How To Make $100,000 In 89 Minutes (Insurance Sales Training) | Ep55

What's up, y'all? John Wetmore. Welcome back to another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Today we decided to do something really cool. A lot of y'all looking for scripting and sales techniques and questions to ask and closings and all this stuff. So we decided we're going to take a few of the most popular episodes that are very heavily sales-based, mash them up all together and put them into one cool episode. For those of y'all that haven't seen them all, this would be like the highlight reel of some of the best episodes and best players we've had on the podcast. So hope you enjoy it and look forward to seeing you all there. What do you think has led to some of the success? Obviously, I know, you know, certainly systems and leads and all that jazz helped, but again, you've only been around— would you say 5 months? This is month 5 now.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, even being here this short, you're in an office, so you've already seen people even in our system that you're in and with the leads you have that don't figure out how to make it work. Fair. Like, some people just don't have it, dude. So what do you think has led to you going from like no money, just barely out of high school, a few years, and, and knocking down 50 G's a month in, in insurance sales? What do you— like, specifically, what are the things helping you besides I have the mindset, I want to win, I want to work a lot? Like, what are you actually functionally doing that's helping you hit those, those numbers?

Yeah, so I think there's a bunch of things that are super important. One of the main ones is we work in a copycat business, so you don't have to make up, you know, a bunch of new things that you have to try and hope that they work. So I was able to find someone and a couple people that had everything in place, and all I did was just apply exactly what they told me to do. They told me, like, when I first started, I was living in California, and they told me to work 12 hours a day. They said 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. Perfect. I had no results. They did. I'm going to listen. So I worked 12 hours a day and I thought, I thought it was going to be crazy, but I did it because I knew that, like, they had the results. So I listened to what they told me. They told me to work 12 hours a day. Perfect. I'm going to work 12 hours a day. And then mainly is like A lot of people, they get too high on like the high days, like the really successful days. They get really low on the hard days. But you're going to fail in this business if you don't stay level-headed. So I'll be honest, I came off and I killed it right away. My first 9 days I made sales. My 10th day I didn't. But like that 10th day I got a little bit low and I was like, oh geez, like I'm not too sure if like maybe I was doing something wrong. So that taught me that I have to stay super level-headed with what I do. So if I sell 3, 4 in a day, or I sell 1 or 0, it doesn't matter. For me, what I measure is activity. So as long as I work the hours that I said I was going to work and I actually worked— so I'm not talking to people for 2 hours about nonsense, I'm not scrolling on Instagram, just a waste of time— then it's a successful day. So it's finding people that have results, listening to them, staying level-headed, and then just working day by day to get better. Like my first day I met Ronnie, he told me, hey, your first month, focus on learning, not earning. And I was like, okay, that makes sense, but I want to make money, right? right? But I took a step back and I'm like, well, let me understand what he actually means by that. And my whole focus my first month, I don't care how much money I make. It doesn't matter. If I can learn every single day and get better at my objections, get better at my script, get faster at filling out applications, build the why a little bit better, dude, I'm going to make so much more money than I ever imagined was possible. And that's what I did. And then I deposited $15,000 my first month. And then from there, I never looked back. I just never looked back.

What was the hardest part so far? I guess I use it loosely because it's only been 5 months and you're killing it. But was anything like, damn, this one took me a minute to figure out?

Yeah. So I mean, like, since I'm scaling and building a team, what's, what's been like the biggest learning curve for me is managing my time really properly and well. So like selling at a high level and recruiting people and making sure that they're getting paid. My first couple guys, it was tough, but like my third month when I brought 6 people in the business and I kind of learned from my mistakes. One thing I always do is if I make a mistake, I'm learning from it. It's never going to happen again. So I structured my time really, really well that month and I was able to get 2 of my guys paid over $10,000 that month. But initially it was tough to manage both, but now I'm really good at it.

What were you, was it, was there something specific you had to change time-wise?

Yeah, so I mean, I just wasn't really properly setting sections in my, in my day. So like it was kind of just like, all right, I'm working 12 hours. So like I'm dialing, helping, dialing, helping someone with an app, hopping on a recruiting call. Going over objections, training, like it was just kind of jumbled into one day instead of like structured out properly. So now it's like morning I'll train and then I'm dialing and helping you guys on the phone because we're on Zoom or in office helping them. And then at night I'm going over applications with people, I'm going over objections. If you started that day, that week, like let's get everything figured out and then like hop on recruiting calls at night. So it's all structured properly now. To where if someone comes to me in the middle of the day and they're asking me about something that they know we do at night, I'm going to tell them, hey, call me tonight. Like, you know what I'm doing right now?

So boundaries with it, too.

Boundaries and respecting your time. Like, you have to respect your time. It's really important.

I love it, dude. What up, insurance agents? If you're looking for a roadmap on how to win in this industry, check out the book I wrote about a year ago, Do More Now, Get Better Later. Check out the reviews here somewhere. My team's putting them on. I'm getting tons of great feedback about all the people it's helped. Appreciate those of y'all that have bought it. Appreciate all the reviews that are going out. If you're new to following me or the industry, check out the book and get it in your hands now. Well, let's get into some of the sales stuff, dude. I have a note here. My team put your big on using a script and they capitalized big, so I'm guessing they found something out. Um, which— what's your thoughts on scripts and how to use one? And even if you want to share what you do that works, that'd be dope.

Yeah, no, 100%. Um, scripts are massive, especially if you have no experience. Even if you do have experience, like, you need to have a structured script that have sections throughout. But it's really important to go through a section, have the client agree with what you're doing, and then move on. And like, if top people are saying certain things and they're just reading the script, like, why would you drift off from it? So until you have the script down, you have it figured out, there's no reason to drift off from that. And the intro, it's real simple, right? Like, you know, like, hey, John, have them respond to you and then let them know, like, you're getting back to them about the request. Confirm their date of birth, and then jump into the concern, set the structure.

Do it. Yeah. Hell yeah, go for it.

Yeah.

Okay. Hey, John?

Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, John, this is Tanner. I was just giving you a quick call here from the Benefits for Veterans office. How you doing today?

Doing great, bro.

Okay, well, that's good to hear. Yeah, I was just calling you here in regards to the request that you sent in for the new final expense and life options for veterans. I got your date of birth here listed as January 1st, 1950, correct?

That's right. Yep.

Okay, gotcha. And then it shows here on mine for your military status, you're honorably discharged. So I want to say, you know, thank you for your service. Now, was your main concern, uh, just like most veterans, you know, just wanting to make sure the funeral expenses doesn't fall a burden on your loved ones?

I mean, I just want to kind of see options. For sure.

Okay, gotcha. And is it mainly for those funeral expenses, or were you looking to, you know, leave something behind for your loved ones as well?

Um, kind of depends on pricing.

Yeah, of course, sir. It's all going to be based on, you know, your age as well as your health. Um, so most veterans mainly focus on those funeral expenses, and then, you know, if it's within their budget, they're looking to leave something behind as well. Is that The same for you?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay, perfect. So like, since you're kind of giving me a tiny bit of pushback, like, I'm not moving on, right? Like, I need to confirm what we're doing because I see a lot of new people just kind of move on, especially through the Y section. And it's like, hey, they told me that it's too expensive. Okay, well, did you even get their income?

Yeah, well, that's why.

So yeah, it's important to to figure out why I'm going to talk to you in the first place before—

yeah, you know, you're trying to establish some kind of like ground rules right from the jump. Like, yo, if we're not interested in this, what's the point of going forward?

Exactly, 100%. That's why you, you have enough leads to where you can move on.

Yeah, you literally asked me the same question 3 times in a row, for those that missed that. Yeah, so He just kept going back to it. Um, talked about like transitioning to the actual business. So again, I gave you a little— and I, again, some people are like, mine yell at me. Like, we're not going to get dramatic on the call. Like, let's just— you know, I mean, Skate, I want you to— I want to teach you the script. And as you use scripts, and especially with that tonality, you deal with less stuff. Fair? Yeah. Like when you— yeah, maintain. Um, and I know a lot of people have a hard time understanding that, but it, it's weird. Like a lot of it goes away when you are cool, cool, calm, collective, confident. And you just, you know, you don't freak out when someone gives you a little bit of pushback. Um, so how do you go from there? You know, I'm sure I— maybe I give you a little pushback, maybe I don't, but sure, I'm interested in more. How do you get me like in? I assume you're one-call closing.

Yeah, yeah, 100%, always. Um, yeah, so I mean, I'll set the structure first. So I'll be like, all right, so what we'll do here, spend about a minute or so on yourself, your financial situation, make sure we can find something affordable to you and within your budget. Then we'll just spend about a minute or so on your health, and that's really just going to help me navigate which one of the carriers will give you that approval today. Okay, sir.

If y'all can't figure out how to copy that— but it's really so— it's really simple and really direct. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like you're, you're setting the stage that it's gonna be quick, which I like. Yeah, right. Some people drag this thing out and they don't explain that it can be easy. And then you essentially told them, yo, I'm here to help you buy insurance. What's, what's the main— do you get any— if you get any pushback, is it there? And what do you normally get and how do you deal with it there?

Yeah, so usually when I get there, it's less pushback because like you were giving me that pushback before. I'm not saying that unless I know that they're somewhat interested in the first place. But sometimes people will say, a lot of the times, right? Well, you know, I'm not really available right now. I'm pretty busy. You know, so what I would say, yeah, I completely understand. This typically takes 5 to 10 minutes. We'll just take care of this now for you. So you don't have to worry about in the future. And then I'm not going to end there because most people end there. You need to end with what we're doing next. So I'll say, and now God forbid if you were to pass away. You know, who would be the beneficiary responsible paying for—

you're not pausing at that point waiting for them to respond is what you're saying. You tell them what we're going to do and then you ask a question.

Exactly. It's quite— it's question-based selling what we're doing. But when they're hitting you with an objection, a concern, you're going to handle it and then you're going to move on. Because if you just handle it, they're so focused on what, what the objection is, we gotta move there. Of course, you always have to agree with the client, confirm but we're gonna move it to what we're doing and why we're on the phone.

Yeah, that dead space kills people.

It does.

Maybe like, yeah, no, this only takes like 5 or 10 minutes, and then you stop. Or you— worse, you go, is that— is that okay?

Uh, that's the worst.

Yes, let's stop doing that.

No control.

Yeah, yeah, I love it. All right, cool. Um, all right, so go from there. What do you— what's— what's— no, how's it normally flow next? Or if you see any trouble spots you want to talk about, please do. You know, things you train your agents on. At any point you decide, I want you to dictate it versus me.

Yeah, no, so yeah, so we'll just jump into like the why section. So, John, now God forbid, you know, if you were to pass away today, who would be the beneficiary responsible for paying for the funeral expenses and picking up the pieces?

Sure, my wife Stephanie. She handles all that.

Your wife Stephanie. Okay, gotcha. And is your wife Stephanie, is she in a financial position to cover that funeral expense, or is that mainly why you were looking into this?

I mean, we have a few bucks, but I certainly want to make sure that she doesn't, you know, have to worry about anything. Okay, okay. I kind of handle the stuff. Yeah, yeah.

So like, if you were to pass away today, like, would she be able to come out of pocket for that, or is that mainly why you were looking to get something in place?

Yeah, for— I mean, I wouldn't want her to have to try to figure that out.

Yeah, no, I completely understand. And you know, that's why most veterans, they, they do send these requests, and they just don't want their loved ones to be burdened with those expenses, especially on one of the hardest days of their life. Uh, now, as far as how much coverage we're going to be looking at for you here today, have you thought about whether you're going to be buried or cremated?

Burial.

Burial.

Okay.

And do you know how much the burial typically does cost nowadays?

I have no idea.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, it's typically in the ranges of like $10,000 to $20,000. But it really just depends, of course, on, you know, the celebration and the fanciness of the service. Now, do you have anything put aside somewhere in a significant savings or any like life insurance that will help cover that cost? God forbid something did happen today.

We have a little bit in savings.

A little bit in savings. Okay. And what kind of had you, you know, thinking about getting something in place? Did you just not think that you had enough set aside for that burial?

Yeah, I mean, sometimes we have to dip into it, sometimes we travel, you know. Yeah.

And that money is obviously to live on, it's not to die on. And of course, as you get older, you're going to need that money, so You know, you're really just looking for something guaranteed to cover that funeral so your wife doesn't have to come out of pocket, correct?

Yes. Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

So your main goal as of today, since you just have a little bit of money set aside, you want something guaranteed to pay out to your family. So on one of the hardest days of her life, that she's really taken care of instead of left with the financial burden. Is that all right?

Yeah, yeah. You know what I love, dude? And I hope people catch this shit. Like, I'm trying not to be like hard, but I'm being more vague. And so many people take that vague yes and they run with it, you know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, dude, you lose people there. I don't know how many times I'd like to rewind now. I think you asked me 6 times if that's what I want, you know what I'm saying? And it wasn't weird, it wasn't like forced. You would just kind of like clarify, make sure, check tracking. Making sure we're on the same page, reiterating, wording it slightly, and using dope keywords like tragedy and guarantees. And you know, I mean, it's like some of this stuff, y'all, I hope you grasp what he's doing here is like you're selling the benefits without selling the benefits. Like, you know what I mean? Softly. It's really cool. As well as the need. Yeah, you know, um, I love it, dude.

And like, Like one thing to touch on, like that section, it's the most important. And yeah, I did repeat myself a few times, but I need, I need like the client to really hear it come out of my mouth twice. I need them to fully understand what we're doing. And especially if someone has some money set aside, like I'm going to make sure that I don't get hit with, you know, at the end, like, well, I have money. Like, no, if you get hit anything besides think about it or wife objection, you messed up somewhere because those are the only two objections. You need to pre-close everything before that. Um, and if you set it properly through that section, like, you will, uh, set up for like a very high close ratio.

Yeah. Where do you see people struggle the most, or what do you— what are you teaching people to implement the most besides obviously what you just explained it? But where do you see most newer agents that— because you're building a team already, which is dope. Kind of lose things there, even though you're saying it? Where do you see people mess up that little spot most, and how can they recognize it more so?

Yeah, yeah. So most people, they lose people in that section when they have something, when they have life insurance, or when they have savings. Because when they don't have anything, like, you know, it's pretty easy. It's more of an easier sale because they obviously need it. But when they do have something, if someone says like, you know, yeah, I have a ton of money set aside, or yeah, I have money, people just say okay. And then they'll say, okay, so your goal is to make sure that, you know, your wife doesn't come out of pocket. But they don't actually handle the con— like the objection. So they skip over it. It's like if someone tells you that they have life insurance, or that they have savings, or they have some sort of money that's for the funeral or just in general, you need to handle it and make sure you like isolate that so they understand why they need this in the first place. So people honestly just get scared, like they get scared to ask those hard questions. And, you know, most of my guys mess up a few of their first times because they're just nervous. But Once they understand, and I really dig on why it's super important to, to ask those hard questions, they understand completely on why they need to start implementing that.

Yeah. What if I said I had like, I got plenty of money, I got $50,000 in savings. Where are you going with it?

Yeah, so that $50,000, that's really just to leave a legacy left behind for your wife, make sure she's taken care of, and you were just looking for something just for that funeral guaranteed to pay out. You didn't want her like digging into that $50,000, correct?

Yeah, I don't know. I'm, I, I, I'm not sure. I mean, she has like— if she— if I died today, she'd use it.

Yeah, yeah, of course. Like, if you were to die today, you know, obviously you have a lot more life to live. And especially if like your car broke down, you, you need to repair some stuff in your house, you are going to need that money. While you're alive, not when you pass away. Isn't that right? Yeah, I would just— I kind of throw things out there.

You find— yep, you're, you're feeding them an answer, literally. Yeah, yeah.

I'm—

what about I said I had insurance? Be like, yeah, I got— I have something through work, and I think I have like a $10,000 I got, I don't know, 5, 6, 7 years ago.

Okay, I gotcha. And I mean, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of How'd you— thinking that you needed more coverage, you just not think that you had enough?

Yeah, I just— I wasn't really sure what it would cost, but I got it so cheap, you know what I mean? I'm just trying to figure out, like, I don't know, can I get some more and not pay a ton? I don't really know.

Okay. Yeah, of course. And you are 5 years older, so, you know, really depending on your health, it could be a little bit more expensive. But since you only have $10,000, you're really looking to factor in inflation. You know, make sure that the burial is guaranteed to be taken care of. Since, you know, if you live another 10 years, your wife will be coming out of pocket $10,000. You didn't want that to happen, right?

Correct. Yeah. Okay, I love it, dude. I love it. And smooth. So you've obviously, like, those watch— like, dude, he's made a lot of phone calls. That's clear. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because it's like, I— we have an answer for everything. And again, worst case scenario it doesn't work out, my guess is you just move on. What if they're just like, nah dude, I'm good. Nah bro, I got $10 grand's enough, man. I don't even know why we're talking.

Yeah, like, okay, so I mean, were you looking for life insurance, sir? Like, I'll just kind of throw that out.

I have some.

Yeah, so if they don't need it, like, I'll only show numbers to people where I know that they're going to say yes to me. If they're not going to say yes to me, no, I'm not showing you numbers. I don't do quick quotes. I respect my time, so I'll just move on. I'll say, all right, you have a good day.

I love it, I love it. I remember when I was— I, so I come from field sales, we'd go to their house, and when I was at that stage pushing, if they weren't, if they weren't convincing me that they needed something, dude, it was— I used to have to train agents, like, you'll just stand up and shake their hand and say, have a good day, and just, I'd fold my stuff up, put it in my bag, and walk out the door. And people are like, You just leave? Like, I mean, you want me to hang out begging him to buy? He said he didn't need it 22 times. You know, today's world, yeah, you can just be like, click, okay, bye. Okay, let's start with the first one then. We got selling, right? So let's teach them how to sell a little bit.

So we always do, um, one-call closes. So we don't really do appointments, we don't love it, do any of that.

Um, I hear a lot of people struggle with that. I get asked all the time like, how do I one-call close? I'm like, it's still people. It's so— some— let's, let's dive into that. You know, you teach it, so I'd be curious what's, what's important to make that work.

So the first thing is we always triple dial. We call them, the client, 3 times. I always try to have, um, a minimum of 30 points of contact for each lead. So that includes calls texting. You can leave voicemails. I don't really leave voicemails at all, but, you know, calling and texting, I would say 30 points of contact for, for each lead. Triple dialing. And we try to have 3 dial sessions in a day, 2 to 3. So 8 AM to maybe 11, 1 to 4, and then, you know, 5 to 8. And within those dial sessions, you want to be triple dialing and But you want to be hitting certain KPIs. So when I say KPIs, I mean, you know, what are the goals that we're trying to hit on a daily basis in an activity-based business? So within those dial sessions, John, we want to hit either 200 to 300 dials, or we want to hit 1 presentation, or we want to hit 1 sale. Now within those dial sessions, if you hit one of those metrics, that's considered a win.

So 300 dials, 1 presentation or 1 sale in that 3-hour window, whatever, 4-hour window.

Yeah, 8 AM to 11, and then the other 2.

Cool, love it.

And then, um, yeah, we just focus on consistently buying leads and also working referrals. So, um, you know, a lot of people think, you know, working in a lead-based business, we're just— we think buy leads, buy leads, buy leads, you know what I mean? It kind of gets that like bad stigma. And so if you're properly working your leads and, you know, working referrals off those leads, there's no way for you to not be profitable. So referrals have been a huge game changer for us in the last probably year or so. I used to never collect referrals because I was kind of scared of collecting referrals. I don't know, were you scared at one point too?

Yes, I was a lead— I was terrible at it, to be honest. I was a lead junkie for sure. It took me years to be like, oh, these are the best leads is the ones that my client— I just, I was very dumb about it early too. I was not good. Um, and then I, you know, with time I figured out, but I wasn't in the field that much longer after. And, you know, looking back, I'm like, oh, I messed that up a good bit. I'd have been— and I made good money, but it could have been smarter, you know. So we, we teach it a lot more than I did it, to be honest.

Referrals have an 80% close ratio. So yeah, it's It's the highest quality lead that you'll find out there. And so the way that we do that is we, you know, obviously collect their beneficiary and then we collect a contingent beneficiary and then we have 3 emergency contacts. So I mean, you can collect more, right? You can say that we need 10 emergency contacts if you want. Um, but then at that point, you know, you're going to get their emergency contact numbers and you're going to reach out and call them and text them.

Nice. And you tell the client why, obviously. How do you, how do you go about getting that info?

Yeah, so what I say to the client is I say, okay, John, so I'm sure you know that millions of dollars go unclaimed in life insurance every single year. That's because they don't let their families know that they have the insurance in place. So my job is to make sure that that doesn't happen to you. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to put you in a group chat, a group chat with your beneficiaries, and let them know who I am. That way, if they need to file Um, you know, the claim when something happens to you, they have my contact information.

Yeah, simple.

Yeah.

And what's wild is the angle's not only easy, it's true. When I was, when I was like your age, touch older, um, I used to work for the government as an accountant. And one of the things I had to do was— it wasn't— I was making $28 grand a year. I was like a very low-level dude who had an accounting degree. It wasn't that exciting, but thank you. No. So one of the things I used to have to manage was unclaimed funds lists and keep up with them because you have to contact them every— like, the state, the government has to attempt at least to contact people, but they don't try that hard. Um, and some of these lists would sit there for decades in people's names because the state then gets to hold the money and use it or leverage it or whatever, you know what I mean? It's, it's earmarked for the people if they claim it, but then after a certain period of time the state goes, all right, it's not yours anymore, it's ours, and they keep it. So like, my point is, as you— as we were looking at these, there was gajillions of people with life insurance that their families just didn't know it. It was insane how often that happened. Yeah, it was wild.

Um, yeah, so yeah, it is true. And so I mean, with the referrals too, it's, it's just a super easy sale because they already trust you. You already have that credibility. And it's a super easy transition, right? If they— most people don't have coverage is what I find when I work with girls. So it's super easy. And if they have it through work, you just have to break down and, you know, manage the expectations. Hey, you know, I'm sure you know your work insurance is like a company car. You only have it when you work there. And then, you know, kind of go into the sale that way.

What's funny is I I haven't sold insurance full-time in like 8 years, and, uh, I still get referrals, like a couple. I get like a couple a month. So I still write some policies, and they're all just— every once in a while I'll post a little something on social like, hey, I sold one today. Yeah, it's literally just someone referred me someone, it took me 20 minutes to write, $3,000 or whatever. My point is, they are easy. 8 years later, I still get them, and I don't even know how to get to half the apps, and I still make a few grand a month just from referral business that I'm certainly going to turn away.

I'm like, oh yeah, it's like a snowball. Like, this, this business is like a whole snowball effect. What you do today is not going to show up for either maybe 3 months, 6 months down the road. So it's crazy.

It's funny watching, um, having to get people to understand that, and then they usually kind of give up right before they hit that Little snowball gets started. Yeah, it's like it's a hard thing to absorb. Um, so cool, easy on the, easy on the referral thing. I want to go backwards just a little. If, how do you, if someone were to ask you, how do you, you know, maybe there's, maybe they're selling in the field currently. Like, I have one dude who I'm trying to help. He has a field sales team that can't figure out for some reason how to transition to telesales, one-call closing. And then I have individuals that just are like, they can't wrap their head around how to close a deal in one conversation. Um, so I would love for you to highlight again whether you want a script. I think would be cool, like, how do you go about it conversationally? How do you go about it? What's your mindset going into it? You know what I mean? And then how do you transition from like, hey, here's who I am, to like, dude, we're getting medical info, banking info, pick and plant, you know what I mean? Like, some people struggle, like, um How do they word it? Like transitioning to business in a sense. Yeah. Cool. Let's dive in there.

Yeah. So I think when I start the call, I give them my credentials. So I have them write down my name, my license number, and then I start the call off with what I call power questions. And that's just going to give me an idea about where they're at in this process and also I want to set up the call properly to start. So I ask them questions, you know, um, what were you looking at coverage for, just yourself, or do you have a spouse as well? I asked them, um, have you been trying to get this set up for a while now, or am I the first person you've been able to talk to? So that's going to eliminate any agents that are before you. I also ask them, are you familiar with, you know, how this works, you know, mortgage protection, life insurance, whatever? I ask them, is there anyone else that needs to be involved in this conversation, or do you make all of your final decisions yourself? So that's eliminating the main ones.

Yep. Yeah, I need to talk to my spouse, think about it, all that jazz. Yeah. How do you get there? I know agents that can't even get to that point, you know what I mean? They're like, I try, I just— how do I go from like, hey, I'm calling you back, to these power questions?

So I just go straight into it, right? So I say, okay, you know, I'm Vanessa Powell, here's my license number with the state. They just require me to leave that with you for your records. And then I send them over my business card. Okay, and John, are you kind of familiar with how mortgage protection works? Have you ever had it in the past?

No, no idea.

Okay, so it's pretty much what most people will think of. It's insurance that's going to either cover the full mortgage, partial of your mortgage, or there's some plans that will even protect the equity that you built in the home. Does that make sense?

Does.

Perfect. Now, were you looking at options for just yourself, or do you have a spouse as well?

I have a wife too.

Okay, perfect. And what's her name?

Stephanie.

Stephanie. Okay, perfect. And have you guys been trying to get this set up for a while now, or am I the first person you've been able to talk to about this?

First one.

First one. Okay, perfect. And I'm assuming since you're the one that had filled out the request, I'm assuming that you're the one that typically takes care of the insurance decisions for, for you and your wife?

I do. And this is true as can be. Stephanie wouldn't know where to begin to log into our banking stuff.

Perfect. You're kind of like me where we wear the pants in the relationship. So we'll make sure to go over those options for both you and your wife and then go into the presentation.

Yeah, that's the best.

It's—

and I wish people understood like how simple it is, but you're very intentional. You don't— these aren't— you're just not winging it. Like, the questions are planned and they lead to something, they prevent something. They're, they're on purpose, you know. And I find the most people that struggle with this, they just don't know they're on purpose, or even they're reading a script and they don't understand why they're saying— they don't study it, they don't understand the point of it, you know. And it's like, if you— like, no one asked if you can read to them. Like, story time is weird when you're trying to make a sale.

Yeah, and people think being good at sales is, oh, I know how to handle this objection, and oh, I know how to say this. But being good at sales and, you know, working in insurance, it's learning how to set the call up strategically where you don't get those objections in the first place. Because you can always, you can always feel it, right? You can always feel like if you're talking to someone and they have a wife, it's like, okay, I might get this objection, let's handle it now so at the end of the call I don't get that. You can feel it. So when you feel it, you should probably say something.

I remember being new and like feeling it, but pretended I didn't.

Right?

Yeah, it's self-sabotage. Literally self-sabotage.

Yeah.

It's like, that did not work real well.

Yeah.

I used to mess that up royally. That's funny.

Cool.

And then is there— can you give some clarity on how you set the precedent? Because I hear people say a lot, you know, I'm giving out quotes and I just, you know, I guess I'm not closing any though. I'm like, well, your thought process is— my opinion is, if you're the person that thinks they're giving out quotes, you're definitely just giving out quotes. Yeah, you know, but how do you like do business? Um, once you— questions, you know what I mean? Like, how are we setting it up, closing it, making sure we get banking, social, paid today, issue policies?

Cool. So go through the power questions, and then I explain, uh, you know, who I am, what I do, and how I do it. Um, Hey John, so this process is, is super simple. Everything is based on your age and your health. So just going to go through a couple of medical questions with you and that'll narrow down the options because we look at over 200 different insurance companies for you. So we work with insurance companies like Aflac, Mutual of Omaha, AmeriCo, Aetna. Have you heard of a few of those before?

Sure.

Yep.

Okay, perfect. Yeah, we only work with the best. Um, but once we pull up some options for you, John, We're going to look to see which company will most likely approve you, and then we'll fill out an application and make sure you can qualify. Now, as long as we find you a coverage amount, John, and a price that makes you happy, is there any other reason that you wouldn't want to see if you're able to qualify today for the coverage?

No, I think it makes sense.

Okay, great. And then I go into financial.

Yeah. What if you, what if you get objections there? Like, eh, how do you handle those? Or what do you get there for objections, first of all?

Yeah, it's two things. People either say what you just said, which is nope, no issues, right? Then the other thing that people say is, well, you know, I'm concerned about budget. And then I say, yep, John, that's what most people say. They just want to make sure it's affordable for them, but also solves their problem. That's why they have me giving you a call.

Makes sense. Bam. Just kind of brush it off. Yeah. And I think again, if I had to say where I think most people struggle and are very uncomfortable is setting the expectations as clear as you did. Yeah, that's why there's confusion for a lot of y'all at the end on why they would do business or why. Or they— or they word it more poorly. Like, you, you worded it really well, but some make it like, we're only seeing if you're eligible today, we're not doing business. Like, you made it really clear about getting coverage and, you know what I'm saying? It's like some people try that and then wuss it a little bit. They're a little afraid to go like, you know. So for me, I was always really clear and I'm like, yo, I say what she said. Same concept. Again, none of this stuff did we invent, to be clear.

Yeah.

And so I always train people like this. You always want to say what you're going to do, you do it, and then you say what you just did.

Yeah, right.

That's how it should be for every single thing, which is pitching options, going through the application. Always say what you're going to do, how it's going to work, because people just want to know what's going on. They just, you know, whether it's 5 minutes, whether it's, you know, just whatever it is, they want to know what's going on.

Yeah, it's like, that's normal in everyday life, and I don't know why people confuse it. But it's like, I was at the dentist the other day, I'm like, all right, John, we're gonna go in this room, we're gonna take x-rays in here, so I'm gonna have you open wide and put these things in your mouth, I'm gonna take some pictures, then we're gonna go in the other room, we're gonna do clean. And they explained every piece of the dental stuff we were about to do.

Yeah.

And then they just, like you said, did like this very normal stuff, you know. Um, so I think if y'all would just focus on the intentionality piece. The rest of it's relatively natural, conversational. Again, intentionality more than anything. Um, so dig it. And then, you know, from there, like, I even tell people at that point, I'm like, yeah, we'll have your insurance here in about 10 minutes, is that cool? Like, after all that other stuff, I'm just wide open about it. Like, oh, we can get you covered in like 10 or 15 minutes. Yeah, which is dope.

Yeah, people ask, I'll say that, be like, yeah, we should have an approval today.

Yeah. Yep, I'm just letting them know, you know. Um, I dig it.

Cool.

How did you learn how to get people from the procrastinators that just don't want to say no and they want to say, I want to think about it, I want to talk to my mom, my cousin, my daughter, my uncle, my attorney, whatever, you know what I mean? Like the ones that are just doing everything they can to not make a decision. Which is the best advice? Yeah, what's your best advice there, um, that you've learned to help push those?

First is have a uniform, uh, sales process. So I go through these phases, and I'm gonna tell you real quick. I'll go through the introduction. You have to be neutral. You cannot ask emotional questions at the beginning that quick, because if you and I go to the supermarket, John, and we go to the elevator, we're trying to go to the second floor to, uh, let's see, let's say we're looking for some rice, and there's this lady in there, let's say called Martha, and I ask Martha, hey, how's your mom? How weird is that going to be? That's weird, right? That's a very deep emotional question. How's your mom? And I don't even know you. Yeah, so eliminate asking emotional questions at the beginning of the call, like right at the beginning. Like, wait, wait a moment. Be neutral, uh, say neutral words like possibly. Hey, this is Melvin, uh, I'm calling you back because you, uh, were possibly interested in the life insurance, uh, for veterans. Is that what you were possibly looking for or something different? Leave it up to them. If they say yes, continue the conversation. They say no, I'll be looking for mortgage protection or maybe like, uh, retirement income planning. No? Okay, bye. Yeah, that's it. Don't waste your time. And then if they say yes, um, you verify some information. And then this is the paragraph that I say that diffuses everybody, uh, most everybody. Uh, so let's say you were born on March 27th, '55, right?

Yep. Right.

Okay. And, uh, before we go over what you might be looking for, John It might be appropriate if I just ask you a few questions just to make sure I can help you in the first place. For instance, do you have any life insurance right now? Yes or no? Most of them say no. After that, I use this to prevent the partner objection, or most objections. I say this when they, uh, answer my questions. I'll say, um, John, and, um, who's gonna, who's gonna benefit from you getting life insurance at your age? Who's going to benefit? Oh, my wife. Okay, what's her name so I'm not rude? Martha. Okay, and how Martha is gonna— I mean, and I do some interruptions so they can process what I'm saying. If you say too fast, they're old people, they're not going to process what you're saying. So you gotta make sure your pacing is correct. Slow down, take a breather, say, well, I mean, how is Martha gonna feel about you getting a life insurance at your age? And I say age to bring mortality because they're— most of them are like 60, 70. At your age, at your age, at your age. Yes, fool, at your age, you're about to die.

Yeah.

Um, yeah. So how smart they're gonna feel about you getting a life insurance at your age? Well, she's going to be all for it. Well, that's not for her. Like, they start saying stuff that the agent, the average sales agent says, but we're most persuasive based on behavioral science, we're most persuasive when the prospect says why they need the thing versus me saying why they need it.

Agreed.

Yeah. So why don't you make them say it?

So it's a high-quality question.

High-quality question. After you gain data on their— they got life insurance or not, and then their health. After you gain data on that, then you say, and how— who's going to benefit from this? Um, how is she going to feel about it? And if you want to probe them a little bit, if you feel like they can't make a decision or something, when doing decisions like this that affect the budget, how's your decision-making process? Do you need somebody on the line right now, or can you have this conversation with me? I barely asked that question, but I can identify with experience now, uh, on the phone through their tone of voice if they hesitate, uh, when I have to ask that question. It's like a tool. Yeah, you know, you bring it up if necessary. Then after that, you come with the main emotional question, which is, John, uh, I mean, all veterans have a purpose for this. What would be kind of like your main purpose for getting life insurance at your age? Again, he starts explaining why. Then after that, I bring them from very emotional to projecting how it will look like if he can resolve that problem. So the gap, the gap in their mind that they, if they don't do anything about it, they will be screwed. So John, I know how important this is for you now, but I mean, how will that make you feel if you're able to find something that's affordable and protect your family? How will that make you feel that if you die tomorrow, everything that you wanted, it played out pretty well with the life insurance company? How would that make you feel? Oh, make me feel great. You know, they'll start explaining a little bit more, and then I go, well, We gotta, we gotta also explore human failure. Like, you know, people procrastinate. You might procrastinate too. We gotta be upfront. I mean, what happens if you don't do anything about this like most people and you die sooner than you thought? What happens, uh, what happens at that point, John? Well, and we start having a conversation around what happens and we compare both Scenarios. I'm not trying to like, oh, this is a salesy technique. No, it's to build the urgency in their mind to make sure that they stop procrastinating, because that's what they do. They procrastinate. Most people do that.

So the way you just bring it up, you just put it on the table, you just lay it out there. Most people procrastinate. What? Yeah, dude, I love it.

And then before the he says it, you also say, well, what happens if Martha gets crazy? She says, I don't want no life insurance. What if she says that? Oh no, no, no, no, I'm gonna go ahead with it, man. This is important. So your goal as a sales professional, especially in life insurance, is to gain data, have a logic conversation first minute or two, then get emotionally— because when you get them emotionally high, what goes after that? After the consequence question of what happens if you don't do anything about it? The numbers, the price. It's a larger conversation, so you got to get them emotional high so when they go through the logic, the emotional overrides the logic. Yeah, and they pick an option, but the sale is made before the numbers. The sale is made when you project the, the pain or the future pain if they don't do anything about it. That's when the sale is made, in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree, dude. It's, it's so many people don't know they're making a sale until they pick a price, and I'm like, you missed majorly. If you're showing pricing and you're not like really confident that they're picking something— and a lot of people try, as you know, but for those watching, a lot of the mistake a lot of y'all are making, or your agents if you're— if you have a team, a lot of mistakes they're making are they try to ask questions like this after they're told no, or after they're told they want to think about it. It becomes like a— you sound like a schmuck salesperson, like begging after you're told no. It just doesn't come across the same. And all you're doing is you're having the client sell you on why you should even show pricing.

Exactly.

It's not that deep.

And sometimes they sound— they sound scripted. Like, another thing I'll say to new agents and seasoned agents, I recorded myself. English is my second language. I wanted to make sure at least they understand what I'm saying. But then I was able to listen I was kind of fast in the beginning, and that's why they hung up on me because I sounded like a telemarketer. What if you bring it down and you slow it down? You see? So record yourself if you are— you're trying to get better. But don't do that during game time. Do not make that mistake. Do that in the night or before business hours.

Yeah, it's wild to me, dude, how many times I ask people to record themselves and they just won't. It blows my mind.

I'm like, only have one agent, right?

And I'll—

I'll—

dude, I'll go through it with you, and it's wild. But I did the same, dude. I— back in the day, man, I went to— I'll never forget, I'm significantly older than you, bro. And, uh, when I first started, I went to RadioShack and bought like a— like a— like a recorder, like with a cassette thing in it.

Yeah, I know RadioShack.

Yeah, I'd hook it up to my phone back in the day, hook it up. It'd be like the wired plug-in, and I would record calls, man. I'd go back and play the little cassette over and over again. But yep, I learned a ton, dude. I didn't need to know what I was doing, but I would hear myself and I'm like, oh my God, no wonder they hung up on— that was trash.

Exactly. That's the best way to, uh, to identify what's going on. And it's usually at the beginning of the call, your first 7 to 12 seconds. Yeah, you know, it's not like the end.

Yeah. What do you think people mess up at the beginning, in your opinion?

Pacing, tonality. Yeah, pacing and tonality. And for those using the benefit center, that shit don't work anymore. Why not?

Explain it.

Because like, there's so much, I don't know, prospects that are aware of that nowadays. Like, benefit center, I heard that before, man. And I've had like 11 people tell me that already, like different agents from different divisions. Yeah, they're like, nah, I don't know, it don't work in this area anymore, bro. Yeah, it might work.

That was money when it first came out.

Yeah, it was, it was. But now, I mean, you're saying that your name— this is just John, uh, don't even say where you're calling from. You say, hey, just calling you back, uh, because of the possible life insurance you were interested in. Is that what you're still looking for or not? And then if it's an old lead, is what I do for older leads, um, let's say it's like 3 months or 8 months old, don't matter. If it's more than like 90 days, it's a no lead for me. Uh, and I'll call them just a little bit different. I'll say, hey John, this is just Melvin, and, uh, I just have some time, uh, to look in between files here. I see that, uh, you were possibly interested in the life insurance, um, for veterans. Is that what you're still looking for? I mean, did you give up on that, or, or what happened? Did you give up on that, or what happened? It's been a long time since you and I have talked. Did you give up on that, or what happened? No, no, I didn't give up on that. Or yes, I don't, I don't care, just let me know if it's a yes or no. At that point, that's how I go about it for, uh, older leads. But most people screw up with tonality and pacing and use some body language, like be human. Most of the time sales agencies in general say over the phone, so, you know, use your phone, use your body language, use your Tonal and pacing, you'll do better.

I had someone ask last week, I want to hear your answer on it, how you know, like, do I one-call close and try to go through it now? Do I schedule something for later? Like, how do you, how do you figure out if you're going forward or if you deal with it later? What's the, what's the key for you there?

So depending on the lead type, if it's an IUL, most of the time they are working, so they can't talk to you at the moment. You ask them a qualifying question. You qualify them on the spot. I qualify them 2 times, uh, in the beginning and before, uh, I go over the numbers. So number 1 qualifying question is, uh, is this call usually taking about 15 to 20 minutes to go over? Do you have that time for me right now, or should we— it'll be more appropriate to schedule a call later today? Not tomorrow, later today, in a couple hours. Um, I have a 5 PM available. Will that work for you? I'm not doing the option close like, I got a 5 or 6. No, no, 5 PM. If not, I'll give you my number. You call me around 6. I'm still gonna call you later, but I'm not gonna make it seem like it's an option close. Like, it's so salesy nowadays. They know what you're trying to do. Yeah, so, uh, qualifying question. And then before the numbers, you can ask, uh, John, and I mean Sounds like time to make a change, right? Most of them say yes. Another qualifying question you could ask: how important is it for you to change your situation from where you are now with no life insurance, no financial security, nothing at all, from where you should be? How important is that for you? Then you go over the numbers.

Yeah, I love it. Is it any different with seniors? You mentioned IUL there. Is it any different for you with seniors? I mean, final expense, vet leads, whatever?

With seniors, call to close, really not. They usually got the TV on. You just gotta tell them to shut the TV off. That pisses me off. They be talking to me like, hey sir, with all due respect, can you shut that TV off? I can't hear you. And I got 30% disability from the military. I was field artillery. Come on. They start laughing. They turn the TV up. But if you're looking to call to close, you should call to close in between appointments. After, like, if you get a no-show, don't wait until your next appointment. Call to close.

Yeah.

And then how do you determine if it's a call to close or not? Well, you ask them a qualifying question. Like I said, do you have 15-20 minutes for me right now? If it's an IUL, if it's a vet lead, or final expense, or mortgage protection, I'll just go for it and get them emotionally involved. And as soon as you get them emotionally involved and you ask the qualifying question, listen to how they answer that question. How important is it for you to change situation? From where you are, where you are now to where it should be? If the answer is kind of like hesitating or they don't answer it fully, schedule the call for later today because they're not 100% focused on what you're trying to say. They might, they might be working, they might be doing something, but they'll tell you. As long as you're focused on having a high-quality dialogue between you and the client, you will determine if it should be a call to close now or should be a call later today. You gotta listen.

This is not deep, dude. This is so good. I love that it's like so simple. There's nothing like— and not, not to sound mean, it's— there's nothing complicated about what you're saying. It's just insanely intentional. Yeah, you know, and it's on purpose.

You know, when, when, when somebody's kind of busy, when you talk to— let's say you call your, your, your, uh, your family member or your wife, you, you can tell when somebody is not paying attention to you, 100%. So you get better over time.

Yeah, amen, bro. It's, uh, reps and, uh, paying attention. You know, so many people put out there and then they don't pay attention, they go say the same thing wrong on the next one. It's like, it ain't working. Yeah, tweak something. And granted, to be clear, you still get hung up on and told no, you can't. Like, no, that shit goes away, you know what I mean? You said it earlier. I think some people get confused because they're like, what leads does he— that's the most messages I'll get. What leads does he get, dude? It's really not that important.

It don't matter if the lead is super cheap, then guess what? You're going to be on the phones the whole day. If the leads is high quality, well, you might get more pickups than the cheaper leads, but you still got to do the same work, you know?

I love it. I love it.

Yeah. Then another thing that I will—

no, no, go please.

One thing to answer that question you were saying earlier, but that's not part of that sales process on what most agents need to pay attention to. After they agree on the, on the product, uh, whatever option you chose, they chose, don't go straight for, for the app. Make sure you— this is how I do it. I tell them, I don't send them like, here's my credentials so you can trust That's too, that's too, um, too gullible, too like, uh, yeah, I just sell you right there. I say like this, I say, John, I'm gonna send you a quick text, um, and that's gonna have my information as your agent because in case you move out of your house, I don't know what's going to happen down the road, but in case you move out or you want to add a beneficiary or add more coverage down the road, you can call me directly, we'll take care of it. I have you here on my portal. You're on my, on my customer portal, and I'll take care of it. That's way better, in my opinion, than saying, here's my credentials so you, so you can trust me and I'm— you can verify.

Yeah, I agree.

I do that, and then I go for the app. And then how I get the immediate draft technique, I have 3 trials before I post anything. So let's say we get to the backing, I got the information, and the way I do that is, um, John, I'm gonna explain you how this process works. Basically, I'm gonna ask you a few yes or no questions about your health one more time, but these are the knockout ones, okay? These are knockout ones. Depending on how you answer, you could be eligible, you could get declined. If you are eligible, we'll proceed with your beneficiary's full legal name, phone number, and date of birth in case something does happen to you. Make sense, right? After that, we're going to put in your bank or credit union account and routing number. That way it stays on autopay. Nobody misses a payment, everything is streamlined, nobody had to have to worry about anything else. Makes sense? Makes sense, right? So once I get to the beneficiary, um, situation, I go ahead and say, and what was the bank that you, uh, wanted to use again? Wells Fargo, whatever. Okay. And they get the bank information, write an account number. And then this one, this is the immediate draft technique, trial number 1. And, uh, after they give me the information John, um, the carrier, it usually takes about 1 to 3 business days for them to process everything we did today and do that first draft so you can get covered. Is that going to be a problem, John? Is that going to be a problem? Most of them say no.

I love it.

It's easier to say no. So, oh yeah, it's not like a sales tactic, whatever, but the way you word it is— the way you word it, it's not going to be a problem.

Is it okay if I draft today, right? Yeah, right.

Is it going to be a problem? No. And I learned that after that situation, the first 3 months in the business, they are expecting to pay today.

Correct.

They are sold before the pricing. They're sold that they need it before the pricing. So once you go through pricing, they got to pick something that they can— they got money for today. So that's my mentality there. And 99% of the clients I get, they, they have no problem with getting drafted. In, uh, 1 to 3 business days. Now you might have a, a female or male client saying, well, I got the money today. I immediately interrupt them before they say something. I say, well, no problem. I mean, we can do a promise to pay, just like in phone bills. I had to do a promise to pay for Verizon one time because I didn't have the money, so I had to do a promise to pay. So I used that, uh, thing right there and use it for life insurance. Well, we can do a promise to pay for next Friday.

If it—

today's Monday, do it for next Friday. Or if you could do it earlier, we can put it for Wednesday next week. No, no, put it for Friday next week, I'll have the money. Bam, it's postdated, but it's not a month postdated, it's not 30 days. And that's just like a small percentage. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And then I don't know where, like, the less than 1%, uh, retired people, mortgage protection, IEO, doesn't matter. I get people who are on Social Security disability pay to date because they're expecting to make a payment. But those, uh, uh, unique individuals, they come out and say, hey, I, I honestly cannot make a payment until the 3rd or whatever. That's like 1 out of like 30 people. Yeah, that's the 3 trials. Then that's when you post it for 30 days, you know.

I love it.

But 99% is the first trial. It's not going to be a problem if y'all ain't got—

like, I had someone, I saw someone message on online the other day, and they were like, is it possible to make $115 grand in life insurance? And so many people were negative about it, like, it can't be done, it's hard to do, and oh my God. And I'm like— and then they're like, people that do it, it's— there's so many chargebacks, they're not keeping any money. And I'm like, yeah, you probably ain't doing what Mel's doing over here because you're just getting like a half million dollars worth of stuff. Is the talk time thing yours?

I mean, talk time is a huge—

yeah, I thought I saw that on yours because I'm a big numbers, like 60-second phone call, 60 an hour, 10 to 600, like I do it that way. But when I— and I get people to look at it by minutes, yeah, the way you word it, I saw that on your social and I'm like, dude, I wish I'd like— I wish I worded it that way many times.

So yeah, when I help people set goals, and because I had systems in place that would allow me to have complete visibility to their activity. I could see what we would do is I would look at maybe a 2-month or a 3-month period, or even if they were brand new, I could look at maybe 3 weeks of activity. And we could say, okay, right now, based on the amount of talk time you have and the amount of sales you've done, it's going to take you 6 hours of talk time to do 1 sale.

Yeah.

Or it'll take you 2 hours of talk time to do 1 sale, because the numbers don't lie. And you can build out a whole business model based on what you've— what you're doing. So I'll have people say, well, I want to sell 3 or 4 deals a day, right? That's, that's pretty common. Uh, or I want to at least sell 2 deals a day, or I want to sell one, whatever it is. Perfect. Let's go see what you're currently doing. So I'll pull it up and I'll have people that it'll take them 5 hours of talk time to get one sale. So I'll ask them, so John, if you want to do 3 deals a day, how many hours of talk time do you have to do per day to get 3 sales?

Yeah.

You know, so are your goals realistic, or maybe do we need to take a look at your calls and your sales process? Because if— unless we can shrink your talk time to sales ratio, you will not get there.

Yeah. Yeah. I love the, the phrasing. I always would go like One call on average takes a minute because most don't pick up. So if we go— I did 200 dials, I'm like, all right, 60, 120, 180, you're like 3 and a half hours talking to people. But I like the talk time things. I've always tried to get people to understand, like, if there were a timer going— and you're literally doing that, you're literally using that. I worked in a call center before and they tracked ours, you know, and I just— I like the shift, the way people look at it. If you're if you're not tracking your actual conversation time. That's a big—

Typically for an 8-hour day, if you're working a full 8-hour day, and this is also to track your, you know, if you're really being productive in the time that you're working, 'cause a lot of people, especially in telesales, they'll make a few calls and then they'll take a break, right? And then they'll come back, they'll make some more calls, they'll have a bad conversation, and then they spend 30 minutes overanalyzing what they did, or, and then they'll make another few calls and then they'll go have lunch. And then, because I had direct visibility to this, we'd call that wrap-up time, which is the time between calls when they're overanalyzing or going to do whatever, God knows what. I mean, you could have someone who's working 8 hours and 4 of those hours is spent doing nothing. And so it's— and a lot of people would be like, wow, I didn't realize that it added up to so much. So people think, I'm working 10 hours a day. I'm not doing anything. Well, unless you really take a peek behind the curtain and see what they're actually doing, it's the ones that would have their day structured that I'm not leaving my desk from this time to this time. Like they treat it like a job. I'm going to take lunch at this time. I'm going to come back and do this time. You could have an 8-hour day and have 6 hours of talk time if you're doing it correctly. And then with 6 hours of talk time, if you're a good rep, You could have one sale for every 2 hours of talk time. That's how you get 3 sales a day.

Yeah, I love it. I've always asked when people are like, I dialed all day and didn't have any, I got beat up, whatever. I'm like, I started asking if they, if they actually dialed all day or they just take all day to dial. And it became two very different things for me. You know, I mean, I took 8 hours to make 62 calls.

Yes, same language, same thing, because they just keep getting up. That, that is, those are the people that let their day control them. Where they're just, well, I'm just gonna see who picks up today and whatever happens happens, as opposed to you controlling your day and deciding these are the metrics I have to hit if I want to see success. And so that's really how I ran the team, was making sure they understood you have complete control of your day and your activity. You can't let your day just happen to you.

Love it. What advice can you give if they're like, all right, I'm in, I'm doing the activity, I'm getting people to pick up, but I just can't convert them. I just can't, you know what I mean? They all tell me no. They all— and/or I've seen people struggle hard, good in the field, can't figure out telesales. So whichever angle you want to take, just how do we get them good at the same time?

They're both two totally different topics. Um, but A, you know, the first one, there's only, there's only so many mistakes you can make before you continue. See, continuing to make the same mistake is actually sometimes reinforcing that mistake. And it's harder to figure out what to do next or try something different every time because then you don't know what works. So you either need to invest in a coach, in my opinion, you need to either, you have to either invest in a coach that can help you identify where you're going wrong by listening to your calls with you, or you need to contract with someone like me who has that hands-on approach where I could listen to your calls with you and say, did you hear that? Did you see, did you hear that hesitation? Did you, why did you deliver it in that way? Because sometimes you always can't recognize things without having an expert do it with you, which is why everybody needs a coach. So from field to telesales, I really think that the key to expedite that learning process is to find a way to have someone coach you and help you get better right away.

Makes a huge difference. Um, you know, I've always had any agent that's negative about the results record themselves. I'm like, hey, just record a few calls, send them to me. And I'm all about live coaching too, but especially when it's— they've been here a year, 6 months, whatever, and they just like, hey, I finally need help. I like to get them to record it. And even if they don't know what they're doing, I found when they listen to it they discover they ain't quite saying what they thought they were saying.

Yes, and that's what I mean by listening to their calls, getting their recorded calls.

Yep. And then, then me going through it with them, uh, that's— I mean, that's, that's— it's funny, I see a lot of people try to build an agency and they skip that part.

Oh, it's so critical.

Just read the script, just watch this video, just—

and I'm like, ah, but you, you can give 100 agents the same script and they'll all deliver it differently.

Agreed. I've always said I could watch you make 100 phone calls in a row and not one time will it be exactly the same. If you played it over each other, it'd be same concept, same structure, but like you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna sway a little just based on the personality you're dealing with.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna challenge you on that just a little bit because I had an agent who worked on my team a couple of years ago who, and who decided to shift into a different industry altogether, but he was really tech savvy. And one of the things that he did, and I wonder if I could find it because I bet I still have it, he took 3 of my sales calls.

Yep.

And he layered them in some software on top of each other.

Yeah.

And it was almost identical.

Yeah, it should.

Like, it's crazy how you just turn it on and it's just like, let's just pull the string and I'm just gonna spit out the same thing. Because in general, it is rinse and repeat once you've mastered Sure.

Yeah, yeah, you learn to know your approach and have your questions, your intentional questions that work better than others over time. You go like, oh, if I word it this way, I get a little different reaction than if I word it that way. You learn those intricacies. Can you give a couple examples of things that like you've learned to say or ask on the phone to keep people on longer, which is most people's struggle at the beginning?

So we're talking like objections in the first 30 seconds?

Yeah, sure. Like Yeah, I think the initial approach to— here's what I hear a lot is like people can't figure out how to do the— especially the mad— what do you call it? Like, uh, I don't know, the one-call close that they can't figure out how to master, you know what I mean? Just getting someone on the phone and figuring out how to do business on the phone. I see so many agents struggle with it.

Okay, well, take a step back for a second.

Sure.

Because this is this is also a mindset game where, where your intentions are is how it's going to be delivered. And when I'm on the phone with someone, my intention is to try to help them understand. And if I can help them understand and make them feel safe, right, create that environment where they feel safe, then the next step is to help them change their situation. Right, to get them from where they currently are to where they want to be. And this is a lot of stuff that I learned through taking NEPQ. Yeah. And because all sales is, is change. And the number one thing that human beings hate to do is change. And so if your expectation for your call is to get a sale, then you're missing the whole point of the sales process. The expectation when I get on the call is to help someone feel good about changing their situation. And it's the sales approach where I say a lot of— and this is very different, like, I think that my approach is sometimes different than other people's. I'll tell people, no matter what you decide today, I just want to make sure that you understand it so that whenever you're ready to make a decision, you have all the information to do so. So that's what I call dropping the rope. Because if I do the opposite that most people do, which is trying to make sure that they're the decision maker and, you know, is there any reason why you wouldn't want to do this today? To me, even though there's value to some of that, to me, that just increases that sales resistance. You have to have more of those conversations and it turns into more of a numbers game.

Makes sense.

If you go into it with, no matter what you do, I'm here to help, people tend to lean into that more. You have better quality conversations. People trust you because at the end of the day, we're going to be asking people to hand over the things that the seniors are telling us to never give. Don't ever give your Social, don't ever give your bank account. And so if I need to ask for that information at the end, I need I need to create a place where they feel comfortable giving that to me. And it's not about qualifying, it's about making the decision to change their situation and protect their family. And so I have a very different approach than, than, um, I think some people do.

It's less of the assumptive going for it, and it's more of like you're going to educate them.

And you get something wrong with the assumptive approach either, right? It's just, it's just different.

Okay, what I've learned about this game is like a lot of things work, you know. It's, it's the ones that do it consistently and intentionally over a long period of time that tend to be the ones that stick around and make, make a good living from it.

And here's really where I had an aha moment, um, at the end of last year, where it kind of, where it kind of changed, like good approach, bad approach, like one way versus the other way is the right way or the wrong way. The common theme behind everybody who's successful regardless of their approach is that they have good communication skills.

Yeah. Yeah.

And if you can just be a good communicator, a good listener, you have empathy, and you are knowledgeable about what you're doing, you just have to find something, a sales process that speaks to you that makes sense. But too many people do all their communication like this. And then they get on the phone with someone and they don't even know how to talk.

Yeah.

Right. And underneath all of that is— that's the problem that I'm finding is what we're really dealing with is just a fundamental lack of communication skills.

Just basic-ass communication.

Really, right? I mean, if you really think about it, it's, it's not about like the MQ approach or the assumptive approach. Like, we just got to get these people, you know, out of their own way and complete a sentence without stuttering.

It's funny. So what do you think about field sales to telesales? Because I've always see— I've, I've noticed a lot of people over the years— I've had my license 14 years— I've seen a lot of people not be able to complete a sentence, make a lot of money in the field.

Okay.

And then they go to telesales and it's like, go back to the field, bro.

Go back. So in fairness, right, I've never knocked the door the other way too. So yeah, I've never knocked a door, no, nor do I really ever want to, although I think that would be a fun, uh, content, uh, video if I ever wanted to film myself in the field. Thought about it.

I'll come record it.

Yeah, for sure. I would for sure find a way to record it. Um, but the thing about telesales is it's harder. Yeah, it's hard, and it's harder because the only thing we have is our voice. We don't, we don't have a presenting ourselves. We don't have some beautiful marketing materials. We're not wearing a badge. Like, we can text things over and we can send someone to a website, but it's, it's more difficult unless, you know, you decide you want to do virtual sales over maybe some sort of Zoom platform. But if you're selling final expense not mortgage protection or annuities or IULs. The final expense market, which is where I'm going to continue to initially transition anyways, that's really hard. Like, a lot of them don't even have an email address.

True, that's true. So aside from the initial thing you mentioned, like the approach, the mindset going towards the leads, what do you see as the most common mistakes that you can fix for agents once they approach it the right way and they're on the phone? It's like, kind of, what advice can you give people on the things they probably need to change to make more sales? And you just said after they've mastered the activity, meaning, yeah, let's assume they got a decent amount of activity, right? And now they understand the approach you mentioned a few minutes ago, right? All right, I got to go into this thing differently. They're like, oh, I like that style better, I'm going to approach it that way. It's like, all right, now what?

Yeah, so at that point is, is where it starts to get fun, because once you've mastered the activity and you're having conversations— because that's the hardest part, is just getting in the activity and having the conversations— and once you've mastered that, then it's just about figuring out where you're, where you're going wrong. And, and I, I don't know how to fix it on your own if you're not going to have someone help you do it. That is why I invested myself into a coaching system. So I'm a believer in coaching. You know, you have a coaching program, sure, you know, and people are investing with you because you've already made the mistakes, you've already figured it out, you already have the keys to the kingdom. And so in order to be more productive and sell more, I think you just need to be coached.

Yeah. What are some common ones that you see over and over again? Just working with as many agents as you have, some commonalities that they do wrong, you think?

They, they quote too quickly.

Okay, let's talk about that.

I, I—

this is one of my favorite topics. Is it? I gave out 8 quotes today and didn't sell anything.

The faster, the faster money comes out of your mouth, the higher the chances you'll get an objection because you've created no emotional attachment, you've created no sense of urgency again to want to make that change. So the money, the decision already has to be made to make a change before you give a quote. The quote and the money itself is not what's going to make the decision except for the laydowns. And the laydowns were already gonna buy anyways. And so the mistake becomes, well, I gave a quote and I got a sale. And so, right? And so then they wanna duplicate and rinse and repeat that. And so what I see is after I get somebody trained and up and running, they do really well at first because they're following the process. And then what happens is they take a dip and they call that a sales slump. I don't believe in sales slumps. Sales slumps are created because you stop doing what worked in the first place by taking shortcuts. And those shortcuts may have led to some sales and then you're reinforcing bad habits. Which you take into your future calls. And then what happens is these presentations are taking too long. I don't want to have to— I want to sell more in less time. And so they cut things out and they ask health questions too soon. They give quotes right away and they get all these— they have just a graveyard of follow-ups. Why does that happen? You listen to the calls and they're taking shortcuts. And so quoting too soon and not going through the sales process is the number one thing that I see why they are, you know, stop selling or aren't selling enough.

Yeah, I agree. It's, um, it's, it's an interesting thing to get people to recognize where the sale was made. Like, actually, you know what I mean? It's intriguing. It's wild to teach people to recognize that and how to, you know, I mean, it's, it can be tough.

You can feel it too once you've really mastered it. Yeah, you know. Okay. This is definitely someone that's— it's— and at that point, it doesn't even become, um, if, it just becomes how much.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. What are you looking for, dude, in people now? I know we talked recruiting and scaling yesterday, so I'm intrigued to know who— like, when you're looking to identify someone to work with you, what are you looking for?

Yeah, so, yeah, number, number one, um, is, is no complaining.

Like, That's my favorite rule.

First and foremost is like, don't complain. And then second, whenever I hire, you know, aside from, you know, commission only and, you know, um, you know, it's, it's, you know, eat what you kill, that, that type thing. Yeah, yeah, it's, hey, are you— Will, are you the type of person that, let's say you, you show up to the office on a Thursday and you make 800 dials and talk to like 2 people are you the type of guy or girl that's going to show up the next day ready to rip another $800, or are you going to start blaming the system, the leads? Yeah, maybe, maybe blame yourself, which is even worse, like lose confidence. Like, we have this— it won't work if, if you're that type of person. So, so I'm looking for the people that are willing to— like, basically they're signing up to like, know, like, I'm about to get 'You know, my teeth kicked in.' I want that person.

Yeah.

Rather than the 'Wow, this sounds great, this sounds easy,' because those people always fail, right? Like, 'This sounds easy, I'm gonna crush it.' Every person that tells me, 'Oh, I'm gonna be your top salesperson,' I know in like 2 months you're gonna— yeah, you're out, right?

So I don't even like talking to that. After they say that, I'm like, 'I quit. Can I quit now?

Can I be out?

I don't—

I don't want to work with you.' Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, how do you go about— because the reality is, and I tell people all this, which I like the way you do the questioning. Like, I, I, I do something similar in the sense that I go like, hey, if the first week, if you, you know, spend $1,000 and 57 people tell you to fuck off this week, how are you going to handle it? So super similar, right? I like asking the way they— how they're going to handle that, right? Now I've learned you're smart in sales, you ask the right questions, people appease you. They're like, yeah, I'm in, I'm that guy. So now how do you, how do you, how do you dissect, like, are they doing what it takes? Who do you pour into more? How do you back it? Like, how do you handle it now? Like, what are you looking for?

Yeah.

And, and we, we've learned the hard way that, amen, you don't— if you don't set expectations up front, like, this thing could go a thousand different directions for a guy. So we're super adamant at the beginning, like day one onboarding, we're kind of like traditional. They come to the office, 2 hours of like me just, here's how it works, here's the expectations. Um, so, so the biggest thing is I tell them, I'm like, we will match your energy. So, um, if you're the person that's coming in and, you know, 300 dials a day is our minimum, if you're the person that hits 300 dials every single day we see you as like just the— you're just, you're just collecting and shit. Like, you're just, you know, clocking in, clocking out. Like, it's the same concept. So we won't spend extra time and effort with you, as opposed to, you know, a guy like, like Blaze. He's been with me for like 7 months. Coolest name ever, Blaze. Dude, he did like— he's willing to do like, within his first couple weeks, he was doing like 800 to 1,200 dials every single day, um, while he was going through it. And so I immediately— and I'll tell the whole group, I'm like, hey, shout out to Blaze, he did this amount, he set the record in our office for the most dials in a day. And then they just see that, they just see— I don't have to tell them, they just see that I'm now spending more time. Yeah, I'll answer his calls first. I'll, uh, you know, if he recruits a guy, I'll take them and make sure that they're good, versus the guy that's like kind of half-ass in and out.

Yeah, so yeah, yeah, well, most people recruit and they're like, I'll be here no matter what, I got you, anything you want to do, I'm your guy, right? I made that mistake too, dude. And it's like, they walk all over you, bro.

The cool part now, I think though, because it was me at first and I had Jesse— Jesse was like my— I was selling a lot, but then like, here's Jesse, crumble cookie to Hall of Fame, like I just sell his story. Um, but now there's about— because there's, there's, I think, uh, in our Slack this morning there was like 71 agents and probably about 45 of them are in the office today.

That's badass.

And so now it's not just me preaching that message. I have about 8 other leaders in the office that are all speaking the same message. And so there's really no way, like, as soon as there's negativity, that person like feels super uncomfortable being there because there's the majority that are all preaching activity, attitude, all those things. Like, don't complain, it's not— it's never the leads, it's you. Like, we're all preaching the same message, so like everyone's aligned and everybody can move forward, and there's really no room for that, like, you know, those time wasters that I struggled with at the beginning.

You know, I was watching a video the other day, a clip of like, uh, the Patriots when they were in the Super Bowl against the Falcons and losing 28-3. Crazy. And, uh, it was like they were mic'd up and they were, they were playing the audio of the Patriots in that moment, and dude, they all thought they could win still.

That's crazy.

You know what I mean? It was like, they're— the way they were speaking, the way they were getting each other excited and motivating each other. And that's how I picture your office. Yeah, everyone feels like they can win. Yep. Even when maybe in the moment they might be getting, as people say, my teeth kicked in, or whatever, whatever verbiage we use to be dramatic. Yeah, you know, but as an overall dude, the level of confidence when you have that many people in an air— in a room doing it, this— that's hard to replicate, bro.

Right.

Yeah. Um, have you— how long have you had the physical office?

Uh, this whole year. So we were fortunate Zach had an office that we kind of, you know, Zach took over that one.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah, we took that over after Wiley and his team moved. And then in December, we opened up our— you know, me and Easton opened up a 10,000 square foot office. So we can, we can fit about 2— it'd be tight, but about 200 agents in here.

Um, is that in the warehouse thing? Oh, he called me. Like, did you not get that one? Is that different?

Warehouse is version 2. Well, next step is—

you know what I'm talking about? I think he called me. Yeah, yeah, okay. Hell yeah, I forgot. It just clicked right now. I'm like, oh, I remember him calling me about this thing.

Yep, yep. That's, that's what we've been scheming up. Like, our, our vision is to have like a warehouse compound where like, I, you know, I want to get to 1,000 agents locally, which is a big task. But like, I have this vision. Have you ever seen the First Form? You know, you know the brand First Form with Anthony Frisella?

Yeah, hell yeah, dude. That's 75 Hard.

Yeah, you ever seen their— of course, yeah, you're big on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're headquarters. Yes, that's like—

that's what you want.

That's the vision. That's the dream.

You get that one room with all the cars loaded up. When you do a podcast, they're all behind you.

Like, yeah, everything.

The basketball court.

Like the, the dial room, the, you know, little cat— like we want the compound where people can come in, sell insurance, and it's like a lifestyle. People will want to stay. Like, that's one thing we have here, like people want to stay at the office just because now they're friends with their, their colleagues. There's a gym here, there's a, you know, restaurant downstairs. Like, so we're, we're close, but like next time, you know, a couple years— I love it.

I love the vision. How big is the warehouse space y'all want?

You know, I mean, at least, at least $30,000.

Yeah, yeah, it's possible, dude. I know people that do it. It's definitely possible. Yeah, um, it's exciting. I love it. It's funny watching some people like still try to run their whole agency with everyone at home. Yeah, and I don't really understand it fully. And I know you had some limit— limited thoughts on it when we talked, kind of.

You know, remotely.

But it's like, you, you understand the power of the office, right? You know, in creating culture. Um, I assume that's helped you see a big uptick in sales.

Yeah. Oh, tremendously. And, and I, I took a bunch of risk like early last year because I had hired people over the first 2 years and they just wouldn't stick, whether it was, you know, the buying leads part or they've never done commission only. Uh, the consistency with hours, which like I took directly from you, like, you know, are you, are you at the office all day dialing, or are you dialing all day at the office? Like, most people are just at the office all day dialing, right?

True, 100%. Or, or at the office all day not dialing, or not, for most of you watching.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, to fix that, I was like, I can sell. More importantly, I can train. And then I have so many old leads, like, let me, let me just help all our new agents. I'll give them the lead so that they can get their feet under them. And so I took a big, you know, risk early last year where, you know, we basically like, like 8 AM script training every day at our office. So it's like clocking in at 8 every single day. And then the standard is 6 PM, and a lot of guys will stay till 7 or 8, but like the standard is 8 to 6. So like your message, like that's like implanted in my brain because your message early on is what, you know, helped me. Like just pretend, like we always say like we want to get away from the 9 to 5 insurance, but it's like, dude, we've incorporated the, you know, 9 to 6, and it's It's, you know, whatever that number is, 300% our business last year.

Yeah, that's fire, dude.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, one of my least favorite, um, things people say is, I wish that guy had more of an entrepreneurial mindset, right? And I'm like, nah, dude, I wish he had an employee mindset and would just work all day.

Totally.

Yeah, I mean, I've always, I've always wanted people to think like, you know, a few of us are going to think that way naturally, but I certainly don't wish the everyday agent thought that way. That's— I think that's the problem, right? They have that and they're like, yeah, I'm, I'm an entrepreneur, I can stay home, I cannot do anything, I can just wait for it to come to me, right?

You know how, like, I don't know if you felt the same, but like over the last 10 years the word entrepreneur has been like kind of like a buzzword. Like, 100%, I think GaryVee talks about it like like, he does, like, cool. But now it's— my wife always jokes, like, she, uh, she used to watch the— or she still does— The Bachelor, right? And so you know how, like, you know, Tom Johnson from, you know, Texas, uh, job entrepreneur, she used to say, oh, he must, he must not have a job.

It's true, it's so true.

I think, I think that that entrepreneur buzzword. When people say, I want to be an entrepreneur, they like what maybe entrepreneurship could give them with like the flexible schedule, but they, they don't really realize like, no, true entrepreneurship— I think, uh, I think Ronnie Salem always says this, um, he's, he's in our group, you know, under Zach. I think he's always like, I traded a 9-to-5 for a 24/7. So like entrepreneurship, just so spot on, dude. Like, other than sleeping, I am like you know, eat, sleep, drink insurance for, you know, it's been that way for the last like 3 years.

So yeah, someone asked me recently like how that— how I make that go away. I'm like, huh? I don't want that to go away, to be clear. I like always. Yeah, um, if I shut off, dude, I'd be like I don't know, I would feel broken.

Yeah, 2 days of like— like if I take a Saturday and Sunday off, I get super stressed and antsy, like what the hell am I doing, you know?

I think people misunderstand it too because I spend time with my family.

Totally.

I don't know how to spend time with my family and never think about my business.

I—

that to me, it's like— it's like spending time at business and not thinking about my family ever. I think about them while I'm doing this, and I think about this while I'm doing with them. It's weird to me that people can turn one or the other off totally.

Right.

Yeah.