This Insurance Sales System Made Me $2 MILLION in 3 Years ft. Jamie Chirio | Ep98

it's not going to stay the same. Like, I don't think there's ever been a time in the 5 years I've been selling insurance that I've ever worked a single lead type for a whole year. Like, things change, you know. Facebook goes crazy and your leads don't work anymore, and now you're doing this lead, that lead. Like, you have to be flexible, willing to evolve. You have to move fast. If you're not flexible and able to move fast, like, you just get crushed in this business.

Welcome on to the next episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. You're going to be number Reese just told me you're gonna be number 98, so I'm almost at 100.

Let's go!

Yeah, so we're getting there, knocking these bitches out, and it's growing, and you know, helping people grow and their business too. So having a lot of fun with it, brother. Appreciate you taking the time. For those that don't know, Jamie Cheerio is a savage in the space, sells a lot of insurance, multi-year, I think what, 3-time Hall of Fame producer, has a, has a good-sized agency. I can never keep track of how much, but I know y'all sell a shitload of insurance and, uh, own, own a couple other interesting companies we'll talk about and doing some cool things in the industry. Hell, helping me sell a bunch of insurance.

Yes, sir.

You know, so appreciate you getting on, dude. Um, the Lead Champ thing has been, been fun, so I'm sure we'll get to talk about that. But would love for you to give them the, you know, the normal, uh, intro, how you got into the space. And, you know, I know, I know you now, you focus a lot on kind of the higher-end stuff, so on a lot of IULs and truckers and all kinds of crazy stuff, but I know you've, you've done it all.

Yeah, I mean, I started just like you, uh, in the home, but, um, I've got, um, 13 businesses under my belt in 9 years. Most of them, uh, complete and utter failures. Some of them were, um, awesome successes until just the rug got pulled out from underneath me. So I'm happy to say that insurance is the longest business that I've ever been in, um, which is great, like just being in one business. So that is good news. I think it's something that, um, like my first company I was ever part of, I'm I'm gonna bring my grandkids to these conventions. And, you know, obviously that's not the case. Um, but I'm, uh, I'm 32 now. I got started in entrepreneurship when I was 18. I was actually selling energy drinks to college students, um, and that's how I met Grady Poulsen. So Grady's one of my oldest friends, and his dad was one of my first mentors in network marketing. And I got, uh, you know, timing was a really cool thing. We were selling energy drinks to college kids all over the world. We built a team of about, uh, 10,000 young people that were selling Drinks. And then the FTC came in and shut down the company because of income claims and all kinds of crazy YouTube videos telling kids to drop out of college to, you know, to do this opportunity. And we were made an example of. And, um, that's the reason why there's an income disclosure statement at the bottom of every single compensation plan, is because of, of that case with that company. So shut up. Yeah, so a lot of fun. And I was, you know, 19 You know, I had a penthouse and a BMW and, you know, I had all the cool things. And then by the time I was mid-20s, I was filing bankruptcy, you know, 4 or 5 businesses in, kind of jumped from sales organization to sales organization and then was totally jaded at building sales teams, decided I will go the traditional business route. I'll start a digital marketing business. It was wildly successful until My CFO ended up embezzling like $50,000 from us, and then the company had to shut down. And, you know, that company is no longer a thing. And then as I was transitioning out, I got back in contact with Grady, one of my oldest friends, obviously a legend in the insurance industry, kind of similar level to you. And, um, he's like, hey man, I know that you would crush it selling insurance. You've also told me that you're pretty jaded at building sales teams. Why don't you come in as a staff member and help me run my marketing department? So I came into Grady's organization as his director of marketing, did that for about a year. And then there's only so many, you know, John made his first sale images that you can make. And a lot of these images and, you know, so-and-so had a big week before you're like, if that person can do it, I can do it. And there's people from my previous organization that, you know, no offense to them whatsoever, but I was, you know, at a much further, um, a much higher, um, place in that organization than some of these people were. And they were coming over into insurance, and, you know, they're having, you know, $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 weeks. And I'm seeing them, and I'm like, oh my goodness, that person who in that organization, you know, was nothing special is over here.

Brady was recruiting people from the previous deal? Yes, as well. Got it.

Absolutely. So, um, you know, kind of perfect swarm of timing. Um, everything that happened with COVID— I know we're not supposed to talk about that, but, um, you know, that all, you know, some compliance thing, things get taken off YouTube anytime you mention COVID. Um, but it was a perfect storm for me because I, um— and again, this is my business PTSD because my business got shut down for us saying stupid stuff on the internet.

Um, I'm shocked I'm still on the internet, bro, to be honest.

For sure. Um, so, you know, I ended up getting my license because, you know, when all of the COVID stuff happened. My wife was a school teacher and her job basically went away because they said, hey, we're going to virtual, we don't need as many teachers. And she's like, okay, I'm good. So she was, you know, veteran teacher, but she's like, I'm good, I want to be a mom. So now it's like, okay, now it's time for you to be a provider. You know, I'm making $60,000, $70,000 a year, you know, as a marketing director. And Grady's like, you should get your license. So I said, okay, you know, let's do this. Got my license in 6 days. And then, you know, went out at the peak of COVID My first home I ever sat in, you know, had to sit in there with, you know, a mask on my face. And for the first, you know, probably 6 months, um, I'm in Oregon, which is like the craziest possible place to run during, um, during that time. And, you know, I can't tell facial expressions, and, you know, I'm selling insurance in the home across the kitchen table from people. So it was a wild experience, you know, over the course of The 2.5 years that I was in Oregon, I probably sat in close to 3,000 homes. You know, I sold close to $2 million in the home. Um, and then we moved to South Carolina and everything telesales. And then kind of that was a whole transition, you know, going from the—

very different—

to selling over the phone. Um, it was a really something I overcomplicated. One day I looked at my leaderboard and the top 25, 24 of the 25 were all selling over the phone, and I was the only person left who still in the home. So I was like, okay, well, I guess the team decided for me, and if I don't figure this out, then, you know, they're no longer going to be able to learn anything from me. You know, maybe from like a high-level perspective, but how am I going to— person started— if you were to ask anybody, you want to go sell in the home and drive 200 to 300 miles a day, or you want to sell over the phone, every single person was choosing over the phone. So that was a journey to figure that out, to take some of these things that felt really complicated, felt really big, and simplify them to make it so now it's no big deal. And then of course, you've got the general evolution of when I was sitting in the home, I was selling final expense internet leads, and then it was a big deal to transition into mortgage protection. It felt like a whole new thing. And then to transition from mortgage protection into IULs, a more complicated sale, and realizing through it all it's just life insurance. A lead's a lead, and at the end of the day, most of these lead types are just a fancy in for, you know, why they want the insurance. So, you know, kind of coming to all those conclusions, it's like the person that I was when I started, you know, and what I do today, it's just evolved so much. So your lead type's going to evolve. Your, you know, the way you do your presentations are going to evolve. Your average premium per home should be going up every year. Um, and like, these are things that I look back on and I go, okay, you know, my first year my average premium was what, you know, $600, $700. You know, next year it was about $1,200. You know, now my average premium right now, um, is probably about $3,300 per sale. So, um, again, like, if we're not improving, like, we have to look back because it's like what we're doing, it's not going to stay the same. Like, I don't think there's ever been a time in the 5 years I've been selling insurance that I've ever worked a single lead type for a whole year. Like, things change, you know. Facebook goes crazy and your leads don't work anymore, and now you're doing this lead, that lead. Like, you have to be flexible, willing to evolve, um, and like, you have to move fast. If you're not flexible and able to move fast, like, you just get crushed in this business.

Yeah, I find it funny that the folks that are like, I found the magic lead, I am killing it on this, and I'm like, oh boy, give it 2 weeks, hard landing. It's gonna be a hard landing. Yeah. You know, even the good one. Again, we all, we're all looking for a better quality lead for sure, but at the end of the day, dude, as you know, variety matters most typically so you don't get, you don't get whacked. Something's coming, it always does. You know, that's dope.

I think that's some of my business PTSD has served me well in insurance because I, you know, it works for and against me. You know, it works kind of against my social life, um, but You know, I'm afraid everything's gonna fall apart at all times, so I'm constantly trying to be aware of these things.

Yeah, how's that? Um, I'm like that, dude. I'm like, are we scared? And I don't know how healthy it is.

Yeah, no, it's, it's not, but, um, it's like a superpower, but it's not super healthy.

Yeah, I wonder some days I'm like, I don't know, you know, people make shit up in their head and that's why they can't pick up the phone and I'm I'm like, I make shit up in my head and that's why I can't stop working.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Now, craziness. How does one get then— how do we— because we're, you know, most people on here, quite frankly, they're, you know, teaching people how to kind of get out the gate and figure out how to, you know, make their original sales, things like that. But I like the way you said it as far as kind of increasing year by year your average premium. Um, and I can relate a lot, dude. I'm just dinking around in the house, as you know, you know, I've talked, uh, with, with telesales just because, and I'm still selling basic final expense, dude. My average premium is like $2,000 on final expense.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I would love, um, and I've not really trained on it a ton in my internal team, sure, but not on, not on this platform. So would love some— let's talk about that a little bit. How does, how does one get to, you know, and I, I, I want to preface, this is not going to be a magic lead. Yeah, promise. Um, but would love to, you know, how do you go about increasing that average premium for, for people? And obviously, yeah, you know, the, the work smarter, not harder saying that I absolutely hate, but if you work smarter and harder, $3,300 an app, you do 10 of those suckers a week, life is good.

Totally. Um, well, in the wise words of, uh, of Hayden Hill, he told us really early on, he said, show bigger numbers. Like, that was like such a mind-blowing thing. He's like, show bigger numbers. And I remember hearing that and I was like, that's like, that can't be how you're writing someone. You're just showing bigger numbers. He's like, I'm just not afraid. He's like, they might say no, and you can talk it back. He's like, but I'm not afraid to show the big number because every now and then the person says yes. Like, I wrote up a, you know, a $900 a month, um, you know, simplified IUL for a trucker the other day. You know, he didn't really care about the cash value. He just wanted something. He wanted the living benefits. It made sense for him. Actually, at his age, was cheaper than a term policy. And, you know, with all the guarantees, it's like a 40-year term. And if You know, the market does what it's supposed to do. It'll last to age 100. So he was super happy with that. But if I wouldn't have shown him the big number, you know, I could have just, you know, you say things to like people like, you know, what's your budget? Or how much coverage are you looking for? And you kind of pigeonhole yourself because they'll tell you and then they'll get kind of stuck on that one thing. But learning how to, I guess, just kind of peel apart everything. Like we use a financial inventory. I'm sure that, you know, you've taught agents to use some, you know, version of that. But it's like, I'm trying to get a picture of what is your financial situation going to look like if something happens. So, when we're talking final expense, most of the time I'm sitting there focused on whoever the beneficiary is. So, we got John and Mary, and it's like, okay, well, if John passes away, what is Mary's financial situation going to be? We're not thinking about living benefits, IULs, we're just talking strict final expenses. Well, Mary, could Mary come out of her pocket to take care of a funeral? Could Mary come out of her pocket to even handle these bills. So like learning how to, you know, sit there and be like, okay, John makes $1,700 a month in Social Security and VA disability, and Mary makes $800 a month in Social Security. Okay, when John passes away, VA disability goes away, and she's going to keep the greater of the two Social Securities. So now Mary's money goes away. Now her new income is $900 a month when their household income was $2,700 a month or whatever those numbers would add up to be. And sitting there painting that picture for John and being like, John, now based on everything we talked about between your mortgage, your car, and your basic bills, your expenses are $1,300 a month, and that's before food. So it's like, okay, what are we going to do here if something happens to you? How's Mary going to pay for a funeral, let alone even, even figure it out? So it's like painting these pictures because at the end of the day it is— it's of course logical, but it also has to be emotional. Like, I'm big on the logic side because I deal with now a lot of people who are looking for like retirement-type policies, or they're just, you know, at a different point in their life where they want these— they're younger, they want living benefits. So a lot of times you're thinking logic, you're doing numbers. With the final expense, you know, it's an emotional sale. It's 100% an emotional sale because like most of the people I sell with living benefits, they're like, yeah, of course I want my wife to have money when I die, no-brainer. But they're more concerned with, I'm 45, if I become sick or disabled and I can't work, what happens? Like they're more concerned with that. What happens if I live and can't work? So it's more logical for them than it is emotional, whereas with final expense there's a lot of emotions tied up in it. So, um, One of the biggest things that I've done to increase premium, or did to increase premium with final expenses, you know, I would show some of the bigger numbers that include everything. So it's like I find out the why of, okay, well, you know, if I'm hearing, you know, if I'm pimping— now I'm going to paint this picture for them of like, here's what I see. I see that, you know, you make $2,700 as a household, it's going to go down to $900. And, you know, when something happens, you know, she might have to move out, she might have to sell the house, she might have to do this. It's gonna be really hard to pay for this. So like, you know, John, if I'm hearing this correctly, like in a perfect world you'd want her to be able to like pay for your funeral and you'd also want her to be able to, you know, have some income replacement for a certain period of time. Like life insurance isn't really meant to make anybody rich, but like you think if we gave your wife like a year or 2 years worth of income replacement she'd be able to figure it out? You know, she'd at least have some time to figure out? Yeah, for sure. So I'm like, okay, well if we take all that, you know, $10,000 for a funeral $15,000 for a funeral depending on what they want. And you know, all right, we've got about $1,000, $2,000 income loss. All right, a $50,000 policy is going to get you X. Like, okay, this might get you 2 years of income replacement and take care of a funeral. And they go, well, that's too expensive. Okay, how about 1 year of income replacement? Well, that's still too expensive. Okay, well, let's just— at bare minimum, we know we need to take care of the funeral. So she doesn't have to come out of pocket $10,000. So it's like I'm showing the bigger numbers and then rather than going, oh, $250,000 is too much. How about $230,000? How about $220,000? How about $180,000? Instead, you make it emotional and you go, instead of 2 years' worth 1 year's worth of income? Now they're like, smart. Look, I don't know about that because like, I don't know if she could survive on 1 year's worth of income. I think I want her to have 2 or, you know, So I'm always pulling benefits rather than decreasing the price, because if it's just about price, like, they're going to pick whatever you tell them to pick that's the lowest price. So I'd rather like build up all the benefits, you know. So whether that was, you know, final expense, mortgage protection, whatever, a general life insurance sale, you know, you show somebody a, you know, a term policy that has living benefits and they're like, that's too expensive, okay, we can find you a cheap term. But we're going to find something that has no living benefits.

No benefits.

And then they're like, but I want the living benefits. I go, okay, well, you can't have as much coverage. It's like, you can't, you can't have it all. So learning how to do it all based on value, and then of course just not being afraid to show bigger numbers. And then also like not being afraid to ask about their finances. Like, I'm not trying— I, I ask things, I use words like, um, ballpark how much. I say ballpark probably like 100 times during a presentation because I'm not trying to make them think that I'm like trying to dig into their finances. Hey, they're like, hey, why do you know that? Listen, I actually don't really care how much money you make. I'm just trying to get a general idea of, you know, what would make sense for you, because we need to make sure that whatever it is that you do get, we've agreed that general concept of this insurance, it sounds like a good idea. It's important to you. Now we need to find something that fits your budget. We need to find something that's not going to keep you up at night, something that's not going to raise your blood pressure. You know, because if it keeps you up at night, you're going to cancel it, period. So we need to find something that's a no-brainer for you. And some people have good income and really large policies, you know, from our perspective. Like, it's, you know, when I first got started, I hated showing bigger numbers because I'm like, I would never spend $500 a month.

Yeah.

And then you find people who, like, they're like, you know, I have people who, they make $2,300 a month and they have no problem spending $500 a month on their life insurance. Like, I remember there was one particular home I remember sitting in and this family was on fixed income, and they were— it was such little income, like they were making as a household maybe $900 a month. And I remember sitting in their home and they were emotional, and they're like, no, we need this coverage. And I'm like, guys, this is like 25% of your income. And they're like, listen, we live so frugally, and I'm not going to do this to my kids because when my parents passed away, you know, all the kids had to argue and split up the funeral, and certain kids paid for more than the other kids. And, you know, now everyone resents each other because so-and-so paid $7,000 for the funeral and so-and-so only paid $2,000. I'm not doing that to my kids. I don't care how much because that policy is still on the books. I check in with them every year and I remember that. I'm like, that's 25% of their income, but it was that important to them. So we have to kind of figure those things out. And it's like, you know, don't judge what somebody can afford. You know, we have to ask them. We got to figure out what's going on and how important it is to them.

If you're an insurance agent and you feel like you're stuck, you've hit a wall, trying to figure out sales strategies, the scripts to use, how to get like off the ground and get to that top of the leaderboard type status, I have a course that I've put out, super affordable. I'm getting a ton of great feedback from people every day on the strategies they've learned and been able to implement, from goal setting to sales techniques to calendar scheduling, everything you would need to get your business off the ground and get running quickly. JWCourse.com, click the link below and get in there today. Yeah, I love it, dude. It's, it's slick. Instead of— you hear most people selling final expense, they're just— the only thing they clarify is between like cremation and burial. That's it. That, you know, and they show them, here's your cremation price, here's your burial price. It's like, whoa, we're missing out a lot, you know. But I agree, dude. I can look back on my entire career, you know, you're always Somewhat surprised in some sense when someone picks a big one, you're like, holy smoke, doing the commission in your head while they're picking that price and stuff. But of all the big ones I've sold, dude, an overwhelming majority I would not have sold when I was new because I wouldn't have shown the price. And I was— it's— you learn to not be surprised by it, but it's like, I wouldn't have bet on that one picking that price. Yeah, you know, um, which, which is very similar to recruiting. I'm like, some of the agents, those of us that kill it, I'm like you know, I wouldn't have bet on that guy, but damn, he killed it, you know.

Yeah, almost every good agent I've ever got, I did not have a great feeling about when I hired them. But also, I look at it like, I know how screwed up I am. As much as, like, I just— I was talking to Sean Mike about this recently, and I was like, um, I just want to hire good people. He's like, what do you mean you just want to hire good people? And he goes, someone hired you, you're pretty messed up. And I was like, yeah, I came into this business with $50,000 in debt to the IRS and I'm fresh off of bankruptcy and someone hired me. So I'm like, who the heck am I to judge some of these people? And I'm like, he goes, you know, you're never going to find good agents only looking for good agents. He's like, you got to hire everybody and then you'll find good agents. I'm like, uh, like, you know, you forget the basics.

Yeah, some of the simplest shit he says is like, like Yeah, light bulb moment. It's funny, dude. Um, talk a little bit about, um, you know, people— I, I got this guy that's sending me, and you would know him, God bless him. He'll— if he watches it, he'll figure out I'm talking about him. I do like him, but he's now sending all these messages, and his, his, his message to the insurance world is there's no money in final expense, you can't— there's no good business, none of it sticks. So, and we are going to talk about the IUL side of things as well, but from, from just a basic level entry, entry-level agent standpoint, and give them some insight into like how to, how to, how to write good stuff, how to keep it on the books, how to, how to make sure that, you know, you don't turn it— because there are agents out there that have shitty persistency, freaking 40%, 50%, and they get terminated. But as you know, you start looking at agency level, dude, I was looking at ours the other day, our agency total persistency. It was like 85-point-something.

Wow.

I'm like, it's not bad, you know? And that includes the dingbats.

Yeah.

So would love for you to, you know, how does one go about writing good business and, and how do you go about keeping that shit on the books?

Yeah, 100%. Um, I mean, obviously like selling out of desperation like is never, never a good look for anybody, and it's never going to, to go well. Every single time that I've ever been in a situation where I you know, have been selling out of desperation. It has never worked out well, and there's always been a wave of chargebacks that have come, um, after you start, you know, shortcutting things and you start, um, not giving the full explanation of what's going to happen next, and you just do a lot of assumption of like, hey, go grab this, let's do this, we're just gonna, you know, see if you can get approved, you know, don't worry, you know, you never have to pay, you know, just like, yeah. They stupid shit. Um, so of course, like, we have to avoid that. Like, our human nature, like, it happens. I've done it. Like, I'm not going to sit here and, you know, ever lie to agents and be like, oh, I've never been the person who's ever made a sale that probably knew was going to charge back. Of course I have, but I've also learned some lessons from it. Um, so a couple different things. Like, when I was in the home doing final expense, um, I had a 96% persistency. Now, um, I had, uh, and then I went to telesales and it dropped to 62%. So like, well, that's a whole different conversation. Um, but 96% because I did a lot of extra stuff. Um, I think every agent knows that they should leave something behind. I think every agent knows that they should call the person to see if their policy came in the mail. I think every agent knows they should, you know, make sure that person, you know, their number saved in your phone, that you, you reach out to them again. Um, every agent knows they probably should send a thank you card. You know, they know they probably should make sure the person can afford it. Yeah, all these different things. And, um, most agents just kind of like— we're— especially if you're in— if you sell leads, which I'm assuming most your audience does, um, we're lead junkies and we just kind of want to make a sale and move on to the next one. And then we go— you hear something like, uh, 30% of everything you write is going to fall off the books and you just go, got it, cost of doing business, let's keep moving.

Yep.

And there's a way that it doesn't have to be 30, 40% falls off the books. It's just a little bit of extra effort. So for me, it came down to having staff that helped because there was no possible way that I could do it at a high level. Like in the beginning, it wasn't that hard for me to like to follow up and do some things. But after a while, it's like I cannot spend a minute on the phone with a carrier. I have to keep moving. And me writing these thank you cards and whatever, you know, and this is not going to help. Or me stuffing folders before I go in the home with brochures— that's not a good use of my time. So I hired a girl from my church early on, and I bought, you know, a pack of like 1,000 red folders off of Amazon. And I had a 50-pound side bag that I brought with me into every home, and it had, um, you know, I would, I would grab a folder out at the beginning of every appointment. It's like, that's what I'd take my notes on. I'd have brochures that stuff in there and had the little business card, all the things. Because when I was all done, I'd write on the front, you know, John Wetmore Life Insurance, and I'd be like, hey, when your policy comes in the mail, put it in the red folder. I'd take a selfie, we'd text their beneficiary, we'd do all of these things that as soon as we switched to telesales, like, weren't really possible anymore. And it was like, I'm sure you experienced it, you went to a house and like, I already got insurance, and you're like, what insurance you got? I don't know. Who's your, who's your agent?

I don't know.

Where's your policy? I don't know. But they just left me behind this sticky note with the policy number on it. That's all I got. I'm like, okay. And then agents would come behind me all the time and they'd be like, well, he sold you an AmeriCo policy. Did you know I can get it for you $7 a month cheaper? And they'd be like, screw you, like, Jamie's worth $7. Yeah, because I was a professional. So, um, going the extra mile is honestly like the shortest and easiest explanation that I can say for agents who have good persistency is they just give a shit. And I, with that, without going into all of the nuances of all the things that we've done, it's like all of us agents know what we probably should do with our clients after a sale, but we're either too lazy or too busy to do it. We all have really bad habits and we probably won't do it. So, you know, that's where like later conversation, you know, we've built out some technologies and stuff to make it so that, you know, I don't have to think about it and some of that stuff just gets done in an automated way so I can kind of protect myself from myself because I'm just like I'm a lazy forgetful guy. My wife, you know, puts a punch list on the fridge of like things I need you to do today, and I'm like, I, I know it's right in front of me, but I forgot. Like, um, same thing happens with my clients. Like, I, I need something— that's why I had staff do it for me. But then staff— I was paying a girl $1,000 a week to call clients and let them know they're approved, to send thank you cards, to do all these things. And, you know, now I have, you know, for the most part, you know, systems and automation that do it. And I still have a virtual assistant who helps me with just a little bit of like the personal final touch.

Still, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have Reese clip that out for my dude Giovanni who watches this too, because I told him yesterday, I'm like, bro, you make enough money, you should have staff right now, bro, helping with all these things. Some, even some of his team, you know what I mean? It's like, not only do it for yourself, but I was doing shit like that for my team. That's what Amanda's first job was, to take care of, make sure business goes through and stays on the books for the, for the agents. Yeah, you know, um, it's an important piece and it keeps a ton of money in your pocket. That more than pays for the staff. So if Giovanni, you haven't done it yet by the time this comes out, here's your reminder, brother.

Yeah, I mean, probably the biggest piece I will say is the missed payment thing. So like, just in general, like, you wake up and you get a notification from XYZ carrier that says so-and-so, you know, whatever payment's gonna, you know, it's gonna lapse. Lapse notification, client cancellation, whatever.

Sure.

And what I find— they have— I hate the carriers do this, but it's like these encrypted emails that are like really freaking hard to click on to find out who canceled. They make it really hard to figure that out. But, um, if you do take— if you go the extra mile and you find out whose payment didn't go through, we've built in some automations for missed payment where, you know, I click a missed payment button and, you know, hey, you know, John Wetmore, you aware your policy's in a pre-lapse status? What's crazy is of the people that respond probably 50% of them were like, no, I wasn't aware. What do I got to do? So I'm thinking back to when I didn't have anything, how many chargebacks were preventable? Like, I've got a guy who's on my calendar today who his policy lapsed like 2 months ago and he's been blowing up my phone. And honestly, I thought that he wanted to cancel. Turns out his policy lapsed 2 months ago and he's like, I need it set back up. And I'm like, damn it, why wasn't I answering? Like, that's, that's, that's on me. Um, But, you know, probably 50% of the people who I see these missed payment notifications for actually still want the insurance. So by actually following up with the missed payment notifications, you know, I probably do, you know, 20 to 25, like, applications a month. I'm probably saving 4 payments a month. And it's like, okay, if my average premium is $3,300, let's just even say it was $1,000. I save 4 in a month, save 4 grand, that pays for a staff, a good staff, for a whole month. You know, just that one thing.

Yeah, I love it, I love it. Well, let's, um, let's do right before— and we're going to get into some because you've teased a little bit of the automation stuff, so we'll keep people watching for a few more minutes and we'll end with that. But roll into like the IUL side of things. How do you— anything you want there, dude. You're— you do this for a living, so anything you want to touch on IUL-wise that you want to share.

For sure. Yeah, so I sold about $300,000 in IUL this year, so pretty decent chunk of my business was— I would say I sold just under $400,000 this year, so vast majority of what I do is IUL. It is such a simple product. I think that I could ruffle some feathers here with this one, John Wetmore, but I think I've had this conversation with you before. One of my biggest pet peeves are, you know, I call them like the IUL zealots. It's like people who are like, if you don't sell them a fully underwritten increasing premium policy, increasing death benefits every single time, you are doing the client a disservice.

Yep, yep.

I don't think that's necessarily— I don't think that that's fair. Um, I think that there are most of the clients, at least that we work with, are middle Americans who have nothing in place whatsoever. Now, if I get 100 IUL leads, maybe one of them is going to be affluent, and I talk to this person and this person tells me exactly what they want, um, and like they're really interested in retirement, they've done some research, you know, all of this stuff. Yeah, like I'm going to set it up exactly the way that makes the best sense for the client. But when I talk to somebody, the vast majority of people that I talk to who request an IUL also don't have any life insurance. So what's important is to make sure they also have enough protection in place. So at the end of the day, you know, I want to make sure, like, if there's like a foundation of priorities here, like at the bottom ground level, it's like we need some dang life insurance. Like, we need to make sure that your family has a guarantee that money's coming to them if something happens. And then after that like we can talk about like your retirement and stuff. So like as much as, you know, people be like, well, they ask for an IUL, they want to do stuff for retirement. I'm like, okay, yes, let's do some sort of a, you know, a blended focus. Or maybe they get 2 IULs. Maybe let's look at their budget and see kind of how things shake out over a month, and I'll come back and sell them a second policy. But I'm not afraid to, number 1, sell simplified issue IULs. I know people will be like, well, the XYZ carrier— like, I don't care. At the end of the day, two things. Number one, I think that the carriers that we work with are great carriers. I don't think they've designed products to screw clients over. Like, none of the companies that we sell do that. And I think it's ridiculous the agents who go out there and like, XYZ company is a bad company just because they have their favorite IUL company that they like to write fully underwritten. Um, most agents who are not experienced, who get into IUL, who get bought into what some of these agents teach them about how you have to do it this way every time time, they go broke because they're waiting on underwriting. They don't have enough money to stay in business. So at the end of the day, of course, like, client first. Like, if you're messing with the clients, like, there is a special place in hell for you, probably. Like, if you really are trying to screw people over— that's never my intention. But at the end of the day, like, there's also— what's second priority? I need to stay in business.

Yep. Or you can't help more clients.

Or I can't help more clients. So for me, I have no problem selling an IUL, a max-funded IUL, you know, as opposed to like going and selling a $73 a month policy fully underwritten over here. That makes no sense. Like, my typical recommendation is look at, you know, people go, how much should I put in per month to an IUL? Well, about 10 times your age. So if you look at somebody and they're 30, 10 times their age is $300. It's pretty rare that you're going to be able to get a 30-year-old to even be able to spend $300 in a simplified issue IUL. Like, it's just, it's too much. So if somebody's wanting to spend more than 10 times their age, yeah, maybe it makes sense to go do one of these more advanced underwriting. You know, it's not always fully underwritten, accelerated underwriting, etc. You know, so I don't want to name companies, but, um, it makes sense. So if I get into a situation where someone wants to put in more than 10 times their age, then yeah, that makes sense. But if I have someone who's like, I can put in $50 a month Okay, well, let's be honest, at 53 years old, $50 a month isn't going to retire you anyways. So let's just do the math here. $50 a month, that's $600 a year. You do this for the next 20 years, even if they put 100% into the cash value, which they're not going to, it's not going to do much for you. What's actually going to do more for you is if you die or become sick or disabled, your wife gets $75,000. That's going to be worth more. So number one, not afraid to take somebody who is a smaller premium, write them a simplified issue and move on, because it's what keeps you in business. So like, for me, if I sell, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5 simplified issue a week and maybe 1 or 2 of a more advanced IUL a week, like, that's how you keep the lights on, you know. So you don't want to just get into this thing if I— every single time it has to be this way, because most people don't really fit into that bucket anyways, number 1. Number 2, a very simple explanation. So like, just like, you know, I remember watching videos of, you know, you and a couple other people back in the day explaining life insurance, and they're like, hey, it pays out if it dies, man. It pays out if you die, Mary. And I was like, that's like the simplest explanation I've ever heard. So like taking that same mentality of like, I think what like another trap people fall into is they get really— I've got a couple agents who they're like IUL experts and they're interested in it and they know about cap rates and they know about the indexes, and they get excited because somebody's willing to listen to them, like share their niched knowledge. And I'm like, you're losing the sale because you're doing this. By the way, to some of these people, they're trying to sound really smart. So like, I'll get on with the guy, I'll be like, hey John, you know, IUL, you know, it's a life insurance contract that you can save money inside of. And they'll be like, oh, okay. It's just, it's a life insurance contract that you can also save some money inside of. Like, there's two parts to it. You've got a death benefit, or you've got life insurance, and you've got cash value. Inside of the life insurance, you have a death benefit, living benefit. Death benefit. You've heard of this before. If you die, it pays out. Living benefit. This is benefits you can take advantage of while you're alive. If you have a heart attack, stroke, cancer, become critically ill, disabled, you get access to the death benefit. Does that make sense? Yep. All right, now we got cash value. A portion of the money you put in per month is going to go into a cash value savings account. Not 100% because we have to take out the cost of insurance, and whatever's left over goes into the cash value. So there's 3 very simple structures of an IUL. You have a protection focus, you have a cash accumulation focus, and you have a blended focus. Let's pretend we got $100. We have $100. A protection focus is, I'm going to take as much of this $100 as possible, and I'm going to get as much life insurance as I can possibly get. And whatever's left over, whatever pennies are left over, that's going to go to the cash value. That's more of like a traditional whole life structure. Where we're going to get as much life insurance as possible. So let's call it like 80/20— like $80 goes towards life insurance, $20 goes towards your cash value. Then you've got a cash accumulation focus. It's the exact opposite. What is the legal bare minimum amount of life insurance that I can get and put as much money towards the cash value as possible? So depending on your age, it might be 80% cash value, 20% life insurance. It could be 70% cash value or 60% if you're really old. It's like a 60/40. And it's like, hey, we're gonna get the legal bare minimum amount of life insurance and we're gonna put the most we can put into cash value. And then you've got a blended focus, which is like a 50/50, which most simplified issue IULs are blended focus. And when you explain it like that, then I go, based on those 3 things, which one do you think kind of makes the most sense for you? 80% of people I talk to go blended focus. I go, okay, my conscience is fine.

At that point.

Yeah, they say blended focus. Okay, good. And if they go, no, cash accumulation focus, the conversation takes a shift. Now I'm like, let's, let's dig into this, let's make sure that's actually what you need, let's— we're going to do what you want. Like, of course I'm always going to take care of the client, but I, I make sure to explain that. So, you know, I don't spend more than probably 3-4 minutes on that total explanation and just give them a basic concept. And I'm not typically super deep into illustration world either, because illustration world is really overwhelming The only people I do illustrations with are these people over here. Yeah, yeah, cash accumulation policies. Everyone over here wants life insurance, and it's just a bonus that it's not going to expire and it builds cash value.

Sure. If you're in the insurance space and trying to build an agency, or you're trying to like break records in sales, just hit new levels, new heights, click the link below to apply to consulting and coaching program that I have out there. I'm helping tons of people get to new levels, get to new income heights, help them build their teams, put systems in place, staffing stuff, recruiting processes, automations, and just teaching people how to get to a point where they're selling on their own pen 30, 40, 50 grand a month. And if they're building a team, teaching how to have an effective structure to your insurance agency for the most profitability you can. There is an application process. I'm I'm only looking to work with like high-end people who really want to make big things happen. If you're interested, click the link, apply, and if you're a fit, I'll reach out.

Does that make sense?

It does. Yeah, that's funny. As you were saying it, I was watching— I don't watch a ton of TV, but if I do, it's going to be like documentary type based stuff. Um, and I was watching this, this thing on Shaq and Allen Iverson. They're like taking over Reebok, or they're like the president and whatever. They're in charge. They've been with them forever, this, that, and the other. And they're, they're, they're relaunching like their basketball brand shoe, which I guess they haven't done for a long time.

Okay.

And, uh, they're—

they—

Shaq and AI go into this meeting with all the nerds that make the shoes.

Yeah.

And all they wanted to talk about was the technology in the shoes. And they were like, in this thing and this technology and that technology, and they were explaining it all like bezerko. And I don't remember if it was Shaq or AI, but one of them was like, dude, not to be mean, the technology ain't gonna sell the shoe. It's all great, but dude, all people care about is it comfortable and does it look dope?

Yeah.

It, we, we aren't gonna market these with all the bells and whistles and how the air gets in the pocket and all the things. He's like, again, that's all fine and dandy, but that's not gonna sell shoes. No. You know, and it's like, it's, it's basic business sense. That if you get in the weeds in anything, you're gonna make people's eyes spin. And again, it is appropriate at times for all the haters that, that, that are out there that watch. I, I don't like the broad everyone should do this thing either. It— that drives me insane. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, also, like, it's not good to be like, just jam everyone into simplified issue, right? Like, neither way, right? But every situation is niche. So anytime that I follow someone on Instagram who's one of these IUL influencers I get angry because I'm like, or on the opposite end, these like these Dave Ramsey influencers who hate IULs. I'm like, haters. Yeah, everyone's different. Like every single client, like never ever sell anybody a whole life policy. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, what do you— some of these people would never have insurance, you know, if they could.

The clicks, dude.

I think it's for clicks.

That's— I think that's it, bro. Gets in, it gets an audience, gets attention. I see them on TikTok, the IUL is a scam guys, and I'm Oh my Lord.

Yeah, at the end of the day, I found that almost everybody who is a hater online is recruiting to something, uh, 100%. So they're just like, hey, don't buy an IUL if it's not— make sure before you buy an IUL you watch this video, just because I want you to buy an IUL from me. Like, we've run those ads. Like, I get it. Like, but at the end of the day, most people have an agenda, and like, they want to sell you an infinite banking policy instead. They want a different a whole life with dividends. They want to sell you a term policy. They're, you know, an agent over at, you know, one of these MLM, you know, network marketing, you know, life insurance companies, and they say term only. Um, everyone's got an agenda, and at the end of the day, every client has different needs. And that's why it's great to be a broker, because you can give them what they want and take the path of least resistance.

Yeah, that's true. I love it. Let's get into the— let's get into the techie nerd side, bro, a little bit, for those that, those that like it. And I'll preface I'm going to preface and you'll probably do the same. But like, if you suck at your job and you aren't good at like details and like running your world, none of this shit's going to help you get rich. And please don't reach out to him if you don't mean like, and I'll let you preface your own way, but I love automations and me and you are geeks at heart with this stuff. But I think folks think that it's just magic. and it doesn't take work and other pieces. But dude, I'll tell you, I've been— this, this Lead Champ thing that y'all built out, and I'm, I'm the least likely to push a CRM. I mean, I'm like, use your cell phone and get a crayon and napkin kind of guy. But dude, this thing's been money, bro. I, I, I, I like it, and I've used several out there, um, and I'm a fan. And I don't get paid on this thing for anyone that's curious if I'm getting an affiliate, like I don't get shit out of this. This is my buddy runs a cool thing and it's helped me make a ton of money, dude. I like this shit, shit booking appointments when I'm sleeping and I wake up every morning and I look at the app and I'm like, oh, another 2, 3, 4 appointments. It doesn't, it doesn't set me 50, you know, so it's nothing magical, but it's, it's a nice little cherry on top. And I love the post-sale stuff that it, that it does too. So get in, get into like the evolution of it, dude. And whatever you want to share on that tech. I would love more.

I think what you said there, just in general, a nice little cherry on top. I think that is really important. Like whether it's this system, any system, any version of AI automation, it's a nice little cherry on top. And I know John's like the biggest proponent of like it doesn't replace the work. Like if you're, if you're a lazy agent, like I think what ends up happening is people see things like this and they go, oh my gosh, this is going to save me from having to work. I'll never have to dial again. I remember I had this video— this is so funny— we were first starting out promoting Lead Champ, and it was going really well until it wasn't. I had this video, it was like, I haven't dialed in 6 months. Then guess what happened? And then the leads went off a cliff. And I guess what, if I didn't start dialing, I was gonna go broke. So it's like, how ignorant of me. Like, it was a cool video, I got a lot of clicks, and I technically at the time it was true, but it was like If I would have kept that mentality of like, oh my gosh, I haven't dialed in 6 months because AI has been doing such a good job, you know, setting me, you know, 30, 40 appointments a week at the time, that if my ego would have gotten in the way, I would have gone broke after the leads fell off a cliff and everything went to special ad categories. So for me, I've noticed that everything is just that cherry on top. You know, you said, you know, sets you 2, 3, 4 appointments, 100%. Like, it's not filling my entire schedule, you know, to fill my entire schedule. It takes me, an appointment setter, and AI. You know, I have, you know, this week, you know, the last 3 days I've had 20 appointments a day. That doesn't happen by accident. That's lead flow, and that's also a little bit of extra effort. So if I would just rely on AI and an appointment setter, I might have 6, 7 appointments a day.

Yeah, but I think we should— I think you should send me your, your picture, your calendar, and I'll put it in right here. Because I've seen it.

Yeah, that's pretty—

just for people that are like, how many does he run? Like, I literally want you to send me a screenshot. I'll have Reese paste it in there.

Yeah. And the reason why I book my schedule so heavy is because, you know, I have a 50% no-show rate, you know, if not more. You know, sometimes it's 70% no-show rate, you know. But at the end of the day, if I can sit on 6, 7 presentations in a day, I'll sell 2 or 3. And then there's those days where you sell like 7, and you're like, holy crap, this was an amazing day. And those days come. So at the end of the day, for me, it's important to pack my schedule. I'm big on like compartmentalizing everything. So if my schedule does pop up here, you're going to see like when I pee and shower. So don't make fun of me, but, um, everything's in there. So it is literally on there for sure. Um, so all right, long and short of it is we switched from, uh, in-home to telesales. My persistency fell off of a cliff. I switched from mortgage protection to IUL. That was a big deal. So like I made a bunch of really big changes all at once. Like anybody out there, like make little changes Like, if you're like, I want to try a new lead vendor, just try supplementing with that lead vendor instead of just like cutting the cord. Because every time you just cut the cord with things, there's a learning period and a transition period. So for me, I cut the cord on in-home and I cut the cord on mortgage protection at the same time. I was like, I'm selling IUL, something I've never sold before, over the phone. I'm like, this is really hard. So of course, you know, my persistency, you know, wasn't great. So I've got a business partner, Josh Lockhart. You know, both of us sold a few million dollars in life insurance in the home and over the phone. And, um, honestly, we just wanted a place to keep our leads at first. I was looking for something to recreate some of the persistency stuff. I used to leave that red folder behind for, you know, clients, and that was cool, you know. Now I'm sending a templated email, but it's taken me 30 minutes after every appointment to put this all together. And, you know, I basically send one email and one text message, and I never reach out to to the client again. So we went down this journey of let's build something out that every time that you make a sale, you know, we had a goal of what if we could touch that client close to 100 times in the first year? And that just kind of sounded like a wild goal. And we were like, text message, email, postcard. Like, what if after the sale we're like, hey, you know, it was great to meet you, here's everything that we submitted for, here's the brochure of the company, here's their AMBEST score, here's you got to log in at that carrier to check your own stuff. And then 2 weeks later, we're like, hey, did your policy come in the mail? All stuff that I would have my staff do. But the problem was, like, my staff are human, I'm human, you get busy. I used to have my staff call every day at 8 AM to be like, hey, you're approved, because I wanted to catch the client with the approval message before they looked at their bank account to see the money had come out. So now we have our system that at 8 AM you know, on those days, sends out your approval messages for you automatically.

So I got one this morning that was like, thanks, John, I'll, I'll have— I'll put the money in there today, and their payments tomorrow.

Like, exactly. So we, we spent an immense amount of time on what happens after the sale. So as soon as the sale is made, they're getting all their product details, product brochures, login information, etc. And then over the course of the next year, you know, at least the first month, we're making sure everything came in the mail. We're giving them an opportunity to schedule a review. And we're asking for referrals, children's whole life, we're reaching out for birthdays, you know, holidays. Accidental—

I've seen those go out.

Yep, we've done some accidental upsells. Um, so basically at the end of the day, the goal is to increase persistency by letting your clients know that after you make a sale, it's not the last time they're ever going to hear from you. I've got a long street— clients like, I didn't hear from you. I'm like, actually, I go click on their contact. I've got a long string of about 50 messages I've sent you over the last 18 months, you've heard from me, you know, don't say that. So, um, that was a big part for me, was persistency. There's so many bells and whistles on the persistency side— getting referrals, emergency response network beneficiaries, and all kinds of stuff to keep people on the books. And then Josh, on the other hand, he had super high, uh, lead flow, just a high volume, like lots of names and numbers coming in every day, and Um, with traditional automation, you know, I send out, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 messages, person responds, automation stops, and now it's up to you to take over the conversation. Well, now, you know, we're busy, we've got agency stuff going on, and it's like I look down and our inbox has 50 unread messages, and they're like, call me in the afternoon, yes, I'm interested, when can we book an appointment? And I'm like, oh, these are people that had I responded when they were in front of their phone, I probably would have booked the appointment. It's like they responded at 10 PM last night, I was sleeping, and now I'm responding at 8 AM. They're probably at work, they're not looking at their phone. So that's when Josh went down the rabbit hole of AI. And there's lots of people out there that build out some AI bots. Ours is pretty comprehensive with some of the things that we're building into it even today and continuing to improve it. But, you know, Josh basically was having this thing where, you know, he'll joke around if he ever gets on this podcast Alex will probably retell the story of his wife was always elbowing him in church because it's Sunday and everyone's responding and he's like afternoons he's trying to set up his Monday and he's texting these people in church on the Lead Connector app and she's like, what are you doing?

Like, listen.

So now it's like he walks out of church on a Sunday, he's like, I had 6 appointments get booked by AI because the moment that that person said yes, interested, AI swoops in conversationally, books them, checks the calendar for white space, puts them on the calendar, sends out the automation, does all the things. So on the most basic level, we're trying to set more appointments, we're trying to increase persistency, we're trying to get more referrals. There's about 1,000 bells and whistles that this thing can do, from a missed payment to, you know, you know, some of the, you know, credibility side of things. Um, but at the end of the day, we're trying to book more appointments, increase persistency, and, uh, and get more referrals. And we've got, you know, about 300 agents who are currently using. And, you know, right now, of the people who have reported persistency to us, we're seeing an average of about a 15 to 20% increase in persistency over 18 months.

Cool. That's cool. Yeah, it's neat. It's clean, dude. I'm a fan. And I've used other ones and I just— yeah, I hate them, or I want to— I want to edit them so bad. And I've made a few small tweaks to y'all, but like this much, dude, just anal stuff. Send stuff to Amanda for me and some shit we track.

But for the most part, dude, out there, John, is like, you know, we use GoHighLevel. We're not afraid to tell people that GoHighLevel an amazing technology. Isn't it just to go HighLevel? Yeah. But also, like, if I go to a random website, is this just a WordPress site? Did somebody build it on GoDaddy, you know, with the free website builder, or did they pay a developer, you know, $10,000 to build their website? You can do anything on WordPress with code. So we are probably close to about $250,000 in development into this thing at this point, which is crazy to even say. And people are like, how is that even possible with GoHighLevel? It's very possible. With some of the things that we've built out. Um, but I think the biggest thing I want to throw out there without trying to like razzle and dazzle people with technology and saying that we're cool and spend a bunch of money is I sell insurance today. I issued $60,000 last month in IUL. Yeah, like I still sell insurance today. Josh still sells insurance today. And every single tool that is built into this system were battle-tested before we updated and sent out to everyone else, used on our own stuff to make sure that it worked. And at the end of the day, I look at so many CRMs, lead companies, etc., and they're marketers. And I'm going to talk shit about marketing.

They don't sell shit. They don't sell shit.

The reason that I can talk shit about marketers is because I owned a marketing company before I got into insurance, and I know what they're thinking. They go, oh, XYZ IMO has 2,000 agents, 10,000 agents, 20,000 agents, money signs. If I could sell 200 agents a $200 widget I don't have to work anymore. And I'll sell them this, you know, this GoHighLevel that has a logo stamped in the corner. It's an empty house and say, go build whatever you want. And people do that all the time. And at the end of the day, I would just say that again, like, from a, like, why, why should you care? Why, why would you trust us? I sell insurance, so I don't need anything necessarily from anybody. Like, Josh and I don't pay ourselves from this. This was an accidental company. Um, you know, even if, even if this company continues to become wildly successful, like, we're not planning on paying ourselves. We've got 12 staff people that run Lead Champ that we are paying. Um, and Josh and I want to sell insurance and build an agency. And honestly, building Lead Champ has actually lost us money because the opportunity cost of building that— what I could have sold, could have sold twice as much, you know, had I not been focused on this. So at the end of the day, like, you know, we built this for our own agents and for ourselves. And then the secret kind of got out and people wanted to hear it and see it and use it. And yeah, people, people like it. We've done really no advertising and, you know, we're 100% referral and word of mouth. And, uh, we've got some pretty good, you know, new agent deals going on right now. So if somebody does want to come on and try it, you know, we've never done any type of a free trial before, but we've done some pretty huge discounted first months. Um, and, you know, try it. If you like it, you know, you're not gonna hurt our feelings. Um, but, uh You know, people seem to like it.

What up, y'all? So YouTube memberships, we have one now right next to the subscribe button. There's a neon white join button. You can't miss it. Subscribe, whatever it says, click the link, get in there. I do a ton of coaching, teaching people how to dial, corrections, working on their presentations, working on their mindset. I will coach on theory, but I like coaching real-world stuff. And if you join the membership section, you're going to see live coaching where I am not only helping people, but every once in a while I get in there and dial myself. There's some cool videos coming out, tons of content. All of the training videos will be directly on my YouTube channel that's available to members only. Super easy to find. So join now if you're interested. Click below. See you in there. Yeah, I'd say it's— and this is my opinion, I don't know if you all promote this, so if you don't and you think otherwise, certainly correct me. But I'd argue it's probably built for like a high, high production agent more so for sure.

I would say it's a no-brainer for a high production agent. But the problem— two things. One is The number one reason people cancel our stuff, and they cancel anything, whether it's $500 a month, $300 a month, or $80 a month, if they're not selling any insurance, they're going to cancel the tool. So the number one reason people cancel is because they're struggling as a life insurance agent. That's the number one reason. The number two reason a high producer cancels is they are so ingrained in their habits. So like, I got guys who are like, they can't get off their spreadsheet, they can't get off their piles of paper on their desk. They won't change their habits.

Yeah.

And I go, hey, if you're gonna spend what you're gonna spend on this, you need to use it. You need to disposition the leads and do the things. And some of these people can't get out of their own way and actually just force themselves to click the buttons. That's the other reason people cancel, is they just, they can't bring themselves to use it.

And I was a paper guy, dude. Hell, you watch some of my— so those of y'all been watching my YouTube, this journey of selling, bro, I was still printing every lead, literally physical paper. Um, I had stacks. It was hard for me to switch just because of what you just said. But one day I was like, dude, if these young kids can figure out how to do this with no paper, certainly I can figure this out. And I just dove into it, dude. It's been a cool little journey. You know, it's been neat to use it for sure.

So yeah, I was 100%. I was 100% paper. Then I switched to spreadsheets and spreadsheet, you know, it's color-coded red, green, yellow, you know. Red means I can't, you know, they didn't want to buy, green means I sold them, and yellow means they're somewhere in between. And if they're not a color, keep calling. And I did all those things and then, you know, transitioned into this. And, you know, it's just one place that I keep everything and, you know, makes everything simple. Um, I found ways to replace the paper though, John. My desk has now paper to-do lists everywhere. I don't have paper leads, I've got all these paper to-do lists everywhere.

I love it, dude. I love it. Well, I appreciate it, brother. If they— where do you want them to go? I will put a link. Um, yeah, you said it.

Yeah, I did not say— you can go to leadchamppro.com, you can request a demo. Um, we're happy to walk you through the platform, you know, you can see a little bit more inside, under the hood, and see if, uh, see if we can help.

Yeah, I love it, dude. Well, I appreciate it. Anything you want to add to anyone watching before I let you go? You're on your stage.

Um, I love insurance. Most days. It is the best and the worst business I've ever been a part of. When I first got started in the business, my first mentor said, you know, welcome to the best business ever. You know, this is the most honorable profession on the planet, and I do truly believe that. You know, we help people with something that they need. I've sold all kinds of widgets, and I've sold all kinds of luxury-type things that people don't need, and I have to convince people that it's going to make their life better. Um, with life insurance, especially working leads, these people have already raised their hand saying, I need life insurance, I want life insurance. Everyone needs it. So it's like, at the end of the day, like, I'm not really having to convince anybody of anything. And we know that even, even if it— like, I— the one thing I'll say is that even if I had to convince Mary a little bit and I had to kind of push her over the line I don't feel bad because I know that if something happens to her, it was a good decision. I never want to put someone in a bad position, but if I have to, um, give a little tough love to somebody, I don't feel bad because I know that their family needs what we're offering. So I think everyone can just take comfort in the fact that, like, we're in a good industry. I think there's a lot of bad actors out there that give, um, a bad name to life insurance agents. One of my last pet peeves is I cannot stand the jokers on social media who make fun of life insurance agents who are lead vendors, and they are companies that are promoting life insurance, and they're like, let's make fun of all the life insurance bros who sell grandma a policy that's going to charge— like, I hate that because it makes us seem like we're not good people. And I think probably 95% of life insurance agents are good people with good intentions who have bad habits and sometimes make mistakes and learn from them. And there's a very small percentage of people who get into our industry and they take advantage of the advanced commissions and they give a bad name to people.

Sure.

And it just grinds my gears when I see people out there, you know, talking crap about one of the best professions on the planet. So I think like if you're on here, you want to be better and you want to be a good agent, and you know, that's not you. And I think we can just continue to move forward, continue to treat people right, you know, and you know, protect families and, you know, try to make life insurance not seem like, you know, just some scammy, scummy sales job, because it's not. Like, we, we get to serve people, and I think I want everyone to leave knowing that.

Yeah, I love it, dude. My favorite button on social media is the unfollow button. Yeah, because then I don't see those assholes, because I— it makes me mental too. So I appreciate it, brother. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for everything you're doing. And if I can help with you and your crew anytime, bro, you let me Of course, John, my man. Appreciate it. We'll see y'all on the next one. Later, guys. If you've enjoyed the podcast or any of the previous episodes, if you're on Spotify or any of the other Apple Podcast platforms, would love if you'd go in and leave a review for us. If you're, if you're watching on YouTube, comment, like, subscribe, share, do all the things. We'd greatly appreciate it. Helps get the word out to everybody. Appreciate you, and we'll see you on the next one.