I Taught Insurance Agents How To Make $10,000 PER WEEK

those of us that go at a high level, we eventually realize that leads equals money, and the work is the easy part, to be honest, because it's just reps. It's literally just like, who gives a shit what they say?

Let's just kind of start a lot. I don't know how many people know you, so we'll just assume people— most people don't. I know you, you know, and then let's just kind of go into it. And I've got a couple things after you give the backstory and some context. Bring us up to speed, and then we'll, we'll rock and roll, um, with it. And let me make sure I'm recording this one also. Yes, it is. See, it is recording.

Okay, take it, dude. Well, I appreciate you. On backstory, huh?

Yes, sir.

Well, I mean, dude, it's always funny. It's like, um, when you look backwards, has some— sometimes when I look at it, it feels like it's been 437 years that I've been doing this. And sometimes it feels like I started like yesterday. Um, but the short version is, I, I, for those that don't know, I got— I've been with FFL since the day they opened the doors. I was actually with the same crew at the previous company, and I was new then.

I was part—

so I started this part-time. Well, the real story is I started to look at the deal part-time. I was an accountant. I was doing accounting work, like crunching numbers. Not a CPA, not doing anything fancy. I was just crunching numbers in an office. And, um, started looking at this as a part-time thing in 2008. It took me till 2000— March of 2010— until I got my license. So it took me almost 2 years to actually get my license. And then I didn't sell my first policy. I quit on the first dial day in 2010, and then I sold my first policy in August of 2012. It's a mutual bond policy, mortgage protection lead. Made like a couple grand, whatever it was. And, uh, I was like, oh shit, So it was a very slow start. I was stubborn. I thought the leads were the problem. I barely worked. I overanalyzed everything and didn't do shit for, I don't know, from 2008 when I first thought about the business till 2012 is when I sold my first policy. And then, to be honest, for the next year and a half, I was probably— let's see, 2012, 2012 to 2013, I was part-time, um, with FFL. And then for the first year, 2014, I was like mediocre at best, $8,000, $10,000, $12,000 a month kind of guy. Um, so whatever that is, 5 years sniffing around, hinting, looking at, playing with, flirting with the business. Um, and then I decided one day that I was just sick and tired of shit. There's a deeper story to it. Some have read the book that I wrote about it, some have heard me talk about it, but I was just tired, dude. This point I was probably Let's see, this was 2015. I was probably 30— I was 38. 5 kids. My youngest was a couple years old, my oldest was off at college, and I was still having to clip coupons and shit to buy groceries, and I was tired of it. Um, been divorced, lost a couple houses, had cars taken away, filed bankruptcy. I've been through some shit. And, um, 2015, dude, I was tired of watching all the other people win. And, uh, I decided to just take a different approach, man, and be the dude that stopped thinking about things. Not in a way that I didn't try to get better at my craft, but I stopped doing like, what if, and then filling in the rest of that sentence with everything negative and boohoo and just like I couldn't do it. And I just, dude, I was watching so many people speak on stages and winning trips and making all this jack, and I was like, I want to be one of them. And so I had a conversations with a couple of dudes that were really doing well. And thankfully one was blunt enough for me and my personality. And, um, when he looked at my numbers, cause I am a numbers guy, I just didn't know the numbers I should be running. I knew what mine were and dude asked me, um, what the issue was. And I'm like, dude, I'm trying to get to get to your kind of volume. He was doing like $40,000, $50,000 a month. And I didn't know how. I'm like, dude, I don't even know how to get $20K, bro. And when he asked me my numbers and how many appointments I was running, how many leads I was buying, the short story is he laughed in my face and he asked why I expected his result with my work ethic. And I sat down and I looked at my numbers and I looked at myself in the face and I wrote some shit down on paper and I decided, damn, that's the first person that fucking told me the truth. 4 years into the business. Thank God. And with that said, I just changed everything I did. And it's the premise of the whole book I read, which is like, just let me go at this where I just do significantly more of this than everyone else around me. Because everyone around me was doing shit too. I didn't have a lot of people around me killing it. And so I just decided I was going to be a high activity, outwork people kind of guy. Show up first, stay last, run more appointments than everyone, and just see what happened at the end of the year. And stop overanalyzing things and stop trying to just get better at 1,700 different things at once. And long story short, from March till— that happened in March of 2015— the rest of that year I issued like $460-something grand on my own pen. And, you know, never went backwards, thankfully. I was 15, 16, did a little, little bit less, but around $400 grand again, and just started building, dude, like crazy. And when I started selling that much insurance, especially having been around the industry for a little while, um, it became attractive to people, you know. And then I think it gave me the right— the biggest— I mean, I went from making no fucking money to making $40K a month, like depositing, not like bullshit, like issued, pre-submitted premium stuff you see on the internet. Like, I was, I was making some money. I was like, shit, you know. And, and when I started looking at why, the only major difference was how much I was— how many leads I was buying and how many people I was seeing. Um, and during that journey, man, because I was also studying my craft, I got really fucking good, you know. I learned it. I learned how to sell different clientele in different situations. I learned how to underwrite really well. I learned how to keep things on the books. I learned how to stay super profitable. Um, I learned how to put systems together, and I got really good at when new people started, not letting them go down the path I went down. And I knew the path of overanalytical, take forever to do everything, you know, just a slow start. What's that? What's that saying? Shit, everybody says it. I don't know the one that you probably know it, Arturo, man, where you get the analytical thing where you could just get stuck.

Analysis paralysis.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I knew that path because I was that path. I knew the path of limping into leads because I limped into leads. I knew the path of making 42 dials and feeling like everyone hung up on me. Nobody picked up. I called them all and no one answered. I knew that because I was that dude, you know what I mean? And so when people came in like that, I decided I was going to be the, the dude that started telling people the truth right off the rip. And I just started being really honest with people, dude, about what it took activity-wise. I didn't care how good they were. I did not care how articulate they were. I didn't care how knowledgeable they were in the space. I didn't care at all. Um, for me it became, are you willing to work hard and are you willing to be coachable and are you willing to follow a process? That worked for me. I ain't saying it's perfect and I ain't saying it's everybody's path, you know what I mean? But it was my path to success and I'm like, I know how to teach what I did because it wasn't that fucking complicated. And I helped a lot of people, man, recruiting. Just everyday people, bro, with jobs and dreams and desires to do big things in life. I helped a lot of people make a shitload of money in this space. Um, I get way more credit than I deserve today because I'm just one guy, but I did sort of get the ball rolling, and I did go out of my way to teach people what worked for me. And fortunately for me, dude, I had a lot of good people in my group that saw the vision too, and they kind of took it and ran with it. And we have a lot of big agencies now that, that do some incredible things that quite frankly, I don't do shit with. They're so good, you know. Um, so it's been a neat journey, and then, um, I'm having fun with it. So it's been a fun industry, and I love so many pieces of it. So just here to help, dude. I'll kind of leave it there. If people have questions, you want me to touch on something simple, I mean, I could— I'm old, bro, I could tell a story. Yeah, those are the stories.

Well, you know me, I always come prepared. I got a list of always whenever I'm rolling into something. Um, so a couple topics to touch on, and they kind of all go together. I guess the first one is the sense of urgency. When did you— when did you get that? When did you realize that that was the thing that sounds like that you really needed to lock in? Because there's two forms of this, right? It's a sense of urgency to get started, and then it's a sense of urgency once you start making $40,000 a month and people start asking you to come on podcasts, right? And now you're doing the tour, or, you know, you're leading trainings on Zoom, and, you know, You know, remember Michael Jordan in The Last Dance, he's talking about like, he was doing that, and then he let the endorsements go because it was affecting his game. And so there's two levels of success, right? You have to really— there's two levels of urgency that you have to focus on is the desperation part when you need to make the money. But then the other urgency when you don't really need to make the extra dollars, when you can leave a little bit early, when you— when people start patting you on the back, right, you start getting put on the flyers. And so, you know, that's the next level for some people in this room, is, is they're starting to see some success, right? They got a little bit of money, you know, they're out of that, and they think that their, their motivation is— it was there, but that really was desperation in the beginning, right? So how do you keep that?

Yeah, dude, I think I'm gonna start with the second one first because it's easier, because that's where I live every day today. Um, dude, I stay scared, bro. Um, which I don't know if that's healthy necessarily, but it's the truth, you know what I mean? Like, I just— dude, I grew up with nothing for so long, and then for a hot second I had what I thought was money, and that went away really quick in the mortgage industry. That's when I had all the shit show, the, you know, losing the houses and stuff. And, um, you know, I went through a really— I went through a tough stage of life, bro. You know, we were like— for those that don't know, for me to get on the phones my first 2 years, dude, I used to have to drink to get on the phone. I was so anxious about picking up the fucking phone and dialing leads. I have some vodka, I'd loosen up, and I'd have fun with the leads. And that's like— sadly, that was the beginning, but that's where I was at. What really kicked in for me, dude, and this is the part I struggle with, Arturo, is like, I don't know how to give this piece to people because the trigger for me was one event one day. It happened like literally, dude, I got a piece of mail in the fucking— I got a piece of mail, I opened it up and I read it and it wasn't fucking the news I wanted. It had to do with money and I was frustrated about money. And $1,000 a month was the, was the issue at the time. And the guy who was mentoring me was in the other room, was on a dial day in the office, and I literally was, was like flipping my fucking desk pissed. And he walked in And after he let me explain why I was like acting like I was 7 and in one of— or in one of those rooms that you like pay to go beat the shit out of furniture to express yourself, you know, those little lock-in places they got. It's kind of how I felt. And he comes in, I explained it, and he's like, can I ask you a question? I was like, yeah, dude. He goes, you've been doing this business for a long time. And at this point I wasn't that good, but I'd been in the business for a couple years, years. He goes, you've been doing this for a really long time, dude. They're good. Are you really losing your ever-loving mind over what could be solved with one application a month? And he walked out of my office and I was like, fuck, another one. Just like one sentence, same as earlier, like, why do you expect my result with your work ethic? That was a different dude. He hit me with that one sentence. Killer Mike hit me with the second one and I was like, it's a good fucking point, bro. I don't know why. And that had happened right after the conversation with Mark. This was all within like a couple weeks, both of these conversations. It was tied around FFL's conference, actually. The first conversation was that conference. This one was right when we got back and I was dialing. And, um, yeah, dude, I think the combination, man, I literally lost my shit, bro. And then I was like, I was so mad that I was Then I got mad. I was mad, which is the weirdest thing to say, um, because I did know the business and I had sold a decent amount of insurance. And again, you— I think if everybody looks at their schedule, I think they know if they're really working hard or not. I knew when I was late to the office and when I wasn't. I knew when I was lazy and when I wasn't. I knew when my follow-up sucked and when it didn't, you know what I mean? And so I just decided that day, dude, that I, I never wanted to live life where I had to worry about $1,000 again, ever. I just didn't want to worry about it ever again in my life. And I changed everything I do with my— did from that point forward with my schedule. So that, that, you know, I have fears. My point is, initially it was a trigger day. Today it's a fear that I don't want to go back to that feeling. I didn't— I don't— I don't like that fucking feeling. I don't like the feeling of no improvement. I don't like the— I don't like how it feels to not have forward progress anymore. I mean, not to be a dick, but being part of FFL, we've grown every year for 13 straight years, dude. We've had a couple flat kind of years, but for the most part, you grow that long, you don't want to go the other way, you know. So I don't know, man, I think for me it's just keeping it real, and I'm just a dude, and I've seen people with way more money lose everything, to be real, you know. And I'm like, I just, I don't want to lose shit, and there's a lot of people rely on me and I think I like setting an example as well, Arturo, you know. So as I started doing it in podcasts and the attention and all the things, I'm like, dude, I got to play a role here too. So not only do I got to make a living for my family, people are looking at me to be able to go like, can you balance all this shit? Is it possible? So I had to create— now I copied it off other people. It's not like I fucking invented any of this shit, but that thought process of can I sell at a high level? Can I build at a high level? Can I have my family? Can I have all the pieces in life? Does it actually work, you know? And so for me, I had to be that person too, Arturo, because I had a lot of eyeballs on me. And it's really easy, um, when you start making some money to let off the gas. But when at that stage, especially early in building, where most agents struggle selling and being profitable every month, dude, if you can't show them right in front of their face how easy it is, not as many people are going to follow you, bro. So through all the adversities and all the ups and downs and all the shit, and even making the money, I had to keep pushing to prove a point and to run a business and put more money into it. You know, you start making good money and people are like, why do you still work? I'm like, I don't know. That's one of the dumbest questions I get on a regular basis. I don't fucking understand it. I have people ask me most weeks. I'm like, bro, I don't, I don't, I don't know anymore. I don't know how to answer that one anymore. I used to try to. So yeah, dude, I don't know, man.

I like living good.

I like my kids living good. And I don't know, man. I'm gonna be a good example, bro.

Yeah, that's so good, man. I think the next question that I have for you is, you know, you said you'd get better later and you wrote the book, you know, Do—

you know, what is it?

Do More Now. Do more now, right? And so a lot of it just came down to stripping away all the stuff and just like keeping it simple. So how are you able to just like keep the business really simple to be able to grow and to scale?

Yeah, I think for me, dude, it became this revelation, which sounds like a stupid word to say, but I feel like it happens to a lot of us.

Okay, I think you're good, bro.

Thank you. You like You ever see a guy that's been around a while, dude, and he still lacks confidence on whether or not he can make money in the space? You know what I mean, Arturo? Like, they're sold, they're $40K a month guy, and all of a sudden they can't get out of fucking bed in the morning. Yeah, they can't get out of the—

they can't.

Yeah, it's just like— so for me, dude, I realized at some point, and usually with those people there's always some, there's always some noise right? There's a stressor. It's something with cash flow, it's something with debt, it's something with family, it's something with— there's always noise that causes that decline, right? And so for me, dude, I, I learned that the analytical part hurt me early, but bro, when I tell you that's been the most helpful part of my career by far, is using the analytical side to figure out how to accomplish more. And for me, more importantly, with no emotion. The emotion is what fucked me up and what messes most people up. The emotional roller coaster of the game, right? Today we're on a high, we sell 4 wraps, $7,200. Tomorrow we get 17 no-shows in a row. Like, that's hard for some people, you know. We get no leads for 3 days, then all of a sudden we get 72 leads and we can't keep up and we're frustrated. Whatever the scenario is, you know. And I was a very emotional dude, and the people frustrate me. I'm not a very, like, I'm not a naturally— I know how to maneuver and communicate with people. But if I could live my whole life without speaking to a crowd of people or groups of people or in just strangers, I would live my whole life happy without engaging with a lot of people. I'm okay without a lot of people. And so the communication part was frustrating, especially when you learn they bullshit with you, like with the objections and I want to think about it. And you know what I mean? Like they want to take care of their family. I need to take care of my family. We both want the same effing thing, but there's this weird game in the middle where you pretend you don't want it and I have to control my emotions and pretend it's a numbers game. There's like— that's a thing that happens. And dude, I learned that I gained this confidence that no matter what, I have no doubt in my mind, bro, if I pick up the phone for a long enough period of time, I'm going to make a couple grand. I just fucking know it. With everything I got, I know it's going to happen, you know, and I'll, I'll tell you something now that I don't think you know this unless you paid really close attention to my stories on social. Almost no one knows this because I don't really announce much. But like, I've had a couple people bitch about telesales recently because I'm building a new base shop, right? So I'm like, let's build direct. I didn't really do telesales. We dicked around and did a few of them back in the day, but for the most part, the technology wasn't there and it was mostly paper apps. And I'm mostly in-home especially. And so I have people whine about stuff like spam likely calls and what CRM to use and all these, all the moving parts that everybody bitches about today. And I'm like, you know, if you just get this thing and you call people, if you call enough people every day, you will make money in this space. And I had enough people go, telesales, you don't know, spam, the new updates, iOS, it doesn't work, blah blah. And I'm like, fuck you, dude. But no one wants to hear that. But that's my personality in my head, you know? So I was like, yo, give me some leads. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this telesales. I'm gonna figure it out. So I buy, I buy leads on ILC. Like, just wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on.

The context though, you got to give the context. The all the success that you did before, yeah, was in the field, right?

Because I remember when you first started coming to my events, you because I didn't do this the way y'all do it, right? You did it in concept and apply it, right?

And so then you took on the challenge to do the telesales. You got to give that context because I remember that.

Yeah. Okay. It's just like, I don't know, dude, this, I, this can't be that fucking hard. There's still people who want insurance and they're still the same clientele and they're still middle-income America. And fine, yours says spam likely. You know what we had to deal with in the field, bro? F off. Like, we both have stuff. And that's what I always say is like, you have stuff, I have stuff. This, this, this time in the industry is whatever it is. You know how many times the industry has evolved since I've been in the space? Oh my God. You know, I remember, dude, I remember a stage where the industry was convinced telesales and Facebook leads would never work.

Dude, you know how much backlash I got for teaching that back in 2019 about it? Yes.

No one thought it was going to work.

No.

So I went back in the field in 2019 for like 3 weeks just for the same thing I'm saying now. And my team tripled in 2019 because that— we were flat in 2018. I went back in the field to show Facebook leads worked, issued like $25,000, $20-something grand in a couple of weeks. And our team blew up that year because we started printing money on Facebook leads. So this, this time I'm building this new base shop. They don't know anyone in the agency. They've been around. They hear the stories. They don't know shit. To be honest, I can't teach shit because I haven't touched an e-app, dude. I don't know where the buttons are. I don't know how you use insurance toolkits. I don't know how y'all do anything today. I have no fucking clue. But I do know how to deal with the people and the agency and the systems and the growth. I just don't know how to log into AmeriCo's website. Does it make sense? Like, I don't have to do that piece. So I just, I don't know, dude, a few weeks ago, I just, I kept toying with the idea and then my team and Amanda's like, you should do it. You should do it. And so we fixed my schedule up and I've been on the phone for like 2 weeks, dude, just around all the other shit I do. And I think I looked earlier already in October, I'm at like $11K issued, not like some like fucking issued already. And it's the 8th, you know, I think I issued, I don't know, I wasn't— what was it, Amanda, last month? Like in a week and a half, like 10 grand. I'm at like $20 grand in fucking 2 and a half weeks. And I literally have no idea what I'm doing, dude. You know, I don't know where people— the leads, I'm literally ILC leads, some— that's it. I testing some inbound call thing that's, you know, everyone thinks it's free type stuff, but I'm— you're— my point is I'm making sales on all of them, you know. And so the people that are saying— for me, this is like, uh, why not? Why not go do it? Why not show people that things can be done, you know? And I'm a big, like, I like to prove people wrong. That drives me a lot. And when people start saying like, I don't know, dude, you just don't do this. You don't know anymore what it's like. And I'm like, I'm not trying to be an asshole. Do you see our group? We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people printing money.

Yeah. For example, like how much did you guys do last month? Your agency?

I'm looking at on another screen just because I have Gateway up over here. We're at $158,489,817.81 for the year. Wherever the hell that is. Yes, hold on, hold on, hold on. I mean, if I unplug this, will that all work? I don't know how this works. Well, let me see if I can turn the screen to you. Let's see if I can get it. Hold on, hold on.

Oh wow, there's $158,489,817.81. Okay, that's a lot of life insurance.

Like, new contraption on my desk, so I have like 3 screens, like 5 minutes before the call, right?

Well, so to that point, you know, my next question, though, the next thing I was going to ask you into that, and you already went into that, is like blaming the leads, right? Like the mindset of giving the power to the other people or the leads or the source or whatever it is.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

We're giving, we're giving up the thing to this other thing, right?

So, you know, for those of you follow that have followed me for a while, you know, I've, I've helped build this agency up to over $200 million in paid annual premium per year. We have over 5,000 agents a year that sell, and I am rebuilding. We're building a new base shop, helping people build big agencies, get to multi-seven figures in income, or producers that want to, that want to just sell and get to a multi-six-figure sales career. Hit me up. I'm hiring direct. I'm looking to train and mentor winners that want to work their ass off and build something dope. Click on the link below, or you can go to johnwetmore.com/join and put in your application. We'll see if I'd be interested in working with you, DM me, hit me up, whatever you like. That's the control in the numbers game part for me, you know what I mean? Like, dude, I don't have to know where anything is, and I know I can get on and I can make— and dude, I'm old school, bro. Look, I'm like dial tracker shit.

You still got that old-ass dial tracker you printed off of PDF that people say got an email in 2017, bro?

Yes, I still— it's on a piece of paper. It's just, it's just, I just call enough, dude. And like, that's how many appointments I've had in the last 2 days. So I always go like this, and I, I'm running a whole fucking company and consulting and doing 19 things. That's why I texted you the other day. Does that make sense? That was that. That's why that text went to you. I was like, shit, I need a break. But yeah, dude, I don't know. I don't know what that thing— but this, this is a real— my point is, this is a really easy business. And I think if you understand what I get is the business works. You ever have someone start and they're like, I'll give it a shot, see if it works? I'm like, you want to see if the insurance industry works? That's one of the dumbest statements that's said, and it's one of the worst statements that's received and not addressed and believed. That's my— yes, correct. So like, all of you that aren't selling $40K a month If you're confused on what the problem is, like Shawn Mike used to tell us, bro, go get you a mirror and stare at it till you figure it out.

But because—

so it's just numbers, dude.

What's it— what's the thing though? Like, what's the thing that it's like people are blaming the leads though?

It's like, you know, it's like, oh, this lead, or because the lead gives them poor feedback or they don't pick up. Right? The, the result isn't what they wished. The expectations, right? From an agent, what do we want? It's like a kid playing baseball, dude. They get up to bat. Maddox is 13 years old playing baseball. He gets up to bat. What does he want?

Down the middle.

Huh?

He wants to pitch right down the middle.

For the result. Every single time.

He wants to hit and get on base.

He wants a home run, bro. Why would he not want a home run every time? So then when they don't get one, they're disappointed, you know? And I think, dude, for people, man, it's like they think because they get a lead they're supposed to make a sale. That ain't how this works, you know what I mean? And so it's like, I think getting people to understand the, the game of it, the strategy of it, the approach of it. Um, I was watching a girl dial the other day and she sells a decent amount of insurance. 100% of the time she got an objection on the phone and/or they hung up on her. She went every time, dude. And she sells $30K a month. I was like, hey, do you— can I ask you a question? She's like, yeah. I go, do you know you do that after every negative response from a client? She's like, yeah, it's just frustrating. I go, why is it frustrating? Did anyone tell you they would ever go away? She was like, no. I said, what did I tell you would happen? It will happen for the rest of time. I was like, yes. And we can get better, yes, but we'll never eliminate all the objections. You're never going to eliminate— everyone wants— and I know, I love you, Arturo, so please don't— everyone wants the high-quality lead. Every lead can't be high quality.

Magical baby, the magical lead, the magical, the next—

not a thing.

Lead pack.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are there better? Yes, I got it. I'm aware. I understand how it works. But the approach is like the mentality, dude. People's own thought process and mindset towards this thing cripple them, bro. You know, and so I think to your point, when you give up that control to the person on the other end, you lose. And so for me, I approach this thing very much like a game. It's a numbers game, one, to get in front of enough people. But then when I have, like, what's the word, like, the friction with the client on the other end, whatever it might be— they're mad, they're upset, they're confused, they didn't know, they're telling you they didn't do it, uh, they're giving you think about it, they want to call their daughter, they want to talk to their doctor, their dog has to go to the vet, they have to go in the other room and get their bank account number, and they hang up on you and pretend they didn't. All of those things that happen, you know, my job, my mental approach to that is this is like, this is like I'm on defense playing football and the offense is running different routes and my job is to defend that route no matter what he runs. That's my job. I can't bitch about it. I can, or the coach can put me on the sideline. He might be faster than me. Well, I better figure out something else. I better figure something out, or I better lift more, I better run more, I better jump more, I better prepare more, I better hit him off the line more, I better do something to address it, you know. And for me, I think too many people don't pay attention to their strategy day in and day out. They aren't looking at every conversation and going, damn, I fucked that one up royally. Damn, I was weak there. Oh, dude, I let that guy let me get all emotional. I just acted like a complete bitch. That certainly isn't good. I missed that sale because he couldn't afford it. Maybe you could go, man, I did a really bad job identifying and building value to that guy, man. Let me try a better next one. You know, I mean, it's like, so the approach for me is when I get the rub, whether it's in a client or an agent, I want to figure out my strategy on how to approach it. So the outcome is at least different next time. It doesn't mean I have to make a sale, but maybe I can stop them from being angry. Maybe when someone's mad, I can keep them on the phone. Maybe I can take someone from not remembering they did it to, oh shit, I did do it. That's right, I did. And booking an appointment. I just got to move the ball down the field a little bit more each time. I'm not looking for perfection, but I am looking for constant micro-improvement on every piece of what I do. You know, every part of a presentation, the way I close, the words I use, the terminology I use. And I think that's what ends up separating people long term, bro. You know, it's really easy to sell a few policies and then, like, um, I, I see your hand, Trey. Um, if it, like, for instance, a guy like him that sells a shit ton of insurance, it's really easy to get into a, into a place where you skip the little things that you do so well naturally that you'll just, like, overlook It's easy to skip a Y. You know how to read laydowns a little bit. Last night, who's that?

Who is that?

I can't find it.

I got—

that's going to land. Go ahead.

Yeah, so I, I think the guys that keep it long term, man, they start fine-tuning like, like, like a sport, you know? And you start, you start realizing— for me, the big, the big thing, dude, I always say this, man, I've said it for as long as I can remember, since 2015, really. Um, when I finally owned that I was the fucking problem, I didn't realize how quickly I was going to realize that I was also then the solution. It was like an instant, like the minute I fucking accepted it, dude, all of a sudden everything changed in my world. I was like, dude, All these people are winning. It's got to be me. It has to be me. There's too many of them, you know? And I don't think I'm that fucking good, dude. I think I'm— I don't think I'm that good a sales guy. I just think I outwork fucking most people. I don't think I'm that good on the phone. I don't think I have that good a presentation. I don't— I think I'm trash at overcoming objections. It's number off to me. But bro, I'll get enough people on the phone and I know how to have a good conversation to control people, guide people, keep them within the rails. And not let them go off the deep end. And I know how to control my emotions like crazy, you know. So I don't know, dude, I, I, I think, I think I'm still trying to improve. And I think that if, if you're, if you're not daily trying to improve, I think you're crazy, man, because I supposedly know what I'm doing. I'm still trying to get better, you know. So, Trey, if you got a question, dude, I don't know if that was for me or Arturo, but you welcome.

Yeah, no, it was definitely for you because I, I'm big on, you know, Like, and I think this is just anybody that's in the sales industry, right? Like, and we kind of talked about this on your guest too, but like, talk about how even right now for you, you're doing, your organization is doing $200 million, but like the instant gratification was not something that you're chasing, nor is it something that you really care for. It's more like you're trying to play the long-term game and you talked about, you know, keeping and doing all the small things like People overlook that shit all the time. Like, yeah, you got to have the small habits in order to sustain, like, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, if we were to do a poll right now and say, who is— who wants a $200 million agency? Everybody and their grandma will raise their hand right now. But how do we know that we have the right foundation in line or the small habits in line that you had to, you know, put your blood, sweat, and tears into in order to make something like this happen? Like, maybe touch on something like that.

Hopefully I'm not, you know, scaring you wrong, Arturo or John, but I think it's good, dude.

Um, oh, this, this call is for y'all, bro. I'm, I'm just the, the guy to assist in having him come on here. So the questions that you got, you know, I, I— that's not many people has done what he does, that's why I asked him to come on.

Uh, you know what's funny is like I told my guy Reese this morning, man, I wish— I, I do and I don't wish this— I said I wish I could have like a camera with me and some AI to like follow me around all day right now to see how all the dots connect and the way I think and the way things happen when you do things the right way, you know what I mean? It's like some of the apps I'm writing and some of the reasons I'm getting the apps are doing things that most people just wouldn't fucking do. And it's not hard, but I'm not doing anything earth-shattering, dude. Most of the— I bet I've written— what is it? I think I'm— I think I've written 10 or 12 policies. I bet if the number's 12, 8 or 9 of them have involved replacements on the phone. And dude, I hear a lot of agents talk about how hard that is. I'm like, I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's really easy to pick up the phone and call the other insurance carrier with them on 3-way and control the call and find out what they got and take some time to take care of a client. And you mean like, so for me, dude, it's like, I, I, one of the things that I walk around as I'm, as I'm doing this dialing, because keep in mind I'm just kind of playing with it. But as I was walking around the house this morning, I went— I dropped my son off to school at like 7:15 for Bible study. I had an 8 o'clock haircut and I had a 10 o'clock doctor's appointment. And then I didn't have my first appointment booked till 12. Right. So I get to my house and I'm like, you know, I'm going to go eat breakfast. I ain't eat breakfast yet. I'm going to say what's up to the wife. I'm going to call Amanda. I have like an hour and 15 minutes. And in my head, Trey, I was like, yo, you know how many phone calls you can make an hour and 15 minutes? You can probably get 12 people to pick up. You probably book 5 or 6 appointments. You probably take an hour or two. Fuck, me eating breakfast and calling Amanda and saying hi to Steph might cost me $2,000. Fuck. I had to like, I had to tell myself, dude, it's okay. Like, calm the fuck down. Just be on the phone at 12. Like, so I'm in a weird balance.

But that's the thing that separates people where they're like so addicted to the task and the media things that they're caught up in it. Conscious of how much time costs them relative to— because you always talk about dollar, like, uh, the dollar per dollar, right? So you got it down, broken down to that. But the caveat, because I know your story, that I want to back up, because you talked about this in Orlando, out of 6,000 agents, what was the average amount of premium per case that people were writing to for you to do the $18 or whatever million you did in that one month in Orlando? It's like the premium wasn't anything incredible. It was a small amount.

No, no, no, no. I mean, our average premium is $1,200, right? One in one bucket.

Yes.

If I take the top people, I mean, we have— I always do crazy numbers too, where it's like, if I had my sheet up, I'd pull it up live. That's what I did in, in when we were in Florida that time.

Yeah.

Um, it's, it's obnoxious numbers. I'm gonna make them up. I think last time I looked at it, I looked at how many agents did we have under $5,000 for the month. Month, and it was like 1,000 of them, but it equaled like $3 or $4 million in premium for the month. I mean, it was a massive number.

Well, because that breaks people's brain, because they're always just out here looking for the next them.

Yeah. So for me, that's one of the issues. That's like a bad lead, right? We go bad lead, bad agent, right? I can, I can figure out how to make money on a bad lead. I can figure it out. I can door knock them, I can call again, I can give them to another agent. Dude, I have a stack of leads here. One of these stacks right here. One of these stacks right here. These are all the people that I quoted that I didn't close this week. Right? I'm going to take— I know these people need insurance. They just didn't like me. I'm going to literally take these leads, give all the information I took to another agent and go, go see if they like you. Here's their health. Here's their pricing. Here's what they need. Here's their family. Here's the beneficiary. Here's the why. Here you go. I will figure out how to make more money off these leads, even if it's not me. Does that make sense? And so when I go to agency side, I don't need every agent to be me. God, I don't want every agent to be me. I'm a pain in the ass. You're a pain in the ass. Do you want 100 of you? Any of you? I promise you, you know. And so for me, I got to this point where I'm like, I would get so frustrated that people didn't kill it. And I would get so mad that people didn't sell $20K, $30K, $40K, whatever it was, whatever our number was at the time. Because there was a time that $20K sounded like it was good money. And that clearly you aren't, you ain't making a ton. So anyway, my point is, is like, you can still grow an agency without people killing it. And I, I've all the, the analogy I've always used for that is the whole Chick-fil-A thing is like, if I, if I always say, if I want to go across the country, and me and you want to open Chick-fil-A franchises all across the country, want to open 200 of them, 200 franchises. But the only people we want to run to work in our franchises are people that also want to open franchises. That's the only employees we want, only people who want to be franchise owners. How well would that operation run? It would suck ass, dude, because you'd have no one to like sweep the floors and do the fries and do the milkshakes and all the stuff. You know what I mean? You only got guys here. And so even when you run any business, you have to learn to work with different levels of people. You have to learn how to control and work with and make sure the person who just does the shakes for 6 hours a week, that they show up and they're on the schedule and they take care of clients. But you also have to learn how to take care of the guy who one day wants to run the region because he sees potential in his manager who he gets along with.

He—

right. You got to run a valid Chick-fil-A. You got to learn how to work with all types of people. To sell it.

Hold on, John. John, you just dropped the bar. I hadn't— I've never heard you say that, and I probably listened to hundreds of hours of your stuff intently, but that's a bar right there that's going to set somebody free because everybody's looking for the next them. And like, for me, I'm mentally unemployable, so having another person like me running in my organization, it probably isn't going to work. So I get what you're saying.

I hate each other, to be honest.

So me and Jack used to work in the service industry, and we used to always say, it's like, man, I felt bad for such and such getting the shitty section, right?

Yeah.

And somebody has to— some— that somebody has to take that section.

That's someone's role, dude.

Somebody has to take out the trash. Somebody has to do back cash at McDonald's. Somebody's got to be a person who does the smoothies. That's how the organization works. Everybody's got their role and everybody else doesn't want the same thing you want to. So you have to be a leader that can communicate with people on every level. right? And become a better communicator to motivate people within their interest, right? Because if you're telling the person that doesn't really value money that much, they just want to make a little bit as a part-time mom, that they need to do more, that's not what they're doing it for. And you're trying to do that, they're going to go somewhere else, right?

And it's the same with clients, right? So that's the one example. Then you go with client side, and it's like, I mean, dude, you got a 22-year-old dude who bought a $112,000 house down the street from Mommy, you don't speak to him the same way as you speak to the CEO that you sit with that has 2 kids and makes $150K a year. And you don't speak to either one of them the same way you speak to the 75-year-old widow that just lost her husband 3 months ago. You know what I mean? It's like you, you handle things differently. Um, and so for me, dude, I just had to learn how to— instead of blaming the agent for their lack of success, I had to learn how to deal with that agent, keep them here, keep them learn how to, learn how to get people to— I got really good, dude, at like getting people to— what's a nice way to say, like, shit or get off the pot kind of thing? I, I got really good at getting people to either do it or don't complain if you don't do it. And so for me, the ones that don't do it, if they don't bother me, I don't care that they don't sell a lot. If you don't recruit a lot and you're on my team and you don't bitch about recruiting, I don't care at all that you don't recruit. Where I used to drive me crazy, right? Because that's learning how to work with that person. Like you said, it's, it's the equivalent of someone who you're trying to make the guy who does the milkshakes want to run the region and he doesn't want to run the fucking region. He just wants to get high, come in, serve milkshakes, go home and get high again. And you have agents that you are trying to work with that you think is going to be the next VP and they don't give a shit. They just want to do the milkshakes every day. And we get frustrated with that agent. I'm like, why are we getting frustrated? Why don't you learn how to work the right way with that agent? Well, they complain a lot. I hear you. That means you aren't setting the right expectations for them. Somehow you've made it okay in their head to complain is the way out. That's how I look at it anyway. So, Trey, that's— those are the little things for me. If a lead didn't go the way I wanted it to, I go, what did I do wrong? What can I adjust? An agent didn't work out, I go, what did I fuck up? What didn't I adjust? And then as you start, you mentioned something earlier, dude, like, what do people want with this thing? And I want everybody just like me. I'm like, I don't care how good you are. I don't give a shit how good you are. Eventually you are not going to beat the numbers. Eventually you're going to have a douchebag who owes you debt. Eventually you're going to have a manager who you don't get along with. Eventually you're going to have a top producer that wants to quit. Eventually you're going to have the bottom tier. You're going to have 14 people on the bottom. Who sell no insurance and don't buy leads and complain. Eventually you're gonna get, dude, two agents cross-line that fight with each other. Eventually you're gonna get a manager that tries to recruit from someone over here from his buddy when he shouldn't. Eventually you're gonna get this shit. You're gonna have to learn how to deal with it all. And if you can't learn how to control this stuff, oh, you— I don't know how to control it all, dude, and I know how to do it. And so, Trey, some part of this thing too in our tour is like, you know how a lot of y'all don't know what's next and you don't know how to get where you want to go and you feel like, shit, I don't— I don't— I feel like I'm in a dark closet all the time, right? We don't know how to get to that next phase. And 14 years in and I still feel like that. I still don't know how to get to the next level. I don't— I haven't figured it out yet, you know. Um, so for me, what I do know is the little things that I do every day, which I have my own things, and there's nothing earth-shattering. A million people talk about the little things you can do every day. Um, so I'll, I'll skip some of the details, and they're not really that important, but it's like focusing on the right thing and making sure that every day I don't let 2 days turn into 3 days turn into 4 days turn into 5 days of doing things the wrong way, you know. So I try to catch it soon, dude, and I try to create habits that, um allowing me to accomplish what I want in life for the people I want around me to live and shit like that, dude. So I don't know, man, this is a big education for me as well. It's a big journey. And so I just, I don't know, man, I try to do my best to adapt and learn at all phases because—

yes, yes, yes. I got a couple more because, you know, I was going to question. So two things, cash flow management, and I know you talked about this at the event too, was agents not having enough for lead spin. And you kind of went through this analogy at— in Orlando of like, I'm like, why do they not have enough for the leads? If you need leads to make money, yeah, why is this happening, right? And you kind of broke it down. I can't remember because it was in Orlando, but you just rattled that off like this, that, and this, and then this is at the end. I can't remember how you broke it down, but you kind of explained that like the lead spin was the last thing on on the, on the priorities.

Oh yeah, I know how this one goes. So again, I always, I always give examples that I think can, can correlate. Um, it's a lot like when a new agent says a client— let's take a final expense appointment, they're on Social Security, they get $1,400 a month, and they tell you they can't afford the $69 a month payment, right? And you go, they were broke, right? And as the agent The reason that we say they're broke is because they have their— whatever I said for income, $1,400, whatever the number is. And then you have the expenses, right? You got their rent, their mortgage, whatever it is, their car payment, their insurance, the kid, whatever they got. Bill 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. And then as weak agents, we go, all right, after you spend all your money, what do you have left? I have $0.17 left. All right, let me see if I can get you a policy for $0.17. Actually, let me make it $0.16. So you have a penny left. And we try to squeeze it in at the bottom after everything's spent. So we go income, expenses, let me take what's left and hope I can slide a policy in there. The guys who sell a lot learn how to build a lot of value. They have an emotional conversation typically, right? And they get to a point where the client naturally shifts the importance of that policy and the need of it. And instead, it's not going to probably be bill one, or bill 2, but I'm pretty confident, dude, that I could get it to bill 3 or 4, right? And then you slide in the insurance premium, something down the bottom will naturally fall off— cigarettes, poker, gambling, just bullshit, right? And so when I take it to the agent that's going to leads, it's a very similar thing in that agents go, all right, I got my money, but now I got to pay this bill, that bill, this bill, that bill, this bill, and then whatever's left I slide into leads. Leads, right? And it doesn't work to sell a lot of insurance from the consumer side. You ain't gonna make a lot of sales if you're always trying to squeeze in every— the littlest you can with what's left over, versus learning how to build value in it. And then on the agent side, when you're purchasing leads, if leads is last, dude, you're in trouble. You know, that's, that's the gas to the car. It's like literally like being empty and being like, you know what, I'm gonna drive to Atlanta first. I'll get gas tonight. You know you're gonna break down on 285 and be screwed. You got no shot.

And you might run into some traffic, so you got to keep at least a half a tank in there because you can come around 285 and end up in a traffic jam for a minute.

I think for here, like, nobody's confused leads, right? But if— what the hard part, that struggle is people know leads— like, everyone's— everyone does know that leads equals money, right? Leads equals money. Without leads, there is no path to money, at least for me. I don't know about y'all. I do know about y'all because y'all lead junkies too, right? Leads equals money. Now what's in the middle? The work no one wants to do. Leads equals money. If I could just trade, if we could just skip the middle, Arturo, and just go go take your leads, put them in the machine over there, and it will spit out money. Would anyone— I don't know— go change their tire before they put leads in the machine if it spit out money with no work? Never. Like, what? How many times can I do it? You know? And so eventually, those of us that go at a high level, we eventually realize that leads equals money And the work is the easy part, to be honest, because it's just reps. It's literally just like, who gives a shit what they say? Who cares? They hung up. Who cares? They said— who cares? They didn't fill it out. Who cares? Wrong number. Who cares? The other agent called them. Who cares? They said 7 people called them today. Who cares? Number disconnected. Who cares? Who gives a shit? What business doesn't have problems, you know what I mean? I was with a guy and I had something to do with trucking the other day and we were talking about this, and his company fucking spilled a truck over and it was all over the interstate. Yo, someone's paying for that. They ain't gonna shut down their trucking company. They're gonna clean— they're gonna call a company, someone's gonna come on the interstate, shut it down, they're gonna clean up the mess, they're gonna tow the truck away, and they're gonna ship more shit tomorrow. You know, and so I, I don't know, dude. I think that this is an easier game than most people make it, make it, make it out to be.

Can I ask a question, John?

Yeah, please.

Yeah.

Um, what up, y'all? So YouTube memberships, we have one now. Right next to the subscribe button, there's a neon white join button. You can't miss it. Subscribe, whatever it says, click the link, get in there. I a ton of coaching, teaching people how to dial, corrections, working on their presentations, working on their mindset. I will coach on theory, but I like coaching real world stuff. And if you join the membership section, you're going to see live coaching where I'm not only helping people, but every once in a while I get in there and dial myself. There's some cool videos coming out, tons of content. All the training videos will be directly on my YouTube channel that's available to members only, super easy to find. So join now if you're interested, click below. See you in there.

What stopped you? Years ago I heard you talking about how you were ready to just throw down, ready to quit. You've been there multiple times, but it was one time you were just ready to quit, ready to go. And I made the mistake of doing that in 2022. Just got back about less than a month ago, finished contracting, went out, went and did some, some adjusting for a carrier for a few years. Ridiculous, stupidest thing I ever did. My question for you is, when you get to that emotional place, when you used to get to that emotional place, like this is internal stuff, how did you, how did you stay?

How did you talk and grow? No problem. All right, you ready?

Love it, man. That's it. That's good.

So I, I also made it mean something else.

John, go ahead and send me that shirt.

I just got a screenshot.

Can I tell you something? Can I tell you, can I tell you something that most people wouldn't tell you today, Colin?

Absolutely, bro.

I wanted to quit this morning twice. And then I went, all right, and I said that to myself. And then I'm gonna make myself— I'm gonna convince myself that this one's more true.

Yeah.

And then I make merch so I can wear it.

So the reason why this is important though Hang on, hang on, hang on. I love this question, Colin. I appreciate you sharing that because that's really dope. And like, for a lot of guys on here, we, we kind of gloss over this stuff, but the internal dialogue that we have, especially as males, if we're way more harder on ourselves than anybody can see— and nobody will say that, but that's just the thing— the high expectations that we have of ourselves to make a mistake, to make the wrong decision, to get it wrong, to feel like need to quit, to be tired, to show any of that. And so the inner game of like, consistency, is you have to remind yourself of who you are consistently. And you get in a funk, and you ruminate, but those things are all in your head. And sometimes you can kind of find the loop and get out and snap out of it yourself. And sometimes you just need to say it, and somebody needs to just say, dude, what are you talking about? Like, dude, you got this. You've done X, Y, and Z. You got leads, you know what I'm saying? You got an opportunity for whatever it is. Like you said, the dude told him, bro, it's just a couple grand. What are we talking about here? And sometimes you just need somebody to say that, which is like, it's gonna be all right. We're not, you know, um, it's not heart surgery. It's a really simple business. So, you know, if you're really feeling like that, take the day off. Plan, and then tomorrow you need to come back ferocious. If it's really getting to you, maybe you do need to go home and reset, but you need to wake up tomorrow and, and take it out on the field. That's the thing, is people let it linger too long.

Sure. Yeah, it's like, um, I always say it's like those cartoons we all watched, you know what I mean? The Devil and the Angel, whatever the hell they do on— you know what I'm talking about, Colin? Where it's like they tell you all the bad shit over here and then over all the good shit over here, and you gotta decide to believe. We all have that every day. We all do it. You think I'm immune to that shit? You think I don't have fuck— you don't think some days I lack confidence?

Yeah, some days I don't want to get out of bed. Now I'm good. Now I just— I worked my butt off back then. That took me a year and a half to get to the point while I was writing 10 grand a week. Yeah, did it for 2 weeks and quit. Yeah, because of a big chargeback— a roll-up, rather. But yeah, just the stupidest thing I ever did.

Yeah, I don't know, that's, that's like being in the NFL and quitting after you threw a pick-six. I mean, like, just walking off the field and quitting fucking football. You know what I mean? So I don't know, dude, I think you just got to pay attention to how you talk to yourself. Certainly. I think you got to pay attention to your belief level and then you got to, you got to look at your willingness to go through shit. If you think you're done eating shit, buckle up, dude. I don't care how much money you make, you ain't done eating shit. All these guys, leaderboards, Instagram, half of it's fake. To be clear, there's a shitload of people that fucking post on Instagram that owe me debt to this day. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know, dude. So when I get in a funk, which is often—

I'm—

I got, I got fucking issues, dude. You know what I mean? And I'm convinced all of you do too. I just don't hear a lot of people talking about it. Um, and so for me, I think it's okay to have issues. I think we're born who we're born, and I think there are struggles in front of all of us. And I think they're going to be— continue to be struggles in front of all of us in all different walks of life. And I think that what's the alternative if you don't try to get through it and you don't try to do the best at it and you don't try to live a good life? Like, what's the op—

what's the—

then what, dude? I've curled up and cried in my life and quit on shit, and I don't like how I feel about myself after. And I've had years and years and years of consequence from doing shit like that. And I hate how it makes me feel. I hate how my children have to live because of it. I hate how my, my, my wife has to live because of it. I hate that I can't employ people because of it. I fucking hate when I'm weak because it trickles to other people. I'm weak often, but I literally have to be like, bro, don't be a fucking bitch, get off your ass and fucking move. I talk to myself like that. It may be unhealthy. I don't know.

Good job done though.

It works.

I'm here. People go like, I want to be like you when I'm older. I'm like, please be careful what you ask for because just be— I'm just telling you, be careful. I know you want money, but there's way more to it, you know. Um, and like you say, more money, more problems. That shit, that shit's real.

They get more complex, more expensive, more logistics.

Yeah, hey, don't think for a minute there ain't people in my agency for sure with 1 million percent certainty that go, he don't do shit, we do all the volume. You're all gonna get that too. I go, dude, I'm just one guy, I'm just trying to do my best out here in life, you know what I mean? I'm in the same business as you guys, and now I have a new group of people I'm trying to help win, and I'm like, fuck, let me get on the phone and show them how it's done because I believe I can do it just like everybody else. And I never sold $100 grand in a month. I never sold more than a couple policies of telesales because again it wasn't available, but not for one second do I not believe I can do it. You're telling me this 19-year-old that just got out— he had recess 6 months ago. There's cats that were in recess last spring selling $60K a month with us, $80K a month with us. Dude, he barely looks like he passed puberty. One cat has like a $400,000 group and y'all don't think you can do something in the space. You want to see if it works, try it out. I just— I'm not that guy. I just don't think anyone's that good, including myself. I listen to myself, dude, and I'm like, I'm— people think I'm way better than I am. I just don't fucking quit. And again, you learn how to say some things, you know, you, you get better. But there ain't been one new word. There's— I promise you, I ain't giving you all one new word that you've never heard before. Mm-hmm.

Good.

All right, John, drop a 7 in the chat if y'all getting some game from John Wetmore for sure. John, I got one last question before we wrap up. Is the, the aha of leveraging social to help grow and then turn that into a system that you allow people to duplicate to help grow your agency.

Yeah, I mean, I think that if you're not— if you're not on social media now, you're talking about the importance of it, correct?

Yes, 100%.

I think if you're not on social media now, you're literally on purpose trying to not grow a company, because there's no one that doesn't know they should be on there. Y'all ain't gonna fucking convince me you don't know this already. I know, you know. So I think for me, Arturo, it's less about talking to people about the importance of it because they all know the importance of it. You know, it's just like the new agent who knows the importance of buying leads, yet they don't do it. It's like, why? Why do you know you should do it and you don't? And then what excuse just came into your mind that you convinced yourself is the reason? Because some of y'all came up with one the second I said it. Because I— and now you're trying to convince yourself that you're right and I'm wrong. And I'm not trying to be right. I'm just saying, who doesn't know that putting your shit on social media improves your business? You know what I mean? Like, hey, Coke, McDonald's, all the companies, they know, they know when they advertise, they do better. You know what I mean? And in today's world, dude, personal branding is what it is. I don't, I don't suspect there's a single person on here confused about it. And there's definitely probably not anybody on here that doesn't consume someone else's shit and generate revenue for them.

Yeah. That's the thing is you have to realize is like, there's an exchange here for, of attention. And you know, it's cost, it's the cost is going one way and it could be going the other way because last time I checked, they give it to you for free so you can use it and post it. They don't, there's no limit of. How many times you can bang on this thing to post. Also, when you do that, little coins come out of it too. Yeah, trust me, I know.

Same thing as selling, dude. People don't do it because they don't— it's this delayed gratification thing you talked about earlier. You start posting on social media, you ain't gonna see shit out of it for a long time. I bet a couple years before you see anything of any significance.

I just got good this year.

Yeah, I don't even think I'm good still, you know what I mean? And we get a fair amount of stuff, but like This is just like the game of insurance for me. I've been posting on social media. I hate social media, bro. I can't— there's— I would throw my phone in the ocean if I could. And so for me, I've been posting on social. I don't know, go look how old my YouTube is, 2017, 2018. I don't know. Um, I just keep posting, and I just know that I'll post more often and more frequently than almost everybody else. I won't hit the Gary Vees of the world, but I promise you, the average insurance agent and the average manager in our space, the average person recruiting, they ain't gonna post as consistently and as long as I will. There's no fucking way. They'll give up too soon. And I know I'm going to outlast the majority, overwhelming majority of people in our space posting. I just know I will. And if you just look at my YouTube, dude, we didn't have shit for following 2 years ago. I'm like, dude, I don't know, we got podcast people watching now. We got millions and millions and millions of views happening. We got people hitting us up. Like, it's wild to watch. I don't even understand it. And I— it's mine, you know? And just your people find you there, you know? And then you, you realize you start impacting people. There's a lot of people that I've taught how to make multiple six figures and sell a shitload of insurance, dude, and I've never spoken to in my life. And every time I go somewhere, people are like, yo, I watched this video of you doing XYZ sale and it taught me how to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that's pretty fun.

Wasn't there like a video you doing like an in-home, in-person, like a mock set type training or something back in the day, dude? You and Mendenhall. I think I've seen two of this. So I remember that when I was— I was— I think I was selling insurance at that time. I remember that, which is crazy.

This one yesterday. Hold on, look at this one. Yes.

Old school, doing in-person.

Yeah, someone sent me that yesterday, bro. They were like, check, I forgot that existed.

Well, the thing now though is because you don't— here's what I learned from my mentor from doing social. He's like, the engagement and the impact that you have from posting on social, most of it is silent. Yeah, you don't know the impact that you're having on people by doing it, and it doesn't come out until later because most of the time people just think you bullshitting in the first place, right? Until you do it consistently long enough, they're like, oh, well, maybe this dude is serious about it. Maybe I should listen to what he, what he says. And then they go back.

Yeah.

Plus you get way more hate than love on social. You get significantly more hate than love on social by far. Um, and then, you know, it's like, to your point, a lot of people don't want to deal with that shit. And it doesn't— there's not like a, I take time to post, I make money. It's like I take time to post, nothing happens for a long time. That video worked. Shit, I forgot I even did that video. Yes, that's what it's like.

Yeah, I didn't even feel like doing that one, but I needed to do it.

It's like finding a $20 in the dryer, or finding a $20 in your winter coat from last, last December when you, when you pull it out this year, you're like, oh shit, look at that. Yeah, that's what it's like, right?

Well, I think Ian got his hand up. All right, what you gonna unmute?

Yes, absolutely. Mr. Wetmore, pleasure to have you on today. Thank you so much for your time and your insights. It's truly an honor. Um, just want to ask you a quick question now that we've shifted this conversation more to like a recruiting-based, um, sort of theme. Uh, so, you know, obviously I'm a smaller agency, we only have about 20, 25 agents, uh, within our organization as of right now. Um, so I just wanted to know, like, developing you know, producers into leaders, right? That's the overall theme of the question I'm gonna ask. So which observable behaviors in new agents most reliably predict long-term leadership potential, and how do you codify that into your recruiting or training processes? Did you read that? No, I typed it out and then I— I was like, that was really legit. I liked it.

Interesting.

Um, yeah, dude, I think for me, um, it's been an interesting journey trying to figure that out, bro, along the way. One of the best things I've learned from my mentor is that leadership is taken, not given. And we as managers, we try to— we tend to try to pick who our next manager is going to be. We tend to go like, all right, can you be leg 1 and can you be leg 2? I heard I need like a starting 5. Can you be my 5? Are y'all my 5? We in? You good to go? All right, let's go. Here's my guys. I got my guys. All right, we're in. And then they don't fucking do anything, you know? So I think for me, it's, it's the developing leaders typically comes from developing myself and then putting myself out there, learning more, experiencing more, selling more, recruiting more, doing more of the things. It's like Do you sell a good bit? I apologize, I don't know if I should. I assume you do if you're on here, but I don't, I don't know how much. Nothing crazy, like maybe 30, 30, 40. You know, I have a team though, so yeah, cool. Yeah, I mean, it's good, which I, I like your words. It's funny, it's very funny in the industry how like now a group of 20 and now selling 30, 40 is like nothing. So I appreciate the humbleness, but if you looked at where you land in the, uh, what do they call that when you go to the doctor, you're in like the certain percentile of licensed insurance agents. Yeah, you know, like you're in the top 1%, right? Yeah, I guess so. That's why I gotta make sure you understand that. Yeah, I got Mr. Johnson's leads now for hopefully— so, you know, hopefully we'll see now. I may do like $100K a month.

We'll see.

Yeah, I'm saying you're doing okay, bro, you know what I mean?

And we're—

the way we speak to ourselves is important. So you are doing well. We want to do more. All good, you know. But for me, I, I learned that the more I develop myself The more I learned how to fix my flaws, the more I learned that, like, the frustration I had with other people got less and less. I gave more people grace. And then for me, dude, I think to answer your question really directly, the one— I forget the word you used. I'm not good with big words, but you used one that threw me off. But I get the context. You know, the overwhelming indicator is for me coachability and doing the shit you say you're gonna do. You know, meaning if you're— if you say I'm gonna work X amount of days or buy X amount of leads, or you know how many people tell me like, Monday, Monday I'm getting my lead spend right, next week's my big week, I'm putting it all in next week, I know I gotta do it next week. Weeks, Mondays, I'm buying all my leads. And then Tuesday, they ain't got no appointments. I'm like, yo, what happened? Oh, chargeback. Next week, it's gonna be next week. I'm gonna be next week. I'm just gonna have to be next week, you know. Um, and I see people that always have a reason why they don't do something they said they would do. I, I tell those people ever so nicely, if you always say you're going to do something and then don't do it, I promise I'm going to quit you before you quit me. I'm going to give up. Because I learned I can't drag people to success. And I used to try to so hard, dude. I used to try my hardest. So for me, the biggest leading indicator is activity and coachability. I like someone with a positive attitude. I like someone who's more grateful than less grateful. You know, those, those few things are really important, man. You know, and I certainly like people that if I got even deeper, that do good, clean, honorable, honorable business. You can be in this business for 5 fucking minutes and you can see an agent do some shady shit. I don't, I don't, I don't really want that guy, you know. Um, so yeah, dude, it's wrapped around a lot of that. I— it shouldn't be hard on me. I'm willing to work hard. I know, but it shouldn't be a fucking like, uh a trigonometry problem for me to solve your issues every day. You know, we're equally 1099 in this deal. You're 1099, I'm 1099. You ain't got to work with me, I ain't got to work with you. I want to make a bunch of money. I want to help people make a bunch of money. If you derail me, I'm out on you, you know. And you can do that when you sell a bunch. It was hard to do that early, you know. So for me, I didn't really know how to do it. I was trying to change people. I was trying— and people have to change, we all have to change— but I was trying to force it on people who didn't want to openly do it. I was guilting people into trying to build. I was making people feel like shit if they didn't recruit, you know what I mean? I'd make people feel like shit if they didn't sell $40 grand. I didn't have to do it that way, you know what I mean? I, I could, I could give them more. I could I could give them more insight. I could make it feel more possible. I could give them, you know, I mean, empower them more. I learned how to do that better. Um, but I think for me, dude, the more I improve and the more I get better and the more I'm attracted— more people are attracted to me, the more I grow, the more my income goes up, the more I live different— people will naturally draw, you know. And then it's really easy, I guess, especially for me, dude. I don't know everybody's situation, but for me I was broke as a joke, and I don't think I'm the smartest. I'm no dummy, but I ain't the smartest dude on the fucking planet. I was 35 and broke as shit, you mean. So it's like, I only got so much, but I'm like, yo, if I can figure this thing out, God bless, I promise you can. But I— you just got to be willing to put in the work I'm willing to put in, because I'll put in an obnoxious amount of work. To accomplish something. Fitness stuff I did this year. And, you know, I just finished— I just finished another big event. It's my last event of the year. I'm so fucking excited. I'm done because I overdo things. I decided I want to start doing like marathons and long-distance shit about a year and a half ago, and I failed one last year and I was mad I failed it. But then I realized I didn't put enough training to do it. So it was really my fault. I blamed the weather while I was out there because it rained and it was cold. So I bitched about that. And then it really was— I was like, I really didn't train enough. So this year I decided to put the whole year to, to doing something really fucking hard. Um, I've done 10 events this year, endurance events like marathon plus hill. If y'all watch my shit, I do crazy shit. I've done 10 of them. I completed 9 of them fully. The only one I didn't finish fully was the one I just finished because I was so burnt out and I fucking messed up my ankle. But this year at 48 I've put like 1,200 miles into training this year, like on my feet, running, jogging, hiking. 1,200 fucking miles in 10 months. I'm not that good a runner. I'm older. I'm not that fast. I ain't gonna finish first or second or third or fourth or fifth. But bro, ain't none of my buddies doing it. Ain't none of y'all fucking doing it. Every time I invite someone, people go, nah, I ain't doing that shit. They ain't willing to put in the work to do what it takes to enter the event I put myself in. And I like being that dude, straight up. I like being that guy, you know. And so that's how it kind of all wraps for me, to answer your question. Understood. Thank you very much, Mr. Wetmore. Pleasure. Oh, also, um, I don't know if I— I don't know if this is okay. Please go ahead.

You're good.

We run like an— I don't know, do you speak to like agencies at all? Um, if I can help you at all, hit me up. Okay, is there a way for me to get in contact with you? Send me a DM on Instagram. Okay, I'll do that. Thank you. I'll answer you too. Remind me your name. It just says AB on here. It's Aion Baker. I am— okay, cool. I'll look out for you. I'll respond to you later. Thank you. Cheers. You got it, bro.

Just do it right now so he, so he won't forget. This is really easy. Just go in and do it right now.

I don't think he's gonna forget.

So you don't forget.

I ain't gonna forget shit. Who the fuck you asking to go forget? Fuck you, bro. I answer all my DMs.

Oh, you do?

I do. It's actually me too.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

99% of the time. Sometimes Reese will send some for me. Yeah, when he's looking for people on the podcast. But people that ask questions, it's actually me that answers.

AB, does that— does that help at all? Did you get— you feel like you got your questions answered?

Yes, absolutely. It was okay.

Perfect.

I was going to ask my DM right now.

See if he's willing to get on. Yeah, I'll hit you up later. I'll get on.

All right, um, so we got Adam Ellis. You got a question? This is probably the last one. If anybody else has a question, raise your hand, but we about to wrap this one up. Adam, you can unmute yourself.

Yeah, I don't know how I ended up on this call, but I'm happy to be here.

Um, I do.

John Wetmore, social from your math email. Uh, that's the total question for you on— what'd you say?

I was joking with Arturo. Sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

Now you get a quick question for you on your topic on, uh, buying leads. You mentioned about, uh, the car, etc. Um, how do you find a balance between taking money off the table and putting more money on the table for the leads? Where do you find that balance pointer. What would you— what are your words on that?

Do you have something specific? You're stuck between leads and something else?

Leads and having future capital expenses in the bank to stop the monkey in the head.

What monkey in the head? What's that mean?

As you were talking about controlling the mind.

Yeah, yeah, I got it.

I like that.

I never heard that terminology. I like it. It is a tough time to be up there, ain't it?

Exactly.

All right. So let's say, how much do you sell right now?

On average, about $10,000 a week.

How much?

About $10,000 a week.

You're issuing—

average between $30,000 to $40,000 issued monthly.

Okay. What are you spending on leads for that?

It's still tight financially. Leads, probably about $3,000 a week on average. I haven't been getting into a whole lot of consistency with it, which is one of my problems. Up and down and up and down my lead spend.

Is he lying to me? No, I'm kidding.

No, I'm like, I'm saying if he's got a problem with cash flow, yeah, holla at me.

So I mean, some of the math ain't mathin'. I mean, $3,000 a week on leads certainly shouldn't equal $20,000 to $30,000 in AP at all. Like, so something's really off there. So I would, I would, I would really address that, number one. Because you don't need $3,000 in lead spend to issue $30,000. Like, you're, you're missing out in a major way somewhere. Um, if you're spending $3,000 a week, I don't understand the question because it doesn't sound like you're afraid to put money in.

I'm not, but I'm putting too much money in. Like, I'm not finding a real jackpot hit on cash. I keep spending money, and then— and I know a big part of it is my consistency because I'll be selling like crazy for a few weeks and then drop out for a few weeks. So it Definitely consistent.

I'm gonna give you directions to the, to the, to the, to the jackpot of cash, to the big pile. You can, you can plug it in ways. You ready? You ready for it? I'm gonna give you the exact directions there, bro. For sure. Yes. With that amount of leads, you can trip over $40K a month. Okay.

To—

you're not gonna find a jackpot on Wednesday in this space. The jackpot is gonna be of when you do it consistently, week in and week out, no matter what's going on in your life, at a really high level of appointment activity. You doing telesales?

Are you—

are you full-time? Yeah, full-time.

Yeah, but I need to— I'm full-time. I need to fix my consistency.

But yeah, yeah, meaning tell us—

I'm full-time with a dialer and a recruiter.

I mean, come on, bro, you should be— you should be weekly, 50 appointments a week minimum. If you're in the insurance space and trying to build an agency, or you're trying to like break records in sales, just hit new levels, new heights, click the link below to apply to my consulting and coaching program that I have out there. I'm helping tons of people get to new levels, get to new income heights, help them build their teams, put systems in place, staffing stuff, recruiting processes, automations. I'm just teaching people how to get to a point where they're selling on their own pen 30, 40, 50 grand a month. And if they're building a team, teaching how to have an effective structure to your insurance agency for the most profitability you can. There is an application process. I'm only looking to work with like high-end people who really want to make big things happen. Couple of recent clients that we've had in the, in the coaching program. One dude as an individual went from selling like $8,000 a month, barely getting by, about to quit the industry, found the book, hit me up direct, started the coaching program, went to $35,000 his first month, has issued like $150,000 in the last 90 days and has changed the trajectory of his career. Working with another agency builder, very first month went from doing like $800,000 a month to almost $1.1 million. We added like 10 or 15% production in, in 30 days and continue to work on things there. So if you're interested, click the link, apply, and if you're a fit, I'll reach out. For the next 18 months, that's where your jackpot sits. You got a dialer and a recruiter and 3 G's a week and you ain't knocking down 50+ appointments a week, you're not doing this business right. And I'm not trying to be offensive. You need to sit with someone now and fix it. There's a fucking problem. There's a major—

I avoid doing appointments because of show rate. So I'm doing telesales. I'm trying to do one-call closes mostly.

I don't care what you do. It's one-call close, booking appointments. They all work. They're different strategies, but they all work. If you're booking appointments, you better double and triple book because 50 to 60, 70% aren't going to show up. So my question is, when you do appointments, are you triple booking them or you just booking one at a time?

I'm dialing myself and my dialer is booking one at a time.

Okay.

Also, what's the time slot frame that you're—

Hold on, hold on. Have you ever heard someone on Telesales Winning say you should double book them?

For sure, but I do a lot of one-sale closes.

Okay, I understand. My point is, you've heard someone say when you book appointments, you should double book them.

Yeah, and I've done that in the past, but then my show ratio was so low that I stopped doing appointments mostly.

Okay. Are you getting enough one-call closes though?

Yeah, I do most of— almost every— honestly, almost anybody I do a presentation for, I'm closing.

That's 90%. You're not— you're not profitable, bro. Which means if everybody you're closing, if everybody you're one-call closing, you're closing. That means you aren't talking to enough people because you're only issuing $20,000 to $30,000.

Absolutely.

And you say, well, man, I have a sales issue. He may have it. He has an appointment.

Yeah, he doesn't have a sales issue. He says he closes everyone he talks to.

So he has an appointment.

$3,000 worth of leads. I can do basic, dude. If he closes everyone he talks to, he's issuing on average $20,000 to $30,000, which usually means— I don't know what it— if I say what it usually means, I'll I might offend someone, but it's like, let's call it 20. What's that? Fucking 4 apps a week.

Mm-hmm.

Fair? 4 apps a week? Okay. If you close almost everyone, if you close almost everyone you speak to to get 4 apps a week, it means you can only talk to 5 or 6 people, which is like 1 sale per day. You're only talking to 5 or 6 people a week.

Yeah. Like 1 or 2 sales a day.

Yeah. You're doing something majorly wrong. You're not on the phone enough. You're not calling enough leads. Someone's not doing their job.

Appointment flow is 100%. That's what it is.

It's about prospecting and presenting, you know? And if, so if you have the, if you have the skill set to close at a high level, and this is really common, dude, for a lot of people, Arturo, where they have the skill set to close, they're really good and really talented there, and they have the willingness to spend money, but quite, and I don't know if this is him, so I'm speaking very broadly, so don't take any offense to this, dude. Um, I just got history. A lot of times those— the grind is tough for the guy that's good at sales and the guy that has the money. The fucking grind of 14 hours straight on the phone, I bet you ain't doing that, bro.

I'm definitely not doing that. I'm getting burnout feelings and stuff like that, but I got to be pushing through. I gotta be putting more time into the grind.

I don't know, dude. Burnout sitting on a chair calling leads. I— that's where it's like that monkey in the middle, dude. It ain't like you're exactly building the railroad to go from the East Coast to the West Coast to, to move steel across the country, you know what I mean? Right? For me, I've learned that when it's like that, there's some— there's something that's not getting you out of bed hungry as fuck to attack your day right now. And I don't know how to give you that. I wish I could give you that. I don't, I don't know how to give you, but you have to find why are you putting so much. It's like, it's almost like you think the 3 grand and the dialer and the recruiter is going to make the business easier. And it can, it can add a nice cherry on top. Um, but if you can't explain the grind and you can't show people you do the grind, bro, get on my Discord. I was the only one on my Discord fucking 10 o'clock Friday night closing a deal. Every one of my agents already fucking in bed, tucking in their kids and curled up in their PJs. So for me, it's—

I got you, I see it.

Yeah, it's about going at it, dude. You know, I want to— I want those 10 endurance events this year. You know what it's like to do 1,200 miles in 10 fucking months on your feet at 48? I had to run every fucking day. Even when I didn't want to, even when it hurt, even when I traveled, even when it's— I just had to keep doing it. And so to get this off the ground, you have to go at such a pace, because when you get the cash flow going, the piece that a lot of y'all miss is when you have a good month, it's great. Then you have a low month, which sucks, but then the chargebacks from the high month come behind the low month also. So not only do you have a low month, you have your natural chargeback from the bigger month. So now your shitty month is even more shittier, right? And then you get in your head about things. Did you say hold on? I said totally, yes, right? So you get in your head on all these things, and then we also forget, not only am I building the current cash flow, the deposits today, dude, you know what the backend money and renewal money is on $60K a fucking month? Months, 10, 11.

No, I really don't.

Oh shit, sit down and do some math, bro. Why not? 20K a month. Think about basic, basic sense. 20K a month, you're getting a 75% advance, right? That means you got at least 5K a month stacking up at the carrier that you just can't touch. It's your money, it's your bank account, they just hold it. So you got 5K a month always fucking piling up, right? And this time next year, you— I mean, like in October, you're getting a little bit of money from January, and then in November you're getting a little bit of money from January and a little bit of money from February and your current money. And then in December, you get a little bit of money from January, right? You get month 12 from January, you get month 11 from February, you get month 10 from March, plus you get your December current money. And then in January you get all that, plus you start getting renewals from the previous January, right? After month 13, now you're getting front-end money, 3 months of back-end money, plus— then you recruit, now you get an override, then you get— which is your advance on the override. Then in 9 more months, then you start getting back-end money on overrides. And then you start getting renewal money on your override. And then at most companies, including ours, you then also get bonus money. So while all of you only see tomorrow's deposit on your commission statement, I'm like, yo, I'm building a fucking machine that's printing money on the back end. And when you go at it really weak, your machine's gonna spit out pennies next year. And mine's gonna spit out hundreds. Hmm. That's why I don't slow down. You're putting yourself at such a disadvantage going slow. You're getting further and further behind guys like Trey and the others killing it. You're just— you're fucking getting so far behind, you know? And I just— I don't want to fall behind, dude. I want to stay ahead and I want to let all the other punks quit. I want to let them fall behind me because I know the reps is going to outdo everybody long term. There's no way long term that The reps aren't going to win. There's no fucking way, you know. And it, it, it does pile together, but you definitely need to speak to someone about activity. And I think you know the answer because you seem like a really smart guy, but 3 G's a week, 12 G's a month should not equal fucking 20, 30 grand. That should be 50, 60, 70, 80, 100 grand all day, every day. And if you don't—

yeah, you just gave me all the answers. Thank you. That just brought— that brought like multiple pieces together in my head, my past and my future.

Love it.

So good. Thank you, Adam. I sent you a personal message too, brother.

Um, oh cool, thank you, bro.

Um, well guys, hopefully this has been valuable. John, um, thanks, man. You always go over and over deliver too. It's like he's so busy, he's doing all this stuff, running the agency, and you don't feel rushed. He takes his time. Most people are darting out of here with 10 minutes to go, and he can sit here and talk for another hour have to. But man, thank you so much. I know I just reached out to you, say you're tired, and I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, hey, I know you're tired, but come on this call and spit for an hour. But again, hey, there's a bunch of people on this call, so they definitely want to hear from you. And I made sure I was pumping it a little bit to have you on. And I hadn't seen you in a while too, so it's good to see you looking very— me and Elijah said you're looking very svelte, sir. So, my man, you climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, a ton. But yeah, dude, thank you so much. Guys, can we get another, another 7 in the chat or some fire emojis for John? Because he just absolutely crushed it. Um, and, uh, if you need to reach out to him, obviously johnwetmore.com. He's got a bunch of, uh, probably you have to wait till next year, but workshops, he'll come speak for your team if you want some coaching from him. Um, he's got a Discord and a school group, um, that you guys can be a part of. There's links everywhere. He sends out emails, so opt in, as well as he's very active on social and speaking, um, stuff. Are you doing any more road shows this year, or you— are you done?

I don't have a travel one, but I have a couple virtual events I'm putting on that are on the website.

Yeah, so check all of that out. Obviously there's a lot of people that talk, but this is a person that's actually done it all at a very high level and will actually like— it's not too good to talk to you and just, you know, be a normal person and, you know, and act like they're, um, you know, they remember where they came from. So I always appreciate that and actually give you the truth too. That's another thing, you're not going to sugarcoat it and BS you, which we can all see here. So again, John Wetmore, man, this has been absolutely incredible. Thank you so much. Um, I do appreciate you guys. Next week.