This Exact Roadmap Made Me A Millionaire in Insurance ft. Andy Riddle | Ep31

that's usually the peak of how bad it's going to get. And if you can figure out how to fight through that in business or physically, it's almost like the body's like, this mf-er is not going to quit, so the pain goes away. And in business, I think about the tough stuff that I've gone through when I've pushed through it. Once you push through it, it kind of does not— doesn't hurt anymore.

What up, y'all? John Wetmore back with another episode of Insurance Insiders with my buddy Andy Riddle. Who is one of the few people that has been around my career the entire time. I tell a lot of stories about back stuff, but there's very few people who have made it this long, which is weird that we're like vets in the industry and ain't really been in it that long. Um, but known you for a long time, dude, and got reconnected on some of the crazy shit— you're wearing the hat— yeah, that we both like to do. So appreciate you coming in, dude, and we're gonna chat and figure this thing out. So you got started in the business in, I think you said, '07?

Yeah, I got my insurance license in June of '07.

Um, is that implying you didn't do shit with it?

Yeah, at that time I was— I had, um, you know, after I graduated college, I went in corporate America, went to work for Merrill Lynch in an entry-level position. I was doing different things and I worked my way up that corporate ladder. Um, I've got up to vice president of their bank. I was making more money than I for me at the time was more money than I thought I'd ever make. I was making like $225,000 a year.

Yeah.

And I loved my job. I loved everything I did. I hated the life.

Why?

Um, I traveled 50 weeks a year. My territory was from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania through Minneapolis, Minnesota down through Texas, and I lived in Florida. So it was just airplanes and hotels, which I liked traveling and I like getting out and meeting people.

Yeah.

Um, I didn't like being— what part I didn't like was my my life. I, I, my kids at the time were like 2 and 3 years old. I was never home, never got to see them, especially the younger. I was like, I just remember coming home and telling my wife at the time, I was like, I would give back all the, the house, the cars, the money, and go live in the woods, which I know wouldn't have worked for 10 minutes either, but it was one of those things. And I was just looking for another job, a better job. And, um, I got in the insurance industry and Really, when I saw it the first time, it was like, this would be something cool I can make a little bit of money on until I find my next job.

No kidding.

It was like, I always say it was like gap insurance, and it was like my gap job. Um, and 17 years later, I'm still on my gap job.

So that's insane. What did you do 50 weeks on the— like, what did you actually do on the road all the time?

Oh, I mean, my job was— it's a lot like in the insurance industry where we have the, the reps come and Sales training, doing the products and trying to get us to do more of their business. I was a Merrill Lynch employee, but I was the banking side. So I'd go meet with the financial advisors to try to get them to push your product, to use more the bank.

Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it.

So I was kind of— I would want to take them out to dinner.

Yeah, yeah, the account rep lifestyle.

I was the account rep for that.

Makes sense. Exhausting. Interesting. How'd you find insurance? I actually don't know. I remember what's funny is I remember back in the day hearing your story a million years ago, because I was the— I was new when I was new. What I do remember is when I was new, you were the guy that hired a guy that hired a guy that hired a guy that hired me. Yeah, you know, like you were up there somewhere and I was like, holy smokes.

It's crazy because when I was in Merrill Lynch and I wanted to walk away from that job, I actually quit. And they came to me and said, we don't want you to quit, what's the issue? And I was like, I just can't do the traveling. And so they gave me a job back in the office in Florida.

Got it.

And they didn't have a position for me, so I was like a floater. So I'd be in this department, this department, like just jumping around. And I was filling in for a lady who was on maternity leave, and it was a lesser role than what I was at that point in my career there. So it was kind of boring. It was just like— and I was bored one day, and I was going through her desk, um, because I was bored, and found her husband's business card and called him and asked him what he did. Shut up.

Just out of no—

yeah. And he was in—

I just was going through your wife's desk and found your card.

Congratulations on the baby. What do you do?

Stop it.

Because I was just so bored and hated what I did.

Would they— was he making money? Is that why you did it? Or you just—

were you—

he could have been a garbage man for all you knew.

Yeah, he— well, I went to a meeting, met him.

Got it.

He, he kind of told me he was making money, which later I found out he really wasn't. But at the point I found out he wasn't making money, I was. So I was like, I don't really care what he does, but yeah, if I knew what I knew, I would have never gotten in it.

But yeah, interesting. Then you went to a meeting. Yeah, here's what you do. Yeah, yeah, interested, interesting.

But I was— the whole time I was at those meetings, I was just like, I can make a couple thousand bucks a week and doing this on the side. And I kept— I remember my first 6 months I was in the industry, I was doing job interviews, still going to meet with Trying to find the job, trying to find a job.

And then you were selling?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit, enough to pay the bills. It was a part-time, like, side job. Yeah, I was never a big sales guy.

What made you stay? Or just because you couldn't find something?

You know, I got to see the bigger picture of the company because when I first saw it, it was just that little office in Florida that I was going into. Yeah, I think you kind of remember that guy. His office, I always joke with people, but it's so true. It's like he had green carpet. And he had the— in his office, he had built a training room, and it— when he took over the office, it was built-in cubicles, not the ones you can take apart. It was built into the floor. So he knocked them down, and then there was just concrete where the carpet wasn't there, where those were. So he went and got remnants green carpet that was a different color green carpet, so it kind of looked like a miniature golf course. And so my picture was, this is the insurance industry, like, this is the only thing I have. And then I went to a bigger meeting and met and saw it was like a real company, real things. And I was like, oh, I can actually make a career. I didn't think— I didn't see a career path with the—

till then—

the green carpet place. But then when I saw the bigger vision and the bigger companies, I was like, this is something I could do. Yeah, make money at.

How did the sales— I don't know what— how much sales did you end up doing? Or did you get into recruiting right away? Or—

yeah, once I made that decision I wanted to do it, this was probably like September of '07. Okay. I made a game plan to leave my job at Merrill Lynch. So we came up with like a 60-day plan After the 60 days, I quit my job in November of '07 and went full-time, and I sold till April of '08. And I've really sold— I haven't sold policies to pay bills since April of '08.

That's awesome.

Yeah, so that's awesome.

So you were recruiting right away?

Yeah, that's the only thing I wanted to do. Yeah, yeah, I saw that. I like the sales aspect. You make money. Yeah, but I was making the correct money our sales guys were making. I was like, why would I leave this for Yeah, why do the same?

Yeah, bigger picture. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't making the money, but I saw what you saw early too. I had to sell a little longer because I did have to— I had no money. Yeah. Um, but I, I didn't sell crazy long relative to what we see in the industry. Yeah, I mean, dude, I always tell people that first meeting for me, I got started with y'all in 2010 technically. And dialed once and quit. So for the other day, I heard the story 100 times. I was with him, not directly, but I was in depth in your group at the time. I worked for 12 minutes and quit and then came back in the summer of 2012, and that's when I started selling. And, uh, same, part-time. Yeah, had a job. But I remember the first meeting that I went to, big one. I got— first of all, I got put on stage, which is cool for for selling $2,500 in a month, you know what I mean? But I— then, but then I saw like all the people that got on stage and then they did like $5,000 and then $10,000 and then $20,000 and then some y'all managers and the money. I was like, whoa, this— the, the meeting did the same thing for me. Yeah, it opened up this like thing I never saw of potential. I was like, holy smokes. And then I was like, I want to be one of those dudes. I want to be on stage, like, it was teaching people how to—

it was the one time in my life I felt I had the shot, you know what I mean? It's like, in corporate America, I felt like I could be good, and it's just like, you figure out the plan to move up, but it's slow increments. But that, those, that top tier, it's like, can I really be that? Yeah, you know, this was the one time I was like, oh, I actually control if I want to do this or not. Yeah. And I felt like, true or not true, in my mind it was the one shot I've had to have control over my life, like where I wanted to go.

Yeah.

And that's, that's what I loved. It was like, if I want to make a ton, I can make a ton. If I don't, I don't.

Yeah.

But it's all up to me to pick. Yeah.

Yeah. How, um, how quick did you replace your, like, lifestyle in the building side? Did it take a minute, or were you from—

no, it was like 6 months. When I was out of the field, I was good.

You were making money.

I mean, my debt structure at the time, coming from Merrill Lynch and corporate America, they teach you to spend as much as making pretty much. Yeah, yeah, I had a big—

you had some bills.

Yeah, so big boy bills. I didn't have a lot of debt, but outside of like how, like your typical house and car debt, but not like credit card debt. But it was like, but I did have real bills that had to be paid.

Yeah.

So I always say my debt structure at the time, and this is in '07, I had to make $100 grand or I would have lost my stuff.

Yeah.

So about 6 months in a full time was when I was making over $10,000 off a team.

Yeah.

So that's kind of when I went away from selling and just went to the building side.

So, and you obviously have taught a lot of people to do this on both selling and building side. What advice do you give? Because some— so many people see the building side and they feel like it's going to take forever to make a decent living, and you don't see that or believe that.

No, not at all.

Um, and not to be clear, not a lot of people that I get on can teach building. Yeah, it's a different animal, dude. There's not a lot of people that really do it. I mean, you've got a squad, which is cool.

It's one of those things, especially when I first got— I got lucky, I would say, but it's because I talked to a bunch of people. I always say the more activity you do, the luckier you get.

Yeah.

Um, when I hired the guy that you hired, you were through, um, he was the personality guy, you know. He never met a stranger. I'm more the introvert. Like, if I went to a big meeting, I'm like, I'm standing in the corner just watching.

Yeah.

And, uh, me and him became friends, and he would go just he would just go talk to people and ask questions, and I would just stand next to him and listen. Yep. And that's really how I got trained, is as he, he built, he was talking to a bunch of people, I just listened and adopted. But I would have never—

dude, you hired technically helped you train.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, without him, I wouldn't have made it, you know what I mean? So he, his, his outgoingness, and I just sticking around and watching it do it. But then as you start building, it's, it's shocking to me how many good people you need, how few good people you need to actually make a difference. I mean, my business got off the ground. I mean, when I was out of the field in 6 months, it was really because of 2 guys. Yeah, I mean, I had more than that, but it was really— that was the majority that led it. Yeah, those 2 guys were— it was enough. And even to this day, I mean, we do what we do now. It's not like I have a ton of guys that I really— yeah, work with my foxhole buddies that I'm going to jump in, you know. Yeah, it's a handful of guys, and it's the same for me still.

It's the same deal. It's a handful of us, and granted, there's a lot of people, but I— there was a stage where it was busy.

Yeah.

But for the most part, it's always only been a few. I agree. That really moved the needle with you. Um, how'd you— didn't you meet at a restaurant or something? What's the story? How'd y'all— how'd you connect with the first one? I vaguely remember it.

We're at a Japanese steak—

I was gonna say a Chinese food or something.

Yeah, it's one of the ones where they cook that food in front of you.

Yeah, that we just ate.

Yep. And, um, yeah, it's— but it goes back to his personality. It's kind of like I was sitting there with my family and I would have had my back to him not wanting to talk to him, and he was the opposite, like, hey, who are you? You know, so, and we just started talking.

Um, were you at the same table, like, kabachi table?

He was sitting next to me.

No kidding.

But we didn't know each other. Crazy. So he was just networking, trying to get to— he was in a corporate job, but he was always looking for a better corporate job.

Yeah.

And then we found out where I worked at Merrill Lynch. He was trying to— he, he told me that he was always trying to figure out in that conversation how he could get to Merrill Lynch and work there. And, um, he said what— how excited I was. Just a part-time agent when I recruited him. Yeah. And he said how excited I was about my part-time thing was shocking to him for being a guy I've worked with. Yeah, yeah. He's like— so it convinced him to come aboard, and the rest is history.

That's wild, dude, to think one little dinner conversation— you know what I mean? It's like, how many conversations do we have with people every day?

Yeah.

And just people aren't intentional with it.

Yeah. And it was crazy too, because there's probably one of those hibachi places— there's probably 3 of them closer to where I lived, and we lived maybe a half mile from each other, and there's probably 3 other hibachi places closer to our house, and we both went to that one. It's like, why did it line up? Yeah, it's crazy.

Life is funny that way, dude. Yeah, it's funny how things can align, timing. I mean, like, we're not sitting here if weird things didn't just align. Yeah, today you and I, you know, reconnect, and obviously we hadn't talked in a while, but reconnected. I've shared this a ton, which obviously you know the end result, but the— I like to do crazy shit. And found out you like to do crazy shit because we ran into each other, I think, before. I think, I think one of us posted or we shared, you know, I mean, we're both sharing stuff or following stuff or something. But the crazy mountain that I shared that I've— that I hiked, the 29029 thing, this fool's done, I think, finished 3 times. You said finished 3, done it 4, and did 3 mountain marathons in 3 days. What, 3 weeks later? 4 weeks? A few weeks later?

Yeah.

Nuts, dude. For those that don't know, the short— well, tell them the short— that thing you did it, at least you can tell them what it is.

The mountain one or—

yeah, both. I don't care, the whole craziness.

Well, I mean, it— I got into the mountain marathons because I'm— I mean, the mountain climbing stuff, just because it's like you get into the personal development field and you're trying to get better as a business person, and I'm, I'm always looking for the edge. Like, what can I get better at and how I can do it? And With the mountain stuff, it was kind of like, could I do that, you know? And then when I couldn't do it, then I'm like, I need to figure out how I can do it. And then I've been doing them a couple— I've done the 3 since I failed on the first one.

Yeah.

And it's like pushing the edge, and it's just like, how— and then it's like, how fast can I do it?

Yeah.

And it's, it's looking for those edges, and it— but it's so many business lessons I've learned on the mountain, you know what I mean? It's like, I was talking to some guys the other day, and it's just like I was like, what's the last thing, the last thing you failed at, and why'd you fail? If you look back and really think why you fail, and then it's like, now what's the last 10 things, and was it the reason you failed on the last 10 the same as the last one you failed on? And it's usually the answer is yes. It's like they just find that spot to give up. Yeah, when it hurts or whatever, they make that decision. And I'm, I'm no different, but it's like what I've— I think by challenging myself, by doing things like the mountain, yeah, has changed that hurt, you know. It's crazy, that mount— the 3 mountain ultra marathons in 3 days. While I was doing it, I'm like, I'm never doing this again. But when I woke up the 4th day when I didn't have to do one, I had the— I didn't do it, but I had the thought, how many days in a row could I do this before my body gives up? You know what I mean? It's like, because it's like—

I feel like you're gonna do it again, by the way.

I'm not doing it again next year.

I think I'm gonna get you to do it.

But it's one of those things, it's like Once you do something that you don't think you could actually do and you complete it, it's like, oh wow, how far could I take this? It's like, because the fourth day you wake up and you're not dead and you're still able to get out of bed, and it's like, I know I could, I know I could have done one more day. Yeah, could I have done two? Then it's like, can I do one more?

Push the limit.

Yeah.

And to be clear, it was like, they say marathon, it was what, 28 miles each one, roughly uphill. What do they call it? What's the word?

Vertical incline, like 8,000 feet.

8,000 feet up for a marathon in 3 days in a row. Yeah, on a mountain, you know what I mean? It's like the, the initial— we're at the 20, which you all can see his hat. It's— that's the height of Mount Everest in elevation, is the word I was looking for. And, uh, that's the thing I attempted. I made it to— it's a Kilimanjaro. Was the one. Yeah, I think it was 20,000 feet or whatever. And straight up quit the second day because I would mentally— dude, I was, I was rocked by it. So now I've lived every day of my life to not be able to wait till the next time I can do it again. But you hike this. So we went to Whistler. You've done a few others, but together we were at Whistler Mountains, Canada. This mountain's 4 miles in length. 4,000 feet, right, in elevation, and you have to hike it 8 times in 36 hours. Which I was like, I got this, I do everything. I said, I got it. And I, as we were talking before this, like, I trained, but I ain't trained right, knowing what I know now, bro.

The first time I did it too, it was the same thoughts and the same thing. And then, and I'm also like, I can grind through anything.

Me too.

I can grind through anything until you find something you can't You know, but you know what was crazy, bro?

I was getting passed by like 60-year-old women on the mountain that were beast moding this thing, that are just chit-chatting. Yes.

And I'm like trying to gasp for air, bro.

Yeah, I was like, you know, you work out and then you get around people that work out a lot, and I'm like, oh, I'm not in that good of shape. I'm in pretty good shape around general public, but when I'm in a different room, I'm like, That dude, in most places I go, I'm in physically the best shape, typically. I got checked there, dude. Yeah, that was, that was no joke, man. That was a hell of a challenge.

I love it though, because you go in that 36 hours, the emotion, especially like when you finish it and get— but the emotions you go through in that whole time. Yeah, it's in, in the 17 years I've been in the business, I tell people, I was like, in 36 hours I can give you what I've experienced in 17 17 years.

Yeah, correct.

Like the worst of the worst feeling you're gonna have on the mountain, that middle of the road feeling you're gonna have on the mountain. And then when you finish, the joy, the best joys I've ever had in this business is the same thing. And it's like, if I can compress 17 years of emotions that I felt in, in ups and downs of business, I can teach you in 36 hours, go do a damn mountain, you'll figure it out.

Had you done anything prior? Like, what was the hardest thing you've done prior to that?

Oh, in a year? Well, I mean, I was a college basketball player, but I mean, that doesn't but that was years ago.

Never done like marathons and 10Ks and none of that? You just jumped right to crazy?

Yeah, well, I didn't think it was that crazy. I did it, but yeah, I didn't really know how bad it was going to be the first one until I actually did it. But, um, but then I loved it, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, and it's, um, I don't know, it's— and it gets in you because it's like that in the bit— and even in this business, like in the insurance business, that emotional roller coaster is when Even when you're in the downs of downs, it's like I always laugh because it's like, if I can laugh about it 2 years from now, I might as well laugh now. True. And with the mountain stuff, it's like it compresses it, and it— I think it teaches you a lot too. Yeah. And it's not just business, it's life, you know. Crap's gonna hit you all the time. Yeah.

So yeah, I feel that. I did a— I did them— I didn't do much prior either. Um, I'd run a 5K when I was like 28 or something. And then I decided in December, I signed up for that and a marathon. The marathon was in March, so I had like 10 weeks to train for a marathon. And I didn't— we were talking earlier, I didn't look into anything, 29.02, nothing. I just saw it online. Jesse Itzer does them, like, oh, sounds cool, I'll sign up. And marathon, I'm like, all right, I'll sign up. My daughter picked it. And I get out there and I found out it's a trail marathon, which I didn't really know. I'm like, where's the cement? I've been training on cement for like— and I get out there and it's the thing, you know. But I did finish that. So I went from that and then I had whatever, 6, 5 months, and this is a different kind of training, bro, you know, different mentality. So I got—

I always— the first mountain I went to, I— we use those walking poles and, um, I took them out of the box when I got to the mountain. I've never walked with poles for.

Same. I did the same thing.

I was doing it the right way. Yeah, I was just watching everyone else.

It's crazy, dude. Um, but you know, it's like, it's funny watching how few people push the limit. And then again, you relate it to insurance. It's like, how few of the people get into this are watching quit over just such minor stuff in the big, big scheme. So many of you have asked if there's an option for more access, more direct coaching. And so we've created a coaching platform called the Winner's Circle where you have a couple different options. There is a one-on-one option to where we can work directly with you on a regular basis, and then there's a small group setting, 4 to 6 people, really high achievers looking to get to just a new level in their career. We've had a ton of success in this already. First month, actually, the first guy that joined deposited $7,500. Worked with them back and forth one-on-one, The very next month he deposited over $30 grand. So basically a 5x return on his income in 30 days. So if you're looking for something like that, you can click on the link below, get access to an application because I'm not taking everybody. I do wanna make sure it's a good fit for both of us. And if we feel like you'd be a good fit, we'll set up a one-on-one call directly with me, um, and kind of go through your struggles, what you need help with, and what I expect of people that are joining the coaching program. Um, so if you feel like it'd be a good fit for you and something you want more of, click the link below and we'll see you on the other side. Welcome to the Winner's Circle. What do you see on the— 17 years, dude, that's crazy. I'm at 12. That's insane. Um, what do you see as like those that win or those that lose, some commonality, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, the ones that are watching that are in it trying to figure it out. Yeah, like what do they got to do to stay and be successful in the business, in your opinion? Everything you've seen from Like, what's the magic, bro? Give them the magic.

You know, one of the lessons I've learned, um, I learned it on the mountain, but I really learned it when I did the 3 ultra marathons on the mountain in 3 days. But it's when you get to that part of hard where most people quit, and I was this way too, it— you would think I gotta quit because it's just gonna get harder. Like when I was doing those marathons, I remember I got that part and I'm just like, my feet hurt so bad, my body's just dead. And I'm like, there's— and I still have a marathon and a half to go. And I'm like, there's— I can go one more step, but there in my mind is there's no way I can do another marathon and a half.

Yeah.

So I might as well quit now. That mindset.

Yeah.

And it gets to the point in physical and even in business when I've gone through tough stuff mentally Physically, it's— that's usually the peak of how bad it's gonna get.

Yeah.

And if you can figure out how to fight through that in business or physically, it's almost like they— Jesse talked about it at the trail thing, Jesse Itzler, and he was like, it's almost like the body's like, this mf-er is not gonna quit, so the pain goes away. It's true.

And it was— makes sense.

Yeah, it's like the body submits. And being like, okay, I can't convince him to stop, so it's just going to stop hurting. And in business, I think about the tough stuff that I've gone through when I've pushed through it. Once you push through it, it kind of doesn't hurt anymore. Yeah, it's like you get to that max hurt and it's almost tricking yourself to push through the max hurt. And it almost— it's not even like it gets better. It's— it gets better, but it gets like— it's like gone.

Yeah, it's almost like, did it actually even hurt to begin with, right?

Yeah.

Or is it just a mental—

it was a mental thing because it— I mean, I remember remember being like, my feet hurt so bad, I was like, I, I can't take another step. And then when I took another step and then I did that like 3 or 4 times, all of a sudden my feet didn't even hurt anymore.

Yeah.

And it's, it's in, in business and the same thing is if you can create— and what I've learned is if you can figure out how to trick yourself to where you stop and come up with a hack. I think I learned it when I was doing 75 Hard. It's because in 75 Hard, if you fail, you fail.

Yeah.

And it's kind of like, and you're like, well, I can't fail. So I'm gonna figure out how to, you know, the first time I did 75 Hard, I tore a muscle in my calf or hurt my calf. And I'm like, oh, I can't work out twice a day. And then I realized I can ride my bike and it didn't hurt my calf. I was like, oh, and then also my calf was good again quick. It's when you can come up with hacks or tricks to push you through things that you know slow you down. It's almost like, it's scary now because it's almost like what slows me down? You know, it's like I'm okay with it because I know I can push through it, but there's, there's still, I still have limits. That's just finding them. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's like you see so many agents that quit because whatever, too many people told them no today.

Yeah.

Or, you know, I mean, I had like, you saw when we were talking with Brandon the other day, is like, I got, I got my ass kicked today. I was like, define that.

Yeah.

You know, and it's a mental, like mentally you got your butt kicked, but not really at all.

Mm-hmm.

It's like, I mean, I had to figure that out too, because I did quit at the beginning, and everyone would have let me, you know, I mean, it's like, and most people would have just— what's funny, dude, and I hope people pick up the fucking analogies of all this stuff, but you know, when I bailed on the mountain, dude, everyone was like, it's okay, you did good anyway, it's okay, you did your best, you did— you mean everyone reasoned? I'm like, I wish someone would tell me I was being a bitch.

I wish you would have called me.

I wish I would have too. You know what I learned in that thing? You know what the biggest mistake I made? Remember that, that dude that was speaking the night before? I don't remember his name, but he does all kinds of—

yeah, because his name's right below mine on the board. Ken Wright.

Don't quit alone. Yeah, that rule. Don't quit when you're alone. Yep. It's like, if you're gonna quit, quit with someone else, you know what I mean? Like, I— ah, bro. I didn't know. I was like, mentally, dude, I was whacked. But I'm like, I— that, that saying of his, because he would— he not made— he didn't finish something, some obnoxious 100-mile across, whatever it was. And he's like, I failed, I quit when I was by myself. And I'm like, that's what I did. I went to my room by myself.

And my wife, anyway, she was like, okay, yeah, I quit by myself my first one. But well, I was me and my buddy quit together, but we were by ourselves. Yeah, yeah.

You weren't with someone with the smarts.

Yeah, he was in agreeance.

That's like some of y'all that talk to your buddies who suck at this too. Yeah, it's like, don't do that.

Yeah, I went to the guy that was already quit, correct? And he was quitting. I was like, oh, I can quit.

And they'll, they'll like validate it for you. Yeah, that's okay.

Yeah, so, and that's like in this business, and I tell people all the time, it's when that first time, if I would have just gone to a coach or gone to someone else to say, this is what's going on, what should I do? They could have walked with honestly maybe 10 seconds of a talk.

Agreed.

Good.

Agreed.

But I just didn't do it.

I did the same thing, dude. And I look back and I'm like, I would never do that in business. I would never, you know, I mean, I'd be like, yo, I need some help here. But I just— man, it was like 2:30 in the morning. I did— I walked in the hotel with 3 people that were all on the same round as I was. I could easily be like, yo, what time you want to start? And I wouldn't have let someone else down in that moment, you know. But dude, sometimes when you get in your head, man, you make really poor choices.

Yeah, it's when you're down, it's like you're worn out, you're physically worn out, mentally worn out, and then you're just like, you just don't want to hear what, yeah, you know, you need to hear. And it's like, have you— my buddy that went with us, um, he quit after 2.

Yep.

And then my wife held him at the bottom and wouldn't let him go back to the room, and I tried to talk to him and he wouldn't speak to me. He would just not shake his head. And then our coach actually broke into his hotel room and got him out of there to get him to do 2 more.

No way.

Yes, but it's— he had— if he didn't have someone willing to break in his hotel room, he would have stopped it too. It's true.

So dude, it's hard to— every day I'm like, oh, there's 3 more. I've been done, you know what I mean? I'm like, ah. I heard, uh, do you— you've seen that guy Ryan Serhant? Yeah, from the Million Dollar Listing. I like his stuff. I'm a big fan of his things. Hey, I was watching a talk he gave the other day, and he said, if you're gonna quit something, quit on your best day. And in real estate, his example was quit on the— quit the week or the day that you make— that you close 2 deals. You know what I mean? Like, when you're on the high, if you want to quit, then quit. But when you quit on your worst day, like, that ain't good. Yeah. You know, I was like, that's very similar to the don't quit by yourself kind of thing. It's like the mindset of it.

I was at a thing once, it was with a guy named Cleve McClary. He was a— I think he was in the military, I think it was the Marines. And he's like, you see people kill themselves, and he's like, I'm all for people killing themselves, but just don't shoot yourself or do something quick. You're like, kill yourself by running yourself to death. Yeah, yeah, then you got time to think about it. He's like, if you can kill yourself running to death, you're committed to it. But if you can't—

yeah, so It's insane, dude. It's, it's wild how relatable a lot of this stuff is to everyday business. Um, nuts and bolts stuff for like agents, what do you— what advice do you give people getting started to like have success? It's like, hey, I want to come in, I want to make 10 grand, sell, you know what I mean? Like whatever the number is. Um, what are the big tips?

I mean, stuff we've talked about, but it's just, it's how complicated people make things that are super simple. And it's the ability to just do the things that you know you're supposed to do that are super easy. And they're almost— I know when I started the business and I remember our phone scripts and the in-home, it was so basic. I was almost like, that's not going to work. Yeah. Yeah. And it's everything. And as you've gotten— as I've gotten more successful and around more successful people, the people that are super successful and stuff, they've just figured out how to simplify things more and more. And I think as a new agent, you try to complicate stuff, but knowing success is simple.

Yeah.

And even people that have achieved way more than I have, watching what they do, they've just met the things I'm comp— I'm always trying to figure out what I'm still complicating that they've mastered to simplify. So as a new person, it's keeping it simple. And I always say, get around people having results. The worst thing I see happen with new agents It's kind of what we're just talking about with the mountains, but it's— they like to get around the people similar to them doing the same things, and they come up their own, their own ways, and it's, it's like comfortable. Yeah. And it's such a long road, you know, if, if you can get through it. Um, and it's, it's having success is success, you know.

It doesn't really matter if it's insurance or what the principles are, what they are.

You follow the exact same. It's this— it's true, you know. You— I watch a lot of football and watch a lot of like coaches and how they talk and it's the same thing, you know, it's just, it's the same blueprint. Yeah, it's just different industry.

Yeah, a little different terminology sometimes. Like I even watched Maddox at 12 playing baseball and dude, they're teaching Maddox the same stuff we're teaching agents. Yeah, the concepts of it, you know what I mean? It's like he's got to take up, he's got to have a lot of reps, he's going to take a lot of ground balls. It's okay to make mistakes. Attitude and effort controls everything, you know what I mean? They're like, he— they always have this saying, like, uh, what else he say? It's slow is smooth and smooth is fast, you know what I mean? It's like the principles are the same as teaching a 12-year-old baseball as to having killer success in this industry. And I was one of those that wanted to overcomplicate everything early on, dude. Analytical as shit, and just, you know what I mean? Just, I always find it funny, bro, that new agents think they know the reason, the reasons that they're not having success. I'm like, wait, you're the one not having success, but you know the reason why you're not, but you're still not? Yeah, I'm thinking your reasoning is not right.

Yeah, I always find it funny with the people too that think they can learn from somebody who's not doing well because they're like, well, I'll just do what they're, what they're doing. I won't do what they're doing. Yeah, but I'll learn what they're doing so I don't do it. And I'm like, They're not not having success because everything they do is wrong. They're not having success because they have a couple tweaks they need to make that they're not willing to make. Yeah, it's true. And, and it's like they, they're doing good in some areas, and if you don't do that, you're going to kill yourself too. It's— yeah, that's why it's like getting around someone that's really good like yourself and just can point out those tweaks, you know, and just be— it's kind of like on the mountain. It's, it's like, I wish you would have called me because I would have said like, dude, it's okay.

I'm such a dumbass. It's like this weird, like, you fall into like this— I don't know, ego is the right word, but it's like this timid to reach out, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, in the moment you don't, but looking back I'm like, God, that would have been such an easy call.

Yeah, and once you— it's— I think when you get to a level of having proven success and you start and you get good at self-reflecting— I, I'm a big self-reflector looking back when things don't work out, and I'm like, what did I say there? How'd this go bad? And when you get good at that, it's really easy to self-analyze things. And it's just more— almost every single time I think I do bad, I didn't check with a mentor. Yeah, it's almost like, oh, I got this, I can figure it out. And then some— it's almost like God giving me a reality check all the time. It's like, yeah, you're not that good.

Yeah, ain't that the truth, bro. Like, yeah, you learn that quick when you start figuring some stuff out. And it's like, I you know, get a lot of credit for stuff. And I'm like, right, I'm good at a couple things and that's about it. And I'm relative to what's out there, I don't think I'm doing that, yeah, anything amazing, you know what I mean? It's like I'm just doing my best to help people. Um, but it's just cool to see someone else like yourself, like similar, where I just always try to be around people and learn and soak things up and how can I get better at different things, you know what I mean? Like you're like, hell, I'm in Atlanta, can I come by? And you've been taking notes all day and sharing stuff with your team. It's really neat to see, you know. And I'm super grateful to be able to at least help a little bit, given all the shit I've learned from you over the years.

Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. It's like I'm taking notes and it's stuff that I've known, but it's, it's one of those things that's like, just because someone's known it in the past doesn't mean they know it now.

True.

And like, I wouldn't say anything that— there's a couple things that jumped out to me, but they're most of the things I've been taking notes on. It's like, I've known this, I've they just stopped doing it. Yeah, you know what I mean? And it's like, we always joke, it's like when something starts working, it's a good time to stop, you know? It seems like everything at work, you stop doing it. It's like, oh, it's like taking notes in there. I'm like, shoot, why'd I stop doing that? Shoot, why'd I stop doing that?

It's really easy to do, bro. Yeah, I mean, it's— we all fall into that a little bit. You get a little complacent, not on purpose, but you know what I mean? This little— and just, there's so much to do sometimes. Like you said earlier, dude, I think sometimes we do want to overcomplicate this thing. Yeah, and make it like as you get big, like, like I'm special. Yeah, because like, correct. Damn, this, this thing is pretty simple at its core. Um, so it's, it's, I don't know, dude, I've had, I've had fun, fun on the journey. Um, I guess anything else you want to add in terms of whatever advice to give people or insight, or— he's a wide open dude, you've done this long enough to know.

I mean, it's just, um For me, what's always worked is challenging myself. We were talking about that earlier. It's just, if you're not challenging yourself, you're not growing.

Yeah.

And I find it like, I'm, I'm super competitive. I know you are. And I'm a big fan that you're competing with yourself. And I think the greats of the greats figure out how to compete with themselves. But sometimes when you're only competing with yourself, you're not really that impressive because what you're beating is not that big of a deal. So you always have— I, I always look at someone else. Now, I don't do it to be like I'm trying to hurt them or destroy them, but I have to— where especially spots I'm not good at, I have to know my weaknesses and start somewhere. Because if I'm just beating my, my terrible self at something and my weaknesses, I'm like, I'm not really accomplishing anything. So I try to raise the bar there. And it's one of those things where I have— like, even fitness, like, I, I'm not a gym guy. I don't like getting the— there's a lot of people out there that workout all the time and like the way that I don't care, you know, I want to live a long time. So I know it's important, but it, yeah, it's these things that I trick myself to do it. And then once you start doing it, it's building those habits that you, you kind of miss and you kind of miss things to do. And same thing in business, same thing in fitness, same thing in whatever you're trying to accomplish. I need targets. Yeah, to motivate me.

Yeah, I'm—

because I don't I'll procrastinate in a second, you know. And it's like with these mountains, it's like, you know the date when it's gonna happen, so if you're not gonna be ready— yeah, if you're not ready, you're just gonna— you're gonna get hit. And it's, um, it's, it's in business, it's like putting the targets out there, being competitive with yourself, but also pushing yourself to something real. Yeah, like, um And, and it's amazing to me what you can accomplish when you set a target. And the thing always drives me nuts is people say, we're like, realistic goals. What I find with realistic goals are they're like, oh, those are just so easy, you're gonna do it anyways. Yeah. Um, I'd rather miss a massive goal than go after a realistic one, dude.

A lot of times when I— you've seen me obviously working with some agents recently, and when I ask people, they're goals, they give them to me, and I always go like, why is that your goal? And the most common answer I get is that it's realistic. And I always ask people, I'm like, define realistic. What does that mean? And they literally get stuck, dude. And it's just like this— to them it seems easily attainable. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, so you're not pushing yourself at all? That's what realistic sounds like to me.

And it's crazy, if I look back in the 17 years I've been in this business, when I've had my biggest jumps I would have told you before that happened it was unrealistic. Yeah, but they occurred. Yeah, you know what I mean? And it's kind of like just completing those 3 Ultra Mountain Marathons in 3 days. A year ago when my coach told me about it and I signed up for it, I have never run a marathon, a half marathon, 5K. Like, I've never done any of those. So I was just like, I guess got a year to do it. But even when, like, a couple weeks before, I did not feel ready.

Dude, when we were at— in Whistler, you were like, I don't think I'm gonna make this thing.

Yeah, I was ready to back out, but I, I committed to it.

I knew you were gonna finish, dude. I saw you tear that mountain up. I saw you for like 3 minutes. I'm like, oh, there he goes, see you later.

But it's one of those things, it's just like the unrealistic things is where the, where the magic's at. Yeah, you know, and if you don't—

I love that.

If you don't realistically know that you— if you're going to live life in realistic stuff, you're never going to have amazing crazy things happen.

That's so sick. I love that. I love that. What's your next target? Now I want to know both sides, business and personal. Um, well, fitness if you want, whatever you want.

I'm not real fit, so, um, I mean, you say that business-wise. I mean, Um, it's funny, after I completed my first mountain, I remember Jesse saying to us, he's like, whatever, now that you've completed this, when you go back, whatever your business plan is, double it. So my business plan is to double my, yep, my target. So it's doubling what we do in production, um, a month is, is my number one goal right now in business-wise. And then basically fitness-wise, it's just, it's a, it's always a journey for me. Yeah, you know, it's not like I'm trying to become a professional athlete anymore.

You ain't getting no younger, bro.

Yeah, yeah, the NBA is not looking for 48-year-old point guards, you know. So it's just fitness-wise, I'm just trying to get— I'm trying to keep myself fit, you know. And that's a battle for me every day because I'm, like I said, I'm not the gym guy. So I'm doing more mountains next year too because I just know it, it tricks me into working out. Yeah, you know, it tricks me into working out. And it's like, right now it's the furthest point away of the year from my next one, so that's why my workouts have been so sporadic lately. But I know I've got to get back and turn it on. Yeah, I got to turn it on and get ready.

I've had to turn it on now because I was behind you. I physically— like, people are like, dude, you're— but this is a different kind of shape and the mental.

Well, no offense, but when we went there, because we, we kind of rekindled a little bit before when I saw you were doing it, and then, um but you've beat me so bad in business. I told my buddies, I said, no matter what happens, I'm beating him on the mountain. I've never told you that, but I was like— and I didn't know what— how good you'd be at the mountain or whatever, but I just said— I told my buddy, I was like, I'm walking with you unless he's beating me, and then I'm starting to run. So my goal was— I love it, dude. I was like, he's beaten me enough at this point, I'm getting this one. That's— I was like, in my—

love it.

So I was telling all my buddies, I was like, see that guy there? I was like, I love him to death and he's a good friend, but I was like, he ain't crushing him.

I did not, dude. You were gone. So you were gone.

So I added a little, um, little motivation. Yeah, a little motivation.

Put a little pep in your step. I'm surprised you didn't wear your red hat here then.

I don't wear them. They're more de— you— well, you see them enough on my decorations on the wall. Oh God, they're like my trophies, I guess.

Dude, I have so much of the stuff at my house that I bought before, cuz I Everyone in my world was like, oh, he's— it was predetermined I was gonna finish, no problem. Oh, I knew. Everyone around me knew. I was like— they were like, nah, he'll be done, he'll finish, no problem.

I knew.

And dude, something slipped.

I had the same thing the first year when I didn't finish. Everyone was like, you'll do great, you'll do great, you'll do it, I know who you are, you'll finish it, finish it. And I thought I would too. I had zero doubt when we got there. I actually remember telling my buddies the night before, I was like, I think I'll finish by 10:00 PM. I was pretty much finished at 10:00 PM, but I was dead. But, but, um, and it's crazy. It's just— and when you can— when you come back, they're all like, well, you did so great, I'm so proud of you, you got that many. And I'm just like, piss inside, just eating away at me. Yeah, eating away.

And I don't even have one to talk about it after with the people. I'm like, it was fun. The first 3 days back, I was like, how many times do I have to tell this story? Just leave me alone. But it put something in me. Yeah, I got more work to do, bro. Yeah, we got more work to do. And I try to not take for granted the business side either, like I did that side, you know what I mean? Because I'm like, I'm in good enough shape. And you know what I do, bro? I watch the videos and I judge people, and I'm like, oh, they did— I can do that. Look at that, I can do it, no problem.

That marathon thing, I watched some of the people finish, I was like, why? I was like, I don't understand it at all.

So it's like, man, you can do crazy if you put your mind in the right spot. You can do some crazy things in life, business, fitness, whatever. So it's been cool. You've challenged me in a new way for sure. Now I gotta keep up with your speed next. Now it's gonna be a race next year.

Oh gosh, it's But the cool thing too is—

how old are you? Did you say you're 48?

Yeah, I just turned 48.

Shit, so you're a tad older. I'm 48 in March. Okay, so you're born in '76 then? Yeah, I'm '77, March '77. Damn, I got no excuse.

But it's— it's the cool thing too is when you put yourself in environments like the mountain thing. Yeah, like there's no way I would go out and just do it on my own. Yeah, you know what I mean? And but when you're in an environment with people that are And that's one thing I love about the events and, and in this business, it's the tightness that you get with people that are in the battle with you. Yeah, like those— the guys I've become friends with on the mountain, I've only known them for a couple days in my entire life, if you think about it, but we're really good friends. It's because we battled through stuff together. Yeah, even though as we each had our own battle, we battled through stuff together. It's kind of like how we've stayed friends. It's like regardless of what we do now we've battled through similar stuff and we know. So it's kind of like that smoke of battle stuff on you.

Sure.

Having people— it's one of the things in my team I try to do with my guys is I like the guys that go through the smoke of battle. Yeah. You know, and that's why I said there's only a handful of them that I, that I, I really truly have done it. But those guys, the bond and the tightness that you have is just— it's there. Yeah, it's true.

It's true. It's been, it's been cool, some of the people. Which obviously run in a lot of same circles along the way in this business. It's like, yeah, without that crew, yeah, bro, I don't know what I'm doing in life right now.

And the cool thing is like, it's almost like we hadn't talked in probably 10 years. Yeah. And then, but we're do— we, we've gone through similar things in that 10 years, and then we're doing another thing similar, and it's kind of like we just jump right back in. It's like, it's— you don't, you don't need— we didn't need to talk every day for 10 years. We It was just boom. Yeah. Okay, let's do it. It's true.

It's true. It's been cool, dude. I appreciate you coming up and getting on and sharing.

Thanks for everything you do for us.

Yeah, always, bro. Appreciate you.

Thank you.

See y'all on the next one. Later.