How To Make $1 MILLION As An Insurance Agent (Exact Roadmap)

I'd rather you make $500 versus sit on your couch and complain, but I can give you a skill set to where you don't have to dial near that many times.

And we're live. I got here the $200 million man, John Wetmore. Um, super excited about today. Uh, John is somebody I look, uh, look to for advice all the time, uh, when I got a problem going on with my agency, uh, and I'm not really sure what to do, or if I made the right decision. Uh, John's one of my first calls, man, so super excited to have him here. Uh, really hope a lot of you guys take advantage of this and start putting some, some questions in the chat that you might have. Um, first of all, John's got a book, right? John's got a book, uh, was it Do More Get Better Later?

Close. You're pretty close.

Pretty close, right? What?

Pretty close.

What is it, John Wetmore? Come on, bro.

There you go. I know you got one.

Get Better Later. Get Better— Do More— Do More Now, Get Better Later. I missed one word. I missed one word. You did.

That's the most important word in the book title, bro, is now. The— here's the problem, bro. Most people want to do more later.

They're gonna like, I'll get it later after I finish this.

Correct.

After this, I'll do it on the commercial after— after the show's over. Monday's my day.

After the show's over.

But, uh, hey, I just shared your group live with someone.

I got a couple people texting me. I don't know how quick you approve people, but this dude's like, how do I get on your live? So I shared it with him.

Cool, let's, let's figure out how to get people in here real fast. Let's, let's help some people. All right, cool. You got some names? Because I got like, I got 1,100, uh, requests.

His name is Adam.

Adam, boom, Adam is now approved.

Let's go. I'm gonna tell him, just got you, uh, just got you in, bro.

Ahead of the line. I got Rick Holland, we're gonna approve him. Who else we got here? We got some people, we should approve some people ahead of time. So this is, this is cool. This is what we do, right? We just, we just make it happen, right? We're just, uh, we'll get better at this later.

That's it, bro. You're getting it now. Like, who gives a shit? Let's just go.

Yeah, we'll just get better at this stuff later. So, uh, awesome, man. Awesome. So if you guys know John, right? So let's start getting some questions in here. So, so John, uh, has a massive, massive agency, does $200 million in premium in a year, right? Just to put that into, um, so you can wrap your head around that, there's insurance carriers that don't do $200 million in a year. Not to pick any names or anything, but there's insurance carriers that don't do $200 million a year. Um, so, so excited, uh, to have you on here, man. You know, I'll get to ask you some questions myself and have some people, but man, first off, how have you been? How's everything? You got a book now. I see you mentoring, training. I see you on stages. I think you got a mastermind. I mean, you're helping agents at a huge scale right now, more than I've ever seen you before. You obviously been helping them, but I think it was always like your agency, right? And now you're basically like, you know what, dude, if you want to sell insurance, I'm here to help you. So tell me a little bit about that.

It was just kind of evolved, man. I didn't, um, I didn't plan it out. Like, I didn't have like a roadmap, like, yeah, one day I want to do ABC, you know what I mean? I just— I started out where I wanted to get out of a hole for sure. Um, then I realized I could actually get rich selling insurance, you know, relatively. You know, I don't think you get wealthy per se just selling, but you can get what the average person would say is relatively rich. You do well. Um, so I figured out how to do that, and then I started teaching it, dude. And I want to teach a lot of people how to, how to change their lifestyle for like their kid. Dude, I love kids. I'm— I'll be honest with you, when I help see sometimes the agents are like this or like— like, I'm just— I want the kids to win more than I care if you win. I want kids to grow up different, you know what I mean? Like, I, I like when, when us adults can win, but typically it's for our families, you know? And I'm getting to see what it did for my kids to be able to live differently and enjoy life in a different way than my older kids were able to, or I was as a kid, you know? Um, so I like to do it for that, man. And, and I got— I, I was able to see what joy the people who taught me things got out of watching us get to change, you know what I mean? And getting to do things different with my kids and, and, and kind of watch the journey through their eyes. I'm like, I want that. So I just started teaching it, bro, and, um, the agency blew up, which certainly we can get into detail, but the very long story condensed is we blew the hell up and, um you know, getting out there on stages and, and, and continuing to teach people literally just because I want to help people. I never had a paid nothing, um, for 12 years. And people DM me, I help them, stages, they call me, whatever. I was just helping people, dude. And it got to a point where I helped so many people figure this business out that I get— and I get an insane amount of requests from people daily. And, uh, I want to be able to help, but I'm one dude, you know. So I do a lot of free stuff, but we had to kind of make a paywall for people that are more serious, for me to give actual time to that don't work with me. I mean, I do, dude. I coach a lot of people at other companies and agencies, and, you know, a lot of people trying to win, bro. And I don't, I don't care where you work, you can win no matter where you are. Hell, you and I have been talking for years, and I didn't— I'm—

I know, I'm still waiting for the bill. I'm waiting for like, all right, David, come on, I think it's time you start, uh, you start paying me.

I thought about sending you one just to see if you'll pay it. I'm like, dude, I see how good this guy lives. He probably— I probably send it, he won't even notice it. He'll just hit pay.

That's what, uh, what did someone do that with like Facebook or Google or something like that? They're, they're sending them fake invoices for like millions of dollars and billing you, bro, 10 G's a day. I mean, dude, it's, uh, you know, people are so, um, I can't afford that now, I don't want to pay that now and stuff like that. But it's like the, the information that you have, right? So it's like, let's just say you do decide you want to charge me 10 G's, right? 10 G's for— dude, there's no way I can't get $10,000 worth of information from you. Yeah, right. There's no way, like, you know, if you're like, all right, because I'm gonna get real serious about my questions, right? I'm gonna get real deliberate about, you know, what I ask you and stuff. But there's no way that you can't give me $10,000. You've already have, like, you already have. You helped me in so many different ways. Yeah, yeah, with my agency.

So you know what I learned, bro? It's funny, man. Everyone wants to change. Everyone wants to change the the result of change. Everyone says they want to change. Everyone says they're willing to change. Everyone says they're coachable. Everyone says they're all in. If I go on a scale of 1 to 10, how willing are you to invest in yourself? Everyone says a 10, you know. But then when it comes time to pony up, dude, people are funny, bro, you know. And I heard this quote and it rings so true, and I I want to say Cody said it somewhere, not 100%. It wasn't me. I did not invent this, that's for sure. But they said you sell how you buy, meaning if you're struggling in sales and you're getting, I want to think about it, those are the same people that when they go to buy something, they're like, yeah, I gotta kind of think about it. I'm just not sure if I should invest there. I don't know if I should go to that event. I don't know if I should pay You know what I mean? It's like, it's so— it's, it's wild, dude, where my style, I'm like, yeah, just get it, all good, we'll figure it— just come on, we'll figure it out, I'll figure it out, you know what I mean? And, and that's not just because I've always been that way. I'll just figure it out, you know? And I, I spent a shit ton of money. I don't know how we got on this because this obviously wasn't the plan, but I spent a shit ton of money, as you do. I see the stuff you're in, you know, um, with, uh, shit with What's his name, dude in Texas?

Ryan Stewman.

Stewman, yeah. I mean, I see— I know what that costs. I've been in that. That ain't— he ain't cheap.

No, he's not cheap.

You know, I've sent him a big-ass wire before, you know. Um, but I've always been that way because I just— I know, I know people's time is worth it. And I know that it's funny, man. One thing I've learned is like, people that make money, bro, they're so willing to help people who do the right things. To achieve success. They just don't know the exact steps because most people who got money were once in a spot where they didn't, you know, and had a hand getting there, you know. But you do have to kind of filter people out sometimes, bro.

Yeah, well, the, the thing is, it's like, if they're— if when people are listening to me and they're coachable, dude, I'll talk to you all day long. Like, you mean, like, we could talk all the time? Like, I love it. Like, you know what I mean? Because I love seeing the growth, right? It's like, uh, it's like building, right? You like building something, right? You're an entrepreneur. You like building stuff and solving problems. So if you're on the phone with somebody all day or for an hour or 30 minutes and you're giving this person advice and then they call you back 2 weeks with the same exact question, like, well, what happened, uh, with the last piece of advice I gave you? Well, I didn't really start that yet. It's like, all right, like you're not building anything, you're on a treadmill, just running around in circles now, right? So, but if like, yeah, yeah, I did that and then this happened and this happened, like, all right, cool, we're making somewhere, like, all right, well, try this now, do this now, right? So when, when— yeah, I love it. Like, and people don't realize that too, right? So like yourself, right, you're, you're a millionaire and you're willing to help anyone that's willing to like do something with the help, right? And like there's so many people that won't plug into that and like understand, like understand that. It's crazy, right? Like, I mean, I'm sure you get DMs of all kinds of crazy, crazy stuff and you're like, and you've replied to these people, then they're like, like, bro, are you kidding me? I just like literally gave you some of my time and you're That's your reply? That's, that's your conversation? Okay, good, good luck in life, bro. Good luck in life. Like, you know, with that attitude.

So, you know what's funny though, dude, is every once in a while, bro, I do it all the time, reply to people. I just literally, I don't even know who this— most people that DM me, I don't know who they are, to be honest. I mean, I just, I freaking don't. Uh, but someone, I think it was just Facebook, literally a few minutes ago, right before we got on here, someone sent me a DM with a question. And then like, I go out of my way I don't know, necessarily show the dude's name because I don't know, actually I don't care. But like, I go out of my way and like, I voice memoted this dude back. Yeah, I don't even know him. Yeah, you know what I mean? I'm like, but dude, every once in a while, bro, every once in a while one will click and they'll do something big and I'll see him at an event and they'll be like, yo, ABC, you said ABC, I put it in, I killed it after that, you know? And I just, I keep doing it for that, bro.

Yeah, no, it's because I was on the other side of it once. Yeah, it's worth it. It's funny though, right? Because like you said, you'll take, you'll do like a 3-minute voice memo like, and get like real deep into something, and then they don't reply.

To be fair, this dude's watching, he did reply.

Yeah, I saw it, I saw it.

But you're right, dude, it's very often they don't.

Yeah, it's just like, really? Okay, okay. Like, you know, let me find somebody else that, you know, is willing to talk to you, you know. Um, super, super funny, man. Um, yeah, I think you were talking about the, you know, people sell like they buy. They buy. Um, so one of my, uh, agents, I remember, uh, she, she believes that every time someone calls up, she just buys it. Um, but you know, she's also one of, one of my top agents, right? So it's, it's so funny, like, it does, because I used to be real, um, I used to be real tough with that too. Same with like negotiation. I, my last tenant, um, in, in a house I wasn't really comfortable with him. I didn't really know him, right? But like, I wasn't comfortable because he's a little younger. He made his money with e-com. Um, he had a big dog. There was just a couple like variables. I was like, I wasn't sure I wanted to put this person in my house. So I was a little tough with him, um, right to my house. And man, this apartment I'm in now, they were so freaking tough with me. And, uh, I was like, it's just— I was like, it was my fault. It's all my fault. It's all my fault. They had like this amend— like this extra like page that was part of the lease that was like if I leave the house for— leave the apartment for 2 weeks, I need to notify them. Like, just like crazy stuff like that wasn't a standard lease. But I'm like, it's my fault, it's my fault. I should have given the kid a hard time. I should have just let him rent my house. And he ended up being a great tenant. He ended up being a great tenant. Uh, he came, stayed for a year, left, gave him his full deposit back. Um, but, but yeah, so, so like, you learn that, right? He's just like, give what you want, give what you want, give what you want.

That's true.

So, uh, one thing I love about you, um what I see, right? There's a lot of people that speak and talk like amazing things, and you obviously got the track record, uh, but you teach some really good stuff. There's a lot of ways you teach that I really, really relate to, um, and I would love to, um, I know we didn't, you know, plan anything particular, but, but I'd love for you to teach something.

Good news is I do this for a living, so if I can't teach it off the cuff, bro, that's it, right?

Right. You're the, the real deal. But, um, We got— so we got, uh, we got what you got, 20, 24 viewers so far. We usually have a pretty—

someone ask a damn question. Can they do that? I can't see it live over here, but I'm on— I'm trying to figure out how to get— that's why I keep looking at my phone. I'm trying to figure out how to see comments on the action.

Yeah, it's like, uh, it's hard to see them. So, all right guys, so we got John Wetmore, the $2 million, $200 million man. Um, you, you made your first— was it— well, you did mortgage protection, was the majority of what you sold when you first Um, I was doing both mortgage protection and final expense.

I had a good split. I did actually, when I was brand, brand new, dude, I was way more heavy final expense when I was brand new. Okay, okay. But it didn't take long to get in the mortgage stuff. My first year I was doing both, and our agency's pretty split down the middle. Got it.

And, and you sold for— you sold for a while because you told me you were making like $2 million a year still selling or something like that.

I think when I was— the year I got out of the field, that's what I made.

Yeah.

So I got out of the field that year and made, made like $1.8. Um, I sold from 2012 Uh, I did 2012 to 2013, like mid-2012 to mid-2013, part-time. Is that a job? And then from mid-2013 till the first quarter of 2015, I sold what most people would call full-time. So, yeah, dude, I'm— I was mediocre at best. Now, to be clear, I was out selling most normal agents, but in a real environment, you I mean, like, I issued $175 grand my first year, which is respectable, but dude, I was putting in no work. Um, and then from '15, all of '15, all of '16, and through the first quarter of '17, I was— I averaged $40K a month plus on my own pen. Um, you know, sell, issue half a million bucks a year, and then started building the team and stuff like that. And by, by '17, the year I got out of the field— and I sold for a couple months of 2017, um, I got out of the field that year and and made just under 2 that year.

It's funny, I, um, so I recently started my own IMO and, uh, been really selective on the hiring, right? Because I want to build a really strong foundation before I really turn it up. And, you know, I talked to my leaders about it and stuff, and like, you know, I said, listen, they got to be able to commit, this and that, and, and, you know, they won't invest in leads, like, you know, all the stuff that, you know, they had to do to be successful, right? Because we don't, we don't need any time wasters right now. Now's, now's the, you know, now's the beginning. Um, and one of my managers came to me and she's like, well, this person's part-time. I said, well, hold on a second, let's— because they took that as like no part-timers. And I just want to— because you're— you started as a part-timer, right? So I just wanted to— I said, well, listen, you got to like— okay, cool, they're a part-timer. Like, what are they going to do after? Like, you got to start digging into that. Like, because part-timers are great. Part-timers are great if they're— because a lot of great people started as part-timers. But, but, you know, okay, cool, tell me about your job. Okay, you're gonna get home at 5 o'clock, are you gonna hit the phones?

Correct.

Right. Well, maybe just on the weekend, you know. And you just gotta dig into those things and, and try to figure out, um, yeah, it's just about like asking, setting the expectations in the beginning. But I just want to point out that yes, John Wetmore started as a part-timer, um, and he's absolutely crushing it in insurance. We got some questions.

And dude, I quit too. Like, I quit at the beginning, you know what I mean? Like I just— and that's the same, have a little bit of grace for people. But I— you said expectations is the best word you said in all that. Like, you have to set crazy expectations because I don't care if you're full-time, part-time, whatever. Um, I just expect that you are coachable and you, and you do what you say you're gonna do.

That's it. So what you say we're gonna do, that's it.

Now, if what you say you're gonna do is very minimal effort, right? If you're like, I can only run 3 appointments a week on Saturday morning, what— I don't care. 'But I am going to warn you, this business will suck forever.' Yeah, it just will. It'll be so inconsistent, you know what I mean? And, and unfortunately, the biggest, um, problem in the industry is 99% of people who say they're full-time— if we timed their activity, when they make phone calls and when they make presentations and when they prospect and all that stuff, if I timed it, 99% of y'all would not add up to 40 hours. And what's crazy is no one's confused by that.

Let's dig into that. Let's, let's dig into that because, because you, you, you really break down time. Um, you do a really, really good job with— I see with the easel, the whiteboard and everything, and you dig into like, you know, what, what, what is a full-time— what can an agent accomplish in a day, um, if they, they truly are full-time and really giving?

Think about this. If I ask any— and I've done this thousands of times. If you're in sales and you're trying to figure out how to get effing paid and stop getting so many objections, register now for my 2-day workshop here in Atlanta, Georgia, February 27th, 28th. We're gonna have some special guest speakers. There is an exclusive mastermind for VIP ticket holders. For those that just want to attend the event, you can. There's a very low entry to get into it. We'll be going over everything you need for sales, objections, scripts. Role playing, um, everything you need to build a business, scale a business, staffing, automations, everything I've learned in the last decade plus, um, building what I've built. Of course, we've had a lot of help, so we'll be going over how to scale it, how to structure it, everything you need to get to the next level. Click on the link, register below, we'll see you there. And I've never had someone ever dispute it, not literally, not one time ever. But if I just ask the average person, prospecting for most people is making phone calls for the most part. Certainly some people door knock or do whatever, but for the most part it's picking up the phone and calling someone. If I say, how long does one of those take? One phone call, given the majority don't even pick up, as everyone— and now I understand some people sit around and take inbound calls, which I ain't mad at either, but while you're sitting waiting, does that count as work? I mean You judge you. I don't— I don't— I'm not the judge. But my question is, if you're just sitting there waiting, do you count that as work? If you do, to make yourself feel good, amen, I'll give you a high five. But the reality is, under— you— no one's confused, you know what I mean? So it's like, again, we'll go outbound because we go different ways with it. But if we go outbound prospecting, one phone call, how long does it take? Rings, goes to voicemail.

Yeah, I mean, that's less than a minute, 30 seconds a minute. Let's make it a round number, right?

So that means we can do how many of those in an hour?

60.

Okay, so if we do an 8-hour day, which the average Joe does— that's not spectacular, we're trying to get rich, we should do it, be above average in my opinion— but the average Joe, 8 hours a day at 60 an hour is 480 phone calls. Just a one 8-hour day. That's assuming no one picks up. I got it. If someone picks up, maybe it's 5 minutes on the phone, whatever. If you're making one-call closes and presentations, I got— there's a different time frame there, you know. So it's like, all right, look at how many phone calls you make a week, whoever's watching, and do it by 1 minute each. The average agent's making like a couple hundred phone calls max a week, you know what I mean? It's like, all right, so— and this was me too. So I'm like, all right, if I— when I was real with myself in 2015, I'm like, all right, 61, 22, I'm 4 hours a week on the phone if it were timed. And now be clear, I've worked in corporate jobs where I was timed. I worked in a warehouse and everything I did was timed, and I worked in a call center and everything I did was timed, right? So if I treat it— treated this the same way, my number said I was spending 4 hours a week timed making outbound calls. Okay, and then I go, let's go, what else, what else do we do? We make presentations. Okay, how long does one of those suckers make if you make a full presentation?

Hour.

Okay, now everybody out there, go, how many presentations have you made in the last week? Every time I do this, if we could do it live, like legit live— I know there's comments, but it's not quite the same. I had 200 people on a call yesterday and we did it, and everyone's 4, 6, 8, 7, 9, 6, 4, 3, 7. Every once in a blue moon, someone will be like, 15. There'll be a random one-off dude that's like, 20. You know what I mean? So again, we go 1 hour a pop. I was making at the time 8. If you read the book, like in the book, I go through my numbers in this thing. I was making a couple hundred phone calls a week max, and I was doing like 8 presentations a week. So 8 hours doing that, presenting, 4 hours prospecting in our example. The only other thing that makes you any money in this business is recruiting, and I can do an interview in 20 minutes. Yeah, you know what I mean? And most people aren't doing any, so it's almost an irrelevant number, you know what I mean? So it's like, if you're, if you're making a couple hundred phone calls a week and you're making a handful or a couple handfuls of presentations a week, you're, you're well under 20 hours a week timed, you know what I mean? And I just go like Why do we call it full-time? And most people say it's full-time because this is all they do. It's not because it's 40 hours, you know what I mean? And I just— that's, that's all I really changed at its core, you know what I mean? I was like, what if I just did 40 hours of phone calls and presenting? Like, what would that look like? And dude, I issued $500 grand in my own pen. Just one change. You know, most people aren't willing to do that piece. So it's like, when I recruit agents, I dictate if they're full-time or part-time. They don't. I, I get to define what full-time is, and in my world, full-time is 30 appointments a week. If you don't run 30 a week, you're part-time, which I'm not mad at. But if, if you're part-time, it's going to be inconsistent, and you— I just got one rule. You can never complain to me.

Can't complain about money, right?

You do whatever you want, you just can't complain about money because I'm telling you up front it's going to be inconsistent and it's going to suck literally forever for the overwhelming majority of people. Now, every once in a while you get an outlier who can run 8 appointments, 10 appointments, 12 appointments a week and kill it. High five, stay out of their way. But I ain't training on that shit. Because it ain't normal, you know what I mean? So I don't know, dude, it's a really simple concept and anyone can apply it. And, and again, when I break people's numbers down, most people know they're not putting in the activity. Most people know they're not studying their craft enough. Most people not know they're very emotional with the business when they get told no or things don't go their way, you know what I mean? Like, most of us know that, but then it's like, what are we doing about it? You know, and that's, that's, um, that's kind of at its core. I'm looking at some of these questions. You did say there's questions.

Yeah, I was gonna start throwing some at you, man. But, you know, I like that you talk about that because the one thing I always talk about, um, you know, because I'll ask an agent, right? So, so typically all my agents are telesales agents, right? We, we sell on the phone. A couple field agents here and there, but 99% of my agency has been telesales for a while.

Yeah.

Um, and again, same, same things, right? We still have our same— you know what's crazy though, because you're talking about— and, and I want to point this out because I know there's a lot of telesales agents listening— 30 presentations.

I'm talking my world, that's in-home, dude.

That's what I'm saying, 30 presentations a week in-home. It should be way easier to get 30 presentations in your own sales. Yeah, so because I tell people to get 15 to 25, and I'm like, dude, I'm, I'm doing a disservice.

My, um, my— what do you call it? Like when you— what do you call it? Like when you like exchange money, like there's an exchange rate, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, a dollar in the US equals something else in another country. Well, in-home to telesales, it's a half. Yeah, does it make sense? Because you're gonna have to make more phone calls, you need more leads, and you're going to get no-showed more. It is what it is. Yeah, so we—

your closing ratio is going to be— going to be less.

Yeah, it's going to be less for sure.

Close more people, more referrals, and yeah, I'll give I'll give you an example.

When I was, when I was newer, um, and you'll sell final expense, so you can probably relate to it, but maybe didn't sell mortgage, so I don't know if it's— but if I, if, if, if you gave me 10 mortgage, say mortgage protection appointments, or 10 final expense appointments, my mortgage protection is going to net me more every single time. It just, it's going to turn— there's going to be less stuff, less no-shows, less debit cards, green dot card, whatever they're called today. Oh, we're just gonna deal with less stuff. It's gonna be higher average premium, right? So one of the things that I did, and I talk about it in the book also, when I ran a final expense appointment, I only counted it as half an appointment. So when I said 30, it might be 20 mortgage protection appointments, but then it's probably 20 final expense appointments that I counted as 10 because I knew half weren't going to be there anyway, or it was going to be in and out. You mean I'm in a trailer home, they got fleas everywhere, there's dog crap everywhere, you know what I mean? I'm in and out of that house, there's nothing I can do. So with my guys that run in-home and telesales, we do the same thing. I'm like, don't get tripped up by the telesales because there's pros and cons to everything, right? The pro is it's a lot easier to sit at home and do it, and you get the whole country to work. Yeah, you know what I mean?

The cons are you never have a lead problem, correct? It's—

there's more— it requires more reps. It just is what it is. So we count, we count telesales for the people that follow me directly as half an appointment. And it's just a mind trick, dude. So if you, if you're running again, if you're running 4 a day, unless you're a killer, there's— you're making no money almost ever. It's just hard. So for me, I go, all right, well, 4 a day, it's really only 2. And everyone knows on 2 you're not going to do anything. So it's just, it's just a mind trick that I would do to myself and others. Um, our, our top telesales guys are, are doing 15 a day, 15 appointments a day. 15.

Wow.

Yeah, 15 a day every 30 minutes. Yeah, for sure. So it's not going to be there, so it's 7 or 8 a day technically. You mean you're gonna—

yeah, well, they're setting up appointments. That's the difference. They're setting appointments, we're not setting appointments. So, so it closes. Yeah, that's the same concept.

They're attempting to get, you know, upwards of 8 presentations a day to be— have success.

Yeah, we're getting 3 to 5 presentations. 3 to 5 presentations is, is where we, we are.

But, uh And again, I'm talking guys trying to do $500,000, $600,000, $700,000. I'm not talking a guy who wants to crack $100,000, you know what I mean? So it's like, who are we speaking to also?

Yeah, I— but the, the thing I always talk about, so like, you know, an agent might ask me, hey Dave, I can't get anyone to pick up the phone. Okay, no problem. How many times you dial the phone yesterday? Yeah, right, that's my first question, right? Because, you know, so typically if somebody's, um, selling on the phone And, you know, they're— so they're dialing or they're taking inbound calls. They're dialing, right? They're dialing and they're selling on the phone. So you're dialing, you have a lot of time that's spent with the dialing, then the presentation's an hour, right? So typically somebody about $200 is the number I'm going to shoot them for, right?

They're making 5 presentations, 5 hours there, it's 3 or 4 hours on the phone. I mean, it's a good day. When I say a big number, it's like assuming you aren't making presentations. It's like worst case scenario.

Yeah, because it's different, right? So like, so now I'm looking at that and I'm like, okay, so how many times— so $200 'Joe, how many times did you dial the phone yesterday?' And they're like, '20.' I was like, 'Okay, 20. So, so the reason no one answered the phone is it's going to take you 10 days— it's going to take you 10 days to get a day's worth of work.' How about when they say they got beat up today? Yeah, yeah, they got beat up today.

Yeah, I got killed on the phones today.

On the phone, crush everyone. How many times?

Nobody told me no today.

Everyone—

how many? A lot of people, man. A lot of people hung up on me today. How many? 4. When did 4 become a lot? You know what I mean? It's true, dude.

That's tough. All right, let's see. We got some questions in here for you. So Helping Kiddo, uh, John is a Killer. I got Adam Hale in here. Hey Adam, man, when we gonna have you on here? Um, John Wetmore, what been— what's been your favorite part of this industry? From David Denning. My favorite part, favorite part, it's all the free food.

Such a good question, man. Like, so many ways I could go with it. I mean, my favorite part's been the money, to be clear, right? That part's like got to be the favorite, right? How would it not be? That's what we're all in it for. Um, I've loved the trips. I've loved the people I've met and the relationships I've built in the industry. I mean, I have buddies from all over the country at this point that we like do life together, that I've met through, through the struggles of this business.

Right.

I mean, you do this long enough, you, you learn, you come up with people. Yeah. Does it make sense? It's like, there's some people been in this business better than me by far, but they quit when it gets hard. There's people who've been in the business longer than me, but they don't keep pushing the new limits. So there's, there's some, some of us that kind of rose through this business, and I still don't think I'm anywhere near the top because there's people killing it. I'm a rounding error to some people, to be clear, you know, but the come up with people, man. And to be clear, the company I'm— I'm gonna do— we started from scratch. Kind of building something from scratch was fun.

I was like, that's—

I don't know how to replicate that, you know what I mean? Like, young, broke, hungry, just— we don't even know what we're doing. There's no business, there's no company, there's no system, there's no trainings. And building that from the ground up, there's times I can't get back, dude. You know, um, so I, I love— I miss that part. It's again, it can't happen again, you know what I mean? Just going from nothing to where we're at, it's like, ah, the first handful of years, dude, unreplicable, you know, just people I did it with.

So yeah, I think that, that makes sense because like I said, I, I, you know, basically starting from the beginning, I'm, you know, obviously not starting broke, so that's a help. And then having the, the knowledge, um, but definitely enjoy the controlling every part of the aspect now and and stuff like that. And I talked to another group that, um, started over. I was like, let me ask you a question. I was like, was the most fun you had in this industry that first year starting over? And they said, you know, we're just talking about that, like how much fun that, that, that, that was. Um, because you do, you get to this point where you just get comfortable and then you stop pushing your limits and you stop doing these things. And then you start realizing, well, the money's cool, but that wasn't the actual fun part. The fun part was like the building process of it.

And be clear, it's a lot more fun when you're looking back on it when you've got somewhere. Yeah, like going through it was hard, dude. And we didn't know what you had your hands on at the time, you know what I mean?

But it was funny, I was sitting there, uh, I was sitting there yesterday, I'm like, you know, I, I got a pretty full calendar these days, you know, I got a lot going on. Um, and I'm like, dude, why do I feel like a little tired? Like a little, like, you know, like, like over overloaded. I'm like, oh wait, in the last 45 days I started a new IMO, I started a software company, I started a lead company. I got a house I'm putting into an Airbnb right now. I just bought a piece of land yesterday to build a house. Um, you shouldn't be tired. Yeah, and I'm trying to get some— and I'm trying to keep my abs right. So like, you know, between doing all those things, like, yeah. So, but, uh, you know, Edward Pritchett, he uses the good word. He never— he says, you know, I'm productive. That's what he says, you know. I'm like, man, you're busy as heck. He said, I'm productive. I'm productive.

That's it, bro. That's why I stay— I like staying busy, dude. I like accomplishments.

You get bored if you're not, right? Like when you go on vacation, you get really bored. Yeah. So I got a question, Deanna. So what are the key factors that help you get to $2 million? What was your lead spend and how many recruits a month?

Yeah, so the— I assume she means the year I made $2 million. Um, that year I sold basically zero because I got— I mean, I think I issued like $30 grand that year. I was literally out of the field. I knew at the end of 2016 I was getting out. And I got out because I was so busy between appointments, taking calls from agents in appointments, I couldn't keep up. And I was literally losing money selling. Yeah, some people try to get out far too early, but I was— dude, I was making fucking $100 grand, $80 grand, $100 grand a month when I decided to get out. And it just— then once I got out, it just kept going up. Um, so what led to it was my structure more than anything, um, meaning I had 40 or 50 agents that were direct to me. I didn't hire a guy like David and him go hire 40 people. Does that make sense? So my structure was really good, so I had, I had decent spread on a lot of people, um, and then I was teaching people how to make money. I wasn't just hiring people to hire people. I was hiring people and working with them if they, if they showed they wanted to make changes to their family, and I would invest everything I had in terms of time, energy, knowledge coaching into them. And dude, I was on the phone this time. I, dude, I was up 5 AM every day for sure, and I was on the phone till 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night at least every night for years. Um, so I was pouring into everything I had into people. And so 40, 50 agents, we were doing like $500 grand a month, you know. I got 20, 30, 40 points spread. I sold enough to get my contract up as high as I could go. You know what I mean? And then you start adding people. So I'm, you know, every, every, every $100 grand is $20 G's. So I was— I, I had direct. So my biggest group at the time probably had 3 or 4 agents, 5 agents max. I mean, like, there wasn't— so it was heavy, heavy direct. Um, my lead spend, um, in 20— trying to think what year it was. Was it— it was 2017, same year, 2017, just for transparency. I spent $450 grand on leads and I sold basically zero. And I was— it's because I was investing in agents, dude, and I was trying to figure it out and I messed up a lot of things. I was giving leads to people and then not holding them accountable to working. And you know what I mean? Like, I learned a lot that year. And for transparency, the next year I grossed about the same amount of money, but my lead spend was like $50 grand the next year because I learned to create independent contractors, people that are self-sufficient, teach them how to invest. I took away a welfare program, you know, and I really started trying to find and work with people who want to be independent like me. So the next year, made similar money because I started teaching people to make money. Spreads somewhat got a little bit lower, but I started developing a lot of people into, into issuing $300,000, $400,000, $500,000, $600,000. And then I was able to cut expenses and get more efficient and things like that. So my net The next year. Um, and that was really it. So it's mostly structure and, you know, willingness to invent. I learned really like how to build cash flow that year, and the more I spent, the more my cash flow went up. And eventually, if I create systems and process, I can remove expenses and keep the cash flow. You know, it is hard to build new cash flow without investment. So if you want to keep growing, you typically have to keep investing. Um, and early on, man, I invested most of it back. I didn't, I didn't change my lifestyle early. Yeah, I was— I did not change my lifestyle when I could have. You know, I was making that kind of money and I was still paying myself like $1,500 a week as a paycheck. Yeah, all the rest stayed in the business.

Yeah, I think that's, um, this one thing I remember, you know, I was probably making, I'm making like $40 grand a month you know, with the overrides. Um, before I'm like, okay, time to move out of this apartment, you know what I mean? Time to move out of this apartment. You know, I just had like a little 2-bedroom apartment I was renting. Um, but that's, you know, the reinvestment was, was a big deal. But I know exactly what you're talking about with the field, because I always, always wondered like, okay, when am I gonna stop selling? And I got, I got 30 leads one week, and I spent the whole week driving circles in neighborhoods talking to agents on the phone.

Yeah.

And I didn't get in one house all week. And then I was like, man, I need 30 more leads. I'm going to have to get twice as much done this next week. And I got 30 more leads. And again, I didn't get in one house that week. I was on the phone with agents. I was like, okay, I'm done selling today. Yeah. I didn't plan it, but yeah, that's what happened. And it took a year for me to get my license for that to happen. But I also wasn't making $2 million at that point. And then How many— talking about recruiting here. I'm just looking at the other questions. Uh, so Dana, so Dana, Dana's a huge fan of you. Um, she's cool. So she said, she said, uh, would you have done anything differently your first year? What a good question, right?

Holy moly. Now it's not her first year, so this question must be for someone else. She's really smart, so she's setting up a new agent here, which I love. Um, man, I would say probably the biggest mistake that I made revolved around fear, um, and I kind of limped in early. So when I was my first year, I was part-time. I can tell you the things I changed the first year part-time and the things I changed first year full-time. But the first year part-time, I would make phone calls on Sundays and I'd run 2 or 3 appointments Monday and Tuesday nights. And then I would dial a little bit on Thursday and Friday, and I'd run a handful of appointments on a Saturday. And it sounds cool because I was working around my work schedule, you know what I mean? Like, it is what it is. I had a full-time job, I had to commute, all the kids, whatever. The hard part, and where most people struggle, is, um, when you only try to run a couple appointments on an evening, more often than not you don't even make a presentation, much less make a sale. You know, um, I was okay mentally handling that because I was in it for the long run, but most people melt there. They make 1 or 2 or 3 presentations after work, they don't make any money, and then they're like, well, hell, I could just sit at home and Netflix, watch Netflix and have the same result. And they kind of give up on themselves. Um, so I was part-time for a year. If I could go back in time, and what I coach people to do now is even if you're part-time in the, in the instances and the times on your calendar that you can work, if you can do your best in those moments to make it feel like full-time, it's so much easier to have success here. Meaning, I wish I went back in time and I, instead of like doing a little bit Monday and Tuesday night and a little bit Saturday, I wish I just said forget it during the week and took care of business, and I ran my mother-effing face off all day and night Saturday and Sunday. Because I would have known within a few weeks, a month, I could have— I could have made the same money that it took me a year because I drug it out, you know. Um, I did it. I did a podcast with, um, oh Lord, uh, SLS, um, dude, you know him, Justin.

Good old Justin.

No, no, no, dude, no. Oh, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

I feel so bad right now. I, I do. I'm the worst with names sometimes.

I think you remember my name, that's all that matters.

One of the things that he said is, um, like a lot of people— like my first year, I thought I was in the business for a year, right? But I only did enough activity that someone that was full-time could have done in like 2 months. So the mistake a lot of people make is they go, I've been in the business 4 years. Well, you've really only been in the business for a year. You You just drug it out 4 years. You've really only been in the business 2 months. You just drug it out a year. You took a year to do 2 months worth of stuff. Does that make sense?

Um, yeah, that's what I tell people. I tell people, listen, my goal was to get 2 years worth of work done in my first year.

Correct. And I wish I did that better. I'm like gonna pull up this dude's name because I feel like shit when I forget people's names. I feel like such an ass. Um, You'll definitely know him. Oh, Hank Stewart. Hank Stewart, you should know the guy. He's a beast, dude. Um, if y'all haven't seen those podcasts, I will release very recently. Anyway, so it's like, I wish I, I wish I did that better, Dana. I wish I, um, I wish I, I wish I had more chunks where I made it feel like full-time. And I, I limped in with my lead spend also because like I was afraid, like, of the kind of the risk of it. And what I learned is there's actually more risk to less lead spend because you have less shots to make profit, right? So if I limp in with a couple hundred bucks, let's say I limp in with $500 and the average sale is $500 and it gets— I don't know how many leads it gets y'all, but whatever, to call it 10 leads, whatever, 20, whatever the number is. Right? In order to break even, I gotta sell, call it, 1 out of 20 people. In order to make $1,000, I gotta sell 3 out of 20 if I'm making $500 a pop, right? Make $1,500, I spent $500, I net $1,000. So I gotta sell 3 out of 20 to be profitable. But if I drop $1,000 and now I get 100 leads, right, I only got to make 2 sales to cover the lead bill, and only gonna make 2 sales to make that same $1,000. Now I gotta make 4 out of 100. Instead of 3 out of 20. You know, I mean, my odds go up significantly if I invest more. And so, so many people get timid, so they invest less. But I'm like, your odds are so bad at not only making back your net but having a profitability to pay your bills and buy more leads, you know what I mean? Like, the, the percentage. And so I kind of messed that up a little bit too. Um, I would say what I did really good that most people suck at at the beginning is putting their insurance money into a separate account. Most every agent I know deposits their insurance money into the same account they pay their bills out of, and it just gets messy, you know what I mean? And then they pay their bill. It's like, it's like a client who is struggling paying their insurance bill, right? They pay all the other bills, and at the end they're like, well, shit, there's no money left for insurance. And then y'all get frustrated when they charge back. An agent does the same thing when they put their money in their bill account, is they pay all their bills and they're like, oh, no money left for leads. Whereas I did it in the inverse, where the money, the deposits, went into a quote-unquote business account, which was just a free checking account at my bank. Then I bought leads first, and if there was anything left, I paid myself, and I transferred money to my bill account every week, and then I paid my bills. So that kept me, that kept me consistent because I knew if I didn't buy leads— leads equals money— so if I don't buy or generate leads somehow, I know the money's going to fall off, you know. So I think I did that part really well, and probably those are the other things I would have changed. And I see people now where we throw them, I'm like, go, go run 20 appointments this weekend and see what it feels like, and they'll trip over a couple sales, you know.

So it's funny you said— you could tell you've been mentoring a lot of agents, right? So you said, uh, you know, my business account, right? But you like had to add, uh, you know, which is just a free checking account.

Correct, dude.

I can't get started until I get up.

I gotta get an LLC open.

No, we can't get started. I was gonna start today, but I just found out John Wetmore said I need a business.

I definitely word stuff intentionally, bro. I've been around the block.

It's so funny. Um, you know, you said something really good. So I used to, uh, you know, I was a field agent. So I was a door knocker field agent with, with, uh, you know, usually with direct mail leads and I would sometimes I'd be like, all right, cool. I'm just going to go out for a half a day Saturday. And every time I did that, it was a complete— like it drove an hour and a half, 2 hours. Like it was 100— like I just should have stayed home. Right. And like what you're saying is like, just be intentional. Like if you are going to work, don't say, oh, I'm just going to work a little bit. I'm just going to see how it is. I'm just going to make a few phone calls. Like, do you just like— no, like, that's it. I'm committed. I'm working. Like, I'm going to get as much as I can get done. From this time period until I can't work no more. Um, so I think that's super, super cool that you talked about that in like the reverse, right? Where, you know, people just, um, yeah, like that's it. Like it's so many people like, um, like if you're building a business, like what else are you going to do with your time? Like tell me what else is more important to spend your time with.

You know what annoys me, dude, just on this subject that I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you'll probably relate to this. The question people ask me about balance—

oh my goodness, you're an entrepreneur, just start a business.

Yeah, you know what I thought of the other day, and I've been sharing this, I always try to answer it like— and I have a good answer for it in a sense, but one thing that I've really learned, because a lot of people I want to know that, like, yeah, I want to know that, tell us, give us a good answer. The only people who ever asked me about balance, dude, are broke as shit. Yeah, it just hit me like a couple weeks ago. I'm like, dude, no one rich has ever asked me about balance.

No, no, they all understand. Like, every— everyone I— yeah, everyone, you know, that's super successful, like, there's no— yeah, there's no—

what you and I understand differently than most is like, you know, and everybody has their thing. You mean like Dana, single mom? Like, she's got a lot going on, dude. It's like, you gotta take care of your kid. So I always have like— I'm weird, I'm an exception. Like, I have an exception for single moms. Like, Some of this shit don't apply, you know what I mean? Like, it's what do you do, you know? So sometimes you got to work around stuff. But like, and I know y'all have others because I see you, you got some, you got some killers in your group. But it's like, um, the balance thing that you and I understand and that others don't is most people ask the question, they want balance today on Thursday, November 21st, and then they want balance again tomorrow on Friday. And then they want balance again on Saturday. They want balance every day.

Yeah.

Where you and I understand the balance is a different game. It's a long-term game. So I have balance today that's ungodly relative to what most people can have, because in 2015 my scale was like this with unbound, quote unquote, unbalanced. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I have the— I just, I was okay with it not being today.

Yeah.

And most people, the problem is you want balance right now. You want it every day, all the time.

And I'm like, ah, just like a savings account you built up. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want any balance right now. Let me hold it all into this big vault. So when I really want to do something, when I want to go disappear and like go backpack Europe for a whole month, I can do that. You're like, how do you get to do that? Well, you remember in 2016 when I didn't have time to hang out with you? That's why. When I didn't have time to go to dinner with you, that's why. So awesome. Cool. So what up, Donna? What's the best advice you can give someone just start, uh, just starting out and broke?

So like I was, go make a lot of mistakes. Like, go make a— go mess up a lot. Get a lot of objections. Get a lot of people to tell you no. Get hung up on a lot. Miss sales a lot. Miss a lot of sales. Um, just mess up a lot. And then the key to that is bring it to someone, only to someone that's making money. Don't bring it to your buddy who's broke too. Don't bring it to your mom or your cousin or your sister or your uncle who doesn't know anything about what we do. Don't complain negatively to anyone in your circle whatsoever. Go get a lot of mistakes, and as you make those mistakes, bring them to people in a way that you're seeking guidance on what you did to cause that mistake. And you can learn this business so fast if you just go like, hey, what did I do wrong here? Hey, what do I do? Hey, what do you advise here? Hey, what did I mess up here? I missed the sale. What'd I do? Versus like, they were broke, they couldn't get it, it was the lead, the lead, bad leads, bad batch. You mean like all that stuff? Yeah. And most new people just aren't willing to make mistakes, um, you know. And at the beginning you have to. Like, Maddox is 13. Right? He plays baseball, and when he plays his— I love his coaches because they don't care about— and you never hear like coaches go like, let's just go have fun, it doesn't matter if you win, right? Well, it does matter if you win in a sense, but what, what he loves even more is the effort and the attitude during the process, because if you do those things right consistently, he knows the boys will win games. You know what I mean? So we're always out there making mistakes. He wants them to take 100 ground balls so they miss a lot of them. Why? So they learn how to adjust their feet and their glove and how to take the ground ball right. He wants them to swing and miss at the plate. He hates when people— when kids strike out looking. Because why do most kids strike out looking? They're trying to get a walk. And if you don't understand baseball, I apologize, some people don't. But right, they're looking for the ball that way they get to first base for free. Yeah, and most agents here are looking for easy and lay-down sales, right? Where we're like, no, I'd rather you go down. I'd rather you strike out swinging at a bad pitch than look for ball 4.

Why?

Because I want the attempt at a hit. I want, I want, I want them— because then we can adapt and adjust it, you know. Sometimes the kids don't swing and then they're subject to the umpire's discretion on whether or not it was a good pitch. And they make a quote-unquote bad call, Maddox gets mad. It was a ball. Yeah, but dude, you let it go. You left it up to the umpire. Yeah, for your result.

That's great, you know what I mean?

And I had a guy today who's mad about incoming transfers. He didn't get enough. I'm like, you left it up to the guy who runs the transfer company for your income? You sat around all day waiting for someone else to send you business instead of picking up the phone and calling people? Yeah, like, why are you leaving your outcome in the hands of other people, you know? Um, so again, my advice is go mess the ever-living F out of it, because how to do this business the right way, teaching insurance and what to say and what the product is, is 14,000 times easier than teaching work ethic and consistency. And desire to win and grit. I don't, I don't know how to teach those things, but the business— I mean, this business is so easy, you know, but it takes time. It's new, it's like a new language, you know what I mean?

It's like shortcut the experience, like you gotta— like you can't shortcut experience, like learning a language. Like I can't be like, all right, cool, I know how to do a language. Like you just, you can't shortcut it, um, and then the more you work on it. So yeah, no, that's great. Great advice. And the, you know, I always tell people too, like, do you— like, anyone can use insurance. Like, there's no reason— there's, there's nothing to stop you from talking to somebody all day long. Yeah, if you really, if you really want it, right? I mean, I had an agent used to go to Walmart, just go to Walmart, just like stalk large families and sell a bunch of insurance, you know what I mean? Like, if you hang out at Walmart all day long and you're—

you will find some people.

You're gonna, you're gonna sell insurance to somebody.

Great, dude. I tell everybody, like, everybody— leads are great. I'm a lead guy.

Yeah, me too.

But if you open your front door, if you're struggling with leads or struggling with money, if you open your front door and just look outside, there's 400 million leads out that door. Yeah, go find some. Generate business. Go to referral. Go create referral partners. Go to local whatever, community meeting. You mean there's a million ways to create business? You're in sales, you are independent, you know what I mean? Like, go get business. If it's not gonna just fall out of the sky and hit you in the head, maybe you got to go generate it for a time.

Yeah, and that's the thing, it's like, if you're, uh, if you— things are that bad and you're that broke, just do— you do— you do whatever— whatever you got to do. Do what it takes, dude.

I got a guy in our group that would take Ubers. He would literally Uber. He didn't have a car. He would Uber to apartment complexes and knock on doors all day and go, hey, my name is Jorge, seeing if you need help with life insurance. And he would knock on 100 a day for $7. He would Uber there, knock on doors all day, and then Uber home in the evening.

I bet he made sales.

$300 grand last year.

He could buy a car now.

Not one lead.

That's awesome.

Didn't purchase a lead. Yeah, generated his own.

Yeah, I like it. I like it. Um, Valerie, as a mentor, what core principles do you emphasize to help agents achieve success in their careers? That's it, plug in the book again.

I mean, that's— this is who I am, right? And I'm going to show you. So can you read? I don't know how well that— it might not come in. No, see if I can get it. Hold on, can you read them?

No, your camera's too good. See, if you didn't have as good of a camera, you'll be able to probably— fuck, everyone go, go to—

no, don't go to— so if you buy it from the website, it's on Amazon, but if you buy it from my website, first of all, it's $12. Everyone was like, charge $30. I'm like, it's $12. Like, I'm gonna not lose money on it, uh, but if you get it from the website, my staff ships it out and I sign it and we send all kinds of extra shit with it. Um, but the, the core principles— Do More actually means something also besides like— I do believe most of y'all should literally just literally do more. I do believe that. But at its core, when I look back at what things I had to do in this business to be what most people would consider really successful, the Do More is an acronym and the D stands for discipline, which is what I was trying to show you. You guys can write it down again. You can read about it too. But discipline, ownership, mistakes, obsession, resilience, expectations, you know. And again, they're all relatively self-explanatory, but I— we could get deep. I mean, you can— I get— I do get deep into them in the explanation, but those core things, again, you have to have discipline, you have to have ownership, meaning do you really work or do you not? Do you suck on the phone or do you not? Do you actually study your career or do you not? Are you negative and whiny or are you not? Like, who are you? And do you own it? And are you willing to make changes? Mistakes, which I explained, go make a ton of them. There's so much value in mistakes that people don't— that people don't take. You mean like, it's, it's where you learn the most if you do it right. If you make a mistake properly, it's so valuable, you know. Obsession is what it is. Again, everybody at their top is obsessed with a lot of things. We tend to have obsessive type personalities. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty, pretty obvious. Um, resilience. Like, we all got shit in life. Like, I hear you, you got stuff, dude. Amen. Welcome to the party. Everyone virtually raise their hand if you got stuff in life. Like, nobody cares. Keep working. You know what I mean? Like, it is what it is.

But you don't understand, my situation is different.

You just have to get through stuff. You know what I mean? Um, and then expectations. You explained it, not only of yourself, but it's really expectations. If you think about this, like any, any, any situation or person you're mad at right now, think about someone you're pissed at, you're just frustrated with, you're annoyed with— an agent, your family, whoever. I'd be willing to bet money it's because you expected the situation to be different. That's the core at why you're mad. Because you expected it to be handled differently, you know what I mean? And so when you can control your own expectations, your emotions change, dude, you know. And so it's just a fine line. And then as simple as you said, when you're recruiting and doing things and dealing with clients, you should set proper expectations with people. Um, so I can get super deep on all those things, but those are the principles, and that's what made the book. The book is who I am, you know. It came out of everything I've done over the last 10 years. So hopefully that helps.

All right, we got, uh, Lauren, and this might be a duplicate question, we'll see. Um, what's the best advice you'll give to agents in their first year?

Um, I'll answer it slightly differently so we don't— we're not redundant, um, to kind of the variation of the question that was similar. I think that every one of you has the ability to change your life in this industry, and I believe that you all deserve it as much as David and I deserve it. I don't think I deserve success any more than any one of you do, and I do believe it's possible for any one of you that puts in the work that David or I put in. You know, I've never seen someone ever— you know what the one commonality that everyone that is doing really well in this business has?

What's that?

We didn't quit.

There we go. Same reason we all walk, right?

That's it, bro. Fall down, you get up. You fall— I still fall down, dude. You like— you think it gets easier? Meaning if you're struggling dealing with hard stuff now Bro, you're just in the kiddie table right now. Like, this— like, business gets serious. Personalities, oh my God. Deal with you and your situation, cool. Deal with 40 of them, 80 of them. We had 6,000 agents last year. You know how much shit I get put on my plate? You know what I mean? But I just keep figuring it out. And for me, again, I truly believe, dude, I'm not doing anything in life. I had my— I sold my agency a few years back, and company that acquired me, I'm a rounding error to that guy. They have 650,000 agents. My 6,000 fall off, he doesn't notice. Their EBITDA was $2.5 billion last year. 2.5 billion net. Cut million, everyone's excited about. I'm like, dude, I'm doing nothing in our space, right? You print money with 2, 3, 400 client applications a year. There's 400 million people out there. You need this much to have success, you know what I mean? So for me, the, the advice is always like, you can do it if you do what it takes. And you deserve it, you know. But unfortunately, most people don't believe in themselves, and my job and part of my goal is to help more you believe in yourself, as long as you're willing to continue to put in the work and continue to try to get better, um, you know. And I've seen very successful people quit. You know how many $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 producers I've seen quit? You know how many people with $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 groups I've seen go to zero I mean, dude, it's more have quit than haven't, I promise you that. So many of you have asked if there's an option for more access, more direct coaching, and so we've created a coaching platform called the Winner's Circle where you have a couple different options. There is a one-on-one option to where we can work directly with you on a regular basis, and then there's a small group setting, 4 to 6 people, really high achievers looking to get to just a new level in their career. We've had a ton of success in this already. First month, actually, the first guy that joined deposited $7,500, worked with them back and forth one-on-one. The very next month, he deposited over $30 grand. So basically a 5x return on his income in 30 days. So if you're looking for something like that, you can click on the link below, get access to an application, because I'm not taking everybody. I do want to make sure it's a good fit for both of us. And if we feel like you'd be a good fit, we'll set up a one-on-one call directly with me and kind of go through your struggles, what you need help with, and what I expect of people that are joining the coaching program. So if you feel like it'd be a good fit for you and something you want more of, click the link below and we'll see you on the other side. Welcome to the Winner's Circle. You know, and so it's like I just try to breathe life into people, you know. And unfortunately, most, most people don't believe in themselves enough to keep going. And I wish more people would because they see some I wish I could, like, I wish I had, like, documentary style every step of my journey. I wish I could take people on my first appointment. I wish I could take people back to my first recruiting call. I just, I wish, I wish I could do that, you know. I'm like, that I would, that I would bring you on. Would I bring you on one today?

What's—

it doesn't matter. Like, they have 12 years of experience. It's not going to feel the same for you as it does for me today, you know what I mean? So I just, I don't know, I just— all of you can do this thing. Unfortunately, the true reality is most of you won't, you know, and that's why the high turnover. I saw that other question. Yeah, why the high turnover?

Because I was excited to hear that your answer to that, like, most people are weak, dude. Why? You tell me, right? It's like, you, you know people, you tell me why.

You know, when—

why do they quit?

Recruiting questions that drives me crazy, and I answer it the same every time. It's like when, you know, when people are trying to challenge you, like why they should even work with you, and they're like kind of interviewing you. Drives me crazy, dude.

Yeah, I love it.

But I've learned how to deal with it. But a lot of people go like, what's the average agent do?

Are you planning on being average?

I go, the average agent quits. You planning on being average?

That's even better.

I say what you say after I say the truth. Yeah, because the average agent does quit. Yeah, you know what I mean? I'm not the guy that's like, the average agent does X amount. Nah, dude, the average agent quits. That's what the reality is.

Let me get going. I wasn't planning on talking to someone who was planning on doing things.

Which, thank God, if we changed it— I didn't— I don't remember who asked the question. If we did, let's pretend we could change it, you know, I wouldn't want to.

Yeah, why?

Supply and demand. Basic economics. The only reason this industry pays as well as it does is because most people quit and they need someone to do it, so they incentivize crazy suckers like us to keep doing it. That's the reality. If everyone won here, what do you think the commissions would look like?

And everyone would be covered already. Oh, my uncle's an agent, my brother's an agent, my sister is an agent. I talk about that actually weekly in a training that I, that I do for David and Elle. Like, I'm like, you should be happy it's hard. They're all looking at me like I'm crazy.

Yeah. The other side of it is too, as you like your recruiting, bro, so many people get frustrated with agents, right? Because they don't do A, B, and C, and they didn't learn this, and they didn't listen to me do that, and they didn't— they're not good at this, and they didn't show up to the training. All the things that I quite frankly get frustrated with too. But at the same time, I'm super grateful for it Because if the agents were everything we wanted them to be, what on earth would they need us for?

Yeah.

And then I wouldn't get paid, you know what I mean? So it's like, without the people that are struggling, I don't get to be who I am, you know what I mean? And I don't, I don't think I deserve to get paid if I'm not actually helping people get to a new level, you know? It's like those I always see people get like— this is weird, but it kind of relates— you see people like— and it is annoying, but if you see people like that clean in the airport and they get frustrated because there's a mess on the floor, I'm like, I get it's frustrating, but you know, without the mess on the floor, you don't have a job. Because this weird dynamic where you kind of need both, you know. Um, so I don't know, dude, it's learning to see things in different perspective along the way too.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna touch on, on that real fast. So, so next time you're dialing leads and no one's answering, or they're hanging up on you, or they're being angry, or somebody hasn't been able to make the magical lead that everyone answers and buys from you, be grateful. Because if they did, you'd be out of a job, 100%, because you're the only one crazy enough to do it. And that's why you're gonna get a chance to be able to make the kind of living you're gonna be to make. Or you got to go right back to your job making $15 an hour.

The carriers have tried to do direct-to-consumer. Yeah, Mutual of Omaha is one of the biggest companies on the planet, and they desperately tried to do direct-to-consumer and can't figure it out. Yeah, and those direct-to-consumer prices, if you've ever run into— especially in the final expense world, y'all have run into that Mutual of Omaha product that's cheap as all get-out. Why is it cheap? Because they don't pay a commission on it. Does it make sense? So it can be cheaper. So it's— but they just can't figure out how to scale it, you know.

So, thank goodness, take advantage while they can because opportunities come and go, right? So take advantage of it while you're here.

Yeah.

Uh, we got Adam Hale. Uh, what's your recruiting process look like and what's your biggest recruiting channel? I'm sure that's changed over the years.

Um, for sure it's similar in concept No, um, I'm gonna give a concept more than process because I do have a full process, but most people don't need it because they're not really recruiting a ton of people. But I'm— and I've built an entire process over the course of 10 years. I have a full automated onboarding, you know. I mean, it's not magic, but like, as you start to figure things out, you tweak things along the way. So everything I've done, I've learned from, um, and we've, we've put a lot of things into place to track things and find mistakes and follow up with people and drip campaign. I, there is like an annoyingly, um, and I'm super proud of what we've built, uh, process that, that we do have, a system that we have. And, and we do, we sell it to people externally because a ton of people ask for it. But I'm going to give concept because I think it applies to more people, um, and it's more relevant and probably a better answer. I would say the biggest concept shift that I give people when I'm recruiting— most people, Adam, when you're recruiting, you're looking to hire people. Fair. Recruiting in order to hire people. My recruiting process when I'm speaking to people is trying to find a way to get off the phone as fast as possible. I'm trying to find a reason that it's not a fit as fast as possible. I'm trying to find out that you're not going to do what you say you're going to do as fast as possible. I don't care what your result— I don't care the answer. I don't care if you do it or don't do it. I just want to know now. That's it. I want to know who you are now. So I'm not really looking for people's words, dude, because everyone's going to tell me everything I want to hear. They're going to tell me all the good things. They're going to give me all— you think I'm going to— are you going to be coachable, dude? What's everyone going to say?

Yeah, I'm listening.

40 states, everyone who wants coaching from me, are you willing to invest? Oh yeah, one scale of 1 to 10, I'm a 27. You know what I mean? If it's not $48 a month, they're like, I can't do it. You know what I mean? It's like everybody has words, dude. So I just don't believe them. And I don't— it's like clients. I just, I don't believe their excuse, their objections either. So for me, um, I'm, I'm trying to understand people. I want to make sure that they understand who we are as an industry. 1099, commission only, leads. Like, I want to understand that concept. They understand what they're getting into. I want to understand that they have a willingness to invest. And if they're broke, they sure as hell better have a job, because it's weird to have no job and be broke and be sitting at home. I just— I don't vibe with that kind of person. Um, so I'm not looking to hire everybody. It's very counter to the industry. Most people that are recruiting just spend the entire time answering questions of the agent that they're quote-unquote recruiting. So they're actually interviewing you. So for me, I just take control of the conversation, and I want to know a lot about the person that I'm talking to to see if they're a good fit for me, you know. And I'll say that, like, hey, tell me your— what carriers do you use? What's your comp? What are your leads? What's your average? This, that, or the other. I go, great questions, David. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions first to see if you'd even be a good fit for me? They all go, yeah, no problem. And then I just start asking questions. I want to understand. David Ant mentioned some of them earlier. Their schedule, what do you do for work? I want to know all the stuff. I want to know what I'm working with, you know. Um, so for me, again, it's a little bit more of a strategy. I'm literally and very intentionally trying to weed out as many people as possible, as fast as possible. Um, and you don't have to— I'd rather you be like, dude, I can only work 3 days a month, but I, I, I got 2 kids and I'm a mom and I just want to run every third Saturday. Dude, I'd rather you tell me that than say you're gonna kill it and then not pick up the phone the first day, you know? So I'm looking for authentic and, and, and people who just want to achieve things, dude. Um, and then I feel like there was a second part to that question. I damn forgot. Oh, biggest recruiting channel. Um, so you can get unlimited recruiting leads.

I—

you can literally get unlimited recruiting leads. Anywhere on the planet starting right away. We got a guy on our recruiting, one of the coaching clients, we got him on yesterday. He got, I think Amanda said in the first 12 hours he got like 200 recruiting leads. Literally, like, there you can get them unlimited. Um, now they're not going to be amazing and they're not magic. They're mostly, quite frankly, dipshits, because the average person is, quite frankly, that also, you know, I mean, it just is what it is. So the actual channel that works the best always is warm market. So I didn't have a big warm market, so I recruited cold through any platform you want. Literally pick one, they all work. Indeed, ZipRecruiter, CareerBuilder, Craigslist— they all— none of them are magic, and they all suck kind of at the same time. Facebook ads, it doesn't matter. What I did really well is immediately I look at every agent to me as a recruiter because they know people I don't know. So I find out who people know fast. Does it make sense? So if I, if I'm interviewing you, I'm like, hey, yeah, you know, blah, maybe it's working out, maybe it's not. I'll give an example. I interviewed this dude, um, in Utah because I used to fly to Utah to sell insurance, and when I was out there, I would do recruiting interviews at the hotel. And, uh, so I go out there and this dude Jesse, I interview him And he's, I'm gonna kill it, I was the number one sales guy at my last company. Ah, he's that rock star, right? Like, cool. As part of the process, dude, I'm trying to build this agency. I explain who I am, what I'm doing. He kind of met the first criteria, so we kept talking, you know. So we kind of get into a formal interview, and, uh, I'm telling him I'm trying to grow the business, and I'm like, hey dude, do you happen to know— you seem like a really sharp guy, my guess is you know other people looking for opportunity. Is there anyone else you can connect me with? Because I'm looking to train and build more people and teach more people how to make $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 in insurance. Do you know anybody else? He goes, yeah, I know this dude, uh, I always forget his name. There's like another guy, I think it was He's like, yeah, I know this guy Juan in Texas. I'm like, cool, connect me with him. Same thing with Juan. I'm like, hey, do you know anybody else? He goes, yeah, I know this girl Jackie in, in, uh, Missouri. Jackie, they connected me with Jackie's team, ended up getting up to like $250,000 a month. Jesse never got contracted, never even filled out paperwork. But I found out who he knew on the interview, much less when I'm working with agents along the way. I'm always like, dude, I'm trying to build, who else do you know? I just want to teach other people, who else do you know? And I just very nicely, dude, I'm always asked. So the real channel was other people's warm market for me because I don't, I don't have a very big warm market. I have small family, I've moved around a lot, I just, I'm not super connected. But I utilized other people's relationships and I blew up utilizing other people, um, and who they know. And I literally ask everyone, um, if you don't have money to recruit, you can ask every client, who do you know? Hey, now that we're done with this, David, got you taken care of, I have a question. My company's growing, we're getting a lot of people like you, just like you, looking for insurance. We're growing, I'm hiring people. Do you happen to know anybody else that could do what I just did for you, looking for extra money? You ask that 10, 15, 20 times a week, you'll find some people.

You just, you just got your, uh, your time paid back for, for showing up, right? That right there, like that right there, there's, there's my $10,000 I invested in you, right? Like that, that right there. Um, it's so easy.

It's free. And most people say they want to build, but most people won't do that. Literally tomorrow, everyone will run appointments tomorrow.

Most people won't ask that many presentations a week. That's 20 people that, that you just asked that. You— oh, you don't want to pause? No problem. Do you know anyone?

How many will go, wait, extra money? Can I do it?

Yeah, dude.

And I've, I've closed clients and then done the math on my commission right there with them.

Yeah, yeah, I like it.

So there's lots of different ways, dude, but at its core, it's, it's warm market, whether of you or someone else.

I like it. Uh, let's see, what's the average premium in sales?

I saw that our average company-wide, $1,200 AP per app average, still with thousands of agents.

And then, uh, what specific SOPs do you use to ensure new agents hit the ground running and experience early success? I think Valerie's on the ChatGPT kick with these questions here. But, uh, you know what's funny?

Like, I really wanted to like SOPs. First of all, I didn't know what that meant like 2 years ago. Uh-huh. Some of y'all might not know what it means. Do you know what it means?

I came from the Army, so it's—

you did?

They had an operating procedure. Yeah, yeah.

I don't— to me that was like, huh? Like, I literally, dude, I'm too dumb for that word, I swear. I just don't. So, but I did look into it and I'm like, oh, this sounds cool, let's make some. But, ah, dude, you know what, I just do this so often, and everybody's situation is so different. Yeah, the biggest SOP I have is get on the phone now. Get on the phone now. Get on the phone literally now. Yeah, and that works better than anything else I've ever created to give people. And certainly we have trainings and we have stuff, but I don't give people like a manual. I found when I do that, I'm making this business seem more complicated than it is.

Right.

If I tell people they need to go through 3 weeks— I know someone that does a 3-4 week boot camp before they get started. Like, you know how much you're overcomplicating this? You know, so I see value in why you're asking the question for sure, but where do— by far, and it's not even close, other than not getting started, once an agent gets started, where is 50x the point where they fall off?

Where do they fall off when they get started?

Where do they fall off? Like, at what, what activity causes people to quit? And it's not even close.

Well, when they're— I mean, they, they usually, they quit because they're not given the activity. It's what—

I know, but what's the scare point? What scares them?

The objections?

Yeah, on the phone, right? Literally, the phones. Yeah, kills everyone in this business.

That's where they start digging in and you're like, what you used to do for a living? I used to be a roofer, right? Or like, you know, so you're like on the roof in like Florida in July and that's more comfortable than picking up the phone and calling someone.

So for me, what I've learned, once I get someone started, people live or die by the phone. Yeah, I don't care how much training you got, I don't care if you know any PQ and all that, none of that matters. I've seen really, really good people quality people, great salespeople, people smart as shit, get on the phones and melt. You know, the one question I still can't answer, dude, is how do you know who's gonna win and who's not in this business? Who's gonna be successful? I can't pick it at all. I literally can't do— I still to this day, yep. And now I know it's going to be someone who does the activity but I can't predict that person literally ever.

Nope.

If I had to pick 100 people, I'd be wrong at least 99 of them. I just would. It's so hard to predict, like, the grit and the ability to stay with it. So I don't, I don't get too deep. Um, I don't know who asked that. Was it Valerie? I don't know the name. Um, but I, I just don't— again, I don't need a ton, a big process to go, here's a script, get on the phone. And even if I gave you the script, to be clear, I give you a— I could give you the perfect script. Can you say it like me the first time?

It doesn't exist. Just so you know, there's no perfect script.

I know, but I have one in my back pocket. I got it in my back pocket. It's like the secret KFC recipe, right? I have it. But if you're brand new, can you say it anyway, right? There's zero chance. Yeah, literally zero, you know what I mean? So it's like, what matters is the willingness to learn the business. And but I have to have a willingness as someone mentoring and coaching people to go through that process with someone, you know what I mean? And catch them when they fall and let them know it's going to be okay. So for me, it's, it's a lot of contact, uh, more than it is like, here's a manual, go. We've tried— I've tried, I'll be quite frank, I tried. It don't work. It overwhelms people and You know, I don't— I don't know. I'm not saying it can't work, it just doesn't work for me. And what I've done works. So honestly, a lot of it's here, just communicating it, you know what I mean? Learn how to— again, I'm doing all this off the rip. I don't— I don't need an SOP to do this shit either. So please don't take offense, sometimes I get feisty and I don't know.

You're good, man. I, uh, I'm the same. Everyone knows that I'm super straightforward. But I really brought it down this simple, like, do you need an SOP, right? To take your grandmother to a new doctor's office and fill out the new intake form for her, because that's what we're doing, correct? Right. You don't go there and be like, oh wait, I got a form, hold on, Grandma, we're gonna need some training, I don't know. It's like, that's what you're doing, you're filling out an application for insurance for somebody that can't do it themselves, correct? That's it.

A lot of this is learning how to get people out of their own way, in a sense. Yeah, I mean, so it's like what I've learned is people go like, well, I just— the product, I just— oh, I mean, I need to know the product. I'm like, all right, what is the product? Someone dies, they get a check. That's what the product is. What you're worried about, I assume, is whether or not they qualify for said product, the underwriting of the product. That's where you're worried. Good news is you have an application. I'm like sarcastic like you. I go, good news is there's an application and it's in English. So where it asks first name, you type first name.

There you go.

Where it asks for address, what do you think you type?

Address.

You're quick.

I've been doing this for a while.

That easy. And the good news is, in the background, they figure out if they're eligible or not based on the input you put in. You can literally be a dumbass and go through that. Now, should you learn your underwriting and your product before you get to that point? Yeah, with time you should. I think you should know your underwriting and your product with time, but day one, week one, you're not going to know it anyway. And to be quite fair, even if you did, you're going to suck at asking the questions to the client, and they're going to hose you and tell you they're healthy as a horse, and you're going to find out during the MIB check that they're not healthy, you know. So I just, I just teach people like that, and I try to make it— I just simplify the the shit out of this, dude, you know. Um, and that, that tends to make it easier than given all this formal stuff, because most people overthink. Yeah, you know, absolutely.

Awesome, brother. Well, I, I appreciate you coming on, man. Um, give us an hour and a half of your time, man, so that's super cool, man. I hope everyone learned a ton from you. Um, I did, right? Like always, man. Like I said, I always enjoy listening to you talk and, um, you're not— no-nonsense approach to teaching insurance, which I, I could relate to a lot, man. Um, where can people find you if they want to link up with you, learn from you, buy a book, get a shirt?

Yeah, um, not hard to find on the internet, that's for sure. Uh, it's on the website, johnwetmore.com. If you, if you do, again, if you do get the book off of there, um, you'll like it better than if you buy it off Amazon. It's on Amazon. You know what, I'm gonna tell the truth right now. You know why it's, you know, you know, on Amazon, you know the reason people put it on Amazon? Is because they want the bestseller thing, right? So I got Amazon bestseller, like I'm that— you know how fake that thing is?

How fake, dude?

I got it after 6 books.

Really?

It's the fakest thing ever. It's not real. So everyone that says they're Amazon bestseller, like, just— now some people might actually sell a lot of books, right, right? But they emailed me a congratulations after the 6th, like in 4 minutes.

That's funny.

Yeah, it's just, it's like per category how many you sell in an hour. It's like, it's not— it's so silly. Um, and they take 40% of the sale.

Oh wow.

Yeah, so I'm like, I'll just send you a bunch of free shit and sign it. Yeah, you know. Um, anyway, so yeah, JohnWetmore.com, you can get the book, you can follow all my stuff. We have a newsletter, I give away a ton of free shit. There's an events page. Um, with everything I'm doing, Instagram, I'm just @johnwetmore. Um, certainly if you want to, I love when people tag me or hit me up with stories and cool things, but definitely not hard to find. And again, if you buy some stuff, I actually sign them all and send them out.

And who wants to see me and John Wetmore do an event together? I think we were talking about doing, uh, doing something sometime. So let's, uh, I don't know why we haven't yet, bro. That's it. Well, I had a—

we're having, we're having an event Uh, he— in my office in February. Maybe we should, maybe we should coordinate. I'll do another one though, somewhere else. I don't care. We should do some one somewhere dope.

Dope. Puerto Rico.

Yeah, I ain't mad at that. But I got one in my office coming up in February. We do—

you're in Atlanta, that's, that's not— that's easy to get to from here. I think they got direct flights. So cool, we'll talk about some more. Cool, let's go. Okay, man, appreciate you. Thank you so much for jumping, jumping in, man. Uh, excited to do some more stuff with you real soon. And, uh, thanks guys, appreciate everyone. And let me know who you want as the next guest. So gonna keep providing value.

Thank you. Not me and you every week, huh?

No, not every week.

I'm kidding. Later, bro.