👨‍🏫 Guest Masterclass: Live Hot-Seat Coaching w/ Joe Hudson

Okay, well, welcome, everyone. It's so great to see so many faces here this morning, and I'm really excited to welcome Sarah and Joe for this. This really special live, live session. So, yeah, I just as a kind of way of introduction, I think most of you have heard me mention the Art of Accomplishment podcast before and the work that they do, but I. I'd honestly say that I think I've learned more about working with emotions from listening to their. Their podcast than any book or study combined. So it's a real pleasure to have you guys here. Welcome.

Hi. Hi, Jom. Been a while. Good to see you guys. Hi.

It's a pleasure to be with everybody this morning. And, yeah, I saw a few familiar faces in here. Really, really lovely to see you all.

Nice. Wonderful. Well, as. As a jumping off point, I know there's a. There's a number of different directions we could go, but could you perhaps, Joe, speak to the distinction between feel over figure that you and Brett talk about in the podcast? I think that would be an interesting place to. Place to begin. And this idea of the clarity that arises on the other side of feeling our emotions.

Yeah, I presented in that way as far as feel over figure, because it's not that figuring or using your intellect is bad. And so one of the things that I notice is that oftentimes when somebody is learning their emotional process, it starts with, I have emotions. And then it moves into, oh, these emotions. I can feel them. It's safe. And then, then they think that the emotions have, like, a better answer than the intellect. And, and is there a way to mute.

Yeah, let me mute everyone. There we go. I was just hypmuted you.

Sorry. Yeah. What I noticed generally is that. But most, most of the time in our society, what's happening is people are not using the emotional experience that you. We have as a way to understand the reality or make a decision or figure out how to interact or how to listen in the world. And so, and one of the things that I will teach executives generally is that their body is this, like, amazing instrument that's constantly having an emotional experience. There's no moment when we're not having an emotional experience. And, and so the, the, the how do you use your body as a way to collect data about how you want to be in the world? And so just as a, as an experiment, like, take a day, I would recommend everybody take a day and make sure that you don't do anything that doesn't feel right to you. Feel physically feel right to you. Oh, that doesn't feel right to say it that way or it doesn't feel right to ask this or to do that or to. Or this feels really good. And that's like a great first experiment on how to use the body as a way to. And the emotional, the constant emotional experience that we have to navigate the world.

I love that. And something we've been talking a lot about in this course is this idea of interoception. And you mentioned the idea of making choices or decisions. And there was a great distinction that you and Brett talked about about the difference between a choice versus a decision that I think would be great to, great to share here.

Yeah. So I'm arbitrarily making the distinction there. But when I use the language, it's. Choice means like, everybody to get here on this call today has made 20 choices. You know, where to put your computer, when to get on and when to eat your breakfast, how you're going to exercise or not exercise. There's just been all these choices, but they're not, oh, shit, I have to make a decision. You're not stopping to consider the goods, the bads, the, the, the SWOT analysis, the. And so that's what I'm calling a decision. Where you are immediately should maybe like, you think you have a decision to make. Oh, should I marry the person, Should I take the job, Should I buy the car? Those kinds of things where you're actually contemplating it. And the emotional distinction between the two is the choices just happen fluidly. The decisions mean that there's fear in the system. It means that you're most likely seeing a false end. Most likely your thinking has become more binary than it needs to. So it's should I take the job or not take the job? It's not, Here are the 20 conditions I need to accept the job, or here's the 20 jobs I can have. And so all of these things in the, in the distinction, in the decision making are these signs of fear, the fears in the system. And that you're making a decision based on fear. And so, so that's the main thing. That's the main difference between them. And what I notice where the way it interacts with me now is if I notice, I'm like, oh, I have to make a decision. It's more of an indicator that I'm in fear than it is an indicator that I have to make a decision. And so I will address the fear and I will just do the next most obvious thing. And all of a sudden, you know, I can go months and months without making a decision. It's just all very apparent and clear.

So I love how you just casually said I will address the fear. It's so easy. Could you speak to what might that process look like of addressing the fear to the point where it's no longer hijacking you necessarily?

Yeah. So if I see that the fear is hijacking me, then I'm already in an antagonistic relationship with the fear. Like I saw some of the people's comments in the. Which by the way, I never pay attention to the chat but since I wasn't like interacting I, I could actually read the chat for a minute and I noticed that like in some of them there's a, an experience that the fear is something to be overcome or something to be managed or something. And so it's hijacked me already puts it kind of in a dualistic place. And so the first, most important thing is to see fear as an ally and as a friend and as something at the very worst case scenario, a part of you that hasn't been loved, that's looking for love. So that's the first. A part of approaching it is as far as the technical ways to approach it, they don't work very well if you don't have that mindset. Right. So that mindset's really critical. But technical ways, it might be to announce the fear, it might be to just sit quietly with the experience of fear. It might be to move and shake your body and to let your body have the expression of fear, even making sounds of fear. It might be going through and allowing your brain to see the fake, false end that you've created with the fear. Meaning typically people, when they have a fear, they're like, oh my God, maybe he's going to leave me, maybe I'll get fired, maybe whatever. And, and that they never think beyond that point. They just have this false end of like this is the outcome that I am trying to make sure doesn't occur. It might be to realize that my fear is actually excitement that I'm. That I'm restricting and so that if I let go of the restriction of it, then I can actually feel the excitement. So all of those things are possible ways to address the fear, but the most important is to love it and to see it as an ally, as a friend, as, as something that's calling your attention for a reason.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Something that came to mind just as you were sharing, that was something I'm conscious of sharing. These technical ways to work with emotions And I wonder if sometimes it's almost like I'm trying to manage the emotion that's coming up by applying a certain protocol or a certain technique to either relieve it or make it go away. Could you maybe speak to the difference between like, allowing emo emotion to flow through versus, like managing it?

Yeah, yeah, totally. So here, the way that I. Oftentimes what happens is that people will use a tool for a while and then the tool will stop working and they'll come to me and they'll be like, why did the tool stop working? And I'm like, were you doing it to make the emotion go away or were you doing it to welcome. Like, if you want the experience that you're having to be different, that's, that's, that's the difference. If you're like, oh, I can't wait. When. If you. I can't. I can say that I couldn't say this, whatever 20 years ago, but I can say happily, I can't wait to feel fear. I look forward to it. I welcome it. It's, it's, it's a great, amazing part of life. And so that's the, that's the difference. And so, and if I'm working with it, then it's like a listening, it's a paying attention to, it's a care. It's like, imagine if you had like a kid and you and the kid came into the room and you're like, I'm loving you, but I also want you to go away. That's not really right. And so the kid or the fears, that's the difference internally, that's the easiest sign to read. Like, am I trying to change my experience or am I loving the experience that I'm having?

Yeah, that's, that's.

And the problem is that when you love the experience that you're having, it changes. So then you start like, oh, I'm gonna co opt and like, use this tool to change the experience. And then the tool stops working.

Yeah, that's such a. That, that kind of feels like the core thread in maybe all of this is like, to what degree can we fully welcome the experience that is here now without. Without trying to change it? And yet the paradox there being that when we do that, it does also tend to change.

Correct?

Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a bit. A big one to.

It tends to. Well, it's like water flowing through a pipe and it's going to flow different. The, the, the amount of resistance that you have in the pipe. Stick a Rock in the middle of that pipe, the water flows differently. And so that channel, that emotional channel, the more resistance you have to it. Like, if, let's say I have anger and I tweak it one way, I, I, I, like that's a hose, and I tweak that hose one way with some resistance, it's going to look like I'm not angry. And if I tweak it another way, it's going to be like, nice dress. And if I tweak it another way, it's going to be like you. And if I tweak it another way, it's, there's, there's like, what? Why don't you ever, why don't you ever do the dishes? And then if I don't tweak, if there's no resistance, then anger turns into that. That's not going to work for me. It's like a Gandhi anger. It's a Martin Luther King anger. It's, it's, it's infused with love, but it's a determination and it's a clarity and it's a boundary. Typically, Typically if I'm experiencing anger, it tells me that there's a boundary that I am not that I'm not putting, like I'm accepting something that doesn't work for me.

And do you think that metaphor of the, the kinked hose applies to the full spectrum of emotions? Can any emotion be kinked in different ways and come out in, in less.

Clear, like the core five emotions? That's the case. And then there's like these weird things, like, around, like shame. Shame is more of like a bottleneck of emotion.

Right.

You know, so, but yeah, as far as, like excitement, like fear, when it's fully freed, is often, you know, excitement, anger is determination and clarity. Sadness, like a gratitude and that, that. And you know, and you see this all the time with people who, like, we cry in sadness and we also can cry at a sunset. We can also cry with overwhelming attitude. Right. And so, and so the core emotions, that's the case. It's not the case with some of the. Things are a little bit different.

Yeah. I think probably the same with grief and love as well. They kind of feel like two sides of the same coin. Beautiful. So I'd love to, maybe this would be a good time to set up the breakout room activity. So if you and Sarah want to give some context. And I'll prepare the, the breakout rooms in the meantime.

Yeah, absolutely. So we're gonna, I'm gonna ask you to do it. He asked me to put together an exercise. So I'm going to do a basic exercise that's part of something that we do called the connection course. And it's, and it's seeing the power of wonder. And so this exercise is to understand how important wonder is. And so typically what we do, we go into a meeting and we ask how are we going to be, what are we going to do? What's the decision we're going to make? Probably if you go back and read some of the questions that you have, there'll be a lot of those kinds of questions in there. And, and instead there's not really this like and in that there's a question looking for an answer is instead of wonder, which is a question that's not looking for an answer. And so wonder allows you to like think about it like a kid who's looking at an ant hill for the first time. It's like they're not like how many ants is that exactly? Or how do I manipulate this thing to get the ant? It's just like this awe wonder. And so that's the experiment is the power of wonder and how deeply it can affect your experience. So and the other piece about it is also helps you. Oftentimes we think about having the answer is the important part. But I would say it's far more important to have the right question. You can spend your whole life in a question of like what's the meaning of life? And maybe that's the wrong question. Maybe the right question is as I think one of you said, who am I? Or what am I? Maybe that's a more poignant question. So, so it also helps you find like a question, a deeper or more productive question. So the exercise is simple. One of you is going to pick a topic and I'll actually ask Jochim and Edmund to because I know they've done this before to set the example. So if you can make it so that everybody can see them, one of them is going to pick is that okay gentlemen, Is that all right? Yeah. All right. One of them is going to ask a how? What question. The questions have to begin with how and what. And the reason that they have to begin with how and what is because they're open ended questions. You have a lot of data that comes in from an open ended question where you don't from a closed ended question. So do you like ice cream? Gets me a yes or a no. How do you feel about ice cream? Could get me information about milk allergies. It could get me information about mint chocolate chip. It could get me information about their childhood. So I ask. So you ask big how, how, what questions? The reason we don't ask why questions is that, at least in English, why is usually laden in judgment. So when you say to somebody, usually if you're like, why'd you do that? It's more likely to be judgmental than a how did you do that? Or what, what made it that you did that? So. So you don't ask the why questions. So they're how, what questions? Typically. And the exercise is going to go like this. One of you is going to pick the topic, hopefully the thing that you wrote in the chat. Because the deeper the question that you ask at the beginning, the more powerful this exercise, the more poignant, the more important it is to you. And then you guys are going to go back and forth asking how, what questions around the topic that the first person introduced. So one person will say something to the effect of what? What, how could I make my marriage happy? And then the second person will respond with a how a question. Never answer the question. Just respond with a how, what question? And that response would be, maybe what makes you happy when you're not married? And then the person will respond with another question. But you're staying on that topic of marriage for the whole exercise. So that's how it goes. That's the thing. There's two things that you can do that will screw up this exercise. The first one is be pedantic. How? How could I create a happier marriage? What do you mean by marriage? How could I be kinder to my wife? What do you mean by wife? Like that. That'll destroy the exercise. There's no wonder in it. It doesn't really teach you about wonder. So. And the other thing is to not allow the 404 to happen. 404 Computer Languages System error and so when people do this question back and forth, oftentimes their brain goes blank and they think, oh shit, I have to say something. You don't just sit down, sit back, let the happen, and then the question will naturally flow. And ask the question that naturally flows from wonder. That feeling is the wonder. You don't want to get rid of that quickly. That's the thing. You're doing the exercise to experience. So I'll let you guys give it a whirl then. Do you want to pick the topic and then make sure you're both off mute? I guess you are. And then as an example, let's do it.

Sure.

How do I be with the fear of expressing myself fully.

What. Sorry about that. What excites you in that fear?

So you just notice what Edmund did? Edmund went into his head to answer the question and then he stopped and checked in with his body. He like was realized he was in his head and then he went and got in his body. That's exactly the way to do this exercise. That was wonderful. Sorry to interrupt. Edmond, go ahead.

What am I running away from?

How do you know that you're running away from something?

What would it look like to not run away?

What is it that you could be running to? Towards.

Great. So that's how you do the exercise. So we'll do it one way, then we'll come back, talk about it, and then we'll go back and do it the other. Meaning one person's subject and then we'll come back. Is that right? We'll come back, Johnny, and then go back.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's perfect. Let's do that. Let's say three minutes per person. So I'll send you into breakout rooms of pairs and then we'll bring you back here in three minutes time. We'll reflect that.

It's four.

Four minutes. Okay, Four minutes it is. You should see. Does anyone have any questions before we. It feels pretty clear to me. All good. Okay, so you should be. Yes.

So I asked, let's say the first question, then the person asks me another question, and then my reply will be to a question that arises from the. The question of the other guy. I mean, is it relevant? Is it what comes up?

How.

How do I decide what to ask? Just intuitive.

Follow your wonder. Okay. There's no right way of doing this exercise.

Okay. What. Whatever you're genuinely curious about is the right question.

Okay.

Bonus points. Bonus points for asking a question that scares you to ask.

Jordan. Yes.

I found myself wanting to answer the question that were being asked back to me and I felt frustrated not being able to answer that because instead of asking back the questions, I just want to answer it and have someone to listen to me. I think that was very interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. It's almost like the curious, like builds tension and at a certain point the pop. And you're like, exactly.

I'm like, stop it. Can we just answer this?

Too much.

Too many questions. It's too much. Yeah. So that's it.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hey. Okay, Jordan, what was the emotion. What was the emotion that arose in you that I felt frustrated because I.

Don'T have power to answer it because.

The rules is to keep asking questions Right. And my desire is to have clarity. And then by asking questions, I didn't get any clarity. I'm just curious, by a show of hands, how many people had more clarity over their question at the end of it than at the beginning? The show of hands. Cool. Great.

Beautiful. Pablo.

I have a thing with questions, so playing a game about questions was absolutely fascinating.

And I realized that by being open to not having an answer, but rather.

Having another question emerge from within, I'm much more open to going places that I've never gone.

Because if I answer, it's almost like I'm repeating myself, because it's information that I've already have stored in, like, my data bank. But not knowing and just allowing something to come through is very refreshing.

So thank you very much.

Thank you, Pablo. Fern.

Hello. That was so much fun. Like, I just. I had a blast. And I thought it was hilarious when I, like, got stuck at one point, I was like, every single question in my head is like, the why or the not the how and what and. But there's a little bit in the back of my head that was just like, I don't remember any of what. I don't remember the entire flow of this conversation. I don't remember what just happened. Like, it, like, what's the point if I can't remember what happened? Because I just want to write everything down. Sort of like what Andrew's comment in the chat was. But that was so much fun.

Yeah. So what's, what's, what's. What's happening there in your brain is that we have. There's other kinds of brainwaves, but there's the four basic brain waves and sleep, delta, alpha, theta, beta. And what's happening for some people in this exercise is they move more into a theta brainwave, which memory doesn't keep track the same way. In that theta brainwave is what is the place that you are between sleep and awake. It's that kind of, like, place. And it's also where kids are from, you know, zero to about eight years old. And it's, it's where you go for hypnotism as well. And so what's interesting is that you might not have a memory of it, but it'll affect the way that you move in the world quicker than. Than actually having the memory of it. And so oftentimes when I'm doing deep work with people, I'm like, you can't take notes. Because if you engage the part of the brain that's more of the alpha beta part of the brain. Then you won't actually get the change. You'll understand what's wrong with you, but nothing will have changed. Yeah, cool.

Beautiful. Thank you. And then finally, Angie.

Hey.

Hi. Yeah, so I think I went into a conversation originally with problem solving more a lot of checklists and what to do next. But then at the end of conversation, I just feel so much loved. I feel like my life is so full. I feel like, how can I want to cry now? Does that really be just wonderful? And it's, it's incredible. Thank you so much.

I, I heard you pad with Kelly behind me. Beautiful. Okay, so conscious of time. I'm going to send you guys back into hopefully the same pairs apologies for those of you who weren't in room on your own. That was not intentional. We've got four more minutes and then we'll come back here one last time. So Breakout room should now be opening. You're swapping roles this time. See you back here in four minutes. Hey. Welcome back everyone. Judging by the fact that you waited until the last minute to come back, I'm guessing that was fun and interesting. I'm sorry to cut it off early. So I'd love to hear just one, one, maybe one or two more reflections on how that was for everyone.

John.

Yes.

Yeah, it was really, really powerful for me. I mean, in the, in the beginning I was wondering, how can I answer a question with a question and what point does it have? And even though it was an open ended question, it was really clear and the answer was just one. So the answer was given in my head and the next question naturally arose and I just stayed in my body and the question started formulating like the exact words that were to put in order so that I can speak it out loud. And it was this magical and youthful moment that my partner gave me the question I needed to hear and I started sobbing. So I, I wasted like 30 seconds.

Just being there and I said, okay.

I have to come up with another question.

I don't think that's wasted time, John.

Yeah, yeah, it was so, it was, it was powerful and I want to utilize it with a friend to practice outside of that. So I'm really grateful for that exercise.

Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you. Alex, you've got your hand raised.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, I just want to say it was so beautiful.

I, like, I feel really moved. My question is more about like, what.

Is a good way to like integrate.

After.

A line of questioning like this.

Like, what does one do with.

I mean, I, I feel more clarity.

And it's like, very stirring.

So my question would be what to.

What to do with it or do we not?

Is the real exercise just to stay.

In the wonder and like, see what unfolds?

Yeah. So typically, like in business, I'll recommend that if there's a big issue that people are trying to face in a meeting that they do, everybody asks questions for 5, 10 minutes and then they go to solve the problem. So it's the same thing. The tip, the reason for the exercise in general is to teach us that the state of mind that we come to something with is very. It makes all the difference in the world. It's not what we say, it's. It's where we are when we say it. So I could say to you, you're horrible. Or I could say to you like, oh, you're horrible. And it's the. My state of mind will. Will have a direct impact on how you hear what I say. And so wonder is a really important part of being able to be in connection with people instead of being in a knowing of like, I know what's right for you, I know what you're up to, I know who you are, I know what makes you tick. To be in wonder about it, it creates a much deeper level of connection with people. So the foremost reason for the experiment is to just teach us how important wonder is and what being in wonder can do for connection and connection with ourselves. As a utility, it's great as a way, if you have something big you're dealing with, just have a friend ask these open ended questions for a while and then interact with the problem and it'll usually be a lot quicker. Yeah. I was also amazed just how like the line of questioning just sort of.

Like brought us to the core of what really needed to be asked in both.

Yeah, amazing. Thank you. Yeah.

Pleasure. Beautiful. Thank you guys. So one more share from Victoria.

Thank you.

I just noticed there was an incredible quality of presence just in that exchange. I could feel it in my body. I was really, really listening and really paying attention in a very different way. Just like from a very body centered way. And yeah, that was just very special. I was surprised how that made me feel. There was a lot of just joy of like, okay, we're doing this thing. It's really. We're really here. We're really concentrated. That was really special. Thank you.

Thank you, Victoria. Okay, maybe you want one last Zahava, you've got your hand raised.

Yeah, I really enjoyed that as well. And I. So I actually ended up writing down the questions. And I'm wondering if that shifts the process or if that takes away from the actual activity. I know that part of my way of like inputting and make and processing information is through writing. So it's like active listening as well. But like I'm always writing notes, even if it's just I won't even look at them afterwards. But I'm just wondering how that would interact with an activity like this. And there's probably a part of me that's like, oh yeah, these are great questions, go back and answer all of them, you know?

Yeah. So I think the approach is, if you know, one of the reasons that wonder is such an important like mindset is that the approach allows for a lot of iteration. So first of all, who gives a shit, like if it was a good thing or a bad thing, do it the other way, find out, do it a third way, find out, do it, you know, record it with an audio and then go back and take the notes or whatever. Like I just say, have fun and be in wonder with it and play with it and. Yeah.

Yeah, beautiful. Okay, thank you guys. So we are going to transition into the hot seat coaching section of this session. A number of you shared kind of questions and inquiries ahead of time. So I'm just going to pick a few relatively at random. But I thought a good place to begin would be with Fern's question and you asked about.

Actually a good place to begin is with Sarah telling people about what this is about, about it, what's, what's about to occur.

That's even better.

Yeah, thank you.

So we're going to move into some rapid fire coaching and I know Johnny's taken some questions from some of you already to get started. So it sounds like, Johnny, you'll be calling people up for a one on one. Okay, fantastic. During the time that someone's having a one on one rapid fire coaching session, we really ask that the chat remains quiet. Not only can it be kind of disruptive if you're the one in the experience, but it's also tends to be this really convenient little exit hatch when maybe something hits a little bit close to home or resonates in an uncomfortable way within us. So the best thing that we can do to kind of make the most of this time and honor the experience is to really stay present with it. Any messages of support, appreciation, gratitude you want to express, please do put it into the chat in the little space in between that person ending and the next person beginning. And again, I cannot stress this enough Joe does not read. When he said he read the chat at the beginning of the call, I was absolutely shocked. So he does not read the chat at all. So please don't feel that anything is being ignored in there. I will be monitoring the chat. And again, please just hold everything until the end of the session and then definitely reach out and express your gratitude, appreciation. All of that is really lovely for the person who just had the experience to have that little flood of feedback from the group when it's complete.

Beautiful. Thank you for that context, Sarah.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Okay, so, Fern, if you would like to step into the hot seat. You shared a beautiful question around escaping binary theory, resting more in the unknown. So if you'd like to share, share the essence of that. Of that question with Jo.

Awesome.

Okay. Hey, Fern.

Hi.

Before you go, and I'll say this to everybody, just make sure that whatever the question is, that it's like, it's not an intellectual one and it's alive for you right now. So if it was something you wrote yesterday, it's not alive. Ask me a different question. But this only works if this is a question that's really important and alive to you.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, still alive. So.

I'm trying to pin you. Hold on a second. Okay, great. Got it.

Yeah. So the context for me is that I and finding binary thinking pop up a lot for me. And I guess it's an aversion thing. I'm like, I don't like it. I grew up in a very sort of this is right, this is wrong kind of education. From my first, like, you know, till like, seven or so, and especially since, like, 2016, 2017, I've been like, how can I find the subtleties and nuances in this world? That's very, like, you believe this. You are this kind of person. You believe that you're this kind of person. Um, it's all so black and white, and it just. It feels so, like, jarring for me. So lately I've been noticing that there's still a lot of that black and white sort of buried deep within me.

It feels like.

Like, if I find someone really irksome or I find I don't like them, I kind of write them off entirely. I'm like, I don't want to hear anything that you say, even though I'm sure that, like, this person has a multitude of things they could say or, like, if.

So just.

What's the.

What's the core question?

Oh, sorry.

The core question is, how do I get more into A world like a state of being where I can be more comfortable with the multitudes of life, basically, instead of just being like, this is black or white, this is good or bad. This is. You know, and especially when it's chaotic inside and, like, someone I love believes something that I, like, find absolutely abominable, and how do I deal with that? And that's been a lot of the past two, three years of.

Come up with an example right now for me, of a time like. You don't have to tell me. It just. I just want you to think about it of a time when you were thinking that person was wrong, that you did. Wrote off the person or somebody you love said something, and it's just absolutely wrong. You have it in your mind. Yeah. What was the emotion you were avoiding? Pain. Pain. And what happens if you allow the pain? Think of the person and allow the pain. Tell me what happens.

I want to cry.

Yeah.

And I have so much. And I'm like, when am I going to stop crying?

Yeah. So there's a good question.

Yeah.

What is it? What is it that your tears aren't expressing that still needs expressing.

Oof.

I think there's a grief about that. Like, that my child's. The childlike innocence of just, like, the world makes sense.

Yeah.

Like that's gone.

Yeah.

And logically, it's like, well, of course, Fern. Of course. That's not how things work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there's a grief that. Yeah. The innocence is gone. Absolutely. Yeah. There's no more ground under your feet that you get to say, this is what's real and this is what's false and this is what's true, and this is what's good and what's bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a big one. It's a reality. It just feels so untethered.

So. Yeah. So what's the difference between untethered and free? Oh, I'm asking your body, not just your head.

Yeah. Okay. Free has joy. Untethered. Feels scary.

Okay, so feel untethered.

Mm.

Don't know anything. Don't know what, who, how, what? Okay. Stop resisting it. And what's that feeling when you don't resist? Untethered.

It's kind of peaceful, actually, Strangely.

Yeah. So what is it that makes you resist this freedom that you found or this peace that you found in the. In the not having a rigid worldview?

I think I care a lot about other. What other people think and what. That I should have acceptable opinions, that I can show that I care about justice and Equality and things and not having an opinion feels like a cop out.

Aha. Right. So you're kind of going against the grain. Is that the situation?

It feels like I'm going against the grain to step. Step back and be like, I'm gonna watch and be.

Ah. How long has that ever lasted, watching and being without.

I think I'm not sure I understand.

If you watch. If your focus is on watching, being a witness and being aware, how long do you think that would last without action?

I don't know.

What happens if it's just a slower way or a different pace to get to action.

Word.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What? My experience in this is that if I. If I come from the beam place, I take less action and it's quicker. Like, if you look at. We're using Gandhi a lot, but if you're looking. If you look at the way Gandhi, like, spent most of his time, like, weaving, writing a little bit, but, like, look what he accomplished with very little action.

Oh, that makes me feel so much better. I spend a lot of time sitting in the park and watching the grass, and I feel like a total loser sometimes because I'm just like, what am I doing with my life? But I was like, I love doing this. The grass is great.

The thing that I would say that we don't have time in now, but if we were continuing the session, I would say that I would start looking at your identity of being a value by doing. Mm. Yeah. Because it's really preventing you from doing everything you can do.

Ooh, I love that.

Thank you so much.

That's a friend.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Yeah. Who's next?

Beautiful. Thank you, Fern. John, do you want to jump into the hot seat?

Sure.

It's a warm seat. John. It's not hot.

Tasty. Where are you?

I can't find you. Hold on a second. I need to. I'll open.

John.

Oh, great. There you are.

Okay. So what's. What's really alive for me? So I'm 31. I've just finished my residency in ophthalmology.

In. In white.

Residency in ophthalmology. I'm a doctor.

Okay. Ophthalmology. Eyes.

Yes.

Yes. And so I went into medicine because I was a nice guy and I wanted to please my parents. Yeah, I suffered a lot. Slowly, I realized that what I want is more important than what other people want. And now I'm 31.

I have.

I have all this career capital in medicine. I know that I'm an extremely creative person, and I have no idea what to do with my life. I, I have a lot of fear pursuing what I want. I, I love all this stuff about learning my body and the emotion and as you were sharing and as I, I sense your energy, I said that's what I want to do. I want to, to guide people how to feel their emotions and because I, I find that in myself. And then again, I'm really afraid to take the next step. I don't know what the next step is.

Yeah.

So I would like to explore that.

What's the question?

How do I overcome the fear of following my intuition and.

Yeah. How did you just do it? How did you just do it? You're up here asking me this question that, and that's a scary thing to do in front of all these people. How did you just do it?

It's a matter of practice. I mean, I do, I do that stuff.

It's.

How did you practice this moment? How, How? Yeah, you said you want, you said that you want to overcome your fear and follow your intuition. That is exactly how you got here talking to me right now. Your answer was, I practiced. And I'm. Did you practice this? How did that happen?

Okay, that's, that's, that's a phenomenal question. So I have a really strong why? And there's something in my gut that when Johnny said there's an opportunity for Hobson question with Joe Hudson, I say I have to do that. So there's, there's a really, a gut, a desire that I don't want to stop. And it's really deep in my gut that I. This is what I want.

Yeah.

So what, what, how, what makes you ask me, since you clearly know how to do it?

I guess I need reassurance. And I wasn't clear on that until you spoke to it.

There's no, there's no reassurance, man. Yeah, there's no reassurance. I cannot tell you where following your gut or your instinct is going to lead you. I can tell you where everybody, everything else leads you, but I can't tell you where following that will lead you. Yeah. When you say everything else, I'm saying that like a life of pain and misery if you don't follow your authenticity and truth. Yeah. That I can guarantee. But I can't guarantee anything when you follow your. If you're looking for assurances, you're. Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine? I'm just, just, just real curious. You're about to come up and ask me a question, and somebody comes down on high and says, who's an authority and says, this is how that's going to go. If you follow your intuition, this is how that's going to go. What would. How would this experience between us change?

I'm having a reaction of, like, moving away from that. And this is put on what you're saying, because I have been doing all my life what authorities imagined. I imagine that authorities wanted so my parents and all that. And I have a lot of inner voices of authorities directing me and me following that. And then now it feels less and less authentic.

Even the idea of knowing what's happening is that your system constricts around it.

My system. My system constricts by the image that you said that. Okay, now Joe is going to tell you what to do. So it's okay.

Telling me what to do. I just. You knew how the outcome would be, what would be the difference in our interaction. So you said you want assurances, which means you want to know that the outcome will be okay or that you're okay to do it or that you're a good person or something like that.

Yeah.

What would change about our relationship right now if you had the assurance that everything would be fine if we had this interaction? How would it change? Yeah, I would.

I would again project to you the role of my dad. So there is. There is a need there. And like, I have this constant need for permission to give me. Someone give me, please, permission to do that and that. It's okay.

Just do me a favor and just go. You. I don't need your permission, Joe.

You.

I don't need your omission, Joe.

You.

You see that big smile on your face? That's so good. Yeah. So that's the thing that's stopping you is you've got anger at being told what to do for a long period of time repressed in your system. And so what's happening is that you're. That movement of that anger will create the determination you're looking for.

Releasing the tongue, you mean?

And like we talked about the cord. And, and, and so that it's clarity and determination is anger unresisted. And right now you've bottled some anger. And that. The anger makes it hard for you to find that determination and clarity.

So the one part of the solution would be to start releasing any anger that I have bottled up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a podcast on it, so you can listen to that to get more information. But. But just notice your body told us everything that needed. You said, fuck you, Joe. I don't need your permission. You lit up, you smiled, you back, you turned red, your body physically heated up. Right. Even thinking about it now, it's happening for you, that's one of the signs that tells us that that's what needs to move in your system so that you can have that full creativity and be okay with the lack of certainty of leading a life where you're listening to yourself in the moment, not making a plan or following somebody else's.

Yeah.

Pleasure.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Yeah, pleasure, man.

Thank you, John. And also for everyone listening, I really do recommend the two episodes on the Wisdom of Anger in the Art of Accomplishment podcast that I think, yes, Sarah is just linked to in the chat. Beautiful. Okay, Andrew, do you want to jump into this warm, cozy seat in front of everyone? Welcome.

Thank you, Johnny. Thanks. Thanks, Joe. How are you doing?

Oh, good. Wait, I almost had you there. Finding you is a little challenging.

I think he's pinned now. Or should be, at least.

Great. Yes. There we are.

All right, so, Joe, a context for this is your Art of Accomplishment podcast. You tell the story of Jim Carrey and how he. You say, like, took the big risk to fully express himself, and his career was kind of going nowhere, and. And then he did that, and he's. And, like, you can just see that in Jim Carrey. Like, he went. He's like. So, you know, like, you could see the embodiments of that expression. So I feel like I'm not expressing myself there. There are, like, a handful of reasons that. That where I don't express myself. The one that's the most alive for me right now is. Is, I think, kind of what I call time anxiety. So I sort of live in my head. So a lot of this has to do with, like, presence and just being present. And I don't. I'm not present because I'm, like, in my head thinking through this time anxiety of, like, time's running out. I've got to do all these things. Like, should.

Should.

Should is kind of the. The trigger word. And, you know, so these things are kind of holding me back.

Prove it.

What do you mean?

You just said that you time is running out and you have to do all these things. I'm asking you to prove that statement.

So it. I can't because I don't, like, logically, it doesn't make sense to me, but I feel, like, this anxiety around all these things that I should be doing.

If it doesn't logically make any sense to you, so then what's actually happening?

And so instead of being with the flow. Like right now I'm working on a business idea. So I'm in this very kind of divergent state of thinking.

Hold on. I mean in the moment. In the moment you just told me that the thing is it's time anxiety that's occurring, but you don't actually believe it. So only thing left there is anxiety. Anxiety is happening. And how are you interacting when anxiety happens?

I am second guessing myself. I'm not being fully present in the task that I'm consumed with.

Okay. Feel the. Right now some of that anxiety is in your system.

Yeah. It's sort of a quickening.

Yeah. Can you find it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a tensing of chairs. Quickening.

Yeah. Be present with that. Don't be present with your task. Be present with the anxiety.

Yeah.

What happened?

Yeah, I mean it's just a. It's just a feeling goes away.

Yeah. And now try, now try to fix the anxiety.

See, I can tell myself the same logical thing. And now it makes a bit more sense. It makes a lot more sense.

What makes more sense?

Well, it's like I can give myself permission to do the thing that I really want to be doing.

Ah, so is the anxiety the fact that you're not doing what you really want to be doing?

No, it's that I'm doing the thing that I'm like. So the thing right now is like this very divergent state.

It's already happened. The time anxiety is currently happening. Yeah. So be present with it. You're you in the way that you're operating in this moment is like time between us is going to run out.

Yeah, I'm trying to rush things forward.

Yes.

An inevitable conclusion.

We're going to just experiment one time in this moment. What is it like to not do that? You just sit there without a rush, Being present with the anxiety and see what happens. Not trying to change it, not trying to figure out what's going to happen next. Just literally just be present. Be a lover to the anxiety that you feel right now. Yeah.

Things slow down a lot.

Yeah. And what do you want to ask me? Don't leave this, that space to ask me the question.

How do I give myself permission to be, to fully express myself in every moment?

It's a great question. How, how do you know that it is giving yourself permission and not holding yourself back? Meaning that like all the energy is actually just needs to be stopped instead of created like that. All the energy is holding. All you have to do is stop exerting.

That Feels more true that I feel like I need to stop and slow things down.

But who needs to?

I do.

What if you didn't need to like right now stop and slow things down. Okay. And now allow things to be slow. Even you needing to is another form of you stopping your own expression. You're that self management is the thing that gets in the way of the expression.

Help me understand that distinction between stopping energy and creating energy.

I'm saying if you look at a little kid, they're naturally creating and expressing what they want to express. It's our, it's our natural state. Everything that you're telling yourself you have to do is what's preventing it. But who gives a what I say experience it. Like if you're just with your anxiety, what's the doing that's happening?

Well, I, I, I feel very much more sort of free and loose and like able to kind of, well, not, not jumping to the next thing, like kind of waiting to, to receive the next thing.

Right. And that's the creative process.

Yeah.

If you talk to anybody who's really at the top of their creative game, they talk about it like channeling.

Yeah. I try force. I try to force that process. Yeah.

Right. So it's really cool. Your anxiety is an amazing thing. It tells you every time you're trying to force the creative process and all it wants is like, it's like a little three year old just wants your attention.

How do we know time isn't running out?

What makes you think knowing is going to solve anything? How is you? How is that question just another way for you to exert effort or control?

Yes.

I want to be creative, but I want to be in control.

What does it matter?

I don't know. Most people when they're creative, the feeling is kind of out of control. I have been possessed. I am CEOs or artists, it doesn't matter. It's like they're in a flow state and, and you're in a flow state. The feeling is not I'm in control. And that's the time. That's the first move you make. You look for some sort of control so you can manage it and then you manage it. And that is the thing that's destroying the problem. And again what I say, experiment. See? See how true it is?

Yeah, yeah. My hunch is that that feeling of time just last thing is that it's not running out is that it actually is irrelevant and it just, it either stands still or it goes so quickly you don't even know it's. Happening, but there's, like. There's a disassociation with time.

Yeah. My. My experience is I really like time working for me instead of me working for time.

Yeah. That's being awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff.

Pleasure. I hope we have room for one more. I hope.

Thank you, Angie. Yeah. So should we. We've got about 15 minutes left, so. What is one. One more good, Jay?

Yeah.

Yeah, that'd be great.

All right. Well, in that case, Ronan, if you would like to make your way up to the imaginary virtual hot seat, I'll see if I can find you.

Comfy seat.

Comfy seat. Exactly.

Where are you?

There you are. Okay. Welcome.

Thanks. How you doing? Hi.

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you, too. So the context in my. Yeah. Of my issue, or whatever you would call it, is that I work for someone. I'm like a tutorial. There's one of my roles, like a tutor, but also kind of look after this person's kids, and they are a really difficult person to work for. They're the kind of person you would describe possibly as toxic, which is a mix of different things, and sometimes very nice, sometimes not nice, and therefore all the more confusing. And so my life is kind of intertwined with this person's. Financially, I'm not totally, but mainly dependent. I live in New York because I've got this role so that, you know, I'm not from New York, that that makes an impact and also emotionally invested in the family and therefore feel a certain responsibility.

Westland question.

Yeah. So I think the question is, like, I'm unsure whether the question is, how can I begin to get out of this situation? Or is the question, how can I make this situation? Is it possible to make this situation work? Because there's lots of things I like about it, such as living in New York and working with the kids.

Yeah. So what's interesting is that you already see a major part of the. Of the setup, which is that there's a binary thought process of, you know, how do I make it work? Or how do I leave? And what I notice in these experiences is maybe I want to ask a slightly different question for you, which is, how can you be in this experience without asking anybody to change that would make you feel great about yourself.

Without asking anyone to change.

Correct.

Is not asking anyone to change. Can you. That can still involve setting your own boundaries differently, Right? Of course.

Yeah. Boundaries means that boundary says, I'm going to do this. If you do that, that's not asking somebody to change.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I think it's. It's much clearer boundaries. And I realize I have a lot of guilt about boundaries. And part of that is because the job is changing all the time. And I'll be like, I'm not going to do that. And then suddenly that's completely irrelevant. And I feel like, oh, I should have just done that. You know what I mean? Because the. I, like, have to work loads and then I won't have to work at all. And I'll kick up a thought about working loads and then I won't have to do anything. I'll be like, oh, I should have just gone with the flow, if that makes sense.

No, it doesn't.

So things are constantly changing.

And sometimes I understand what you're saying. It doesn't make sense that your boundary would be not good because your situation changed. What I mean to say is what most of the time, my experience is that my boundary is in the moment. This doesn't feel good. And therefore I'm going to say this doesn't feel good. I don't want to do this because it doesn't feel good. And so it doesn't really matter what it's going to be like in a day or two days. So that's what doesn't make sense. So how does it. How is it working in your system?

So what do you mean by system?

In your mental configuration, physical configuration. What. How does it work? What makes you question the boundary that you set?

Right. So I think when I set a boundary, I. I am assuming I'm setting a precedent, which has to be kind of. I have to have integrity around and keep to the same principle or whatever. But that doesn't have to be the case.

Okay, now I get it. All right. Yeah. So what. One of the things I heard you say was that one of the. That drawing more boundaries would make you really pleased with how you are without asking anybody else to change. What else is there?

Well, so I think boundaries would help. I think it would also. It would still create guilt. And I'd be like, do I have the right to set this boundary? And like, actually, should I be a bit more pliant here? So I don't think it's that simple.

Okay, so then what is it that you need to do to feel absolutely great about yourself without asking anybody to change? Maybe they fire you. Maybe you leave New York, Maybe you are happy and they are a much more beautiful family because of it. Who. Who the fuck knows? But what I want to know is what do you have to do? To feel great about yourself without asking anybody to change.

So what, what comes up, even though I don't want it to come up, is just quit the job.

Great.

I'm not, I'm not happy with it though.

Then you're not feeling great about yourself.

Yeah, right. Yeah, good point.

So what's happening here that this question might take you a while to answer more than, more time than we have. But what's happening here is that all I'm doing is saying, I'm asking you a question that prevents you from merging with somebody else, with the family, with the narcissist, with the kid. And I'm putting you in a situation where you're, you're, My question makes you fully responsible for your own happiness. And that's, that's the thing that your, your brain is doing that's messing you up, is that you somehow think somebody else's happiness is going to make you happy. It won't. It never will, never can. So all that I'm doing is asking the question that eliminates that possibility.

And so the question is, what do you have to do to feel awesome.

About the situation without asking anybody to change? Yeah.

Okay. And this may be a series of things as opposed to just like, oh, flipping a switch kind of thing.

It might be. Every moment there's something. But that's the question you live in. The question is what do I have to do at this moment to feel great about myself? Not what do I have to do in this moment to make this person happy or not? What's the just thing to do or not? What's the right, what's the thing that'll make the kid happy or what's the fair thing? None of those are the, the question is, what is it for your system? This isn't for everybody's system, but for your system. It's what is it that I can do without asking anybody to be different that will make me totally happy with who I am and how I'm being? That's the question. And you'll notice, like, look, what came up in your thing is like guilt came up, so doing what's fair came up. Making sure like care for the family came up. These are all the things that your brain is going to take to.

To.

Distract you from self care. But here's, so here's the question. What could you do that's more compassionate for the world than to feel great about how you're behaving in the world? Where's the more compassionate act?

Yeah, I mean, I don't Think there is one. Great.

So then what possibly could make you feel guilty?

Conditioning. Great.

So that's easy to see through. And when that guilt arises in you and you don't want to feel it, what do you do?

Feel it.

What do you normally do?

Oh, wrestle with it and gnash my teeth.

Great. So for just a minute now, I want you to imagine you're gonna leave this family and you're gonna leave this poor kid all alone with their miserable fucking parent. And I want you to feel that guilt. Yeah. And I want you to love that guilt the way you love that kid. How do you feel about yourself right now?

It's not really like I feel anyway, about myself. It's just a presentness with what's there.

Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you.

Total pleasure. Thank you very much.

Thank you, guys. That was really beautiful to witness. Yeah, this is. This has been really special. Oh, wow. Let me go back to gallery. Okay, everyone. Everyone take a deep breath. Get comfy in your seat. Roll back the shoulders. Take a full inhale and let it go with some sound. Let out a sigh. Stretch out the one more full breath in, all the way to the top. And then let. Let out with some sound. Wow. Well, I feel really grateful that this just happened. Sarah, perhaps would you like to share some of the ways that people in this. In this room and people watching the recording might be able to learn more about the amazing menagerie of offerings that you guys have? Yeah.

Thank you, Johnny. And thank you everyone who came up and shared their questions in their process. That was. I took something from every single one of you. We have a wealth of information in our podcasts, and those are available Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, that we tried to get them out everywhere. So it's a really easy way to dip into the work and find out if you're interested in joining courses. We have a course that you can run online on your own timeline. Our courses are interactive, so for any course you do with us, you're going to be doing a lot of work, like what you did in the breakout room, which can be a little bit scary sometimes, but I think it sounds like a lot of you really saw the benefit of that experience. So our courses are really interdependent. You get matched up with somebody and you get to do a lot more of what you experienced in that breakout room and really dive deeper into those felt senses. We have a connection course which is a five part series. You can do that independently or with a cohort. Our next cohort is going to be running in January.

I highly recommend the cohort. Yes, you can do the other one if you don't have the money, but the cohort is just far better. It's just a much more profound experience.

It's really lovely. It's live session, so all you have to do is block the time in your calendar. Show up. We offer a.m. and p.m. because we know flex is really important for everyone's schedule. You show up, we have a partner for you. You get to sit down and run through these experiences with someone. And then afterwards, we all gather together to share the experiences and reflect with each other. And then at the end, we do a live Q and A with Joe as well. The other option that Joe mentioned is our connection challenge, and that's just a little eight day challenge. And again, we match you up with someone and you do like 20 to 40 minutes of really basic exercises. So it's kind of like a sampler platter, little, little poo poo platter for you. Give you a little bit of taste of all of these different exercises and the potential that they have. Yeah. And we have a really fantastic online community. If you do either one of these, you get access to the online community and we host virtual dance parties. If you do the full connection course, we have some deeper community experiences available where we're investigating the tools and practicing the tools more with each other. But even in the beginning course, you get access to dance parties, gratitude circles. So there's really, really lovely ways to get involved, find out more. And then once a year, we host a really long masterclass. Not really long. It's two month course, so it runs over eight weeks. And that's got a ton of depth in it. There are a few people in this room who have done it right now, and it's really just an amazing and transformative experience. I got to be more involved in it the first year and it had so many different lasting impacts on me personally as well.

Beautiful. Thank you, Sarah. So I've just dropped a few of the links into the chat. I also just really highly recommend listening to the Archive of the Art of Accomplishment podcast. I think I've listened to pretty much every episode they've done. It's really, really powerful stuff. Well, any parting words, Joe? Anything you want to leave people with? Any reflections?

Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for being here. Yeah, this is a true pleasure. Would everyone like to, as a way to close, unmute yourself and just give, give gratitude to Joe and Sarah and say thank you at the same time as you leave. And we will close with that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, doggy.

Thank you so much, everyone.

Thank you.

See you soon.