This Sales Training Made Me $50,000 PER MONTH As An Insurance Agent ft. James Cunningham | Ep38

Most agents approach this thing like they're trying to roll out of bed and play church league softball once a month or something.

Don't work. Yeah. You want to be a professional and make professional income, you got to treat this thing as such. So, but once I came to the realization that I can make this my NFL, that's when I was all in. You know what I'm saying?

What up, y'all? John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Got James Cunningham on with me, and quite frankly, my team found you. and we're like, you should talk to this dude. So I, I see you've done some cool things in life. I'm, I'm checking out your little bio and had a very brief conversation offline, maybe 60 seconds, and, uh, it's, it's cool getting to know you, dude. Appreciate you taking some time to get on and share.

I appreciate you for having me on. You know, it's always cool to be able to, you know, put time and energy and being able to impact people, you know, from all different walks of life.

Yeah, there ain't many that actually enjoy that, weird enough.

Well, the ones who do, they end up having a lot of success in life, you know, because the more people you serve, more impact you have, you know. That's, that's the beauty of life, you know, when you put your time and energy into those things. It's hard to get fulfillment from, uh, just everything about you, you, you, you, you, you get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I love it, dude. Have you always been that way? Or something hit, something changed? What's—

no, you— it's all about your upbringing. So I grew up, um, in an environment where I was kind of almost forced to have to lead, you know, starting in my household. I grew up in the inner city of Cleveland. Cleveland, are you familiar with Cleveland?

A little bit. I don't— I'm not— I know of it. I don't— I'm not well enough, like I've been there a ton or not, but I've been I know it's not the greatest. I grew up in the, in the projects outside of Boston.

Got you. So I grew up in the projects in Cleveland.

Yeah.

Now, I have never been to Boston, but I would imagine from everything I've learned and I know about Boston, there's a lot of similarities. Yeah. As far as demographic-wise.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard the same, you know.

So growing up, you know, it's, it's one of those things where it's like blue collar. You work hard, nothing is given to you, everything is earned. You know, so I grew up in those situations where my mom was married and divorced 5 times, so I never really had stability. And, you know, I had to look around, what am I going to do to create some stability around here? And there's only so much you can do when you're a young boy. I have an older sister, younger sister, and I was the first person in my house to go to high school, get a diploma, first person to go to college. Get a degree. And it didn't take me long to realize that at the age— I was about 9 years old— I'm like, if I don't do something to get out of here, I'm going to be stuck here. So I knew where my future could be, and I just had to figure out and find that, that avenue to get me up out of there, you know. So I know we were talking about, you know, football a little bit before this, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I would say it had a natural thing, but it's starting younger from just Yeah, I mean, that's common in that world.

A lot of times it's sports. People try to relate it to getting out from sports. Like when I was— I remember my mom, um, I remember getting our first— I was like 10 when we got our first car. Prior to that, it was public transportation. I remember my mom getting her first job, you know what I mean? Like I watched her go to school in her 20s and stuff, and it's like— but I always remember she wanted to get us out. I was always— it's like we went from a, a 12-story high-rise building, they were like Twin Towers, then we moved to like a, a 4-story one, then we moved to like a 3-story one, then we went to our first like 3-family home, like it was like a house but it was a 3-family. And I never lived in a single-family house my whole life, so I was like late 20s, you know what I mean? But I remember my mom, so I remember being little going like, she's striving. That was just the norm, striving for more, striving again. That's pretty common in that environment. It's like, how do we, how do we get over there, right?

You know, um, but I wouldn't change it though, because that's what makes you, you know, built you, right? Absolutely. You know, I remember them days, public transportation was like, man, it, it really did suck. I'm not gonna lie to you, you know, like For example, it took me over an hour to get to school. I would have to catch like 3 different buses. I live right off of West 25th. Now I went to this all-boy Catholic high school. I'm trying to like— this is my, my, my ticket to get out of here, you know. St. Ed— St. Edward, by the way, shout out to anybody who's listening who know about St. Ed. We got more— we didn't win. We, man, we got beat this weekend. We should have won anyways. Yeah, more state championships than any school in the state of Ohio. So no kidding on that, you know. I just— I know the original question was, you know, was it natural?

That's all good. Yeah, yeah, you just kind of figure it out, man. I have flashbacks to the bus back. I was trying to explain it to my wife. She's like— she wasn't raised with money, but she grew up in the country, dirt roads and stuff. And we were talking about the buses and I'm— ours, when you get in, you, you know, drop the quarter and get in. But then she's like, how do you know where to get off and what time they come? And I'm like, I mean, there's a schedule. You just— you learn when you— when that's— there's a— you know when to be at the bus stop. I don't know, you just— no one's ever asked me that before. And she's like, how do you know where to get off? I'm like, you just kind of learn it. And there's a little— there's a little rubber strip on the side, you push it and it dings up there, and you say, I want to get off at the next stop. And he knows the stop.

She's like, what? Man, you know, you see some interesting people, um, you have some interesting encounters, but yeah, buddy, times that you wouldn't, you wouldn't trade, man, when you look back, because you come so far in life and, you know, you can truly appreciate how far you've come. Yeah, I'm from those type of environments and backgrounds, so yeah, yeah, for sure.

I love it. I was able to, uh, my son, my youngest is 13. And, uh, I was able to take him to the World Series this year. So we went to New York, went to the last two games, so we got to see—

are you a New York fan?

Not— I grew up in Boston, dude. I can't stand New York. Nah, my son's a Dodgers fan and we're in Atlanta now, um, and Freddie Freeman went from Atlanta to the Dodgers, so he watches— he's been a Dodgers fan for years. Just an opportunity, have an experience. And, uh, when I'm up there, we stay in Manhattan and the game is obviously in the Bronx. And so I didn't look up how to get there. I'm like, I'll just figure it out. I know how to get around the city. And so I decided to take him on a subway, his first, and he don't— he ain't raised like that.

No, no, in New York it's completely different than your traditional. Yeah, it is.

Yeah, we get there and he goes, Dad, Can we Uber back? I didn't really like the subway.

You know, you work hard so your kids can go through what you go through, but they sometimes—

I love it.

Like, they can appreciate what they have too, you know?

Yeah, 100%. So you got— you got how many little ones you got?

I just got rid of one.

Just one?

How old is she? 14.

Okay, cool age. Which, you know, which now we were talking offline, you get to spend time with her, training her. You were in insurance? Yep, 14 years, retired at 37, dude.

37. Yeah, so it's not normal, uh, for people to be able to retire. And I started when I was 23. Yeah, so you take 23 to 37, that's good. Over 14+ years by the time I retired. And, uh, You know, I was fortunate to find the right place, right time, right people. And I also had the right mindset too, because, yeah, you can come across the right opportunity with the wrong mindset and everything else is good to go and you blow it, you waste it. You know, so I was definitely fortunate to, you know, things aligned where I was able to just come in as a student, you know, and work my butt off. You know, I— nothing was handed to me. I didn't know one person. And it was happening. I ended up coming across opportunity. But yeah, man, I mean, 14+ years of blood, sweat, and tears and grinding, sacrificing.

I'm in your system, dude.

Yeah, I know. Moving from Cleveland to, you know, I spent majority of my career here in Indiana. So, okay, I've stayed here since I retired. And by the time my daughter, she chooses what school she's going to go to, we'll probably move wherever she goes.

I love it, I love it. So you did you go— so you 20, you right out of school, right out of college? Did you go to college?

Yeah, I went to the University of Mount Union, uh, Mount Union College. When I was in school, I studied sports management and business administration. Yeah, but what I did, so I played football and I ran track there, and, uh, when I graduated, I had aspirations. I was trying to be a professional football player. Okay. I was hoping to have been one of the first people to come out of there and get drafted. Um, I ran with Pierre Garçon. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him. He played football there too, so he did what I was trying to do. Yeah. Um, but long story short, when I graduated in 2006, what I did was I took a position. I worked at Wells Fargo. I was there for a year, and then I went to go do these tryouts. And then after that, that's when, uh, I ended up coming across, you know, financial service opportunity, you know.

Were you out there doing like, uh, the union stuff and child safety kits, that kind of deal? Yeah, buddy.

Yeah, man, I started like the real Monday, Thursday dial days, field day.

Yeah, buddy. Oh, you were fielding? You started knocking?

Okay, doing the real work, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so much easier now and more productive, but I wouldn't change it, man. I'm so happy I came up at that time, because you—

it's—

you really truly appreciate, you know, the, the transformations of the changes within the industry now, the way you can do business virtually. Like, it's amazing.

It's wild. Yeah, it truly is. It's, it's game-changing now, dude. It's so much, so much opportunity for people to see so many more clients, right? You know, and recruits building. I mean, so it is so easy today to build it.

Yes. And that why, I mean Um, people come to the industry because of how much money you can make, and I, I think truly people stay because of who they become. But it's a lot easier now to make more money, you know, so you can retain more people. So, but yeah, that, that's, that, that was it. That, that's how I ended up coming into the industry.

How was the journey from whatever it was, 23 and banging on doors, to retiring at 37? How does, how does one duplicate that, bro? Like, what, what was that journey like for you? So many of you have asked if there's an option for more access, more direct coaching. And so we've created a coaching platform called the Winner's Circle where you have a couple different options. There is a one-on-one option to where we can work directly with you on a regular basis. And then there's a small group setting, 4 to 6 people, really high achievers looking to get to just a new level in their career. We've had a ton of success in this already. First month, actually the first guy that joined deposited $7,500, worked with them back and forth one-on-one. The The very next month he deposited over $30 grand. So basically a 5x return on his income in 30 days. So if you're looking for something like that, you can click on the link below, get access to an application because I'm not taking everybody. I do wanna make sure it's a good fit for both of us. And if we feel like you'd be a good fit, we'll set up a one-on-one call directly with me, um, and kind of go through your struggles, what you need help with, and what I expect of people that are joining the coaching program. Um, so if you feel like it'd be a good fit for you and something you want more of, click the link below and we'll see you on the other side. Welcome to the Winner's Circle.

Um, so if I go all the way back to when I started, right, um, again, so I didn't know anyone, you know. Yeah, here's how I ended up coming across Opportunity. I was at Wells Fargo for a year and I literally would work full-time and I was driving like an hour from my house to the workplace, get off work, drive an hour back home, and then I will work out for like 2-3 hours. And I was prepping for NFL Combine.

Got it, got it.

So I graduated in 2006, but I did all my tryouts in 2007. I didn't have a good enough career where I was getting drafted and I had an agent that would represent me, so I had to like save up enough money to finance all of my travels to go do this tryout here, there. So, um, when that was done and my, my funds start getting very low, that's when you come to the realization like, okay, my bills are never going to slow down, so I need to— I got to find something. When I left there, I left good terms, right? Um, I ended up getting promoted to assistant branch manager, so just one position away from being a branch manager and I never had true aspirations of doing that for the rest of my career. They knew it, right? Um, but in that— you're not even around anymore, that, that division of Wells Fargo. The bank is still around, but financial—

yeah, yeah.

Um, so anyways, when I did that, it was all about preparing to become a professional football player. That was my plan. So I get done with this, do these tryouts, I'm waiting for a team to call me. It doesn't work like I thought it was gonna— I thought it was gonna be a quick turnaround time. So my bills are still, uh, coming in, and I have to hurry up and find a job. So I went down to the school, my university, Mount Union, and met with the head of our Career Services department, and Rebecca Doak. I wrote about her in my book because I don't— if it wasn't for her, I'm not sure where my life would be. But yeah, um, you go back down to school, you meet with individuals who can potentially get you on the right path, and Long story short, she recommended a few opportunities. And it's funny because, you know, you know how it is, man, in college, they usually— well, at least at my school, they did not, they did not encourage us to get into sales. Yeah, it was like, you're, you're committing a crime. So they tried their hardest to get us to do things that was 9 to 5, you know, You get, you get it, right? So, um, she asked me, you know, what are you looking for? And I said, similar to what I did at Wells Fargo. And I saw a few job ads and, you know, some descriptions that met the criteria, what I was looking for. Yeah, me apply. And, you know, fast forward a couple of weeks after, maybe not even one of the alumni who went to Mount Union who was where I ended up having my career. He called me. He played baseball, Nick Zangardi. And, um, I came in and I didn't know anything about insurance. The only experience I had was there was a guy who played football with me. He's done very well in his career. He's, he's been with, uh, Northwestern Mutual, um, and he, he got me into the internship opportunity with them. And nothing against that company, But the experience I had, I thought at that time that's how all insurance companies operate.

It's different.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I came in for my interview, the funny thing is I didn't even know it was insurance. Um, I tried my hardest to research things, but there wasn't much to be able to truly research compared to what you can look at now. Uh, but when I came in for the first time, I walk into this environment and I'm like there are individuals, and I know that they're doing something because I see the parking lot. I see the energy. And I can just tell how people are walking. This—

for—

I've never, ever, never been in an office environment where people have smiles on their face. They're walking like they're actually got something to do and something going on. And then, you know, I think it also was— it stood out to me that the people were young, not just young in age, but young in their thinking, right? And when you come from a locker room background as an athlete, there's certain things that you're gonna like look for, and experiences before didn't meet that criteria.

But I'm like, there's something going on here.

So, um, it wasn't the easiest starting because being the first person in my family to go to high school, get a diploma go to college, get a degree. My mother was not happy that I was not using my college degree. And she wasn't the most supportive. I remember doing— check this— I remember doing my first, like, like, practice presentation with my mother. And I get done. And this was at a time where you had to memorize an 8-page script. Which is one of the hardest things I ever did in my life. So I got a lot of respect for people who memorize lines for movies and stuff like that. It's— that's not easy, especially when you've been hit upside the head playing football. Um, I do this, I do my presentation with her, and I, I literally thought I killed it. My mother, she looked me in my eyes and she said, if you think you're going to go into people's homes and sell insurance, you must be out your rabbit ass mind. And I'm so happy she said that though, because if she wouldn't have said that, I would not have put the intentional additional time in to make sure that I was prepared when I was starting. Because if you didn't have your presentation down, you couldn't start. So yeah, I came in prepared past that. And, uh, you know, I was put with the right person who showed me how to navigate in the field, how to be active, how to like literally make things happen out of nothing, you know. Um, and that's all I need to see, man. My first presentation was literally probably the worst presentation in the history of the company. Um, but I didn't give a shit. I didn't care because that— some people will buy, some people won't buy, so what? Just let me do more presentations. And my field trainer, after that first presentation, he was like, you're not doing any more today, but you're gonna watch the rest of them. Um, I, I didn't Man, I ran into a lot of stuff because even before I started my career, I actually had a DUI. So, you know, when you're trying to get your license—

yeah, buddy, yeah.

And this was before, you know, so I was still being a young idiot, right? Early 20s. Um, that held me back. It literally took almost 6 months before the Department of Insurance approved my license. And until that gets approved, you can't even transact and do business. The right way. So, um, I was able to figure out ways to be able to make some money by doing presentations, and it all worked out. But man, all it took for me was to see that I was in an environment where I had the support, um, and there was nothing that's going to hold me back, you know. But at the same token, when you see people who have already done what you're trying to do and they're willing to show you how to do it, systems, you know, you know, systems are gold mine, right? So you got proven system, proven culture, you know. So for me, it was truly the right place and right time. If it would have been somewhere else, or broken culture, not good enough systems, um, environments, it's not conducive to championship environments I was used to. Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't have worked out, you know. But I was in the right mind of, you know, I, I gotta, I gotta do something.

Yeah, most don't have that thought process going in. I try to— yeah, I had, I had my first kid on the way at 16, so I, I pretended to play sports until that, but I didn't have the locker room experience you had. But I know enough about sports to try to relate, so I'd love to hear your perspective on it, how you used it, because you were high level. I was like, you know, I played flag football till I was 35, and that was about it. But like, people's mindset towards this game, dude, of like you know what I mean, the way you approach it. You— and you've done this enough to see that most, most agents approach this thing like they're trying to roll out of bed and play church league softball once, once a month or something.

Don't work, you know. Yeah, you want to be a professional and make professional income, you got to treat this thing as such. So I flirted with the opportunity for about 2 months, but once I came to the realization that I can make this my NFL that's when I was all in, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, all I did was I did like a T-chart and I said, this opportunity, NFL over here, which one had more positives? And it, you know, it was a no-brainer. So, um, I would say, you know, when you're comparing and contrasting, um, you, you got to treat it the same way. So think about this, right? A professional athlete, if we're speaking football, they're— they'll play on Sundays, right? And guess what? Throughout the rest of the week, they're prepping, recovering, they're doing something that revolves around, at the end of the day, their job. And I remember when I started, it was actually unorthodox to work on Sundays. I had never worked on a Sunday before. It was always Monday through Friday. I remember one of my mentors, you know, making a statement I'll never forget. He said, why should I have a problem uh, you know, doing what I love to do, getting paid. And, and I have a problem when individuals are playing on a Sunday, they're doing what they're— they got to do, they love it, they're getting paid, they're sacrificing. So what's the issue with me sacrificing? Yeah, and making that same type of sacrifice. So it does— it did come with a lot of sacrifice when I started. We were working 7 days a week. We actually came in the office on Sunday, so I'm happy it happened that way because if I would have came in, in a more of a 9 to 5, Monday through Friday, that is just— you can't— listen, if you want to get paid top level, you have to do top level things. So there's a certain sacrifice that comes with that. You gotta get— you have to work. I believe in working half days. It's real simple. Work half days. It's 24 hours in a day, you got to work at least 12 of them.

I'm talking my language now.

You, you do if you want. I agree, you know. So, um, you gotta sacrifice. You have to come in and be the best student that you can be and earn your spot. Don't think that you're going to come in and have things handed to you regardless of what you've done prior to, especially when you're walking into an environment that's already proven to have had massive success before you. So, you know, for me, that transition was very similar to sports where I'm in this locker room. I'll never forget the first time we did a review preview. That's what we called it. And we're reviewing our presentation outcome, but we're also utilizing film. So think about this, you know, when you're an athlete and you're used to reviewing film, of, of your practices and opponents you're going to play against. When you're doing this in a business setting, you know, I started to correlate, man, we review film, we have huddles like we would. Yeah, the team, you know, we have meetings where we're recapping the outcome of the game, you know, we're getting fired up before this new week, which is this new opponent that we're going up against. I mean, the whole nine yards. Even doing presentations or even making phone calls, I trick my mind to treat it like I was literally on a football field and I'm going up against a cornerback because I played wide receiver. And it's me versus you. You're trying to stop me from running my route and allowing for me to catch the ball. So I treated the phone call the same way. I'm not going to let you like not set this appointment with me. I'm not going to let you not buy what you told me you want to buy. Like, hey, guess what? This is what we came here to do. This is what we're going to get done. And, you know, I think it's, it's just for an athlete, you can trick your mind into, you know, treating things the same way. Um, you all automatically have that competitive nature in you where you want to compete. So for me, it was easy to come in and, and look at who's the number one person. I'll never forget my first meeting. I'm listening to the number one producer for the week, and I'm not just listening to him, I'm like studying. I'm studying everything. And he had on a backpack that day, and I was just looking at him like, there's no way this dude's better than me, you know? And that's— and I think, yeah, for an athlete, you have a certain confidence in yourself. You're not arrogant, but you're confident. If you're not confident, don't step on that field because you're gonna get your head knocked off your shoulders, right? So there's so much that you can correlate and equate to how it applies, especially in this business. Um, but for me, I was already around individuals who had athletic backgrounds. Like, my mentor, he played college football. So I just literally, man, just tried to be a good student and not try and reinvent the wheel. I was dumb enough to listen and smart enough to implement. But yeah, John, I got a call later and I'm gonna show some of them this piece of paper. I don't know if you can see it.

A little glare. I can— I get the gist. I can— I can see some writing. I can't read it, but I see it.

I fell asleep at my mother's house, you know, when I was 23, trying to figure out what's my vision, what am I going to do with this? Because if I'm gonna treat this like the NFL, what am I trying to accomplish here, you know? And yeah, when you come into this opportunity where they're— listen, there's no limits. The only limits are the ones that you place in yourself. You have to have a vision, but there's going to be times when you might not want to do certain things. So I would say, you know, when you have that athletic background, there was definitely times when I didn't want to watch film, times when I didn't want to go to certain meetings, whether it was like, you know, special team meetings and just things that you just— it's necessary. I always liked the lifting part, so I wasn't the athlete that did not enjoy working out. Um, but yeah, man, I mean, all those things apply. There's not one thing that I believe as an athlete is not transferable into this, you know. So it's not just football, like basketball, everything, you know. But it does, it does prepare you for life for sure.

It's funny, people understand all that stuff when athletes say it, and they understand it. Like, even I use a lot of analogies with kids You know, I mean, Maddox is 13 playing baseball, and I try to relate a lot of what he has to do to get better at baseball, like people getting better at this. And everyone understands it, but so few people are willing to put in the work. But they know another application, even if they have not been the athlete, they know in other applications the amount of work it takes to be great at something else. And then they kind of wing it.

And most people, we get— most people wing it, you know. Um, and the beauty of, you know, when you're in a leadership position is being able to show people how to go from winging it to have— having a structure. Yeah, having a vision with goals and an action plan. But the cool thing about it all, when you have responsibility of other people's success, is, hey, listen, this is what you told me you're trying to do, um, and there's no negotiation here, buddy. Yeah, committed to doing what I got to do to help you accomplish your goals. Are you still committed? Because I remember sitting down having this conversation. I have this piece of paper here if you want me to remind you. And, uh, this is what you told me you want, so, uh, let's get after it. I mean, that's, that's—

I can tell right there you know what you're doing. Yeah, most people, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it is— that's also sales. It is people to verbalize, and then you just hold them accountable to the things they said.

Yeah, and, and it's so cool when you help somebody get over that lack of self-accountability, and now that they are holding themselves accountable feel you have something to do with their success. And, you know, it's— it, man, financial services is, is one of the most beautiful careers. I mean, it's the most lucrative, lucrative career. But, um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's all of that. All of it.

So what, what made you hang it up? What's, what's the focus now? Like, what, what was the transition?

So I hate that word, although, um, I'll use it.

We'll edit it and make a better word if you want. Why do you— why do you hate it? I'm curious because I asked it from an ignorant standpoint. I know nothing.

Well, here's the thing, here's the thing, um, all good things must come to an end.

That's okay, I love it. Yeah, amen.

Like, there's— you can't do something forever. Like, there's an end to our life, um, and you know, when you start to look at your life, you start to look at, okay, my time is dedicated towards X, Y, and Z. Okay, and I produce a certain type of outcome. And whether people are happy with the outcome they produce from the work and labors that they do, that's one thing. But for me, I had a vision of— I literally wanted to retire at 40.

That's dope.

So over the course of my 14+ years, I had a productive enough career where I produced a lot of premium, and I— it wasn't just quantity, it was quality. Because if you don't have quality business, you ain't going nowhere. So, um, outside of that, I also had this vision of I want to be able to be involved as much as I can in the— like, the, the first 7 years of your child's life are the most formidable years, and I think it's primarily more of the, the mom's role. Um, to get them brought up and developed and raised up. Then after that, uh, once they start to get to that teenage— that dad needs to be present. Now, having a girl, listen, I have to raise her right, and I gotta—

everybody—

guard her and all that stuff. But, you know, I'll never forget when I was going through my career in athletics from high school through college, you know, I remember just not having the support of my mother being able to be there, of, you know, whether it was a game or just— just, man, I just wish that I could have had that support. And then the two times that my mother was able to be present, she was a cosmetologist, so she was always working, you know, and we didn't have the money, so she had to figure it out, right? Single parent, man. She worked her butt off to provide and take care of us and didn't have you know, great support. So that was my circumstance, and I wouldn't change it, you know, but I just, I'll never forget what it felt like, you know, when I was at the national championship my senior year in college, ended up being a national champion, All-American, and I look around in the stadium, I don't have no family there, you know, that hurts.

Yeah.

You know, and I forgive, but I told myself, I want to be able to have control of my time. And being present for my kids when they need me the most, you know. So have an opportunity where you're being made an offer that you can't refuse, where I'm able to receive residual income, um, that's nice. And, uh, you know, being able to, you know, transition in a way so that the people who you put time and energy into, that we all a family, um, they're not left in bad hands, you know. So it was just— it was— it was time, personally. But, um, you know, people ask me all the time, do you miss it? You definitely miss serving people where you know that you're making that immediate impact, like today, this week. And, and the report card is when people are making more money and achieving their goals. Um, it's different compared to coaching athletics where it's going to take 4 years or more to get this individual this full ride that they're looking for and working hard for. Um, so it's not the same, but you know, I just— I wouldn't trade it, man. I want to be able to give my daughter everything that she needs in order to achieve. And not just her, there's other kids I'm as invested into helping them achieve their goals, but I'm responsible for my daughter no matter what.

Yeah, that's badass though, dude.

Community, man. I mean, it's— yeah, you can't really do that in many other industries, you know.

So no, I agree, that's, that's killer to be able to provide. And she'll obviously see it along the way, but like, as she grows, the value of that will be— that's worth more than you could make, clearly, right?

The time that you're able to spend, um, yeah, you know, You only got one shot to raise your child up the right way. And, uh, to me, that's more important than— there's no amount of money I can make that can replace how important that is to me personally.

So I love it, dude.

It was just right place, right time, right situation, circumstance.

It's part of your journey, that right, that piece. And again, I always say that to people all the time. I won't do what I do today— if I do what I do today forever, I mess something up. You know what I mean? And I, I think it is a good, good outlook to have. It's like the journey does change and it's okay.

Um, but look at it this way too. I feel like in financial services, um, it's very similar to sports as far as your ability to earn at that level. Think about athletics. I remember when, uh, Drew Brees retired. He was one of my favorite quarterbacks. Yeah, people were questioning, you rated retire, you know. He— it was— he had other plans of things that he wanted to do. I mean, think about LeBron James. Let's use him as another example. Um, he's been at it for a while. The reason he's been able to do it is because he's taken care of himself.

Yeah, you know.

But he also came in with a vision of what he wants to do in his career, and he's not going to stop until it happens, right?

Yep.

And, you know, so everybody has a different journey of their vision of when they want to quote unquote hang it up. Yeah, but I just feel like, you know, in our industry there should be the same type of respect for someone who's retiring, just like we'll give a professional athlete. Because here's the thing, we are serving people to the highest degree, whether it's the consumer, helping them protect things that they work so hard for that they need to protect or these individuals that we bring into this business and we serve them to a degree where their life has changed, we deserve every penny we get and the respect that comes along with it. We're giving the respect to these athletes, how come we don't get the same level of respect, you know? So that's probably why I feel that way.

I love it though, dude. It's a good perspective. I never looked at it that way quite, you know, at— for sure. But I like it and I understand what you're saying.

The only thing different is we have more control. We're not gonna walk away with CTE.

Yeah, yeah, buddy.

We can sleep in our own beds. Uh, I mean, well, I mean, there's a few other things I can outline too.

It's been good for you, I can tell, right? I was gonna, I was gonna ask you about your song, The You Can Do It. But I see it, and I figured out it's a book. Yep, I put two and two together. Tell me more.

I really, uh, released it, um, this year, and I always wanted to write a book. Um, yeah, primarily because I had a lot of people who would, you know, try and encourage me to write. But, you know, until you actually have the time and you sit down and you start to put things on paper you know, you're not going to do it. So when I retired, that's when I started to write it. And I just thought about, you know, if I left something to this world, what would I want it to be? And for me, it was simple, you know, thinking about that little boy that was 9 years old, sitting on those church steps, trying to figure out 'How am I going to get out of here?' And, you know, not being able to go to my own individual dwelling space and have a father figure, like, showing me the ropes of what I can do in life, right? Now listen, nothing against any of my stepfathers or even my father who I thought was my biological dad, because John, check this out, at 35— and I write about this in my book— I found out at 35 who I thought was my biological dad. It's not the bye-bye with that. So it was— imagine getting that news, right? So, um, I learned what not to do more than what to do. But, you know, over, over the journey, you know, you, you look at your life and there are so many people who just— they might not know the way to or how to, but they might be willing to do certain things.

Yeah.

I just think that, you know, if you can encourage someone, and for me, I just want to impact one, one individual, whether it's a little boy growing up how I grew up, or someone else. My book applies to people from all walks of life, but just to encourage somebody that you, you can do it. And it's a memoir, but I really write about the journeys of things that I went through in my life to encourage somebody else that Man, listen, ignore the things that people say that trying to encourage you or convince and motivate you to believe that you can't do something. You can do it. You just got to be willing to do what it takes, you know. And regardless of the cards that you're dealt, you know, you can get through the circumstances. And I was fortunate though, I had God put some amazing people in my life that helped me go from one destination to the next and You know, don't take for granted those situations because God will put good people in your life. You got to accept it. And, uh, you know, you can do it though. Whatever you're trying to do, you can do it. And my mother kind of beat that into my head to get me to believe that I can do it. She really did.

Most people struggle with that, dude. When I just got off a coaching call a minute ago and one of the guys was like, you know, like, when you're— when I'm out here by myself and you know what I mean? I'm like, oh, for whatever, and I'm not making the sales. Like, bro, what do I— how do you handle that? And I'm like, dude, I was given something that I just— I've believed since I was a little kid that like, if James can do it, I can do it. Now, athletic, God-given talent, maybe I don't get that, but if it's like I can work and achieve it, I can do A, B, and C and achieve it, I can build to it, like, I just believe it. But not everybody has that, dude. So I'm super intrigued to hear your, your story on it and, and read it. Um, you have a preference on where people get it?

The best place to get is on Amazon.

Cool.

I did self-publishing and, um, going back, I'm like, man, so I got a lot of— you wrote a book too, I see. I gotta get a copy of yours.

Um, I'll get you one sent out today, bro.

I got it. Same, same. Um, but, but the journey of writing, self-publishing, oh man, it takes a lot of work. Um, but I would say the best place you can get it on Amazon, Barnes Noble. I mean, it's all those.

Cool.

Yeah.

Um, but if you're in sales and you're trying to figure out how to get effing paid and stop getting so many objections, register now for my 2-day workshop here in Atlanta, Georgia, February 27th, 28th. We're gonna have some special guest speakers. There's an exclusive mastermind for VIP ticket holders. For those that just want to attend the event, you can. There's a very low entry to get into it. We'll be going over everything you need for sales, objections, scripts, role-playing, everything you need to build a business, scale a business, staffing, automations, everything I've learned in the last decade plus building what I've built. Of course, we've had a lot of help, so we'll be going over How to scale it, how to structure it, everything you need to get to the next level. Click on the link, register below. We'll see you there.

Well, yeah, I mean, we just— it just takes sometimes just hearing someone else's story. Like, everyone has a story. We all have this thing that we have we call life, and we're just trying to figure it out. And, you know, your story is going to inspire somebody else to believe that wherever they're at, they can do it. And, you know, there were times in my life where I'm like, man, 'Should I jump off this bridge? Because I don't know.' But all that— you have people in your life that, that keep pushing you. And, uh, you know, you can do it. You, you really can do it. So you just got to be willing to— whatever that looks like, you got to ask yourself, are you willing to do what it takes? And if you're willing to do what it takes, you have the, the, the help necessary. Someone's going to teach and train you and show you the way. You better be dumb enough to listen, smart enough to implement. You got two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen more than you're talking. And, you know, um, sacrifice the things that need to be sacrificed— the time, the goofy stuff that won't matter 10, 5 years from now, you know. And good things will happen for people, you know. I just think that people just need to be encouraged in some way, shape, or form that you can do it.

Yeah. How do you, um, it's funny, my, my best mentor, man, used to always do the two ears, one mouth thing all the time. And the other thing, he was an athlete too, he played at Auburn, okay, uh, baseball at Auburn. And, uh, he used to always— you said your version of it, but he used to always tell me, if you want to get paid like a professional, you better act like a professional. And he would always use— again, he's a big— obviously playing baseball at Auburn, he was a He was a high-level athlete too. And it's funny, the correlations to some of the stuff you're saying. I'm like, I like this cat. You remind me a lot of Mike. Who?

Mike?

What's it? Mike Killamette. Yeah, he, um, what I do— I ain't here without him.

I just—

it's one of those things, you cross paths, right person, right time, right? You know what I mean? Gabe, just— I needed someone at that time, you know? And it's just, it's funny hearing you say things. It reminds me, I'm like damn, I gotta— and saying he retired, he's like, I'm doing— I'm going on bigger and better things in life. And, um, but yeah, a lot of similarities, dude. Um, what is your— what— I'm curious, what do you think about— people ask me a lot, they want to achieve big things in life, and I always struggle answering it. So I'm curious how you handle it given your half day. I'm definitely using that half day thing, the half a work day. I love it, bro.

It sounds cool though, right?

It sounds dope.

4 hours.

Yeah, I will. I'm telling you, my next talk, bro, I'll be like, yo, I was taught— you got— I, I was talking to this dude, he taught me I can get— I can kill it with half days. Who wants half days?

Everybody, what am I gonna do in that time, right?

Yeah, it is.

You got to spend that time on what's going to generate you the most revenue and return of investment of your time. Yeah, you know, so depending upon where I'm at, let's say I'm just a producer. Yeah, all I gotta do is make calls and do presentations.

That's it, bro.

No, but then you can get smart with your time and you can actually multiply your time and you can hire setters to set appointments for you. You're just doing presentations. That's how you optimize and, you know, scale, you know. And leadership, I mean, I mean, it's so— it's deep, you know. But you— what's the actual question though?

Yeah, I wanted to know, people ask me about balance a lot. One of those sayings I hate, which you said it in the proper way, but some people like when they're broke and I talk to them about doing a lot of— I'm an activity guy. High activity, reps. We'll worry about all the skill set stuff as it comes. Like, I can't have that right now. We're just gonna reps. And the most— the people that hate my stuff are very much the work smarter, not harder crew, right? Even though they might not be where— and they're not saying it in the way you said it, right? But almost everyone, when I talk about activity and the things I had to do to accomplish from my journey, right? People are like, what about balance? What about balance? So I'm, I'm just shit curious, man.

This is how I feel about balance, right? I would say I'm— when you look at the dichotomy of this way or that way, I'm more in the middle because I can understand and see both, both ends of the spectrum. Yeah, but you know, like, how I feel about balance, like, balance is something you earn.

Yeah, buddy.

You don't just automatically have it. And so if you're looking at how do I balance things for myself, well, the only reason why you're imbalanced is because you don't take care of yourself the right way. And the things that you're taking on and you're trying to do, you can't handle because you're not pouring into yourself well enough. So you're going to feel imbalanced, um, when it comes to balancing other responsibilities, whether it's family, for for example. I don't— I— you can't separate what you're doing from your family. You have to blend it. So I don't believe in, like, you know, segregation of my family. My family, my— yeah, this benefits you, so why am I gonna, like, segregate, you know, this thing that I'm doing over here that's providing for our family? And in, in, in, in families, no, we're blending this stuff. So we're not going to just look at just trying like balance this, balance that. We're gonna, we're gonna take care of what needs to be taken care of. We're not going to shortcut things. We're going to do what's necessary. I always used to tell my people that the price is what the price is, and there is no negotiation. So depending upon the individual and their vision that they have, their goals, then the only question that comes after that is Is your action plan good enough to make your goals become a reality so your vision will come true? And, you know, some people do truly struggle with doing the work day in and day out. But I think, I think if, um, a good majority, a good portion of those individuals who do struggle, if they actually knew the way to do it productively instead of spinning their wheels, because a lot of people are being unproductive. I mean, you can work, you can work half days and not get nothing done, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

So, you know, there's a combination of— and that's why I say I'm like in the middle of the economy-wise— it's a combination of like, you know, individuals either taking initiative to get the answers that they need for the equation for what they're trying to accomplish, um, or they go out and find somebody that's going to show them the way. And if you're serious about something, you'll do the work. You do the work. Some people just don't know the, the best way to, but the price is what the price is. There is no negotiation price. You can negotiate. Yeah, this is— I mean, listen, yeah, negotiate things like this watch. Hey man, I'm not trying to spend this, but guess what, the price is what the price is. What it is, you know. So I just, I don't, I don't, I don't like the word balance, um, because I think people, they, they try and get out of doing what needs to be done and taking care of what needs to be taken care of. So if you do what you have to do and pouring into yourself, you won't struggle with the whole balance thing. It, it won't be a struggle. Because you fill your cup up, you have— you got a— like, if I have 2 cups over here, I don't have one, but I got this water bottle.

We got it. We, we'll put one— we'll put a fake one up now. You know what I got you?

Don't do— a lot of people refuse to fill their cup up. They wake up 100%, they don't take care of their spirit, mind, and body. So, you know, they're encountering things throughout the day and they got whether it's their own responsibilities or responsibilities for others, and that cup is not full enough. So man, this stuff becomes stressful over time. You feel like, man, like I'm just all over the place. Well, get this right first, and, uh, all that stuff over there is going to be okay. But yeah, um, there you won't really feel like I need to balance this. You're going to be balanced when you take care of you. And then you got to blend your family and whatever else into the equation of what you're doing, because if those parties are benefiting from what you're sacrificing and working towards, you can't segregate that. You have to bring that together. Um, and it definitely helps when you have a— like, especially in this industry, and it requires a lot of work, blood, sweat, and tears— when your significant other understands what it takes, because then they can be your cheerleader versus instead of being on your back, they can just have your back. A lot of times, you know, people struggle with— and this is where the whole, I'm having a lack of balance with this, that— they struggle with the support system the way that it could be, because they don't include them into the equation of them understanding what's in it for them. You know, what things are going to look like down the road. So I think if the individual just approaches it the right way and not neglect themselves, it's easier to manage everything else that comes along with the equation, you know. So that's how I see it.

I love it, dude. It was badass. I love the answer. How do, um, if you want people to find you, where should they go? We'll put some links and stuff here, but I'll let you share it if you'd like to. You can.

I'm on Instagram, JC the T-H-A, the number 3-R-D, JC the Third. Um, Facebook, Instagram, uh, James Cunningham on Facebook. LinkedIn, James Cunningham on, on X. It's so hard to say X when it's Twitter.

Yeah. Oh yes, JC, that's like saying Meta when it's Facebook.

Right, right.

It's like, nah, I'm on all platforms.

I'm not on TikTok though, man. It's so— I'm not— I don't have time to try and manage all these social media things. It'll be different if I was like still in, in the, in, in the deal, uh, sure, where you utilize every freaking platform out there to find good talent, you know. But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm not on TikTok with that, dude.

Hey, man.

It's deep.

That's what it is. Get it, get the book. I'm gonna check it out for sure.

Gotcha.

And, uh, any— anything, final words you want to leave people with? Anything we didn't cover that you'd like to put out? Please do.

I would just tell people, man, at the end of the day, you know, if you take anything from this, just make sure you have a vision for your life. Make sure you have that vision. Don't think small, think big. You know, you're talking to two individuals who grew up in the projects in different parts of this country And, um, you know, a lot of people would love to trade places, but here's the thing: you got to be willing to do the work. And if you have a vision for your life, I mean, you can establish some goals to make that become a reality, but have that action plan right next to it. Be willing to do the work. Do not try and shortcut anything. You have to pay the price, whatever that price is that is required for the things you want to do in your life. Do it. Don't neglect yourself. Take care of your spirit, your mind, and your body. So when you take that— the vision, goals, and action plan, spirit, mind, and body— you put that together, great things happen. And I think that's the formula for winning. You know, I got on my license plate, it says RWTW, Roll With The Winners. And if you want to roll with the winners, you got to do those things in life. So I want to end with that.

Roll with the winners.

Yes, sir.

A fan. That's sick. I love it, dude. Well, I've had a blast, dude. I, um, I I do a lot of these and this one, this one was easy and fun.

Appreciate it.

So, uh, we'll have to touch base offline and connect, uh, because obviously we don't know each other well at all. I would love to learn some more here, here's some more offline, dude. So let's connect for sure. Yeah, I'll shoot you a DM, I'll send you my cell and, uh, would love to catch up. Appreciate you jumping on, dude, and appreciate you, uh, giving your time to us and everybody. And enjoy your family. I like that.

I appreciate it.

Talk to you.