👨‍🏫 Guest Masterclass: An Experiential Introduction to Circling w/ Sofia-Jeanne

Okay.

Let'S.

Good morning, everyone. Good afternoon. Hey, Tessa. Hey, Corey. Hey, Sophie. Hey, Etta. Hey, Mark. Hey, Julia. Hey, Pete. Hey, Max. Steve. Hey, Ian. Lovely to see you all this morning. And we'll give everyone else a couple of minutes or so, but if you would like to in the chat, how you are feeling in your body in three words.

Sam.

Just take the next minute or so to arrive in this space. Get comfort in your seat. Any stretches or movement, feel good. Close. Any abs by the browsers or mental tabs.

Sam.

Okay, well, welcome, everyone. I'm really excited for today's session. It is a pleasure to have Sophia Jean joining us here today. How do I intro you, Sophia? You're studying your PhD in Organizational Psychology, I think. Yes. And you're also just an incredible circling facilitator and practitioner. Yeah. Is there anything else that I should share to give people sufficient context as to who you are?

I think those are the two big buckets. My two main focuses over the last, like, decade have been some of the academic work that I'm doing. I'm currently doing research on interoception on body experience and social engagement and social threat. And I've also been exploring a lot of psychological practices, group interpersonal practices, and spiritual practices over the past decade, and a lot of meditation. And those are kind of coming together in a cool way that dovetails really well with a lot of what you all are learning about and practicing here. So, super excited to explore together.

Yeah. Amazing. Well, with that, I think I'll just. I'll pass the microphone over to you and let you take the stage.

Sounds good. All right, so I'm going to give a very, very brief explanation of circling, and then we'll dive into kind of a combination of continuing the framing of what we're doing along with some of the practice. I found that getting to have the experience of what I'm explaining, like, tied more closely to the framing can really help with, like, understanding what we're doing. So circling very broadly is just a group practice where we increase the amount of awareness we have of our own experience, but also of what's happening for each other. And this can really come in handy in any social situation as long as if. As well as if you are just sitting alone at your computer. Because there's this way we can. We can train our awareness so that we get more of the data of our own experience and of what's happening for other people, live as we're working with it. So the first thing I always like to do, either in person or on Zoom, but I think especially actually on Zoom, is to do anything we can to get more comfortable in our environment. Sometimes in certain contexts, like if you know that there's a camera that other people might be looking at you, it can trigger all of these processes. And so if there's anything you can do right now to help yourself be more comfortable, I would love for you to do that. Whether that's adjusting your physical setting, if you need it to be warmer or cooler, if you need any water, if you wish you had a snack, if your cat is meowing at the door, whatever it may be, you're welcome to move your body around, help yourself be more comfortable, because we're going to be going into some areas that may be uncomfortable, and it can be really helpful to make yourself as comfortable as possible before that because it'll make it a lot easier to try something new. So whatever you can do in that regard, please feel very welcome now and throughout the entire session. You're welcome to fiddle with the Zoom settings. If you like to hide yourself, you. If you like to have yourself, you on. These things impact us all differently. You're welcome to play around with it. Yeah. If you have any ideas about this, you're also welcome to share in the chat. We've all found our. Our own ways to. To manage these kinds of situations. Okay. So having done that, I just want to say there's often a lot happening inside of us when we're interacting with other people, and sometimes even just when we're watching someone else talk, like you may be watching me talk right now. And most of it generally goes acknowledged. It just kind of passes through as the water. And some of that's fine, but some of it can also be useful because it can help us decide what sort of actions we want to take. Like, for example, getting a glass of water because we notice that we're thirsty. So we're going to step into doing the social version of the comfortable exercise that we just did on our own side. So I'd encourage you to start to look at the other people who are here, and you can just, you can page through it. Just take a look and see if you can notice in your own body if anything happens as you do that you can notice if you're drawn to this person or that this color or that. You might notice if you feel more relaxed looking at some people or a little more tense looking at others. Or you might just notice your own body state and kind of track it as you look around, as you're Doing this, I encourage you to keep breathing, notice your body, whatever might be happening inside, and to know also that as you look around, other people may be looking at you. And one of the strangenesses of zoom, for better or for worse, is that you don't know. And so that means both that you can look at everyone and you have no idea. They have no idea if you're looking at them, but also you have no idea if someone's looking at you. And it's a little bit strange. It's a strange social setting.

Okay, so now, am I going down at all? Okay, cool. Same floor, all the way down.

Do we agree or disagree? Maybe she should go up. Okay, so as you're doing that, we're going to walk through basically two of the core building blocks of experience. So we've already touched on one of them, which is body sensation. And the other basic building block we'll be working with is emotion. So first, see if you can really, like, increase the granularity of your focus, almost as if you're taking a microscope and, like focusing the lens, the sensation, and just notice what's going on there physically. Maybe you have some aches, maybe it feels good, maybe there's tension or tingling, maybe you don't feel much at all, which is still a body experience. And then we'll add in the other layer, which is the emotional layer, which is what tends to be one of the predominant experiences we'll end up having when we're with other people. So see if you can switch your focus now to the emotional space. Wherever you experience that, maybe it's somewhere in your body, maybe you experience it more in your mind. See if you can change the focus of your attention from the physical sensation into the emotional space. Maybe there's excitement or happiness or sadness or anxiety, whatever it may be sometimes here it's also more neutral. It may be contentment, it may be apathy, maybe blankness, whatever it is, to see if you can turn your attention towards your sense of your own emotional experience. There are also often a lot of more intense emotions that might come up when we're with other people. You may feel love or fear, hatred, boredom, desire or anxiety. And often we keep a lot of that under the surface. So just for you on your own side right now, just see what might be bubbling in terms of what you might be hoping for, what you might be afraid of. So I'm going to talk a little bit more about circling more broadly now and kind of introduce it to us as a practice. And as I'm doing that. I encourage you to stay in touch with this area of attention that we've brought up. And so you're very welcome kind of to let my voice drift through your mind as you stay in contact with whatever you might be experiencing. So I'll just say, when I started circling, it felt like it really opened up this new relation space for me that I'd only really experienced in like those glorious 3am conversations or like periodic heart to hearts with friends or strangers. Strangers. And this practice really, it showed me that I could interact with anyone that I met, whether they were a stranger or a dear friend, in ways that just felt a lot more rich and meaningful and were filled with more spontaneity and joy, as well as some of the crunchy, awkward, uncomfortable stuff that you also become more aware of when you become more aware of whatever is happening. And it felt like I could just be way more honest and genuine with whoever I was interacting with, which for me felt very relieving and really satisfying. So obviously I was hooked and I've been doing it ever since. And so this kind of thing may be something that you're just into, like I was just into it or me. It may be something you do really practically, because these skills will actually help you dial in the relationships in your life so that those relationships can become even more powerful. So whatever your motivations may be, you're welcome to orient towards this whole experience exploration that we're going through in whatever way will help you move forward on those goals, whether it's because you really got to figure out how to interact with someone at work or else your project is going to bomb, or you're just like, man, it's so cool what we find out when we sit together and we're quiet and we tell each other how we feel. So whatever it is, welcome that. And we will plunge forward. So I'll be walking us through a variety of practices. We'll do some of them together as a group, and we'll be do some of them in dyads or in triads, in breakout rooms. And these practices are basically designed to help us become more aware of what happens for ourselves when we're with other people, but also actually to become more aware of other people and what might be happening for them when we're interacting with them. And this can be a lot. So we're going to break it down into pretty simple steps, but hopefully by the end you'll have one or two tools that you'll be able to use anywhere that'll give you a little more insight into what's happening for you or what's happening to someone else when you're interacting. And whatever comes up, whether you have an intense experience or whether you just kind of plod along and you're like, oh, yeah, this is cool, just try to welcome it, whatever the experience may be. And if you can't welcome it, then you can welcome that. You can't welcome it. And that is totally cool too. As I mentioned earlier, if there's anything you can do to be more comfortable at any point, unless it's going to be like super offensive, please feel free to go ahead and do it. And if you have any questions, please feel free to raise your hand. Pop it in the chat. If you have a question, probably someone else does. And if no one does, then you get to be special and ask it only for yourself, which is a very good skill to have. Is there anything at this point anyone wants to ask me about? Check in about any thoughts or questions we should touch base on before we plunge in. I'll give it a few beats just in case I'm stalling for you. In case you have a question.

I think Michelle has a question.

Perfect, go ahead. Yes, Michelle.

Oh, I'm sorry, I have to leave this. Thank you first of all for being here. I really love the work you're doing, but I have to leave at about two minutes to two and I just need to give a heads up if that would impact the interaction with whomever I may be paired.

Okay. Either we'll be in between exercises at that point or if we're going into an exercise, we'll just pull you out of it before we go in. None of them are too long, so you shouldn't miss too much. And we can find a way to make sure you get slotted in between. Thanks. Glad you're here for the hour. Anything else? All right, so we started doing a little bit of this already in the beginning. But first we are going to practice in the chat sharing body sensations, which if you have any trouble identifying these, I'm going to pop a convenient one page PDF in the chat which has, for now, both feelings and body sensations. But first we're going to focus on body sensations. And one of the reasons that we do this is because it can be really helpful to disentangle these two and it's not because they're actually inherently separate or anything, but because it can help us, like, tighten the focus on that microscope. So we're going to start with body sensations and we'll just Spend about a minute or two. You can put them in the chat if you'd like. You can actually stay on mute and just say them out loud. Kind of like a noting practice as you note body sensations. But the chat is a nice way to do this. And so what we'll end up with is we'll end up with a whole long list in the chat of common body sensations that you or someone else might commonly be experiencing in the course of any sort of social reaction. So feel free to look around if you want any fodder and just see what you notice in your own body as you're here and pop them in the chat. I'll start at some.

Point.

And if you've already come up with one, you can also ask, what else is here? What other sensations am I experiencing? Sometimes we get drawn. Our attention gets drawn into the loudest one and then we don't notice that there are also a hundred others that are just a little quieter. Amazing. You all are obviously experts at this. Okay, so we'll start to transition now into the emotions. And this is one where it might be even more helpful, if you need any help on this, to use the sheet. Because some of us end up with smaller or larger vocabularies for our emotional experience. And it can be really helpful. Both we'll see in what you all are typing as well as in the. Like in the feeling sheet, if you want to use that just to start to increase the granularity of our awareness of emotional experience. So we'll do the same thing that we just did with the physical, but we'll move it to the emotional. You're welcome to use the sheet or just source from your own. And you're welcome to look around. You could choose one person and focus on them and write only the feelings that come up in relationship to them. And often you will notice it's like. It's almost like the emotional space is like a slightly different sense than the physical space. Almost like the difference between seeing and hearing. Like, you kind of have to open a slightly different sense gate to tap into the emotional. And if you're having trouble getting into your emotional space, one way to do it is to use some basic emotion words and just say out loud to yourself, I feel happy. And just notice if anything happens, you can say, I feel sad, I feel excited. You can just kind of try a few basic emotion words out to see if that helps you tap into that emotional space. Amazing. Thank you, Kate, for putting it back in. It's hard when there's A floodgate of emotions happening in the chat. Okay, amazing. So where we're going to take this next is we're going to take this into diets because it is one thing to put it in the chat and another thing to really share with someone else and hear back from them what's going on for them. And so this will start more of the close relational aspect of this kind of practice. So we'll basically do exactly what we did in the chat, but we're going to do it in dyads in the breakout room. So we're going to do what I call ping pong, which we'll do it. I'll do a quick demo with Ocean. Ocean, are you down? Okay, so it'll be ping pong, which means I'll say a body sensation and then Ocean will say a body insensation, and then I will say a body sensation and then Ocean will say a body sensation. And I think you probably get the gist of this by now. So we'll just do a few back and forth. So I noticed my chest is a little tight.

I notice my shoulders are slightly hunched.

I'm feeling some tension in the, like, bottom of my neck, the top of my back.

Noticing like a numb tingliness in my right foot and a desire to move it around. Perfect.

So that is an example of ping pong. So you'll have a chance in your dyads. First, we'll do two minutes, just a body sensation ping pong. And then we'll do two minutes of emotion ping pong. And we'll send out little reminders to let you know when to shift. And then you'll also have a few minutes after that just to debrief with your partner and talk about what it's like. And one of the interesting parts is that when you do it with someone else, there's a way you can kind of start responding to each other. Like when Ocean said something about her back and then I noticed my neck. And so there's a way that interaction will, will, can even start to change where your own awareness goes and just to see what that experience is like, what it's like to share those. That those facts about yourself with someone else and what it's like to hear from the other person what's going on in their more subjective personal space. Any questions before we go into breakouts? Awesome. Okay, so we'll do diets for this. You'll be with just one partner. It'll be, you know, you'll be in there for about six to seven minutes. Together and we'll send you pings to do body sensation ping pong and then emotion ping pong. And then you'll have some time to debrief together and talk about what it was like.

Just a logistical piece. If you are not joining a room, just ignore the invite and stay here in the main room. And then I can shuffle pairs around. So if you end up in a room and you don't have a partner, I will make sure you have a partner very soon.

Thank you.

And Sophia, Jeanne, are you keeping time? Did you want me to do that?

I can keep time.

Cool. Thank you.

Are the people who are still in here people who are not joining breakout rooms? Are they all going to take off?

To be determined share message means this. You won't be Pete, Clara and Eric. If you want to join a room, let us know.

Hello?

Yeah, I cannot join. Sorry that I didn't text you. I'm on the move. Okay, sounds good.

Can I send the messages or I think ocean. You send the messages.

Shall I move Harare room 24 to. Oh, it looks like that's maybe room 16 or. Yeah, Harari's on her own right now.

Okay. Which message do you want me to send? And then I'll move Harari.

Two minutes body sensation ping pong.

Maybe interim four. I can do it.

Cool, thanks. Oh yeah.

Yay. I think we have even numbers. That's always good. Yay.

Satisfying. Hopefully it works for the. I have. One of the last ones is Triads. We'll see if there's like a. Is it also a duplicate? Is it also a multiple of three?

Well, we have. We have 70. 72 people, so that should be perfect. That divides by three.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then there's four people not joining. Wow.

Very satisfying.

Wow.

Very satisfying.

Oh, that doesn't. Well, I mean there are three of us. I'm happy to go in as well.

Yeah, same.

Do you want to do it or are you doing something else?

Totally good do. Yeah, I. I was just. I was just reflecting on. It's. I feel so like, like bizarrely calm in this moment. It's almost like so much energy usually comes online when I'm about to facilitate and it now like you're doing everything. I'm just like. It's just this like melting into the. Into the chair.

That sounds amazing.

It's really nice. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel so much awe and aliveness just hearing you speak. I'm like. It's just if like it feels so simple and yeah. Don't know what the word for that is just whole.

It makes me really curious. Okay, we're not exactly ping ponging, but. Oh, can we tell them two minutes. Emotional ping pong.

Oh, yeah.

I have my stopwatch going over here. It makes me wonder like, like if you have like a hope or like, aspiration or desire where there's something that, that you're like, looking for that you like, you're like seeing some of it and you're like, oh, there's something in there that I really want.

Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, I think like an ease. You just bring this kind of like, ease. You're like, I'm just here, I'm just saying stuff. And I, I like there's like a dual hope, like, for myself to be able to feel that in social interactions, because I really don't. And then in like, also for everyone here to witness that and be like. Like when I'm thinking of the, the CrossFit sessions, I'm like, oh, like all of this stuff that they can then like, take away and then bring into their own kind of dyads there.

You're like, it almost looks like you're like almost glowing.

Yeah, it's true.

I feel kind of like in awe of like the amount of like radiance. Yeah, totally.

Yeah. I was noticing there's almost like a playfulness or mischievousness that I feel during your sessions, Sophia Jean. And then I had the thought of. I've just watched the last Airbender series and you almost remind me of a last Airbender character with the kind of silver streak through the hair.

Hilarious.

I could totally see you as this animated character in that series.

I'm curious.

Relational, like.

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what it's like in my Friday sessions. It is a little bit like that. Like, it's, It's. Yeah, that probably lines up pretty well, actually. Can we send them the two minute debrief? Ping? Johnny, I'm also curious where all your people come from. Like, how, how all these people have like found you.

That's a great question.

Like, do you. Is it. Is it marketing or is it like other.

So we're in the process of figuring that out right now. It looks like 40 something percent is like alumni, word of mouth referrals and friends.

That's awesome.

Like, 2025 was podcasts, so art of accomplishment. This one I did with Lenny, that drove a bunch of people. And then others were like newsletter things. Some marketing as well. Like a little bit from sponsored newsletters. Yeah, I can share the whole Breakdown, if you're interested. I'm trying to figure it out right now.

Very cool.

And I love the process of, like, your create the creation. Twitter.

It's cool that it does seem. It's almost like taking on a life of its own in a way. That is really awesome.

Yeah.

What were you saying? Ocean.

Oh, I just said lots from Twitter as well.

Yeah, true. Yeah. I spend too much time on Twitter.

For your own good, it appears.

Yeah. It seems to have some downstream benefits.

Okay, shall we call them back?

Do it.

I think our chat is over.

Yeah.

Group chat. It's so nice spending time with you.

Maybe we'll have more time.

Be good to yourself.

Me too, Michelle. Thank you.

So we'll do a short harvest together. Harvest is a word that someone who isn't me came up with for when you share after small group activities. In the large group, we harvest all of your opinions and perspectives and experiences. So if there's anything you'd like to share that hit you or stood out to you about how that was either for good or for bad, you're welcome to raise your hand or unmute and share a little bit about it with the rest of the group. Hi, Keith.

Hey.

Thanks. And I love harvesting as a term, by the way. I'm definitely stealing that. That's great. My partner and I were both talking about how. How though we remained open, there was like a thin layer of self consciousness that. That we both experienced in transitioning from talking about our own body sensations to talking about our own emotions. And that for whatever reason, we surmise that might be because, like, it almost feels like a third party talking about your. Your body sensations, Whereas emotions, they feel so much more personal, so much more reflective of who you are. Which then we were joking, was like, probably the exact point of the course is to, like, find parity between those.

Yeah, yeah. They're kind of like steps. Like, it's one thing to tell someone that your toe hurts and another to tell them that you feel, like, awfully embarrass right now. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Seymour. I'm sorry if I just butchered your name.

Yeah, you're totally good. It's simmer. Like, simmer down.

Simmer.

Yeah.

Cool.

Yeah.

Simmered down.

Yeah. Yeah. That was so beautiful. First thought so thank you for inviting that in. And my partner, Liz and I, one of the things that we were noticing was that whenever I would say a body sensation or whenever she would say a body sensation, the same, like the mirror body sensation would pop up. So it'd be like, great. Tingling in the toes. I would feel the tingle in my toe and then be like, great. Like, let that wash over and then create space for what then comes on my side, you know? And I just noticed there was this both for the body sensations and then in the emotions, like, that really did feel like. Yeah. Like there was this element of what somebody would say would spark, you know.

Yeah.

Mirror neurons, like, spark something on the other side, which would then lead to us sort of like, you know, I experienced joy, then there was, like, joy that came back on the other side. And like, we just sort of. There was like, a beautiful way in which it felt like energy was cycling or circling, like, in a way, like we got. We're experiencing and tapping into each other's experience. And I think, yeah, that was initially like, okay, like, what's my experience versus the other person's experience? And I noticed that there was, like, how do you differentiate between the two? Like, what's. Like, how much of it is my experience I'm experiencing on my own versus what this other person is experiencing? And then I feel like, you know, there's just, like, a letting of that go and being like, yeah, maybe, like, there is. There is a connection, just, like, letting it emerge naturally and being like. That's just what is true for me in this moment.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's kind of amazing how much we reorient each other's attention, even, and that I can happen in these beautiful ways, but then it happens to the same degree when it's, like, horribly awkward or when someone's in a lot of, like, emotional pain. You also really feel it, and then you kind of feed it back to them, and then they feel it more. And so just to, like, to. To really be aware of, like, where we impact each other so deeply in those ways, both, like, for good, but also when it's, like. When it's hard, like. Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

Yeah. It's a beautiful.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you, Sophia.

Mary.

Yeah. I myself, I'm unmuted. Yes. Yeah.

For. What I noticed was how expansive it.

Made me feel and what a great.

Relief it is to be just so real in. In. In an exchange. And. But what we both wondered, Greg and I, in our talk, talking about it afterward, is how this really works in a social situation. Unless it's just simply each of us being an example of what is possible by demonstrating authenticity. But from that point of view, I feel like I've been doing that for a while, and it hasn't really changed my social interactions. To the extent that I felt in this exercise. Yeah, people are doing it. Yeah. But also part of what we do in circling is we learn how to inquire into other people's experiences so that they feel at least welcome whether or not they choose to. To share something different. Because sometimes it's not enough just to see it. Like, you really have to be invited into it. And so, you know, to notice that someone's squinching up their face and say, hey, like, what are you feeling right now? You know, and like, different ways to kind of start that conversation and inquire into someone else's experience can be a really important part of that process. Or even just to explain what you're doing and why, you know, because otherwise I can kind of be like, oh, that person just kind of does whatever they're doing. I don't know what that thing is. Yeah, right. And so, and so. So giving them your framing can also be a, like a form of invitation. Sometimes I warn people that, like, my face makes a lot of things, and they're always welcome to ask about, like, what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling, for example.

Awesome.

That's really helpful. Thanks.

Good luck.

Good luck out there. All right, Catherine, let's do. Let's do this a little bit snappier because I want to make sure we have time for the rest of our practices. But I love hearing what you all are saying. Cool. This, this one's brief. I'm noticing that I'm eating a slice of humble pie because I would have said, oh, I'm very self aware.

But I'm noticing now if I'm not.

Having an intense emotional experience, it's just kind of like a void in there. And I'm like, I guess I feel calm, but I know there are these subtler things happening. And it's funny, I just recognized that.

I was like, like, oh, I'm.

I'm good on labeling the big.

But these subtler things that change more frequently, it feels very new to tap into. That's amazing. Nice work. Yeah, you're like tuning the microscope. Getting the smaller. Getting the smaller bugs.

Yeah.

Thank you, Nathan. Naveen.

Hey, Sophia. So me and my partner had a couple of observations. I think closing our eyes helped us connect with each other better. Like, this is something I observed at least for myself. And secondly, like, I think I was. He was able to feel his emotions much, much better. And I was, I mean, sorry, it's the other way around. I was not able to feel my body sensation very well. And he was not able to do feel his emotions very well. I think that's what it mentioned. So it's like different for every person how they feel about emotions and body sensations.

So.

Totally.

I think it's practice. Yeah.

Yeah. Well. And we just, we all have different defaults. Some of us pay more attention to our thoughts, some of us pay more attention to our bodies. Some of us pay more attention to our feelings. And so learning to do the ones that we're not as comfortable with is like really good muscle building. But yeah, that's absolutely true. Yeah. Noticing. Cool.

Yeah. Learning what you don't know is perfect.

Yeah.

Hi, this is Naveen.

I'll be real quick. So when we started this exercise, when I started with my partner Michelle, I could think of either one or two, either body sensations or emotional feelings. And after that I was blank. And then when she said something, then I started feeling.

So like I said, like someone Summer.

Said, I think I also started connecting to the feelings that she had.

So.

Yeah, that was an observation from.

Very cool. Totally, Totally good. So much good tracking. Yeah. Y' all are like, yeah, on it. Hey, Tessa, Good to see you.

Hello.

Yeah, good to be here. I want to share that I had a kind of cool experience of moving from noticing body sensations to emotions. It was like time suddenly slowed down for me because when I was noticing body sensations, I was like, oh, I'm noticing this and this and this and this and this and this going on. And then when I had to describe it in terms of emotions, it's like, what's the general pattern? And that was a very different quality of awareness than like my attention kind of like ping ponging to specific points in my body. So that was fun.

Cool. Cool.

Yeah. Thanks.

Hi, Sophia.

I think this is more of a question. So since we also, like all the other people felt like the impact on each other's emotion and sensation, I want. What's your recommendation of sharing negative emotions or sensation because it has impact on. Make other. Other people also feel a little bit negative. Sometimes might be even triggering to other person. So I wonder if there's any recommendations. Yeah, it's. It's so contextual. You know, I've found that if I feel comfortable with someone, then I'm more likely to do it. And then it can be really wonderful. And that sometimes is more of a risk. But sometimes it's worth taking that risk if you know that you want to be more open with someone or you want to have a closer relationship with them. And then there are other situations where you Know, you're just walking by and maybe you're feeling a little bit upset. And like, you know, there's. There's not necessarily any reason to share, but sometimes your heart is just bursting with joy and you want everyone to know. And so I feel like there's like this balance of like, like, what are you drawn to in an interaction? And then also, like, what are your goals? Or like, what are your intentions there? And sometimes, like, if you know it's gonna start like a horrible snowball, sometimes you do keep it in and you're like, I'm not gonna go there right now. Like, we're not gonna snowball right now.

Now.

But I think some of us can lean too far towards just sharing all of it. We call it like word vomit, you know, or keeping it all really tight in. And so if you lean either in one direction or the other, it can be helpful to practice the opposite. If you're used to just sharing everything to see, like, what's it like to keep it to myself? And if you're used to keeping it really tight to see what's it like to share a little bit more in the areas that I feel comfortable doing. So. And that's like one way to start flexing that. That muscle. Yeah, but it's a, it's. That's a. An amazing question. Thank you. Keep asking it. Okay, so let us try out the next exercise. I noticed my. My video is freezing a little bit. Can you all still hear me? Okay? Am I going in and out?

Yes, we come.

Okay, great. Okay, so we're going to do a quick practice in the full group right now, and then we will move back into breakouts. But this is, this is what I call titrating attention. And it's important because some of us tend to have like all of our attention over here, like on ourselves and like our own process. And we're like, barely aware that anything is happening over there on the outside. And other of us, others of us will be paying so much attention to what's happening for someone else or out in the environment that we're like almost completely unaware of what is happening for ourselves. So it's like a slider between having all of your attention on yourself and having all of your attention out on other people or on the environment. So we're going to play with this a little bit. So you're going to choose someone to look at and you can move around here. It doesn't have to be just one person, but practice as you look at that person, putting the Slider all the way on yourself, so you look at that person while primarily paying attention to yourself. And so even as you have your eyes on them, you're focusing on your own experience, your own body, your own emotions, but you still have a sense. Like you know they're there because you're looking at them, but you're really paying attention to yourself. And then slide the slider a little bit farther away from you so you're paying a little bit more attention to the other person. Maybe you notice more details of their face or their environment or of the screen. You can slide it a little bit more maybe to the halfway point where you're about half attention on yourself, half attention on the other. Maybe it gets a little weird at this point, it feels a little split. And see if you can push it a little bit further so it's like 3/4 on them. Like 3/4 of your attention is out on what's happening out there. And you still have like one quarter on you. And then push it all the way so it's like you have no idea what's happening for you and you are completely sucked in to what might or might not be happening for the other person or out there in the environment. Okay, amazing. Now do whatever you would like with your attention. Let it ping pong around, let it smoosh, whatever it wants to do. And just like notice that. You can notice that in your interactions, you can notice that like whatever your default is when you're with someone, if you tend to be more in yourself, if you tend to be all the way out there, whatever it is, and there's, there's something about, there's something like, I always call it like data gathering, which is maybe like a little bit too sciency or something. But it's like when you have your attention on yourself, you can gather data about yourself and when you have your attention on someone else, you can gather data about them. It's a little bit more limited because you know, you have mostly the physical cues to go on, but you can only do the data gathering if your attention is there. So if you don't have any attention on the other person, you're not going to be gathering any of the data about what might be happening for them, even if you don't know exactly what that data means. Like maybe they're moving their face in a weird way and you're like, does it have something to do with me or do they just have a stomach ache right now? You know, and if you're not paying attention to yourself, Then you're going to have no idea what you're feeling, what your body's trying to tell you, what you might want or need in the interaction. And so learning to slide that and gather data both. Both from yourself and the other person, it's like a really important part of this, this kind of like bringing more awareness into the relational realm. So what we will do next is called the imagining game. And we play the imagining game because the only thing you can actually know about someone else is what they're doing physically, like what we would call what's objectively true. What someone else could also look at someone and say, yes, their eyebrows are moving closer together, or yes, they are twiddling their thumbs, or yes, they are walking away from you and not coming back, whatever it is. And the part that we don't know, but that we often assume is what the experience is that they're having, whether they're having an emotional experience, what they're thinking about, how they're interpreting the situation, what they think about you, whether they're just thinking about their dinner, whatever it might be. So we play this game in order to practice outing our guesses about what someone else might be feeling or experiencing, as well as learning to check with them about whether our guesses are on or whether they're off and getting a little bit more feedback to see if we can get to know this person a little bit better or just understand, like, what kind of cues to they're sending out and what those cues mean for them. So I'm going to do a quick demo. Ocean, are you. Are you available for demo?

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, so what we'll do is it'll just go back and forth a few times. So the first person will say, I imagine you're feeling. Fill in the blank. And it doesn't have to be right. It can be totally out of left field. You can choose a random word and say, I think you're feeling extremely bored with absolutely no reason for it. It really. Or you can pick something that's actually your best guess, which will probably give you better data. So I'll say, I imagine you're feeling anticipation. And then Ocean is just gonna feel whatever the impact is of the guests of the production.

And then I'm gonna just feel it.

Yeah, you just feel it because part of it is about the impact. And then I'm gonna say, is that right? Or does that land? Or, like, how does that feel? And then Ocean, if she wants to, can say, yeah, blah, blah, blah, or no, Blah, blah, blah. Or she can say nothing at all because you never have to answer someone's question unless you feel like it. So was that right? Did it land.

As you said the word? I felt this like tingling in my stomach and this drop of yeah, I'm feeling like some apprehension maybe not anticipation. Feels less exciting than anticipation.

Awesome. Do you want to go? Would you like to imagine something that I'm feeling and I'll do it on my side?

I'm imagining that you're feeling very spacious. Does that land for you?

My body feels like, like a tight pod of energy. There's like spaciousness around the tight pod. But like mostly I feel the tide pod.

Cool.

Okay, so that's it. So we both just imagine something, left space for it to land and then checked and maybe responded if we felt like. Thank you, Ocean. Any questions before we go into recaps and try this out?

Do we keep going back and forth multiple times or Is this just one?

Yeah.

I'll give you all about 10 minutes in the room together so you can play around with it for seven or eight minutes and then you'll have a few minutes to debrief and just with with your group and talk about it. I'll put the sequence in the chat. I don't know if the chat is going to be available once you are in the room, so if you want it, maybe copy paste it. Okay. The formatting is a little bit funky, but I think you'll get it. You're also welcome just to riff on it like you saw what we did. You get it, you get a taste of it, you can play around with it. Play around with the sense of making a guess about what someone's feeling, knowing that it's a guess, knowing that's going to impact them and then checking in. And if you're on the receiving end, knowing that you don't have to respond, you don't have to tell them, but it might be interesting, be a cool conversation and just to play around with that together. Cool. So we'll do dyads again.

Cool. And same as always. If you're not joining, then don't join. And I'm also conscious that it's coming up to the hour, so if you have something else to jump off to, then yeah, just ignore the invite.

Thanks for demoing with me, Ocean.

Thank you.

I already sprung it on you. I feel like you're welcome in advance.

It's good to feel what I feel in response to these things.

Either of you have opinions on harvest time? I always Feel torn on doing like going longer on the harvest or doing more. More practices. They both feel valuable in very different ways.

Sorry, I'm distracted by breakout rooms.

No worries. I appreciate you managing that.

We have one person on that. Oh.

You hang with them.

Oh, if you're happy to.

Yeah, totally.

Where are you.

So helpful. All right. I hope they don't mind. Will you ping us in seven minutes to do the debrief? To transition to the debrief brief?

Yes.

I didn't have any. I was in 23 and then 24 and didn't get. Didn't have anybody with me.

We're coming. So coming. Okay.

See you in the right sec.

How do I resend you?

Yep, I'm joining. I'm rejoining.

I. Oh, cool. Seven minutes. Oh, what was the instruction? Seven minutes and do what? Oh, Jenny, I don't know if you're talking to me, but if you are, you're muted.

I. I was just speaking so much.

I saw you speaking at one point. I was like, maybe he's talking to someone.

I just added Suman to that same room because he was on his own as well.

Oh, was he?

Yeah.

Okay, so we can bring Sophia.

We'll see. But it looks like everyone else is. I also. I for some reason thought that we were doing 90 minutes today as opposed to just the hour. Was that.

I think we're doing 19.

We are. Okay, great. Because someone said coming up to the hour, so. Oh, maybe that was just because that was me. Michelle. Michelle mentioned that she had to leave. Got it.

Yeah. Michelle had mentioned she had to leave, so I thought just in case anyone else had to leave as well.

Great.

Yeah.

I am noticing my ladder is very full, so I'm going to use the bathroom.

Did. Did you hear Sophia Jean's instruction after seven minutes? Do what? Tell them to debrief.

Oh.

I forgot. That's fine. Yeah. Debrief after seven minutes and then bring them back a few minutes later.

All it. Are you just seeing my arms in the air?

I'm seeing your hands like a puppet shape.

I'm feeling some embarrassment at mentioning that we're coming up to the hour and not making that more clear about what I meant by that and potentially causing confusion for people.

I think you get.

I really like the invitation from Severe Shamasar to make yourself more comfortable.

I thought exactly the same thing.

Yep.

Oh, gang, gang.

Yeah. I don't know if she was here before.

I wonder if she was paired with someone previously.

Hey, Ganga. Are you just joining us or were you in a Breakout room.

Hey, guys, I'm just joining.

I just finished my work and so just like, let me pop up and see what. What is happening.

Nice. Nice microphone. I have the same. Same one right here. Yes, yes.

I'll just speak in coaching. So I thought time to get. Get out the good microphone.

Got it. Yeah, it's definitely helpful.

Yeah.

Well, welcome. Everyone's in breakout rooms right now, but.

Well, I'll just hang out of camera and then listen.

Great, thank you. Sounds good. Ocean, are you tracking? I wasn't tracking.

Time.

Okay. Yeah, keeping time. About a minute left.

Good stuff.

But then I don't know how long they should be debriefing, so I'm just gonna wing it.

Two minutes is plenty. But yeah, I agree about the, like, explicit invitation for get comfy.

Yeah. And I like the framing of. Because some of the things we're going to be doing are uncomfortable or potentially uncomfortable.

Yeah, yeah.

Yep. It's funny how much it makes a difference. Even things like wearing comfy clothes in a comfy chair.

Having water nearby. Invitation to eat.

Yeah. And not feeling like permission. Remember last one, she was like, we feel like we have to stay within the frame, but it's like, oh, wow.

Wait, what?

Like, move around the screen. Yeah. Radical.

Game changer. Cool. They are debriefing openly.

Good stuff.

Yeah. It's good to see some returning faces as well.

I was just thinking the same. Weird. I had exactly the same thought just popped into my mind as you said that. I was like, wow, lots of alumni coming. We just telepathically entered the matrix. Yeah. I love these sessions. It's so good.

And I think I will close the rooms.

Welcome back. Welcome back.

Welcome back to us all. Okay. Just making some tough decisions about the rest of our time together. Steve, did you have a question? Two Steves. Oh, my gosh. Steve squared. Okay. Steve Finnegan.

Sure.

No, no questions.

Just to say that I think it.

Was an awesome way to establish a.

Certain level of trust with someone and to build connection.

But, like, for me to have gained. I was able to gain a level of. Of, you know, connection with Patton that.

If we, like, work together or something.

It would have taken us, oh, several.

Months at least to, you know, to build.

And so I think it's.

I think it's very awesome for that.

Totally.

Yeah.

Very.

Totally.

Yeah.

Steve De Jong.

Hi, Sophia. It was fun and interesting. I had a conversation with Kate twice, so both in the first exercise and in the second, so I think it made it a bit easier. It was not. It was easier to tune into the other person again. So that was useful. And I especially liked using the. The cheat sheet with all the words to choose from. Oh, sorry for the dog. So it's. I think it's very helpful. Now we'll print it out and put it on my work computer screen. So if I'm in conversation with someone, I will just start to imagine how the other could be feeling.

Yeah, totally. Nancy, are you on mute?

I think you're muted, Nancy.

Sorry.

The thing that I loved about this is that I realized I am making these judgments all the time, but I am convinced that they're right. So by phrasing it, I imagine I'm.

Staying in the realm of, oh, I don't know if this is true.

True.

I'm just putting it out there, and I'm open to.

I'm open and curious to find out what the truth actually is. So that.

That was really powerful.

That's literally the entire purpose of this exercise. So well done. Well done.

Yep.

Jamie.

Hey.

I think it was quite tricky to imagine how my partner was feeling, given we just spent a fair bit of time telling each other how we were feeling. So I wonder if. Yeah, I'm looking forward to trying it again. And I think building on what Steve just said, like, I feel like I've got a good bond with my. With my boss, but if he'd be open to this, I think it'd be a really interesting way because I particularly noticed in some of our chats, which are often by video call, like, I feel that his face says one thing and we have, like, touched on it. I'm like, I feel like you don't. You don't agree always with what I'm saying, or you look concerned. And he tells me that it isn't. And we've discussed it, but I think this would be a really great way to go deeper and, you know, get a bit clearer on how each of us feeling in certain situations.

Yeah, totally. And that's also a really great point because there's actually, like, way more idiosyncrasy in facial expression than we usually assume. And so, like, I was telling my group that, like, when I'm angry, for example, my face goes totally flat. Like, I stop providing any emotional expression. And that's not, like, what you would typically call an expression of anger. But for me, that's what it looks like when I'm really angry. And so what concern looks like for one person might be totally different. And so I don't know whether your boss is concerned or not, but it Might be that that's just the face that make when they're concentrating and they're actually just focusing on what you're saying, and that's really it. And you just can't really tell unless you ask. But it's also true that even if you ask, you won't necessarily be told. So it's definitely like, that exploration, I think, is, like, really. Is really, really powerful and really important. Like, both not to assume, but also to be willing, like, to find out, but to know, like, you may not have the whole story, and you may never have the whole story. Story. Yikes. Yikes. We can have enough of the story to, like, navigate a bit.

Yeah. And I feel like if both people are aware of this game, or like, tool, if you want to call it that, it doesn't have to be like, we're going to play the game, but you can just kind of say at any point in time, you know, like, I'm. I'm seeing this and I'm imagining that you're feeling like, this is. How is that. And if you build. If you build that trust, then it gets the bottom of it super quick.

Absolutely, absolutely. And even sharing on your own side can kind of like initiate that process with someone else. Because sometimes once you share, then they're like, oh, I feel comfortable sharing too. And I kind of, like, get things rolling. Yeah. Fantastic points. I hope it goes well with your boss.

Yeah.

Okay, y', all, I want to have time to do one more quick exercise together. So if there's something that you're, like, burning that you're like, I gotta get this out, please do. And if not, then can we do one more before we close? Hurry. Huh? Hurry. Right. Oh, God, I'm so sorry. Help. Help pronunciation. Yeah, I just wanted to share. It was so cool to me to see how everything that my partner said, I actually like, like, found that in myself. So even when she was saying things that I wasn't necessarily recognizing, like, that's how I was feeling in the moment, I would see, oh, yeah, there's. There's a way in which I'm feeling that, or there's a part of me that was in that already. And I just. It was. It was really interesting to see how, like, she was recognizing truth all the time, even if that wasn't my primary experience. And then I could find that. And that gave me a lot of trust the other way as well, to say, okay, if I'm recognizing something in somebody else, there's also. There's a way in which it's true. Even if it isn't exactly how they would have described it. And I thought that that kind of circle made us, made me feel really close to my partner really quickly and it was just really cool to observe. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that really emphasizes like how intensely other people can also reorient our attention. And so when someone asks you a question, it sounds like a lot of your attention is going towards their question, like letting their question inform your experience. And so in terms of the slider, the like the other question you could ask or the other exploration would be if I keep my attention totally on myself and I almost don't engage your question, what am I feeling? Like, what am I feeling before you ask the question and maybe even while you're asking the question before I move my attention to your question. Because there's this way that like we can choose what informs our experience and we can also let other people choose what we're paying attention to and like really getting that muscle to, to be able to decide where we're at on the slider so that someone can ask us a question. And we're actually like, this is a totally irrelevant question and I don't want to put my attention there. It's like also a really, really cool place, but also amazing to see like how other people can help point us to things that we didn't even know were there. And that's like so cool.

It's so cool.

That's a fantastic point. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, so we'll do one more exercise together and this is going to be kind of the loosest one. I am going to put a few sentence stems in the chat. Okay, so sentence stems we use just to kind of like help us guide the kinds of things that we're saying. And you don't have to use these, but they can be high helpful in terms of kind of establishing this kind of like in the moment connection and sharing impact and asking people about what's happening for them. So the first one is being with you, I feel. And so this would be if you're around someone else and you wanted to share and we'll do this in a, in a, in a quick group. Being with you, I feel comfortable being with you, I feel, do I feel tense, etc. Etc. The second one is what's that like? Which is just a really simple way to like double click or zoom in on something someone else shared. So if someone's like, ah, I feel scared right now, you can be like, which normally might be a weird question. To ask. But if we're in service of exploring an experience that's happening, then being able to ask, what's that like? Is a really powerful way to kind of zoom in and what's happening. And you can even use it on yourself. Like, if you find you're feeling something, you're sitting at your desk working on a project and you start, like, experiencing anxiety, you can even be like, what's that like? And get more of a sense of it. The third one is hearing that I feel. And so you would say this in response to someone. All shared. So hearing that, I feel comforted. Hearing that, I feel nervous, whatever it might be, as a way to share the impact that someone else. Else is having on you. So we are going to do some quick triads and then we'll have a little bit of time afterwards. I think we'll put you in triads. It'll be just about five minutes. So feel free to copy paste these sentence stems and see if you can just let the conversation flow, keeping it around what you're experiencing right now with these other people. What body sensations are happening, what emotions are happening, how are you feeling when someone else says something? How are you feeling just being with those people? And what's that like? So we'll do triads. We'll do about five minutes and I'll have a little time together here at the end. You can also do. If we need a quad or something because of the numbers, that's totally equal to.

There's a few with two in them. Should we combine them into four?

Yeah, that'd be great. It might be nice to have a little practice with a little bit. With a few more.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Oh, Ocean, you're in the waiting room.

Letter in.

So it looks like room 19 is two. So maybe we combine with room 11. I'll add them both into room 11. Seven, probably easiest.

Okay. Oh, no.

What?

I've lost the chat.

Lost the chat? What do you. What do you mean?

Because I came out and went back in. But that's fine. You'll. You'll have it.

Oh, yeah, I've got it. We're good. That's fine.

Did you miss the sentence stems? I think that's the only recent thing. Or do you just mean, like, in general to save it?

Just in general to save it. But it saves.

So actually, yeah, I can send over. So room six just has Ivana and Sean. Maybe we wanna put them in. So I separate them and put them in two fours.

Or you can make a five. I think that's Fine.

They can practice together.

I don't know if we should tell them. We can tell them they're a special, Special Monster Group Omega 5.

I'll put them both into room 5. There we go.

Don't destroy each other with your observation.

Now you're talking like the Airbender character.

They shall destroy each other.

Johnny, do you want a hand on breakout room stuff? If so, I'll need power again. But oh, if not.

Oh, yeah, you're chilling, I think. Let me give you the co hosts privileges. You have just been knighted to co host. I think. I think we're good. There's one. There's one, and then the rest of threes and fours.

Cool.

I think should be all good.

And I'm not timekeeping, though, if you're timekeeping.

Cool. Do we need any broadcasts or any.

No, they'll just. It's. We. I was gonna just throw them in for it and because it's more broad, I wasn't going to give them a debrief. And then we'll just have like five minutes together at the end and people can share if they want or asking if they want.

Perfect.

That's awesome. Thanks. I was just responding to this. I love the one you posted, Johnny, of telling myself a story that. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah.

It's almost become normal between us now, so it has been normalized, but I think in the beginning it's like. That's a weird thing to say.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm giving her some normal ones. I'm just. Just like. You say, like, it seems like. Or I'm wondering if, like those are pretty normal ways to say it.

Right.

I feel like there's one more.

I'm wondering if it's nice. It seems like almost implies. It's like more on the objective side. I can see that being a bit more. A bit more edgy.

Yeah. Yeah. It really depends on the context.

Yeah. I'm wondering.

It seems like you might be.

Time goes so quickly.

Time goes by and call him back. All right.

Is what's. What. I feel like I can't always tell what's normal anymore. Like, what's coming up for you? I wouldn't ask that. Like, I would ask that to a friend, but I wouldn't ask that to, like a co worker.

I like that. I don't know what's normal anymore.

What's coming up for you?

Yeah, I feel like that's like a. That's like a reasonable thing to say to see some smiles.

All right. Welcome back. I'M glad to see. I think we have everyone. No one ate each other alive in your breakout rooms. Very good. So we have just about five minutes left and I'll just open it up for any questions, any last reflections or anything else that you just kind of want to get in before we wrap up. And just know, like, you can use these with anyone who is even, even moderately willing. Some people will just be like, no, I will not talk to you about my feelings. And that's okay. You can still talk about yours. You can have strange conversations with them about your feelings. Greg, go ahead.

Yeah, one. So the first of all, very cool exercise. Thank you for, for asking us to do that really cool experience. Being with you, I feel, felt like the most contentious question. Are there any tips on how to utilize it in a way that doesn't feel like, you know, threatening or, you know, like judgy? I don't know.

Well, I, I think, okay, there are a few things that I can say on this. One is that anything that you're feeling is really your feeling and you can't properly say that it's someone else's fault, even if you happen to feel it often with them, because I can bet you that there will be other people who don't feel that thing with them. And so we can say that it's something that you are reacting to and so it is yours. But if you are not owning that and you're like, being with you, I feel really mad, then it's like, it's going to be a little weird. Right? So a lot of this also depends on, like, why we're saying something like that, like why you're sharing that.

That.

And so if you're sharing it in service of like, trying to like, bring more information into the conversation or sharing something that's going to help move the conversation along in a way that can be really helpful or just to let someone know that they're positively impacting you can be really nice because we don't always know that. If it's a little bit more edgy, then you might want to give a disclaimer first and say, like, you know, this might be kind of uncomfortable, but I want, I want to share, share this, you know, but it's really going to depend on your intention. Like if your intention is to try to make them feel bad about the experience you are having, then it probably will be contentious. Right. And so you gotta, you gotta clean up whatever those motivations or intentions might be before you start shooting off the being with you. I feel like gun. I've gotta say, I've actually never heard that. I've never heard that before. Yeah, it's a. It's an interesting angle. I like it. I'm curious about what you'll find out as you play around with it. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you.

Eduardo. Hey.

Thank you. I just wanted to share a quick reflection that I came across during this exercise, which I found fascinating, by the way. I realized that in my professional life, I've kept sharing emotions completely locked away. It has. It's not something that I've been doing for the past years, but.

Like, five.

Years ago, I went through a project.

That I had to interview a lot of people.

And at the end of each interview.

I asked about how what they were talking about made them feel. And that unlocked a lot of.

Power.

If I may say it. In a way.

It created or.

It brought the exercise or the professional task into a more human level. And this just reminded me of how important that is.

I'm going to try to do it. To do that again.

Yeah. Yeah. I can definitely make the experience a little more full and powerful. I have. I have certainly also found that. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. Thank you. Good work.

Yeah.

Naveen.

Yeah. Just a quick observation. I think, along along with myself, my recent group also felt the same that since we met for the first time, it was very high level. Like, the conversation was very high level. But if it could have been the previous group, I would have felt maybe more. I would have expressed more.

Yeah. It's interesting the. The timeline. And there are ways that we can create our own timeline, but also that we can become more comfortable with our own experience. So it actually feels safe enough to start out with something like, you know, I feel really uncomfortable right now, and I have no idea what to do. And you don't always want to break the ice with that. Like, it's not always going to make sense, you know, but it can be nice to feel that kind of comfort that can let you just share that even with someone you don't know as well, because you know you'll be okay no matter what.

Right.

But, yeah, that's a. That's. That's super common. It's a really great thing to notice this.

Yeah.

Very cool. All right. We are at time. Thank you all so much. It's always a pleasure to be here and to see all of you and to get to hear your reflections and your amazing discernment. It's really incredible. So keep doing the good work, and I hope you take something of this even if it's just a smile or a little more awareness of your emotional state into the rest of your day, into a relationship, relationship to work, wherever it may be. Excellent work, everyone. Thanks for. Thanks for showing up.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

See you on Friday.

Thank you all. Bye Bye. Thanks to see you.