How to Close 90% of Your Sales, Winning Lead Strategy, & More! ft. Tony Holland | Ep21

The lead is only as good as the man or woman holding that lead. If you have great leads, that's because the person holding the lead, that's great. If you have leads that suck, that tells you a little bit about the person that's holding those leads. And I hate to be blunt about it, but the leads don't make the sale.

Sup y'all, it's John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insights Podcast. Got my dude Tony Holland on, good friend. Fellow Integrity partner, CEO of Global Premier Benefits and Insurance Machine. Dude's been in the business a long time, knows how to sell, knows how to build, knows how to teach, exit a company, all kinds of good stuff going on we're going to cover. So appreciate you getting on, dude. Can you hear me clean?

Yeah, I'm here, brother. Here. I love it. Fired up. Let's go.

All the awards in the background, which are just a piece of his, says he knows what the eff he's doing. So we're going to talk about it. I love watching your social, dude. Travel all over teaching people how to do this business, speaking at a lot of events. I saw some cool stuff you got coming up.

Yeah, man, just, just trying to pay it forward, brother. You know, I know there's a lot of people in our industry, man, paying it forward and tenfold. I just want to be one of those, just giving back what was given to me.

Yeah, same, dude. Yeah, that's why I think we connect a lot on that. Yeah, trying to help. And you're, you're definitely doing more than you quote unquote, need to.

Well, you know, a lot was getting poured into me, like when I used to coach football back in the day. And it was one of the things that our coaching conclaves— we used to go away together with a bunch of coaches, 300, 400 coaches, and just collaborate together. One thing we always said was poured in us, we're going to pour it to the next generation of coaches. And that's kind of what I want to do, is pour what I had was given to me over 30-some years now, because I've learned from some of the greats that you have, from, yeah, uh, you know, Hubert Humphreys, Bernard Rappaport, uh, Jack London, some of the best legends in insurance, W. Clement Stone. So, uh, Brian Tracy, Tom Hawkins, just want to pour what was given to me back into other people. I think, I think, I think we have a duty to do that, John. We really do. Yeah, we do.

I agree. You have learned from some cool people. What I always like every time I talk to you, dude, and especially when I see— every time I see you, first of all, You take notes everywhere you go, which is the coolest thing.

Right here, bro.

Always, always learning.

See, right here, brother. I'm ready, I'm ready, man. I always got it by my side, ready. I sleep with it because I get these ideas in the middle of night. I get up and write it down. Yeah.

Hey, that's a hell of a tip right there. Do you like— do you— how many notebooks do you have, bro? 30 years you must have.

Uh, I got, I got a library of notebooks. I go through probably a book like this at least twice a year, full of notes. I'm always taking notes. I think it's so important because, you know, my mind runs a mile a minute, John, and a lot of ideas come to me. And to me, I was always a student of this business because, as you know, I went to Johns Hopkins University and studied. I was a pre-med student. So I mean, I was always taking notes. I mean, you had to just to keep up with the, uh, some of the smartest kids in the world. I'm like, you know, the only way I can keep up and, and and be my best, I have to take notes, man. So I take notes from you. I mean, many things I do in my business comes from other people. I didn't invent any of this. I didn't create any of it. I just took the best from some of the best in the business and made it my own.

Yeah, no doubt. I want to— I want to spend some time in your library reading all your notes.

Yeah. A lot of people call it chicken scratch.

So if you can read chicken scratch, I am fluent in it because it's how I write too.

My, my—

sometimes look at my own notes and I'm like, I show it to Amanda, I'm like, what was that? What did I write here? Do you have any idea? And I need some help like translating my own writing a lot.

So, well, a lot— it's like, it's, it's standard print along with cursive, so I go back and forth sometimes. I don't know if that's how my mind works. I go back and forth on it.

I love it. You know what's cool is I've obviously— I know a lot of people have built agencies. Yours obviously is one of the larger for sure. Um, but dude, you like know sales inside out too. And some of the stuff even you taught me, because we've obviously talked— you're, you're doing— you did a ton of kind of Medicare space now, and you're a big final expense guy. And I like some of the sales stuff that you've even taught me. Um, and you know, I've— in, in terms of like getting business in unique ways, you know, you're It's funny, you hear the term like free leads a lot, and the way you may generate free leads is very different than what people typically assume free leads means, right?

Right.

You know, so I would love to start out there, dude, and we'll certainly get into some of the higher level stuff down the road a little bit. I would love to hear some of your sales stuff, bro.

Well, I've always said this, and, um, I, I, starting all the way back in 1994 with, uh, American Income Life and Bernard Rapoport's company. And, you know, I think leads are great, it's a great starting point. But the lead— please note this to your audience— the lead is only as good as the man or woman holding that lead.

Amen.

Now think about that. You either have great leads— if you have great leads, that's because the person holding it, that's great. If you have leads that suck, that tells you a little bit about the person that's holding those leads. I hate to be blunt about it, But the leads don't make the sale. I've tried 100 times to get a lead to hold this ink pen. It still ain't hold it yet, okay? It won't hold it, you know. I'm the one that makes the sale. The agent makes the sale. See, the people don't buy leads, they don't buy, you know, rates, they don't buy the company, they don't really buy the presentation. Who do they buy? They buy you. You know, so if you're making sales, whether it's with leads, no leads, free leads, TV leads, direct mail leads, social media leads, it comes down to the person that's holding leads. I just wanna make sure we're clear on that because, you know, sales is an art form and I've learned from some of the best. I named some of them earlier, but Tom Hopkins was probably the best trainer I had. I got to know him on a personal level, but I'm like, if I wanna be the best at this, I'm gonna learn from the best. So I studied him inside. I went to all his boot camps and trainings back in the day. Then it was Brian Tracy, you know, then I did a lot of work with Tony Robbins. You know, to me, you know, sales is like singing or dancing, you know, you know, you gotta master the craft and repetition is the mother of mastery. And the more you do it, the better you're gonna get. And I was just smart enough to learn from other people. Like, why do I wanna wait 20 years to be successful with something? I wanna be successful now. So I'd read a lot of books and listen a lot of, uh, my audio. I was always listening to stuff in my car over and over and over again because I wanted to make that 20 years experience of mine within the next 2 or 3 weeks. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah.

So in terms of the leads, be more specific about that. Hopefully I just clarified that up front, but be more specific what you want me to drive home to your audience in regards to leads.

Yeah, I think what, you know, since you play in more arenas, you know what I mean? Like, I was very heavy in the life side only. I don't know much about your traditional space. I'm learning it, obviously, but I don't, you know, it's not my forte. But I think it's really cool whether it's cross-selling or the terminology you want to use is like generating multiple options or chances of business from an individual client. I would love for you to dive into that.

Yeah. So, you know, we, you know, so I like to do a lot of grassroots marketing and in combination with cross-selling. So, you know, we want to— on the cross-selling aspect, it's like the old commercial that you've seen from State Farm. It's been around forever, that whole bundling thing. And if you look at State Farm's logo, that was written in— drawn in 1921, John, 1921. And the original logo had life, it had, it had, it had auto, it had home. They were preaching cross-selling back in 1921 before most of us were even thought of. And of course they've expanded, they do a lot more products now than ever, but that's their logo they still use today. And to me, most one-dimensional agents I find out are short-lived. You have to diversify. So if you're doing final expense, which is where I got my start at, you know, with final expense back in the day, as you know, I helped found a final expense company, built several big final expense companies. And, you know, I used to be on the lead side, develop leads, develop commercials. I've done it all from the top down, from knocking on doors to being, you know, an executive at an insurance company that I actually was part owner. And to me, what I'd like to do with the leads is make sure I'm not only cross-selling with every lead, but I'm grassroots marketing on every lead. I want to get referrals, and referrals are important. I always had a rule when I got referrals, I want to try to get at least 10 in each household. I didn't ask for referrals. A lot of agents, they're asking for them, and then they wonder why they're not getting them. I get referrals. Does that make sense? There's a difference than asking Okay, and then getting them. Does that make sense? It does. So how do I get them? So what I always did, and it goes all the way back to my time in American Income Life, we always had a giveaway, something tangible to give away to get the referral. So I would wrap up, for example, be with the clients and, Miss Johnson, really enjoyed spending time with you today. I've helped you. I named all the things I helped her with, especially the free stuff. I do a free will, you know, a free vision prescription, hearing, and dental package, you know, debt counseling, mortgage assistance. I have all these great little tools packaged together and I give I'm giving that away, you know, and it has a monetary value to it, but I'm giving it away. I did it all the way back in 1994. Back then it was called CoHealth, sponsored by American Income Life. But we did that to get more referrals. So I would give away something tangible that could help change that person's life, save them, you know, you know, $200 on a pair of glasses, save them up to 75% on the prescription drugs, you know, save them up to 50%, you know, on hearing aids, anything like that. A will. What does a will cost? $3,000, $4,000 to set up at an attorney's office. I can give away like that, I would give that away in my presentation. And then at the end of the presentation, it was always a campaign. It was always a crusade. Miss Johnson, I'm here to try to make an impact in our community. There's a lot of people that don't have these, you know, amazing, enriching benefits I just shared with you today. And most of these things that go through the list of the 8, 9, 10 things I did for— they didn't cost her a dime. I said, I would like to be able to give this to other people and your family and your friends. What's your son's name? What's your mom's name? See, I would go for the name first. I would make suggestions, which is so much easier to get referrals. Say, do you know of any? That's what weak agents and unprofessional agents— do you know anybody I could talk to to help them sell them insurance? I never said that. I say, Miss Johnson, I want to be able to help people in your family and make a difference in the world. I'm here to change lives and pay this forward. What's your brother's name? What's your sister's name? What's your mom's name? And I would write the names down on a sheet that had 10 slots on it. Then I say, Miss Johnson, be easy for me to really get this out to them in an efficient manner because these benefits are so valuable. You have a black book or your phone, I can look into them, get their exact address. So I want to make sure this gets out to them. I get their address next, then I make sure I get the phone number, and then I would give them a little Post-it note. I had these notes made. I'm having them here for you today, but I had them drawn up. It was actually pre-printed that I would have that client call them. You need to call Ricky, your brother. You need to call Bertha, your sister. You need to call your mom. In Victoria. And I would make the list. I had a pre-printed Post-it note, okay? And I would stick it right with the materials again. I said, you need to call them by tonight. And then I want to incentivize. I said, you do that for me, if you call all them by tonight, let's give you— I'm gonna give you until tomorrow night. You call them, let them know I am, that I'm a great guy, I'm definitely a good-looking guy, great sense of humor. Tell them I got some great stuff to share with them. I'm going to actually send you, send you lunch. Is that okay? You know, and make sure you're mindful of, you know, you know, the gift laws in regards to your state. But I would send them lunch, you know, let me get you lunch, let me get you, you know, Starbucks, anything like that to incentivize them to call the referrals. Would it make it easier for me to go out there and call? So when I usually call them within 2 to 3 days, they already know everything about me. They've already heard, talked to Miss Johnson. So yeah, my sister told me about you. Oh yeah, come on over anytime. It made life easier. And so by the way, I've always left— I almost left this out— always left the last one, the 10th one was my grassroots off each lead. Write this in your notes, guys. You want to grassroots every lead you got. Got it? Because see, that way now you took— which referrals are infinite— now you can take your whole referral generation system to a whole nother level and get as many free leads as possible through organizations like church groups, the— of W's I used to hit hard. I used to do a lot in food banks, especially on the Medicare Advantage side, because what I love about Medicare Advantage, you don't to pay a premium. So you can be a homeless person, as long as you have an address and a Medicare ID card, I can get you coverage. You know, I can help change that person's life that's going through a tough time in life. You know, so I would grassroots gyms because we have a great program through Silver Sneakers and Silver and Fit. We also have all these other opportunities. The key thing at the end of when you get that group You know, you sit with Ms. Johnson, she gives you the church or the VFW or the gym she goes to. The key thing is go there with her at the next meeting so she can be kind of your liaison, the concierge to guide you, to connect you, make her kind of your facilitator to connect you with the leadership of that organization. That way was so easy for me. My best day, John, I did over 80 enrollments in one day and people said, that's impossible. Like, yep, it is impossible and it's impossible for you. I think all things are possible, John. If I can do it, you can do it. No, ain't no way you can do 80. Ain't enough time in a day. I'm like, you're right, for you it's not. For me, I did 80 sales in one day in a church group, and it blew me away. Southern Baptist Church, man, they got down in that church, man. They were playing the bass and, you know, playing a guitar and the drummer on stage. They had the whole choir all dressed up. It was 150 degrees inside that church, and we got down. And then they ate. See, I'm a Catholic, man. We get a wafer and a sip of wine at a Southern Baptist church at the end where they have at the reception, man. It's like a Thanksgiving dinner on steroids.

Yeah, that is true. I love it, dude. It's so sick.

Listen, I'm going to give you another tip. You got to have fun, John. Too many agents are doing this as a job. I have fun, man. When I first started doing Medicare, we had what's called the Extra Help program. Chubby Checker used to be— remember old Chubby Checker? He was one of the spokespersons for it. He said getting the Extra Help program is easy as doing the twist. And I would play The Twist in every house and every seminar I did for seniors to get the people— I don't care if they're in a wheelchair, I won't help you dance today. We won't get the blood flowing. So when I go in a house, they got entertained. It's showtime, like the Apollo. It's showtime at the Apollo.

I love it, I love it. You know that some agents don't have a damn personality.

Hello, you ready to go get one?

You gotta go get one.

You know what, God only gives us a short period of time, John. I maximize it. We all have a starting date, we definitely going to have an ending date, and I want to pay it forward, and I want to make sure every interaction— I don't care if my client made $12,000 a year or $112,000 a year or more, I'm going to treat them all equally, you know. I want to entertain them, I want to have them have fun with me. We're going to be fam. I used to say this, John, you guys can steal this quote: Somebody's getting adopted today, Miss Johnson. Either I'm going to adopt you or you're going to adopt me, but we're going to be family whether you like it or not.

Okay.

And they would chuckle and laugh and I'd give them a hug. And when I'm in the audience with 80, 90, 100 people, whatever, I do the same thing. Somebody's getting adopted today, you know, y'all gonna be part of my extended family. This is going to be a reunion when we get done. And if you guys are really blessed, it's going to be a revival. If you come to my events, I'm going to tell you, I have them laughing, I have them crying, I have them dancing. I mean, that's just what I do. I mean, you guys have heard of— I'm sure you guys have heard of Coach Michael Burt. He's coined a phrase. I've been doing it for years, but he coined the phrase edutainment. You know, educating and entertainment together. But I've been doing that for 30 years. I mean, people don't know this. I actually got one of the grassroots organizations. It was a prison guard union that nobody could get. I got it. And like people said, you actually worked in— I actually did insurance selling in prisons. You talk about a life-changing experience, a scary experience. And they gave me a warning. They had like an hour workshop with you to make sure you don't do this, don't do that. They ask you for anything and they— those prisoners are clever. They were like, can I borrow an ink pen? I had to always say no. I didn't make eye contact. I was there to do a job, but I had to sit in the cafeteria room with the prisoners and the prison guards to do their insurance because they wouldn't let me come to the house.

Excuse me, like health insurance? What kind of insurance?

It was mostly life and supplemental health. And nobody would go in there. I mean, I did groups that people wouldn't do. I got the Maryland Watermen's Association, was the only one to get that whole group. 5— get this, talk about a large group— 5,000 people let me do their insurance on an individual basis. So I would go to all their, their monthly meetings for the Watermans on the Eastern Shore, and I would sign these people up for their, their life and supplemental health program. And they said, how did you get that group? Nobody can get in. You know why? Because I invested time and energy. I didn't try with a large group like that selling the first time. I presented myself as somebody there trying to change their life. I make sure they understand, you know, where I was coming from, where they were coming from, and I build a relationship. It's a relationship business.

Yeah.

Okay, we're building relationships with these people. These people, you're— regardless of their age, are going to be part of your extended family. And that's kind of how I looked at it. Okay, that's how I looked at it. So I know that's a long answer to a simple question, but I want to make sure I pour it into your people.

What up, y'all? Officially releasing my book. You can go on and order it now at johnwetmore.com or click the link below. That's where I go over the 6 basic principles I implemented to go from a struggling agent for my first couple of years, issuing nearly $500,000 a month. And go through stories and examples and exercises that you can do to implement for yourself. Appreciate it. Again, JohnWetmore.com. Get yours later. I love it, dude. You know, I have a tough time and a low tolerance for people who say they got no money so they can't get started. You know what I mean?

That's just an excuse. Yeah, that's a loser's excuse. And I'm sorry to say it that way, but that's part of our problem in our society. Most people have been conditioned to lose by the school system, by society, by social media, and they're just not willing to step out for themselves. You know, you gotta want it. Like, I think you said this 2 years ago when you and I first started talking, that you wanted motivated people. They gotta have it in them. And you're so right. That was one of the best things you taught me when we were first working together, when I became an Integrity Partner with you. And, you know, you're so right. And Coach Burt says, is I want to work with people that are looking to work with me. I don't have time to get a guy out of bed and help them right now. My, my platform, I only work with 7-figure guys now. I, I had to make a change. I'm like, if they're not making at least that close to high 6-figure, 7-figure, I can't work with them. I'd delegate— now I would delegate them I mean, I don't, I don't thumb my nose up at agents out there that are making 30 grand and trying to make 300 grand, but I'll forward them to somebody else on my team that can do that. And I got that from, you know, Andy Albright, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Him and I are really good friends. And that's, that's something I picked up from him. He goes, man, you're trying to help those that don't want to help themselves, man. You're doing too much. I used to be my biggest thing. Even Brian Tracy and Tom Hopkins back in the day when they evaluated what I was doing back in the '90s and early 2000s, they go, you do too much, Tony. You know, and when I met with Andy Albright, I actually went to his house down in Florida and he says, you take all these agents you got and narrow them down to your top 10 and you build them and then go find 10 more to build them. You need to be working with the players. Does that make sense?

Yeah, he was great at that. I started in insurance with him. That was my first run at insurance was in his deal. But yeah, dude, I started with Andy. I, you know, I was, I was a newbie in the business, part-timer, and working with him, just getting a kind of watch how he navigates this business, dude, was— I learned a lot from him.

We were big competitors back in the day when he first started NAA, and, uh, I, I started a company, I'm sure you heard of them, Senior Life. I was one of the original guys that got that started back in 2000, 2002, I think, that range, you know. Yeah, all the time. Yeah, they've gone— they've done well. I mean, I'm happy for them. I was there 10 years and, you know, did a lot of great work there, but God had a better plan for me and I think sometimes you're in some people's lives for a season, sometimes it's a lifetime. But it was the best move I ever made, get into Medicare and diversifying. And now, you know, being an Integrity partner, I sold two companies to Integrity and now got other ventures, as you know. And, you know, AI, you know, own an AI company. I have a private equity company now. I have a venture capitalist business now. So the last couple of years, man, I've been just going big, brother, just going big. But I do want to put a disclosure I still love people that are making 30 grand a year, don't get me wrong, but I can't be their personal— I can't work with a guy every day for an hour, 2 hours every day. So I want to make sure we're clear on that. That's why I have big summits and group meetings and they can join me in it. But if anybody ever needs to reach me, I'm the only one out there. I'll give my personal cell phone number, John. If it's a dire necessity, I won't be there for them. I just want to make sure we're clear on that. I just can't be an ongoing—

you can't be all day, every day. Yeah, I feel it, dude. I struggle with it too.

You know what I mean?

I want to help people, but I'm like, But if I helped every single person that needed to figure out like how to get the simplest thing, I'm like, I would— I wouldn't be able to run a company. Yeah, you know, and it is a tough part of building the businesses, you know, kind of— and I don't know how to say it, not come off as mean, but kind of moving on from some people. That was tough to continue to grow and, you know, I mean, kind of narrow down who you focus on, right? Um, you know, it's a tough phase of it.

Well, you know what, you got to bless them and wish them well, man. And, um, And there's just certain people, as you know, there's a lot of toxic people in this business. I mean, I parted ways with this past year and a half, 3 of my top people, just, just toxic, you know. I mean, I'm sure you get that too. It's just even when they're doing well, it's just like, I can't deal with that negative. I'm, I'm 54 years old, man, and that's probably— if I look back on my career, it's probably the biggest mistakes I've made was hanging on to toxic people too long, you know. And whether that's in your personal life or in your— definitely in your business life, it's a cancer, man, because you can never make them happy. They're always narcissists. They got those narcissistic personalities. You give them 50 brand new free leads, it's not enough. You know, you do a TV commercial for us, not enough. I used to do social media stuff for guys and pay for it, it's not enough. Shit, I bought two guys Rolex watches, wasn't enough. It's like, it's never enough, it's never enough. And then never enough, never satisfied, complain, or negative, or bitter, and angry. And you're always the bad guy. They're going to always make you out— and that's what, that's what narcissists do. They make everybody else be the villain. The company screwed them, their FMO screwed them, You— everybody screws them, but they're perfect. They're right. You know what I mean? But it's funny. They never grow. They never get anywhere. They never do anything. Art Williams taught me back in the day. I know, you know, the great Art Williams, because he was kind of the god— one of the godfathers, him and Hubert Humphreys, who's a partner with us, as you know. He says, if you never, ever, ever want anybody to say anything ugly— he used ugly— bad about you, don't have nothing. Don't say nothing. Don't do nothing. Just be a nothing like they are. You know what? They've never made a statue of a critic, not once. So if you're going to be at a high level, you get it, John. I get it. You're going to have people throwing darts at you. And some of them, the people that you love to death, you know, did everything, tried to do one. It was never good enough. You know what? God bless you. I wish you well. You just need to move on and be able to have tougher skin with that. Not let that get you down. You know, we used to have a saying back and they put them out to pasture, let them go out there and fend for themselves and find out the hard way. But I got to move on to work with positive, good people that have God bad person in life that want to make a difference in the world. That's what I'm about.

Yeah, I love it, dude. I watch far too many people hang on to those, those types and those cancer and bend over backwards, and you know what I mean? It's like it just— they don't see, which I did that early on too, to be clear. I messed that up a bunch of times because you care.

You care, John, and I truly do care about people. And it's like, it's sad to have that, but this business has the whole gamut. You're going to have those toxic people, and, and usually why they're really good, they can't work in a corporate environment because they would drive everybody crazy. So they're great salespeople because they're driven, that, you know, they got an ego on the line. Narcissists usually are very good performers. They're just hard to work together in a team. They're like the Terrell Owens of the business, no matter what. Or was it Tony O'Brien? They're going to mess it up. And, and really, it's a psychological problem these people have, you know. And they don't usually— they don't learn until it's too late that they burnt bridges, like many of them do. They always burn bridges. And I find out after that a lot of them have drug or alcohol problems that actually made that situation even worse. But no matter what, you're the bad guy. That FMO is the bad guy. You know, maybe you should look in the mirror. The reason why you are where you are is because of the person you're looking at in the mirror. And that's to me, I think the thing I could— if I could go back, I would change, John. I would let those people go much sooner than I had. You know, the relief and the feeling you have when you can delete them from your phone and block them and just move on. You get this, and I had to go through a life coaching session to learn that because I wanted to be the nice guy. I wanted them to like Tony. Whatever, what do I got to do to make— yeah, let's go off to dinner, let's work this out. And they always know Tony was soon, they were just gonna get it. And it's like, you know what, timeout. 3 strikes for— we've gone through this scenario, this mountain 3 times. You know what, I, I give up. You know more than me. Go work for that other FMR. Go over there. You know, matter of fact, some of my competitors, I gladly send them Someone will call me up, the friendly competitors, like, why you— you signed this release way too quick. I'm like, yep, you'll find out. You'll find out, brother. I signed that real quick. Get it right. I don't care. But he wrote 500 apps a year. Yep, you'll find out, you know. And you also find out one of the competitors is doing a fraud investigation too, so you can have that too. So go for it.

Amen. Amen. I love it, dude.

It's amazing how perfect they are when you dive deeper, like You got a fraud problem here, you're an invector over here. Oh, but nobody else— nobody— everybody else in your life is the ones that screwed you over, but you're, you're an invector with 3 companies, you're banned at this company, okay, you got a lawsuit here, you know, you don't— you, you owe child support to your wife. I mean, come on, come on. But it's my fault.

It's Tony's fault. I love it. What would you say, dude? I was talking to a guy yesterday. I'm going to an event I'm going to be speaking at in a few months, and it's kind of a leadership type event, leadership-focused event.

Right.

Obviously, you lead a massive team. I would love to hear some of your thoughts on leadership style, things that work well for you to lead teams and quote unquote motivate teams.

And, you know, I mean, all the things you do to grow and scale.

I would— I'd love to hear some.

So I think first things first, you got to get yourself right. Uh, just like when I coached football, coached 13 years football, had, uh, 13 championships, and I had, uh, 5 state championships, built an incredible group of kids and coaches around me through those years. And I think you gotta, you gotta be able to do it first. I was a pretty good football player back in my days, high school and college. Um, and you got to lead by example. I always showed up first and left last. So I think my first tip to your team on this call, they got to lead by example. Okay. And then they got to apply the 4 principles that I learned from Ben Franklin. You know, Ben Franklin, the first self-made millionaire in America. He had 4 key principles that he lived by and what made him successful. Number 1, you got to be extremely frugal. Okay. When you're scaling and building business, you wouldn't believe people out there throwing money around like you're spending $80 grand a month for marketing. What are you doing? That's too— I mean, you could do that for half, you know. It's like amazing how many people just spend money just recklessly in this business, you know. You want to be about your EBITDA, you know. You want to lower expenses and have revenue, okay? Be tight on numbers. So number 1, he said be extremely frugal. Number 2, you have to have the endeavor to speak the truth. Be a man of integrity, even though sometimes the truth hurts. Because I used to say that to people, you might not like what I'm going to tell you on this call, but it's always going to be the truth. I'm going to tell you exactly what your challenge is, your problem is. If they're lazy, I'm going to tell them about how to fix it. But I always use the sandwich method. Tell your team to write this in notes. The sandwich method: always start out with something positive, correct them in the middle of the sandwich— that's the meat, that's what you need to fix. Get out of bed, get yourself together, stop watching TV, stop doing whatever you need to do. I want to be doing this. And then close it with something positive about that guy so he doesn't go away from that meeting feeling You just beat the crap out of them. Okay? So always tell the truth. Number 3, apply yourself industriously, which he means you got to work like stink, as Art Williams says. You got to have great work ethic. Your people need to go, God, that guy works. People on my team say he works, he outworks all of us. And to me, it's really not work, John. I love what I do. I love this. I know there's somebody on this call right now listening to you and I is going— the light bulb's going to go on. I know it. And it might be dozens, maybe hundreds, maybe thousands. I hope so. But I know if it's at least one, it's worth it. Okay. And then fourthly, speak ill of no person. And that's hard to do. It's very easy to get caught up in, you know, saying the wrong thing. Work hard, you know, be an example of a person that always is going to speak something good of somebody. Always try to be positive, you know, about it. And so I would say I would start with that. And my 3 tenets also would add to that: good attitude, strong work ethic was part of industriously, and know your skill sets. You got to read leadership skills. You got to learn about leadership. There's books out there that'll train you up. I mean, Coach Burke does a lot of workshops on leadership. So for me, I study other great leaders, you know. I study other people that are doing what I want to do. Back in the day, I wanted to be— like, I never worked with the man, but I wanted to do what Art Williams is doing. So I studied every leadership book and CD he ever had coming out. Cassettes back in the day, you know, before you were born, we had cassettes. We even had 8-tracks. Remember 8-tracks?

The 8-tracks were before me. I grew up with cassettes.

So So I was taught this one time, and I can't remember, it might have been Tony Robbins. He says, if you don't have any millionaires or billionaires in your life, you don't have that great leadership, bring them into your life.

Yeah.

And then he asked people, said in the audience, what do you mean by— you want— y'all want to know what I mean by that? You need to invest what's called auto you. Zig Ziglar used to talk about that. You want to have that leader beside you every single day while you're going to and from your appointments, to and from your, your daily activities. When I'm in my car, it's auto you. I couldn't tell you the number one song. Can't tell you the number one song in the last 20, 30 years because I don't listen to the radio. I'm always listening on something to get me better. So I would start with that. Be the kind of leader people want to follow. Then you want to— when you're building a team, you got to make sure you scale responsibly. Don't be a— be able to learn the art of delegation, John. Okay. You got to learn, like we were just talking earlier, you got to learn how to delegate to people, you know, and that's part of leadership too. Trusting your leaders to lead. For when I was coaching football, I had to coach my— let my defensive corner make his own call. I can't be coming in and correcting them during the game. It's going to, it's going to defeat his self-esteem. And actually, we're not going to get results. I'm actually overextending myself and I can't do the job as the head coach. So I got to let the offensive coordinator do his job, let the defense coordinator do his job, the special teams guy do his job, and then the specialty coaches do their job. I set the game plan, this is what needs to be done. Let's go to action and make it work. And I'll say another tip that'll help you on leadership, create that special environment. John, people want to belong to something special. Your leadership factory that you're building has to be something special, unique, that no one else has. And it starts with you as a leader. You know, you're like a beacon, you know, a catalyst for success. That's why you got to walk success, talk success, smell success. That's why I always look sharp, man. I just came from the Cigna Summit this week. My wife and I were the best dressed in the crowd, you know, because we were, we We've been doing that for 30 years. You know, we— people say you wear your wealth well. I said absolutely, because when I was taught back in the '90s, um, from Bernard Rapoport— he was a brilliant man, great leader, was— died a billionaire, you know, founder of American Income Life— he, he taught us this back then. You better look the part. He said, I want all y'all have nice cars, dress nice, look nice, speak nice, speak the right way, no cursing, no foul language, no He had a whole set of rules. You're going to be on his leadership team. And he wanted us to make sure we were that exact example. Because here's why. When people are in commission sales, especially insurance, they want to know the leaders living the life they want to lead. You know, that's why I don't wear hoodies to meetings. I know guys that do that. I'm like, dude, you're not going to attract the right crowd. You better have a decent car. You better have, you know, all the tools that makes you look successful. You got to live right and do right and be the right kind of leader.

Yeah, I love it, dude.

I love it.

It's cool watching you. Um, I watched you over the last year. It's like you've ramped up your recruiting.

Oh yeah, yep, absolutely. I doing a lot on social media, as you know, and, uh, I just bought into what I knew I needed to do. I did all this without social media. My biggest challenge— I want to thank you for this. You, you're the one actually helped me with this because I wasn't on social media. I wanted nothing to do with social media. I was one of those people probably in the old days, I won't ever touch a computer. Yeah, well, you, you Where are you now? You don't touch a computer. And like, I realized I was going backwards because I wasn't on social media because I just didn't like the negativity. I didn't like all the stuff that's going on with politics, especially the last 4 or 5 years. It's just a lot of nonsense, division and racism and garbage and crap. And I just didn't want to be involved in that. But I realized it's a must-play game. You know, it's like, why does Coca-Cola still need to run ads on TV? You got to be in the game, you know, or you're going to be out of the game. So, yeah, so I have ramped up the recruiting a lot. And I think what I'm appealing most to people is that I can take them to a promised land their current IMO, FMO can't. I'm actually doing things now to help people become partners. I've actually introduced— if you've seen some of my videos from Integrity, I've helped a bunch of guys become partners. And I'm doing— I got close to 24 now that I'm in the works of becoming partner. I got a list of 140 now that meet the qualifications, wanting to meet with me. I got 3 today after this call to talk to. So I kind of wanted to adapt like our great leader Brian Adams. Love Brian. I'm like, I'm gonna do another version of what Brian's doing. I'm looking for other partners too, you know, guys. I don't care if you're a team of 5 guys, you know, and you, you're, you're making good 6, you know, close to 7-figure money. You want to get to that next level and 10x your business? I'll help you do that. And then in that process, my goal is the next year or two to add you on the stage with guys like John Wetmore and Andy Albright. And Sean might become an Integrity partner. That's— see, what I try to do is what I do, and I learned this from Art Williams back in the day. I sell the dream to my team and sell the Crusade. The dream is the American dream is alive for you. You don't need to worry about who's in the office, whether it's Biden or Trump, whoever else they find to get in. Okay, you have your own economy to worry about. I don't care how much gas costs. People are shocked. How much is gas in your neighborhood? I don't know. Well, it don't matter to me when you're making that kind of money. I like— let's say inflation goes up 50%, that means I got to do 50% more money. That's all. People like us, John, we don't worry about those kind of things. And I want people in that position that you can live that lifestyle too. You know, it's not about flashing the nice Rolexes and the nice planes and the cars and all the toys. It's about that comfort. It's about peace of mind. You know, why people do what we do is because the hope of financial freedom. And that's what I offer them. Because I'm going to tell you this, we were the greatest company I've ever seen in this business. And I've seen some great ones from the days of Art Williams to, to W. Clement Stone's company. Combined insurance in my life. I've seen some— I've never seen anything like Integrity, brother. I've never. And, and you get this, most people, the lowlife people, the— I hate low— maybe not the right word, but the mediocre people out there don't get it. Our critics, they don't get it. You got to be in it and breathe it and understand to get it. When this thing goes public, I mean, we're going to be one of the largest IPOs in American history, man. I'm like, when I'm recruiting a guy, I'm like, I want you in there. Yeah, I'm already there. John Wetmore is already there. Andy Albright, Hubert— oh, I name a list of all the top power players, you know, the Jim Ashes of the world, all these great guys we have. Ryan Kemp, we're there, okay? There's 300 of us. We're not— men and women from all walks, we're not stupid people, okay? We see what's happening. I want you to be part of that club so that way your family can be in that cash-out period where, you know, you can get generational wealth. Are you willing to work for it though? Are we willing to pay the price like John and I did? Well, then if you're willing to do that, we can go to work and make something happen. We can make magic together.

Yeah, I love it. What do you tell the guys that want to build something to sell? Like, how do you guide them? What are the tips you give them? Things like that.

Yeah, I'm actually doing a workshop with Coach Bert. It's— I'm doing a webinar with him and Chase Groening. You know him?

Yeah, I've seen him. I follow him on social. I saw the thing.

He's become a good friend of mine. But I'm doing a workshop. I check my notes here. I think it's on— yes, the 24th. Of this month. I'm doing a webinar. Um, let me get the exact time. It's at 7 o'clock. You know, my camera just moved there. You might have to edit that. Okay. Uh, yes, Building an Empire with Coach Burt and Chase Groening, 7 PM Wednesday, July 24th. And I can get you guys that information, share with your team. So I'm going to be on there with Coach Burt and how to build an empire. Um, but, uh, you know, they'll be able to find it after too.

Because this will be out on YouTube. This will be on YouTube for, you know, I mean, so after it's done, will it be available?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I'll be recording of it. Yep. Awesome. So, so let's, let's get back to your questioning because I want to make sure I get that handled for you. Won't you ask that question for me?

Yeah, I mean, I think, dude, a lot of people ask, you know, I had someone send me a voice memo the other day and he's like, you know, hey, I'm just kind of getting started, got a handful of agents, I really want to sell my, my business, what advice would you give me? I hear that a lot.

Lot. Yeah.

So you're doing it at a high level. You're bringing on tons of partners. I'm watching you literally take people and put them in a position— obviously they're doing a good bit of the work, but you give them a lot of guidance, and I think it's— you're helping them do it quicker.

Yeah.

Your, your thoughts and advice. And if someone wants to one day sell a company, you know, what's that like?

I've got a high I'll give you some quick tips, and I've learned from some of the best in the business. I, I thank God I hired the right attorney, by the way. And any of you guys want to reach out to me, I can give him his name. But he taught me a lot about this. I spent a year with him before I made the move. And how my moves came about really came from an opportunity that didn't go well, uh, not because the company was bad or I was bad, but they said something to me. And I'm gonna tell you something, you challenge me, John, it's, it's lights out, brother. So they reached out to me through a friend. They said, hey, they're looking to buy your company. You're doing so many things. I was the largest IMO with Cigna. You heard of Cigna? Big multi-billion dollar company. Did over a billion in revenue for them. And, you know, word was on the street. They were out of Chicago. I was owning Chicago. I also built another company called Oak Street. I'm sure you heard of Oak Street Health. Helped build them. And, you know, I was their first IMO and had exclusive deal with them and got them on the map. And they're like, man, your name's all over Chicago. And I'm like, okay. We want to talk. Yep, they flew down to meet with me, and long story short, didn't work out. You know what they said to me? I said, what happened? You know, I got them my numbers, did all these things. They go, and we just don't think you're big enough. I'm like, what? Yeah, we're looking at someone that, you know, more in the, the, the 9-figure average. I'm like, I thought I was doing good. I was like, dude, I got the house, I got the car, this, this. And it gave me the wake-up call I need. I'm like, I'm not big enough. I should be doing more. So I knew one day it would have happened again. This is well before I met Bryan Adams and 3 other amazing companies that tried to buy my 2 companies, you know, the insurance companies I had. And I have other businesses too, but those are the 2 that in our space that were acquired. You know what I did? I said, you know, I'm gonna use this as fuel. I'm going, I'm going to have a 9-figure EBITDA. I'm gonna go get that now, brother. I'm not gonna have that happen again. Number 2, I polished up my business, you know. I looked at myself like, am I really that attractive? Of, you know, I'm a good-looking guy, don't get me wrong, but am I attracting terms of my business, you know? So I changed my logo. So I hired somebody to come in and redo my logo. So my logo, if you see the logos that pop up on an Integrity screen, mine always sticks out, okay? That was by design, you know. I redesigned my website. I hired a whole new company because the company I had before, just, it was, it was old, it was dated. So I hired a new company. You know what I did? I found the hottest website I saw and liked online, and I called the company, said, 'Can you do mine?' That's all I did. And they said, 'Okay, we'll do it for you.' And they were cheaper than the company I had before, you know. And then they go, 'Well, then tell us what you want it to look like.' I said, 'I picked out 3 of the best websites I've ever seen.' I said, 'I want you to make mine a combination of these.' So I redid my website. So you go to my website now, like, mine didn't have my face on it or my team's face. I my headshots. It has a lot more resource shows already. It just— it's a much better polished website. Then I had a CRM system, and so I made myself unique. So my CRM system was unique, you know, and customized. You got to understand, when someone's looking to buy your company, they want something no one else has, especially in our industry. Yeah, they're coming at— some of these deals are a dime a dozen. When I'm looking at guys' deals, I'm like, dude, you need to first of all clean up your website, clean up your— you need a new logo. You wouldn't believe people don't even have a logo. You wouldn't believe some people's name doesn't sound right. This one guy that wanted us to do a deal, I said, what's the name of your LLC? Was X— it was like NLX, uh, something else. It was like a bunch of initials. So what is that? He goes, oh, those are my initials and my kids' initials. I'm like, are you kidding me, dude? And no one's gonna buy that. And it was like 9 letters long, jumbled. I'm like, is that a Russian name or something? No, no, it's initials of people told my family, I'm like, no, we need a new name. So you need to look at your name. You got to understand, it's like buying a car. You want to— whenever you ever sold a car, John, don't you get it polished? Don't you get the, the tires done, the engine clean? You get a full detail job so it looks so— I— you have to get a full detail job on your business and the way it looks to the consumer and way it looks to the industry. So I did that. That's number one. You got to clean up your books. A lot of these guys come to me and I look at their books, they're co-mingling funds. They got a trucking business and they're also running an insurance business. They're co— you can't do that, you know. So you got to have the funds separate. You got to make sure you don't have any legal issues that are outstanding. So get those settled up, okay? So if you got somebody that's got an issue with you, find a way to settle that up because that's going to be a red flag to anybody want to acquire you. Also, another note, make sure you have a good presence online. You know, if you got people, you know, you know, attacking you and this and that online, you don't have a good reputation. So there's like these reputation online repair shops. Get it repaired. Another tip: get— become a member of the Better Business Bureau. You pay like $350. They do all— they even do marketing for you now, but they'll help protect your name. And people still check that out, and they allow you to use their logo, you know, Better Business Bureau, BBB. You know, accredited business, A+ rating. I've been using that for years and that works still. So, so make sure you lock down those relations with Better Business Bureau. Make sure you lock those down, the relationships you need, because that, that is so critical, John, in building. There's one second, one second. So my next tip then is making sure you're branding well, utilizing social media resources, John. You have to make sure you're doing that. Your name should be plastered everywhere. So a little thing I used to do back in the day, I made little, um, stickers, and everything I got from a carrier, I had my staff plaster it with my stickers. Boom, boom, boom. Sponsored by Tony Holland Global Premier Benefits. Boom, boom, boom. It was a book. If it was a kit, anything from any insurance carrier, anything we're going to get the client had my name, my company all over. I wanted to be a household name. You could do that for practically pennies on the dollar.

For it.

That's free advertisement, okay? I used to invest in calendars for the clients and for my agents so that way they knew who to deal with. You need to run your business just like any top real estate agent would or anybody in your industry. Copy a lot of what they do. This guy Craig Northrop, he, uh, was the top 8— one of the top agents in the country, number 1 in our region. Um, he had his best years during the years after the crash of '08, and you saw him everywhere. He took more business. 95% of those real estate agents were out of the business. He took all their business and never looked back. Why? He mastered the art of branding and getting out there and hustling, especially during tough times. And he put his name on everything. Everything had Craig Northrop on it. You got to make sure your name is everywhere. That's good, but branding— what other tip would you like, brother, in regards to that?

Dude, I think it's the, the common theme is you're going out there and finding what the top people are doing in any given category and literally just copy and pasting.

When I, when I coached football, my whole system was a hybrid. I actually, seriously, I took the best of this coach when I played, the best of this coach. I ran a single wing offense. I called it a hybrid because I would take the best of Rick Darlington of Apopka High School and add that to mine. Nothing, nothing I did on the football field I invented. I was just smart enough to use the the best of the best. So what I did going back in my early days, Sean, I found guys that I wanted to be like that dressed like me, was living the life that I wanted to have. Even going back to American Income Life, you know, my, my IMO back then was my first role model. I want to do whatever he had, you know. Then I found other people more successful than him. So I always sought out people that were the best, like you. I sought you out, you know, because I saw what you were doing. I'm like, you know what, John and I need to know something. I may know something something, something on him, but he definitely knows something, something on me that I don't have. I need to know his something, something and make it mine. I did that, you know, the same thing with Andy Albright, you know. I spent 3 hours from it and filled up a whole book of notes, you know, because that guy has, you know, 30 years of experience in this business, created a dynasty. I'm going to learn everything Kenny will give me in 3 hours. I wrote the whole time, you know. And you know what's funny, John? The people that are at the top, if you do it the right way they actually, uh, admire what you're doing. They actually are more, more giving and more willing to help you out. And Andy and I have been friends for years. We were competitors first, but it's like, you know, it's amazing how many people are so scared to approach the top. But I— they knew I wasn't gonna waste their time, John. You understand that? And by the way, I have a give-and-take relationship like you and I are doing together. It's a give and make. I've helped you, you've helped me. It can't be all you taking. What are you going to do? Like, I've helped Annie Albright, Ellie Nardo's helped me, you know. I've helped out, you know, Hubert Humphreys. Hubert Humphreys has helped me. You see that? You gotta have a reciprocal relationship. It can't be all you take it, take it, take it. What are you going to do to help them, you know? What do you do to give back to them, you know? So that's, that's another point I like to make sure that you understand. That relationship needs to be a reciprocal relationship.

I love it, dude. I would, um, I'd say we can— let's end with, you know, maybe anything you had in mind you wanted to give people that we didn't cover yet, or any just general advice, man, for, for people watching. You know, the goal is obviously for a ton of people to see this and have it be out there for a long time. And whatever we can do, dude, I'm all in.

But by the way, any of your team members out there want to call me, and I don't pillage people, I don't. But if they ever want to call me, I've always had an open door policy to anybody that's serious about building. You know, don't ask me to get you out of bed or give you the motivation. You got to come, like you said, motivated. But I'll help anybody. I've had a lot of FFL guys call me.

Yeah.

And, you know, some of them are on your team. I'm like, hey, you're with John Wetmore, whatever you need, man. I'll help anybody. You know, if you want to grow and build, I'll help you. So I would say seek out top leadership, read and study the best of the best. Um, cut out the noise. A lot of noise in this business, like this whole CMS. I told people when a CMS thing came out, they were going to pass all these new regs and it was a disaster, it's going to happen. I said, no, it's going to be just fine, but you know what it's going to do? It's going to weed out the weak in this business. And it did. Get all the knuckleheads and the JJ Walker types and the, the Joe Navis type commercial guys and all the losers that need to get out of this business, mediocre loser type, get them out. Guess what? July 3rd, they announced its own stay. The, the, the, the, the, uh, the federal court in Texas put a stay on the whole thing. You know, they're going to put it on pause. It's not going to happen. I said it was not going to happen. So I, I think it's so critical for your team members to understand the key principles of building anything, any business in life, okay? It all starts with you. As I said in the beginning, if you're not right, nothing else gonna go right. You can't expect your FMO You can't expect the company to do— be perfect to you if you're not right. So I think that's important. You got to get you right. You got to keep God first in your business. I think that's always important. No one's perfect. I'm not here to be an evangelist, but I think you need to keep God first. You got to have something bigger than you to keep you on point, you know. I pray every morning and every night, John, you know, and I screw up and I mess up. I make mistakes. I got to ask for forgiveness. I got a little confession you know, talk to a priest, because, you know, we're human beings, you know, we weren't created perfect. There was only one perfect man, and it ain't me, and it ain't you. So I think— but you at least need to have God first in life. And then going back what I said about the right attitude and the right spirit, it's just amazing to me how negative the world has become. You need to be that shining light, that beacon of hope. My wife and I used to have a phrase: we wouldn't be a shining light in a dark market. You know, back in the early days. Be that beacon of hope and positivity, you know. And you got to have that work ethic, brother. I mean, I, I work— I mean, it's not really work to me, but I put in 70, 80 hours a week. Yeah, I work on the airplane, you know. I'm working on a boat, you know. I'm working wherever I gotta work. When I'm away, my, you know, my family has to take my phone away sometimes. Hey, we gonna focus on food right now and dinner as a family. So I would steal my phone and hide it for, for an hour or two so we can You know, because I'm just always about trying to get better and pay it forward. And then you got to master the leadership skill sets. I can't stress that enough. You have to master the skill sets. It's, you know, just getting a title of an FMO and IMO and MGS, whatever titles you guys have, the RVPs and all that, it's just a title. You know, I don't care about titles. You know, I care about that I've made a difference in somebody's life. You know, I, I want everybody on this call to listen now by this time next year, they're living the dream. They've doubled their income. If you're making $100, I want you making $200. If you're making $200, I want you making $400. You understand that? You know, you have the ability and talent, and God has blessed you with a gift and talent. You just need to maximize it, okay? You need to go after it. I, I, I, if you screwed up— I got some— you wouldn't believe— I got a 75-year-old man called me, John, and said, I need your help. And I'm like, what I want to do for a 75-year-old? And he told me this stuff he went through. This guy was a successful guy built businesses. You know what? One stroke of God's favor can make up for 20, 30, 40 years of mistakes. And it got him back fired up. I got 7-year-olds on my team building. I got 20-year-olds on my team building. But you know what? And that's what I tell people. There's always hope in this business. That's what I love about the insurance business. Within 30 to 90 days, you can work your way out of a rut. I love that, to take somebody out of a rut. I have a guy on my team, Joe Gray, started me with $38 in his bank account, didn't know if he was going to live or die. He found a way to get out to meet me in my office because he wanted to see if I was real or not. I spent the whole day with him, canceled my coaching because I had my coaches take care of it. That guy went back on fire. That coming AEP, finished in the top 10. That next following year, full year, he got a renewal check. And, and this— now get this— a 6-figure renewal check after 1 year doing Medicare. Was able to take his lifelong dream. He wanted to take his entire family— brothers, sisters, mom, his kids— to Disney World. About 50 people, he took them to Disney World and paid cash for it all. Isn't that powerful, dude?

I love it, bro.

I mean, that's, that's what we're about, helping people live that dream. So that's my final message, man. Don't, don't ever stop, uh, selling the dream and sell that Crusade. There's millions of people out there that would love to do what we're doing. They just need good leadership like you, John, and help them get to the promised land. Because we, like most Moses, brother. We like Moses. I don't want you wandering that wilderness for 40 years no more, okay? No more. You know, going around the same mountain for 40 years, murmuring, complaining— that stuff's done. Promised Land is over there, 10 days away. We going, we'll get there, and we'll get there and knock it out and chalk them up. All right, brother.

I love it, dude. Couldn't end any better. Appreciate your time. Thanks for getting on, dude.

God bless you, man. Thank you. Appreciate you and your team. God bless. Thank you. See you, bro.