This Telesales Phone Script Made Me $300k Per Year ft. Vanessa Powell | Ep43

I haven't sold insurance full-time in like 8 years. I still get referrals, like a couple. I get like a couple a month. Every once in a while I'll post a little something on social like, hey, I sold one today. Yeah, it's literally just someone referred me someone, it took me 20 minutes to write 3 grand or whatever. What up, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Got, uh, Vanessa Powell here. If you ever want to know How to make multiple six figures at— heck, what are you, 25 now, I hear? Yeah, you can do it at any age, but imagine being 25 knocking down multiple six figures. I'm like, as I was, as I was getting ready for this, I'm like, I got a little brother who just started selling something. He's way younger than me, he's literally like early 20s or whatever, and, uh, he hit me up. He's like, hey, I'm starting to sell this stuff, who do you know? And I'm so bad, like 'Oh, you know what I do. Why don't you do this?' So when we're done, I'm gonna send him your recording because you're, you know, closer to his age and probably get him to see it different than I do.

Appreciate it.

But welcome on.

Happy to have you.

Thank you for having me.

I'm super excited to do this with you.

Yeah, it's exciting. So give him a little, little intro. I don't know how the hell we connected, but obviously on social somehow or another. I don't know the origination, to be honest, but I've seen you out there killing it for a long time and doing some cool stuff, and you're, you're building a brand out there a little bit. I see some of your videos there, so I'm like, hell, she'd be fun to chat with. So if you, if you don't mind, give a little intro to people, and, and we'll get into some details on how to help them actually get paid.

Yeah, absolutely. That's the biggest goal, right? Getting people paid. So, um, I've been in the business, like, um, Mr.

Wetmore said, for about, uh, you can definitely call me John, by the way. I'm not that old.

I know. Killing it. But yeah, I've been in the business for about 3 and a half years, almost 4 years now. I joined when I was 21. Before I got into insurance, I was working in real estate a little bit and then bartending, serving. And I also just graduated from college at Arizona State University. So I kind of just fell into the business. I never anticipated ever working in insurance. It's such like a random industry to fall into, I feel like. But yeah, I started doing door-to-door insurance like most people for about 6 to 9 months or so, and then we transitioned fully virtually and we've been selling over the phone ever since.

That's dope. So door-to-door, you mean knocking on doors again, or like in field sales, or both?

Uh, yeah, both.

Obviously you're knocking on doors and then leads, or no leads?

Uh, cold door knocking, all the above. I've done it all.

Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about that. Let's just— so I did a— which we're gonna, we're gonna go through here, how to get effing good, because I obviously, my— I got a workshop coming up and it's like how to get effing paid. I just, I like it, um, and I just— but I just did a video that I dropped, like, if you're— I don't know how they worded it, but in my head it was like, if you're broke as fuck, here's how to start. I got no money, I can't get started. And a lot of people, like, what you did to get started out in the field and knocking on doors, I want to hear more about, but it's not uncommon at all. And somehow people get confused that if they, they need like a zillion dollars to get started in this space. And I'm like, I didn't have any money when I started. So give me, give me some details on what it was like out there knocking on doors. Like, how'd that start?

Yeah, so I mean, I started just like you and pretty much everyone who starts in this business, very, very broke. Um, and I had, I had big dreams. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be a millionaire my first year, right? Oh yeah, it didn't really work out like that, but you know, the thought was good attitude to have. I mean, I took out credit cards. I asked my grandma for a $2,000 loan. I said, Grandma, please, like, I really want to make this work. I need $2,000. And I basically gave up my apartment and we traveled the country for like 6 months just knocking doors. And so I feel like you just kind of have to bet on yourself. I mean, I took out credit cards. You're already broke, you might as well just take yourself down to zero, right? Like, what do you have to lose at that point?

So was that just what was taught to you as the norm to start knocking on doors, or was it like—

Yeah, I mean, I flew out. I was living in Arizona at the time, and my mentor, you know, was out in Philly. He was traveling, and he said, hey, you should come out to Philly and work with us. And I booked a flight that night and I started basically selling door-to-door insurance. And I didn't have a lot of money for leads, so, you know, I would find a lead that was, you know, in a good area, and then I would just kind of go and be like, hey, you know, I just helped so-and-so here, um, you know, over with their life insurance. They wanted me to check on you as well. Um, you know, just, just kind of like that.

Every time I tell someone to get out there and do that piece they overcomplicate, like, what do I say? How do I do it? I'm like, really, this is not that deep. Like, what you just said, if someone was willing to do that, they could— and got no money, they could easily make $100 grand if they knock on enough doors. How many, how many were you hitting a day roughly, do you think, when you were new?

Well, so we used to try to book 15 to 20 appointments a day. So instead of— I know what most people used to do is they used to dial for one day and then do two days. Sure, we used to do, um, one day of dialing and then hit every single door the following day. So we would book like literally 15, 20, 30 appointments, as many as we possibly could for that day, just, you know, with no-shows or— yeah, um, just things like that.

And then just banging on all the neighbors' doors as you go. So what do you, what do you say then to the people that are like trying to do really well in this business and have the million-dollar dream too, and they book like 2 appointments a day?

Well, so I'm not in that space anymore, right?

Just in general though, the thought process of like, hey, I'm only— meaning I'm only presenting so many times a day, or meaning the limited activity, right? You come in, some people hear 15, 20 appointments a day and they're like, holy moly, I don't even understand that. Most insurance agents, no matter what part, which line of this, however they do it— telesales, one-call close, book an appointment— none of that really matters at the end because they all work. But like the thought process most go into it and they limp in, you know what I mean? So that age, you're obviously building a team, like I just— I'm curious your thought process and how you explain to others that what you did, if that were normal, they would see success but they're trying to like dip their toe in and make it work. So I'm more concerned or curious about what you think in that sense, not exactly, you know, whether you do that piece today or not.

And when I was doing door-to-door, I think the biggest mindset that I had behind it is that it was always temporary, right? I never saw myself being in the field 24/7. I, you know, I knew that I was gonna build something, I was gonna train others to do the same. And so what I tell all agents when they first start is, you know, you either have more time or you have more money. So right now you probably have more time than you do money. Right? And so when you've been in this business for a little bit longer, it might flip-flop, right? Maybe now you have more time or more money than you do time. So, you know, it's just a matter of what you have right now. And so putting the activity and just having that mindset, it's temporary, I think is kind of what I, you know, I taught myself and also I try to teach others.

100%. Most people do feel like it's a forever plan. It's like, no, no, when you do it right, it definitely is not. Heck, selling insurance doesn't have to be a forever plan when you do it right, period. Like, sales, period, doesn't. And that, that's what I saw. I was like, oh no, this is— I'm definitely only doing this for as short as possible, you know. Um, dig it. So how did, how did you— what did you struggle with early? Like, where do you think you were the weakest looking back?

I think I struggled a lot with learning how to scale and train and develop. I think that's one of the hardest things about building a team and also in this business, right? I feel like selling is the easy part. I can talk to clients, I can read a script, I can handle objections because people say the same thing every single day. But when you, when you're building a team and you're working with so many different personalities, learning how to navigate every single person, you know, make everyone happy, things like that, that was probably the hardest challenge for me, especially when I started at 21, having no business experience at all. Nothing. No, no managing staff, no nothing.

So that was hard for me at 35 when I started building. I'm like, it was still hard. It still is hard. It's the biggest challenge. That's the most ongoing piece of the business that never goes away, is always the new people and new personalities. That's cool. Um, have you ever read the book, um, I don't know if you're much of a reader, but Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership.

Yeah, I read that book a while back, but I feel like when I read books, I read them and then I read so many and then I kind of forget.

Like, forget. Yeah, it was cool at the time, but yeah, it's a good one for like understanding how to manage different personalities. That book helped me a lot with that, with that phase. So maybe one day we check it out, or one of y'all trying to figure this thing out. It did this. I don't remember a lot of details about books. I'm the same way. I'll read it, I'm like, I forget 3 minutes later what I read. But that one stuck with me because it was like, whoa, I didn't understand the way people worked, you know.

Yeah, I mean, I think for me, like, the biggest thing I've learned with building a team, working with so many people, is just how important it is to put other people first because you want people to be happy. And with them being happy, that also is going to make them more money, make you more money, make the company money, make the insurance company money. So I think just putting people first is like The biggest, the biggest lesson when you build.

Yeah, even with clients, same concept. It's hard to do. Some people struggle with that, especially when they're broke.

Yeah, you have that, that broke person mindset for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Um, cool, let's talk to them. Let's, let's, let's teach some people what— I'll let you take this whatever direction you want. This is obviously not your first rodeo, but if you had to give some advice on how to get to, let's just call it 6 figures, forget multiple 6 figures right now because there's a lot of people who don't even make that. Um, and then we'll, we'll take out— I do want to talk about some of the building stuff later, but Give us some tips, whether you want to go through scripts or sales, or I'll let you decide.

Cool. Awesome. Thank you. So I mean, the first thing I always tell people when they come into the business is that there's 3 levels to this business and you want to be doing all 3 levels if you want to start making multiple 6 figures and eventually get into the millions club. So the first one is going to be selling, right? You have to lead from the front and you have to learn how to sell. The second one is going to be hire or recruiting. And then the last level is gonna be training and also developing, coaching, things like that. So if you can consistently do sell, recruit, train and develop every single day and do that every single day consistently, there's no way in a year, maybe 2 years, you won't be making multiple six figures a year. Um, now if you're only doing one of those things, it's going to be a lot harder for you to make multiple six figures. So I always tell people, sell, recruit, train, and develop. Those are the three pillars of this business.

Okay, let's start with the first one then. We got selling, right? So let's teach them how to sell a little bit.

So we always do, um, one-call closes. So we don't really do appointments, we don't love it, do any of that.

Um, I hear a lot of people struggle with that. I get asked all the time, like, how do I one-call close? I'm like, it's still people. It's so— some— let's, let's dive into that. You know, you teach it, so I'd be curious what's, what's important to make that work.

So the first thing is we always triple dial. We call them, the client, 3 times. I always try to have, um, a minimum of 30 points of contact for each lead. So that includes calls, texting. You can leave voicemails. I don't really leave voicemails at all, but, you know, calling and texting, I would say 30 points of contact for, for each lead. Triple dialing. And we try to have 3 dial sessions in a day, 2 to 3. So 8 AM to maybe 11, 1 to 4, and then, you know, 5 to 8. And within those dial sessions, you want to be triple dialing and But you want to be hitting certain KPIs. So when I say KPIs, I mean, you know, what are the goals that we're trying to hit on a daily basis in an activity-based business? So within those dial sessions, John, we want to hit either 200 to 300 dials, or we want to hit 1 presentation, or we want to hit 1 sale. Now within those dial sessions, if you hit one of those metrics, that's considered a win.

So 300 dials, 1 presentation or 1 sale in that 3-hour window, whatever, 4-hour window.

Yeah, 8 AM to 11, and then the other 2.

Cool, love it.

And then, um, yeah, we just focus on consistently buying leads and also working referrals. So, um, you know, a lot of people think, you know, working in a lead-based business, we're just— we think buy leads, buy leads, buy leads, you know what I mean? It kind of gets that like bad stigma. And so if you're properly working your leads and, you know, working referrals off those leads, there's no way for you to not be profitable. So referrals have been a huge game changer for us in the last probably year or so. I used to never collect referrals because I was kind of scared of collecting referrals. I don't know, were you scared at one point too?

Yes, I was a lead— I was terrible at it, to be honest. I was a lead junkie for sure. It took me years to be like, oh, These are the best leads is the ones that my client— I just, I was very dumb about it early too. I was not good. Um, and then I, you know, with time I figured it out, but I wasn't in the field that much longer after. And, you know, looking back, I'm like, oh, I messed that up a good bit. I'd have been— and I made good money, but it could have been smarter, you know. So we teach it a lot more than I did it, to be honest.

Referrals have an 80% close ratio, so you Yeah, it's, it's the highest quality lead that you'll find out there. And so the way that we do that is we, you know, obviously collect their beneficiary and then we collect a contingent beneficiary and then we have 3 emergency contacts. So I mean, you can collect more, right? You can say that we need 10 emergency contacts if you want. Um, but then at that point, you know, you're going to get their emergency contact numbers. And you're going to reach out and call them and text them.

Nice. And you tell the client why, obviously, how do you, how do you go about getting that info?

Yeah, so what I say to the client is I say, okay, John, so I'm sure you know that millions of dollars go unclaimed in life insurance every single year just because they don't let their families know that they have the insurance in place. So my job is to make sure that that doesn't happen to you. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to put you in a group chat, a group chat with your beneficiaries and let them know who I am. That way, if they need to file, you know, the claim when something happens to you, they have my contact information. Yeah, simple.

Yeah. And what's wild is the angle is not only easy, it's true. When I was, when I was like your age, touch older, I used to work for the government as an accountant. And one of the things I had to do was— it wasn't— I was making $28 grand a year. I was like a very low-level dude who had an accounting degree. It wasn't that exciting, but thank you. No, so one of the things I used to have to manage was unclaimed funds lists and keep up with them because you have to contact them every— like, the state, the government has to attempt at least to contact people, but they don't try that hard. Um, and some of these lists would sit there for decades in people's names because the state then gets to hold the money and use it or leverage it or whatever, you know what I mean? It's earmarked for the people if they claim it. But then after a certain period of time, the state goes, all right, it's not yours anymore, it's ours, and they keep it. So like, my point is, as you— as we were looking at these, there was gajillions of people with life insurance that their families just didn't know it. It was insane how often that happened. Yeah, it was wild.

Um, yeah, so Yeah, it is true. And so, I mean, with the referrals too, it's, it's just a super easy sale because they already trust you. You already have that credibility, and it's a super easy transition, right? If they— most, most people don't have coverage is what I find when I work referrals. So it's, it's super easy. And if they have it through work, you just have to break down and, you know, manage the expectations. Hey, you know, I'm sure you know your your work insurance is like a company car. You only have it when you work there, um, and then, you know, kind of go into the sale that way.

What's funny is I, um, I haven't sold insurance full-time in like 8 years, and, uh, I still get referrals, like a couple. I get like a couple a month. So I still write some policies, and they're all just— every once in a while I'll post a little something on social like, hey, I sold one today. Yeah, it's literally just someone referred me someone. It took me 20 minutes to write $3,000 or whatever. My point is, they are easy. 8 years later, I still get them, and I don't even know how to get to half the apps, and I still make a few grand a month just from referral business that I'm certainly going to turn away.

I'm like, oh yeah, it's like a snowball. Like, this, this business is like a whole snowball effect. What you do today is not going to show up for either maybe 3 months, 6 months down the road. So it's crazy.

It's funny watching, um, having to get people to understand that, and then they usually kind of give up right before they hit that little snowball, get started. Yeah, it's like, it's a hard thing to absorb. Um, so cool, easy on the, easy on the referral thing. I want to go backwards just a little. If, how do you, if someone were to ask you, how do you, you know, maybe there's, maybe they're selling in the field currently, like I have one dude who I'm trying to help, he has a field sales team that can't figure out for some reason how to transition to telesales, one-call closing. And then I have individuals that just are like, they can't wrap their head around how to close a deal in one conversation. Um, so I would love for you to highlight again whether you want a script. I think would be cool, like, how do you go about it conversationally? How do you go about it? What's your mindset going into it? I mean, and then how do you transition from like, hey, here's who I am, to like Dude, we're getting medical info, banking info, pick and plant, you know what I mean? Like, some people struggle, like, um, you know, how do they word it, like, uh, transitioning to business in a sense, you know? Yeah, cool. Let's dive in there.

Yeah, so I think, um, you know, when I start the call, I give them my credentials. So I have them write down my name, my license number, and then I start the call off with what I call power questions. And that's just going to give me an idea about where they're at in this process. And also I want to set up the call properly to start. So I ask them questions, you know, um, what were you looking at coverage for just yourself or do you have a spouse as well? I asked them, um, have you been trying to get this set up for a while now or am I the first person you've been able to talk to? So that's going to eliminate any agents that are before you. I also asked them, are you familiar with, you know how this works, you know, mortgage protection, life insurance, whatever. I asked them, is there anyone else that needs to be involved in this conversation, or do you make all of your final decisions yourself? So that's eliminating the main ones.

Yep. Yeah, I need to talk to my spouse, think about it, all that jazz. Yeah. How do you get there? I know agents that can't even get to that point, you know what I mean? They're like, I try, I just— how do I go from like Hey, I'm calling you back to these power questions.

So I just go straight into it, right? So I say, okay, you know, I'm Vanessa Powell, here's my license number with the state. They just require me to leave that with you for your records. Um, and then I send them over my business card. Okay. And John, are you kind of familiar with how mortgage protection works? Have you ever had it in the past?

No, no idea.

Okay. So it's pretty much what most people will think of. It's insurance that's going to either cover the full mortgage partial of your mortgage, or there's some plans that will even protect the equity that you built in the home. Does that make sense?

Does.

Perfect. Now, were you looking at options for just yourself, or do you have a spouse as well?

I have a wife too.

Okay, perfect. And what's her name?

Stephanie.

Stephanie. Okay, perfect. And have you guys been trying to get this set up for a while now, or am I the first person you've been able to talk to about this?

First one.

First one. Okay, perfect. And I'm assuming since you're the one that had filled out the request, I'm assuming that you're the one that typically takes care of the insurance decisions for you and your wife.

I do. And this is true as can be. Stephanie wouldn't know where to begin to log into our banking stuff.

Perfect. You're kind of like me where we wear the pants in the relationship. So we'll make sure to go over those options for both you and your wife and then go into the presentation.

Yeah, that's the best. And I wish people understood, like, how simple it is, but you're very intentional. You don't— these aren't— you're just not winging it. Like, the questions are planned and they lead to something, they prevent something. They're, they're on purpose, you know. And I find the most people that struggle with this, they just don't know they're on purpose, or even they're reading a script and they don't understand why they're saying— they don't study it, they don't understand the point of it, you know. And it's like, if you— like, no one asked if you can read to them. Like story time is weird when you're trying to make a sale.

Yeah, and people think being good at sales is, oh, I know how to handle this objection, and oh, I know how to say this, but being good at sales and working in insurance, it's learning how to set the call up strategically where you don't get those objections in the first place. Because you can always feel it, right? You can always feel like if you're talking to someone and they have a wife, it's like, okay, I might get this objection. Let's handle it now so at the end of the call I don't get that. You can feel it. So when you feel it, you should probably say something.

Just a kick in the ass, you know. I love John Wetmore for that. So yeah, great, great event. If you're a struggling insurance agent, or quite frankly an agency manager struggling to grow, and you're looking for some help, let me help you. My name is John Wetmore. I've built an agency of over 6,000 agents across the country. We'll issue over $200 million in paid premium this this year, and I have an event coming up in my office, Metro Atlanta, February 27th and 28th. I'll be spending 2 days teaching you everything I've learned in the last decade and helped thousands of agents build their agency and their business. Click on the link below, register. We'll see you there. I remember being new and like feeling it but pretended I didn't, right?

Yeah, it's self-sabotage.

Yeah. Like, that did not work real well. Yeah, I used to mess that up royally. That's funny. Um, cool. And then, is there— can you give some clarity on how you set the precedent? Because I, I hear people say a lot, um, you know, I'm giving out quotes and I just, you know, I guess I'm not, I'm not closing any though. I'm like, well, your thought process is— my opinion is, if you're the person that thinks they're giving out quotes, you're definitely just giving out quotes. Yeah, you know, but how do you like do business. Um, once you— questions, you know what I mean? Like, how are we setting it up, closing it, making sure we get banking, social, paid today, issued policies?

Cool. So go through the power questions, and then I explain, uh, you know, who I am, what I do, and how I do it. Um, hey John, so this process is super simple. Everything is based on your age and your health, so just going to go through a couple of medical questions with you and that'll narrow down the options because we look at over 200 different insurance companies for you. So we work with insurance companies like Aflac, Mutual of Omaha, AmeriCo, Aetna. Have you heard of a few of those before? Sure.

Yep.

Okay, perfect. Yeah, we only work with the best. Um, but once we pull up some options for you, John, we're going to look to see which company will most likely approve you, and then we'll fill out an application and make sure you can qualify. Now, as long as we find you a coverage amount, John, and a price that makes you happy, Is there any other reason that you wouldn't want to see if you're able to qualify today for the coverage?

No, I think it makes sense.

Okay, great. And then I go into financial.

Yeah. What if you get objections there? Like, eh, how do you handle those? Or what do you get there for objections, first of all?

Yeah, it's two things. People either say what you just said, which is nope, no issues, right? Then the other thing that people say is, well, you know, I'm concerned about budget. And then I say, yep, John, that's what most people say. They just want to make sure it's affordable for them but also solves their problem. That's why they have me giving you a call.

Makes sense.

Bam.

Just kind of brush it off.

Yeah.

And I think, again, if I had to— if I had to say where I think most people struggle and are very uncomfortable is setting the expectations as clear as you did.

Yeah.

That's why there's confusion for a lot of y'all at the end on why they would do business, or why— or they or they word it more poorly. Like, you, you worded it really well, but some make it like, we're only seeing if you're eligible today, we're not doing business. Like, you made it really clear about getting coverage, and you know what I'm saying? It's like some people try that and then wuss it a little bit. They're a little afraid to go like, you know. So for me, I was always really clear, and I'm like, yo, I say what she said. Same concept. Again, none of this stuff did we invent, to be clear. Yeah.

And so I always train people like this: you always want to say what you're going to do You do it and then you say what you just did.

Yeah, right.

That's how it should be for every single thing, which is pitching options, going through the application. Always say what you're going to do, how it's going to work, because people just want to know what's going on. They just, you know, whether it's 5 minutes, whether it's, you know, just whatever it is, they want to know what's going on.

Yeah, it's like, that's normal in everyday life, and I don't know why people confuse it, but it's like, I was at the dentist the other day and they're like, all right, John, we're gonna go in this room, we're gonna take x-rays in here, so I'm gonna have you open wide and put these things in your mouth, I'm gonna take some pictures, then we're gonna go in the other room, we're gonna do clean— and they explained every piece of the dental stuff we were about to do.

Yeah.

And then they just, like you said, did like this very normal stuff, you know. Um, so I think if y'all would just focus on the intentionality piece, the rest of it's relatively natural, conversational. Again, intentionality than anything. Um, so dig it. And then, you know, from there, like, I even tell people at that point, I'm like, yeah, we'll have your insurance here in about 10 minutes, is that cool? Like, after all that other stuff, I'm just wide open about it. Like, oh, we can get you covered in like 10 or 15 minutes. Yeah, which is dope.

Yeah, people ask, I'll say that, be like, yeah, we should have an approval today.

Yeah, yep, I'm just letting them know, you know. Um, I dig it. Cool. Anything else you want to add on the, on the sales side that—

yeah, I think that's the, the only thing I would add is, you know, the financial inventory, that's pretty easy to go through. Medical, make sure you go through the financial, right? That's really important. A lot of people try to skip over the income question, but you need to know if you're selling to someone who owns a Ferrari or a Honda Civic. So yeah, you need to know that. So income You know, I ask about funeral, mortgage, just, you know, all the good stuff. And then the only thing I think that helps me a lot is explaining how the application works. So a lot of people don't, they just go into the application and they're like, what's your social? What's this? What's that? What's your bank account number? And I feel like that throws people off a little bit. So I always just explain how the application will work. So John, we're going to enter in your basic demographics on the application, your name, your height, your weight, contact information, all that good stuff. And then John, we're going to select your beneficiary, which I assume would be Stephanie, right?

Yep.

Awesome. And that's who the money will go to when something happens to you. And then John, there's no medical exams required and there's no blood work. So they'll ask for your social on the application that verifies your medical background and checks your prescriptions. And then lastly, John, we'll select your payment method. That's whatever bank routing and account number you'd like to use. But nothing is due today. You don't pay for anything until your policy actually starts. Does that make sense?

Yep, it does.

That's it.

Here's the application. Just resetting expectations again. This whole common theme here.

Yeah. And I say people's name a lot, like, because people have the average attention span of 7 seconds. So if people aren't listening to you when you're pitching, when you're doing things, it's going to be hard for you to close them on the spot. Spot. So I say people's name all the time.

Smart. I love it. I love it. It's dope stuff. How much, um, are you still selling regular? Oh yeah, only bit. Yeah. What are you issuing? What'd you do? Would you issue last year? I'm curious.

Well, last year I probably did around— I've always done around 200 to 300 a year. That's it since I've started. You know, my, my kind of goal is I like to spend 30-40% of my day selling and then the rest of the day training, developing, and recruiting. So I pour a lot back into the agency. I'm a big believer in selling, but you have to teach people how to sell as well and put time into them.

Yeah, 100%. Where are you at with that? What size? How many agents you working with now?

Well, this is my 4th time rebuilding. This is my 4th time. Good to hear.

Gives people hope that they, they ain't the only ones.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you go through so many waves in this business, and it's okay to restart. And this is my fourth time restarting. So right now I have about 10 agents. My biggest month in the business is $700,000. We had about 200 to 300 agents. Um, but right now I'm at my fourth time rebuilding, and I plan for it to be my last. So I love it.

I always tell people, uh, where you living in Charleston now?

Yeah, I just moved to Charleston a year ago.

Yeah, have you— so do you have to go through Atlanta to get there from wherever you can, like, have layovers here? You've been through Atlanta Airport?

Yeah, yeah, I go to Atlanta quite a bit. Um, I was actually just there a couple weeks ago. I stopped in there on the way to see my family. So yeah, Atlanta's like 5, 6 hours from me.

Yeah, yeah. I, when I was early in the building, one of my first teams was out at Charleston, so I used to go all the time. It's also like an hour flight because I would definitely get on a plane and fly there. Hour and a half, I don't know how long it is. Sure, it's pretty short.

Was that office that was out here? Wasn't there an office out here?

It was, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I remember seeing that and yeah, I never really followed up on it, but I did see that.

Um, yeah, so I always explain the business You know the train you have to get on in Atlanta to get to your bags? Yeah, after you get off the plane or before you get on the plane, that long ass.

Yeah, yeah.

I always say the business is a lot like that train, that it's— it goes from one end to the other 24/7, never stops. But like, you get on, you get— say you fly to Atlanta right now, you get off the plane, you go down a little hallway, you go downstairs, you get on the train, right? You wait for the train, the door's open to this train. And what happens when the doors open? What happens?

A bunch of people just go in and out.

Some people get on, some people get off.

Yep.

And I feel like that's been the business for me the entire time. And then the doors close and it moves to the next station, and some of those same people get off, some more people get on.

Yeah.

You know, and this business will keep doing that. You just gotta keep running the train, you know what I mean? And certainly get more effective to it. And it's like, it's just part of it. We've had You know, some people stay with us for— hell, I've had some people with me the entire time I've been in the business. There's a lot of them who are like, ah, I'm out, and they do their own thing. Whatever, things happen. Um, you know, as long as you keep it moving and understand, all right, maybe it's time for people— a few people to get off, it's all right. You open the doors back up, more ones— more will get on.

Yeah, and you can only control what you can control. And I think the, the biggest thing is just taking accountability for everything. You know, I, I know, throughout my career, I've made mistakes. You know, I've, I've learned from them for sure. But it's just, yeah, like you said, the train, just keep going, keep moving. Just don't get off though.

That's right. Yeah, you can, you can be like the, what do they call that? What's the person that drives the train? Conductor? I don't know what they call it. Yeah, you gotta be that guy.

Cool.

So talk to about what, what do you, what do you Aside from obviously losing people or whatever happens, stuff in the business, what do you, um, what do you think's been the hardest thing to build? Like getting people started, getting people to keep their head right, like where, what, what's the, what's the difficulty you think and what have you learned to do well?

I think that, yeah, I think the hardest thing that I've learned is it's the same thing with your sales calls. It's just setting expectations with people. And so when I first started, I wasn't doing that, right? I was just saying, okay, come on in. And you know, people were showing up late, they weren't being coachable, they weren't having a good attitude, they weren't doing these things. And so now when I bring people on, I say, you know, there's, there's 3 things that working with me, right? You have to show up, have a good attitude and be coachable, right? And those are the biggest things, right? Do the things that you're going to say, and I am willing to work with you. Now, if you don't do any of those things, then it's going to be very difficult for me to want to work with you.

Sure.

So I think it's the same thing, just managing expectations with, with your agents and also having really good communication with them. So I always tell them, I say, hey, you might— there might be times where you might not like me a lot, and that's totally okay. But we need to have good communication and try to develop a good partnership because we're going to be working together a lot. You'll probably see me more than your family. So we might have a few obstacles here and there and just having good communication as we develop a good partnership.

What are some of the reasons people wouldn't like you?

I think I'm just very honest and, you know, very blunt with agents. And I think it can come off kind of apathetic at times. And I'm just a very clear communicator, which some people don't communicate that way, right? There's so many different ways to communicate. And so I get along with people who are very straightforward, just no BS. And then there's some people who I have to, you know, communicate a little bit differently and a little bit more empathetic with things.

So, yeah, I had to— that's the book I referenced earlier, helped some with that. And then I started studying like different types of people and the way they learn and the way they hear and the way they feel. And I'm like, oh, so I have to be dynamic with agents, kind of like I am with clients who are very different. You know what I mean? We adapt to clientele very smoothly and intuitively, almost. Yeah. You know, you're sitting with a grandma, you're sitting with a young dude who works at a warehouse, you know what I mean? You're going to naturally work with them differently. And I always found that early on when I was building, I kind of treated every agent the same, you know, and I didn't have quite the, uh, range in my own teaching. And learning that has helped us blow up, um, because it is, it is tough. Um, cool. What do you wish agents did better? Because I relate to you, the directness and the— like, that's my jam. And I'm thankful I had people like that with me in the business. But I would love to hear what you think from your perspective. Why are more people not seeing success in this thing very quick?

I mean, I think it's a few reasons. I mean, I like to take accountability for a lot of my agents. And if an agent is not seeing success, I feel responsible for that. And that's maybe not a good thing, or maybe it is a good thing.

I love it.

I take accountability for everything, right? If something happens to me, I'm like, oh crap, I could have avoided that by doing this or whatever it is. But I think for me, what I was struggling in the beginning is that when when you're so broke and you don't have money, you just have a scarcity mindset. And so, you know, closing that one person means everything to you, right? That's your rent. And so just trying to learn how to develop an abundance mindset is really, really important in this business, right? If someone says no to you, okay, on to the next. If you recruit someone and they go and work with someone else, okay, on to the next. So I think just transitioning from a scarcity to an abundance mindset is, is very helpful for people who are struggling.

How do you— how'd you get there? I— because I promise you, at 20— you 25 now?

Yeah.

Yeah, I didn't— I was nowhere near that at that, you know. It took me significantly longer. Have you always been that way as parents? Did you just see it sooner and adapt, or have you always had that? Like, how do you How do you get there? You, how did you get there?

Kind of both. I mean, I think from a young age I've always had very high expectations for myself and what I wanted to do. And so for me, I knew that I was going to get somewhere. I didn't know how or when or anything like that, but I was just going to figure it out as I go. But I think It becomes easier over time. It's kind of like literally riding a bike or anything else in your life. When someone in the business, you know, says something to you, it might hurt that first time, but then, you know, 10 other people say the same thing to you and it hurts a little less, if that makes sense. Like, it just kind of becomes like, oh, I've heard this before, I've been through it, it's not as difficult anymore. More. So it gets easier, honestly. That's how it works for me.

Even though I wasn't good early, I always had that piece. Like, I knew I would figure it out. Um, where I struggle teaching people is the ones that don't have that naturally. Yeah, because not everybody— I assume you figured this out by now— not everybody's like, I'm gonna figure it out, I'll get there, I know I'll have the money, I know I'll make a million bucks. Like, most people don't have that, I've learned.

Yeah, 100%.

And I know I had that when I was a kid. Do you struggle teaching, working with that person, or do you have any advice for like how to— just curious.

I mean, I think that people are always going to do half of what you do. So if you're only working, you know, 20 hours, 30 hours a week, then your agents are only going to work 15. I think that the mindset of it can be developed. 100%. So I mean, I just think it's all dependent on the leader and kind of what they're plugging themselves into, the circle they put themselves in, the books that they're reading, the, you know, things they're looking at on social media, the people they're talking to. And I feel like the abundance mindset can be developed over time, but they have to be intentional about developing it.

Being around the right people is important. Um, it helped me a ton because I was super negative. I read this, I heard this quote, I've been sharing it lately. Um, I listen to this podcast. You ever heard of Modern Wisdom?

No, I haven't.

It's this dude named Chris Williamson. I just found him, someone sent me. He interviewed, um, Matthew McConaughey recently.

Oh, I love, I love— yeah, he has good stuff. Did you read his book?

Yes, on audio. Yeah, it was one of my favorite audiobooks ever. He was so good. Yeah, Green Lights.

Yeah, he's super like emotionally mature. And so for an actor, I feel like you don't really think that about that industry, but it's so interesting because he's— he has such good perspective.

He does. And yeah, he's a bit of a badass.

Yes.

Um, so one of my favorite books, I just read it when it came out, whatever, a year and a half ago, a couple years ago, whatever it was. But, and again, I didn't read it, I did audio. And I don't normally like audio because the boring mundane person reading it, I'm like, ah, but this dude read his own and it was freaking bomb. Um, anyway, so that I heard about this Chris, Chris Williamson guy because someone sent me the McConaughey interview. So I've been listening to this guy too because I liked him. Um, and he said, there's a quote he said uh, the more somebody complains, the less accurate their perspective of the world is. And I was like, wow, that was pretty— that was pretty cool.

That's deep.

Yeah, you know, so meaning you're out there complaining and you're also validating that your complaints are correct or valid, or I— like, you know what I mean? And I'm like, well, they are in your world because your world is twisted because you're the negative one. You just see things through the wrong lens is kind of what he was saying. So your perspective of that situation is wrong. So when you're in that negative moment and you're like, ah, the lead, ah, the client, ah, the chargeback, ah, the agent, ah, this— it's like, be careful, you're, you're blurred, you know what I mean? You're just not seeing it from the same vantage point as, as someone like Vanessa or myself would in that moment, you know what I mean? And learning that— I didn't learn it, I learned that word the way he worded it just last week. But I was taught that concept of like, it's weird when you complain a lot, bad things happen. And when you speak positively about yourself or situations, weird, more good things happen.

Yeah, I agree. And I think when you complain and you have that negative output, you're also putting that energy onto everyone around you. You're just like, I mean, you're just like a fire, a tornado of just negativeness. And so no one wants to be around anyone like that. Like, they'll run. So, um, you know, I've, I've never wanted to put my feelings or, you know, be a burden on people and put that kind of energy out on other people because it does affect other people too.

Sure, I agree. Um, how's social impacted your business? Social media?

It's It's the only thing that has pretty much escalated my business as much as it has. I've, I've never— I've only done attraction marketing, so I've never done, you know, ZipRecruiter, I've never done Indeed, I've never done any of those ads. It's, it's literally just all been attraction marketing. So it's everything.

It's— I know I was scrolling some of your stuff the other day and I'm like, some sales training stuff, like there's some good stuff on there. It's pretty neat.

Yeah, I think I try to educate a lot, um, on my page because that is— I think when you have a platform, people are gonna only follow you for a couple different reasons. One is you inspire people, two is you educate people, or three, you're just cool to look at, right? Like you're cute or whatever. So if you have to have one of those things, and my goal You know, it's probably more to inspire and educate. Um, so that's kind of what I try to focus on.

Yeah. How long you been putting stuff up?

I mean, since I started, I mean, I've had social media since I was younger, but I just kind of started taking pictures and posting business content along the way. And a lot of people get nervous or they kind of just don't really know where to start and you just kind of have to just start and figure it out like anything.

Yeah, make a mess of it at first.

Yeah, I mean, I've learned a lot about it, and it's so easy to just— you don't have to overcomplicate it either. Like, just pick up your phone, talk to the camera, post the video, and if you educate, inspire, or you look cute, people are going to want to follow.

So easy tips.

Yeah, do one of those three things and people are going to be engaged in your content.

Yeah, I love it. That's dope. Cool. What else, um, what else do you want? I'll let you end on whatever note you want. If there's anything I didn't ask that you think would be valuable, or if you just want to give a message to people watching, either way.

What are you thinking? Building, recruiting, or hiring? 3 pillars. Which one?

Let's go, let's go system type stuff, like building. How do you scale something?

Cool. So I think when you're, when you're building an agency, it's important to have width and depth in your organization. And so I, I briefly mentioned this, but this is my fourth time rebuilding my agency. So one of the mistakes that I made very early on was you know, giving comp out for free, giving things out for free, and also, you know, only having one leg or maybe two legs. And that's just kind of what we were taught at the time. But when you're building your business, right, it's okay to help people out and, you know, put agents with someone that you feel like would train them a little bit better and make more sense with. But width and depth is how you're going to build a profitable, profitable business and also allow you to invest more into your business and also your agents. So that's my biggest thing is, and once you have your, your 5 to 10 legs, start learning how to manage and build those 5 to 10 legs.

Yeah.

And then that's how you're going to grow and scale because your goal is to learn how to replicate you, right? Because you can't be in 10 different places. So try to find your 5 to 10 legs and then develop those people strongly, and then start helping them build as well with agents, systems, things like that.

Yeah, I was taught have a starting 5, like a sport. Yeah, you know what I mean? I was like, ah, genius. I have my start, and then you got some players on the bench, so hence the 10. You know, I was like, oh, that's pretty dope. And then I had a little thought where some people use the term base shop, but you have some people that start hiring outside of just you hiring. I was like pretty competitive, so I always wanted my own direct-to-me group to be bigger than any of my individual legs. Yeah, that was just a challenge for myself because I never wanted them to go like— especially early, it's hard to, hard to do as you get bigger. Um, but you know, when I was doing $1 million, $2 million, $3 million a month, I was like I want to make sure that if, you know, Vanessa is doing X without her, my volume is doing more than her without her, you know. And it was just a competitive way for me, and it, and it kept me from— that was the width that I always continued to add, which even if someone did leave, it didn't affect me as much as if I just sat around and kind of tried to build depth and only work with one group or two groups. It's like, ah, It can put you in a sticky spot.

Well, that's important too because you want to have that outside like you're talking about because that is where most of your profitability is going to come and people don't understand that. You have to invest back in your business, right? You pay for admin, you pay for systems, you pay for things and if you don't have the money to pay for that, everything else, all the other teams are going to just— go down.

Okay.

Yeah, they're gonna go down. So investing, you know, 20, 30, 40% of your profit back into the business is so important, and you have to have that from your directs.

100%. I remember 2017, we were probably doing, I don't know, $400 grand a month, $400, $500 grand a month as a team, 40, 50 agents, basically all direct to me. So I was, I was making really good money. Um, I put like $450 grand into leads. I put like another $100 grand into like working on getting staff and, you know, I mean, over the course of the year and salaries and things like that. And then office. And I put like a well of multiple, multiple, multiple six figures, you mean $600, $700 grand into the business that year.

Wow.

But my income went from $600 the year before, and I spent 75% of it the next year. But my income tripled that year. I mean, went to almost $2 million. And it's like, from that concept of what you're saying, is teaching it over and over again and being willing to invest and stuff. And certainly now, as I'm coaching people, I'm like, I did, I did make mistakes during the year. I would have done it slightly differently. You know, I mean, I've learned some things from when I spent the money. I'm like, oh, I could have got away with investing a little less and been more effective. But I don't regret it because I learned a lot. You know, and it's made us wildly profitable since being, being willing to take that risk and bet on people and bet on myself. And, you know, um, without others, I couldn't— we couldn't be anywhere near where we're at. So at some point, you have— you don't have a choice, or you're gonna— you're gonna hit a ceiling.

Oh yeah, it's a write-off anyway, right? That's how I look at it. I'm like, okay, you know what, yeah, it's okay.

Yeah, I agree. You need those write-offs after a little while.

I'm like, you might as well spend the money on something. It better be your business.

So yeah, I love it. Dig it. Are you, um, are you coming to Atlanta to our event? I don't remember. I know you were coming to the last one. I don't remember if you said you're coming, and they're all good if you're not. I'm just shit curious.

I'm not too sure. I'll have to look at the dates again. Um, it's in February, right?

February 27th, 28th. Yeah, in my office. Johnwetmore.com/events. If you can make it, great. If not, no biggie.

Yeah, I'm going to an event Um, it's like the— some event in Charlotte with like speakers and stuff. I'm—

oh cool.

My goal this year is to try to go to more conferences and like networking events because I'm kind of like a homebody. Like I work from home, I'm virtual. So I kind of want to— and now that I live on the East Coast, I want to start kind of, you know, adventuring a little bit more. So my goal is to try maybe 2 to 3 events um, this year. So I'm going to Charlotte for that, but I would love to make it out. Um, I know you—

if it works for you, let me know.

You live by, uh, Marietta? Is that—

yeah, I actually live in Marietta.

Oh, okay.

My office is in Kennesaw, but I live in Marietta now.

Okay.

Which they're right, I'm on the line of both. I'm 2 minutes, I can be in either one. Um, but yeah, so any of y'all that are interested, again, johnwetmore.com/events. We got a ton of good people. I have some multi-seven-figure people come in. We have some people that are new just trying to figure out sales and need some help, and you know what I mean? So we'll have a wide range of people here, and if you make it cool— but keep doing the events. Those have been one of the most valuable things I've ever done in my career, and I meet so many people that give me such good insight, business advice, and relationships and mentors and things like that. So been super helpful in my world.

Relationships are everything, everything. So that's another piece of advice: relationships are everything.

100%. It's wild when you meet someone from there. At first you don't kind of know where it's going to go, but I've done this long enough to now I can look back on some of my favorite people in the business and I'm like, oh, I remember where we met at this event that just wildly happened to cross paths, you know. So it's cool following the stories, um, different relationships that you make over the, over the years. So keep killing it out there, girl. You're doing cool things, and if I can help with anything, certainly let me know. Me know. Otherwise, y'all that are watching, if you will, like it, share it, do all that jazz. Go follow her, she puts out some great content. We'll put all the links below for everything. Um, appreciate your time.

Thank you so much, John.

All right, y'all have a good one. Later.