How to Make Millions in Insurance ft. Cody Askins (Insurance Insiders Ep1)

And here's what I believe, dude. There's people printing money at every company.

Oh, 100%.

There's someone rich at every established company out there, and hell, plenty of ones that are not established.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, what up, y'all? John Wetmore here. Welcome to the Insurance Insiders Podcast with my dude Cody Askins. Appreciate you getting on, bro.

And, uh, thank you.

Yeah, you got it, man. As I told you, I've live. I didn't really tell you, I told people, and you were there to hear. I, um, I was like, you know what, you've been— you've inspired me in a lot of ways in the business. That's why I reached out to you. I kind of like your, your thought process of, of just adding to the industry where you can. And I'm like, bro, I need to— I need to do this. We're, we're different in different ways, we're the same in many ways. And I'm like, you know, I need to add some value to the industry more. That's why I reached out to you a few years ago. And then I'm like, who better to have on the first one than Cody?

You know, dude, that— thanks, man. Yeah, that means a lot. I can tell you this, um, people love when we are together, and I get a lot of amazing feedback when I have you involved in anything we do. Um, I know you've had a ton of success, you know, you don't have to do anything you do, especially with us. And so I'm grateful for any time we get to spend together, anything we do together, any stages you speak on, you know, etc. Um, so that's not lost on me. And two, uh, I just enjoy— dude, like you said, I just enjoy giving. And I got a message— I got 2 or 3 messages last night. One actually, somebody actually wrote on a card this long and brought it to me. I'm talking like hundreds of words. And by the end, I'm just like literally getting emotional because at the end of the day, I'm not the most qualified to help our industry by any means. I'm not, I'm not. But, but along the way, I'm like, freak, dude, somebody's got to do it. So I'm like, yeah, okay, why not?

Why not? You know, I love, dude, that you own that, you know, because it's like you haven't built the agency, and you don't say you do, you know what I'm saying? It's like, but there's no one, there's no one in the industry who does what you're doing and has the following and has the connections that you do. Like, as people— as much as people might be mad at you, which they are, it is what it is.

All of us get that. Yep.

You know, I think, dude, it's respect— respectful as shit, the, the, the, the size you've built it to. And it's, it's pretty cool. And, and some people complain about it. I'm like, I mean, he has done it, you know what I mean? Like, who has that many subscribers? And it just is what it is.

Yeah, I thank you. I at least, um, you know, at least sold. I never wanted to Yeah, build my own agency and recruit the world, right? And so I, I do try to own that. Um, and it's funny you say that about that, like, it's interesting how— and I go through this too, so I get it— like, um, there's different moments where it's so easy to be jealous or have an ego or let stuff get in the way. Um, I don't love living like that just because I end up, you know, I'm like, dude, I just, I need to be more grateful and happy overall, even though that's very hard in what we do. Um, and it was funny because you said that, like, literally I had a dinner a couple nights ago. I got 3 or 4 messages within an hour about, hey dude, like, I, I'm, I'm pissed off that this person's like attacking you in this Facebook group. Like, 3 or 4 messages, and I'm sitting at dinner like 2 nights ago, and I'm like, dude, I don't care. Thank you, love you, you know, feel free to stick up for me if you want. If you don't want to, great. If you do, great. Um, but at the end of the day, I think people need to look at someone's intentions. Like, do I want to make some money? Yeah. Don't want to build a gigantic freaking company? 1,000%. But at the end of the day, dude, as long as people are giving and their heart's in the right place and they truly want to help others— like, I do think from a content standpoint, I do not think anyone has ever helped more agents in an 8-year span than we have. And that's not because we're any good. Dylan's great. Yeah, I've just done it and we've put it out 10,000 times. That's like, dude, you're going to get better at riding the bike, you know? Yeah, you're going to get better at selling insurance. Like, you— I love your story. You weren't good at it originally, which is freaking amazing that you own that. But you know what? He kept freaking picking up the phone. He kept buying leads. He kept doing the thing. And now Dude, he's one of the best to ever do it.

Yeah, which is— you live by the my whole do more concept, you know.

I, I actually say it a lot now.

You do?

I'm like my buddy John. I'm like my buddy John says, dude. And I'm like, you want to get better? Do more. You want to improve? Do more. You want to learn? Do more.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's how it's literally how I came up. But it also means, as you've seen me talk about it, like, actually means more to me. And it was my path. So it's like, and you know, it's, uh, there are certainly a lot of people out there who dislike that too. And they're like, why do more? Why not be better? Why not be more efficient? Why not be smart? Work smarter than harder. And I'm like, I don't know that path. I'm sorry, I can't teach that path because I don't know that one.

Correct.

So it's neat to see, see what you've done. And I'm like Thanks, bro. Shit, I gotta do more.

So, well, that's all I know. Like, like you, man, that's all I know. And you know what, dude, our personalities— and I think a lot of people can relate to this— we are wired in a way that if we don't feel like— like, even this, you're like, I'm gonna add this and do this. I'm like, great. He's like, I want to have you on. I'm like, amazing. We're just wired that if we're not doing something We just feel lazy.

Yeah.

No matter how much success you have received and got, you just feel like there's always another level and you can do more. Like somebody said the other day, I think it was my buddy Dallas who said on stage yesterday, he said, he said, Cody has gotten up and shared how he wakes up feeling like he's never accomplished anything in his life.

Yeah.

And I know you can relate to that because, dude, I, I, I, and I need to work on me so that maybe I don't feel that way one day. Maybe that's not possible, I don't know. But I just know that I wake up like, I, I'm not— I haven't done anything. What the freak am I doing? And I just feel like I'm, I'm in this race and I'm just always behind, or I'm always running too slow, you know?

Yeah, I feel that. Do you feel any negatives from that? Yeah.

I, I don't think it's— I don't think it's always healthy. Um, my wife definitely doesn't think it's healthy because she's like, will you just stop, take a flipping breath, and look around? Like, I got that card that someone walked up to and handed me, handed me, or had multiple people that like come up and give us hugs and pray for us, all this stuff. And, and I'm just like— she's like, will you just shut up and read this? You know? And I'm like I need those moments along the way. But at the end of the day, um, I— good news is for anybody, if you love what you do, you just keep showing up and doing it.

Yeah, I have people say it to me often, dude, and I'm like, I don't know what else I would do with the time. Like, people are like, you're so busy, and I'm like, sure, I'm busy, but yeah, I'm with my kids a lot, I'm home a lot, and I'm— when I'm home, dude, even if I get home at 7, just say even if I go to the gym in the morning, I spend a full day at the office, hell, I can go take a run and still be home by 7. I don't know what to do for 4 hours in my house, you know what I mean? I'm like, there's only so much time. Like, I played cards with Maddox last night. He has this game, uh, something, something 10. Shit, I forget the name of it. He just introduced it to me yesterday.

Face 10?

Yes, Phase 10. Yep. So thank you. I've never played it. He taught me how to play it yesterday. It's like Uno-like-ish, I guess. Yeah. And, uh, we played— we made it to number 9, and I won number 9, and he just threw the cards down. He's like, hey, you win, I'm, I'm like, you can't quit. He's like, I didn't quit, I'm just done. Who cares, you win. And he just walked out. It was like 35 minutes, dude. He was done with me, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, Steph can only handle so much of me, so I'm like, yeah, what do you do?

For sure, for sure. Yeah, that's, uh, that's funny. I think our attention spans as humans are just getting, getting worse and worse, you know what I mean? Like, uh, especially— I can't imagine being a, being a kid now in, in, in this world today. Like, dude, freaking crazy. The good news is Maddox is impressive. He's awesome. He's confident, you know, he exudes energy. He's just a fun, cool kid. Um, and only if there were more kids like Maddox in the world, man. So you and Steph have done an amazing job.

Yeah, he's a, he's a little beast. He like, he frustrates the ever-living hell out of me because he's so much like me.

Yeah.

And so I have to like, I've learned now, which has been hard to not be frustrated by it and appreciate it. Because I'm like, if I, if I weren't the way he's being to me right now— meaning, I'll give you an example. He wants new golf clubs, and I'm like, what do you need new golf clubs for, dude? You just got new golf clubs like 4 months ago. Well, some new kind came out and they're X amount, whatever they cost. And he literally spends every day trying to find a way to convince me to buy new golf clubs. And I have this interesting balance between where I'm like, Yo, I said no, dude. Will you take no for an answer? And yet all day long I'm telling grown-ass adults to stop taking no for an answer.

Correct, dude.

And he calls me out.

Yeah, he uses you against me.

Oh my gosh, dude, all the time. And I— he makes me feel like kind of a hypocrite because I'm like, I'm being impatient and I'm telling him he should settle and I'm telling him— and I'm like All right, you're 12 and you win. Like, you win.

I don't—

so now I have to come up with ways to do it where I give him— I give him like, I'm like, fine, you can have the clubs, but you can't have them today just because we can do it. Here's how you get them. So now I told him if he makes the golf team, which comes up at the end of summer, I'm like, I'll buy you whatever set you want if you make the golf team.

That's awesome.

Yeah, so it like, it gives him a target. It doesn't tell him no. It keeps him off my— and that— then he comes to me the next day, he's like, fine. He goes, well, is there another way? Like, thank you for that way, but is there another way I can do it? I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, I don't— like, if I ask for money for my birthday or Easter or, you know what I mean? And he's always trying to— just because it's all he's around is this.

Yeah.

And successful people.

Yeah, we're always trying to find a you know, a way to improve what we're doing. I think that's amazing. Well, what do you think about too, um, on that note, what do you think about the, the, uh, like, and I think you'll understand what I mean, there's so many— I feel like, um, parents are always telling their kids no, or they're telling them to like stop talking, or, or they're okay with random strangers saying, oh, he's just shy, or like these different things that like We don't— when we grow up, we— the parents probably don't realize what they're doing, or other people don't realize what they're doing. Like, I heard it happen in the elevator yesterday. An old dude's like, oh, she's just shy. And I'm over there thinking, I don't want someone telling my kid they're just shy, you know what I mean? I didn't intervene because it wasn't my kid, but I'm over there thinking like, yeah. So what's your— what's your take on it?

Makes me mental, dude. Here's the thing, dude, I have it internal in the house.

A little bit.

Not a little bit, frequent in the sense that— I'll give you an example with Maddox again. He, um, sometimes like— and Steph does— Steph and her mom don't do this like in a mean way, they just don't— haven't noticed, right? But over time Maddox would be like, I don't know, dude, he'll show up to something and he goes— he goes to a nice private school and whatever, he's around people with money. Yeah, but he'll show— would Like me, I show up in sweats, as you know. I just don't give a rip, dude. Yeah, you know.

Yeah.

And he'll wear like two different color Crocs, shirts that don't match the shorts, and go to something. And sometimes Steph or her mom will be like, the kids are going to make fun of you if you don't wear this outfit, if you don't wear this colored shirt. If you didn't, they'll be like, kids are gonna make fun of you. Or the kid and they would do stuff like that. And I'm like, why, why is that the hook? Why, why is the hook what other people think? So I've had to like internally— and Steph's like, I never thought of it that way. I never— you know what I mean? But just by default, a little bit, he fights that still today to where like if, if we go to a store and like we wanted— he wanted to go to the golf store a couple weeks ago and it closes at like 8, and we were leaving the house at 7. He's like, how much time will we have? Are they gonna say something because we're almost there at closing? Are they gonna— like, he gets a little nervous about it. Or if like a restaurant, someone orders, they send something incorrect, and I have to go like, hey, it's wrong, can you— he wanted french fries and not whatever. He'd be like, no, no, it's okay, Dad, it's okay. It's because of he's worried about what the other people think a little bit.

Yep.

You know, so I, I fight it. It, it's, it makes me mental because I want him to be okay being who he is.

Yes.

You know, with, with respect, but I also got to teach respect. And, you know, I mean, like, sure, like, he's going to a country club dinner tonight, dude. He has to dress up. And it's not because what people think, it's because that's what they require to get in the door. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it's an interesting battle.

Is that the same country club we went to, to like sit some, sip some wine on the back porch? Overlooking.

Yes. Yep.

Yeah, great freaking club too. That's awesome. Such a nice place. Yeah, yeah, uh, yeah, it is funny about, um, I think, I think I forget what it was. Yeah, I think that same club we tried to go to a certain room, but we weren't dressed a certain way, so they wouldn't allow us in. So we went on the patio, right?

Yeah, 100%.

I, I always wonder too. I know we're getting on random stuff, but we're just hanging out here at all. Um, I think people just enjoy the, the banter. Um, I I always wonder too, like, okay, so there's a few things ingrained in me. I don't like sending food back, but Lauren's like, yeah, but it's not right. Um, I don't like parking in front of one business but walking down to a different business, and I'm parked— I'm not supporting the person I'm parking in front of, right? Yeah, there's all these little quirks about me that I still or about what people think, or a certain level of respect. And so it's kind of like, okay, in, in the world we live in, which parts of it is like okay and what's not? Because you do want to be you, you do want to be respectful, but you don't want to worry about what everybody else thinks, and you want to be comfortable in your own skin. So there's so many layers to this that I just probably still overthink today. People would assume that Cody Askins wouldn't care where he parks, Nah, dude, I still do.

Yeah, I think you care a lot about what people think. I think you fight it. I think you don't, but you do 100%. In some ways you don't, but you deep down, dude, sometimes it can— I think it cuts you a little bit. 100%.

Dylan's over here editing a keynote that I did. Um, today's Thursday at the time of recording. He— why should I— I had a keynote on Tuesday, um, and when I did this keynote, um, I felt afterwards that I was like, okay, there were parts of that were really good. I kind of did the whole like, um, guts talk back from Scott 2 or 3 years ago, but in a little different way. I hadn't done that talk since. Yeah. But I was like, you know what, I think some of these people need this talk. Well, it's funny, one woman went to our booth and was like, if he says the word guts one more time, I'm leaving. She's like, I need more than guts. And I'm like, you know what, you know what that woman freaking needs is some actual guts because she'll cop— stop taking her time to go complain at a booth, right? Yeah, but I hear that and then Lauren's like, eh, she's honest. She's like, hey, I've heard better talks from you. I'm like, okay, cool. I'm like, I'm gonna watch it back because I'm curious, right? Yeah, I just get excited and tense and I yell a lot, right? Some people don't like that, right? Yeah, but I, I sometimes I do it because I'm like, I think people need a breakthrough and they need someone to wake them the freak up. So sometimes I feel like I've got to be that human when I don't hear other people being that human for them, right? I don't know. Um, and then on the other note, literally I had, I had a young lady walk up to me. I've got the old lady at the booth like, I hear Guts one more time. Then I got the other, a young lady that walks up to me outside of the event right afterwards and says, I have heard— she said, I just came from a women's conference for 3 days where I heard an insane amount of speakers, a bunch of big names, a bunch of big paid speakers, etc. She said, I got more out of your 30-minute talk than I did all 3 days. She said, I took more notes. And it wasn't even a talk that where you like sit there and take notes, really. But then I'm so— I'm so, so funny because everybody was worried about people think, and they hear the one 'Oh my gosh, he says guts one more time.' But there's also the other side that's like, 'Somebody freaking love—' Yeah, it's like, what do you listen to? Yeah, you know, and that's the same thing when they're calling leads. This person tells me to get flipping lost. This person says, 'Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you called 13 times.' Yeah, and they, the agents focus on the—

how many— hey, How much, how much energy have people put into getting a lead credit for $15, $20 because the number's wrong or the— they didn't fill it out, or, you know what I mean?

Like, stupid.

I bet you have stories among stories. Oh my, I have them, and I didn't even sell the leads.

Yeah, yeah, I would get them just from people going to corporate and complaining or calling people like you and complaining, and I'd get involved and I'm like What we've had so many though, people will spend days on end trying to get $250 back when they could have made $2,500 in the same amount of time. Or dude, this is what I respected when I first started work with FFL and talking to Sean and Andrew and people like you every day. What I respected the most of the relationship is, dude, they didn't put up with nonsense. And they're like, hey, if anybody freaks out or starts disputing charges or like know, gives you a hard time or demands refunds, just tell them that to come talk to us, you know. And I'm like, that, that was something I respected immensely because a lot of relationships, um, their goal is to like take advantage. Or, you know, I've had people that like make money on the transaction and still dispute the charge, yeah, you know. And I'm like, I've never disputed a charge in my life. I wouldn't even know how, first of all. Um, but second of all, I'm like, I don't want to be that dude that's like so worried about the $1,000 here when I know I can go make $100,000 here, you know. There's a lot of that too in the world.

Do you see similar to how I see it? Sometimes it's people who make— and like, they're actually like really good and they make real money and they will spend time— like, sometimes some of the top producers are the ones that are like Yep, yep, yep.

Well, and then they think the, the problem is, people, we gotta, we gotta remember this: somebody new is watching us every second of every day. And if that's how the top producer's acting, they assume they have to act like that to become a top producer, right? Because they just equate to that. Because some people literally— I don't think people realize this— like, they're watching you and they, they So there were parts of me where I saw Cardone— like, I've studied him for years since 2016, 20— no, 2014, 2015 is when I first started watching him. Um, and then, you know, go to his conference in 2018, go to his conference for years. I studied so many things about him and I was like, dude, if he does this, I guess I just have to do it. Well, just because he's a Scientologist doesn't mean I gotta go be a Scientologist, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, right. So you got to take— nobody's perfect. Even, even some of the stuff I do, John does, whatever, there's things where, you know, you, you should copy it. There's things, yeah, probably shouldn't copy it, you know.

You know what's funny is Steph, one of the things Steph taught me the most in life, period, is to take the good from people and ignore the bad. And I feel like I'm pretty good with that now. There's, there's things certainly about people who I freaking love that I dislike. And I'm not confused how many people dislike things about me, you know what I mean? But I'm like, dude, I'm not all bad. But some people go all or nothing, and I— you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, battery's good. And I'm like, I— dude, I'm really close with some people that others in the industry don't like. And I'm like, I just ignore that piece.

I'm trying to figure out what— I'm actually seriously sitting here trying to figure out what people could say about you specifically. No joke, no lie. I'm so over here thinking like, there's never been a part of me— yeah, I mean, you hold people accountable, you know, you're, you're hard on staff, you— but it's like, oh, any people, anything negative people could— any, any they could say, I'm like, dude, there's also good disguised in that in some way too, probably, you know, which is why I'm okay with it.

I mean, it's, it's the directness people dislike. Um, oh, some, some— the directness, Pete, dude, it rubs people the wrong way sometimes. That's good.

See, didn't even cross my mind. That's good.

I'm okay with it, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's okay. You aren't for me and I'm not for you. That's okay. Correct. Um, and I'm, I'm impatient, dude. I can— and sometimes I have a hard time disguising my impatience. Not sometimes, I frequently have a hard time disguising my impatience. Yes. Um, so I've learned honestly to just own who I am. Yeah, I mean, like, here's what you get when you work with me, or, you know what I'm saying? It's just, it is what it is, and I'm not, I'm not that way to personally make you upset. It just, I'm imperfect. But from, I believe from those imperfections comes a lot of the good things I've, I've helped people with. And like you, I've helped way more people than I've, I've not, for sure. Um, So I just— I've had to learn to be okay with it because for a while I, I used— I used to let it bother me and I used to try to— and I have changed. I've just changed the approach and I've learned how— and you've seen me do it, do it in question format and challenge people in that way.

And that's one of the biggest things I've learned from you, you know. There's been a lot. I could name a good list actually, personally. Yeah, like I've learned a ton from the relationship. I really have. But I would say one of the biggest, um, is, is, is— I, I'm so used to just telling everybody what to do and giving them all the answers when it's so much more powerful if they discover the answer for themselves. Yeah, yeah.

And I— one of the things I'm most proud of is watching Maddox do that, dude. He asks so many questions, this kid. No lie, I'll tell you something funny. Maddox, I wish I could— I wish I could record with Maddox, but he's, he's, he's still timid to get in front of a live event or space. Yeah, the whole what people think thing gets in his way a little bit. But I swear to God, dude, for— I've been— I signed with Integrity 4 years ago. There's no human being on the planet that has, that has asked me more questions about Integrity, the shares, what it's worth, how they got there, what it means. What it means for the family, why we're still there, what we're trying— there's not a human on the planet that has asked me more questions than Maddox about Insanity and how they work, bro. Will be sometimes an hour and he'll just go question after question after question. And what's a stock? Why is it not stock yet? What hap— what's the stock market? How does it work? How do they come up with the price? How do— who, who paid them? Who invested? How'd they get the money to buy your company? And he'll just go and go and go and go and go. And I just like Wow, this is the best conversation of the month for me. Some— I just let him let it rip. And it— at the same time, I'm like, all these agents I work with, none have been inquisitive about the path. So the way he gets to live, then he has zero. Not even Stephanie, dude. It's not even close.

Yeah, that's freaking awesome. That— I mean, I do think, um, being inquisitive can get you a very long way. Just like— and not in a way of like, well, why do we submit the app this way? Or— correct. Well, why does the underwriting— correct— not cover pancreatic cancer in this way? You know what I mean? There's different inquisitives. He's learning. Other agents are stalling.

Correct. It's a solid point because I— yes, I, I, I seek questions so I can put action behind it. Yeah, right away. Correct. And I love that about him. And, you know, it's— I don't like when some people go like, can you stop asking questions? I'm like, I won't say that to Maddox. I'll do— I'll sit there for hours. And he does it about all kinds of stuff. That's amazing, you know.

Well, I love that because you're training him to— you're training him not to, to not stop. And it's like, okay, why do you want someone to stop, you know?

Yeah, well, he got a— he got it. He did get a new golf club recently. He got a new driver, and it came out on whatever date, say, I don't know, February 20th, whatever the date was. And we pre-ordered it. And when you order it, you get a text, and here's your order status, and here's when it will ship. And as part of it, it was like there were like 6 steps. It was like, step 1, order submitted. Step 2, you know, order whatever. Started, and there was like these different steps. And then it was like order assembled was one of them. And he's like, dude, he checked it every 3 hours, and it wasn't supposed to ship for like 2 weeks, but he just kept checking it. And then he'd be like, why is it still stuck on step 3? I'm like, I don't know, what's step 3? He goes, assembly. He goes, how long can it take to assemble a golf club? Swear, dude. I'm like, So we start talking about warehouses and the amount of people and maybe the amount of orders. And it was Callaway, so it's a big company, you know what I mean? And we start talking about it, and then he's like, yeah, but it's been like 6 days. I don't understand how— does it just sit there? Just why don't they hire more people if it's just sitting there? Why, you know what I mean? Like, and he's going and going and going. Then we find out the, the, the head of the club, the shaft, and like the grip are made in 3 different countries. Ones in like Mexico, ones— so then he's like, well, how do they— so they ship one, and he just went all about a golf club order, dude. And I'm trying to logically help. I'm like, I actually don't know the answer to some of this, but here's what I assume. And I just— I love it, dude. So in some ways I love questions, and in some ways when agents ask them, I like want to hang myself.

Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, I could totally see that.

When they want— when they want to copy the ad because they can't call them without it.

I'm like, you know, that one does drive me nuts. That would say if there's one of them that does, because like, I— any leads I ever worked, I never saw the ad. Like, let's be honest, you know. Now, if we can provide some context to help an agent, sure, yeah, that's great. But, but, but yeah, I never had— well, I say that, dude, when I made my first 6 figures, it was, uh, I didn't have a lead. Like, I didn't even know what a lead was. Like, I didn't— I didn't— I did not know that leads where someone actually sent back in, please help me. I didn't know that existed. Yeah, I was new, you know what I mean? And unless somebody tells you something or you do research or you're naturally really inquisitive, yeah, you don't find out, you know?

And there's money in every— what I love about this industry, and it frustrates me because people get so caught up, and I can't do the message because they're like, which company's the best? Which lead vendor's the best? What script is the best? I'm like, You know, they all work. Yes, every style works. Every type of company works. Every script style works. Every— if you dress in a suit and tie or you wear sweat, they all work. Cold Dornoch, man, I know a dude who made 400 G's this year. Cold Dornoch. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, what are we talking about?

Yeah, I could do that. I, I don't want to, but I could. Yeah, and, and if I would have been making, you know, not 35% commission, maybe, maybe I would have.

I don't know. Yeah, it's also a while ago. Yeah, different, different times.

And totally, but true, like, too, like you said, um, okay, people listen, I don't think it's, you know, I think it's understood that like John Wetmore is a millionaire, okay, dude. John Wetmore would be a millionaire in— I think you would agree with this— any company in the industry, independent, captive, any comp level, you would have eventually found your way to Maybe not this fast or this well, etc., right? But you would eventually done well once you figured out some of the basics, you were going to do well. And it doesn't matter where you are now. Are there certain opportunities that are better than others? Totally. Certain details of contracts and, you know, renewals, etc., right? Sure. Totally. But you can— I hate that when people are like, I didn't succeed because it was my practice company. Yeah, I'm like, dude, I, I, I don't, I don't even like that word because I'm like, dude, I'm either practicing or I'm playing, man. And I'm, I'm, I'm in the game at least, you know what I mean? So even when people say that, I'm like, I've just never liked that word because I'm like, dude, I, I don't treat, you know, my first career agency I was a part of as practice, but I was playing hard, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I think it's people's interesting way of— I just, I don't, I don't like— and here's what I believe, other than maybe a new company just getting started. But anybody that's been established, dude, there's people printing money at every company. Oh, 100%. There's someone rich at every established company out there. And hell, plenty of ones that are not established. Yeah, yes, you know, yes. So I'm like, if there's— if, yeah, if someone can do it, like, and I, again, even some of them that I disagree with their business model, I'm like there's people that are rich there. Yeah.

So I'm like, I just, you know, I think that's one of the things I respect the most too. At the same time, even though I may disagree as well, is I like that they have a model when there's so many people that get hired in the business that don't get plugged into any model, and it's just like you're a number, we don't help you get in front of people. Like, I think there's actually more— no lie— there's more models in the industry and more opportunities where new agents come in the business and they don't tell you how to get in front of people. They load you down with product training and say, now go help people. And the person's like, uh, uh, and a lot of, a lot of people, um, I think there's far more entrepreneurs that are really more intrapreneurs that need to be put into a model or a system that are not naturally creative and gonna figure it out or build their own system or model than there are the other.

Yeah, I agree, I agree. It's, you know, it's an interesting dynamic to watch people. Like, I had— I saw someone said something yesterday and they're like, so-and-so's in a lawsuit, you can't work for them. I'm like, bro, you know that iPhone you got? You know how many lawsuits Apple's in? Yeah, lawsuits. Walmart's in and you go and I'm like, or people go like, Google them, like Google us. Okay, hey, you ever Google your religion? Correct. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that's what it is.

Like, dude, well, and okay, that's a good point. Uh, no joke, somebody said some people said about me, they're like, um, I'm not supposed to speak to the terms of it, but whatever, I will a little bit. Um, Cody's in— Cody was in a TCPA lawsuit, and you're not supposed to bring it up either. You're not supposed to like tell on yourself, really. But I'm like, yeah, dude, um, I dropped a voicemail in some dude's cell phone after he told me to, and, and he didn't like it. So I'm like, okay, um, and it, you know, I'm sure it hurt the battery and the phone and all this stuff, right? Sure. Um, but people will say that. They'll be like— they'll go to my dad. It's funny, look at my dad. They'll be like, did you know that Cody's in this, this lawsuit? Like, oh my gosh, that's terrible, and feel so bad for him. Or like, you know, it's interesting is, dude, you know how— you know, you know, the freaking people that are building businesses, you know what the people that I feel bad for? The people that never get in a lawsuit. Yeah. Because if you're building a really big business, it's bound to happen. Yeah. And I feel small that I've only been in a couple of them. Yeah. But it's a different— now I'm not saying Yeah, I don't want to be— I don't want to be in them. I don't like them. They're not fun. They frustrate me. But because I'm human. But at the end of the day, dude, when I see the Cardones of the world, as you know, freaking doing insane amounts of billions of dollars of real estate, and I'm— and, and they're just getting sued all the time, and I'm like, okay, then I'm asking myself, so when we eventually get to that level, hopefully at one day, is that gonna happen to us? And I'm like, you better freaking believe it's gonna happen to us. And I'm— am I gonna be like sad that it's happening? I don't know. But like, if that is what it takes and you got to go through those sacrifices to get to that certain level, dude, freaking bring it on. You know, it's—

you know, all I— as you're saying it, like, sounds an awful lot like a chargeback. In the sense that you ain't getting away from it. It's part of the business, and people lose their mind over it. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, if you ain't getting them, it means you ain't selling.

You ain't selling enough. And hey, and if you—

hey, and be clear, if you sell more, what do you think you're getting more of? More chargebacks, more cancels, more— you know what I mean? Like, it's just part of it. No different than the more business you get, the more stuff you're going to deal with. Don't go away. In fact, the stuff gets bigger and more expensive.

Trust me, they say more money, more problems.

Uh, dude, I'd rather have the money problems than the not money problem, you know what I mean? It's the same thing where people are like, I don't want to pay more taxes. I'm like, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard to come out of someone's mouth. Yeah, like, I'm trying to also pay less relative, but if I'm paying $5 million a year in taxes, I'm fired up because something's going really good.

I want, I want to owe that, and then I want to find creative ways to not pay it. Yeah, but I still want to owe it initially, right? Correct. Yeah, that's funny. People say that too. They're like, um, I mean, I think you see, you see Trump get ragged on like crazy, you know. Most people wouldn't want me to bring this up, but you don't care. Um, it's funny because people are like, they find a way to hate someone who who— and do I agree with everything he says? Dude, probably not. But like, has he been crazy successful in business? Dude, one of the most successful business people in the history of the world. He would make a, a list of some size, right? Great. Um, doesn't take a dollar because he doesn't— to help the country because he doesn't need it. And, and isn't a true politician that wants to do it different than everyone else has ever done it. I'm like, I'm okay with those items, you know. Now, are there gonna be things that I, you know, I'm like, okay, Same as what we talked about earlier. Yeah, I wish he'd keep his mouth shut a little bit and like tweet less, perform totally right. But at the end of the day, um, would you rather someone that's a career politician or someone's career business person running our country? Nobody's gonna say career politician. I would be shocked if they said that, really, because in theory they didn't build anything, they just finagled their way to getting votes, I guess. You know, it's wild.

It's wild. What do you think, um, obviously you talk to a shit ton of people in the business. What do you think, and you can go either way with it, the commonalities are between the ones, and whether you say agents or agencies, maybe both, I'm intrigued by your answer, the commonalities that either the ones that are killing it or the ones that quit, you know, I mean, like, what do you, what do you see the most of? Yeah, in, in commonalities between everybody, because I know a few of them, but Yep, yep.

Um, well, yeah, so agents— I'll start with agents. Um, agent-wise, commonalities of those that do well are they are willing to— few things. One, they're more likely to show up and make less excuses even when they don't feel like it, even though we all just want to find a way to say something negative. Really human Yes, we just want to. Um, also, they, they were more likely to like invest in their business, go the distance. Like, it's interesting, like, if you would say, okay, I want a test to, to give me the results of one thing, I would say the one thing I want to know is when you get— I wouldn't normally say this, but I'm on your podcast— when you get kicked in the nuts repeatedly all day, every single day, Yeah, will you get back up? And when it happens numerous times every day, how many years will you go through that to eventually do really well? That is what I want to test to tell me. Now, is there a test that will tell you that? Not to my knowledge, but that's the one thing I want to freaking know. So how do we test for that a little bit? We test for it a little bit by, um, by pushing on people, you know. And the way I test someone early to see if I think they have a chance of making it is, hey, are you— do you know everything yet? No. Are you scared that you don't know everything? A little bit, yeah. Is there some fear there? Yes. Are you totally prepared to like pick up the phone and talk to people? No. Okay, great, pick it up. Yeah, yeah. And then will they actually do what I freaking say and pick it up? Yeah. If they will, I'll help them make six figures. If they won't, I'm done coaching them because they won't do the first step, as you always say, before you give them the other nine steps, right? Which is one of my favorite things too, that you taught me that, right? Um, you taught me that, uh, Trey also said like the more you— I love this, Trey Hunnicutt, he said the more you train someone initially the, the less— the, the worse they will do. And I'm like, first I'm like, what the hell is he talking about?

I love the way that's worded. He's, he's so good.

Oh, he's so good. He's phenomenal at wording things too. And I'm like— and then I'm like— then he explains it and I'm like, oh dang, dude, he's right. He is so freaking right. And he's like— I'm like, yeah, because the more we pack into someone's brain in the first 8 hours, the more they have to think about all the freaking crap that's in their brain. And what am I— the more info you give me, the more it's naturally going to confuse me, actually, initially, until I can understand it all. And then what does confusion do? Confusion keeps me from acting and actually moving forward and doing right, which sucks. Okay, so there's some of the agent side. Um, the agency side, it's crazy because anything I could say, some agencies probably proved me wrong and done well. Um, however, the agencies that help agents better, in my opinion, because everybody says, I care about agents, I want to help agents, I love agents. Sure, what you really want to do is at the end of the day make a bunch of money. Let's be honest, right? So, so, but, but the more the agencies that I see, um, are the ones that I think the best way is to help agents get in front of people. Yeah. If you can find ways, and there's tons of people that are like, you know, some, some IMOs are like, you got to spend thousands a week. Some IMOs are like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You know, I don't know. All I know is I could just, I could agree, I, I could argue or, or argue against any model for any industry in the world, I could find a loophole for sure. But at the end of the day, those that are getting in front of people on a consistent basis every week will eventually win at a massive level. And those that struggle to get in front of people— that's why the industry is 92% fail, right, and 8% succeed, simply because there are, there are way more models that say, okay, you're candidate number 972 for the month Go figure it out. And they're like, they're hoping 80 of the 1,000 figure it out and actually do okay. You know what I mean? And I don't love that because naturally, deep down, I do want to give and help people. I really, really do. Yeah, that's cool.

I love it. I think there's something to be said too about— I know a lot of the, the people that build something big It's like, I think we, we, what we talked about a little bit earlier, and Trey's, to Trey's point, is like you kind of minimize everything and, and, and stop letting people make a big deal out of stuff that's really not. Yeah. And help them, help them see that, um, because in the big picture, it's, it's, it's typically not a big deal. And many of us have had to learn that ahead. And I think learning how to deal with so many different personalities, dude, That's— that was— that was a hell of a puzzle to crack for me.

Challenging. Hoo-wee.

It's still, to be honest, still some days I'm like, oh boy, how many personalities are there? Nate says 4. I think there's more.

Yeah, yeah, colors or whatever, you know what I mean?

I'm like— but I get that thing was super helpful for me, crazy enough. That was one of the most totally things ever to understand. But I'm like, all right, that one agent has 9 personalities. How does that work, Nate? Yeah, yeah.

That's good too. Um, Ryan Miller told me to read the book Five Voices, just like understand different voices and different types of people. So I'm actually about— I bought it, so I'm about to start going through that. And our team is reading like Good to Great and reading that book every morning by, uh, I think it's Patrick Lencioni. And oh yeah, when you say some of that, I'm over here thinking of— so here's an example. You were an accountant. Yep. If you ask the general question, should you recruit an accountant to sell stuff, more people would say no than yes. So it's interesting because you would say, okay, well, what groups of people do you not want to recruit because it's a freaking stupid idea? Maybe there's not any. Because you proved a ton of freaking people wrong. And all these people are like, dude, recruiting accountants is— dude, you know what, I've got an accountant on my sales team right now. No way. Is he doing amazing in his first few months? No. But does he keep plugging away at the process? Yes. Does he have the best personality in the world? No, right? You've got a better personality than most accountants too. But at the end of the day, I'm over here like, you know what, dude, if he can be an ounce of freaking John Wetmore, I'll wait.

Yeah, maybe that's the key. Accountants, or maybe one of the accountants. Maybe, maybe there's something there. I'm not convinced because I would have it on the list of nos too, to be honest. Yeah, but you proved them wrong. I did. I still try to. Hey, that's a big drive for me, dude, is proving people wrong. That's one of my daily motivators, Peter. That's a big one.

We all have those too.

If you think about it, by F you in a lot of ways, like, F you, bro, watch. Yes, I'm—

that moves me a lot. I can feel it. Yeah, yeah. How does— and I think, I think people, like, a lot of times they want to, um, should they bury their past and, like, move on and, like, stop living in 1992 and they left Corporate America making $370,000 a year. Yes, but a lot of times using those things as fuel. Like, I've heard different people that like have a list of things that they read every morning to like fire them the freak up and go about the day. You know, everybody can do things differently, but I do think figuring out what those motivators and drivers are, they're big. Yeah, I've got a bunch of them, you know. Um, shoot, dude, a couple of big ones, you know, a small one really. My coach was like, hey, you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and you know, you're never gonna mount anything. I'm like, we're gonna see about that, right? Yeah. Um, and, and I was, I was fortunate, but that's not my fault that I'm— my parents are great and, and my dad did well. Blame me. Um, shoot me. Um, but then the other side is like, um, yeah, my dad was let go of corporate America and I was on the team at that point, and I'm like, dude, that they may have let go of him, but I went to my dad and said, they will regret that decision, and that decision will cost them billions, and everyone in the industry is going to know our name. And he's like, probably, you know, I don't know, 10 years ago, he's probably like, huh? You know what I mean? But now he's like, huh, that's a motivator, you know?

Yeah. Imagine if, imagine if all the people that followed you now worked for them. Yes. Yeah, dude. Here's your billions, bro. Correct. You know, it's craziness. You have— you read, uh, Bette David's, um, Choose Your Enemies Wisely? Yeah, I have the book. It's on this. It's, it's— I'm, I'm like 70% through it right now. It's awesome. Yeah, it's, it's in this realm. It— yeah, it goes down this road a good bit. Yeah. The other one, the other one I want to mention too, when you, when you said it a second ago about the personality types, have you ever read, um, Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership?

Some, but not all of it, bro. It's killer.

That's awesome. What I like about it, it's different because most of the ones talk about people's— like, let's use the colors or whatever the— it's like, it talks about people's personalities and behaviors and things like that. Five Levels of Leadership talks about people's views of you through their lens. And how you are different to each different people. Meaning when you're yellow, you're yellow. When you're red, you're red. I mean, now there's mixes, I get it, but your primary or the DISC profile, your ID, your— where the Five Levels of Leadership says, what does Wetmore think about Cody versus what does Joe Blow, who's gonna see this for the first time, think of Cody? And if you, Cody, treat us the same, You're messing up because we don't view you the same. Yeah. And it has nothing to do with that person's personality. It has to do with their perspective of you and maybe what you've done for them or what you've done for the industry or what you do. It was by far the best book I've ever read that helped me understand the way people looked at me and allowed me to adapt knowing that. So learning what their view of me was earlier, help me teach them differently. And there's ways to manipulate that too. Yeah, meaning I can be like, you know, some of the things I've said about you and you've said about me, someone that doesn't know either one of us, that's going to raise their view of us instantly because you said it about me. It holds more weight than me saying it about me.

100%.

Does it make sense? And there's strategy to that in, in building teams and groups.

And totally, you know, that's why I see a lot of— that's a really good point. I see it a lot of events or teams or meetings, different stuff where there's a lot of like, um, little— yeah, there's, there's, there's edifications, but there's also a lot of like jabbing. Oh yeah. Or, um, and it can go the other way to where people like— yeah, they try to lower it. And I see that a lot too. Um, yeah, you're totally right. I think that's, um, that's a, that's a big one that I had to learn over the years. I didn't understand And, and two, um, I want to be able to— even though I am who I am, Heidi, you know, 60-whatever red, you know what I mean, like all the stuff, right? But at the end of the day— and then when I took— we took a recent one, uh, it was called, uh, gosh dang, what was that called? Um, I don't remember, but, but it was, uh, it was like how you were. And I was like, uh, my main— one of my biggest qualities was quick start, another one was like competitive. Um, you know, there's some, there's some negatives to my personality in that. Um, I will start stuff quickly, but I don't always see things through as well as I should. Yep. And I know that about myself. Um, I also am like freaking bipolar half the time without, you know what I mean? I'm not prescribed, but I'm like one minute I'm like super happy and I'm like, this is the best thing in the world. Next minute I'm like ready to just murder everyone in the office, you know? That's not great, you know. Um, my style of leadership is good in a lot of ways, but it's bad in a lot of ways too. And I am— as great as I am for Cody Askins LLC, I'm also very detrimental to Cody Askins LLC. I could give you an example. 5 of our top sales reps have left the last couple months. Um, there's a few— why is that? One, I'm Yeah, if I don't trust people and I don't know that they're going to do amazing, I micromanage the hell out of them, and I'm a control freak. Totally. Um, for sure. But also, I have a tendency to make— I think this is good, but I have a tendency to speak life into people and make them believe they can do anything and accomplish anything. And before I know it, they're comp— they're trying to accomplish it without me, you know? And I'm like, eh, you know, my pastor's like, dude, that's the role that you play in people's life. You've got to just own it. We train killers, we help people, and eventually we train them so well that they don't need us anymore. Yeah, I'm like, but I like that we're not holding people back, so that's cool.

Yeah, I read a thing, I actually read it in Bette David's book. He quotes someone, and I'm not, I'm not going to know who said it, it's someone famous like a Henry Ford or something like that. And he said something along the lines of like, so where some people are hesitant to train people to do really well He, he, and he says something along the line— I'm gonna mess it up, you can Google it and look it up after and see the exact quoting— but he's— it's something like, um, you know, not— he goes, training them so— training them so well they can leave, and the goal is to treat them well enough that they won't. He's like, what's worse, or not training them enough and they stay? You know what I'm saying? It's like, which— yeah, dude, it's— it was deep, bro. I read it in his book last night.

Why do we think like that? Because there's so many leaders are like, I don't want them to pass me, I don't want the— okay, so some of the comp structures, I don't want them to catch me. Yeah, you know, all the stuff, right? And it's like, yeah, do you really want to approach it that way? Because there's been times over the years, I'll be honest, I've thought going, yeah, do I really want to train people so much and give them so much that they just, they got it all, you know? And it's like, at the end of the day, I do, you know?

Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting— it's always a battle, you know? And to your point, it's like, sure, you have negatives, but then the— and the person, the counter to you and me is someone— and one of my detriments is people are like, especially with employees, but same with ages, with humans. I don't, I don't have a— I think you have more of this than me. I don't have a, by default, a ton of empathy. I struggle there. Yeah, I'm really bad at giving people pats on the back. I'm really bad at remembering to be like, good job, buddy. Hey, good job. Or when, when something's going down, going, it's okay. I, and I, I truly believe the person that is like that people pleaser and that like there's a lot of negatives and like I see the good in that Oh, there's a lot of negatives in that. Amen. You know, so I think we all have that. So it's learning to play with who you are and preferably have good people around you that, that are the strengths to your weaknesses. Which is why I assume your wife is in your office now. I don't know, but I'm guessing this 100%.

She freaking loves on people. She lets me know what everybody's feeling all the time, and she'll be like, hey, she She's great at this. She'll be like, hey, you need to go check on this person. I'm like, why? Yeah, yeah, which is a stupid question to ask, but whatever.

Um, how's that, dude, with y'all in the office together? I'm so intrigued by this.

So I'm in the back.

I'll tell you mine first if you want. Go ahead, go ahead. Because I'll be on my— I— dude, it was, it was rough. Like, she— we have to be— we have to not do the same thing at all. Like, we can't it just doesn't work at all. Our personalities are so— we would clash, you know. So it's like she plays her role over there and I play my role over here, and we don't— it's for the same purpose, but we don't overlap at all because we'll kill each other, like, just straight up, dude. And we get along so good, but in this environment, I'm like, uh-uh, you— we can't— we tried so many different ways to be like run staff meetings together, run— where it was not good. I'm like, uh-uh, we gotta, we gotta fix this. We can't— I can't, I can't do this. She can't do this, you know what I mean? The people around us couldn't do it. It was, it was a weirdly ineffective way to be too close to each other. Yeah. So when I see y'all there, I'm like, I wonder how it's going.

Well, yeah, she, she's, um, so she really does a lot of like the finances and QuickBooks and like, yeah. And also just checking on the staff. She's better for the culture, um, than I am. You know, I'll burn the place down and everybody will leave in 12 seconds if I didn't have, um, her at all involved, you know, or Cassidy not involved, or Lindsay or Dylan or whatever. Um, I have surrounded myself with, like, um, Dylan is way better at, like, just relating and connecting to people. As a human being than I am. And he'll know somebody's going through something, I'll have no freaking clue. Um, or, or he would know if I like— if, if, if we were at an event shooting videos, I like offended someone, he would know before me. All day. Um, same with Lindsay. Lindsay, great personality, super bubbly, freaking awesome. People love her. Great client relations, connecting to people. Uh, she, she, she is that— we, we with organizations, with, with leaders like us, you gotta have that or they just don't feel love at all. And, and some people like, that's actually one of their main things they want to feel when they give us money and work with us. They want to feel love. And I'm like, that sucks. Um, Cassidy is, so she's very black and white. There's no gray. Like it's either a rule or it's not a rule and I'm gonna follow it. Right? Amanda's very similar, right? Um, and so she just like does it, and I'm like, ah, just let them slide. She's like, no, no. She's like, she's like, they were here one minute late, they're getting written up. I'm like, yeah, got it, right? I've learned to trust that and just get out of the way, which is great. Um, Lauren is— she's, she's involved in the operation a little bit more now. She's great with the culture, great with people, you know. Her and a lot of the— like, she's she actually— new staff, she'll call a lot of the, um, staff that have been with us, you know, 3 to 6 years— Dylan's been here almost 6 years— she'll call them, um, OGs, you know, original gangsters. And she will offend new staff because of how well she loves on the staff that's been here for a while. Like, they'll come up to her and be like, I hate that you call them OGs. She's like, well, what do you want me to call them? They've been here 6 years, you know. You've been here 6 minutes. Um, seriously, like like she'll get in it, into freaking arguments and almost borderline fistfights with like new staff that are like just super emotional yellows that get offended because she's loving on somebody else to that degree, right? This, this is the office dynamic. This is the people dynamic. When you're— even when you're doing— you guys recruiting, building teams, all this stuff, people can relate to this. Um, I am learning for what we have built. So like I write down every morning that You know, we're doing $10 million a year. We were getting closer to that when marketing and CA were separate. And then I bought market, the marketing side, and then just torched it and lit it on fire and killed a bunch of the revenue and products and made a bunch of stupid decisions and fired 39 out of the 40 people that worked in that company, which is amazing. I don't know why I bought, to be honest, I guess. That's the truth, right? Yeah. However, um, I am learning that what got us here— Cody Askins, LLC— we got us here is not going to get us there. Yeah. And I, because I like to create new stuff, I like to change things every 14 seconds, and, and I'm really hard on people, I'm actually the biggest thing holding us back. And it took a long time for me to get to this this point. I am the problem, like the song, I'm the problem, it's me. It's actually me above everyone else. I'm the biggest problem in our office by far. And so I'm actually getting out of, um, the opera— I'm trying to get out of the operation and let the, the, the, the operational team run it that have been here for a long time and are amazing. And I'm just— and I'm trying to get to where Dude, I'm hanging out with top clients. I'm doing stuff like this. I'm speaking. I'm helping us close big relationships, you know, that type of stuff. I'm promoting our events, selling tickets, whatever. Um, for this thing to get to where I want it to be, which is where we're doing $10 million a year and we're profiting $2 to $3 million a year, 20 or 30%, I have to get out of the way. Yeah. And I've got to keep— I've got to make sure that we, when we create products that we don't roll them out and sell them unless we're really freaking good at it and we know we're going to deliver in a quality way, and that we actually stay consistent with some of the freaking crap that we do for years to come. Because if something's not going well, dude, I'll shoot it in a second. And that's not great because maybe we could improve it. Maybe it's a really cool product that's really amazing. Um, and so I'm learning and, and learning an insane amount the last 10 months, and you know, even the last 3 months. And just— the good news is keeps getting better, you know. I could talk about this topic for freaking days.

Yeah, I mean, it shows the, like, transparency. And growing a business is, is always tough. And what I always tell people is, like, a couple things. Um, one, when I, in my own right, early in my career— and I've probably heard me say this from Stage of Bunch— when I realized I was the problem that immediately freed me to also be the solution. Meaning you are the solution to it also, because you, you can get it now if you, if you execute getting out of the way and doing all the things, you know, you know what I mean? Like the pieces that of the problem you are. Um, but I, you know what I always tell people, dude, is like those following, not in a weird way, but like trying to achieve whoever, whatever level they're trying to get to that someone else is at it's a lot easier because you can just copy the mistakes. The ones leading, bro, I don't know how to get to the next level. And there's very few people on the planet that I can call and be like, yo, how do you get here? Does that make sense? But I can walk anybody through doing— you know, we did $15 million last month. I'm like, I, I know I can teach that. I don't know how to get to 20. I don't know that yet. I'm messing it up left and right trying to figure it out. You know, some time will do some of it by itself, but like you, I'm trying to expedite things and go like, how do we— how do I double again? I don't know the answer, dude, you know. And it's good. And that willingness for people to continue to fight through kind of the blind and the dark and the fog and the— where that, um, yeah, that, that ability to do that says a lot about about who you are. And I— it's like looking for people that have that willingness because it 100% doesn't get easier, it gets harder.

No, no, no, it does. And you have to constantly reinvent yourself. And I worry when I feel like we've arrived and things are going well and smooth. I actually get concerned because I'm like, okay, right around the corner I'm about to get punched in the flipping face for sure.

Yeah, there's a left hook coming, bro, if you stop. If you stop— 100%. Have you ever seen that quote? I, I'm trying to remember how it's worded. It's like, um, like lazy people say they're working more than they are, and the ones that are working a bunch think they're lazy. Like, how's that go? You probably know it better. Yeah, I see it all the time on Instagram.

Yeah, it's like, it goes like, um, lazy people, um, think they're working really hard and that they're doing enough. And it's like, really, like, losers. And then winners feel like they're losing and they're never doing enough.

Yeah, they feel like they're being lazy in a sense.

Yeah, crazy enough. Yeah, yeah, lasers— yeah, lazy feel like they're, they're working hard and winning, and winners feel like they're losing and lazy. Yeah, it's wild. And it's not It's not fun, but it's like, I just— and, and I think the staff feels it. And it's like, you want a team that feels like we're winning and doing well, which is why I don't want to run a lot of the meetings anymore, because freak, dude, I get upset and feel like we're losing all the time. And if I look back 8 years, we're winning. Yeah, but if I look back yesterday or tomorrow, we're losing.

So far today we've not done shit. I don't know what I've done today, really, like, you know what I mean? I struggle with that too, dude, to not make my staff feel like I feel, because I always feel like I'm not enough and haven't done— and I'm like, I have to appreciate, I have to remember to like be like, yeah, dude, we killed it this year. All right, can we be done celebrating? Can we go now? Like, I just— it's a, it's a battle, dude. Correct.

And, and we don't get the pat on the backs and the praise and the encouragement, but we also don't need it, which is why we also don't give it. Yeah, because we're just, you know, it's wild.

Wow, dude, I love this. Uh, it's been fun.

This is cool.

Yeah, we're gonna do— we're definitely gonna do— we gotta do more stuff together, dude. I agree. A lot. We need to—

yeah, and we have a lot in common. I mean, for the audience, dude, is there stuff that we probably if we, you know, talk long enough, disagree with 1,000%, you know. Um, but you, you just— so many things you learn along the way. Um, and we're running different things to where we've both just learned a lot. And then we're bounce— like, I bounce ideas off you all the time, you bounce ideas off me when it comes to, you know, inside staff and, and media and team and, you know, etc. We bounce ideas off each other. And it's like, I think that's the cool thing is You people need to never stop doing that. Yeah, yeah, it's like, take the—

you're really good at those pieces. I'm like, shit, I want— I need to get better at them. That's our focus this year is to really focus on the marketing side and me get better at it. How we just— we have a guy starting, dude. I was slow hiring this one because I hired them so fast and then I found out they're gone quick. And I've taken like— obviously you help us with a lot of the, the social stuff, editing and things like that, or your team does. And, uh, you know, we talked about having someone in-house to do it better and things we want to do, and we'll do other stuff together. But I'm like, did we— I think we've been working on it. I don't think I've had someone in that role for like close to a year, probably. Wow. I just hired someone, uh, Monday. Flew in from Wisconsin, was from here, interning for the Green Bay Packers. He wanted to move back. Yeah. And so we did it remote. And I usually don't look at people not local, but he's like, hey, I'm not local, but I'm gonna be local. I'm just trying to find the right deal. I'm from relatively the same area. Like, so we, we had him fly down Monday. Great kid. And I'm like, all right, after like 3 interviews, some first remote, first with my team, then one with me remote, and then we had them come in and a project similar to you. Like, I want to see your stuff first, like with my stuff. Yeah, you know, and we, we gave them some stuff that we messed up, record, like it was— we gave them like a hard thing, you know, and just see how we see how I responded. And so fine, anyway, point is, uh, we finally have that, that, that piece hired and starting in a couple weeks.

Awesome. Yeah, open it. That's big. Congrats.

Takes us to the next level, which is why I'm finally doing this, because I'm like, all right, I don't want to do— I just want to do this. I don't want to do the rest. I don't want to know how it gets on the internet. I don't want to know what clips. I don't want to know nothing about YouTube. I don't want to know. I want to hit record, talk, be done, and never look at this again.

Yeah. And it's, it's a— yeah. And that's why people end up not doing a lot of stuff, is it's a pain. And you mentioned something too that's really cool, is like, if you think about it, like when you're recruiting Um, you want people to do well, but you're very brutally honest with them when you recruit, you know. Um, but most people, when they're hiring staff, it's almost like, oh my gosh, you showed up, this is amazing, you should be on the team. When now, um, that's why we don't put me in sales interviews as much anymore. Um, like sometimes I don't meet, I don't meet the sales reps at all anymore, whether we hire for the inside sales team because, um, one, I'm either like freaking promoting how much money they can make too soon, or two, I'm freaking brutally hard on them and I'm like, ah, I doubt you do. I doubt you're gonna do well or make it, you know. But at the end of the day, that's what, um, Cassidy and Rodney, their job is to tell them how freaking brutally hard it's going to be and how it's going to take 6 months and you're gonna like hate your life for 6 months and it's gonna suck. But if you can do that, you will do well here. And, and it's like, that's— and, and they'll go through literally, yeah, 2, 3, 4 interviews. And, and it's, it's helped a lot because it's almost like, if you can talk— if you can— if you can't talk them out of it, they're the right person.

Yeah. Yeah. And that is my style. I'm trying to get you to— I'm trying to get out of the interview as fast as possible, you know, and be done and move on. If you stick with it and sit in the inside stuff— I don't do the interviews. I will certainly give the final approval, but they bring someone to me like, yo, we think this person will fit everything. I just— I don't even read out— I don't look at resumes anymore. I don't— I just can't because I mess— I've messed it up so many times. I'm like, all right, y'all do it and tell me the piece I need to to do, you know, which, which was hard, but it's helping. Yeah.

Does your personality want to be involved in everything too? Like mine does by default.

Yes. Oh my God. Yeah, I fight it, dude. Like, I fight it because I'm— I've learned how bad it is for me to be involved. But so I have to have this balance of like— and I'm still learning it, dude. It's a hard balance. I actually go like— because I was involved in everything And the reason I, I think I'm really good at building the agency is because I did every piece of it, you know, like every piece. Like, I did the contracting, I was getting the, the contracting paperwork faxed in back in the day and having— like, I did all, all the steps. I did the admin work, I did the recruiting, I dialed the leads myself, I submitted apps on my own. I didn't have people doing the stuff for me. So I've taught people to take the things off my plate that I was doing. Is how, you know what I mean? Yes. And, um, so by default, I do want to be involved in everything because I was everything before I hired my— my staff helped me get to a new level. They didn't help me build the foundation. 100%. They weren't even here.

Yeah. Um, I like that too from a leader, but like, um, like, I was doing videos and uploading them to YouTube before Dylan got here. Yeah, he's freaking way better at it than me. I was— you saw it, dude, back in the day. I was building before I had a big team, I was building all the lead orders. We were getting 100 a day, and I was, I was working building them, right? I was doing the client relations, project management, the selling, the emailing, the, the hiring, the firing, the, you know, I mean, the, the Stripe, the finances, the all of it. And when you've done every detail, it's good because you know what's expected, and then you can help pass it on. But our personalities that are naturally control freaks too, like I end up not accomplishing as much as I should in a day because I'm very involved with every freaking detail. And I've gotta— I've gotta get to where I just trust the team. And, and because it drives me mad, because— and I'm getting pissed off. I'm like, gosh, freaking today sucked. I feel like I did everything. Lauren's like, why did you do that? I'm like, because I just can't freaking help it. She's like, but you know you don't have to. I'm like, yeah, but I don't know how not to yet.

Yep, I still struggle with it some days. I'll like, I'll book my flight, I'll book a hotel where Amanda does that typically now, you know what I mean? But I'll, I'll be like impatient about it and I'll go book it and I'll set up the car service, the things, and I'll mess something up. And she's like, and I'm like, sorry, I, I know, I know I got in the way. Sometimes I just can't help it. I'm sorry. And so I, I, it's a daily fight, dude. And you know, for me, it's having done all the stuff, especially when I teach it, I'm like, here's, I need you to do it my way, and so you can come up with a way that's better, and I'll allow you to do it better, but it has to work quicker, make more money, be done sooner. I can't, otherwise I, I will, I will mentally break down if it's You know, I've had to learn how to add grace. And, and I'm, I'm— my personality type is I'll figure it out. I will figure it out. When you tell me— I hate when people are like, that can't be done, it doesn't exist. Like, shit, I'm not near anywhere near on the top of the list of the smartest people on the planet. I'm not even remotely— I'm not even in the conversation. I'm nowhere near it. I'm 100% sure I'm not the first person to think of it. No. So to come and say it can't be, I don't accept that. So now what I love about my team is they'll be like, they know if they come to me, if they— if the answer is we can't, I'm going to question it. So I need you to question it before you come to me. And I'd rather you come to me and be like, it can't be done that way, here's how it can be done, and here's what it would take. Yeah, maybe there— maybe it's a longer path, maybe it's more expensive, maybe it requires investment, maybe You know what I'm saying? But don't tell me you can't. I don't— I love that. I, I won't accept it. Yeah. So now we finally— I've had to learn to build that into like the interviews and the reading out. It's like, here's who I am, here's what you're getting. Yeah. You know, that's really cool stuff. But the downside is I'm never satisfied. I'm always going to challenge you. I'm always going to want to do more. I'm always going to create something. I'm, I'm not going to celebrate long. I'm, I'm gonna call you out if I think something sucks. It's who I am. I'm, I'm not sorry, but I kind of am, maybe because I'm supposed to be. But here's what you get. And I think that's helped, dude, is me just be really transparent about it. And, and, and I'm sure you're the same in most ways, you know.

It's like a lot of ways. Yeah, a lot of ways. I, I, I, yeah, they don't come to me and tell me that's We don't, we just can't do that. Because then I'm like, uh, you want me to do it? They're like, no. Yeah. Okay then, don't make me figure it out. Yeah. Well, and I've hated, I've hated doing that, but dude, when I took over the marketing company, um, and fired a bunch of the team, like, first meeting I went into the engineers and I'm like, dude, we should be doing this. You guys haven't innovated since I was doing it in 2018. This is how you should be freaking doing it. They're like, yeah, we can't do it like that. It won't work. I'm I'm like, okay. So, and then I'm like, get— we have 6 engineers. I sit down at— this is a true story— I sit down at the table and there's 6 engineers after I take over the company. And I'm like, guys, why are there 6 of you? And they're like, well, they're like, because we're understaffed and we need more people and, and we just can't keep up. And I'm like, I'm gonna say this once. I said, first of all, I'm gonna prove in the next week we don't need all of you. And I could step in and do all of your jobs, including what I'm already doing. I'm like, I'd have to work more, I'd spend some weekends, but I could do it. And they're like, dude, there's no way, you're wrong. I'm like, okay. A week later, fired 4 people. Yeah, I don't want to fire people, I like people, but I also don't want to freaking overstaff just because, you know, like, I, I love that Elon went in and— yeah, dude, I— and at the end of the day, dude, a company is supposed to freaking profit. Because if it doesn't profit, it can't do anything else. We've got several people on our team that deserve raises, dude. I've got to get the company in a better place to do them, and I feel bad about it. I do, because they're freaking amazing human beings that deserve more because they do more. Yeah, but I've also got to run the company in, in the best way we can.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I tell ours now, like, we're making X without you, so if I'm gonna pay you $60,000, $70,000, $80,000. Uh-huh. Your ROI better be a fair amount over that, or what's the point?

100%. Yeah, my CPA says that, that, um, of your revenue— they have a big CPA firm, they do $18 million a year in revenue, they have like 5, 6 offices, they have 167 staff. That's why I went with them too. I'm like, I'm also going to learn a lot, this is great. And I can ask them all kind of questions, like, this is good. Um, they're, they're amazing. It was cool because they, um, he said, dude, out of your revenue, a third should go to people, including commissions. I'm like, okay, cool. For me at least, right? Could ask Kelsey. Yeah. A third should go to overhead, and a third— it may not always be a third of profit, but like, hey, that's the goal, you know? And I'm like, yeah, it's not a bad—

yeah.

And so we start doing that math. I'm like, freak, I'm a long way off. So then we're able to like make adjustments. And he says, if you— he said, if you do— if you have a sales rep inside and, and they're selling, you know, and you're paying them $100 grand, they better bring in $300. And I'm like, oh dude, that's freaking great. Like, that makes sense. Because we had a sales rep that made $195 grand last year, $200 grand. And I'm like, dang dude, we're overpaying that person. That's me. I'm like, but at the end of the day, like, but I think they brought in close to $600, about $600 grand. I'm like, but Dude, it was the right number. It made sense.

But, but leads, you know, leads and paid.

Yeah. And for me, I— and naturally I'm like, yeah, they made a lot, but— and I'm like, sure, they were paid, I don't know. But I'm like, dude, I want people making a bunch of money at the same time. Part of me, that part of me, where— but the operational side's like, dude, they're getting paid too much. You can't— you know, they're trying to micromanage the business. They're like, can't believe you did this and you freaking pay them this much money. This is ridiculous. And I got people getting pissed off about it. I've been here longer. I'm like, well, go freaking pay for the phone. You know, they, they brought in 3x what they were being paid. Yeah, at a minimum. That's the minimum. Yeah, but it's cool because then you know the number and you're like, okay, cool, we can follow that. Yeah, it's dope.

I love it, dude. Yeah, when you get two people together that can talk a lot, this could go 9 hours.

I know, we're an hour and like 15 minutes. It's fine. Funny.

Yeah, so we're gonna leave them with something dope, dude, and we'll do another one. All right, cool. Give them, give them, give them some Cody to wrap.

All I know is, dude, you keep following this cat and listening to what John is saying. I learn a lot from people like this that have done big things. I try to still remain coachable. And it's too— I think if people will just realize, because here, here's what, here's what gets in the Cody's way. I'm brilliant. I have a big ego. I'm amazing. Nobody can do it better, dude. The better way to reframe it is I shouldn't kill my confidence, but I should say, in retrospect, I'm a dummy. I still got a long way to go and I can learn an insane amount. And as long as my heart's in the right place, great things are gonna happen. But at the end of the day, there are far more people better at a bunch of different things than I am. I need to keep learning from them. And if you take that approach as a human being and a business owner, you'll go a long freaking way. And then one day you wake up and you'll be John Wetmore.

I always say, be careful what you ask for if that's your hope. Careful what you ask for.

Thanks for having me on the first one. I loved it. It was amazing. It was so much fun, bro.

I love hanging with You got it, bro. Same, same here. Appreciate your time. Keep, keep killing, dude. I'll see you soon.