This Telesales Phone Script Made Me $500,000 ft. Brian Turner | Ep57

Zach's birthday is today and they sent an old photo in our like manager's chat of him training.

Bro, I have a lot of his shit because I was with him when he was brand new. Look at this.

Crazy.

He was explaining how to like make $100 grand a year in this video. It's fucking hilarious. What up, y'all? John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Have Brian Turner today. Who's, uh, another young killer in the insurance space, dude. This, this industry is changing. I don't— I assume you see it. And, uh, oh yeah, you know, it's, uh, it's funny having watched the evolution of this sucker in the last decade plus. See, I'm like, there's a bunch of y'all younger than my kids killing it now. That's great.

Yeah, definitely, man. Thank you for having me on, John. I really appreciate it.

You got it, dude. Happy to, happy to share your story a little bit. And for me, it's always like, how can we help other people win? And right, can we make this seem and feel any easier than we understand it is, you know what I mean? It's like, yep, the longer I do this, the more I'm like so shocked how many people are amazed at how hard it is— how easy it is like to make money in the business and how much they overcomplicate it.

Especially now.

Yeah, I'm like, I don't know, in my world, dude, everyone kills it if they want to, right? You know, um, so intrigued, dude, to learn more. I don't know a ton. Obviously we talked for 9 seconds before this. And I've heard a lot. I've seen your name around. And, you know, by the time I hear about him, like, he must be killing it.

And, you know, appreciate that, man. Yeah, I've been blessed to be here and see kind of like the evolution from, first of all, the field days and the travel trips. And yeah, you know, just—

you've been around a minute too.

The dial days. Yeah, 4 years next month. So sick. It's, it's been the best decision that I've made and, um, really looked up to you in a lot of ways too, and Zach and everybody. Just excited to give back and share like kind of like my story, my experience, and help out in any way that I can.

You got a lot of killers teaching you, bro.

Yeah.

Why'd it take you 4 years, man?

I mean, I think it was just the personal excuses, to be completely blunt. It was just personally me. Yeah, I was holding myself back. I mean, We, when I first got into it, um, yeah, we were just kind of figuring things out. I looked at it as a job, you know. I didn't know that this was a business until I was here for, you know, a good 4, 5, 6 months. And then I was like, all right, these people are really building something, you know.

Yeah.

And even still, like, you know, just the immaturity, and I had to grow up a little bit because I was one of those young kids that didn't know how to like really lock in and decide, um, how I wanted it and how quickly I wanted it, right? So for me, I mean, when I first got in, I just, um, enjoyed the, the money a lot and was also able to give back to the family. And me and my wife got married and we were blessed to buy a house. So there was, there was a lot of things that, you know, we checked the box off with, but Um, I didn't take it as serious as I am now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How old were you when you got started?

20.

Sheesh.

Yeah, I was fresh out of college and it was like summertime, so I was like, all right, let me see if I can figure this thing out. And so first 6 months, like, I, I pretty much just like was up and down and I was shooting myself in the foot. And then, um, really was like, all right, if I want to see the same results these people are talking about, like I need to start dialing in my schedule.

How did you get in?

Kind of.

So, you know, who do you know or did you know?

So I actually knew Wiley Hawkins and went to school with him. And then one of my best friends who's my upline, Jonathan Scheele, he got in with Wiley and then he and I had a conversation. He's like, yeah, I mean, I had been off social media. He's like, yeah, I've been seeing the results here.

I was like, so you knew Wiley before, like when he was sleeping on floors and shit?

Yeah, yeah, we, we had like a class together back in— I was in like 7th grade, so I've known him.

Got it, so you've known him for a while.

Yeah, yeah, we go back a little bit, and it's, it's really cool to see how this thing has changed his life too and John's life.

He's killing it.

Oh yeah, it's amazing. I mean, we're exploding now, so just, uh, trying to see how many lives we can change along the way, honestly.

Yeah, that's dope. I remember when, uh, I remember when he first started, dude. He was, he was always telling the story about him and some roommates or something sleeping on an air mattress and stuff. I'm like, who is this crazy kid? I always liked him though, man.

It's amazing. Yeah, he's a really effective communicator. He knows like who he's talking to and he knows how to like bring people in and just really make them feel comfortable, you know?

Yeah, he is good at that.

Yeah.

So first 6 months up and down, what does that mean? Explain what that means in like your words, what does up and down look like financially, money, where are you struggling, et cetera?

Just mainly with my schedule. If I had a more consistent schedule, I would've been probably way better off my first 6 months, but you think so past finals for college while I was getting my license, got my license and I was like, all right, summer break, like time to, time to kick back and enjoy and enjoy this, the sunshine and everything. And so, because I live in Colorado and it's snowy and, you know, you're still living at home, like, did you go back with your parents?

Got it.

Yeah, yeah. So didn't have a lot of responsibilities, didn't have much on my plate. And so, uh, my why was, was pretty small and I was still developing it. So my first 2 months I was just in and out, maybe working like 3, 4 days a week, and then, you know, have some business that I submit. And then of course, you know, some of it would fall off and all right, I gotta get back to work. And so So I was just like doing myself dirty for the first like 2 months. And then, um, I started to like pay attention to what people were telling me. And my 3rd month in the business, I actually cracked $30K in the field, just like what people told me. So I just started to listen to not only what people were saying, but how they were saying it. And that's what I try to tell people when I bring them in, or any new agents, like it's not just about what people say, but the tonality and everything.

True.

And so I didn't have it figured all out from there though. Like I said, first 6 months, yeah, yeah, pretty rough. So then I kind of like fell back into some old habits and like still I was better about my schedule, but I still had a lot to learn.

Is that all the change was, getting to the 30? What were you— would you do the first 2 months? Would you issue the first 2 months roughly?

Probably like 10 and 15.

Okay, yeah, so double and triple, like, yeah.

So I had like I had a taste of it, but I hadn't quite like—

yeah, yeah, it wasn't consistent.

I was here.

Yeah, what, what made you get to the 30? Was it just leads and schedule, or did you get lucky?

No, I mean, I, I honestly think that it was compound effect of the trainings because I was paying attention and I was listening and absorbing things.

Sure.

So, uh, back when like Paul McClain was in the training, there was one video I listened to and it was like, boom, it clicked for me. And I had one day in the field where I wrote $8,000. Just everybody was showing up.

Which video?

Everybody was buying. It was the 8 Steps to—

I knew you were gonna say that was a good one, dude. Yeah, that's a good video.

Mortgage protection videos were great too. That taught me a ton when I started getting into the mortgage, but I couldn't get my hands on, you know, the mortgage mailers back then either. So just running final expense and internet leads. And yeah, I just— I started to actually like implement my training. Really was what it was.

Makes sense. Yeah, that's sick. So that was what year? 20?

21.

21. Okay. Yeah, so 21. Would you issue that year? Do you remember?

Uh, so I started halfway through. I think it was probably right around like 80. Okay, but not a lot. And actually, the other thing—

would you keep— how about that? Would you keep— do you remember?

Uh, I think it was about 60.

Okay.

Yeah, so I didn't have— because I didn't have any other expenses except for leads, right?

Yeah.

And I came into the business, um, with savings, significant savings, because I always growing up was pretty frugal with my money and didn't really blow it. So right when I started, I was able to start investing $1,000 a week in leads, and that helped me like kind of get through my learning curve quicker because my upline, John Scheele, he took like 6 months to crack $30K. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I had that little bit of extra cushion, plus not a lot of bills and stuff that I had to give out or pay back to.

So where, where were your parents? Where, where, what was their head at during that?

Um, I've asked them about it since they've seen like the change and everything and the results. Um, and they were, they were pretty supportive, I'd say for the most part. But I think everybody was a little skeptical of like, is this gonna work out? Or is he just gonna have to go back to school? And once I kind of started to get it down, which didn't take too, too terribly long, like they were like, okay, there's— this is something there. But what they were concerned about is like, all right, with the lead money that you're spending, like, are you going to be able to flip a profit every month?

Or like—

and I was like, yeah, always. Like, I'm betting on myself, so as long as I'm consistent, I'm gonna make sure that I see the results on, on the investment, you know.

That's sick.

And my parents, my dad, he's, he's been an engineer his whole life. So, but they also have real estate and stuff, so they understand like business and you got to spend money to make money a little bit. So they weren't like way out in left field, like, what are you doing? You're crazy. But everybody's got to see the money to like know that it's real, you know?

100%.

Yeah. So I love it. It was cool.

I love it. So then this year, this past year, '24, you did 4-something, 420, I think you said.

Yeah.

$420K.

Cool.

Would you, would you bring home, uh, right around, I'd say, $350K?

Okay. After, yeah, after most of the expenses. Are you talking net? Are you talking deposit right now?

I meant deposits.

Yeah, share what you want. I think it was right around like $350K. Yeah, yeah.

And you're obviously spending money to build.

Yes.

So for the naysayers who want to know what you kept, quote unquote profit, would— how's that look?

I think it was, um, I have to double check with my tax guy, but because he always knows the loopholes, right?

Well, yeah, see, it's like, it's like, what do you report to the IRS, or what's—

yeah, we get it, dude, we get it.

Yeah. How about this? What'd you spend on leads to make the $350,000?

Uh, right around like $80,000 to $90,000.

Yeah, you're netting a quarter million bucks.

Yeah.

And sure, if you can find a way to write stuff off, great. Like everybody tries 100%.

And we, we just like remodeled a property that, yeah, yeah. But so we put money into that on the side. But really, I mean, even after going through that, I'm like, there's no better investment than in the business. Yeah, there really is. Just because of the speed at which you can build something here that's going to turn a profit. You know, if you can get 10 agents and I'm on my way to start building more heavily. But that's, that's really where like I see the most value in putting my money into something like this.

Would the 2 years in between look like the 2 years? First year, we got your most recent year, so like '22, '23, were you up and down still? Were you mediocre? Like, would you— I know you didn't hit $400,000.

No. So 2023, I actually dove into IULs and started selling more like IUL business and everything because that was still when Zach was in the office. Yeah, and he was kind enough to let me start testing out the IUL leads that he was generating and basically just do a commission split with him. So that was, that was convenient for me to be able to learn without a lot of risk. So I started, and I really wanted to, I actually just reached out to somebody that was posting IUL deals in Slack to start learning them, and then I just got in contact with people.

Dude, were you on payroll for a minute too? Did you like work? Was that you? Who was that? Someone else worked for him for a minute too. Who the hell was that? I didn't— I was like, is that Brian? I don't remember who it was. Amanda will know. Amanda, remember there was someone— there was someone that was an agent that helped him do some recruiting stuff too, and I didn't know if that was you. Uh, I don't remember who it is, but I'm not too sure. Yeah, I'm gonna ask Amanda in a minute. Yeah, before we're done, she'll tell me. You'll know him. It was— it was for a while. I forget who it was though.

Yeah, but 2023 was like a big learning experience. Um, I think I did like with learning them and everything, probably like $360,000. Oh, shit. IUL, which was pretty solid.

Okay.

And then 2024 is my biggest year. So each year we're learning, we're getting, we're getting better. It's funny because I know a lot of people blow up with IUL business and everything, um, but for me, I actually had a bigger year even just sticking to the bread and butter. And the reason why I went back was because I really wanted to focus on what I felt like was the most scalable and is going to pay the agents quicker. So I kind of like reinvented myself again last year and just went back into the basics so that way I can scale something. And that's what I've been like trying to like work on.

Mortgage protection, final expense.

Yeah, we mainly work veteran leads right now.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, but same thing.

Yeah, I get it. That's a— it's for me, it's like, I like that move because I always— I'm like, I can sell other stuff. But like, why would I? I want to— I wanted to do what was completely duplicatable so I didn't have to keep doing it. Um, that's sick.

I love it.

So you've been making money for a good— go ahead.

One thing that Ronnie Salem like always says is one of the best things about his business, and obviously he's blown up, he hit MVP last year and everything, like, is it's an echo amongst everybody. So no matter who you talk to, you're going to always get the same answer. Yeah, and that stuck with me because if you, if you want to have effective communication with a large group of people, I think everybody should be on the same page. If somebody like starts crushing it and they want to explore like IULs, annuities, stuff like that, there is a lot obviously to, um, learn there and a lot of profitability in that as well. But I think for a new agent, for their first like 1 to 3 months minimum, it's really good for them to just learn the process on Final Expense or veteran leads, right? So that was something that always stuck with me from him. And I look up to him in a lot of ways. I've been trying to study him a lot because, I mean, he 100x'd his business. Yeah, he did in one year.

So what can you share about like what you've learned about sales and communicating with clients? And you've done both. You did in-home and obviously now telesales, right? So you understand both sides.

Yep.

But yeah, share some sales stuff, dude, whatever you want.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I'm leaving it up to you wide open.

Cool. So I would say like the biggest thing is you got to be able to take control. And the way that you take control in the most basic form is just to have good questions. If you can confidently ask people good questions about their situation, the sale is already going to be automatic because you understand where they're coming from. And they don't always really understand their situation too well. So you want to uncover that for them too, so that way they can, you know, be like, yeah, that is exactly where I'm at. Thanks for pointing that out in a respectful way. Right.

Yeah. So let's go over what do you— give some good questions because people are like, well, I do that. I ask questions. I'm like, was it a shitty one though? Yeah, because there are shitty ones, to be clear.

And I have a very curious tonality when I'm going through. Them too. So it's like, typically for the veterans, I'll just basically run through the initial question. It will be like, you know, were you just like most people that I helped out today, you just wanted to make sure that you had something to take care of the funeral expenses, or were you just like trying to leave a little extra behind? Yeah.

Yep.

All right, perfect. And then I like to get objections out of the way in the beginning. So, life insurance, do you currently have a life insurance policy set up, by the way, that 'You were just looking to add to or compare rates with or nothing just yet?' And then they'll tell you.

What if they go yes? I assume you have a way to handle the yes or the no.

Yeah, exactly. Both ways it's good.

Yep. Correct. So let's go down both paths.

Cool. So if you say yes, I'm gonna be like, 'Okay, perfect, John. And that policy that you got set up, was that in like the last 3 years or have you had that for like a while now?' I'd say I've had it 10 years. Okay, perfect. And then just out of curiosity, just because the insurance carriers ask on the application, do you know kind of roughly what they charge you a month on that?

$60.

Okay. And sometimes they say they don't know too, right?

More than whatever you want. Yeah, I agree.

I'll be like, okay, was it $60?

Especially the way you worded it, $100.

Yeah. So you just assume they know, and then sometimes they will throw it out, but a lot of times they don't. So for whenever they say, I don't know, I just throw out options. But let's say you say $60. I'm like, okay, perfect. And was that just like a policy to cover your basic funeral expenses for like $10,000 or $20,000?

Got it. Yep.

Yep. Okay, perfect. Um, so I'm assuming when you sent this request in, you were pretty much just hoping to add a little bit of coverage to that, make sure that you had enough to account for inflation, like most people I talk to, right?

Yep.

Okay, got it. And then, by the way, just out of curiosity, was there like any reason why you were looking into this now? Like, did you have a loved one that passed, diagnosis, or were you just like realizing that you're not getting any younger?

I love that you go there because most people want to just go like, oh, they said yes, let's go forward.

Well, yeah, that's the big problem with people that are still learning to develop the why. And I had to develop this in myself too. So I want to build up emergency emotion and a good understanding of their situation. Yeah, right.

Not tell stories from that question. I bet you probably get all kinds of—

yeah, yeah. The guy earlier that I closed was like, yeah, my brother actually passed away a month ago. He already had 2 mutual policies and he's like, I want to get another one just because of that. I was like, yeah, exactly. And then I'll also ask like, um, if they have If they didn't have coverage, let's say, I'll ask any reason why you hadn't gotten it taken care of. And then if they do, an easy one is always, you know, is this something that you've been thinking about for a little while now, just getting a little bit more? And then talking about like kind of where they're at in the process. Yeah, I've talked to 50 agents. Yeah, you know, I've been getting calls every day and I'm tired of this. I'm like, okay, I'm sorry, I said they send the amateurs out before me. Um, I'm the, I'm a senior underwriter here, so I'll be the one to help you get it set up correctly. 'But just so I understand your situation, kind of what we're looking to take care of, you said you had another policy for your funeral expenses. Do you know actually whether or not you want to be buried or cremated? Have you thought about that?' And then I get into logistics of how much coverage you might need, because I always want to focus on a needs basis, because then it's going to have sticky business. It's going to make sticky business, right? So, and then the last one that I'll really go through is, um, just do you have anything else that acts like insurance if you were to pass? IRAs, stocks, significant savings, or nothing just yet, or nothing now?

You tell me which way you want me to answer. You pick.

Uh, you could say, yeah, I do.

I got— sure, I got a little 401k.

Okay, perfect. So that 401k, obviously, um, now you're, you're retired like you said earlier, so Um, obviously that's going to be for your retirement, just to make sure, like, as things get more expensive, if your fixed income doesn't go up enough, you have a little bit of something to offset that inflation, right? But you do still want to make sure, you know, either way, there's just a little extra security, financial security, in place for your family if you were to pass. And by the way, on that note, who would be the beneficiary that would be responsible for picking up the pieces? Right? And then go into that. So just really understanding their situation. For me, I like to go right into the why right after I basically confirm a birthday, and then I'll go into setting structure with telling them what we're going to do with the process.

It's funny, it's like watching you put all the objections in little buckets before we get there. You know, it's like, oh, this is for that over there, this one's for this over there, and You know, it's very, very nicely placed questions. That's the part I think a lot of people miss. And even if they ask it, it's without the— because you're asking it, but you're kind of giving them the answer before you ask it. You know, you're like, hey, is it one of these things?

Right? Yeah, you're kind of assuming it because people don't— like, they're not rational thinkers most of the time, at least in the market that I deal with, uh, for general final expenses and stuff. They're usually not the most rational thinkers, and so I want to feed them some options and also always be just assuming the close from the very beginning. You know, when I'm saying these kinds of statements, I'm automatically building value in their mind as far as like, yeah, this is going to pay out X amount, but like, why is that important to your family, right?

Sure. So that's funny.

Get effing paid. Get effing paid.

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I remember like at the beginning, one of the things that helped me the most when you start asking questions, because I hated all the BS in the middle. I'm like, all the small— can we just skip all the BS and just get to what we're trying to get to?

Yeah.

So I used to try to figure out how to get there quicker. And when, when we started talking, going like, do you have insurance? Yes. I said all those things. And when you go no, dude, I learned to ask— my favorite way to ask it, I'd be like, huh, have you, have you just been procrastinating buying it, or are you too sick to get it?

That's a good dude.

And they would be like, nah, I ain't too sick, bro. And they would start defending, like, and basically being like, nah, dude, I'm just a procrastinator. They didn't want to be— they didn't want to fall in the too sick bucket. They chose the I'm a procrastinator button. And I'd be like, oh, so you're just finally ready to stop procrastinating? And then I would go, tell me what happened. And I'd get the story. That was story time for me. It was right after they told me they were procrastinating, you know what I mean? Oh, bro, that was That was my favorite way.

See, when I was new, I was really scared to ask those challenging questions because I'm— you're generally like a pretty kind person. I don't like confrontation very much, you know. So we do the personality test always with Sean and at the events and everything.

Sure.

That's the bucket I always fall in. So, um, I really had to learn how to just like do it in a strategic way to where it's just like, hey, you know, let me be real. And now I have the ability because obviously I've done thousands of presentations to be able to confront somebody like that and kind of call them on their situation, but also like make sure they're not like necessarily offended. But that is funny when you point stuff out like that. A lot of times they do want to like, like, oh no, I can do it, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, um, it was helpful. It was neat. I remember it's, it's funny, I can go back to the beginning and be like, oh dude, I learned how to ask questions too. I just stole them from other people and learned the timing of it. And the timing was the thing that changed it for me. When I got the timing down, it was like, oh, the rest of the shit's pretty easy, right? You know? And now I think the piece you're going to talk about now is like you said, now basically you just— I forget how you said it— set the stage, basically tell them what's going to happen. Like, here's how this goes, I assume, is next. I— so many people miss this piece.

Yeah, and this is a big thing that I started to implement when I, um, started like listening to more videos and Paul McClain video even touches on it. Like, you have to let them know, like, what you're gonna go through. So I'm like, um, there's a couple different ways that I do it, but one of the ways is like, okay, John, this is going to boil down to like two simple factors. Number one, your age, so you being, you know, 45 years young. And then number two, your health. So what we'll do is we'll run through just a couple basic health questions. Based on how you answer those and whatever's on the medical records, that's going to kind of determine who's going to give you the best rate and what the cost is going to be. Okay, makes sense. And then they're like, all right, cool. And then just, we're going to touch a little bit on the financial picture just to make sure everything's going to be comfortable. Most people I talk to, they are on a fixed income, so we will make sure that this is going to be something that's affordable because that's how these plans are designed. Okay, okay. And then they have an understanding, right? And then I jump into, all right, some discounts you may qualify for. This is actually one that Ronnie added to his script. So, are you a smoker or non-smoker? Oh yeah, I'm a non-smoker. All right, perfect. We'll get that discount applied. And then, do you bank with a military branch credit union? If you're talking to a VA lead or a veteran lead. Do you bank with a military branch credit union like USAA or Navy Federal? No, I don't. Okay, is it just a regular local bank? Yeah. Okay, what's the name of it? Yeah, and then I'll understand their financial, like, institution from the beginning, but it's, it's way before there's any pressure. Because sometimes when you wait till you're asking for the banking to get the name of the bank, they get all, like, on the backpedal, like a squirrely, done a good job. So you could, like, I don't have— suddenly in the beginning and make it sound like a discount. So in their mind, they're like, oh, okay. I'm like, all right, perfect, they're on the state discount list, you know. And then just move on to the health questions. And then touch on—

funny, the wording can get people to spill their guts.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah, when I was getting pushback, just another simple example, like questions. If I was getting pushback, like trying to book or even have a conversation, they already had it, I'm not interested, all that stuff, I'd be like, oh yeah, no problem. Hey, do you mind if I put some notes in the system so I stop calling you?

Yeah.

And then I would be like, what do you have? How much is it? When I said notes in the system, they can tell me everything. Yeah, you know, it's just positioning of it.

Exactly. Especially when you're talking about taking them off from getting calls. Hell yeah.

Oh yeah, 100%. Oh, I'd get all the info.

So many calls.

Yeah, that's funny, dude. I love it. Okay, cool. So after you touch on the banking stuff, anything else from there that you, um, you tell them like, hey, you're gonna pick a plan and we're gonna get it in place today? You doing all that jazz too?

Yeah, so I'll figure out, you know, what the plan's gonna be, and then who's like most likely to give you approval, what's gonna be the cost. And then I'll tell them like, at the end of the day, like, there's no final decision, especially when I'm doing a one-legged appointment. So wife's not there, I'm just talking to the spouse. I like say it like probably 4 times with the one-leggeds because they always in the back of the mind are like, oh, I'm gonna have to talk to my wife about it. Sure. So I'll literally just say it like multiple times throughout the presentation. Can't make a final decision because you do got to get approved, and also because, you know, ultimately you can make changes. So you can increase or decrease your coverage after we talk today. The real goal of, you know, the call today is just to make sure we get at least the bare minimum that makes sense for what you need. Does that make sense? Like, yeah. All right, so I'm gonna jump into the health questions here real quick. Bam, knock those out. Income What would you say you roughly bring in, just to the ballpark? What do you typically have left over? And again, you said you didn't have anything else, or you said you did have a 401k, but that was for taking care of your retirement, making sure you had a little nest egg or a rainy day fund, right? So that's obviously not going to be for taking care of your wife after you're gone solely, and we wanted to make sure we had a little bit extra just to help her out or make sure it was enough to take care of the final expenses, right? Yeah. All right, perfect. So then I go for it. Yeah, go ahead.

What are you, what are you looking for? The way you worded, like, what's your income, your expenses, and what do you have left at the end, right? That's obviously intentional.

Yeah.

So how much, how much do you have to like stop there and deal with shit? Like when they're like, I got 6 cents left, I got no money. Like, do you get that frequently or is it most, you know what I'm saying? Like, how do you versus, I think obviously at the end it's usually BS.

Right.

You know, so I'm curious, do you get it way less or do you just handle it there in a different way when you do get it?

Like if they start telling you they're broke at that stage, if they start telling me they're broke, to be honest, they usually say that in the beginning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So if they're going to tell me that in the beginning, I'll usually try to handle it. But let's say they don't, which does happen. Like, honestly, like, I don't have much left over. But everybody seems to at least have a little bit. So yeah, I just put it in buckets. I'm like, all right, so do you think— or ranges— do you have like $100 to $200 left over, $200 to $300, $300 to $500, more than $500, depending on how much they say. If they say they have $8,000, I'm like, all right, $200 to $300, $300 to $500, $500 or more. Um, but if they do say that they're like getting like $1,200 a month and then a little bit from the VA and they're pretty broke. I'll be like, all right, do you maybe have like right around $100 left over? No, no, no, I'm scraping by every month. Okay, do you think that if we were to be able to find something to help out your family for $60 or less, like would that be something that you could swing? No, no, it's— that's going to be too high. Okay, what about like maybe $40 or less? Like, is that going to be affordable? Because like, I don't need you to get this, but I do want to make sure it's something you can keep. And then they'll be like no or yes. So what I'll do is I'll just down close them on price right there, and I'll just narrow it down. If it ends up being $30 or less a month, then I'll try and like get them to understand like, you know, the importance of it and everything. But I'll at least have an understanding going into the quotes, like what we're looking at and if it's even going to be an option.

Yeah, I love it.

And if they can't, they can't, and that's okay. Yeah, yeah, family.

Well, Well, it's funny though, like, and I— this is the piece I want people to understand that don't have this figured out. Everyone wants to know how to overcome objections and what product can I write for all the broke people. I'm like, dude, if you set this up right, they're significantly less broke than they tell you they are.

That's the truth.

Yeah, you know. Yeah, but you, you don't do it right at the— at, at— during, during the process. It's such an easy out that why would they not say that? And you're not— and most agents that y'all are watching, most of y'all gonna fold and be like, yeah, they're broke, I knew it, and they're gonna bail. Versus setting it up properly. And as you know, this is the piece a lot of people are missing. The pricing is the leverage.

Yeah.

So you, you do it before pricing, you get real info. You do it after pricing, you may as well not believe anything that comes out of their mouth. Like, who cares at that point?

Because they get really emotional once they see the options.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're like, oh man, can I do this or that? So I'm big on objection prevention and trying to get in front of stuff because that's the best way to like overcome objections is just remove them. So yeah, if they are telling me that they're broke, like I said, normally for me, because the way I handle my process, it's in the beginning. If it is—

you know it quick.

Uh, yeah, I'm gonna deal with it quick if they are truly broke. Like, I truly don't want them to like be struggling more Yeah. So I'm going to challenge them maybe 2 or 3 times, and then I'm going to just call it and go on to the next person.

Yeah, man, that's the mistake most make is they don't challenge them and they give them pricing and they spend 45 minutes with them and then they're mad at the end.

Right. And I've been there.

I've done it too, bro. Shit. I'd be like hour and a half. Like, yo, wait, what?

Especially when we were in the field and we were driving around, I was like, oh man. Hour late for my next one and I have to drive 20 minutes. Like, what am I doing?

So not giving pricing and being done in 6 minutes to me is a win.

Yeah, me too. Absolutely. I'm gonna move on to the next person that really needs it. So I love it, dude.

That's badass. I love it. Cool. Anything else you want to add to that process or anything ending or anything you do after that you think is important?

Yeah, I think it's just key to like really know the ins and outs of your business when it comes to at least like selling. Like, if you're going to sell at a high level, you should know the end from the beginning. So you should know everything that you're going to need to ask them for, ask them little questions along the way, and, um, how to get in front of objections. And a lot of times that, honestly, for me, it just came by experience and doing it and failing forward on my on my face multiple times. But, um, one of the key things is really just what I said earlier with letting them know before I show the numbers, again, there's no final decision. We have to get approved, and you can make changes to it, um, after you get your policy, or even if you make a payment, you can still make changes. So you're not locked in today, okay, John? So I'm gonna go over how the packages work, and I used to spend a lot of time explaining every little bell and whistle on the policy. And now, because I know how to handle the process so well, all I tell them is it's going to be immediate coverage, it's going to be a locked-in price, so it'll never go up in cost, and it's going to be, you know, a permanent policy for like an out-of-pocket life, right? And then, or an IUL. And then I'm like, you got those? And I don't even have them write it down. I used to have them write it down and everything, and I'd be on the phone for an hour every call.

Hell yeah.

Any little areas where I can make my process more efficient, I try to.

Yeah.

Um, so I started doing that, and then I give them the quotes. When we do vets, we just bronze, silver, and gold for the 3 options. And then again, before I do the power question, I'm like, all right, again, it's not a final decision, but if we were to be approved, which one makes the most sense for you?

Yeah.

And then just shut up.

That's it, that's it.

Yeah, because once they pick a plan, you got the close, right?

Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's funny, like, um, it says, what do you think about the balance between— because you said you should know your shit, which I agree. Yeah, but also like day one, week one, it's kind of impossible, you know what I mean? Like, how do you balance that with new— as obviously you're building, so we're going to kind of use this to transition into the building side. It's like, how do you go about balance. I was talking— the reason I asked this, a lot of people overcomplicate this piece. And I had a— I got an agent I'm working with, he's getting started, and he's a very analytical dude. And he's like, what are the renewals on this one random product? And what happens if a guy 7 deep on a Thursday sells this product? And what's my re— just overanalyzing all the pieces, right?

Yep.

And, uh, you know, and so he's asking me questions, but then he's asking another dude in the group questions. The the same question. So he sent it to both of us.

Yeah.

So once I found out, now not only do I have to answer his question, I have to train this dude on how to answer the question so it's the same, right? Because this dude wants to give him all the analytical answers.

Yeah.

And I'm like, nah, bro, that ain't gonna help him. You know what I mean? So it's like, my question to you is like, how do you balance getting people like understanding they have to learn this shit but also you ain't gonna learn it before you go out. It's just— it's not gonna happen, you know?

There's a way out. It is a challenge, um, depending on obviously like the type of person. Like Sean always talks about, like, you have to understand that different personalities learn differently.

Yeah.

Um, I'm still in the process of trying to figure that out, but I will say, like, for me, um, I try to bite my tongue as much as possible so I don't overwhelm swell them or like fire hose them with too much information.

Yeah.

And really apply the less is more like mindset. So when they start asking about product knowledge and like all the extra stuff, I'm like, right now what we need to focus on is getting down your tonality. So I'm like, if it's week 1, let's just focus on your tonality. You can read, so you know how to like read the script here. You should be practicing it. But like you can read, so let's, let's get that down first. And then the next week we'll work on like the intro objections, and I'll tell them that we're going to go through that next week. And then the week after that, then we'll talk about like how to build the why effectively. And then by week 4, we're going to go over closing objections, and you're going to have everything down that you need to know. But for today, like just to make sure that you can actually take action and not have you you know, over-analysis paralysis. Let's just focus on making sure the tonality is dialed in and then we'll move on to phase 2. Smart.

I like it.

So that's a good way to do it.

So it gives them some clarity, gives them some comfort, and it's no different than how you explain the process to the client.

Yeah. Yeah. They got to know like what to expect. And I used to just tell them all the analytical answers and it ate up a lot of time. Right. So now I just try to make sure that I'm not over- overwhelming them too, because that's where I've failed a lot. And people have, you know, probably left the business because of some of the mistakes that I've made too, right?

Sure.

So yeah, I think with the right people, um, they will get that. Yeah, yeah, it's true.

Yeah, it's, it's a funny balance learning it, dude. It's like always trying to word it in a way that goes like, oh, oh, that's it? I'm like, yeah, that, that's it, dude. It's not any more complicated.

You know? Yeah, exactly.

That helped me a lot because I used to be the answer guy. I'd give all the answers because I think you should know them too. So now I'm like, right, well, the reality is even if I gave them to you, like, I could give you the perfect script. What's the chances that you— I give it to you right now— what's the chances you can say it perfectly 100 times tomorrow? Dude, everyone's like zero. I'm like, okay, so why are we trying? Yeah, so I've learned to now speak to people about knocking out their first 100 appointments. Yeah, I mean, it's like, just get your 100 appointments, dude. And, you know, during it, we'll learn these little things along the way. But right now, like, how can you drag out your 100 6 months? There's gonna be a different game than if you knock out your first 100 in a few weeks, right?

Right. That's always been what we've been taught. Yeah, get through your first 100 presentations and you're gonna know like to the numbers, and you're gonna know like pretty much all the ins and outs of the selling side. That's true.

Yeah, it gets a lot— it gets a lot easier when you have some clarity. All the, all the like details don't make any sense when you don't even know where you're at in the appointment.

It's like, yeah, there's so many different people that we're talking to that have different answers, but they're all actually boiling down to like the same 5.

They really are. Yeah, yeah, it's like I keep trying to go like, how do I deliver this exact same message different? Oh, I just tell a new story and give a new analogy, but it's the same shit.

Yep.

You know, um, yeah, I used to use— I used to use Deb all the time with that when she was first going to school. I'm like, yeah, yo, it'd be like her wanting to be able to stick a needle in someone's back today, like she's been in school 3 weeks. At the time she wanted to do, uh, what do you call that, um, anesthesiologist or whatever. Yeah, so early on that was the plan. And I was like, you know, so we've, we, we've used Zach's wife as examples forever because she was in school for felt like a decade.

I know, dude, she— I remember him always like talking about like their, their little scenarios, just like the process of becoming a doctor and how it takes 12 years and you're gonna make X amount too. Like, how do you expect if she's gonna go to school for for 12 years and start making a really good salary that way that you're going to figure out this in 2 weeks. You're not. You just have to go through the process and then things are going to start to click and fall in place, right?

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, that's good shit, dude. I actually had a question for you on building.

Let's go.

So I remember I was watching a video a couple of months back and you were talking about how— I don't remember if it was like the first 2 years— correct me on the timeline if I'm wrong— or the first year, but you're like, first year I was at, you know, production of $50K and I had one agent and it was me. And I thought that was so funny. And obviously you built something really massive now. Um, what do you think like helped you learn how to ascend reps when you first started like seeing results from the people that you were bringing in?

Claire, what do you mean by ascend reps? Clarify what you mean.

Uh, getting them to where they're producing consistently, pushing them 30, 40K a month.

Yeah, yeah, pushing them. Got it, cool. So yeah, so that quote, when I talk about that— so get this, I actually got my license in 2010.

Okay, okay.

I didn't sell my first policy till 2012.

Okay, got it.

I was part-time till through 2013. FFL started at the end of '13. All of 2014 I sold like 170-something Issue 170-something. And at the, at the end of 20— in the first 2 years in the business, dude, I did 600 interviews.

That's what it was.

Yeah. So between mid-2012 and the end of 2014, right, so just over 2 years, I did like 600 interviews, bro. And it was still just me.

Wow.

Now I hired some people, you know, the year I had 175, dude. Team volume for the year, $180,000.

Dang.

So like the 5 people I had during the year did $5,000 combined for the year, you know what I mean? Like they'd sell a policy and quit, sell a policy and quit, sell. It was just that for the first couple years, dude. I was trying, bro. I just could not fucking keep anyone.

It was different too, for sure.

Like, yeah, I mean, it's certainly a different game, but nonetheless, it's, it's still— I was like making a lot of mistakes, dude. So I think the biggest things for me was when I started producing at a high level on my own, I was really able to start teaching it from a, from a, from an angle of experience of how to get out of a hole, because I had no money either, you know, right? And so explaining how to get out of the hole, I could explain because I had to do it. Calling old leads, triple dialing, just the bullshit grunt work I had to do. And I made it to a point where I was then putting $40K a month in my account just without overrides, just me selling, right? You know, so being able to explain that journey from the standpoint of someone who had excuses, who dicked around for 2 years, who was bad, had a bad attitude, had poor— you talked about tone— I had poor tone with every human I ever interacted with, you know. So, and I, I wasn't— I wasn't— I was kind of stubborn on who I was as a person, the way I communicated. You know, and I had, I had a, I had Mike, who I don't know if you remember, Kilomet, right? I assume you remember the name. He was my closest mentor. He, he one day was like trying to explain it to me, dude. He's like, you have no bedside manner. That was his version. And I said, just like I asked you about that ascend thing, I'm like, I don't know what that means exactly. You saying like I'm an asshole? And he was like, yes, you, you make people feel poorly after they're done talking to you. And I was like, huh? So I didn't understand that. And he gave me a book to read, um, John Maxwell's, um, Five Levels of Leadership.

Yep.

And it's the, the concept of the book is how people view you. So your thoughts are out of the equation. Does that make sense? It's just how people view me, and everyone's going to view me differently based on our interactions and our relationship and who I am and all this stuff, right? Right. And when I understood that, I was like, oh, so this is a lot like sales, that I have to be intentional when I speak to people to get a message across the right way so they feel a certain way, so they like and trust me, want to do business with me. It's the same thing. And it was like, when that clicked, I was like, oh, so I figured that out in the sales side. That's how I started being able to sell a lot. And the very, like, strategic sales videos I have out, it's like the line of questioning was so intentional because I was trying to produce a result, whether that was stop them from being pissed off or stop them from giving me objections or fall in line and agree with the things I was saying. This is for that. And then, like everyone else, I write, you're this, and all the buckets you did, all that was super intentional to get a said result. We're literally controlling the client's behaviors and responses and their tonality. That's all controlled.

It is, right?

And I was like, that's not just sales, that's communication, and that's people. If you're an insurance agent and you feel like you're stuck, you've hit a wall, you're trying to figure out sales strategies, the scripts to use, how to get like off the ground and get to that top of the leaderboard type status. I have a course that I've put out, super affordable. I'm getting a ton of great feedback from people every day on the strategies they've learned and been able to implement, from goal setting to sales techniques to calendar scheduling— everything you would need to get your business off the ground and get running quickly. jwcourse.com, click the link below and get in there today, right? And then Sean taught me So Sean, Sean gives a lot of analogies naturally, right? You see him give them well, and I do too. But I didn't, I didn't know that game early on. And I remember around this time I was working with him directly and he was explaining something to me and he used some crazy analogy. I was bitching about a bad day and he asked me if I was near a hospital and he goes to go drive into the hospital and the emergency room ward and then call me or go to the cancer ward and then call me back and let me know how your day's going. And I was like, I said, bro, how do you, how do you come up with these analogies? And he goes, I just pay attention, brother, everywhere in life. And he fucking hangs up. And I was like, all right. So I just started paying attention a little bit more, right? So the combination of the book and Mike, and then the combination of Sean telling me analogies, because he was doing them to me to get me to think different. And I'm like, all right, there's something here. So I started practicing that, dude.

Right, right.

And so to go back to your question, like, how do I get people to do more reps? I break down their time first, right? So I'm like, hey, you want to win, dude. Hey, clear as day, you want to win, but you're not winning. Can we, can we go over why we think we're there? And I go, dude, I just, I have some questions. Help me understand your numbers a little bit so I can point you in the right direction. Now I know full well I'm about to blast this dude on his shitty numbers. But I can't start there. I have to get there. I want to get him there.

Paint the picture.

Yeah, dude, I want him to follow me down this road. I don't want a fucking roadblock in like, ah, you wouldn't walk into a sales situation like, hey, dipshit, you have no insurance, you need to get some. You know what I mean? We ease into it.

Yeah.

I'm like, dude, just help me understand. I'll give you some advice. If you tell me these things, I can tell you exactly what I think is wrong. And I go through phone calls, presentations, recruiting calls. And I just do the math on those. Here's how many minutes dialing, here's how many minutes presenting, here's how many minutes recruiting. And I ignore all the other noise. You know what I mean? I'm like, those are the— for me, I'm like, I— and I tell the story about how I changed. And I made sure those, those 3 things I was, I was using trainings and studying product and flipping through my leads and asking people. I was counting that as work. In my head. I'm sure you were too. Yeah, you know, and the big change for me— and I've been timed in different jobs before, like literally timed. I've had a warehouse job and a call center job where everything was tracked and timed. So I'm like, well, in that space, all they cared about in the warehouse, for instance, was how many boxes I put in a truck per hour. That's all they cared about. And if I didn't meet a certain criteria for 8 hours a day, I got fired. Yeah, so I was like, what if I create that same criteria here? And that criteria became phone calls, present— presentations, and recruiting calls. Yeah, all the other stuff was like me going to school to get better, or me working overtime to earn more money. But my 40 hours, I had to do in those 3 things, right? And so I explained that for me first. That's how I did— it's just like you going, hey, with all the other clients I sat with today, it's the same concept. It gets them going like, oh, that's normal. So I create new normal and then I go, all right, so let's go through your numbers. You said you're doing 8 presentations a week, 45 minutes each. So that's like 6 hours. You're doing a couple hundred phone calls at a minute each. So that's another 4 hours. You don't do any recruiting. So we're 10 hours in this moneymaking thing, this machine that creates money. You're only spending 10 hours on that machine. The goal will be how do we get you to 40 on that machine? All the other stuff, great, keep doing it, but you gotta do 40 here or I don't know how to guide you to winning. Does it make sense? I'd be like, I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to make you win with that little— I, I tried it, it didn't work. Yeah, so how— what do we got to do to get you here? Now it's just schedule and money, and I can take money away. Because I can do it with any lead, right? Does it make sense? So I get them to see the, the— I get them to see the, the hours they're spending in the right area in a different way than they've looked at it before.

Yep, right.

And then I'm like, well, dude— and again, you can do the math and see a guy that's like, if you took your first year, $80 grand, and we broke down your time, now I can go— no different than you do with insurance. If someone's like, oh, I got, I got $100 grand You're like, what do you make a year? Or they're like, I got $250 grand. Let's give them a big one. I have $250 grand. Well, what do you make? $80 grand. Oh, so you only got 4 years of insurance. Got it. I see why you need help. Does that make sense? It's making it seem like it's not enough because it's not. And so when they go through that, I go like, oh bro. And they're doing the math, so they're discovering the 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 hours with me.

Yep.

And I'm like, well, bro, I mean, like, yeah. And I— now I, now I just use analogies. I'm like, yo, let's pretend if you got kids— I can come up with anything— you got kids in baseball and he's taking 7 ground balls a week and is complaining that he's not as good as the guy at shortstop who's the stud athlete, right? Do you think the stud athlete's probably taking more reps than your son, right? Well, yeah. Well, what would you tell your son if he's complaining about his, his lack of being the number one hitter in baseball, or he keeps missing ball? What would you tell him?

You got to get more activity. You got to do more reps.

Do they say it with everything? I can be like, hey, if you want to learn how to— if you're right-handed or left-handed, you like— you, you righty or lefty?

I'm right.

All right, let's pretend you want to learn how to dribble a basketball left-handed.

Yeah.

Okay, how many videos can you watch that'll help you get better at it?

I mean, probably none. I mean, how do you, how do you get better at it? You got to do it.

Okay, now if you dribble left-handed 1 hour a day or 8 hours a day, which one's going to make you better faster?

8 hours a day.

Okay, so do you really think that's any different with insurance, dude?

No.

Okay, so you're choosing to spend 1 hour a day instead of 8 hours a day on the shit that matters. You're watching how how to dribble a basketball YouTube videos, you're not actually dribbling the basketball, right? You know what I'm saying? And I can, I can ease into it like that. And then they're like, oh. And I'm like, dude, I fell into it too, bro. Yeah, I just create a path. And now, so then I get willing, I get understanding first.

Yeah.

Then I go, all right, now that you understand it, are you willing to do more? Are you willing to— if, if I can show you how to run more appointments and make more phone calls, will you do it? Yes, dude. Now I just make a path, bro. And the path, the only variance in the path is a little bit of willingness and like belief in themselves, but mostly money.

You know what I mean?

So it's like if they're in a different financial position, I gotta make the path. Like I told a dude yesterday, he has literally no money and his— at the end result, he had to go around locally and he, he doesn't do exactly what we do. He's in the insurance space. There's someone who reached out for help. And, um, so his deal is he's gonna go— he was going— he was doing social media 2 days a week, and that was really it, trying to generate business. I'm like, could you go live every day? Yeah, like live. Can you go live every— he's like, yeah. I'm like, all right, why don't you go live every day? Why do you do 2 days instead of 7? Like Domino's, imagine if they only opened 2 days instead of 7. Did they sell less pizza? He's like, well, yeah. I'm like, okay, so now you get to choose. Do you want to be closed 5 days a week? That doesn't seem to make sense, right? So now he's going to go live every day on social, and we talked about, uh, networking meetings in his local area. He lives in Metro Dallas. I'm like, you have A, B, and C meetings? He's like, yeah. I'm like, why don't you go to them and introduce yourself as the insurance guy, right? It doesn't— again, he's not a lead-based guy. He doesn't do what we do. Okay, so for him it was that.

Yeah.

In a different situation, it could be like, I— you got old leads that have never picked up. Okay, let's attack those. Hey, I got old leads that have never picked up. Let's attack those. Hey, you can buy 50-cent leads. I can always create the plan. But for me, I want— I want the understanding first, the acceptance, then the willingness, and then execute the plan. You know what I mean?

Get the understanding. So I know they used to have the like, uh, dial tracker and everything. And, um, did you have your agents like follow that like religiously, or—

oh bro, yes. Oh dude, I— bro, they reported everything to me.

A better job of is tracking the numbers. Like, that's what I learned. I was at the Millionaire Mastermind in Florida. Yeah, buddy. Again with Sean, and that's something that he really like, um—

yeah, so if you go to, um, numbers, everyone has a dial tracker, right? I'm sure you have a million of them, but if you go to— if you want, you can just steal what I do. Johnwetmore.com/tracker.

Okay.

It's actually an Excel sheet you can download, and what I would do is have people track it daily but then put it in the sheet every week. Now, when I was building the agency, I created a little form and they would just— we'd do two things. They'd post in our social groups. Yeah, y'all use whatever you use today to communicate post-sales.

Right.

Well, on, on Thursdays, everyone knew to post their weekly numbers, so my staff would gather those, collect them, and put them in a sheet. And then as it got bigger, I created a form, and I'm like, yo, everyone submit your numbers. And they would create the form, it'd go to a sheet, and we'd track it. And not only would I look at it that week, dude, I tracked it long term, right? And one of my favorite things to do, bro, was I would take the leaderboard and I would compare appointments with issue paid, right? And I would figure out what people's average was every time they booked an appointment, what they issued.

Yeah.

Okay. And roughly the number is about $300 an appointment if you put everyone in a bucket, right?

Right.

And so when I— and I'll use Zach, real-world examples. Easton used to do this too. Zach would run 40 appointments a week. Right? And he'd issue $10,000, $15,000 a week. That was, that was his number. And so like, watch, we'll do it now. I, I'd run his stuff. So he'd be, say, let's go $12,000 divided by 40. So look, dude, literally, I mean, you can't make it up. Does that make sense? $12,000, 40 appointments. So, right, so I'd run his and he'd be like $300 an appointment. I remember sometimes Zach would be like $280 appointment. But he'd be at the top because he was always selling the most. And then I'd do the, the same average for someone down low that was running, say, I don't know, 12 appointments a week. Yeah, but they might issue— I don't know, I, I could do the math— they might issue a few grand a week, whatever the— 4 grand, whatever the number was, right? It'd be lower, but their average would be like 380. And I'd be like, I'd be like, yo Brian, check this out bro, I know we talked about the reps and stuff like this. You see Zach at the top, right? Dude, $12K a week, everyone wants to be fucking Swierdowski, who doesn't? Yeah, his average is only $280 an appointment, yours is $380 an appointment, so you're actually better at sales than Zach is, but look how many appointments he runs. And I'd show his appointments and then I would do their average times his appointments.

Yep.

I'd go, if you— $380, if you ran— and then, right, and then I do it here, and I go, all right, $380 times 40, and I'd be like, if you did it, you'd write $15 grand.

Yep.

And I would show them the math on their average. That was one of the most powerful things I did, dude. I shared it every week on my team leaderboard, on my team call. and I would, I would take the leaderboard and I'd show the top half. I'd break it right in the middle. Top half of leaderboard, bottom half of leaderboard. And I'd show the average appointments. And every week, dude, top half, they'd average 20 plus. Bottom half, under 8, under 10. Every fucking week, dude. And I would just keep sharing it and keep sharing it and keep sharing. I'm like, here's the magic.

Yeah.

This is the fucking magic. Because everyone in there says something different. They all have different personalities, different lead spend, different backgrounds. Final expense, mortgage, IUL. They're good at annuities, they're bad at annuities. Everyone was in the bucket. Yeah, I mean, so when I broke it down to averages, dude, and I would just compare to the guy at the top of leaderboard and I'm like, dude, and I'd look at my numbers, I'm like, I wasn't that good either. I had a 40% fucking close ratio. Yeah, does it make sense? But I scheduled 1,500 appointments, dude. Knocked down $460K with a 40% close ratio. You know what I mean?

That's the truth.

Yeah, I also didn't show pricing to everyone, right? Does it make sense? If I, if I, if I scheduled 10, I'm closing 4, but I probably didn't show pricing to damn 4 or 5 of them, right?

Man, I can sit with a couple too, correct?

Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely— yeah, I'm definitely getting 25+ no-showing me in the field. It'd be even worse today in, oh, you know. But that, that was it, dude, when I— so it's kind of that combination of that, and I just got really good at that little cycle of like getting them to see it and then showing it real time all the time. And then what would happen is you'd buy in, you'd be like, I'm in. And I would show you how to run the 40 appointments. Sometimes I would help them with leads if I had to. If I got— if I knew the guy was going to do it, I'd be like, I'll help you one time, give you a shitload of leads, and then teach you to reinvest. I wasn't going to keep buying leads, right? Right. I'd get you to do it, you'd kill it that week, you'd Your volume go through the roof. Now I got to make sure you invest the right way after. So I got, I got to stay there. But then you'd be on the call this week. I'd be like, look, Brian listened last week. He saw what I did with Zach and the averages. He ran it and this week he ran 38 appointments. Here's his numbers. Fucking worked for him too. Well, and I would just every week it was that it was just always that.

That's good.

And that, that's still to this day is how I teach it because I'm like, I can teach all the stuff you just taught. Yeah, but fair to say, dude, if someone's making 42 phone calls a day, none of this shit works, right? You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I'm like, and that became the concept of the whole, like, the whole book is like, do more now, we'll worry about just get better later. Right now it's like, do more of it. Learning over earning, correct? Yeah. And so I just had to learn how to deliver it. And the biggest— I'll end with this, dude. When I, again, I go from field So a lot of language I use is field sales. Yeah, but same concept with what you do. Yeah, I'm in a house, you're on a presentation, you're on, right? Something turns on like, I turn on, I got this machine has to follow these steps.

Yeah.

And then we leave presentation or we leave the house, we turn off and then we pick up the phone and we call agents. Like, the problem was I turned off.

Mm, yeah, that's good.

No, does it make sense? I gotta stay on that, that, that thing we do has to stay on, you know. And the level of intentionality, man, changed. And it— I was like a superpower, dude, to get people— I want to give people that light bulb moment and ask the right questions and leading questions. And no different— hey dude, I assume, bro, if you could run 40 appointments, you'd probably do what Zach does, right? Who's gonna say no? Like, does that make sense?

Yeah, results are gonna ultimately just empower people to be like, 100%, dude, if Zach can do it, like, I can.

Correct.

You know, or at least the next guy. Next.

And the deeper— so when I do it, it, it only has so much buy-in. I'm the guy that I'm supposed to do it. Like, you're supposed— for the guys you hire, you're supposed to do it. They don't give a shit what you're doing after a little while. There's only so many times you can say it. Right? But then when you go, yo, Zach did it too, people are like, that kid? Wait, what? There was a stage when Zach wasn't Zach, right? Does that make sense? He's just the fucking new kid around, right? So then people are like, oh damn. And then someone else buys in more to Zach than they did to me, right? Because they're like, well, John's supposed to do it, but Zach too? Right? And then a guy like Easton goes like, oh, Zach can do— oh well, I can do it. Then Easton does it. Now a guy like Calvin's like, yo, Easton too? Does that make sense? It just—

yeah.

And you, you create this waterfall of it, and now we just have this— I mean, thousands of agents that have killed it. I can't even keep up with how many agents do over a quarter million bucks now. I have no idea. It's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

Yeah.

You know, but I remember early on paying attention to it, and my goal was how many Hall of Fame producers can I help create, right? And it was all based— and I wanted to create VPs. So mine was Hall of Fame producers and VPs. Hall of Fame producers, field sales, 30 appointments a week was the lingo, right? Today's world, 40, 50, whatever you want to call it, right? 10 a day, it's kind of what I hear the norm is, 10, 12 a day, whatever. Yep, right. But you want to build, become VP, 30 appointments, field sales, 30 recruiting calls. So we had like a 30-30 club. So if you want to do both, that's how you get in— 30 and 30. You know, that's good. Again, today I tweaked the numbers a little bit just because telesales and the fall-off and the no-shows and shit, like, it'd be a little bit higher telesales number. But the concept was create standards. That's what the things people say they want.

Yeah. So with you having an effective ability to paint the picture for people and tie it to the numbers. Yeah, that becomes a standard, correct? And then people are like, oh, that's the standard in order to see these results. And the numbers aren't going to lie because the results are right in front of my face. So if I want to do that, I want to do what Zach's doing, then I have to start—

you have to do more call.

And that's where you— when you break it down, that's the simplest way to— going back to your question about the over-analytical agent or somebody that needs to know everything. It's like, just dial. Yeah, I know the script a little bit, dude. Learn every day, but like, just dial. Once you start to dial more, you're going to start to see the numbers. And that's— yeah, like, Zach always, always spoke on that, like, activity over like necessarily just the deposits or the commission.

Correct.

Activity is where it's all going to come from anyways.

Yeah, I mean, you know baseball, I assume. You understand baseball? I think batting average in baseball. You do it long enough, dude, it don't matter if you go 5 for 5 or 0 for 5, your average ain't gonna change at the end of the year at all. Yeah, just, you know what I mean, right? You get, I don't know, 500 at-bats, bro, you ain't moving the average on a Tuesday, right? Does it make sense? And the same concept here, dude. You go out and, yeah, you know, in 3, 4 months and see 500 people you're gonna know you're at— you're gonna— you, you can literally predict your revenue, right? When you— but when you go see 30 people a month, like, ah, I just wish more people would be honest about it. So for me, I was like, here's the standard to do good. If you do less than that, I'm no longer mad because I'm painting such a clear picture. If you do less than that, if you keep doing what you're doing 12 appointments a week, whatever the person is doing. I don't know how to be more clear. This will be inconsistent and suck forever. Yeah, if you don't stop and change it. So if you're gonna stay where you're at, I have one rule going forward: you can never complain to me because it's a choice.

It is.

And so not only did that help me get the people up The ones that stayed down, the mental burden that they were giving me went away because I was like, yo, door A, you get rich in. Door B has like fucking people shooting arrows at you. But if you choose to go in it, I'm not going in there to chase you. You'll, you'll die in that door over there. But if you go in, that's on you. You just, you can't bitch to me when you come out and be like, I didn't tell you. No, No, there's people with fucking arrows in there, they're gonna fucking shoot, you know what I mean? And I would just do stuff like that a lot, dude. And then, so then when people were having luck, I'd be like, same as sales, when they go like, if you do the sales setup right, at the end they give you bullshit, you'd be like, nah, didn't you just say this, right? When you don't follow it and now you're— I'm like, yo, wait, didn't we say no complaining? Yeah, I know, but, uh, I just— the money and my wife and my kid. I'm like, yo, remember you said you were going to start running more and you didn't?

Yeah.

Hey, you said you were gonna be more consistent lead flow and didn't. And I told you the result if you, if you kept— remember what did I say?

It's gonna suck.

Forever.

Forever.

And yet you keep doing it, dude.

Right.

Like, what do you want me to do, bro?

Yeah. And that's the transition that, even for myself when I was brand new and just like, like I said, I was immature. I had a lot of growing up to do. Like, Yeah, and I thought I was mature, but you don't know that until you're actually surrounded by people that are really actually mature, you know. And I had to realize like, this, this isn't just like a little side hustle Uber Eats job. Nah, buddy, this is a million-dollar ATM if you can figure out how to actually build it properly. But if it was easy, everybody would be rich, but that's not the case. So, you know, just understanding that and making that transition mentally was like something that was really powerful. And I, I try to like have that communication with people, but I like the way that you go through it because analogies are perfect to be able to help people understand it in a simple way where it gets the message across and helps people to, to understand that the choice is theirs. Yeah, I'm just here to communicate with you what that path looks like if you go down that road.

So, so earlier you said something about biting your tongue, like when people are— and you're like, I bite my tongue. I like that. So when I bit my tongue, yeah, then what I would do is I would— when I wanted to tell someone something, an agent, when I want to be like, yo, you're not doing enough, yo, you're missing the— yo, your tone sucks, yo, whatever it is, if I have something, a message I want to get across, yeah, I would bite my tongue and I would think of a question I would think of a question that would help them process and understand what I really wanted to say. Yeah, I had to get— it's like, remember that, you seen that game show where it's like, uh, what the hell's the one where there's like a word and you can't say the word but you got to get them to say the word? Oh yeah, like, uh, it's like Pictionary's kind of like that where you draw it.

Yeah, I know.

Then there's the one where they sit down, old school, it's like The triangle thing. I don't— someone out, someone will know it. I forget the name of the show.

I forget it too.

But yeah, like you had to, you had to get them, get them there. Yeah, you know, and that's kind of how I want to do it, but I want to do it through questions.

What they do—

can I ask you a question? But you ever hear Sean say it? You start, he's starting to be like, can I ask you a question, bro? You know you're fucked then. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, so bite your tongue and think of how can I get them there. I want, I want them to— because if they don't think, if they don't process, it's not the same, you know? So I've— I just learned how to get people there really good. I just started working on a dude, and I, I— when I was done with the conversation, I'd pay attention. Like, I can see the light bulb moments for you.

Yeah.

So as I'm communicating with people, I'm like, oh, they're having one, got it, that worked. Oh, they're having one. Oh, that, that analogy worked. Or sometimes you say it and they get lost. I'm like, oh shit, that one didn't work. Let me come up with a better one.

You know, that's good. And you're teaching them to become more like independent thinkers.

100%.

Yeah, 100%. What we need to build a business. So yeah, yeah, that's awesome, man.

Love it, dude.

This is solid. I appreciate all like all of that that you just went through and shared. I took a lot of good things away that I'm gonna start implementing. I'm gonna have to review and take some notes. This is gonna be on, uh, your YouTube, right?

Yeah, yeah. Nice. Yeah, we'll we'll send— the team will put it out in a few weeks. I'll have a Zoom in a little while though. I can, I can send it to you if you want it, just the recording. Yeah, shoot me your email. I don't know if I have your— well, my team does. I'll just tell them to send it to you.

I sent it today. Yeah, I didn't get that form sent in until earlier this morning. I apologize about that, but that's good.

Yeah, I'll have them send it to you when it comes in. As soon as we hit end here, it'll come in like 10 minutes. So sweet. Well, I appreciate it, dude. Thanks for getting on. Thanks for sharing. Uh, if y'all have any questions, certainly you can find and follow below, ask either one of us. Um, yeah, but dude, go keep killing it. Let me know if I can help in any way. Appreciate your time, homie.

Awesome. Thank you, John. See ya.