How to Secretly Make MILLIONS In Annuity Sales ft. John Gavin | Ep41

You know, when we start talking about annuities, I think a lot of people just tune out instantly. There's a billion reasons why you should be interested.

You told me what your book of business was. I was like, holy moly.

I mean, right now we've got about 100— it's $140 million right around there.

What up, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. If you are wanting to know how to write annuities, how to be more profitable, If annuities scare you, if you think they're complicated, or if you just want to make a bucketload more money this year, dude, stay here. Don't leave this. I'm with one of my best friends on the planet, John Gavin, and, uh, he's a beast in the annuity space, has written a ton. He's humble as shit, so we'll pretend he's not. Um, he does lose his car keys though and doesn't know where he's going most days, he says, but writes a ton of them, helps a ton of people write a ton of them. And, uh, we're gonna be talking about the annuity space today, dude, so I appreciate you coming on.

Love it, thanks for having me. Yeah, I think AlphaBrain just to find my keys.

If y'all ever have the opportunity to come to an event that John Gavin's at, or space, or hang out, like, you will laugh more than you've ever laughed at any other conversation ever. Me and Amanda were just talking about last time we were together. Oh dude, we do have fun.

That might have been the hardest time I ever laughed too. That's good times.

Yeah, it was a good— it was a good, good, good night. Good day, good night, good evening. It went on for a long time. Yeah, my cheeks still hurt. Um, dig it, dude. What's funny is you reminded me a little while ago, we were chatting this morning on my drive in from— we were, we're discussing our medical woes as old people. And, uh, you reminded me that we actually met at an annuity event because I guess we both wrote enough to get invited to some thing from some carrier where they chose. Yeah, and somehow they picked me and you.

Yeah, man, that's hilarious.

That was a long time ago, dude.

What year was that? Do you remember? I— the funniest part about it was I— we're on a bus and you had just— we were just starting out and, and I had heard you on a training call, and, and somebody said, hey, Wetmore, and they looked back at me, and I— and you go, you answered. You were sitting in the seat behind me, and I'd heard you, but I didn't know who you were. And I, for some reason, I thought you were like an old dude. You know, this is 10, 11 years ago now. And, and I turned around, I'm like, you're John Wetmore? And you go 'What up, dude?' And that was it. That's where it started.

That's how we met. Yeah, that's funny. We were on like a prison bus. Yeah, getting shuttled somewhere.

Exactly what it was.

Yeah, that's funny, dude. But yeah, dude, I remember the first memory I have, and I don't know if it was before— I must have been before this, I don't really know— but I remember you called me. I remember exactly where I was, dude. I was driving to an appointment. I can tell you the road I was on. Somehow it just It's like a flash, because I thought it was so weird that you called me to go, hey dude, can you help me sell annuities?

Yeah.

And I was like, no one's ever called me for that before. But I had just started selling some, dude, because some— someone was like, dude, you need to start selling these things, they're really easy. And I had a— and I'll let you teach it, but I had a question I was taught to ask, and I put a sticky note on my dash on my car and I would just go into an appointment and read what was on the sticky note, and I just started selling some.

Yeah.

And then I, I don't know what I taught you because I'm like, I don't—

I know exactly what it was because I was so bad at the beginning. And you closed— if you closed one, you closed more than I did. And I was just overcomplicating them.

Yeah.

And I remember I was having trouble getting some funds transferred, and I called you up and I said, dude, how do you How do you get the funds transferred? And you said call the person that wants to quit tomorrow. Don't call the broker, call the customer service line, find the person who wants to quit tomorrow and have them transfer the funds. And I'm like, there you go, because I was 100%, I was, I was doing everything wrong.

Yeah, so I remember, dude, because they, they had— I got help closing the deal, the deals, right?

Yeah.

And I had written a decent amount of them, dude. I think that year I sold like almost a couple million worth or something. I mean, I sold a decent of them. Yeah. And, uh, having sold none my first— I don't know, that had to be what, 2015 or some— I don't know, something like that. I mean, 2014, '15, whatever it was. So I went 3, 4 years selling none. Um, and I remember the second one I sold— the first one was a small one— the second one I sold, I made $34 grand on.

Wow.

Right? And I'm— I won't forget it because Um, when you, when you try to start transferring the money, it's held with whoever— Joe Blow Financial, whatever company it is. And you know, you got to send this, and I don't know if it's— it certainly has changed, evolved some, but at the time you had to fax in the paperwork and they would— it would go through 9 departments. Yeah. And I'm like, these— the, the companies would notify the person who managed it, like, hey, someone's requesting to change the money. And I'm— I was like, God, I gotta fight this guy over the thing. And I would get frustrated. But I have like a— I have like a little mental problem where I feel like I can solve everything. Like, if you're like, no, you— you can't get any of those, I'll find it.

Yeah.

Like Maddox, we were trying to get him a new baseball. He wanted a specific baseball glove. It was, uh, Wilson August Baseball Glove of the Month. It was like this brown with a pink trim. It's a very specific glove he wanted, and you can't get them local. So him and I are like, we'll find it. We go online and we search. Eventually, long story short, we find the thing at some place in Florida. They ship it to us. That's just who I'm built like that. So when I was told you have to wait a long time to transfer money, I didn't like that answer. And I'm like, nah, I'm gonna figure this out.

Yeah.

And I just kept calling and calling and calling. Eventually, dude, I found if you just call literally customer service, you're like, hey, I'm trying to help Joe, they go, oh yeah, hold on, and they hit the button.

Yep.

And I was like, hot damn. So I was getting annuities issued at the time, dude, they were getting paid out in under a week.

Yeah, that—

when that was not the norm, I was told it was 2 months plus. Yeah, you know, so I'm glad I taught you something. I forgot about that part.

Yeah, no, you did.

But today it's probably a lot easier, I'm guessing.

It's, it's so easy, it's seamless now. It really has. I mean, very, very few hiccups along the way. And we start talking about advisors and brokerages and stuff like that, people might start getting a little skittish, overwhelmed. This is like when you say, oh, he's a beast at annuities. It's like, I honestly feel like someone's telling other people I'm the best shoe tier in the nation. It's just that easy, to be honest with you. And I'm like, yeah, you just have to hang.

I'm telling you, don't go anywhere. We're gonna dick around a little bit because it's who we are and we're really simple, but I'm telling you, you're gonna learn some stuff. Um, the best shoe tire— I want to see if my staff can get you like a— we're going to get you a custom shoelace or something.

Oh yeah, there you go.

Here's the thing though, dude, you, you, you told me what your book of business was.

Yeah.

And it was a really big number. You can share it if you want. I don't remember it, but it was— I was like, holy moly.

I mean, right now we've got about 100— it's $140 million right around there.

Um, yeah, you know, and so you're doing something right. Yeah, you know, and I, I think let's start with, um, before we get into the details, it's like, I know as building the agency— and, and for those that don't know, John and I have been— again, you've obviously learned we've known each other for a long time. Um, our companies were acquired by the same company. We're business partners in many ways. Like, this, this dude's built something really cool. As much as he's we're gonna goof off. Um, but it's like, as we build the— built each separate agencies, you know, we're kind of running buddies, if you will, along the way. One of the things we always try to focus on, and my deal is like, let's help agents get paid. That's always the focus. How can I help people that I work with get paid? I help manager— managers get paid more. I help people that are running companies get paid. My focus, and anyone I'm coaching, how can I help everyone get paid more? And if you help people get paid more, they stay. So if you're trying to build an agency, if you make someone profitable, make money, they stick around, you know. So I, I would love you to talk about that angle of this, like what it does, why, like that whole dynamic, dude.

Yeah. And, and, you know, the thing about, you know, when we start talking about annuities, I think a lot of people just tune out instantly. They're like, oh, I'm just not interested in those, or, oh, those are complicated. And there's a billion reasons why you should be interested. And I don't know if I'd be in business if I didn't start writing annuities. I don't know if I would have built an agency if my agents didn't sell annuities. And so, you know, my background early on when I came into this industry, I was flat broke. And I had— I mean, I was like flat broke, like selling my plasma to feed the kids, bro, you know?

And no shoelaces.

Yeah, slip-ons. Um, and so when I, when I saw somebody that I was at a training event with, he got all excited because he had a deposit. Um, his deposit was $40-something thousand. Um, and, and I'm like, how'd you get that? He was also an annuity, you know. And I knew that I had my license and I knew that annuity was part of it, but it was just so foreign to me. But I just knew that, you know, $42,000 deposit into my account would have changed everything back then. Yeah. And so I made it a goal to figure these things out because I knew, you know, life insurance— I could sell life insurance and, you know, sell, you know, the ebbs and flows. And, and I knew I could sell quite a bit of that, but I knew that having those larger deposits deposited, you know, frequently or even every so often would, would be like a financial backer into my business and would take out a lot of those ebbs and flows and a lot of the volatility when we're first starting out. And so So I made it a point to, to learn more about them, but we didn't have all the information that we have right now. And, and at the time, we didn't have anyone that really wanted to make it simple.

Yeah.

So when I started out, I just took information from everywhere, and I was good at uncovering the money, um, and, and, and then I'd make this like Frankenstein presentation from information from everywhere and present it to people. And I, and I didn't understand it completely myself. And I confused everyone I sat with.

So, you know, there's probably them watching right now. That's how—

yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, over time, I realized, you know, I started just kind of making them more specific to what our clients are concerned with, and focusing just on that, not on everything else. And so I started writing them and closing them pretty consistently. And in the agency, when people first came in, we taught them to uncover the money right away, and then we'd help them. And so we built up some of the top annuity producers in the country that way, by instilling it early on and showing them you don't have to know a lot about annuities, just uncover the money, it'll help you. And so over time, I can tell you that building a business, building an agency The people who have never rolled me debt are people that write annuities. The turnover is non-existent to people that write annuities. And when your agents have more money and are more profitable, they can build a bigger agency themselves because they have that influx of capital coming in from writing annuities.

Yeah, I love it, dude. And for those, for those watching now, keep— John and I are coming up with some really dope stuff to help people. Um, if you go to johnwetmore.com/annuity, team's gonna build a page, dude. We're gonna have some, we're gonna have some upcoming trainings, we're gonna do some boot camps, we're gonna literally, dude, he's gonna hold your hand through some of these.

Like, it's—

we got some sick stuff, um, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about. And I know YouTube really well, and most people lose their, uh, attention span long before the hour or so we'll spend here. So at minute 12, we're giving you the website.

There you go.

So go there, register if you want some help. If, like, if you're looking for help closing annuities, if you're looking like to be trained on annuities, and you can work where you work, we don't give a shit. This isn't like a trick to get people to work here. We don't care at all. Um, we're actually going to help you. And John's— the way he does it is sick. Um, so again, JohnWetmore.com/annuity, and you can register for some upcoming stuff we got going on as well. Um, certainly continue here. Um, do you— dude, what do you know about— and I'm a numbers guy, right? So I was looking at— and I know you know the stats— give them like What percentage of agents did you say write annuities? 4. Like, really, the 4% total? Yeah. What's the number if we go like, I don't know, whatever you want a classification you want to make it— top agents or people over $250 grand or like higher producing, productive life, whatever, whatever you sell agents— it's a way bigger percentage that actually selling it. What do you know what that number is? Roughly.

Um, I, I don't know what that number is, but I know if you want to look at profitability, that number is really high, you know.

Dude, I think, I, I think someone told me it was like 75% of like top agents, right? I mean, it's some obnoxiously high number.

That could be right. Um, it sounds about right too. Yeah, I think, I think that, you know, when, when people realize that their insurance license allows them to sell annuities— a lot of people have this misnomer that they need a separate license and they don't. Your life insurance license allows you to write fixed index annuities. Type of video. Yeah, um, yeah. And so, you know, we've been on this, you know, I've helped a lot of people write annuities. And the first one, uh, once they get past the first ones they write and they issue and they get paid on and they realize how easy it was and what they got paid, they catch that fever and they, they, you know, crazy enough, they find 2, 3, 4, 5 more.

Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, dude, I started writing one a month Once I figured out the simplicity of it, I was, I was one a month. Actually, if you remember back in the day, they used to do an award for who had them consistently. You know, you made up all kinds of stuff, but I, I knocked out at least one a month. So I mean, sometimes they'd be $25 grand. The biggest one I did was like $5-something, um, but I had a bunch— $100 grand, $200 grand, $300 grand. What's, what's like an average commission, dude, for someone?

Well, we do—

doesn't know what the hell they're doing.

I did a training event in Vegas a few months back And, you know, pretty good sample size. We had about 1,000 people there, and we had people who had written an annuity in the last year kind of stand up and talk and poll them. And the average commission was about $8,200, and the average length of time was 35 minutes. And so then the other 96% of the people who haven't written annuities are like, 35 minutes for an average of $8,200? And we had some bigger ones in there. We had some people that got paid $40,000, $50,000, $60,000 on them, um, you know. But those are, you know, those are, you know, you know, rare. But if you're looking to build some consistent income that does not charge back— I mean, of all, I've had one chargeback in my entire life, and that guy was a moron. So outside of morons, I've never had a chargeback.

And one ever.

Yeah. And the guy actually came back to me a year later and wanted me to rewrite it again, and I just said no. You know, so, um, yeah, these are, these are great ways to get deposits that don't charge back.

Yeah, and, and you're doing them remotely, clearly, right? Because everybody's on the telesales. Yeah, everything, whatever you want to call it today.

We used to do face-to-face, and that's one of the things that once we went to remote phone sales, telesales, Zoom sales, whatever you want to call it, that's the one product that we did not think would transition because of, you know, the you know, it's a retirement account. It's what somebody's worked 30, 40 years to accumulate. I closed one last month over the phone, never seeing the guy. You know, he just, he doesn't do Zoom. I called him up over the phone. We kind of went through everything. We wrote it up. And now he's my favorite client. He just calls me and checks in on me, just says hi. You know, I got a call from him 2 days ago, you know, and he's like, hey, just Merry Christmas, da da da da da. And so yeah, with technology the way it is nowadays, everybody is okay with doing everything remote. So yeah, transitioned really well.

When, um, give a— can you tell us about like someone you've worked with recently that— well, first let's do this. I want you to get into a story with someone specific, but let's talk about this, what we're gonna drop and help people with outside of each one of our agencies, because it's stuff we've done internally for a while. Talk about the numbers you were telling me when you started working with Zach's group, what they had sold year to date as a team, and which, to be clear, helped my agency too.

Yeah, right.

Zach's in debt to us. Our annuity numbers blew up this year, and we were doing decent. We sell a lot of them relative to most people, but percentage-wise, I don't feel like we were that high. Yeah, I mean, as many life apps as we sell. So we've improved on it a ton. But what did that— what did it go to and from and to in like—

yeah, a couple—

is it like August or something?

15 months ago. It wasn't this August, so it was 15 months— a year ago, August. Um, you know, I saw some numbers and talking to, you know, Zach and, and looked at where his life volume was, um, compared to where his annuity volume was. And, and I just called him up and said, dude, the amount of life volume that your agency writes, why are you so low on annuity volume? Because there's a huge market for, for our products, and our products are so strong, um, and it's an easy, easy, easy sell when you get in front of people. So I'm like, you guys are talking to these people every single day, you're meeting with people, you're selling life insurance, but you have virtually no annuity volume at all. And so at the time, he was doing about $500,000 a month, um, in annuity volume.

And so face amount of annuities to be—

yeah, yeah. And so we— I started doing a training with him, with his team, and he's got a great group there. I mean, just young studs that are just eager to learn and eager to build businesses. So in August, we started this, this training program, and by December, he was at 6— he was at $5.8 million for the year in August, and he finished in December with $30 million. So it ramped up pretty quick.

So you added $25 million in 3, 4 months?

Yeah, yeah, I got up there pretty quick. Yeah.

And you're pretty good at tying shoelaces then, bro.

Yeah, yeah. Uh, it's just, it's just a simple thing. It's just, here's the thing about it is, is it's, it's not, it's, there's not an extensive lot of training that goes into it. You just need to give people the confidence that, A, they can write it B, that it's great for the clients, and C, it's phenomenal for them, you know. And, and the people that write the most annuities, they're not the people who know the most about the products. They're the people that are the most active in uncovering the funds and finding where the money is and then taking advantage of those, those, those opportunities and getting a lot of that conversation with the clients.

Yeah. Can you give story or two, whatever like stands out to you as far as like someone that didn't do them, you watch how you do it, like you mean that process, and then we'll kind of get into more specifics.

Yeah, I mean, I've got quite a few. I've got one agent of mine that he's been with me forever and he works in an area where the number one annuity producer in the country works and he had written zero. And he just kept telling me, the money's not out there, the money's not out there, the money's not out there. And I'm like, dude, the number one annuity producer in the country works in the same area as you. You can't tell me the money's not there, right?

Yeah.

And so, um, so he calls me up one time and, and he, he's like, hey, I've got somebody, they've got a dormant 401. I'm like, okay, great. So we jump onto Zoom, he sees the process, and, and we wrote it. And, and afterwards he's like, 'That's it?' I'm like, 'Yeah.' And he thought, because I do write a lot, that there would be, you know, there'd be all these, these, these word tracks he'd take away, like, 'Oh my God, it's amazing,' and fireworks and charts and light shows and stuff. Yeah, smoke. When we're done, and the guy said, you know, and, and the guy said, 'All right, let's do this.' And, and after, he's like, 'Dude, that's it?' Yeah, that's, that's it. So now he does, you know, I think he did, um, he did $2 million last year on his own. Yeah, got up and running, and now he's, he's pretty consistent. So I think that actually happens a lot, is when people see the actual presentation, see the buy-in from the client, and, and they see how engaged the client is and, and, and, and what a great strong project is, it solves a lot of their fears and their concerns. They're like, that's it. And then they go have that confidence and just, then they just start finding money everywhere.

What about people that are like, I sell final expense, they're broke?

Well, if you start asking the questions, you know, uncovering the money, you'll find out those people aren't always so broke. You know, there's countless stories about, you know, people who, you know, when we were going, you know, face to face, that people walked into trailers where there's holes in the floor and found $700,000. You know, everybody, you know what, everybody works, everybody's got 401s, they've got money put away, it's everywhere. And you can't You can't discriminate who you think has money and who, who doesn't, because you'd be shocked, you know, at who does.

When I learned to ask that question, uncover stuff, I go into the biggest one I wrote. I made $34 grand. Client still calls me to this day. He, um, he's a trip, bro. He never can remember Athene's phone number. He never remembers how to withdraw money. Like, he calls me every time he needed your help.

Yeah, he does.

He 100%. He 100%. So I go into this house, dude. It's a, it's a, it's a lead out in, out in the country. He has a house, but it's, um, I want— I— where you have to like, you can't knock on the front door because it doesn't work. Oh, and so I had to go in through the garage side door, and it led into a basement room that was his bar. So picture a giant bar. I mean, it's a huge bar, dude. It goes like L-shape, goes both ways. And, uh, you can see the pool in the backyard, but the pool was like slime green. I was gonna say, yeah, like stuff floating in it that shouldn't be there, you know what I mean? The buoy that's been in there for 42 years, no one cleans it. It's just one of those.

On the—

on the— in the bar, there's like, uh, like one of those machines that holds cold drinks that has no drinks in it, but it's running, like it's vibrating the floors. You know, the bar top has mail on it. You ever seen those people that get like— they get like Reader's Digest and they have 740, uh, episode, whatever they call them, like brochures of them on, uh, on their counter? Mail. All of his mail.

He's in—

this guy is mid-60s. All of his mail he's ever opened, that he's ever gotten his whole life, unopened, stacked on the bar. And I do the appointment in that room on this bar.

Wow.

Start talking. It's a mortgage protection lead, dude. Go through the process. Hey, what do you need? Blah blah. He's like, I don't— I mean, I don't know if I die, I don't know, who cares? Who had— like, just one of the— he just didn't care, dude. And I'm like— so I, I asked the question, and I'll let you teach it, but I asked the question and he goes, oh yeah. And he turns around, bro, and he goes through this stack. He, he, he— it's not there. He gets up and he runs to the other room, like runs, dude, runs to what I now know is the kitchen because I went to that after and it had more mail in it. He runs to the kitchen, comes back, hands me an envelope and goes, I'm retiring in 3 weeks, can you tell me what to do with this? Yeah, I open it, dude, $500-something grand.

Wow.

I was like, um, yeah, you're a pool cleaner. Swear to God, dude. Yeah, I'm like, bro. So, um, let's, let's, let's dive in a little bit.

I mean, you just never know. You, you can't, you can't discriminate against people. Just got to ask that question because, you know, 4-1-2.

You worked at Delta as like a maintenance guy or something. He had been saving it for, you know, he'd been there like 40 years, whatever it was. He was literally retiring in 3 weeks, dude. Within, you know, I had to wait till he retired to do the rollover thing, but within like 6 weeks, bro, it was like 30-something grand. I was like, whoa. Yeah, you know, um, so I guess you, you, you take it where you want, dude, whether you want to get in some training stuff or maybe the like why annuity. Yeah, maybe first.

Yeah, absolutely. I'll just go, you know, go really high level, you know, and, um, but you know, what is an annuity anyway? You know, it's like, yeah What's the definition? And so I think when, for me anyway, hearing all these different trainings, you know, going, you're reading about them and everything, trying to find, you know, the best way to present these to my clients and actually close them early on. There's one sentence that really cleared things up for me because I overcomplicated them early on. And I don't know where I was, I don't even know who said it, but somebody said that a fixed index annuity is just an interest-bearing deposit with an insurance company. Company, and all the rest of it are all the bells and whistles. But at its core, it's an interest-bearing deposit with insurance company. So, so that, for some reason, that sounds just kind of like just got all the, the, the, the complexity out of it.

Isn't that more like a CD is at the bank?

Isn't that like— that's all it is. And so, so our clients are, you know, typically, you know, we're looking for, you know, people who have IRAs, 401s, and there's other ways you can fund them too, a lot of other ones. But, but that's probably where 80% of our business comes in. But what we do is, you know, because it's an interest-bearing deposit with an insurance company, it's not invested into anything, it can't lose any money. And so our products are built off a foundation of safety. And if we're looking at people like our clientele are not people who are in their 20s, 30s, or even 40s. They're people that are, that have retirement in their eyesight, or they are retired, you know. And so if you're, if you're thinking of what that age group is, and somebody who's gearing up to retire. And I know the markets are doing great right now. I know the markets are at an all-time high right now. I get that. But we're talking about retirement, not tomorrow, right? Yeah. And we can never gauge or guess when the market is going to take a turn. And so if we look at who our clientele are, is there, you know, people in their 50s, 60s, and even 70s. Um, they were around in 2008. They know what happened when the market collapsed and corrected. And lost 49%. They felt that, and they know what it felt like for— to lose half, essentially half the retirement. And it took till mid-2013, or 6 and a half years later, for it to get back to its original amount.

Now, the funny part about working 6 years for free—

what's that?

It's like working 6 years for free.

100%. You're just— you're just hoping to get— it gets— and, and you don't know that it's going to. That's just it. So you have that fear. Yeah, so when they're 30 years old, it stunk to lose half their money. If they were 60 years old, now they're complete— their, their retirement, their quality of life changes completely. And so now we're talking to them at 60, they remember what it was like 17 years ago, and a lot of them act like it happened yesterday, and a lot of them act like they didn't get all their money back, which they did, you know. But it's that 6 and a half years that, that you don't have that time to wait for to come back And especially if you are utilizing it, if you're taking withdrawals, if you're taking withdrawals out of a declining asset, then it'll probably never get back to its original amount. And so the fastest way to burn through your retirement is to be in a declining market and start having to take withdrawals, you know. And so an annuity is just an interest-bearing deposit with an insurance company. And so we have it protected against something like that happen. Like if we are— we roll some funds into to an account and the market loses 30, 40, 50%, which, you know, 50% is pretty high, but if it loses, they don't, they don't lose any money at all. Yeah, nothing at all.

Yeah.

And so there's only 3 ways your money can go. It can go up, it can go down, or it can go over. We eliminate the down. So in a down market, our accounts slide right over. They don't lose anything at all, but we do participate in the gains. And so these products have really evolved even over the last 10 years to accumulate a pretty substantial amount of interest when the markets are going up. And so we can provide our clients with that peace of mind where they never have to worry about losing any money. They don't have to worry about the market volatility. But when the markets do go up, get up, they get a fair amount of interest return or applied to their accounts.

Yeah.

And so, sick. When we're talking to people every single day about selling insurance and we ask them what we call is the golden question, you ask them, you know, what life insurance you currently have in place right now And then with the follow-up question, it's so important. It's like, okay, what else do you have that would act like life insurance, that would be transferable upon your death? Do you have any IRAs, 401s, stocks, bonds, any annuities, anything like that? And the funny part about it is, if we're having this conversation about selling them insurance, a lot of people want to tell you how much they have. Oh, I've got this in a 401, or I've got this in an IRA. They want to show you they don't need your product because you're trying to sell them insurance. Yeah, and so that's how we uncover the funds. And then once, you know, doing the financial inventory, once we take the information down, we finish what we're there for, whether it's final expense, IULs, traditional life insurance. We finish up there, then afterwards, you know, it's like, hey John, in regards to this $127,000 that you've got in, in this IRA, how much of this can you afford to lose if the market were to take a turn?

It's so easy.

And then they tell you nothing. Um, because 10,000 people in the United States are retiring every single day. 5,300 of those people have already said, I don't have enough money to last till I pass, right? If you don't already have enough money to last you a lifetime, you can't afford to lose any of it.

Yeah.

And so when we have a product that can eliminate those losses, we'll eliminate that fear right away. And plus you're going to gain interest when the markets do go up. And plus we have products with bonuses that's going to give you a jump start from where you're currently at right now. And plus, our, our products have little or no fees involved, so you're paying less when you pay a broker. What more do you want out of your retirement than what the product that we have? Yep.

So sick, dude. I remember I literally— and I said it earlier, but I'll reiterate the importance of— if you didn't grasp it, write it down. Literally pause, rewind, go listen to it again, attend the trainings we're going to do. The importance of that question to uncover it. One, it makes it so easy. If you said—

if—

and I literally took a yellow sticky note and put it on my dash and wrote golden question.

Yep.

So every time before walking into any house— and again, today you're all doing telesales— literally go and pop it on your laptop or whatever the heck you do your calls on, or your cell phone, whatever it is. If, if, if you— if you get— I don't know, let's just say you asked that 10 times this week. The average agent asked that question 10 times the right way, which was really simple. How many do you think would give them— how many clients do you think would give them something other than zero?

6.

So 6 out of 10 will have something. Yeah, more than the $0. Yeah. All right, if we ask those 6 or 7 the second question, hey, of that X amount you have, how much of this can you afford to lose? How many, how many are gonna say anything other than I can't afford to lose any of it.

Every one of them. Everyone will say I can't nothing, because when they can or can't, they don't want to, you know?

Correct.

Yeah, it's just—

it's so simple to get people to go like, I'm here and I need your product. And you're not doing in a slimy way that's like you're throwing up on them. You're just uncovering. Yeah, you don't— I had a guy come up to me at the meeting we were at last week, and he's like, I stop right there and I forget about the insurance and I start focusing on annuities and I'm not, I'm not having any success. Yeah, I'm like, you think? Yeah, yeah, I would say this too, to reiterate something you said a minute ago. Over half of the annuities I sold, I did not sell them insurance.

100%.

I think it was like 65% of them or something like that. I did not sell them insurance.

Yeah, and, and if you know you're not going to sell it, you know, here's the thing about being good at sales is understanding your client, putting your client, your client's needs before your own. And so when something's not going to happen, you say, hey John, I get it that this product's not right for you, but in regards to your $127,000 you've got in your 401k, how much of that could you afford to lose if the market were— and just transition, but agree with them and then transition. And, and yeah, it's just knowing when you can't sell something, not to force it. And then start a new conversation.

Yeah, I love it, dude. Um, should we get into what to do next? Because if, if so, I'm gonna— I think I'm gonna— I think I'm gonna give them a little preview of how we're gonna help.

Yeah, let me— what I want to do, just give me 2 minutes to—

you do you, this is your show, bro.

Like, kind of what you started on earlier is, is like the guy that you had that was going to retire in 3 weeks.

Yeah.

And the reason why we're so needed to our clients right now is because with fixed index annuities, like I said, you, you only need your life insurance license to sell it, which means that only we have it. So their financial advisor doesn't have it, their bank doesn't have it, their friend down the street doesn't, doesn't have access to it either. Only we do. And so when you have a product that's as strong as ours for retirees, um, we want to get that word out the best we can because an advisor, you know, they're great people. A lot of my friends are financial advisors. They have great products. They're great for what we call the accumulation phase, is when people are accumulating their retirement. They're not— their products are not great for the distribution phase, is when people are starting to take those withdrawals. That's where we are. And the reason why is because if you, you talk to somebody and they talk about, oh, you know, diversifying your portfolio, well, what does that mean and why do you do it? You diversify because you want to limit your risk in some areas, but you still want to grow in others. And so as people get older, they use the rule of 100. So I'll use 70 years old. At 70 years old, they say that you should have 70% of your funds invested into conservative things and the other 30% in equities, right?

Got it.

Okay, so the conservative side, they're not going to lose that much. They still lose, but they don't lose that much. Yeah, but when you limit the amount you can lose, you limit the amount you can grow. Okay, on the other side, we want to grow this side. So when you have the ability to grow, you have the same ability to lose. And so that's what a diversified portfolio is, is how much you have in conservative, how much do you have in growth, and you match that up based off of the risk tolerance. We have a product that is 100% safe against loss, so we don't lose anything at all. And we have 100% of it grows in the market growth. So we have a product that's even stronger than what the advisor is trying to do based off of the tools that they have accessible to them.

What about all the negative things about it? Like you don't have access, you can't— you know what I mean? Like all the— like, and, and touch on both if you can, because I know you lose your keys thing really quick. Like people want to fight the advisor, and you, you mentioned it briefly, the accumulation, the two stages, but like kind of touch on the things maybe the advisor is going to say are negative and how to, how to, how to handle that properly in the moment where the guy's like, I got an— I got a guy.

Yep.

You know what I mean?

So in— I wanted to, when I first started presenting these to clients, I wanted to know, you know, not just what was on the, the flyer, not just what was on the training. I want to know what the consumers thought. What was the— what was I going to come again, come across as far as objections go? Yeah, and so I found the most negative person that I know, you know, most cantankerous, negative, doesn't have a good word to say about anybody. And I'm like, Dad, what are your thoughts on annuities? And he ran through the list of them. You have hidden fees, they keep your money, there's no growth, when you die they get all your money. And so I got the list of everything that I was going to come across, and I'm like, okay, let me look into this. And so So one by one, I overcame. Dude, I'm sorry.

You know how you just roll through it like no biggie? I didn't just call up my dad.

I grew up— I moved 3 times and his name was Grumpy Bob everywhere we went. And I didn't, I didn't tell anybody. They just knew.

I've never heard you say that.

Yeah, so I'm sorry, but I kind of had an idea.

I heard nothing you said after that, but they did, so I'm good.

All right.

Oh Lord.

So I knew all the negative things I'd have to overcome when meeting with clients. Okay, let's look into this. Does the insurance company really keep the money? No, they don't. Are there any hidden fees? No, there's, there's some product with zero fees whatsoever, and we can show that in the guaranteed section of the illustration. Um, is the money locked up? Do you not have access to it? So I, I've learned that all these things were false. And so when I do my presentations, you know, I, I address those things throughout because I'm assuming that with the word annuity, there's a lot of negative connotations because there's so many different types of annuities out there. And as far as the advisors go, I don't fight with advisors. I do think they're great people. And when somebody has a relationship with somebody, I'm not trying to destroy that. I just let them know that they just don't have this product. And where they're at right now, you can look at somebody's statements and see that, okay, you've done great. Oh, we've done great this year. We grew by 36%. I'm like, that's awesome, but you're 72 years old. If your account grew by 30-something percent right now, it could lose by that by next— if the market turns. I'm not saying that the sky is falling, this or that, but what if it were to turn? And then sometimes when I look at their statements, I can show them their ticker symbols and what they're invested into. And I don't have to be an advisor to do this because Google works just good, and legally I can use Google. I'll Google a ticker symbol from an account they have money invested in and I'll show them the performance and go back to 2008. I'm like, yeah, this fund lost 58% in 2008. Ah, yeah, I know you've done great right now, but how would it feel if that happened to you again at this point in your life?

Yep. Even if they weren't in it then necessarily, that particular fund.

Exactly.

Yeah, you can show the history of that fund that it can— the other thing that I was thinking of too, the way you do it on the statement where it shows the gains. Yeah, remember what you were telling me the other day? Yeah, with the—

if you look at the gains, the top of the header says unrealized, which is another word for not your money. It's not your money until you roll it out. That's just paper. Our gains are realized gains. So when the money's applied to the account, regardless of what happens next day, you can't lose it. It's there for you.

Yeah, yeah, I, I like how No, no, please go.

No, I was going to say this, like, when I meet with clients, you know, anything that sounds good to be— too good to be true is— if, you know, we're going to make sure you don't lose any money, we're going to give you a bonus that's going to give you a jump start, we're going to lower your fees and we're still going to give an average rate of return of X amount per year, you know, that sounds too good to be true. And I'd say anything that sounds too good to be true is— these products are not for everybody because first and foremost you have to pass suitability. So we have somebody in suitability that takes a look at it, make sure it's the right product for your situation, it meets your goals. It's not meant for people who, who like the excitement of day trading and seeing their accounts fluctuate, gain or lose, on a daily basis, because nothing's going to happen from day 1 to day 365 because the interest is applied on an annual basis, not a daily basis. And it's not meant for people that want to, to put money in, take it out, put money in, take it out, or need to withdraw more than 10% on an annual basis. So outside of those people it's good for just about everybody else. And so it's not meant for people that, that, that need more than 10% of their, their, their assets. It's not meant for people that like to see that fluctuations. But if you like the set it and forget it and not have to worry about turning on TV and seeing the ticker symbols and seeing that red up there and, oh my God, how much money did I just lose today? You know, if, if that makes you anxious, then this is a great product for you to look at.

And that's a ton of people, dude. I don't I don't like my money and stuff. No, I'm not a— I'm not a market guy, dude. I don't— I like having my stuff paid for in the peace of not wonder. I can't handle the— I made 80, but I made 80, I made 80 bucks, I made 8,000. Like, I remember being even my 20s, dude, if I made 80 bucks a day in the market, I was fired up. I lose 72 the next day, I lose my mind. Like, yeah, I couldn't handle it, bro.

Yep.

I'm not a— I don't— I don't like that stress.

In, in the— our clientele who are looking at retiring or retired, your biggest asset, financial asset, is your earning power. So when people retire, they lose their earnings or they lose their biggest assets. So what they have there is what they have to live off of. And so that's not something you should gamble with. It's not something that you should leave on the table for too long and risk losing either 10, 20, 30% of it. Yeah, I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but if you look at the history of the market It happens every now and again. The last two big ones were 43% and 49%, and both of them took 6.5 years to get back. So 30 years old doesn't impact you that much, just stinks to lose half your money. 60, 70 years old, we don't have that time.

Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, dude. I like, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna reference back the— to help people understand in the life side that don't see this space and they fear the the advisor. It really clicked for me back in the day when I understood there are two different buckets, and you explained it really well— the accumulation versus decumulation stage, whatever. But I always— I looked at it very similar to when we struggled early on selling life insurance, and they're like, I already got life insurance, but we— or they got it at work or whatever they got, you know. We used to struggle with— a lot of y'all selling now struggle if someone already has something and you went out to sell them. And when I learned that, one, they already had that before I got there— not necessarily apply here— but when I learned to go, oh, I assume that's for your income replacement, right?

Yeah.

Everyone said yes. I'm like, oh yeah, great. Well, this is to take care of the mortgage, this is take care of the final expenses, this makes sense why I'm here. You have that, not this.

Yeah.

And this is the same concept. It's like, cool, great, you did that over there, but what are you doing over here?

Yeah, this is, you know what I mean?

And it's, it's— I wasn't trying to replay— and a lot of agents are trying to beat the work insurance or beat the policy they got 12 years ago, or the, you know, the, the, the low, uh, accident-only thing they got from the bank, or, you know what I'm saying? It's like, that's not the strategy when you're selling life insurance. It's put it in a bucket over here, let's deal with this bucket. Yeah, yeah, this is the same thing.

It's so similar, and especially because you know, when we talk about brokers, you don't need to know their job. You need to know yours a little bit. That's just it. You need to know what they're invested in and all this other stuff. And, and you just need to know the strength of the product that we have. Because when, when I get calls from someone saying, okay, what's your— what's the highest rate of return I can get? And I tell them that if that's your focus, this product isn't probably right for you because we're built off a foundation of safety. Yeah, okay, we're not going to get in a race with equities. Our clientele are more savers than investors. Yeah, we do get a really good rate of return, and the great part about it is our interest is always compounding on the previous year's amount. We don't spend any time recovering after losses, so the gains could be pretty substantial. But if you want to talk about, you know, maximizing gains, that's getting into a race with equities and investments. That's not our deal. We want the people who are savers, the people that are that don't want to lose the money but still get a fair return.

Yeah, I've seen those charts too, dude, where it shows like the ups and downs of the market and this going steady. And it's like sometimes it comes out above depending on the year you run it and all that stuff. But I didn't really— I didn't love to use that a ton because now I'm competing against it, and I didn't— I didn't want the— I didn't— I didn't— I— but it is actually true that a lot of times, because you don't have the downside, a lot of times these suckers do outpace them over time.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the perfect example is if you look at year from August of 2021 till the end of 2022, okay, markets lost whatever it was, 22, 24, depending on what you're in, 24%, right?

Yeah.

So you talk to a lot of people and, and they're like, well, I don't want— you know, I'm doing great right now, you know, 2023 was a great year. I'm like, all right, compare where you're at now to compare to July of 2021. Because it did do great over the last year, but it was recovering from the losses from the previous year and a half.

Yeah.

And so, so when you don't have those losses and your gains are compounding on your original amount, that's a great way to consistently grow your retirement.

Yeah. What was that example you gave me the other day? The dude who had like an obnoxious amount of interest, the 2 years later it was like some obnoxious amount. So remember the one?

Yeah, I do remember because it was just couple weeks ago, so, or a couple months ago. Yeah, he, he, we rolled over $563,000, and with a bonus and with 2 years of interest, he's at $790,000 now. So just under $800,000 locked in baseline. That's the lowest he'll go now. So we went from— it was 40%. So he went from, from $563,000. And the funny part about that dude is that was a face-to-face meeting because the local guy His wife set the appointment. He wouldn't come out of the kitchen. He wouldn't come to the living room.

No way.

And, uh, yeah. And so, so I was sitting there and, you know, I just said— and, uh, his name was James— hey, James. I said, I want to go home, um, but I can't go home till you sit with me for 5 minutes. So let's knock this out and then I can go on my way and you can do your thing. And so he sat with me and then I just slowly gained his interest, gained his interest. We rolled 563. He got a pretty decent-sized bonus and he got a lot of interest. So now At $563,000, you know, it could have went either way in a volatile market. You know, the markets are growing right now, so I'm not trying to, you know, say that they're not. Um, but now he's got a baseline of $790,000, almost $800,000 there now, you know, and that's going to continue to, to grow. And so that's the kind of changes that we can make, you know.

And it's so sick, dude.

And that's a realized gain that's there for good. And now I, I texted them on the first year that he got interest, and I said, uh, just saw what you had applied to your account. That's a good year right there. And he's like, thank you. Again, so thankful. Thank you so much, you know. And so It's pretty cool when you can have the confidence in your, your products that they're going to help your clients out and give them peace of mind.

I love it, dude. That's so sick. Um, cool. So before we get into whatever the hell you want to talk about next, because I'm gonna let you drive it, um, for those that want more, John and I are going to help, um, so this is something we've done in our agency for a long time. We, we've, we've teased it a little bit, but One of the things that, you know, we're both good at very different things. And just, I'm just going to tell them quite transparently, I was like, I get a lot of requests due to help agents. I don't want to help people. And I, um, there's some people out in the industry that help in different ways. And I'm like, how can I help people with annuities? I can help write them, and you would, you do it. So I'm like, I know you help agents write annuities, you help them with the first couple they do a split obviously to compensate you for your time, but during it, the process, the point of it is to teach them how to be self-sufficient very quickly. And I'm like, dude, I've sold enough where I can do that. I got a lot going on, but why not? Again, I, I, I'm good. I, I'll never turn away revenue. I'm good either way, but I— why not? So I decide I'm going to start doing it, and I reached out to John, and I'm like, yo, can you, can you— I need a refresher. It's been a minute. Um, I don't— mostly on the tech side. Again, I know how to do it, I know the concept, how to sell it, but I'm like, I don't know where the buttons are anymore. I'm like, I'm thinking of doing this. And he goes through his whole thing and he's like, yeah, I got you, bro. Teaches me everything. And at the end I'm like, why don't we just do this together? Yeah, why don't we just help people together? Like, I'm really good at the pieces I'm good at, he's really good at the pieces he's good at. We've both done this inside the agency, so why don't we bring it to people outside the agency? Or if you're in it, whatever, we don't care. We just want to help people win. So again, JohnWetmore.com/annuity. We're going to literally, we're going to have some trainings coming up, very specific, outside of this podcast. If you catch the podcast after the dates of the ones I'm going to say here, because this will continue to be viewed, just again, go to the annuity website and you'll get the current ones. And always on my website, the events page, I always have up to date. But we're going to literally we've got a— we're gonna, we're gonna launch an annuity boot camp that we're gonna help people with. Get on, teach people how to sell these things. And if you want help, like, hey, I, I'm— we're gonna give the training away. You can have the training. You can steal everything we say. You can go sell your own annuities. We don't care. If you're like, I still need help, John loves to hold hands. So if you want it—

I'm playing a sweaty palm hold hand holder.

If you still want help, we're going to help you, and we're going to— again, JohnWetmore.com, you can apply if you're like, hey, I need help anyway, I have an annuity ready, I have a client, I'm willing to go get some if you just will walk me through it. We're going to literally walk you through it.

We're—

John, and, and I'll let you add any details you want, but we'll literally get on the phone, on a Zoom with your client, with you. You can watch everything, you can watch the buttons, you can see the delivery, you can see the close, you can see every piece of the process. He'll answer questions for you, he'll walk you through it. Yes, you're going to split— Apollo split commissions. It is what it is. We're going to literally teach you how to do it. Um, so if you're interested in that, just click on the link, let us know. If you just want to steal the training, just get on the Annuity Boot Camp and steal it if you want to do it on your own. We don't care because I'm always going to give away value. But some people just want another level of help, dude. And, um, we've seen massive success with this. We've seen managers who don't know how to or want to teach it send their agents That way we can get their team more volume, their team more profitable. It actually helps them sell more of the primary product that they focus on, yeah, whatever that might be. Even some of y'all sell health stuff and Medicare stuff, but you have your life license. You, you— this is a very easy, um, uh, cross-sale to make, you know what I mean? And, and again, we're going to be here to help this. The upcoming ones we have, I'm gonna give the dates and let you say whatever you want. Again, if you're watching this after the dates Just go to the link. But right now we're recording this—

what's today?

December 20th. Um, I don't know when it's launching, to be honest. I think right after the first, but, uh, January 8th, 2 PM Eastern. I have just my generic— I always do it, a virtual mastermind. John's going to be on. We're going to be going over some trainings briefly on this. We're going to do both together. Our first actual annuity boot camp is January 21st, 3 PM Eastern. I think you decided you want to do them every 2 weeks, right?

I think so.

Do some every, every couple weeks.

Yeah.

Um, so again, always johnwetmore.com/events. You can see everything we're doing. But johnwetmore.com/annuity, if you have interest, you want to sign up, you want to do— just fill it out and I guess you'll call them. Is that how you're going to set it up? Yeah, you just reach out, call the agent, figure out whatever you need help with. Um, so we're going to do that, dude. Um, I, I love, I love that we get to do this. It's going to be a lot of fun. So anything you want to add there, or do you want to get into anything else on the annuity side? Please do.

No, I think that we need to, I mean, just to touch on, you know, these are great products for our clients because they're very unique to the financial world, and we're the only people that have them. And so there's a lot of clients that I meet with that their comment at the end is, why isn't everyone doing that? This. Yeah, that's our goal, is, is to get a lot more people exposed to this, because your clients are not aware that these products exist. Your clients are not aware that they have something that we don't have to worry about market volatility or losing money or outliving their money. And so, so there's so many people out there that are looking and want something like this. They just don't know that it exists. And if you're selling life insurance, you have your life license, you have a license to present these to your clients. So when you have a product that is, that is needed out there, that's wanted out there, and you can provide it to them, and you know, the money that you make, the commissions that we make are really, really good. I don't lead with that because I think we should be, you know, focused on the clients. It's great for the clients, but the money that you can generate is life-changing with these. Um, and, and, and the whole process, and, and what I've done with people before is like, you just uncover money, whether even if it's, you know, a client you're talking to and you can cover money that way by asking the golden question. Or we have a lot of younger people in the, in the industry now that are like, I'm too young, nobody's gonna have faith in me. Once you know what you're talking about, they'll have the faith in you. It doesn't matter what your age is. And a great way to, to, to gain that confidence is to look at, you know, your surroundings. You know, we sell life insurance to our family members. We can sell annuities to our family members as well too. And so it's a great way if you're young, look at your parents and say, hey, you know Mom, Dad, I want to get familiar with these products. You have a, you know, 401k that we can look at. I want to compare to what our products are now and see what you think. Um, if you're really young, look at your grandparents, you know. If you're like my age, look at your own 401k. Look at, you know, look at something like that. Not saying that you have to write in here or close anything. It's that first exposure to see a presentation and a comparison, um, that will give you that confidence. And once you have that confidence, then you start uncovering the money just about everywhere, and it really will change your life. I mean, I, I worked with somebody a couple weeks ago. We just closed our first one, and, and he couldn't— he's going along the way, so he doesn't know what the process is. And then he got paid $13,750, and he's like in shock. He's like, for that, I got paid this? I'm like, yeah, let's do it again.

Watching you do it.

Yeah, yeah, for watching. That was his house. That's what he got, $13,700. So that's what he got. He's in shock over it. And so I think that if you really want to grow a business and use your license to, to the fullest extent, just start uncovering money. Reach out to me, we'll, we'll, we'll put an illustration together, we'll go over a presentation. If you don't have clients, talk to your family members, and that's a great way to get started. And again, that's what builds your confidence, because the whole thing is about confidence. And that's why we keep the presentation so simple is because it's that easy to— it's just that much easier to gain that confidence to, to relate to your clients, to present, and, and, and write.

How many does it typically take that you work— how many do you work on with people typically before they're like, oh, I got 2, 2, 2, 2 days?

The way I do it is, is the first one I do the whole thing. I'll call the clients, I'll do the fact-finding, get all their information, put the illustration together, Um, I'll write the application and then we just do a 50/50 split on it. Okay, that's what I do. Second time, depending on what you've picked up, um, then, you know, sometimes we'll do another split. Sometimes it's 25% because you feel enough confidence where you can do the presentation and do a little bit more of the work. By the third time, I just look at myself as like a resource for life. Now you're on your own. Now you know how to get through the application. Now you know how to to do the presentation. Now you just might need to ask me some questions, which I'm, I'm totally okay with, you know. I just want to be a resource and help you out. And so typically it's after the second one that they're up and running on their own and just need, you know, a little bit of some, some questions being answered.

That's why I love doing this with you, dude. The thought of expanding this out is like, I know a lot of people that, that do this— not a lot of people, I know 2 people in the space that do it. And, um, you know I do know a lot of people that sell Anutis in the space really well, and if they're not getting paid on that particular transaction, they will not answer questions for anyone. Yeah, it drives me mental, dude. Yeah, you know, so it's like— to— and again, I, dude, I answer people all day every day for— and again, certainly we, we have some, some, some stuff where we monetize, but my goal is to—

like, I have a lot of people right now that are actually training others and they're getting splits on those too. So the whole thing is to help as many people as we can.

Yeah, yep, yeah. So this is gonna be a fun journey, dude. We're out, you know, my mission is to help as many people possible get paid, dude, and it always just works out for me. That's just— it just works out, you know what I mean?

Funny how that works.

Yeah, dude, it's, it's wild. Um, and this, this is just another part of the journey that we're gonna, we're gonna have fun with and, um, and explore. So on these, um, boot camps, we're gonna go through illustrations, we're gonna give you examples, we're gonna literally go through this entire process. And again, if you want some help directly closing some deals, just, just fill out the form, hit us up, and, uh, and we'll connect with you and, and walk you through the process. And if you're not contracted with the companies, either call whoever you work with and get contracted with, and, and I don't know, we'll probably share it offline which companies you like to use. Um, and then if you— if they don't have it or you want— certainly we can help you. And again, there's, there's not a massive For managers, to your point, there's not a massive override necessarily, which makes some people not want to write it. Yeah, they do add up, certainly, but it, it retains— it retains a lot of people. So we have a lot of—

it's not a huge override product, but it's good for agent retention and eliminating agent debt.

So yeah, yeah, so a lot of people send their agents because they don't want to learn it, they don't care about the product, but it's like, it does keep them in business. Yeah. In a much better way. So anything you want to add, dude, before— because I know we're an hour, which I'm good with. We can talk as long as you want. And, and we're going to do these annuity boot camps and trainings coming up, so we'll dive in deeper there.

I think, I think it's good. I think it's just start— I mean, here's the thing about it, is you start asking that question, the golden question: what else do you have that would act like life insurance, that would be transferable upon your death? That's the first step, okay? You start asking that question. I know if you— I mean, if you're not doing it now, it's, it's It's awkward at first, but once you do something that's awkward several times, it becomes natural. And once it becomes natural, becomes habit. And if you can get to that habit where it's, it's asking every house, you'll uncover so much money and create so many opportunities and, and, and, and be able to capitalize on a lot of those. It just starts with asking that question and then transitioning over to, um, would you have 10 minutes to learn how to take all the volatility out of your, out of your account where you wouldn't suffer any losses? And And there's different word tracks being used for that, but it's just uncovering the money at first and it will help you with the rest.

Yeah, I used to— the first, I don't know how many I closed, whatever number, it was a decent amount of them. I would be like, after that thing, I'm like, yeah, I have an annuity expert at my office. Yeah, he's going to put some stuff together for you and I'll just— I'll get it to you. Like, I didn't even pretend that I knew what I was doing.

It's like, and just say, hey, 10 minutes, you can go over this all you can. And it's all providing information. That's all it is. I've got somebody that can show you how to do this or teach you how to do this, or, you know, whatever it might be. Yeah.

And I'll end with a lot of people that teach this get obnoxiously technical. And dude, when I watch you do this thing, it's like you remove all the complexity of showing a client how to utilize this product in the right way for them without them— their brain just melting with information. It's really— it's really clean, and I, I just— I love the way you deliver it. So I appreciate, appreciate you continuing to do what you're doing, bro.

I'm a simpleton.

We get along very well.

We have.

Yeah, we do, my man. I appreciate it.

Thanks for—

thanks for getting on, dude. If y'all need anything, let us know. And we'll see you at the next one.