people don't get a second chance, or you have to walk it.

Yeah, at least you have information to make a choice. Yeah, it gives you information to make a choice now, right?

And it doesn't put the information up for the client, it just tells them they're, they're a member or not a member.

Yeah, but me hiring someone, I can know more and go like, now I have a— I have information that I didn't have otherwise. I can choose to proceed or not.

That's exactly right. You say, at least I know that this guy has got a good background. And how do people— that doesn't mean that he's not going to be in, you know, yeah, yeah, correct, the road Uh, but at least you'll know because we'll get— we're going to do it on that next year. And if something stupid happens and, you know, he gets some kind of charges that were up against him, and yeah, at least you're going to know about it. You decide from there.

It's not going to solve all the world's problems, but it helps a little bit, you know, because you have good people that do stupid shit when they get under financial stress. I've had great people with no backgrounds, you know what I mean? It's just like in a pinch, in a bad spot, and they do something stupid, which is why the combination of something like that and really learning how to watch your business and pay attention and not take— you know what I mean? Just like understand your business and watch your book and, you know, do checks and follow up with clients. Like, we just— we do a lot of stuff to, to prevent things as well.

That's good. How do people get—

if they want that or get interested in that deal, where do they just go online?

They can actually just Google Wealth Warriors. It'll pop up. It'll come to the top of Google. But, um, wealth-warriors.org. And, uh, Wealth Warriors Foundation is is, um, uh, they could literally sign up online and, and they pay a fee up front, and then they pay a monthly fee that's about the size of a Netflix membership. So they get a lot of cool stuff with it. They get a, uh, one of the coolest travel industry things. Like a lot of these things, we do road shows and things like that with Cody. I'll go into my Wealth Warriors system where it might be $200 or $300 it'll drop it down to like $158 for like 2 or 3 nights, and I've saved $300. That paid for my annual membership right there. Oh no, you know, so those, those things help. But that's all part of the membership that they get. And if they travel or with their family or without it, uh, there's everything from Disney all the way— there's like 700,000 different things they can do worldwide, uh, for travel, hotels, planes, thing— hotels is probably the biggest savings on that front. Um, but day in, day out stuff too, you know. So if it's a new agent just trying to get started, a lot of times they're just trying to justify $25 a month, right, or what it might be. But, um, it's, it's really essential to them growing because it gives them— if somebody Googles their name, they got one more place for it to fall up to, to come under their Wealth Warrior, you know. So, um, but once we get a good solid base nationwide of agents, then we're going to start taking it to to the consumer. So, you know, just like I think I said with Cody, is, is it's kind of half, um, Angie's List and half Better Business Bureau. The only difference is, is we do a military-grade background check in addition to all that. So someone wants that person to handle their life insurance, or they want to just see— I want to talk about somebody about Medicare, I'm going to go there and I'm going to look. And those people that do Medicare and they've done the background checks, those are the people I want to do business with.

Makes sense.

I love it, dude.

I love it. Well, give them something, whatever you want to end with, anything you want to cover we missed, or you speak a lot, if you want to give someone something, I don't know, something of value, inspire them, whatever you want, dude.

Just, you know, I think, um, it's interesting you say that, you know, Speaking in front of people has been a new thing for me. Not, not speaking in front of people, keynote speaking in front of people has been a relatively new thing. Um, I got started in it because Cody taught a class on it and Coach Burke taught a class on it, and I got involved with it there. Um, and I really didn't think I had a voice to say anything. Nobody wants to hear all the shit I've been through in the military. They don't want to hear about what I've been through in business. And he's like, And it's the contrary to that. And I think Coach Burke says it well, everybody's got a story to tell. And, but I think my story resonates with a lot of people because the keynote side of what I do is teaching people how to pay attention to their business like they were fighting a war. And if they're fighting a war, you've got all kinds of enemies. You are opposed. You are in a situation where you're going to be attacked one way or another. Whether you're a leader, um, or you are just following a leader, you're going to see things happen just like on the battlefield. Obviously it's not life or death, but financially it very well could be life or death. So treating it seriously, um, and taking it seriously— I didn't take my business seriously for the first 8 to 10 years. I I was in it had I really leaned in and, and taken it seriously. Um, you know, I was just, I was just happy to make over $100,000 a year because I was the first person in my family to do that. Um, at the time. Um, and then from there it was just one of those things where I'm, I've gotta, I've gotta get better, I've got to do this, I gotta start investing myself. And you're sharpening your sword. You know, so to speak. So in keynote speaking, I talk to businesses, I talk to HR groups, um, that get together, I talk to teachers unions, I talk to high school kids, I talk to— you name it, I've probably been in front of it. Veteran groups, you know, no one can speak to another veteran like a veteran, especially a combat veteran that's been through it. They've seen some shit. And I think the idea is just trying to figure out connection to people in ways that is maybe a little different than what they've heard. You know, and I'm probably going to be talking— I think I've been invited to speak at 8% Nation again this year. And I talk a lot about this, but it's about taking the high ground. You know, in battle, you want the high ground. And from the high ground, Like right now you're on the high ground. You are. You're the high ground. You've got a base. You've got this high ground. You can see the battlefield.

Yeah.

So you either one of three things. You're on your way to the high ground. You're at the high ground or you're trying to keep the high ground. That's really the whole idea in business, right? So if we want to take the high ground, we've got to get ourselves in a position to where we can combat whatever is on the high ground. And take that high ground either from someone or get there with someone. And I think obviously do that as a team, we do that as, uh, smart, uh, strategy, right? Um, but all those things are just what are you willing to do, what are you willing to sacrifice? Because if you're not willing to sacrifice what you want, just became the sacrifice. And then what really kind of blows me away is a lot of people will go and ask advice of people that don't have what they want. Don't ask advice from people that don't have what you want. If you've got a nice house or you got this or got that, how'd you get there? I want to go talk to that guy. He's got a, you know, 10 businesses and he's running them like a freaking sewing machine. It's just freaking going. I want to talk to that guy. Yeah, I want to talk to a John Wetmore. I want to talk to the guy that's got this figured out, right? I'm going to talk to the guy that's been in the business 6 months and thinks he knows it You know, those kinds of things are just crazy to me. I don't go to the battlefield and talk to a new guy that's just going on the battlefield. I want to talk to the, the, the, the guy that's been out here fighting the battle for months and years at a time, because he's got the wisdom to know what to do where I don't get killed. And I'm going to follow that guy to the high ground because I know he's going to go there. Yeah, most people just don't think of it that And you got to think that battle is every single day. That battle happens every day in your mind. It happens. And you got so many things, um, going on. But really, that's the whole keynote speak side, um. But man, hey, thanks for having me today, brother. Appreciate you, dude. I love it.

Enjoy seeing what you're doing and enjoy spending time with you when we're out there traveling. And I'm certain I will see you soon. I'll be, I'll be in Chicago and then I'll definitely be at Uh, you going there?

Yep, I'm gonna be in Chicago.

Yeah, I'll see you up there, and I'll obviously— I'll be in Springfield, so I'm sure we'll come across each other plenty. Appreciate your time, dude. Thanks for sharing. Get back to killing it, bro.

It's an honor, man. Thanks again. Appreciate you, bro.

Later. Take care.