This Phone Script Made Me $506,000 My First Year in Insurance Sales ft. Tom Foshio | Ep60

It's a funny game, man. I always explain to people, like, because they have this, this fear, this risk factor that they have in their head, and they only want to risk a little bit, so they only put in a little bit. And I'm like, if you understood the math, a little bit is actually a much bigger risk than the putting in more money. It's way more risky because the percentage you have to sell to break even is much higher when you have less leads. All right, y'all, appreciate you getting on. Uh, John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insiders podcast. Have, uh, someone was referred over to me. Tom is Fo Show, if I pronounce it right, which he says is a lot longer. He gave us the short version, and, uh, dude's killing it. How, how young are you, dude? You look pretty— you look like my kid's age.

I'm 25.

25. Half million bucks your first year?

Yes, sir, my man.

What's your background? Where'd you come from?

Uh, so I originally started, uh at AT&T. And then after working there for 4 years, I actually got like a 4-year anniversary email and I was like, man, I've been here for 4 years. I've got to get out of here. So I immediately started looking for jobs that pay 6 figures, no college degree. Of course, the only thing I saw was like sales jobs, which was like solar, pest control, and insurance. And at the time, I'm actually from Alaska, so solar didn't make much sense to me. So I was like, that's ruled out. Pest control. I was like, I don't like bugs, I don't want to talk about bugs, nothing. So I just went straight into insurance. And, um, I actually went into property and casualty to begin with, and that sort of got me like acclimated with sales. And I worked there for a couple months before, um, getting hit by Cody Askins' ad. Uh, he was talking to somebody else making six figures with life insurance. So I was like, okay, let me try to sell something higher ticket. Googled how to become a life insurance agent. Here I am.

Who'd you find?

Uh, Eric Schmidt. He was running—

no way! Oh hell yeah, Schmidt's my guy. Yeah, I love it, I love it. I'm not surprised, he probably called you back in 5 seconds too.

Oh yeah, he's a machine.

Oh yeah, dude, Schmidt don't play, bro. I used to send him recruiting leads or recruiting appointments, so it'd be like, hey, here's an appointment at 2, here's one at 6, here's one at 4. Like, we'd set up the appointment in advance Every time I sent it to Schmidt, he's like, appointment, I call him now. He just ignored the appointment. He would call him right when we sent them to him. He's my favorite dude. He's, he's a boss. Um, that's good. That's cool. You still in Alaska now?

No, I live in, uh, Texas now. So you do?

Shocker. Yeah, a lot of, a lot of people going to Texas. Austin, where are you at?

I'm in Dallas.

Dallas, cool.

Love it, love it.

We had a, we had a big squad in Austin. A lot of people going there.

Oh, okay. That's where my— some of my friends went, like Freddie and, uh, and Mel.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wonder— that's why— that's who I was thinking of when you— I was like, yeah, there's a gang other two, Zach and Cal, a bunch of those guys are down there. Yeah, if you know them. That's funny. That's cool. I love it, dude. Um, so you said no college, right? Did I hear you say that?

Uh, I went for like almost a year and then I realized like this wasn't for me. So yeah, yeah, interesting, interesting.

I love it. So when you, when you got— did you struggle at the beginning or what? Like, actually, let me ask you this. At the AT&T thing, was that sales side too, or were you doing service there?

Uh, so it's— well, I'm basically like a, a retail consultant. So like when you walk in the store, I'm the guy that's like, hey, you know, what do you come to the store for? Some people consider it sales, but it's really just like 'Oh, you got a phone? Would you like a case?' Or I wouldn't really call those like that. So yeah, you—

I assume not big commissions in that, really? No, no, unless you're the guy running the region. Yeah, I've heard those guys make some money.

Oh yeah, definitely making multiple six figures. But, um, I actually took a pay cut going to, uh, to property and casualty because I wasn't hitting like sales goals because I wasn't used to sales. But it got me used to like making cold calls and like you know, just calling random people up trying to sell them something. So, yeah.

What was that like calling just randos?

Uh, I mean, I, I consider myself, um, like more so of an introvert. I'm not the most charismatic person. So it was a big, big change for me. I kind of like questioned myself. I was like, why did I do this? You know what I mean? Like the Indeed ad said 6 figures, no cost to you. That's why I did it. But, um, you of course had to have to hit the sales goals in order to to be making the 6 figures. So yeah, definitely a lot of rejection. I was working a lot older leads, all local, of course. So these leads would be like 1, 2 years old. So when I was getting started with FFL, like when I was dialing 6 to 12 month olds, I was like, okay, this isn't that bad. Like I've done worse.

Yeah.

But yeah, really just got me used to hearing the word no and just calling people I don't know and just Talking to him, human.

What, what attracted you to want to work with, I say, Schmidt? Not because of just in general, like, what did he say that got you like, oh, this is— I want to do this instead of the P&C side? Like, what was the hook for you?

Yeah, um, so one of the main things was just like how high ticket like life insurance is. So, um, 75% advance, you know, commission starting at, you know, 70, 80%, and then it could easily depending on your sales, you go all the way up to 120%, you're building an agency 145%.

Sure.

And also just being able to have control over your own time because I was a captivator for Allstate at the time. So I had to report into the office specific time, basically regular 9 to 5. And at that time I was also having some conflict with my boss because I wasn't hitting sales goals. So I was like, man, if I could not have somebody breathing down my back, then that would be awesome. Um, and also he just like, you know, he introduced me to some other guys in the group that were fairly new and that were also killing it. Um, like Matty, I know he was just on here too. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, man, if, if he could do it, then, then I could do it too. Cause like when you're in the Zoom, like listening to these people, and I think he does that with all his recruits, like he'll have them like come and listen in on the Zoom.

Yeah.

But I'm like, I'm like, man, they're not, they're not doing anything that's like, you know, super, super extraordinary. It just sounds like. Normal people having normal conversations. So I was like, if they could do it, then I could do it too, you know.

So were you in there yesterday when I popped in or no?

Uh, I believe so. I believe so.

I don't know if you knew. I don't— because I didn't know a bunch of people. I knew a handful of people in there, of course.

I saw, I saw your last name in there. Yeah, yeah.

So my son Braden is 17 and he's been working with me at the office. We just having him doing like, you know, clean a toilet or get us tissue, just not really that bad, but we just having them I just have him here just trying to figure out how to like go from, you know, a kid that just gets to go to school and come home and no big deal, to like, oh, he's— I'm almost an adult, let me learn how to start doing some stuff.

Yeah.

So I just have him around the office, man, learning. And, uh, the more he learns, the more he's like, can I— because he always like, how much do I make? I'm like, well, you're not really doing anything, bro, but cleaning up a junk room. Like, I'll, I'll probably overpay you, but it's still gonna be no money relative. Yeah, it makes 20 bucks an hour or 15, whatever we pay him. 15, but I don't even know what I pay him, to be honest. That's that. And, uh, but it's hourly, right? And now we had some stuff to sell. I had a bunch of equipment, old camera equipment that I just trying to figure out this podcast. I'm like, hey, sell it, I'll split it with you. And he's like, I like that better. Now he's making money selling equipment and he'll get to keep some of it.

Yeah.

And he'll see like every once in a while I'll write a policy, or he has me train on it non-stop. And so we hear— he'll hear a lot of y'all talk, and he's like, maybe I should do that. And I'm like, dude, I can get you making phone calls now, so when you're 18— he turns 18 in November— you can be ready to go. And he was like, I'll try it. And we did a run, we did a like an obstacle mud run with Freddie and all those guys, and so he got to meet him. Yeah, yep, we did the side. So he got to meet him, and he keeps asking. So yesterday I I, I hit, uh, Madison up this week and I'm like, yo, would you be open to helping Brayden like with some dial stuff and put him in your room? He's like, hell yeah. So we threw Brayden in yesterday, so he's gonna start dialing today. Obviously he can't sell, but he can start getting on the phones and booking appointments.

Yeah, he's gonna get the call reluctance and everything out the way. That's like, yeah, it holds people back. So just having that, not having that off the gate is like, he's gonna be killing them.

Yeah, so I'm gonna put him in with y'all. I'm like, I see all these young kids killing it, he ain't gonna listen to Dad near as much, so go in there. So I'm excited for him to learn from you too, bro. That'll be exciting.

He's gonna crush it, man. I'm excited.

What, um, so when you were the captive deal, what was like your day-to-day like there? Like requirements? Did you have a certain number of phone calls you had to make or contacts you had to make, or what was that activity-wise? What was that like?

Yeah, um So the day to day, so we would just hop on in the morning and there's like a 30-minute to an hour call, you know, listening to, uh, the main person we'd listen to was Grant Cardone. We were in like his, uh, it's like a Lightspeed University, something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're just taking all his courses, like listening, like having pages of notes on all his stuff. Um, and then we would just like start dialing, honestly. So just had an automated system that kind of just like would be dialing year, uh, leads from 1 to 3 or even more years old, like these old leads we were dialing. Um, and just getting a lot of nos. So, uh, we didn't really have like a— well, it was a talk time goal. I think it was 3 hours of talk time.

Okay, it's good of speaking to people.

Speaking to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So as you know, most agents don't spend 3 hours trying to speak to people. Yeah, 3-hour talk time is a big number.

Yeah, yeah, that was the ideal for the day. Um, yep. And then Ideally, we close a policy or two in a day. Some policies, like not all policies are the same. So auto, home is going to be the meat and potatoes. Everything else, like motorcycles, you close one of those, it's kind of like, eh.

It's like a child policy.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, regular 1-hour lunch break and then just do the same thing. And you're also helping the traffic that comes into the store. So occasionally you might get a policy or two after from that. But, um, also a lot of service work involved too, because you're actually, yeah, like helping with the claims, getting it to the adjusters, connecting people.

Got it, got it. Yeah, so the bigger your book gets, the more you got to be a customer service rep or hire someone, staff, admin, whatever. Interesting. Would you get paid on something like that on average? Say the standard meat and potato type policy, you sell one, what goes in your pocket on average?

So it was it sort of works like if we hit a certain amount of— I forgot what the exact term was, but I guess it's like items.

Yeah. And they have tiers, probably.

Yeah. We'd have to like 20 items at least and then we could get our commission. So if you did anything below 20, you wouldn't get any.

You didn't get paid. And if you didn't have like 20 vehicles, homes, whatever, insured, so 20 items had to be covered.

Yeah, for you to—

got it. So I, uh, or you're just living on your base?

Yeah, we had hourly too. We had hourly too.

It was like, it was $500 a week or something.

Oh, I want to say it was like $13, $14 an hour, something like that. Oh, it was pretty low. It wasn't really—

yeah, so $400 or $500 a week you're making.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, of my like 5, 6 months there I only hit commission like twice. Dang. It was bad. Um, but the commission on those times I did hit it, it would be like one was $2,000, another one was like $2,500. So it still wasn't like, you know, crazy money or anything, but, um, I guess that did two things for me. So one, like, you know, just from being in that environment for a little bit, um, got out of my shell. Like sales was like completely off the table for me before, but yeah, in that 4-year anniversary, choose your free AT&T swag. I was like, man. I've been here for 4 years, so I was, I was ready to do anything. Um, yeah, also coming from like making like $1,800 a month, um, jumping into an opportunity like FFL, like when they break it down to like, yeah, that's just a couple policies, I'm like, wow, like this is a no-brainer for me. Like, sign me up.

I love it. I love it. So take us through the beginning, man. You get started, you get your license. I assume he gives you a little bit of training and some leads and it's like, get on the phone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what was that like?

Uh, so got licensed, um, immediately, you know, started going through like rabbit hole of, uh, before you only had the PNC license before. Yeah.

So you had to get licensed with— got it. Makes sense. Yep.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, after I got licensed, uh, the main thing I started with was, uh, uh, Stephen Ye, his, he had like a university, like teaching.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I watched like all the videos on there, took like a ton of notes and then I think it's natural for every, like, every person coming into the business to fall into the rabbit hole of, like, YouTube videos. FFL. I watched, like, every FFL Hall of Famer's, like, YouTube videos. A lot of Giordano. Saw some, like, Zach Moreno stuff that interested me in telesales because in Alaska I was like, there's no way I'm door knocking out here because it's, you know, it's negative. It's negative outside. And I crashed my car when I started, so I didn't really have a car either.

Were you in Alaska when you started?

Yeah.

Got it. Makes sense.

Yeah. And I was actually like, so what I would do, I went to ageleadstore.com and I bought a pack of 1,000 leads. The only state I had at the time was South Carolina. So I would wake up at 5:00 AM and dial those leads up until I had to go, had to leave for work. So like 8:30, go to work and then come back and try dial other leads when I got back. So I think I had Alaska and I had South Carolina. That's what I started with. So had it. Yeah. But I was doing that for a while. I closed my first couple policies beginning of the year. And after closing those first couple policies, I was like, man, I've made more than I would make in a whole day in just a couple minutes, like an hour call. So I quit my job towards the beginning of the year there and went all in on life insurance and then used the money from those first few policies to invest in newer leads. Because at this time I was tapping into the Zoom a lot and all these guys are like, yeah, I'm working vet leads. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. And there was this one day I asked Freddie, I was like, hey, how much do you spend on leads a day or a week? And he does some math on his phone. He's like, uh, $2,100. I'm like, $2,100? Holy cow. But just seeing, like, I asked everybody and all of them were doing it. So I was like, man, I mean, if I want to have the results, I got to do what they do. So, you know, I put— I already had everything on credit cards, got my Chase card, $10,000 limit, started running the $300 spend on there. And, you know, so $300 a day for those that missed that, $300 a day, $300 a day. And slowly but surely, you know, the amount goes up. Post-dated policy pays, and then, you know, pay it off, and then you become profitable. And it's been, it's been like that since then. So yeah, that's crazy.

Was that '23 or '24? What year was that? Oh, you said January, so just last year. Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Nice, nice, nice. So interesting. So you figured that game out pretty quick.

Yeah, yeah.

The, the, the put it out up front, be nervous. Oh shit, I'm putting all this money out. but it takes a minute to come back. But if you reinvest it the right way, that wheel runs really smooth.

Yeah. Just seeing how much each policy pays, I'm like, it didn't have to be a complete emotional decision for me because it logically made sense. It's like, okay, if I'm paying $300 for leads in a day, if I close at least one policy, I'm at least breaking even. So the goal is—

oh God, one baby policy.

Yeah, yeah, like one sale a day. Okay, you know, so good point.

Yeah, to cover $300 a day, it's a lot easier to do on however many leads that get you. A ton of leads, I assume, to be able to work.

Get me around like 20 leads a day. Yeah, so, and these are fresh, fresh leads.

Yeah, like fresh 20 live leads all the time. So basically means you got someone to call all day long for the most part. Yeah, it's not much of a dial and grind dial, but I assume you build up inventory if you're doing it like those guys. As you build inventory, you keep tapping back into them.

Yeah, then it's like I'm not— I don't feel like I'm over-dialing leads. I feel like, you know, perfect amount of leads. Um, it decreases like, like sales pressure, commission breath, just because I'm like, okay, if you don't want to buy, I got a lot of other leads to call, a lot of people I call in the day, you know what I mean? Whereas before it's like Man, I gotta, I gotta make my money back.

Hell yeah.

I was really like, are you, are you sure you don't want the insurance?

Yeah, yeah, it's fun. It's a funny game, man. I always explain to people, like, because they have this, this fear, this risk factor that they have in their head, and they only want to risk a little bit, so they only put in a little bit. And I'm like, if you understood the math, the little bit is actually a much bigger risk than the putting in more money. It's way more risky because the, the amount of the percentage you have to sell to break even is much higher when you have less leads. You know, um, that's crazy. So did— would— that was January. Did you kill it the first month once you figured that out?

Uh, well, depends on it, but, uh, compared to like lead spend, I like— I kind of broke even. So I issued $18,000, um, in there.

Yeah.

Of course, but yeah, it was pretty good.

When did it get, when did it get good? When did you go like, oh shit, this is working?

Uh, I'd say around like, I'd say around March. So first month I did $18,000. Second month I actually moved from, uh, from Alaska to Oregon, um, because I just recently got here in Dallas. I was in Oregon like last, this, this March. Um, so during that whole move, Wi-Fi issues, getting everything settled. So I only did $20,000, but I was like, wait, I worked less than I did last month. I issued a little bit more. Something's, you know, I'm getting a little better. Um, and then, you know, March I was fully settled. So I'm like, all right, I'm just going to lock in and, you know, um, do what I need to. So March I issued $32,000 and then April. You know, the deposits started getting a little bit crazy. I issued 52 in April, and I was like, okay, I got this. This is my—

this is a game. What do you, what do you put in the bank if you issue 52? Ballpark. I know chargebacks, persistency, there's a lot of factors. I get all that, but ballpark for those that just don't get the numbers, what does that put in the bank?

Yeah, if you're issuing 52, um, you'll probably put around 30 minus lease spend.

Okay, so spending $30, you're doing the $300 a day, so $2,000 a week. 2, 4, 6, 8. So you're netting $20, geez, easy $20, low $20s, low to mid $20s. Yeah, without any back-end money yet, really not, especially not at that stage. Yeah, no renewal money yet, none of that stuff, no overrides, no nothing.

Yeah, and also my, uh, in April I was at I think I was like 90% comp, whereas I'm at 120 now.

So it's, it's a lot different as far as like, it covers your whole lead spend now.

Yeah, yeah, it's a big, big difference.

And obviously you get that from doing a lot of personal production. You can, you can work your way up.

Yeah, that's sick.

What's your best month?

Uh, my best month, about 70. That was, uh, July. Okay, no, actually, no, that was Is it October or November? It was around Ignite time.

Okay. Yep. So already speaking at events. Yeah.

Yeah. That was my first time.

How'd that feel? How was that?

Nerve wracking, nerve wracking. But I feel like, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's always the anticipation that kills you, but when you're actually on stage and like the words are flowing out of your mouth, it's, uh, you kind of zone out and, you know, it just, it just happened.

100%. It's the lead up that gets all of us, bro. Yeah. It goes away. It does.

It does.

It does go, or at least goes down a lot. It goes down a lot. Um, I remember the first time I had to speak, dude, mine wasn't even on a stage. It was at the front of a room, like, I think one of these— have you been to anybody's office yet? Uh, have you been to any, like, walk-ins or anything like that yet?

Yeah, yeah, I was in, uh, I was at Dave's walk-in last May. And oh, you were? Oh, and I was, uh, was I at that Jay Mask's office?

Um, I go to Dave's a couple times a year. I don't know if I was at the one in May. Um, but anyway, you know, they tend to get— when they're doing the training, they have, you know, 20 people in a room and someone stands up front. Well, they asked me to come to the front of the room of 20 people and talk, and I was like, uh-uh, I ain't saying shit up there, bro. And the guy's like, he goes, you're killing it. I'm like, and he's like— I go, all right, how about this? I'll come up there if you ask me questions. And then I'll answer them. So the first time, this was in 2015, and I sold half, almost half a million, a little under half a million that year. And in the summer, same thing. Everyone was like, holy shit, look what he did, uh, and they wanted to hear me talk. And I was like, uh-uh, I ain't your guy. So I, for a very first time speaking, I made this dude stay up there with me and I'd only do it if he asked me questions, which now you see people that do like, uh, panels, right? To help with that. Like we see that coming. It's like, hey, put you on a panel. It's much less intimidating for some people. And now I can't shut up. I speak on stages in front of rooms all the time. So it's kind of funny. It gets better. I love it, dude. If you're in the insurance space and trying to build an agency, or you're trying to like break records in sales, just hit new levels, new heights, click the link below to apply to my consulting and coaching program that I have out there. I'm helping tons of people get to new levels, get to new income heights, help them build their teams, put systems in place, staffing stuff, recruiting processes, automations, um, just teaching people how to get to a point where they're selling on their own pen 30, 40, 50 grand a month. And if they're building a team, teaching how to have an effective structure to your insurance agency for the most profitability you can. There is an application process. I'm only looking to work with like high-end people who really wanna make big things happen. Couple recent clients that we've had in the, in the coaching program. One dude as an individual went from selling like $8,000 a month, barely getting by, about to quit the industry, found the book, hit me up direct, started the coaching program, went to $35,000 his first month, has issued like $150,000 in the last 90 days, and has changed the trajectory of his career. Working with another agency builder, very first month went from doing like $800,000 a month to almost $1.1 million. We added like 10 or 15% production in in 30 days and continue to work on things there. So if you're interested, click the link, apply, and if you're a fit, I'll reach out. Cool. So give them, give them some tips. Let's give them some sales stuff, man. Um, whatever you want, I'll let you pick. Obviously you do this, you've taught it, you see agents coming in and out, you see people on the Zooms that quit, you see people on the Zooms that mess it up, don't learn the sales stuff. You know what I mean? Like all the pieces that they do incorrectly. Um, just share whatever you think. If someone's out there is like, yo, I'd love to I can put $50,000 in my account in a month, or net 30, or whatever your number— whatever number excited them. Um, just give them, give them wherever you want to start. I don't care if it's phone sales stuff, you pick. I'll let you, you guide.

Yeah. Um, man, I'd say overall, just starting out, you need to first get rid of like call reluctance. Um, so like when I first started, even though I was coming from like Allstate, because I wasn't very like well-versed in life insurance. I was doubting myself. I was almost scared to make phone calls again. So I would like, like I would hit the call button and then pull my hand away. Like I just touched a hot stove. Like it was, it was that bad. But once you get rid of that call reluctance, you're going to run into a lot of nos. And you know, once you run into the nos, you start learning like what your bottlenecks are and everything. So it might be in the intro, maybe you're talking too fast and especially if you're selling, you know, older clients that could sort of put them off. They might not be able to understand you. It could be, you know, it could be in terms of like trust. You need to sort of like preface the call, set yourself as an authority. Or it could just be, you know, once you're, you're getting into the app, you're getting certain objections like social banking. But I'd say overall, to somebody starting out, what I'd recommend is Cause I went through like a whole rabbit hole of YouTube videos online, people crushing it. I'd say find somebody within your agency that's actively crushing it and then try and copy what they do. That'd be the quickest way to get from like zero to starting to have consistent results. But overall, the game is pretty simple. I'm like, like I said, I consider myself more so of an introvert. So I almost look at sales as like, as like binary almost. It's, it's kind of weird, but they say one, I say zero, they say zero, I say one. But I've actually called up into, into different—

Explain What do you mean that? I want to break that down. I'm curious what you mean by that.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, if they, if they, a lot of the times you'll get the same objections and people saying the same things over, you know, majority of calls. So just having like responses, rebuttals that you know for certain work. Um, an example I could, I could give you of this is like, let's say at the end of the call, the person's like, oh, I need to think about it. I'm like, all right, that's the objection. Next step, I have the objection. I need to isolate the objection. So, okay, you know, completely understand you need to think about it. It's a, it's a big decision. Is that primarily the, the price? Like what, what package you want to go with you need to think about? Or, or is it, you know, whether you actually need the coverage in the first place? Um, so that it kind of splits it off into a fork. There's two different things. It's price or whether they need it. If it's the price, they're like, yeah, I'm not sure if I could, if I could swing the gold package right now. I'm like, okay, well, you know what a lot of people like to do in your situation? They're debating between a couple different packages. We typically go for the lower one to begin with that we know, you know, it was comfortable and sustainable within budget because we could always keep— we could always increase your coverage in the future, you know, if it is comfortable within budget. But at least this way, you know, your final expenses are taken care of and there is something in place, God forbid anything happened to you. Does that sound fair? They'd be like, okay. Or if they say, you know, I need to think if I actually need the coverage, you sort of go back to, I call it the needs analysis part of the call. So that's where you're pretty much like gaining, getting all the ammunition, putting quivers in your, I don't know the exact term, but—

Little backpack or whatever.

Yeah. In your backpack. So if you did the needs analysis part correctly, you could then circle back to like, For example, with one of my clients, they were like, they were like, yeah, my son, you know, he's just getting back up off his feet. He's sober now. And, you know, my health is declining. I want to make sure that, you know, I'm not adding another thing on his plate. So you kind of circle back to that, like the why. And I'm like, okay, so as a mother, you know, it sounded like you wanted to make sure that, you know, if anything were to happen to you, there's not more stress on him than, you know, he's already facing. That's why you, you know, you sort of wanted to have this discussion, right? And you sort of leave that. But yeah, that's an example of how I break it down into binary parts. But the sale overall is, it's just like the intro at the beginning. So I always tell people you don't want to seem more enthusiastic than they are. You want to sort of match or be slightly below their energy because life insurance, it could be a morbid thing to talk about. You don't want to seem like an enthusiastic salesman. And that's something Stephen Ye, he kind of pounds in his course and everything, just be monotone, disgruntled state employee. So after the intro, needs analysis. So make sure you're asking the right questions. They need to have a why, because if there's no why, there's no buy, of course. So like, why are we on the phone call? What are you looking to accomplish? And also figuring out their current situation, like how much they have disposable. That's going to help prevent objections later on, because some people, you get to the end of the call, they're like, well, I have a million in the bank. And I'm like, well, if you did, I mean, we wouldn't be on this phone call. But, um, yeah, just figuring out their current situation, uh, what current coverage they have, how much they have at the end of the month. Um, after the needs analysis, you jump into the underwriting. So I recommend everybody use Toolkits. It's pretty easy, just enter in their health conditions, it'll let you know which carriers are most likely to approve them for what rates. And then you just break that down into 3 different packages, um, after going over the benefits. Make sure you go over the benefits, um, before you jump into the rates. That's another way to prevent an objection because a lot of people will be like, oh, can you send me the information? And I'm like, well, it would pretty much be redundant to what you have written down right there, just with a lot more legal jargon that could be confusing. And they're like, oh, okay, that makes sense. So that kind of, you know, gets rid of that objection. But I always lead with 3 packages, the Gold, Silver, and Bronze. So if they're looking at taking care of a burial, those typically range from, you know, $10,000 to $20,000 depending on how fancy they'd like to be. So bronze, $10,000, silver, $15,000, gold, $20,000. And then, you know, then you sort of ask for the sale the way I ask for the sale after picking up, showing 3 different packages, as I ask. So after looking at these, you know, 3 packages here, John, is there one you feel, you know, would make the most sense to leave behind for the family to take care of things? But also fit comfortably within budget, you'd like to see if we could possibly get you qualified for it. So that's, you know, sort of touching on why they need it and also making sure it does fit within budget to prevent chargebacks and whatnot. So yeah, yeah, I love it.

Do you— how do you get into— this is just me being curious, um, how do you— so you said $10,000, $15,000, $20,000. How do you, how do you, how do you end up at a policy for, say, $40,000 or $50,000 final expense? Like, do you ever get there? And how do you get there if you're Gold? Like, how do you know when to adjust your package prices? You know what I mean? Like, how do you gauge that?

Yeah. Um, so on the needs analysis part, I'll ask them, uh, so are you primarily— so if they're looking at final expenses, um, have you given thoughts whether you want a more formal burial or cremation? Let's say they say a burial. I'm like, okay, and, um, do you know roughly how much those cost in Georgia? Like, oh yeah, for my sister it was $15K. I'm like, okay, would you say you're maybe looking for, you know, $15,000 to $20,000 to take care of this sort of thing? And some people will just tell you flat out right there, they're like, they'll say yeah, or they're like, well, I was actually looking for, you know, around $40,000, leave some money behind for the wife. Um, yeah, or you'll pitch those 3 packages, you'll get to that point, and then they'll bring it up then, and it's like, yeah, we could, we could look at any amount you want.

Yeah.

Um, but if they're, if they're like young enough and healthy enough for an IUL I'm typically pitching like larger increments. So Mutual Omaha, they start at $25,000 for the IUL. So I might pitch like a $30,000, a $40,000, and a $50,000. And then, you know, they could—

sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I asked because I remember early on when I was taught the business early, I would always— I was taught to show $8,000, $10,000, and $12,000. That's what you show, $8,000, $10,000, $12,000.

And everyone picked the $10,000.

And my average policy was $29 And then Sean taught me, he was like, uh, and some of the other top guys started teaching me to go, and this was a long time ago, right? But they go, why don't you show them the most they're eligible for and just tell them, hey, my office requires I show you the most you're eligible for. So the most we can get you with this plan is $40,000. And then option B is, and then I would do what you did with the two lower amounts, maybe $10,000 and $20,000, maybe whatever it was based on that. And dude, the amount of people that started picking $40,000 was mind-blowing to me. I just didn't know that was gonna happen. And I was— because I didn't push it. I was just like, hey, the most you can get is this, and then we'll work in your budget. Here's two other options. Where's your head at, dude? All the time. That's when I started getting like $250 a month policies and $182 a month policies. And so just that one little— one little tweak, um, changed my world. So I was just curious how you get there.

Yeah, those small tweaks lead to big changes sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. Um, shit, I was gonna ask you something else about— oh, I got it. So when you, you talked about like your, your, your— I don't know if the why is the needs— I assume needs analysis is kind of where you try to sort of figure out their why, which you said earlier. If there's no why, there's no— would you say there's no why, there's no buy? I caught that earlier. I don't know if the others caught that one. Um, what are you like, your non-negotiables there? Because as you know and you probably messed it up early, is like not getting enough. So what is it you're looking for in that stage before you're willing to proceed? Are there markers, or how do you, how do you know?

Yeah, um, man, just really looking for like a concrete reason that we're on the call, because some people, they'll be very low like intent, and, um, they'll say, I just wanted to see, you know, what's out there. You know, when I hear that, I'm like, it's probably not going to result in a sale. Um, And in that needs analysis part, a lot of times, one of the questions I always ask is, do you have any sort of coverage right now? And they're like, oh, yeah, I have $20,000 in place right now. And then I'll sort of dig deeper. I'm like, OK, well, honestly, Mr. Wetmore, the $20,000 you have in place right now is enough to take care of a burial. Is there anything that makes you feel like that wouldn't be enough or makes you want to look into getting more coverage? And then that's when they'll tell me like, oh yeah, I want that to take care of the burial and I want to leave something a little additional for my wife, or I want to make sure the mortgage is paid for a couple months because my wife can't pay for that herself, things like that. So really just having like a— because if you don't have a why, you don't have any ammunition either. Like later on, if you get an objection like, I'm not sure if You know, this would make sense for me, or if I need this, well, if you don't have a why, you can't really fight that. Yeah.

So can't use their words. It's really powerful when you can use their words against them.

Yeah. Yeah. But I, I'd say it kind of, kind of comes with time. You have to feel it out and get like a concrete. Yeah. If I feel like it's not concrete enough, I won't proceed. And if they're like, ah, I just want to get a little something extra. Well, okay. Why, why do you want to get a little something extra? You want to pay for the family, leave money for the wife for her to maintain her quality of life? Cause she's going to be losing your income. Like, what is the exact reason you want more income? So don't be afraid to dig a little deeper because in the end it's just going to help you out, give you more ammunition to use at the end to overcome those objections.

Because I find a lot of people struggle there where they get the initial one and they're like, got it, that's enough, let me move on. Yeah, it's very easy to like for them to weasel out of that down the road. Um, you know what I find funny too is like I can remember when I figured out like you could feel it It's like, all right, this one's, this one's closing. You kind of like, you would know a good majority of the time. Whereas like, I don't know, you ever show pricing and it's like a coin flip? You're like, I have no idea if they're gonna pick one or not. Yeah, I think when I was new, I had no idea 95, 98% of the time. I was like, I don't know what they're gonna do. But then as I got better, only maybe like 20, you know what I mean, 25% of the time I was like Yeah, kind of a coin flip. I have no idea what's coming, but I'll give it a shot.

Yeah.

Um, I think where I remember learning too is like recognizing a laydown too. And sometimes I would, I would just because the script said so, I would dig so deep and this guy's begging to just buy. And kind of learning how to— are you there yet where you can kind of read it and be like, oh, this cat just I can skip the BS. Like, meaning if you did that to me, I'd be like, dude, I tell people now if I'm going to buy something and they're harping, doing their thing, I'm like, dude, I'm in sales. I know what— just skip. Just— I don't need that part. I'm buying, bro. I'm the easiest sell ever. Just get to it. Obviously they don't do that, so sometimes we have to adapt, or we can— I've lost them trying to dig too much sometimes, which is weird to say.

Yeah, I did that a lot in the beginning too. Like, my script has changed like a lot over time. One of the questions I used to ask like everybody, and I would like, like regardless of what they said, I would always ask this question is, well, you know, if something were to happen to you or if something were to happen to, to you, how would your wife feel both emotionally and financially? You know, and that's kind of like I've had people hang up on me right after that question because like, yeah, this guy is— you got to have a really good tonality.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a very scripty like, like it works some, but it also doesn't work some too. That's a good example. I like that one.

Yeah. But a lot of the times, like, you won't have to dig too deep with those. I mean, with the people that are laydowns, like, they'll pretty much tell you straight up, like, hey, I want to get it for X, Y, and Z reason. And in that case, like, if I feel like it's strong enough, like, I'm just moving on to the next thing. So you don't want to—

It just takes time. For those watching, it takes time to be able to feel that and see it. It's like, there's a lot of reps and dudes just had a lot of reps in a short window. Funny.

Yeah, definitely. Uh, you get better at feeling it out over time, but yeah. Yeah.

What's your thoughts on scripts? Just in general.

Um, man, if you ask the guys, I'm probably the most, they call, they call me AI Tom because I'm like the most scripted person. Um, I haven't memorized at this point, but you know, I don't look at a script when I present anymore. It's pretty much just all from, from memory. I try to follow it as close as possible. And, uh, that's, I, I would say that's why I kind of look at sales as binary because it's like, okay, I have this system, I have these rebuttals and it gets me X, Y, and Z close rate. Like I'll close, you know, 25 to 33%, just a matter of running X amount of people through this system and I'm going to get X results. So, but yeah, more, more than anybody, I'm, I'm probably the most scripted, but you have to. You have to have the versatility to come off the script and also like bring somebody back onto the script if they're trying to, um, you know, take charge of the call. If you don't have like, if you don't have control of the call, then it's going to be a hard sale for sure.

So are you recruiting and hiring now?

Trying to.

Are you just selling? Are you?

Yeah. I have, uh, 2 agents right now. Um, one of them is selling. Uh, has this little policy, but it's dialing. Um, the other one kind of, kind of fell off a little bit, but how's that adventure going? Uh, it's, it's a different beast. Obviously it's different beast. Cause like, mm-hmm. I, I'm like the least salesy person. Like I try not to be. Um, and you know, it's sort of like having that conversation with people. You kind of feel a little bit salesy. I try to just tell my own experience. Um, and it's like, I don't want to follow up with people because then it seems kind of salesy. I'll shoot them a quick text and, you know, yeah, it's, it's a different beast for sure.

You're feeling it, right? So think about this, just like they're here, they're trying to close, they are trying to sell, and they sound kind of salesy. Fair? When they're on the phone, when they're new. We sound salesy on the phone. Why is that, do you think? Why are we— that— why are we sound salesy?

Because we're not as comfortable.

Okay. Yep. Why are we not comfortable?

Not enough reps.

Correct. Okay, so now we go to you. Why do you sound salesy trying to recruit?

Not enough reps. Amen, bro.

It makes sense. It's the same game. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you'll get to a point, dude, in the recruiting, if— and if you watch any of us that, that do it at a high level, if you will, Like, we're not pitching like we did at the beginning. In the beginning, I was pitching agents. It was sale. I was selling them on doing this. And as you start to do it more and more, I'm selling people on why not to do it, almost. You mean, like, I'm talking about the difficulties and the— like, I'm, I'm almost like— it almost sounds like I don't want them, because I really don't, you know what I mean? I want the right people. So it is learning to do it in a way that's like trying to identify the things you really want. So as you're doing it, pay attention to the things you thought you told them along the way.

Yeah.

And the way they respond based on what they heard.

Okay.

Because it'll be different, right? They'll go against what you thought you explained. And you'd be like, why is he doing that? I thought I was pretty damn clear on how many leads to buy or what to do, you know what I mean? Like, you'll be frustrated in a sense. And so as you do it and, and they, they frustrate you, or there's things you dislike after they get started, those now become part of your discovery equivalent on the recruiting side. You'll ask more questions that are directed by the things that annoy you later. Like, I want to think about it in the sales presentation. It drives you nuts. So now up front, you word things differently so you don't get there, ideally. You know what I'm saying? In the recruiting side, the same way. But early on, just like we want sales, we want agents. And so we, we skip the process sometimes, or, and, or we don't even know it. We do what we think the process is, you know what I mean? And you'll learn, dude. You're— and you're around such good people that understand it with, with the reps. You'll figure that piece out. And again, you're selling enough that you don't really need the agents. You just want to build something cool and help people get paid and do all that jazz. If you do it for those, you'll, you'll be fine eventually. It's just, that's a lot of reps, dude. I, um, I did hundreds and hundreds, uh, my first 2 years I did 600 interviews. And at the end of 2 years, I still had no regular writers. I'd have people get started and they quit and get started and quit and get started. Plus, I was kind of an ass to people. Oh, that makes sense. So it was kind of combination of both. Um, but once I figured it out, man, the thing, the thing blew up pretty well. So love it. Get effing paid.

Get effing paid.

Get effing paid.

Get effing paid.

What up, guys? If you guys are looking to get get to a new level in your career, you may have seen that we've been running some workshops in my office in Atlanta. I have them every quarter now. Last one sold out fully. It was a massive success. Um, couple different levels you can attend. Just a general ticket, um, get you in the door, listen to 2 days of training, interactive workshop style. We really dive into what you got going on and how to get to new levels. If you're looking to be in a new crowd, higher level up, um, I have a private mastermind. Last one was at my house. It was insane. Um, value that everybody added to each other, and we had a good time. And, uh, I heard it was way underpriced relative to what people got out of it. You can check out some of the testimonials here, I'm sure. But if you'd like to attend, click the link below. I do 'em every quarter. The date'll be around here somewhere. Look forward to seeing you there. If you are in the insurance industry and you're looking to scale and grow your business, I highly encourage you to check John Wetmore out. Probably honestly made the cost of the event back in like the first 2 hours of being here.

If you want to win and you you want to grow, I'd get around John as much as you can. John Wetmore is a beast.

So much value in everything that I've learned here. Growing, about building, delegating. He's talking about systems and automating right now. It is worth the price of admission.

Make sure you get to the next one.

Anything else you want to add that you think is important, maybe that I didn't ask you, or you want to share with people, or just things on your mind that you think will help others win? Anything come to mind?

Um, I guess for new agents, the most important part is just being coachable. It's not a complicated business. You buy more leads, you have more conversations, more presentations, you're going to make more sales. And at the beginning, you're going to suck at sales. Just like I suck at recruiting right now, I need to get more reps in. But as you get more reps in, it just becomes more easy, more natural, and becomes more of a numbers game.

Yeah, you online, social or anything, if people want to follow you? I assume my team already asked all for all your info, but I'll let you share it here too.

Uh, @tomfocho on Instagram right now.

I love it. Easy. Sharing the journey?

Yes, sir. Putting it out there? You are? I love it, I love it.

That's good stuff. Anything while I got you on here? Um, we got a few minutes. I'm actually—

I think I'm—

I think I'm interviewing Freddie next, dude. Yeah, uh, I am. Hell yeah. Anything that I can help with while I'm on here, any questions you have or anything you're just shit curious about, I'm like, hell.

Um, yeah, I guess more so on the recruiting side, like, like getting started. Um, so I actually moved out here to Dallas with like the sole purpose of like, I want to build. I mean, I feel like this is a good place. This is like a place I want to anchor as like my home base, like moving forward, live here for, you know, decades. Um, and I want to build something huge out here because I feel like this is an amazing place for business. So. I don't really know anybody out here. I have like 2 friends out here, um, that I knew before moving here. But now, like, what advice would you have as far as like, you know, starting to have those conversations, starting to build something out here?

Are your friends in the space or no? They do something else?

No, they do something else.

Cool, makes sense. Um, are you just working from the house?

Yeah.

Yeah, so I think early on, man, it's, um It's finding a way, just like the sales side, to have a lot of conversations, right? It's like, so who can you have the conversations with? No different than in insurance, right? In insurance, we can do friends and family, we can go cold, or we can buy leads.

Does that make sense?

Friends and family, cold, buy leads— those are your options. And you could go get referrals— that's kind of the warm side, right? Those are sort of your options on the lead side. Those are the same options on the recruiting side. So the question is, do you want to do friends and family? Do you want to recruit people you know, talk about it with people you know, or do you not? Does that make sense? Like, who are you? Are you okay talking about it with your buddies? Are you like, eh, just not my thing, right?

They're pretty— yeah, they're kind of like locked in on their careers right now.

So yeah, so there you go. So grab— and mine, I didn't— I didn't want— I didn't say yes to that really either. Does that make sense? I had some buddies. I'm like, yeah, I'm not really the guy to pitch some shit like they see me doing it, they'll ask. And I hired some and I tried, but I— it wasn't my favorite thing to do, um, right? So then you go, all right, what are the cold options? People you don't know, right? Waiters, waitresses, Ubers, people that seem like they're sharp, just in, in your everyday life, right? So that's one option for you to just talk to people, you know. I sit down with someone that's a really good waiter, I'm like, I engage. And I don't pitch them, but I'm like, yo, what's up, man? Is this all you do, bro? You're really good at this. What's your— what's your background? Do you do something out— and I'm just, I'm just talking, you know what I mean? Just creating relationships with people and see if there's an opportunity for someone that's looking for more, you know. But if you have enough conversations, just like sales, enough of them fall in line and go the right way. That's not like an awkward pitch on every stranger I see at the gas station or anything. I'm not into that.

Yeah, right.

But if I see opportunity for someone sharp, I'm open to— I know how to create a conversation and guide it where I want it to go without it seeming slimy. You know what I mean? So I can get there. Um, you can go cold on social a couple different ways. You can certainly create social and hope like hell the world figures out a way to follow you. Yes, does it make sense? Like, dude, I post every day on every platform and, and I get a good following, but if I relied on just that, I, I, I would not have any size agency. You know what I mean? So for me, that's a very long-term thing that pays crazy dividends now relative to when I started doing it. But it works, and it's a delayed gratification game. So if you're going to play the social game, play it for the long run. And my advice that I would give you that I wish I did better is document the journey the whole way. Don't wait until you feel like you're amazing or hit some level before you start talking about it, because quite frankly, people are going to relate more to you than they are to me. Doesn't mean— it's just the reality, especially when they're new, because they're like, oh dang, he just started last year and is killing it, whereas I'm supposed to be winning at this stage, you know what I mean? So it's like I'm less inclined to get the, the newbie agent reach out. I'm more inclined now to get the guy that's killing it that doesn't know how to get to the next level. That makes sense. They see everything I built, they're like, I know how to sell, I want to build. I get more of those today. Right, so you can post your stuff. For me, it was like a billboard. My social media is a billboard. It's an advertisement of everything I got going on. And now all I got to do is find a way to fill people— get people to it. So when I speak at events, or I create an email list, or I give away free documents on social, I can, I can attract people to my funnel of my world. It's a little bit of that. And then the other option is you can straight up DM people. Right, that's another piece on social. So, hey, see you're in the business, I help people issue $500K a year in the life space, wondering if you're happy with where you're at financially or you're open to a conversation. Okay, I, I sent that to 100 people a day, bro.

Like today?

Like, no, during my early buildup. Now today in my agency, we do that thousands of times a day because I taught everyone how to do it. Oh Jesus, that makes sense. I don't, I don't send the DMs personally anymore. That's Does it make sense? Because once you build it, no different than you don't have to call aged leads anymore. That makes sense. Because I'm going to give you the freeways first because those are all free. All these so far are free.

Yeah, right.

And they're easy to turn on. And as you're starting to build, the real way is to get you not be the only one building. If you're doing it by yourself, it's harder to grow than if you have a crew of people also wanting to build, right? So I taught people how to do it free because they weren't in a position yet to pay to do it. So I gave people free ways to do it first to see if they would actually take action, right? So I would go on LinkedIn— this is back in the day, I'm not saying LinkedIn's the magic today, I'm just telling you what I did, right? 2014, '15, '16, '17, dude, 100 DMs a day. I would go on LinkedIn and you can search— I can search whatever criteria I want: company, title, final expense expert, mortgage protection specialist, life insurance agent, agency builder. Or I could search ABC company, XYZ company. I can do whatever I want. Friend them. Once we're connected on LinkedIn, you can send unlimited DMs, right? In today's world, your age, TikTok, Instagram, all the stuff, you know what I mean? Like, share your journey there and then find— if again, DMing is an option, you choose whether or not you want to do it. It's high volume, low reward, but I can give you crazy stories about massive success stories that have come from doing it. You know, the percentage is low, but it can, it can hit, and it's easy to do. Um, last thing you can do is every client you talk to, bro, you're selling a lot of apps, right? You ever thought at the end to go, hey Bob, quick question for you, man, before I, before I run. Obviously I told you I'm crazy busy, I got a lot of appointments. There are a ton of Bobs out there looking for help. Half the country doesn't have insurance. I happen to be hiring. Do you— just quick question— do you happen to know anybody, dude, that's looking for some extra money that can do what I just did for you? Do you know anybody? That's the way I did it. I didn't try to pitch the client. I just— they knew I was busy because when you book it, you tell them how busy you are, you know what I mean? And typically you're late and you're running behind and all these things. So I was like, dude, we're growing like crazy. I get a ton of requests. I'm hiring, you know, here in Dallas. Do you just happen to know anybody? And dude, I would— if you ask I mean, how many people do you present to a week?

A week? I'm getting like 3 to 6 a day.

Uh, imagine you just ask 3 to 6 people a day, dude, if they know anybody that could just do what you did for them. You're bound to get some people go, I need extra money, my cousin just got licensed, my buddy— like you— my buddy was in P&C and he's not happy, he's looking for something else, he's looking for something, I'll refer you.

And I—

it would just— it was creating conversations. You know, so I did a combination of all of those things because I wanted to talk to 30 people a week about the business. That was my goal, was 30. Give me 30 a week. And then on once— and this, this next piece wasn't hard for me to understand, but it's hard for most agents to understand how to invest in getting— because you can get unlimited recruiting leads today if you start paying for them. Um, it's just like client leads. And so the last option is to pay for them, you know. And you can buy recruiting leads. There's— they're, they're literally— you can get them at will. Um, and I just started investing because I didn't want to do the other stuff long term. It was cool, it taught me a lot, taught me how to have conversations, it built thick skin, it taught me how to hear no a lot. I dealt with like, ah, bullshit, that's a scam, you're an idiot, F off. It taught me all that piece on the recruiting side. And then I was like, yo, let me just pay. And then eventually we started paying, just pay for job ads. Here's mortgage protection specialists, call vet leads, whatever wording you want, it's relatively irrelevant. You know, but you can get unlimited people in right away, and then you just pick up the phone and call them, you know. And then you could, just like everything else, get advanced and go, all right, I get people in, send them to a landing page with a little video explaining what we do, and give them an option to book on your calendar. You can do all that too. You can get more and more advanced with it if you want. Um, but it's going to be learning how to just have a lot of conversations, dude. And, and, and you're already on the phone with clients. So it's like— and I'm not saying be weird about it, don't go over the top, don't be a lunatic, don't be— you know what I mean? It's just like very casually, especially if you have a good connection. If you have a shitty connection, it is what it is, you know? But I, I've just— I've hired a lot of clients over the years, and I've hired even more clients, family members, friends, children, things like that, um, that are just needed opportunity, you know? And then again, for me, it was paid. And then how to scale it, I started teaching other people, do the free stuff first, and when you're sick of the free stuff and you want to pay let me know, I can get you the leads, you know. And anybody can. It's not like because I have magic ones, because they are still just everyday average people, and most of them are going to suck. But it's weeding through people to find some good ones, man. Yeah, you know, and, and the better you understand how you can help people get paid, the better you learn how to articulate that and come off in a way that you're just looking for this type of person, that you're not needy and desperate. The commission breath, the whole thing. Yeah, so many people do that on the agency side too, you know. But when you're making the money you're making and you just want to actually help people win, it's a very different angle of conversation, you know. So just, just be willing to go through the reps, man, and, and understand you're going to believe in people that aren't going to work out, and it's going to be frustrating, and you're going to want to bang your head against the wall because you see how easy it is. But articulating that ease to other people is a challenge because you got to keep in mind they have their whole world around them. And all their noise in their life is telling them everything, you know what I mean? So you're always going to fight that piece. Um, so for, for you, if you want to build, dude, it's an everyday battle, everyday grind. And with time, you'll find some good people, and you won't be the only one in your group doing it. And then you start catching some momentum, you know what I mean? It's just a— it's a much more delayed gratification game. You don't see the impact for 3 to 6 months when you're building. Whereas when you're selling, you see the impact in 3 to 6 hours.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

It's like quick. The building side is way more delayed gratification. It takes time. But you got such good people around you, man. My advice would be just start learning how to talk. Go aim for speed, having 30 conversations about— have you ever watched Trey Honeycutt?

Trey Honeycutt, I've seen him.

He's been around forever. He always says, and I forget his number, but it's ballpark 30 people a week. He goes, take 3 to 5 people every day from not knowing about the business to knowing about the business. Just that simply. If you can get 3 to 5 people a day that don't know about it now to know about it, you'll have success long term. Got you.

Okay.

And those are just some ways to do it. I'm sure you're smart enough and can think of other ways, you know what I mean? But those are, those are a few different ways that I've done it.

So, gotcha. I'm definitely gonna Definitely going to implement that for sure. Like, I like the— because I'm already sort of like trying to build like on social, putting out content. Yeah. The DMs, I feel like that could possibly work.

It will. Because they're going to come see your content. The minute you DM people, they're initially going to go to your profile. So your profile better be something attractive to them.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And that would help with like getting like local people too, because I feel like that's one of the main things with like because I was in Alaska. There was— I don't think there's any offices out there, at least none that I knew of. It was like a lot harder to, to start up and like get selling and everything just completely through Zoom. But if I had somebody I could just like— that's like sitting right next to me, I could point, like, correct, be much— that much easier to make them successful.

So, and if I were doing it from the beginning today, I would do all that, and I would, as soon as possible, I would have— I would have an office space because I could create a different kind of culture. Than everyone's sitting at home in their PJs kind of hoping like hell they get on a Zoom, you know what I mean? So I would create a local— I'm all about the Zoom thing, but I would definitely create something local because you'll feel different too, getting engaged with people daily. Um, so I would do that as soon as you could. Let's go like, yeah, let me, let me run an office. Let me— and if you haven't been to some, you should go visit a bunch and see how they run, because the ones— the dudes that build offices kill it.

Yeah. When would you, uh, when would you like recommend getting an office? Like at what stage?

Hell, I had one my first month in, bro. $300, because you can, you can always get a shared space. You can get something cheap. Does that make sense? You can get one of those shared office spaces for $300, $400, $500 a month. You know, you don't have, you don't have to do anything massive. Now I own buildings, but early on, bro, $300 a month office, bro. Come sit on the floor, dude. I don't have an extra chair. Pull up a carpet. That's how we started. It wasn't anything fancy at all, dude. It was rat infested. It was dirty carpets. It was disgusting. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was boiler room shit early on, you know, but we were making money, you know what I'm saying? It was just people got to see the grind every day, and I got to engage with people and talk to people and see, you know what I mean? It's, it's just a different game. Um, so I did it early. So as soon as you're serious, you know what I mean, I would, I would heavily, highly consider like, yo, maybe I do something over here.

Okay. Yeah, I was thinking like, I forgot where I looked. It was like, uh, Office Cafe or something like that, but I couldn't find anything that was less than like $2,000 a month. But when you say like shared office space, I'm like, okay, that's more logical to start out like.

Correct.

More like that.

And you can, you get a shared conference room, you can use so many hours a day. You know what I mean? Like they have all that's, they have a ton of those out there. WeWork was one of them. The, I forget the name of the other company that does it, but there's, there's a shitload of them. There's one right by my house. Where all kinds of people just from all different backgrounds just pull in and use this office building, you know what I mean? And it's, it's pretty common out there, dude. So it's, it's easy to find if you, if you're looking for the right thing, you know. And you can always upgrade down the road.

Yeah, okay, makes sense.

All right, my dude, well, I appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for, uh, getting on. And, uh, if I can help you along the way, man, don't be afraid to reach out.

Appreciate it.

Uh, if you want, I have, I have like some merch that I usually let people get. So if you go to my website, if you like any of the stuff— I'm like a do more and get shit done kind of guy— if you like anything, just let me know and I'll send it to you free. Just pick out like a shirt or a hat if you want it, you know. Go check it out, the merch site. If I could send you anything, just let me know and we'll get it to you.

Sounds good, John. I appreciate you, man.

All right, my dude, appreciate your time. Have a good one.

You too. See you, bro.