This Telesales Phone Script Made Me $30,000 Per Month ft. John Clayton | Ep32

So when I left that conference, I looked at my wife, I said, babe, what do you think about that conference? She said, it's real nice. I said, great, because I'm gonna quit my job. How you doing, John?

I love it, man.

I'm doing good.

I could listen to you talk forever, just so you know. Yeah, love the accent, and you're funny as hell and informative and know your stuff.

Appreciate it. I appreciate it. It's a Southern drawl when I tell people. Good old Mississippi.

You got, you got it heavy too.

I love it.

I love it. You're still there, right? That's where you still live?

No, I live in Memphis now.

Okay.

Okay. Yeah, I left Mississippi back in 1999, so—

got it.

Yeah, it's been a while.

Dang. I had— so I grew up in Boston, but I've been in the South for 20 years, and they took my Boston accent away. You hear some words every now and again, but Yeah, you know, when I go, when I go home, all they hear is Southern, and in the South they know I ain't from the South too, and it's, it's confusing for everybody, man.

Imagine having that Mississippi accent and Louisiana, because that's what I have. It's a combination.

I love it. Well, John is a, uh, a beast, um, come from a, I guess, corporate world background, similar to me in a sense, uh, working for people for a while, got into the insurance industry um, now with Symmetry, run your own agency, sell a bunch of insurance, and certainly watch you teaching a lot of people, building your brand out, speaking at events, doing lots of big things. So yeah, I'd love for you to kind of start sharing some of the— certainly the journey. Um, but ultimately, I do, I do want to help people learn like actual nuts and bolts about selling. I love to give people takeaways that they can actually implement, so we'll get into that. But yeah, just for you know, the story part, if you don't mind giving a little background how you got into insurance. And actually, I don't even know the full story. I know some of it, but I don't know the full thing.

Yeah, absolutely. So as you know, I'm from Mississippi. This is my 4th state in my 9th city, uh, just trying to relocate. I came from retail as a manager, and if anybody ever worked in retail, relocation is the way to kind of climb the corporate ladder. So yeah, yeah, y'all gotta be willing to relocate every year, every 2 years. So I became like a nomad, like every 2 years I'm in a different city in a different state. Um, but since 2008— not 2010— I'd have been in Memphis. Uh, my last thing was with AT&T as one of their managers. So how I made a transition from corporate America over to insurance I'm just tired. As I mentioned before, you know, I never had a place I called home. I kept relocating. And then once I got married and I started having children, I'm like, you know what, by the time my son goes to kindergarten, I will no longer be working for anyone else. Uh, I didn't know what type of business I want to get into, but I just knew at that time, like, I'm done relocating. I'm done trying to work, you know, 50 hours a week. Overworking and being underpaid. I needed a way out, and insurance just kind of fell into my lap. Um, a young man came to my store one day. It was back in, I would say, 2015, maybe, uh, '16. Uh, he comes out of the store, he's upset. He's trying to buy a cell phone. To make a long story short, I started helping him because as a manager, you don't get, uh, I would call it willing to recommend surveys. As an employee, you do. So I saw he was already, you know, obsessed. Let me help him. I will help this guy. So once I helped him, I started asking questions, you know, because I saw you had a discount with AT&T. It was in real estate. I said, hey, um, I'm looking for a career change. Do they pay well in commercial real estate? He said, nah. They don't make no money. I said, okay. So I kept on helping them out. So I just started asking more questions. I said, hey, so who you buying this phone for? He says, uh, my daughter. I'm like, cool. Uh, well, how many kids you have? So I got 4. I said, man, that's cool, man. I only have 1, but I would like to have more. I said, what about your wife? What does she do for a living? He said, she doesn't work. I said, wait a minute. You mean to tell me you have 4 kids and your wife do not work and you're not making any money in commercial real estate? I just don't believe you. He said, no, seriously, uh, I don't do commercial real estate anymore. I do insurance. He was working for Aflac, but he had the discount for commercial real estate. He said, don't change my discount. I'm not gonna change that. I said, okay. I said, insurance, man, whatever. And he left and I never pursued it. It was, uh, about 3 years later, insurance came back around to me and I said, you know what, opportunities do not knock twice. I need to look into this. And then I kind of, uh, that's how I got to insurance. No, I had a young lady working with me at AT&T and she was working with Prime America. And she introduced me to insurance, uh, and I got my insurance license through that company. And then I pivot to Signature Financial Group.

Yeah, got it. Yeah, call them, call on the list versus leads, right?

Absolutely. You know, and I'll tell everybody, you know, um, I know a lot of people doing well with that company.

So same.

Yeah, it's okay. It was different.

They all work. They all work. Yeah, it's just what do you like doing.

Absolutely. Success is universal. What I tell people, it's all the same, you know, it just what kind of fits you and your core value that kind of resonates with you as an individual. Yeah, they all work. Makes sense.

So did you jump from corporate to this full-time? Did you transition? Did you, or did you just— how, how'd that go?

So end up happening, uh, so I go get my license through Prime America my resume was going out to everybody, you know, through the computer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, my, my mentor Jason Hayes, he found my resume. He was working with Symmetry Financial Group. Uh, he passed away unfortunately now, but he, he calls me and I was driving to AT&T. He said, yeah, I just got your resume, came do an interview. I'm like, okay, let's talk about it. Send him a couple, a couple of videos. It went well. The second interview You know, it was going well as well. He said, if you're really serious about this, John, I need you to come to our conference. So I said, okay, well, when is the conference? He said, next week. So that's a short notice. I said, okay, you know I live in Memphis, right? So is it Nashville? You know, where it's gonna be at? He says, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Yeah, buddy.

I said, you want me to drive 13 hours on a 5-day notice to go to a conference? I don't even know you. And he says, well, you could fly. So I said, you got jokes. But he said something that kind of, you know, sparked my interest. He said, you've been on this phone with me for 20 minutes complaining about things that's not going well with the company and how you just stagnant and hit your pinnacle. Yeah. And you know what they have to offer you. Why don't you come and see what we got to offer you? Then that way you can have an educated decision if you want to do this or not. That made sense to me. So my wife and I, we drove, we drove there, and, uh, I went to the conference and I fell in love with what I heard because I heard people talking about making an impact and not making income, although they were making a lot of money, but it was not their focal point. Yeah. Second, there's— I saw ordinary people just like me That was not 6'4", you know, muscular men or women. They were just ordinary people making an extraordinary lifestyle for themselves. That resonated. So when I left that conference, driving back on a Sunday, I looked at my wife. I said, babe, what do you think about that conference? She said, it's real nice. I said, great, because I'm gonna quit my job. I'm going right into it, full throttle. I gave them a 30-day notice, uh, and then I just been doing this.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Did, did insurance sales work perfectly at the beginning for you? Did you struggle? How— what was that like?

Oh man, it's— that was a challenge, like, like all things. So the first, you know, 3 or 4 months, I'm doing well. I'm not, I'm not the top producer with the company, but I have replaced my income. And that was my main, my main focus, replace my income. And then I started building my own business at the same time. So I started day one, um, right away, right away. Now what happened, I started hiring the wrong people. So around about the 8th month inside the business, I accrue about $17,000 worth of chargebacks from the agency. I didn't know anything about the business. I didn't know. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know chargeback rolled up to me, right? Because I'm thinking I had to get $17,000 worth of overrides, I'm gonna get $17,000 worth of chargebacks. That's what I'm thinking. So I had to go back to AT&T, I had to work with them full-time because I say if I could work for them full-time, I could pay my mortgage. And I also had to work Symmetry full-time as well. So when I got off work, yeah, I would change my clothes And, uh, I just, you know, do simple, pout those chargebacks, and then I was done. 9 months within that company, and I never went back. So yeah, it was ups and downs, uh, success, failure, smiles, cries, you know, stumbling back over, celebrating, the whole— did you— motion roller coaster.

Yeah. What'd you learn that you done— that you— that you messed up? Like, what'd you do looking back on it, right? Because it's like, people always get funny, man. They're like, ah, a roll-up, I didn't see it coming. I'm like, only way you didn't see it coming because you didn't look at shit. Yeah, you just did your business like this because they send 475 emails and 27 letters. And you know what I mean? So again, like, like, looking back, what do you think the mistakes were that, that you made?

So one, um, knowing who I'm looking for, who I want to work with, that's the first thing. I didn't have any criteria about that. I was just excited. I was gone ho.

You're breathing.

Is you breathing? Come join me.

All right.

I was just killing my agency and killing my brand.

Yeah.

Uh, two, well, what I started learning as well is that if you are working your business, you need to create a way— well, I tell people now, if you got, uh, you write 5 applications a week, create a system so then once chargeback happens, you're not in a hole. You have a separate savings account or a separate checking account designed for chargebacks and designed for taxes. So that's why I tell old John now, yeah, create a business. Don't spend all your money because back then if I make $1,000, you know, uh, commission, I'm spending $950, you know, 100%. That's the way it was back then and I didn't understand the business. I understood the sales but not the business aspect of it.

Yeah, I see a mistake, dude, a lot of agents make. One thing I did well, only because I'm like— and it wasn't on purpose, I didn't think it through, I just got lucky. Um, and I'm— I wasn't accounting, you know. Um, I think that what I see a lot of agents mess up, even agents have been around for a long time, dude. And every time I talk about this, I get a ton of messages that people are like, I didn't think of that. Just You know how many people, their deposits go into their same account they pay their bills from? I'm like, what? Yeah, you mean you don't send your insurance money separate? Like, the insurance money should go over here. Like Chick-fil-A, when they sell a chicken sandwich, it don't go into the account where the dude pays his bills. Absolutely. It goes into a business, business account. It don't need to be a formal business account, just be a separate account. Absolutely. You know, and depositing your money there and then paying for the leads or whatever expenses you got, you know, business expenses first, and then what's left I paid myself a salary weekly as long as there was money left, right? Whereas most people deposit the money into their personal account, they pay their bills, and if there's anything left they send it to their business expenses. I'm like, no, you got it backwards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was one of those people. Yeah, that was me in the beginning, you know. Yeah, I had to learn, and as I talked about that earlier today with a couple of agents. Um, if you are writing 5 applications a week, I tell people that that first application or that first commission check, that's not a profit. No, you put that back to your business.

Yeah.

All right. Uh, maybe that second and third application that you write, you know, like, start paying maybe your mortgage or your car notes, whatever the case may be. That, that fourth policy you write, set that aside for taxes or chargebacks. and then a fifth policy. If you write that fifth policy, you got money left over, then you pay yourself.

Yeah.

And if you do that 4 times a week, yeah, you got a nice little nest egg. I had to learn that.

I remember, I remember having a setup where I had to auto-transfer to a separate account to save up for taxes because the first year I got the bill, I was like, oh, interesting. All right, yeah, I guess I should, I should expect this every year. And then it, then it became when taxes came in, I already— I, I saved too much. I'm like, oh, I pay the taxes, I get, I got leftover.

Yeah, you know, that's a good problem to have.

That was better. Yeah, that was way better.

That was better. And I think the problem with, with a lot of, uh, insurance agents, they're just not too many people teaching that side of the business in the beginning. Now we may be teaching how to write policies or how to help customers, But the, the, uh, the admin side of it, the structure, you know, I didn't learn that to round by year 2, to be honest with you.

That's crazy to me. Yeah, I was taught that stuff early, dude. You know, now I make sure— obviously you do too, you know, I mean, when you start working with agents, like, all right, we got to set up the basics first. Yeah, you know, and I'm all about selling policies. I'm, I'm big on you don't have to know everything before you go to work. I'm all about that too. But it's like, it's so easy to set up the basics. Yeah, and be transparent about it. And it's like, why are we pretending clients aren't going to cancel?

Absolutely.

Yeah. Like, what are we doing?

It's going to happen. I don't care how great of a salesperson you are. Yeah, it's going to happen.

It's just nature, especially when you're new.

Yeah, yeah.

Now it does get better. You got that, you got that diamonds on that ring I keep flashing, see flashing. You're out in your pool house doing it, which they don't know that. I know this because we were offline talking. Yeah, in the pool house doing a podcast. You know, life is good.

Yeah.

How do, um, how do you advise agents make this sucker better, dude? Give them some sales stuff that's helped you out there.

And what's the question again? How to make sales stuff?

Yeah. How do you— meaning what, what advice can you give to people that you learned to be able to afford the lifestyle you have today and not have to go back to the job and pay for all the stuff you, you know what I mean? Like take care of your family the way you want to. You live a good life, dude. Absolutely.

You know, well, but the first one, what do you think is important? Yeah, go for it.

So many of you have asked if there's an option for more access, more direct coaching. And so we've created a coaching platform called the Winner's Circle where you have a couple different options. There is a one-on-one option to where we can work directly with you on a regular basis. And then there's a small group setting, 4 to 6 people, really high achievers looking to get to just a new level in their career. We've had a ton of success in this already. First month, actually the first guy that joined deposited $7,500, worked with them back and forth one-on-one. The very next month he deposited over 30 grand. So basically a 5x return on his income in 30 days. So if you're looking for something like that, you can click on the link below, get access to an application because I'm not taking everybody. I do wanna make sure it's a good fit for both of us. And if we feel like you'd be a good fit, we'll set up a one-on-one call directly with me, um, and kind of go through your struggles, what you need help with, and what I expect of people that are joining the coaching program. So if you feel like it'd be a good fit for you and something you want more of, click the link below and we'll see you on the other side. Welcome to the winner's circle.

Yeah, I don't want to, you know, curse nobody out, you know, but hey, if I got to curse them out, please do. You got to work. W-O-R-K. Yeah, that's what I tell people all the time. No matter what company you with, no matter what leads you have, or you buy leads, or you choose not to, everything is work. It just depends on how you're going to work it, because it's not easy. It's not. Uh, and I give people like a simple formula when they first join the agency: don't fall in love with commission, fall in love with the process. I love Kobe Bryant and his mindset about the work ethic. So if you can make 1,000 dials your first 30 days, shoot for that. That's about 250 dials a week. And that is very low. That is low when it comes to dial count. But so many—

hey, most don't do it though.

Most don't do it. You know, that's why I want to keep it very simple. Most people can't do 250 dials, but you can do 250 dials. That's 1,000 dials, uh, a month if you do every week. It's very low, very attainable. Yeah, try to, you know, uh, not try, get 50 nos. No, go for no. That's the book says, go for no. Don't have a yes goal, go for no. Let me get 50 nos because with those 50 nos, I could write about 5 applications or 10. Once again, these are very low attainable goals. Yeah, you know, if you could do that, you just kind of off. You could make anywhere between, you know, $5,000 to $10,000 your first month, but it's gonna be difficult. Most people's afraid of the word no. It's like, boo, they, they run. They didn't throw in your family. So do that, track your business. Now, how many calls are you making a day? Uh, I remember when you and I was in Memphis and you asked that question, you know, how many— who made these dials? The people raised their hands. I made 80. You're like, in a week, man? I made 150. And they were happy with those numbers. And there was one individual, he said, hey, I made— I think we were like a, uh, it was, it was a big number, like 1,000, something like that, in 2 or 3 weeks.

Yeah. And it was like Wednesday or Thursday, whatever day of the week. It was like, it was over 1,000 4 days into the week.

Yeah. And the way the people looked at him like he was the coming Messiah. He made $1,000. He just went to work.

That's it. So, you know what's funny is what followed though, right after that, was how many applications did all y'all write? And weird, he had the most applications too.

Yeah, yeah. I think he said he was doing about $30,000 a month, you know, in commission sales. Yeah. So that's one thing I would tell people there's only a few ways you can get clients in this industry. And you want to do the old traditional way, you can door knock. I mean, feel free to do that if you want to do that. You can cold call. Yeah, you know, you can—

it beats what most do is doing nothing, you know what I mean? It's like, if you don't, if you don't have the leads, for instance, you don't have a budget, you don't— so it's like, okay, what are you doing instead of sitting at home complaining about it?

Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

If you're not prospecting through leads, prospect another way. There's a million ways to prospect.

It's a million ways. Now, it may be more challenging, but it works. The, the law of numbers always work. Yes. You know, it's just challenging. That's why I wrote it, bro. Yeah, do more now, get better later. Absolutely. You know, but yeah, just put the work in. So that'd be the first thing. Second thing I would tell agents, you know, um just start developing, start growing. Become a student of your profession. Whether you'll be doing Medicare sales, become a student. Where you're gonna be doing final expense, uh, what— whatever, become a student. Yeah, research it, associate, go to conference, okay? You can start, you know, meeting people much bigger than you. That's how I met you. My age is not where your age is at right now, but guess what? I'm picking your brain. I'm picking people's brains. I can learn, I can adopt that. Most people, they want to sit back and be the cool kid in school. When the teacher asks, hey, do anybody got a question? And you know you don't know what she's talking about, but you like, I'm cool, I got it. They gonna make an elf. Be that student that keep raising their hand. Hey, yes, I do have a question. And once you get the answer You execute it. That's the difference. You got to execute what you learn. You got to do it like Nike. So that's what I would tell people, you know. It's just that simple. Is it easy? No, but it's very simple. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you say to the guy looking for the magic leads?

I would say, once you find them, let me know as well. They're not eating. You probably get that question all the time too, John. So, so what do you do this week? How did you do that? How many times we said the same answer that that mentor says? I just got leads and I called them, and I got a lot of nos and I got some yes. I got a lot of nos, I got some yes. We're not trying to turn, you know, rocks into gold. We gotta turn over enough rocks to find that gold. It's true. Yeah.

You ever watch those gold digging shows?

I haven't.

Yeah, there, you know, do you know what I'm talking about or no?

Yeah, well, I knew about the old Gold Rush back in the day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, yep. I haven't watched it in forever, but I have watched those, and this business is very similar. I mean, they do, they, they make millions out of finding gold, essentially dust They ain't even finding like big old nuggets.

Rare.

It's rare they find— they get one that's like that, they can pick up the flake and they're excited. But for the most part, dude, they spend an obnoxious amount of money on trucks and labor and fuel and leasing land, traveling to wherever, because ain't none of them— it's like Alaska or where, Canada, wherever they go, and they literally dig through dirt and put it through this machine that sifts it out, separates the dirt from the— I guess the gold floats or sinks or whatever. I don't know which one's heavier, which one's lighter, but it's a separator. And then they, they just, they process so much dirt. Yeah, that a nominal percentage of gold comes out, but that number adds up.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so I'm here from you is that they invest first They don't do the work and they reap the reward later. And most people want to get the reward first and then do the work, and it just doesn't work like that.

I wish they would like— and they show, dude, they're working like it's about to be freezing cold out there. They're working overnight because they only— they got a window like this before the ground freezes. So they're working 36-hour shifts and stuff. Like, it's nuts, dude.

Yeah.

And then you got agents over here making $82 a week being like, this is hard.

You know, like I just tell, I'm doing a lot of construction of a home right now, and you know, the amount of work that they are doing, I said I don't envy that. You know, taking shingles on the roof, that those shingles, it weighs a lot. You know, it's hot here in Memphis, but we talk about what we do is hard. We gotta toughen up. It's not hard. I don't see it's a whole lot, man.

Are you running virtual appointments now or in-home?

Yeah, well, I do mainly, um, virtual Zoom. Uh, I like to see people. I have a lot of agents, and my agents, they do over the phone. But as I tell people, I have a Southern drawl. I need to make sure that you are, uh, resonating what I'm saying. I read body language, I read facial expressions. Uh, every now and then I, you know, go to a person's home if I want to get outside the house, and I'm like, hey, Mostly Zoom. Most of them. I'll tell you a quick story. This happened about 3 weeks ago. I had some agents saying that leads do not work. You probably heard that before. These leads do not work. And I bought some real old leads, 2 years or 3 years old lead. Got 200 leads for about $50. And these people told me no, left, right, up, down, Spanish, English, a little explicits. Like they read my rights. I didn't care. I just kept dialing and dialing. I met one customer, you know, and he says, I have been waiting for somebody to call me for 2 years. Now whether that's true or not, I don't know. However, he said, I've been waiting. I said, well, man, you know, you want to live about 20 minutes from my home, uh, I could do this over Zoom. If I come out to you, it's no big deal for me. He said, will you come out? I said, yeah, there's no worries, man. It's a Sunday. I'll come out tomorrow. He said, come, I'll be here. So of course, you know, I drive out there, and once I pull into his parking lot— I mean, his driveway— he comes out the door and greets me. I'm thankful for you, you know. I'm so thankful. I said, well, now I said, I'm saying, like, just insurance. But to him, it's a life-saving rescue mission that he just now got. So I get inside the house and I smell this good food cooking. He said, we're gonna talk to the insurance later, but my wife, she's cooking for you right now. And she's cooking fried chicken, she cooking cabbage, uh, some hot water cornbread. I'm like, for me? Yeah. Like I said, well, it's on a Sunday, I'm assuming you haven't ate, so why not? You're gonna take care of me and my family, let's take care of you. So I called my wife and said, hey baby, don't worry about cooking today. Uh, these good folks will cook for me. She's like, nah. So I took the picture and I put them on speaker. She's like, you cooking for my husband? I said, yes. If this man gonna take time out of his day on a Sunday to help me and my family, the least we can do is cook a meal. That's why we do this. I made $1,800 off that one policy. Took me about an hour. So those nos, right, that I got, it did not compare to that love from that one customer, that one family. Yeah, and that's why we do this.

Have you, have you always been okay with the nos, or did you struggle with it?

Like, uh, you know what, because I struggled, dude, at the beginning.

I, I, I, I, I couldn't handle it at the beginning either. I was one of those that would like lose their mind or like Yeah, I'd get in arguments with clients over there. It was bad. I was bad at the beginning.

I, I don't think the nos bothered me, uh, just no in general. I think over the phone it did, because once again, I came from retail. So you ever went inside a department store, we're gonna ask you, hey, do you want our department credit card? No. Yeah, I want— yeah. So face-to-face no never bothered me. Over the phone, I think the hangup What's bothering you?

Hang up bothered?

Got it. Hey, this— I'm a nice guy, call him back, you know. So the call back and the hangups, uh, challenged me the most. But the nose, not that to bother me.

Yeah, that's good. You know, it's funny, it's like at one point when I realized just after enough reps you would get enough say, like it would just work itself out, like that eventually clicked to me. That they were going to be averages. Yeah, I became pretty non-emotional about it. Yeah, um, you know, and as I explained, like, when I learned what I earned per phone call regardless if they say yes or no, that certainly changed. What I didn't necessarily see coming that I always explain to people— there's a lot of people that watch these that are like stuck. They're in the business, they make a few bucks, they pay their bills, they're not homeless, but they ain't killing it yet. They're still pretty emotional about stuff, you know what I mean? That mid-tier agent, kind of like where you had to go back to the job at that stage. And they, they— it's like they— I think they know they don't work enough, but they're afraid. Like, it's this weird figure it out stage, but they're super emotional about the no part yet, and they think eventually that goes away. And I'm like, you know, if you see more people Like, if you buy more leads, you're gonna get more nos. You know, if you sell— like, you see someone in the industry, you're like, I wish I sold as many apps as them. You know, you're going to get more people that cancel, and you're going to get more chargebacks, and you're going to get— you know what I mean? Like, you deal with more stuff.

Yeah.

So I always try to explain to people, man, if you're, if you're struggling dealing with the stuff, buckle up, because as you, as you do more, you get more stuff. And as you build an agency, you get even more stuff.

Get more.

It's like part of this is the process, like you mentioned earlier, of growing that thick skin and that ability to weirdly embrace the nose because you understand it leads you to good things, and embrace the struggles and the problems because learning to solve problems pays really well.

Yeah, yeah. It talks about, you know, the bigger your— the amount of income you make depends on how many problems you can solve.

That's true.

How many places you could spend.

Yeah.

All right, so I had to learn that too. You know, people got, um, I mean, small problems, but maybe large to them, but they really got small problems that have a, you know, a lower income. Yeah, new levels, new devils. I mean, it never goes away, it just always constantly growing, and you never make it. That's one of my pitfalls I learned in the past too. Once I made, you know, my first $150,000, I thought I made it because I never made more than $65,000. And then I got a, you know, a little over $200,000. Once again, I made it. And that's why I took my foot off the gas. Yeah, big mistake. I'll tell people because I started watching people who are making 7 figures, and I'm making high 6 figures, but I never made 7 figures, and they're outworking me. So I'm like, you know what, that's the only difference, you know. Lean in when you're in that peak. As you talk about the people who are struggling, you gotta think valleys, you know. When it's winter, think summer. And when it's summer, prepare for the winter. So you're at that peak, gotta start preparing for that valley. So that's what I would tell them. So, but you're right, it gets, you know, you become less emotional about the nose, but not gonna erase the nose. I'm gonna always be there.

Yeah, I dig it. I love it. What do you— you mentioned earlier, um, bringing the wrong people into business with you. What does that look like today, man? How do you decide?

Well, what— now I asked what they're looking for, you know. When I do my interview process, I just tell them, give me 3 things that you are looking for in the company. And once you see it, uh, you like, you know what, that's a good fit for me. Then I listen and then I tell them, you know what I'm looking for. I get them 4 things I look for, which has always been a sign. You gotta be hardworking, you gotta be willing to work on a team. And I use an acronym for team, which is Together Everyone Achieves More. I'm not really interested in the person on their own island, and you could do that, but I, I love community. Third, I look for, you know, uh, growth. Do you have a desire to grow? Because when I'm coaching people, I look at two things: is it a skill or a will? If it's a skill that they lack, and you know, you chose kind of my agency, let me help you because you are on the conference calls, you are buying leads, you are working. You may just need some development, some skills. Okay, I can help you. But if it's a will, you're not willing to do it, there's nothing I could do with that.

Amen. That's a tough one, dude.

It is.

That's why I see a lot of people get stuck, bro, is they try to take those people who, who don't have it in them and they try to pull them and drag. So mentally exhausting. I was talking to some of my crew this weekend. They called me yesterday, Sunday, and, uh, about this guy that I sent. And I'm like, hey, he— of course they tell you all the right things at the beginning. Oh yeah, you know. And then we put them through this program that's like boot camp, this process. Here's— you learn ABCD, whatever. Um, and he wasn't really listening, he wasn't following it. And my crew was like trying so hard to get him to do the next step and beg, basically begging him to put in the work that he ain't putting in. And I called, I'm like, why are y'all—

what do you—

just tell him it ain't a fit.

Yeah, yeah, it's okay too, you know. And that's loving. I, I realize that, you know, uh, clarity is kind. Yeah, I'm gonna be a fit for you. Well, I'm gonna be a fit for you, which is okay. And I would much rather you learn this sooner than later versus I'm wasting your time and I'm trying to, uh, create something that's not there.

Yeah.

And that's not saying people can't change. But that would depend entirely on them. Yeah, and not on me. I used to have a Messiah complex. I could change them. If he kills me, I'm gonna change him. And I almost died.

Yeah, buddy, I remember that. Yeah, struggle. Yeah, that's like— it's— yeah, they just— they can't get access to everything they want access to when they roll out of bed one random Tuesday that they decide today's the day they're gonna work, you know what I mean? It's like put in the work and earn it, and then we'll, we'll be here to take care of you for sure.

Absolutely.

Um, you said that— I like the skill part because I agree, if you give me the work, the skill sets— this, the skill set on this thing is so easy to, yeah, to help people with. What do you see the most? The ones that give you the will but don't have the skill. What are one or two tips that you can give people skill set-wise that you tend to work on with people? I mean, what are some changes that you help people make? What up, y'all? Officially releasing my book. You can go on and order it now at johnwetmore.com or click the link below. It's where I go over the 6 basic principles I implemented to go from a struggling agent for my first couple years to issuing nearly $500,000 a month. And go through stories and examples and exercises that you can do to implement for yourself. Appreciate it. Again, johnwetmore.com. Get yours. Later.

Yeah, a couple things we can do. You know, the old, you know, we always role play.

But once again, specifically, what do you work on? Like, give them— you like—

yeah. So if it's going to be them trying to book the appointment, so I may work on a phone script. It may just be the tone, maybe the pace or the pitch. You may come across a bit salesy, right? So I don't know what that is. So this is an intro. If we're getting a lot of people that just hanging up on them or saying no, let's kind of work on that tone. If they're having a lot of no-shows, so you could book the appointment but nobody show up, well then it may be your tie-down, you know. Let's kind of work on that, you know. Are you really make sure that they know your time is valuable and you value them? Are they really writing down your name? Are they really locking in that time and that day? You know, uh, if you use Calendly for the reminders, but are you really locking down that appointment? So that may have been a phone script. If they could call the leads and they book the appointment, and now they are sitting with people, so they sit ratio is high, but now it's a close ratio. I can sit with 10 people and I'm closing maybe one, but then I gotta train on at-home presentation. Are you really being engaging? Are you listening? And asking questions versus making statements. What I mean by that, I could tell you, John, this is why you need this policy. I'm gonna tell you this policy, John, because you got a wife and you got kids, and you were to die, they're gonna be up a creek. You want to buy this?

Yeah.

It doesn't work. Or I could ask you, what would it look like if you were to die? Not today. How would that affect your family? Tell me about that. Then they start selling me on why they need that policy. So it could be an in-home presentation. So it just depends on their journey, where they at. And that's why we track the business. And I track to see how many dollars I'm making. Um, because it could be a work ethic. Then I had to track and pay how many— yeah, how many appointments I booked, you know, what is my C ratio on these appointments and what's my close ratio. So then that way I could pinpoint why I need to kind of laser focus the training. You know, if it's recruiting, you know, then that's a whole different conversation as well. But if just sales, it just is one or the other— over the phone, booking the appointment, locking down the appointment, or closing the sale. And I can kind of coach in those specific directions.

Makes sense. We, um, so for those that— certainly tracking is a big piece of what I do. Um, if you go to the site, I think you go to johnwetmore.com/tracker, they'll put the link here. I actually give one out free. To where they can track appointments, dial, all that, all the stuff, all the important stuff. And it's like, every time I, I have someone struggling, I'm like, hey, give me the last 2 months' numbers, right? I want, I want to know how many phone calls you made, how many appointments you booked, how many sales you made, how much you invested in leads, right? And the premium. Give me those for like August and September, separate numbers, right? And every time I do it, dude, they'll send them to me and I get on the phone. I'm like, so do you know why? A lot of times I don't have to say it. A lot of times they'll be like, I know why you made me do this.

Yeah, do you get the agent who be reluctant to give you their numbers? Black?

Yeah, the ones— yes, because they know they're that bad, 100%, dude. But it tells a story and it tells exactly where they need help, like you said. It's very easy to see when you put it on paper, you know. And I always find it funny, man, how few people know their stuff. Yeah, I'm like, you don't know what? Like, you, you don't keep track of nothing? Every time I go to like a business, you see people track— like, I go to the chiropractor and they have a little sheet that they keep track of how many people showed up that day. When you go to Dunkin' Donuts, my kids, my— they like to— they have Dunkin' Donuts in the same spot as like the ice cream place. Baskin-Robbins, I think it's one store for both. And when you go on the inside, right above the drive-through window, it tracks how many clients came through the drive-through that day. Like, even the 16-year-old at Dunkin' Donuts knows their numbers.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you ask grown adults here, like, how much did you invest? How many calls did you make last month? And they don't know nothing.

I'm like, you know what? And which is crazy because, you know, I used to work for AT&T. We had a customer counter. So I'm familiar with that.

Yeah, yeah.

When I became an agent, I didn't track. I just assumed. Yeah, imagine that, you know. And that's what I meant by, hey, you can learn how to sell, but do you learn how— but can you learn how to become a business and know your numbers? Uh, know how much you get paid per dial, you know, even they don't answer. Know what is your sit ratio, what is your close ratio, your investment. Because if you try to present a business, uh, to a person, a business proposal, they're gonna want to know that, you know.

Yeah, I'll give the flip side of it a little bit because those that watch, I just want to make sure I give some clarity on it. Like, like close ratio, all that stuff, to be clear, on a Monday afternoon, that shit don't matter. Yeah, like I don't care what your close ratio is tomorrow. Like, no one cares. It doesn't mean anything. Yeah, you know, but when you track tomorrow but you do it over time— now again, if you made 12 phone calls tomorrow, that's bad.

Absolutely.

But if you go 0 for 10 tomorrow, it doesn't mean the lead sucked. You just might have sucked that day.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? It's like, but what tracking every day does is over time it does paint a picture. You look at it after 90 days, 6 months, 12 months, bro, you start seeing some averages. And now you know, like, if I input A, B is gonna spit out. Dude, that's what became lethal in this business to me is understanding that.

Absolutely. You know, and then that's how people— so again, their emotions are under control, right? I tell people, one day does not make a week, one week does not make a month, one month does not make a quarter, and one quarter does not make a year.

Yeah.

So you just, you know, it is— you have hunting and gathering, planting, reaping. It's, it's a season, all right? Now I prefer that your season, your season of planting should not last 6 months. You know, you should have some, you know, reap some. But once again, you got to know your numbers. You got to do the work. Going back to what you mentioned with those, uh, the people hunting gold, yeah, they did the work first, that they invested first, they, they got the land first. If you build it, then it would come, you know.

You know, sometimes though, they go out there and they dig a big old hole and they spend a whole week digging out this area and and then filtering the dirt out, and at the end they got like no gold. But then the following week they found a spot and they hit like a vein and they kill it, you know what I mean? It's like, it just— it's part— even when I sold nearly— I sold, you know, $460 grand in a year premium, dude, every day didn't go perfect. Yeah, I promise you that. Yeah, yeah, a lot of bad days.

Yeah, and that's the journey. That's the fun part. Could you imagine if you just have happy days every day and peak days? You know, you won't appreciate it.

There's no such thing really, because it'd be— that'd become the norm and that'd be the bad side, you know what I mean?

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love it.

So you need that either up and down. So I love peaks and valleys. Yeah, just kind of reduce those valleys, you know.

Yeah, I mean, you want to do your best to not have as many, but No, and they ain't never gonna go away. It's like baseball, dude. You ain't never gonna get rid of strikeouts. It's never going away in the history of baseball. They will— strikeouts will never go away. Yeah, you know, it's just part of it.

But if you bat.300, you're gonna say Hall of Fame.

Heck yeah, you do it long enough, you are.

Yeah, you're like, come on now, let me hit that. I don't— I only hit it 3 out of 10 times.

Yeah, you do that for 10 years, you know your name. So is this So is this.

Yeah, you know, it's amazing when you just do a little bit of work in whatever industry, you become, you know, the, uh, the status, the status quo.

It's true.

And then people break through that ceiling. Michael Jordan, you know, was the, the pinnacle. And some people still say, now he's the greatest, and you know, I can see that. But now he was the pinnacle of basketball. Just going by numbers alone, man, LeBron has shattered, you know, his numbers. I'm necessarily no better basketball player if you're looking at overall performance, but just number-wise, he took Jordan numbers and accelerated.

You start an argument now.

Yeah, LeBron.

Y'all comment, Jordan or LeBron. I'm a Jordan all day long. It's not even close to me.

You know what, I'm a Kobe. I like—

ain't mad at that. I'd go Jordan and Kobe before LeBron, personally.

Yeah, I still go with Kobe. Jordan, you know, and that's a whole different debate, you know, who's better. But it's just pure data. LeBron numbers beat Jordan and Kobe numbers. We ain't talking about the finals, we ain't talking about, you know, just points and all that. Yeah, longevity.

Yeah, he's been in the league a long time.

Yeah, yeah, but it's all subjective who's the best.

But I do want to know, they're going to ignore all the good stuff we talked about, just want to talk about this.

Yeah, absolutely. That was a great podcast, I would go with Kobe. Like, that's all you got from that? But the point is, whatever that bar, uh, has been set, anyone can break it. The bar is not that permanent. Yeah, just a measuring stick. We can all get better, you know. And that's, that's what I look forward to.

When I sometimes I hesitate when I say what I sold is, I'd be like, $460 grand. And in today's world, that's not that much. When I did it, dude, it was like no one was doing that kind of volume. Very few people. They were— I was 4th in the country and at our company at the time.

Yeah.

Um, so there were only 3 others that sold it even. But today Do we have like— I was looking at the other day, I shared it with someone. Our top 50 are already— this was through September. I was looking at September's— through September, year to date, our top 50 were over $400 grand already.

It's crazy.

It's just a different game now.

I know. I mean, a granddad driving across country like you and I used to do. Yeah, yeah. You know, like back in my day, we had to do this. Uh, and we all talk about the— and this one thing I want people to know, the best insurance agent has not been discovered yet. You know, like you said, what was your ceiling is not people's floor.

Yeah, that's true, 100%.

Yeah, we got this new agent, he's not in my agency, but he built the company now. He started back in July, so July was the first month. Uh, his first month he did $28,000. Know, commission, right? And his second month, which was August, he brought home $170,000. That was my year, my third year, you know what I'm saying?

All the time now. Yeah, that's become the norm.

It become today's world. So let me ask you this, what, what would you tell a person now? Why should I join insurance? Look at—

I mean, yeah, I mean, one, I I don't know that you should join insurance. Okay, honestly, maybe you shouldn't, you know what I mean? Leave more for us because we'll take it. I'll stay the hell out of it and we'll stay in it. Yeah, you know, um, no dude, I think the reality is, again, the industry's been around for— y'all Google it— it's been around the way we know it for damn near 200 years, 150 years, whatever, however long these companies are. I mean, Mutual of Omaha of the world, they've been around forever. But even if you go like, there's documents of it, and I'm not a big Bible guy, but I know that like, is there's insurance references in the— even back then.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

It's like there are— there were rem— how do you say it?

Rem—

I don't know the right word. Things that seem similar back then. Okay, there's a word I was trying to use. One of y'all will know it. Remblances, semblances. I don't know the word. Um, yeah, no, I don't— I'm not good with words, so I use— they were— they were thinking But what I do know is, dude, they're never gonna— there's leads are never gonna go away. And I don't mean leads like you buy Facebook from so-and-so. I mean like human beings who are looking for coverage. They're never gonna stop dying and they're never gonna stop being born. And insurance, they know the stats, they know the, uh, what do you call it, the actuary science behind it. They know what the profitability levels are.

It's—

this business is not going anywhere. And, and the people in the fancy-ass buildings downtown in every big city, you know, they ain't coming out to sell. Yeah. So they're gonna pay us to sell, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's, it's an, it's a, it's an all— it's not one that— certainly there are changes.

Yeah.

But the basics of what it is, you pay a premium, you die, you get covered. You don't, you know what I mean? All the benefit, those things aren't changing, dude. It's not, you know. Um, and most people aren't cut out for it. Most people aren't cut out for most sales.

Yeah.

Um, but this is a different game, dude. And if you got— if you got what it takes to put in the work, this business— the money's in this business. I don't know if anyone's confused by that. You like under a rock.

Yeah.

You know, banks and insurance companies, you go downtown, every building is a bank or an insurance, you know what I mean? It's like, that's what there is.

Yeah.

And how the banks are in insurance behind the scenes. You know, I mean, you know, all the way it works, you know. So it's, again, if you're looking for opportunity, financial services is where it's at. And, you know, but if you're, if you're looking for that easy get rich quick, I'm gonna roll out of bed and just be— stay, stay in real estate doing what you're doing.

Yeah, this is not for those type of people, but that's what makes it so great for those who do decide to do it if they have what it takes. Uh, And like you mentioned, that sales is not for everybody. I remember when I was manager at AT&T and these people had a salary plus commission, they still had a hard time coming to work. Uh, they still had a hard time coming to work on time. We had a goal of selling DirecTV. You only had to do 6 a month and we had a customer flow coming every day. The same people hit their goals and the same people got rolled up. 100% opportunity and the same product. So it really just depends on the individual. Yeah, it really does.

It ain't the— it ain't the next shiny object. If you're a shiny object seeker, just keep it moving. Yeah, you know what I mean? But if you're looking for a real opportunity, I mean, I just see how many people in the business have made it. And it's every company, it's every line of insurance, it's every style. I don't care if you do leads, friends and family, you prospect, you do white collar, you do high-end, you wear a suit and tie, you'd wear flip-flops. It— there's money in all of it. You know, people at every company in every style of insurance, and there's someone rich at every one of them.

It is. It does. It all work. So the, the common denominator is what I work. Yeah, that, that's the thing, you know, if I could work it, uh, but yeah, it's— I mean, it's a beautiful industry, but it would take hard work. And that's one thing I do want to get across, you know, to your listeners and whoever, like, kind of prepare and be mentally tough because, uh, it can be challenging. So we got to grow, you know, dude. Read a book and then one day you write a book like John, you know.

Go get it, get it.

Absolutely, absolutely. If they—

are you online? If they want to find you, where do they— where do people follow you?

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram, uh, it's I believe it's John_Patricia Clayton, uh, Instagram.

We'll put the link too.

Okay, yeah, I can see, uh, TikTok. I'm on YouTube, I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, uh, everywhere. I'm out there now.

Yeah, speaking at events. I see you.

I will be doing one here in Memphis November 16th. Uh, okay, so that's coming around, you know, the corner. About 2 or 3 weeks, so I will be there. Yeah, I'll be hosting that one. So, uh, so yeah, I'm excited.

Give it back, brother. Appreciate you getting on and sharing, and we'll be in touch. If I can help you, obviously let me know. And to those that watch, and we appreciate you, go subscribe and like us and do all that shit, and we'll see you at the next one.

All right, thank you for the opportunity. I really enjoyed it, John. I was a pleasure to speak with you, by the way.

I appreciate that, man. Yeah, appreciate it, brother. Keep at it, dude. We'll talk soon.

All right, have a good one.