The Secret Handshake : Building with Mavericks : Episode 24

I can do. No where too far away. No border that will stand in my way. No wall that I can't break through. No limits to what I can do. What up, dude?

What's up, Monster? How you doing, man?

All is good.

How was your marathon, bro?

I finished, and my, uh, first one ever, I apparently— so it was crazy because it wasn't— I didn't look into anything other than I signed up to a marathon. Right? And, uh, so I get there and it's literally in the middle of mother effing nowhere, Texas-Mexico border. I found out— I knew it was at 7 AM. I found out the night before it was a 45-minute drive from the nearest— where we were staying, which was the nearest town. Okay, I got to go through border security to get to it. Which was cool. And then, uh, we get there at like 6:20 in the morning. It's still dark out. It's cold as shit in the desert, which just sounds weird.

Yeah.

And, uh, whatever. It starts at 7, and I'm like, are we running on that stuff? And, bro, it was like, uh, I don't know if you saw any of the actual video, but dude, it was like, it was like trail running nightmare full of rocks and no great— no flat grade. Like, even it wasn't real steep, but what you run on had like dips and rocks. And dude, it was brutal for, for any run, much less a damn marathon. Yeah. Um, so 4 laps, 6.5 miles each. And when I got there, it was probably 50 and chilly. And by the time I was done, uh, almost— it was like 7 hours later with, you know, you stop to fuel and take a leak and whatever. I think I was running, walking combo for like— and hiking for like 6 and a half. By the time I was done, it was like 80 and sunny.

Yeah.

And I did not once think to bring sunscreen to the desert. Yeah, bro, my head. The thing that hurts the most, like, sunburn, dude, it hurts worse. Like, the pain from the run is gone, the sunburn is lingering. So like, the back of my head is like on fire, bro.

Yeah, you didn't have a hat?

I do now. I just— I don't know why.

I don't mean you don't own a hat, you didn't even bring it.

I don't know, I threw it on upstairs for some reason and whatever. Sure. Um, I had nothing to do with sunburn. I just— I don't know why I threw it on.

Yeah, you felt cool.

Yeah, I did feel cool, especially with that backwards.

I thought you looked cool when you got on and you had that hat on backwards.

I felt extra—

he looks like a tough guy.

It's like, uh, Into the Storm. Uh-huh. So yeah, so I, um, I did. I, I finished. Um, I— it was, it was definitely harder physically than I thought it was going to be going into it, and I'm glad I didn't research it a ton to be honest, because I would have overthought it and not signed up to it. Had I known the terrain I was going into, I would have thought I couldn't do it, right? Um, so I'm, I'm kind of glad my personality— because everyone that was asking me questions the last couple months, like, where it's at, what it's like, the incline, this, that, and I'm like, I don't know. You're like, you didn't look? I'm like, nah, I just signed up. I signed up. So I learned this. I was looking at it because everyone thinks I'm a little nuts, which I agree with them. I signed up, I think, like October 22nd. So I had 4 months and like a week, 4 and a half months to prep. And the most I've ever run in my life was a 5K, and I've only done like 3 of them ever, 4, maybe 3 or 4, I don't know, right? So I had no business technically running a marathon. And again, I used Run Lightly because I did not run for 26 months. Jog-walk combo, whatever. I just finished.

Well, I'm proud of you.

Yeah, but it was, it was cool, dude. It was a cool experience. And I— it was definitely harder physically than I thought it was going to be because I expected just to run on a road, right? It was easier mentally than I thought. Like, I thought it was gonna— I thought I was gonna like really want to quit the entire time. Like, after about— because the most I'd ever done in the training even was 15 miles, right? So I'd never even during training done more than that, um, and I was wore out after 15. But dude, I just— there was zero chance I was leaving that place not finishing. And then I found out at the end—

on here and say that you didn't finish?

No, hell no, dude. There was no chance that was happening. Yeah, so I finished, and then I found out a buddy of mine who does runs, he does crazy shit like 200-mile bike rides uphill and shit, like nutty stuff. Right, he texted me after. Apparently you can plug in like the bib number I got and see, dude. I, for my age, 40 to 49, I came in 3rd place and I finished 10th in the whole thing. No kidding. Yeah, I was like, no shit, I hope there were more than 10 people. I'm very impressed, I'm very proud of it. I was like, shit. So yeah, I did pretty good.

I think you did. Yeah, you did better than me.

Amen. I did better than the mountain climb thing. When is that? Yeah, so that starts August. I have— I looked at the app I use, the little training app I use. I have 24 weeks for that to climb. And I— that's more intense because it's probably 3 times the length of the amount of time it'll take to finish it, right? You have 36 hours. I think people finish it quick. I think the quick ones finish in like the teen— like 15 hours, 12, 15 hours, something crazy like that. So I, I have to research it a little because I haven't really looked into that yet either. But my guess is, dude, I'm gonna be climbing for like 20+ hours, right? And I have 36 hours to finish it.

And not at sea level?

No, no, it's like— I, dude, I want to say it's like 9,000, some obnoxious number of feet in the air. And I think it's like 4 miles, 3 or 4 miles distance, like distance. And I gotta do it, I think, 9— I'm pretty sure it's 9 times. So that's, that's August, mid-August. So that's the, that's the next Well, by the 9th time, you'll really know your way up it.

I said by the 9th time, you'll really know your way up it.

I will definitely know my way. Yeah, man, I just— one step at a time, get it done. It is what it is, and I feel fucking great about it. I felt really good finishing. I was like, holy crap. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that's awesome, dude. Congratulations. I'm happy for you. I'm proud of you. I'm glad I didn't do that. Um, I actually watch TV on Sunday.

I never do. You know what's funny is I, um, I, I, I've done it for— I did it for the marathon and the mountain thing. I text people I'm in like close with or friends or like little— I'm in like a little couple workout chats, like text groups or whatever. Yeah. And I put both of them in there. Not one fucking person joined me at either one of them. No, I'm like, shit, someone— so someone wants to come do something crazy.

You need, you need tougher text chats, man.

Any— what?

You need text chats with tougher people. I mean, they do pretty badass stuff, but wow, I'm not in that text chat and I don't want to be.

Yeah, yeah, one of the dudes did a regular— I say right, he did a marathon a couple weeks prior. The day I did the 15 training, he was doing a marathon, and it only took him like 40 minutes longer to do the whole marathon than it took me to do the 15. Yeah, but he's also 28 and fucking jacked. Yeah, I feel good about my time.

I enjoyed it a lot more at 28 and jacked. Yeah, then at 49 and looks pretty good for 49.

Yeah.

That, that's the way I describe my body. I'm 49 and look pretty damn good for 49.

Yeah, if you put me in front of a bunch, I'll be 47 at 28. Yeah, in 3 weeks I'll be 47. I'm like, if you put me a bunch of— in a room with a bunch of 47-year-olds, I feel pretty good about myself.

Yeah, you should.

But not next to a 28-year-old.

In a room full of 28-year-olds, just not the jacked ones that are doing crazy shit.

That's true.

That's— I'm gonna think you're Navy SEALs.

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, well, cool. I think it's funny, it's like I was thinking about business and just the marathon and all the questions I got, and like, for the last couple months, because I put it out there that I'm doing it, just, I don't know, hold myself accountable, I guess.

Hold yourself accountable, and you were looking forward to it.

Yeah, but it's funny how much people overthink doing something. Yeah, I was like looked at as weird for signing up without researching it or looking in or being prepared, or, you know what I mean? And I'm like, dude, I'm just that way every day with—

if there were anything but a marathon, and I've just decided decades ago I had no interest in that. Yeah, because I'm— I, I know myself. But, you know, that's, that's kind of where I'm at right now too, is like people's overthinking. Like, that's the question I wanted to have a conversation with you about. Like, I'm so frustrated right now with humans.

Why?

Like, I'm just tired of humans.

You just want robots?

What's that?

You just want robots?

Yeah, sure. I'm just tired of people's emotional inability to survive.

Yeah.

Which sounds a lot like I'm having an emotional inability to survive.

I wasn't actually thinking that, but you are kind of right.

I see, I see the hypocrisy in it. Yeah, I'm just like, so tired of watching people who have so much potential That's that word, dude.

That word kills people.

Potential.

Yes, dude, it kills people. It kills you because you see potential.

Yes, and they don't. Or people are doing great and then they get a boyfriend, or then they get a girlfriend, and you're like, you chose this person? This person's a moron. And, and what always happens is you meet in the middle, right? You know what I mean? So you have a brilliant person and a moron, they just meet in the middle.

Yeah.

And, and, and I try to focus on all the people whose lives that I have, that I've been lucky enough to be a small part of changing their life, you know. And, and it's like, you know, the thing about this business is you're always starting over because somebody gets to a place where you, you don't need to hold their hand anymore. Yeah, and then you turn around and grab somebody else's hand, move them forward, and then you turn around and grab somebody else's hand and move them forward, and then you turn around and grab somebody else's hand, you know. And I'm here 6 years almost, and I'm like, I don't want to grab another hand.

I feel your pain there. It's interesting. It's hard to— I feel like, um, I feel like if I keep doing the same thing over and over again, I haven't I haven't progressed either. Yeah, you know, and then some days I feel selfish saying shit like that because I say it too, and I'm like, I don't want to do that piece anymore.

Yeah, I mean, and you know, if I— and I'm— that what I'm saying it out loud, you know, it's really not my job anymore. Yeah, it's other people's job now.

But anybody as good at it as you are? No, of course. Yeah, I have a couple, thankfully. That are.

Yeah, Alyssa, my wife is amazing, right? Like, she's phenomenal. Yeah, but like you, right, I'm just that good at it. And then also, I— you know what, now that I'm having the conversation out loud instead of in my head, because I wanted to save it, I wanted to have this conversation with you because I, I, you know, we're so similar in this way. It— I think what maybe the problem is, is that it's not my job to hold their hand anymore.

Yeah.

And so it's not— I'm not going to. So I'm, and I'm a bystander watching it instead of a, uh, instead of being intimately involved. And I'm just annoyed with it.

What? Because the ones that are Yeah, no, no, why are you annoyed with it?

Yeah, I don't know. Okay, yeah, I think that's the point of the conversation.

I understand it. Yeah, I mean, I understand. You know what's funny is like, it sucks, bro, um, building this thing. I always— like, you hold the hand, next one hold the next hand. I always look at it like, um, I don't know if I've told you this before, but when y'all came to Atlanta, remember that at the airport they had the train and it went from wherever gate you were at and it went all the way to baggage claim and that it just goes all day long back and forth? I feel like that's the ride I'm on. Like, I'm the train and I'm going back and forth no matter what. I'm going from point A to point B no matter what, right? But there were— there's like 6 or 7 stops in between. And at every stop, what happens? Some people get off and more people get on, right? Right. Every stop, a bunch of people get off the train and a bunch of people get on the train. They nearly crash into each other, but there's always this on-off game. Then it goes to the next stop. Some get on, some get off, and there's very few that stay on the entire ride, right? You know what I mean? I feel like that's this, dude. Uh, I agree. There's very few people I've been with this whole ride on. Actually, there's no one I've been on the entire ride on with because even the people I started with aren't here anymore. Um, um, so yeah, I think for me it's like I learned to understand that and I learned to just take people to their stop, and if they're ready to get off, I just— see you later. Now they can get back on later if they want, I guess. I, I'm not necessarily mad at it. But dude, the hardest part for me, bro, was like seeing the potential, and then when people weren't coachable— because I think that's the part, is like they don't adapt or they, they hit a ceiling, you know what I mean, where they, they can only carry a load so far, build a team so far, sell so much, or whatever it is, man. The willingness to just move on from people and watch really good people, like, for lack of a better word, drown, and me not jump in and save them— but that was hard to, to do that.

That's— yeah, and that's exactly where I'm at. I'm like, guys, I'm not gonna jump back in.

But here's what I learned, dude. My willingness to not jump in and fucking drown with them has let me see new people I wouldn't have otherwise seen had I spent time jumping in the ocean after people all the time.

You mean like outside of that?

Yes, 100%, dude. It's opened up opportunity, it's brought new people to me, it's created new relationships. Now the hard part of it is a lot of those people don't necessarily like me anymore. Does that make sense? Like, so you— I know you don't give a shit, you can deal with that, but the average person watching, that's hard, huh?

Do you?

I don't give a shit at all.

Okay.

Yeah, zero. I mean, I did what I could to help them, and if they, if they're not coachable, like, I, I just genuinely, this is not to be like a dick. I don't understand the point of communicating with each other. Like, does it make sense? You're not growing and you're not listening. Why do we talk? I don't need— and that, dude, that's hard for people around me. I've learned, you know, some kind of way.

The first people I recruited were Andrew. Andrew is still with me. Jamie. Jamie is still with me. Samaria. Samaria is still with me. Anthony. Anthony is still with me.

I'm shocked, dude. That's impressive.

There were 2 people in that group. Oh, and Chris— Chris is still kind of with me.

I mean, are they still growing, each of them?

Some of them, yeah. Some of them not at all.

Well, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

But so, uh, in my time hop yesterday was videos of the first training class I ever did.

Yeah.

Uh, was that 4 years ago? And I'm like, holy crap, there's only 2 people in that class who aren't with me. One of them has passed away, uh, and one of them is a realtor and still a friend of mine.

Yep.

It's like, you know, the truth is, if I can do that, someone else can do that too.

Yeah, it's true, it's true. I remember looking at our group at one point I haven't looked at it recently to see, in the last couple years, to see where it's at. But when, when we had Elizabeth—

Elizabeth was in that too.

So yeah, yeah, I remember thinking like, I remember when I— when early building, you have your people that are helping you build and they're recruiting with you and they're doing— yeah, I mean, they're bringing people to meetings and doing what they got to do to kind of grow their, their their portion. And I remember when we got to about in the ballpark of a million a month production, we had probably 12 managers, if you will, that were like actually doing something recruiting-wise. And that's who helped me get to that million a month, right? I didn't— I did a certain point by myself, a few hundred grand, whatever it was. And then the others, I had like 12 direct to me that were building, and we got to called a million a month, and we probably had 100 agents at the time, give or take. Fast forward to when I signed with Integrity, we were doing, you know, 2.5, 3 million a month. 3, 2 years later, 3 years after, whatever it was, 9 of the 12 were still here physically, but not one of them had grown anymore from the where they were at when we're at a million. Those people were still the same. It was new people that got on the train that took us to the 3 million, you know. Yeah, I was always blinded by that because I always thought the people that I had with me at the beginning were going to be with me forever. Like, we were gonna— I thought we were just gonna stay on the train forever together. I was kind of blinded by like, some people just choose to get off, or it's not for them, or they can't handle the difficulties of building, or they go to another agency, or they go— yeah, yeah, for sure. Yep, they leave, they quit and go somewhere else. So the—

which always makes sense, which makes me happy when people do that. Um, in, in a way, in a happy— like a dad. Yeah, yeah. Not happy like, oh, thank God they're gone, but happy like a dad, like, you know, look what my son did.

So that's been interesting. Yeah. And really, the growth we've gotten to now Dude, it's really been the same handful of people that have gone from 3 to— we're doing— we did, I don't know, fucking 15 million last month. It's really the same handful. So those handful for the last 3, 4, going on 4 years, it's really been the same core. A couple new people have stepped up, a couple, you know, you know, I mean, the guys you know, they've stepped up and gone like, look what they built, holy shit. Yeah, he came. Yeah, that's incredible. With zero help from me.

Yeah, that's awesome.

I mean, like, they just figured it out and had help from other people in the business and the agency and the group, whatever. Um, so it's pretty wild to see some of the biggest teams now with time. Certainly I pro— I opened the door to the agency existing under the umbrella, but dude, I didn't have to hold dude's hand, like, at all. Like, at all. Yeah, he didn't need you know what I mean? Which is wild to see how it develops with time. Um, and you, you almost like lose control.

I'm not doing a good job at that. So, but then again, you know, it's only been this last couple of months that I've said I'm not doing it. I'm not stepping back in.

I'm not being— yeah, so someone's gonna step up in your world. You mean like, I've always, I've always killed Mike Killam at really mentored me every day for God knows how many years until he retired. Um, and we still talk some, but day in, day out, he always taught me like leadership is taken, not given. And I always tried to like bonk someone on the head with, hey, you're my next manager, right? And instead of just kind of watching for people who had leadership qualities naturally, you know what I mean, just around the office, maybe they help agents when they don't have to, when they're not direct and they're not getting an override, they're just helping the team. And kind of taking that guy and going like, hey, come over here, and pouring more into them. That, that really worked well for me because at first I tried to take everybody's words at face value because everybody said they want to build something dope, but very few people will stick with it. And even more that stick with it won't change enough to adapt to all the different personalities that you have to learn to manage to actually grow something. That's, that's quite the puzzle. But man, the ones that built it big, bro, I didn't have anything to do with it. Them stepping up, I helped, sure, but I didn't choose them to— I didn't go like, you're my next guy. And nor did Mike do that with me. I chose it and I chose to put myself in that. So I, I think for me, dude, I've learned to like really watch for different qualities and and see if I can challenge people more and empower people more. And, you know, I mean, make them feel like they can do something with the skills they have just on their own. That's— that helped me, kind of the combination of watching people drown and identifying people who naturally had leadership skills. And again, maybe I can add to them if I can, um, you know. And just, as you know, teaching people the shit you messed up. They can— if they can get there a little quicker. That's always been my goal, and it's, it's worked. I've definitely messed it up a lot, but the general concept works, you know. And I think for me, dude, I've never known who was going to break out. People always ask— someone asked me the other day, yeah, I bet you know how to identify a hot lead by now. Or— and people always ask me, how do you know who's going to be the next leader in your group? I'm like, but I have no idea. I have no earthly idea.

I would say the two best up-and-coming leaders I have were two agents who freaking sucked for two years. Yeah, like for two years I'm like, that guy's still here today. It was a long weekend. I assumed he would have found a job over the weekend.

Yeah, yeah, that was me. I sucked ass at this for a couple years, for sure. You know, I just worked enough that I, I got by, you know. But it took me a few years to get like really effing good. Yeah, it was good. I think it's pretty common, dude.

Yeah, my, uh, yeah, my, my, my two people, one of them is, his name's Ant, and he's, he was in that first group, right? And for 2 years didn't come to the office, you know, wrote just enough for us to not pull his contract. And then about a year and a half ago, he started coming back to work. And then about 9 months ago, I was like, holy crap. And now it's like, oh, thank God this guy's here. Like, we're at— like, we're having a bad day, fine, he'll just walk out there and write 100K.

I love it.

And then, and then inspire everyone else to do it too. So proud of. And, and another guy named Dan who was one of those people that when he came in, I was like, why did we recruit this guy? I don't think we're being nice to him by doing this. This is a horrible thing for him. Not, you know, it's all the same for me, but guys, badass, right? Pushes people. Just incredible, incredible man.

So I assume you talk about the opportunity that people can have if they step up and lead and shit like that. Yeah, yeah, in your, in your meetings and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I just put it out there a lot, you know what I mean? What you're looking for. What, to be honest, you need it to grow. You can't— you're, you're one dude, so there's so much you can do. So I think some people hesitate to own that piece. I know that's not you, but in, you know what I mean, openly talking about it, maybe it is. I don't know, I just— I put it out there a lot, you know what I mean? And then it's like, hey, here's what we need help with. Hey, if someone— and I would do it in story fashion in the sense of what I did to help my mentor, things I stepped up and took over, and what that allowed me to get in return. Because he saw me helping him, he gave in, he gave to me more, you know what I mean? And it kind of— it worked in combination to where we became— we eventually became partners in the— like, not physically like shared bank account partners, but like we ran— even though we were two separate— the hierarchy was— we ran it together.

Yeah, that's Derek and I. Yeah, that's always been Derek.

That's— that can be fucking deadly, dude. Yeah, yeah. So I love it.

All right, well, I feel better.

I think challenge some people, dude. Yeah, I mean, I will put it out there. And highlight the people that are doing the things different than the rest. You know what I mean? Like, point it out. Like, yo, Derek stepped up doing this, he stepped up doing that. Hey, I appreciated that. Like, the more you— it's weird— the more you put it out there, more people were like, oh really? Like, I'll give you an example. It's stupid, but it works, okay? Like, when I was new, people always tried— people always have a hard time going like, um, I'm like, I tried to add value to people that I was seeking to learn from. And a lot of people struggle with that, like, how do I add value when I don't even know what the hell I'm doing? And I, I can remember early on when, like, Mike would run meetings and he'd have a bunch of agents in, and we'd have 30, 40, 50 agents in the office throughout the day, and they'd come in, make phone calls, book appointments, and then we'd have a training for a couple hours and And afterwards, people— some, some went home, some dialed, continued to dial throughout the night or whatever. But at the meeting, when you put 40, 50, 60 agents in a room with a bunch of chairs to watch a training for 2 hours, at the end of the 2 hours, all the chairs are disorganized. Like, they're not where they were when you walked into the room, all neat. People's trash is on the floor. They leave their coffee cups, they leave their bags of chips, they just leave their shit behind, dude. It's really weird where you put things on the whiteboard and you do examples and no one thinks to erase it. No one thinks to refill the paper towels in the bathroom or the kitchen. You know what I mean? Like little stuff like that. And I would watch Mike afterwards always doing this stuff and I'm like, literally no one stays to help. So I started helping with shit like that. I was brand new, but I'm like, I can organize chairs. That seems simple. You know what I mean? And I would just do things that helped him. Take some burden off of him. You know, I did that with my kids. The way I became like the 9th string assistant coach in Maddox's baseball teams until this past year is every time there was a practice, I would go shag balls and bring the buckets of balls to the coach so they could keep hitting. I just did the dumb shit. I made sure the kids had helmets and knew who was— I just did like the nonsense. Yeah, you know, they were like Yeah, and they'd be like, dude, do you want to be a coach? I'm like, yeah, but I can't teach the kids anything other than like, here, wear a helmet. I don't know baseball, but I mean, I was like the dugout coach for like 12 years, 10, 8, whatever, till he was 12. Not 12 years, till he was 12. Um, and I did the same thing with Mike, you know. And so I would, I would share that. Him and I would share that story so often, things that I was doing. The first time I remember, the first time we had these sales meetings, right? You do them, you have little meetings and you have a big, you know, people speak and they do an event. Maybe you have lunch, maybe you don't, you do whatever. And we would have these quarterly meetings and they'd be at a hotel setting. You get a stage and you get the sound and you get whatever, maybe a lunch thing, this, that, and the other. And one time, the first time I go up to Mike and I hand him a check for $1,000, and he looked at me like I was a damn alien. He's like, what's this for? I'm like, dude, I'm not confused. This wasn't free, and I have agents here that you're training. Like, without this, my agents don't learn anything, right? And he goes, dude, I've been doing this— at that point, he'd probably been doing it like probably 4 years. He goes, dude, you're the first person to ever give me a check for a meeting. And I was like, I mean, I know you paid it out of your pocket, right? And I, I appreciate it. You know, I mean, just a simple gesture stood out to him like crazy, you know. We would just share things. And that's— and people always wondered why we were so close. Like, why John? Why is it— it was like John and Mike. Everything was John and Mike, John and Mike, John and Mike, right? And so we would share it. Well, here's why. Here's— I tried to add value to him, he added value to me, and it just worked really seamlessly. He was good at things I sucked at and vice versa. He was patient as shit, really good with people, and I'm not either of those. And it just— the dynamic worked well. And that gave people a path to find some type of leadership if they wanted it in our space, you know what I mean? So maybe find that in your world and just shit because you have it with some of the guys, right? You know, I think some people just feel like they can't enter that zone, or like there's an invite that they're waiting for, like you're gonna send them an invite card next week if they do, you know what I mean? I just don't think they know, is, is what I've learned, which sounds weird, but I, I've seen it.

It makes sense. You're right.

You know, I appreciate it. Who knows? Maybe it helps. It does. I appreciate it.

I need you today. Thanks. Missed you last week, so yeah, I should have—

I didn't plan that very well. I'm glad we're back. Good, good. What else you got?

Well, I think, man, I think that's the best podcast people need to listen to.

Okay, I love it.

I think we should call it right there. I do have a lot of things I want to tell you, but okay. But we'll get them on the next one.

All right, brother, we'll end there.

Appreciate y'all.