👨‍🏫 Guest Masterclass: Live Hot-Seat Coaching w/ Joe Hudson

Ah, well, welcome everyone. And welcome. Welcome, Joe. It's, it's so great to have you back.

Good to be here.

Ah, well, for those of you who don't already know Joe, he is, he's a former vc. He is the, the co host of the Art of Accomplishment podcast with Brett, who I know many of you listened to last week. And yeah, I think perhaps more importantly for today, in my opinion, Joe is someone who can create the conditions for powerful transformation in incredibly short periods of time. And I think he really is a master of this craft. How are you feeling, Joe, in three words in this moment?

Excited, joyful, spacious, Beautiful.

Beautiful. Well, I'd love to set some context and some ground rules before we, before we dive into the, into the coaching. The first is more of a reminder that this is a confidential space. And what that means is that you're welcome to speak to your own experience outside of this, but please don't reference anyone else's experience or anything else that you saw from other people. And if we could all raise our right hand to say, say that we agree to this. Yeah, beautiful. Good stuff. And then the second is this is more of an invitation really, when we get into the coaching, it'll be very vulnerable and it takes a lot of courage for people to kind of go into this. Yeah, very vulnerable, vulnerable place in front of other people. And so I ask that both. There is no kind of chatter in the chat so people can be fully present and maybe, maybe even more importantly, if you can hold a space of loving awareness for the person in the hot seat and also pay attention to what you're experiencing in your body as their conversing with Jo. Because often we have these very visceral, kind of empathetic reactions to other people's experience. And it can be just as powerful witnessing someone else go through something that resonates as it is to be in the hot seat. So those are some invitations for this. We've had 25 questions submitted for today and it's unlikely that we'll get through everyone, but I'll message you privately in the chat if you're up next, so you'll have a little bit of time to prepare. And. Yeah, and we're going to begin with some kind of intellectual based questions about this work or about something that's alive for you. And then after about 15, 20 minutes, we'll transition into the hot seat coaching sessions. Joe, is there anything else you'd like to share as context?

Nope. That sounds wonderful.

Okay, does anyone have any intellectual questions? Anything that's particularly alive in this moment. I know there were some submitted as well. Lauren, are you here today?

I am, yes.

You shared a question about imposter syndrome. Would you like to share that in the space?

I am two minutes from home driving. Can I. I be later? Yes, thank you.

That's totally fine. That's totally fine. Yeah, I'm reading through these expressions and a lot of them are.

We can go straight to coaching Johnny. It's fine.

Okay.

No problem. Okay, great.

Well, first up we have Xavier. Let's see if. Do you want to raise your hand or unmute yourself?

Yes.

Beautiful.

Are you gonna spotlight us so that I'm looking at Xavier? Should I pin him? What? What. What is your preference?

I've just pinned the two of you.

Okay.

Can you see. Can you see Xavier right now?

No, I. I just see the. Oh, maybe.

How about now?

There. Now I can y. That's great. Let me adjust something. Great.

Awesome to you guys.

Nice to meet you.

There's a crazy echo going on. Is. Am I the only one hearing it?

I'm not hearing an echo.

I'm not. I'm not hearing you. Okay.

You hear me?

Okay, I just heard an echo. Yeah, I'm getting.

Let's see if we can mute everyone.

Okay.

How's. How's that now?

Is that good?

Can you hear me?

Can you.

I can hear you. Okay. But the. Your voice is not in sync, oddly.

Yeah. Exhibit your audios a little bit.

Oh, okay. So my video is a little bit delayed.

Yeah. Like it would be incredibly distracting to be able to do this with. With that situation. Can I offer a suggestion? I don't know if you have your phone on along with your computer because sometimes you have two audio sources. It messes it up. I'm not sure. I don't.

We can.

Sorry.

Would it help if I turn off video? Would that take away from the experience?

Yeah, I definitely need to see your face for what I do.

Yeah.

Okay. I think the audio synced up now.

Yeah, I think it'd be better.

Yeah, that works.

Okay, well, we can try it. Hopefully it works.

Yeah.

Oh, awesome. So I was asked by Johnny to be first. I had a question. I can try to paraphrase it. It's a little bit longer, but I. I'll try to summarize as well as I can. So I asked about. Essentially just to give you some background. I'm someone who's taking many online courses, read many self help books. I've tried coaching, therapy. All of them have helped in some way or form. But what ends up happening is that I try something new every year.

Every.

Every six months, I try a new coaching, new, new group. And it's with no exception, always. It always ends up feeling like there's something that's missing and maybe the next coaching will give that to me or maybe the next book I read will have the knowledge that I'm looking for. And the, the underlying feeling is one of, of there's a. There's a gap and either my knowledge or who I want to be. And so I'm always pursuing that. And so my question is.

I guess.

Maybe what's your reflection on.

On.

On that, the constant pursuit, what does that maybe mean? And maybe what's one approach that I can take to kind of move from.

That a little bit? Yeah, I've gotcha. Thank you. So one of the things about the way that I coach is I'm going to interrupt quite a bit. So that's not a personal thing. It's that I'm. I'm kind of preventing the brain from getting off of the kernel. So just so you know, so anybody who's doing this knows that that's how I do it. So can you tell me what it is you're missing specifically? Like, in less than three words, satisfaction.

Easy.

Right now, what would it take to be satisfied just in this moment? If you don't go into the past or the future in this moment, what would it take to be satisfied?

I think.

If.

If I, If I try to get to the. To that I. I would answer with.

No, there's no, there's. It's just now. You said, I think and I'll try. I want it. There's just now, like, you'll know it because you'll be satisfied right now. What's required for you to be satisfied right now?

I think certainty.

Just.

Just that whatever happens, I'm okay.

That, unfortunately, is not true. Whatever happens, you'll be dead.

Yes, that's true.

Yeah.

So then what. What would be required to be size? So I just. I want to say I noticed like, sadness coming. As soon as I ask the question, what would you need to be. What would need to happen right now to be satisfied? And I'm. I'm wondering if it's like, what, what does the sadness have to do with it? Like, I. That's not to shame the sadness. I actually think the sadness is your path. But, but for you, what does the sadness have to do with it?

I think there's. There's a sense of unfairness that I. I think I feel about suffering and death.

Yeah. It's completely unfair.

Yeah.

Don't wait about it.

If, if you take a moment, can you think of anything that's actually fair?

Think.

Rules in the game, like a sports game.

Maybe somebody made them, somebody changes them. Yeah.

Yeah.

Somebody breaks them. A referee doesn't see an infraction. Yeah, I think so.

What?

Most of the time they're not broken though, I guess.

Yeah. What if you couldn't believe in fair outside of sports teams? We can say sports teams are fair, but the rest of life, what. What happens to you, your identity of self, if you can't believe in.

I don't even know what that looks like. I think fairness is so.

Important. What makes it important?

What I feel.

Yeah, what makes it important?

Oh, no, I think it feels like the priority.

To be safe.

Things need to be fair.

Right. If you know the rules of the game and you play them well, you'll do well. And that creates the safety. Is that what you mean?

I think so. Safety is either equal or more important than fairness.

That I think so. What I'm noticing is that you have these two things that are required for satisfaction, neither of them possible. You're never going to be fully safe and it's never going to be completely fair.

Yeah, that sums it up.

Yeah. So how is it that somebody satisfied in a world. Because it's not your world that's unsafe and unfair. It's everybody's world. Y. What allows them to be satisfied? And, and that it might be just freaking ignorance. I'm okay with that. But like, what in your heart, what allows them to be satisfied?

Think they, they accept those two things. It's okay that they exist on fairness and on safety.

And so what would be required for you to be okay with it? And again, I'm going to say right now, not in the future.

I always go to the future. I intellectualize it into what can I do tomorrow?

Yeah. So wait, let's just check that one out for a second. How do you feel safe if you're always in tomorrow? There's no safety.

The logical, probably flawed idea is that if the future is safe, then I always have enough of a buffer where I'll come back to safety tomorrow, regardless of today.

Right. So. So the idea is that you, you, you forego the safety that's actually right now. Right now you're safe for the potential of safety in the future that you never really get.

Yeah.

That safety in terms of the right job, the right home, the right family, the right ways to look at things. I'M always preparing.

So my guess is that as a child there was like an experience of attack that happened often in your world. Maybe like criticism or.

Yeah.

Yeah. And my guess is there was no way to stop that.

To stop the.

Past from happening when you were young and that, that criticism or that attack that happened. Yeah, my guess is that there was no way to stop that. You can be good enough. You couldn't be right enough, you couldn't be smart enough.

Yeah, I don't think I can.

Yeah.

I, I think definitely.

Have been.

A perfectionist and been really hard on myself most of my life.

Yeah. So. So the safety. Tell me, tell me what would your need for safety look like if you weren't attacking yourself?

Maybe it's, it's already there.

And I.

Don'T need to change anything because I'm not, I don't need to protect myself from, from the attacks.

Yeah. And, and how fair are the attacks that you have on yourself?

Very unfair.

Very unfair.

They're there.

Yeah. What makes you treat yourself, what makes you treat yourself worse than anyone else in your life? I don't know.

I. I think expectations that I set for myself, perfectionist ideas, never quite, quite there.

And if you were to just go into your body, not don't your head and your thoughts for a minute, but like if you just go into your body and tell me, what does it feel, feel like when you realize that you've been beating yourself up unfairly and never been safe because of the self abuse for whatever it is, 10, 20 years, what's the feeling that arises? I think there's no thinking feeling.

You're still thinking to cry, fry, take my throat. There's a lot of. It's in my throat.

Yeah.

It's constantly there. I want to punch table in front of me.

Yeah, I wanna.

It's not fair.

Yeah, it's not fair that you beat yourself up.

Yeah, it's not.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's not. Yeah. It wasn't fair that whoever taught you to beat yourself up taught you to beat yourself up either.

That's especially unfair.

Yeah, it's unfair. I'd love to hear how unfair it is. I would love you to tell me how unfair it was that you got treated the way you got treated as a kid. Fair.

Not fair.

I just want to, I, I have many arguments in my head about this, about some of the things I.

Experience.

And I want to argue back, but I can't.

I want to here, let me argue, defend myself. Let me argue. I'm going to Argue for you and you're going to argue against you. I don't even know what happened, but I'm going to argue. Yeah, you didn't deserve it. And it's up. It's up that it happened. You didn't deserve the criticism. You didn't deserve the attack. You were a little kid looking for attention and you were looking for love. And every kid does it, and there was nothing wrong with you. And you just had somebody in your life who didn't know how to give the love and give the attention, and so they attacked you and it sucked. And it's not right. You're supposed to argue back.

Nothing to argue.

Who? Who? I did it.

I guess I. I did it for you. I did it to make sure you're successful.

You're.

You had good grades.

You.

You had a good job, a good family. I did this for you.

Oh, so. So. So the idea is that unless I'm criticized, I can't be successful. I'm. The idea is I'm so broken that you have to beat me into doing work. What makes you think I'm that broken?

Well, it makes me think you're not broken, which is myself.

Right. Right. I'm saying you said you did it for me. And I'm saying you must think I'm broken, that I can't just like work without getting beaten into it. Right. I can't. I can't be successful without. Unless you punish me. Like, I don't naturally want to be successful.

Yeah. I had to teach you. That's the best way I knew how.

Prove it.

I can't.

It's. It's the way my parents taught me. It's the way the culture expected me.

You want to. You want to be like your. You want to be like your parents. You want to raise kids like your parents raised them?

No, I want to do it the other way because they me up too.

Yeah. So. But you're. You're doing the same thing to me that they did to you. You want to change it? Change it?

Well, I'm changing it, but apparently I'm wrong and I make mistakes.

Yeah. Same with me. Sorry about that. Yeah. Thank you. How do we be gentle and kind to each other, unlike our parents were to us? How do we do that?

It has to start with autonomy. Feels like you're yourself.

How about. Yeah, how about if we just start right now?

What can I do right now?

You. Can you give me a compliment?

I noticed how you're such a hard working person and very kind to and very Loving to your family and your wife loves you.

And you.

You're a great.

You're a great man.

I can see that you actually want what's best for me and that you're. You just get scared sometime and so you don't know how to create it, so you yell. But I see that you care.

Thank you for seeing that.

Yeah. I also see that we probably really need to grieve the fact that we were treated poorly, and we need to really get angry at that or we're going to give it to our kids. That's true.

But I'm getting older and I don't know how much time I have left, and so maybe this is something you can do more than me, but don't worry about me.

Why would I give up on someone who cares about me so much? Even if your methods have been up, you care.

I. I don't expect you to.

Forgive.

Me, so I don't know what to say.

Too late. Already forgiven you. What I notice is that you're. If you're not beating me up, you're beating yourself up. And I just want us to stop beating anything up.

I don't know how.

You'Re not doing it right now.

So.

You do.

That's true.

Thank you very much. This is Joe. Now I'm out of the character. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Joe.

Yeah, I'm going to intellectualize just for a minute. The lack of satisfaction and the lack of safety and the lack of fairness is. Is just clearly all about how you're treating yourself.

Okay.

And some. Something in you is justified, that you need it or that you. You'd be lost without it or something would be wrong. So on an intellectual level, that's what's happening. But the. The big key if you want this to be changed throughout your life is to move the. Move the anger and the sadness.

That's.

Because that self abuse, all that self abuse is. Is anger turned inwards. So if the anger doesn't have a way to get out, and I don't mean yelling at people, I just mean releasing anger. Like going to the woods and release anger or yell in your car. Whatever you need. If it doesn't have a place to go, then it always is going to go to beating yourself up.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah, Well, I like to let it out in other ways.

I don't know how.

What I'm learning from this course and other things I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah, that'll. It'll make a huge difference if you get angry two, three times a Week for the next two months. I can't tell you how much of a difference it'll make. The important thing about moving your anger is that you need a verbal. God damn you for criticizing me all the time. You. And it. It's not at yourself. It's always out. Yeah. And moving your body is really important as well. To move your body as part of that, because the. The anger is. Emotions are muscular, and so it's really important that way. Yeah, intellectually. Yeah, intellectually, the hack that you can use is every time you hear the voice in the head criticize you, you can just say, I see that you're really scared. You can respond to it, because right now what happens is the voice says something mean and you respond the same way. Oh, I should, I should, I should. You're right, I'm bad. But if you can change your response, then it will change. So if you can literally just every time starts beating you up, just have the simple practice of saying, I see that you're really scared.

Okay. Yeah, that's. That's something I can do starting now.

Cool. Pleasure.

Pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much.

Yeah, nice to meet you.

To meet you.

Let's all send Xavier some love in the chat and some emoji reactions as well. Send him appreciation.

Yeah.

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Xavier. Really appreciate you.

Yeah, thank you. Let it in, baby. Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Xavier, and welcome inay over to you.

Yes, it's Annie. Yeah, thank you, Annie.

My apologies.

Annie, hold on a second. I got to get you set up in the top. There you are. Okay.

Okay. Can you hear me?

Well, I can. It's great. Thank you.

Hi.

Hi.

Yes. So what I would like some help with is that in the past maybe couple of years, I'm noticing that my financial struggles have the root in my fear of betraying my family if I start earning a lot of money, or money at all.

Because.

Because they've been struggling a lot. And me with them, of course, when I was living with them. And there's some difficult history being refugees and war happening and all that. So at one point in my introspection and self work, I realized that that's where my fear is coming from. Because I have a lot of knowledge and capabilities and talents and all the things, but somehow. And ideas and. But somehow I'm not progressing. Things are not happening, even though I'm taking the actions. And I realized through some things that that's, if not the only reason, one of the biggest. There's fear that I will.

Yeah.

I'll be unloyal to them if I make a lot of money.

Ah. When you were a kid, how did your parents talk about rich people? Powerful people?

Yeah. Very, very badly. They're Especially where I live. It's common that very rich people are criminals, corrupt politicians, you know, all the worst.

The ones who oppressed your family is what I'm assuming too. Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah. So if you. What I'm hearing is if you become wealthy, then you're the oppressor. Yeah. So what makes you want money?

Well, honestly, because I have so many ideas and I have an entrepreneurial spirit and I know having money will make me. Will enable me to make my ideas reality and to. Through my work and things, I do help other people, other women especially, that are in a similar position that I am or was.

Okay, so how about if I. If I could click my fingers and you could have all of that, but no money? You good?

Yes, I'm good.

You're good?

Okay. Maybe a few other things like travel and things like that.

Okay, so there's other things too. You want money not just to do good in the world, but for yourself?

Of course.

Yes, of course. For myself.

Yes.

Yeah. Right. So tell me what it sounds like to say, I want money for myself. What happens in your. I need that. Look, let's do. Anyway, go ahead and say it. Just to feel.

There's a. There's a little something in my throat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I want money for myself.

Yeah. Yeah. So it felt like your belly kind of. Did something happen in your belly there, not just your throat?

Yeah, my diaphragm. Something happened there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's. It looked like shame. Like there was some shame happening.

Yeah, Shame and some resistance. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So how. I want money just for myself. Should I be ashamed?

No, no.

Should I resist?

No.

Your mom comes to you and says, I want money just for myself. Should she be ashamed?

No. But I can't even imagine her telling that.

I know. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

What happened? What was that something that you. Something just clicked or some emotion to what just happened?

I think it made me sad because it feels like. I feel like I'm suffocating under a burden that's not even mine.

Yeah, that's what's happening for sure. Yeah. Hold on a second. What if I could give you a billion dollars but you had no power? You couldn't do anything in the world, but you had a billion dollars?

No, I wouldn't want it.

Yeah. So if you really feel into it. What was wrong? Was the wrongness having money or was the wrongness having power when you were growing.

Yeah.

Having power.

Yeah. So let's see what that feels like to say I'm powerful.

I went, I went straight to my mind thinking, but in which way how? I wanted to ask more questions like, what do you mean I'm powerful?

Yeah. See what it's like just to say it without any qual, any qualification. Just powerful. Like powerful.

I'm powerful.

Yeah. There's this disbelief that I saw there. There was like, it was almost like sardonic or something. Yeah. Yeah. What makes you, what makes you prove to me you're not powerful?

I don't have money. That's the first and maybe only thing that comes.

Gandhi didn't have money.

That's true.

Probably one of the most powerful people of our, of our century. I guess he's last century now. But Mandela didn't. Money.

Yeah. Now I, I just realized now that maybe this sounds like I only respect and look up to people who have money, which is not true, because almost all the people I really admire and learn from are, let's say, spiritual teachers who, of course they have money, but it's not something, you know, they went into it for the money. So there's definitely a contradiction there because. And also in, for example, in my work, what I'm trying to do, I think everything, it's a belief that everything is worthless because I don't have the money, even though I'm not coaching people on money or finance. But how can I coach anyone if I don't have money? That's the belief that's keeping me in place. And I, I, that's what I feel I'm trapped by.

Yeah. Also not true. You have money.

Okay.

If you paid for this course, it means you have more money than 95% of the people on the planet. So you're already powerful and bad, apparently. I know billionaires who don't think they have enough money. So you're just like a billionaire. So I want to stick with the power for a minute, which is. So say it again. I'm powerful.

I'm powerful.

What happened that time?

I tried more. I tried a little bit more.

Yeah. Another way of saying that you're actually not powerful. If you were powerful, you wouldn't have to try. If I gave you all the money, I gave you a billion dollars, but you still didn't feel powerful, how would that be for.

Not good?

How about if I said you could feel very powerful, like you knew you Had a deep knowing that you were powerful, but you couldn't have any money. How would that be for you?

Well, not anybody.

But you have the same amount of money you have now.

Yeah.

Well, that's much better. It's the knowing part.

Yeah. So see what it's like now to say, hey, mom, mom and dad, I'm powerful.

Immediately I'm going to their reaction because I know what, what they would say.

What would they say?

Like, did you get a job? Did you get a raise? Did you win the lottery, something?

Yeah. What's your, what's your response?

Like, ah, this again.

What's your real response? Not your reaction. What would you really want to say to them? Like from your heart, from your power? Actually, from your power.

I would want to say power doesn't lie in money or necessarily in money and power. My power lies in me knowing what I can do, the differences I can make, and just in my knowing, in this inner certainty.

So now again, can you say I'm powerful?

Yes, I'm powerful.

It was then right at the end, something happened. What happened right at the end? You were in it, and then something happened.

I did feel like it. It was more honest and authentic. I wasn't trying. It came from a good place.

Yeah. Yeah. Say one more time.

I'm powerful.

All right. Yeah. And so from your power, what do you think about making money from that powerful place?

Yeah, it feels, it feels easier and it feels. Yes. I think I tapped into. I tapped into something that I know intellectually that I don't need to be thinking about making money. I need to kind of firm myself in serving energy. And everything will come from there. I think I kind of felt that now.

Gotcha. And so. But from that place of power, just speak to me. Teach me about money. Oh, yeah, that feeling. That's feeling. That feeling is what's going to get you where you want to go.

So do I need to evoke it every day and.

Or you're putting a whole bunch of. You have a lot of need to things happening, needing to do. Just enjoy your power and tell and teach me about money.

Okay.

Oh, I'm not sure I can. I think it, it takes me back to the feeling.

Do you feel it? Do you feel what's happening in your system? It's like giddy. Do it again. Teach me about money from your power, from your sitting. Yeah, that.

That.

Yes. Nothing.

Teach you from there?

Yeah, it's.

It's fun. It's energizing. It's empowering.

Yeah. Just say money before each of these things. Money is fun.

Money is.

Money is fun. Making money is fun. Making money is empowering. It's. What else did I say? It's powerful. It's creative. It's. Yeah. Money is helpful. It's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's.

It's.

It. It can also be honest and authentic.

Ah, yeah.

Yeah.

That just came out of you.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah. I. I'm not. I'm less concerned about the money than I am about you allowing yourself to feel the power of who you are, your empowerment.

That's a very good point. Because all the money issues in my family, the identity that I picked up on, is from my mom, and she constantly portrays this powerless person, so. That's very true. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. So the. The thing. There's just one other note, so we're done. I'm going to intellectualize with you for just a second. The one other note I want to put out there is, so, do I need to do this? Do I need to do this? Do I need. I need to. Blah, blah, blah, blah, like, you set up these lists and tasks that you have to do to get somewhere. All of that is the antithesis of feeling powerful. Once I do this, I'll be powerful. Once I do this, I'll be complete. Once I do.

Yeah.

And it didn't require any of that. You. Inside of seven minutes or whatever time. I can't. I don't track time very well here, but whatever time we had went from I have a problem with money to teaching not just me, but the whole class about money in a way that was, like, at one point gave me shivers. There wasn't some task list to get there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. Yeah.

Thank you so much. Let's everyone send any power in the chat, however that comes through. Power and appreciation.

Yeah.

Beautiful stuff. Beautiful stuff. All right. Thank you so much. Welcome. Mark. Over to you, sir.

Hey, Mark.

Hey, Joel. How much story do you want?

Very little.

I'm on the hook. My own hook. My. My kid took his life.

Oh, man.

A year and a half ago, and.

Oh, yeah, hold on. Let's just. I just got to be there with you on that one, man. Oh, hey. Can you see me right now? I'm so sorry.

You know, I processed a lot of the grief, but the thing. The hook that I can't let go of is it feels like my fault.

Yeah.

I fucked up as a dad. The one thing I wanted to do well in this life, to not do it like my parents did. And so I'm Okay. When I look from where he is, I feel sadness. When I look from where he isn't. Like here.

Yeah.

And it's okay when I look at me and what I didn't do. Right.

Yeah. What did you not do? What did you not do right? Like, just give me the main two or three things.

Guilt tripping, anger attacking.

You're doing it to yourself right now, sweetheart.

Yeah.

What were you supposed to do instead of guilt tripping, attacking, and anger.

Be present. Just love them.

I saw you do it to yourself, as you said. It must have been hard for you to listen to the first session I did. I can't remember. Yeah.

Yeah.

I could relate.

Yeah. Of course. If you learned that lesson of not guilt tripping and loving, how would you. How would you move in the world? Like, if you were to make the most use of this lesson that your son taught you in a very dramatic way, what would his legacy be through you? You're thinking about it. Yeah.

When I feel it, it feels like I need to welcome it. Just. Yeah, welcome, whatever.

Yeah, that's. That's exactly. That's how it works. That's how the. That's how the heart works. That's what you wanted to do for him. How. How would a father welcome their son guilt tripping themselves and putting anger on themselves? And like, how do you love that as a father?

Hug him.

It's okay. Yeah. Life's hard.

It's fun, it's unfair.

It's.

It ends. It goes on.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you're capable.

Yeah. I've got. There's another piece that this is. Feel free to say no to this. Yeah. But I'll just tell you the story. I had. I had one of my mentors die. He was 54 years old. He. Funny story. He was great teacher, but he just really always talked, this guy. And so he did his first silent retreat and he died in the middle of the silent retreat. And I remember like one of his best friends that I told you the silence was going to kill him but up. But I was, you know, I did the circle for his funeral because I wanted some real grief to be able to move through. And everybody was sad. And then I. I was pissed. I was just angry and I just like released anger and the whole. The whole thing changed and everybody like, grounded in. And then there was more anger in the room because when we get angry, we're just. It just is just. It just tells us that we're overwhelmed by care. We never get angry at. We're not. We don't Care about. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you angry about around your son's death? That you feel too guilty to actually move and let move. And my invitation is to share that now.

Well, kind of lot. I'm angry at him.

Yeah.

We're going back to using. I'm angry at myself.

Yeah.

For not having done all the, you know, the work that I did from 18 on of not. Not showing up in my life to be there for you. And I'm angry at my parents for, you know, having done such a thorough job of me up. And yet I'm angry about myself for having chosen this path in this. Whatever this meat suit experience is.

Yeah.

And not giving myself the space, the. The welcome to be successful.

Yeah.

What I cared about the most.

Say again?

About what I cared about the most.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard to care. It's really hard to love the way that we want to love. When we were taught that love was painful, like your parents taught you that love was not. Wasn't something that was all that great.

Right.

You did a good job.

Yeah. What's the. So the hook. We're back to the hook. What's the hook? See if it's still there. First of all, I don't want the story of the hook. I want to know if the hook is still there.

A tinge.

Yeah. Give me a sentence on the hook.

I fucked up.

Yeah, you did. Yeah. Yeah. Your parents up, Their parents up. Their parents up, you up, your son up.

The world's up.

The world's up. If your son had kids, he would have them up.

He did.

Yeah. Yeah. Everybody on this call. I mean, you're not special in this thing.

I'm glad.

Come on.

So how do you welcome that? Don't think about it.

I'm just feeling into that. That this is. This is what this whole Johnny experience has opened is shoving me into.

Oh, man. Stop resisting, baby.

Yeah.

It's only shoving you if you're resisting.

Exactly. I didn't even know I was resisting.

Yeah, now you do.

Yeah.

How do you welcome the fact that you up right now in your heart, in your body, you're thinking again. Yeah. And now just no effort. Yeah. How do you love yourself the way that you always wanted to love your son? How do you love the fact that you up the way you always wanted to love your son?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Love myself.

Yeah.

Yeah. I see it. I saw that. You hit that spaciousness. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for coming up. Thanks for sharing. What a pleasure. You know, I just want to say this out loud. It's rare for somebody your age to make so much progress in such a short period of time. Like, you're. How do I want to say this? You are, I say, doing your son proud. But that's not exactly what I want to say. It's like you're. You are. It. It's really rare for somebody who was taught their whole life to be hard to take something like this and not make it. Not make themselves harder to make themselves softer and to learn to love from it. It's a real privilege and honor to see it. Thank you. Yeah.

Let everyone send Mark. A whole lot of love in the chat. Thank you for your courage.

Wow.

Thanks, Mark. Hey, Joe.

Hey, there. How's it going, Don? Sure.

For Dom.

Nice to meet you, Dom. Yeah, you too.

As well.

Yeah.

So the thing that's most alive for me is. So I'm a wilderness guide, among other things. And I've found pretty much all the most powerful and alive moments in my life and moments I felt most connected to myself in the mountains, both with groups and alone. And I was just up there a few days ago, felt, like, so clear, so alive, so just grounded with my connection to this world. And I come back into this built environment city and feel so dysregulated and really just struggling against the tasks that I have and the responsibilities I have. And I've, like, alternately told myself stories that it, like, oh, it's the job that I have. Okay. I changed jobs. Still have the same feeling. Oh, it's spending all this time on a screen. Oh, it's like, actually, screens are not the problem. I can feel really alive sitting with you on this. And so I just had this question of, like, how do I find a way to integrate this, like, experience of clarity and connection that I find in the wild with not wanting to live as a reclusive hermit and still wanting to be a participant in this whole human cultural, social practice.

Yeah.

And. And so just to make sure I've got this. That's what you want? You don't want to, like, be at peace as a hermit or out in the world?

I want to feel like I feel in the mountains while in the human world.

Meaning you want to be here?

Yeah, yeah. Well, yes, I want to strike a balance, ideally, but I don't.

You don't want to only be here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's my question, is, what's the role you play with other people when you're in the mountains? Not alone.

Often Sort of teacher guide.

What. What's unknown about the interactions.

What do you say?

What's unknown about your interactions with people up in the mountains?

What's unknown?

Yeah. What's uncomfortable? What's unknown? What's.

Oh, what's uncomfortable? Not much is the first thing.

Great. And what's uncomfortable when you get down into this built environment around your interactions with people?

I'm often in circumstances where. So I can answer your question, but I think the thing that's actually more coming up is it's not necessarily about like interactions with people. It's more like trying to chart the path forward to really the project that I'm up to is like defining the next professional chapter for myself. So it's a lot of visioning and figuring out how to do a lot of business development, all that stuff. So it's less like if I'm on the phone with someone, I feel great. It's more like the planning, managing my own time, getting lost in tasks, things like that. That feels more challenging when I'm actually in a call. I connected with someone feel generally pretty good.

Gotcha. And when you're up in the mountains, it's very clear what you have to do next. You do it and you. It's like the whole thing is kind of set up. You break up camp, you set down camp, you cook your food, you take your walk, you.

That is true to some degree. And it's also maybe what's more alive is that it's clear who I am.

Ah, cool.

There's like a sense of like, this is how I was supposed to be here.

Ah.

Like a relaxation and like an opening of ah. Like maybe it's just enoughness. Like I can just sit there and just be enough. Whereas on like a workday like today, I'm not enough unless I do stuff. Right.

Gotcha. Okay, cool. So I want you to get to that as much as you can right now. Feel enoughness. You could open your eyes and do it. If you look at me, I. I think you're enough. Yeah. Yeah. Thank.

Yeah, I feel it.

Okay, great. Now tell me what you're going to do today. And don't lose. Don't lose that feeling.

I'm gonna feel the sun on my skin.

I mean your job, like getting your job. I'm going to get there.

I'm going to get there. I'm going to get there again. I recognize it's not the question you're asking. I'm going to feel the sun on my skin.

Yeah.

And I'm going to do the same goddamn thing I was Going to do, but with a sense of the joy of actually having the freedom to do it. In a sense of there's like, it's actually what's coming now is it's not actually the things that I have to do or the things that I tell myself I want to do. It's my relation to them as, like, I have to do all these chores versus wow. I have the freedom to spend two hours, like, exploring this idea or writing. And yeah, it might not work out, but that's okay. Enjoying the actual act, doing it.

Okay, cool. What do you mean it might not work out?

Might not make money from it. Might have to, like, this whole venture might not work. Like, I think there's a struggle of.

Like, show me how it won't work. Show me how it won't work.

Might not be able to build a sustainable business.

Cool. And then what happens?

Then I have to spend my time doing something that I want to do a lot less to make money.

And then what happens? I live a diminished life, and then what happens?

I don't do enough to help us realign ourselves with the natural world, and the world goes to hell.

And then what happens?

We irreparably destroy the ecosystem and the biosphere on this planet in a way that takes millions of years to recover.

Yeah, that's a hard thing to enjoy, man.

Pretty up.

Yeah. Also completely untrue. Yeah. Like, well, you know, nature. Nature ebbs and flows. Forest fires destroy other stuff builds back. You know that if you fail at this business, you might go and get a job that you don't like as much and then you'll try something else and do something new. And then that might even be the better thing to do than the first thing that you tried. Like, this is how the world works. But. But the idea is that I have to do this thing or the entire world is going to dissolve and our ecosystem is. For a thousand years, man.

Like, this is recurring. This is recurring. I've heard. I have found I've gone down this rabbit hole before with myself. Yes.

Yeah, that's. That's a hard thing to enjoy. Right? That's like. That's like I. It would be easier to enjoy undetonating a bomb than it would to. To do what you're doing on a daily basis. Right?

Yeah, I guess when I frame it that way, which, you know, realistically, the thing that I'm thinking about more on a daily basis is like, am I going to have my needs met? Like, am I going to be able to take care of Myself and a future family. But like the layer deeper is like the most important thing happening right now is our connection and destruction in the natural world. But it's like these two layers of things that I'm trying to address and I'm afraid of failing at both of them.

Yeah. How much damage has been done to the natural environment by people thinking that they need to save it or control it or change it? How are you any different?

I don't know.

But I have a story that doing something is better than doing nothing.

Yeah, but how does, how, how has that become detonating, undetonating a bomb? You are doing something. You go and take people into the wilderness and give them a deep appreciation for nature. Any one of those people does anything, you're responsible, positive for the, for nature. You're already doing something.

Yeah, but it's not enough.

Yeah. That's what I mean. How did it become undetonating a bomb? How did you get like, how did, how did you turn your love into a life or death crisis that lasts for decades?

Because that's what I see happening. Like it's totally true that the natural world will recover. And I believe that whole and healthy ecosystems are good and the more we destroy them is bad. And I see them being destroyed.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know the deal for sure. I've spent a tremendous amount of time restoring native habitat in my life.

Yeah.

And forest fires exist for a reason. Yeah. But the, the question isn't about that. The question is about what made you turn your love into a life or death situation that lasts for decades.

The story that if I make it super, super serious, then I'll do better and I'll do more and it's okay if I'm self flagellating my life if I do a little bit more to help.

So an anxious, so anxious, anxious. Life or death. Action is more useful than action from love is what I'm hearing you say.

Action is more useful than inaction. And the unconscious way that I've like made a bargain with myself to take action is by making it feel like life or death and anxiety inducing.

Yeah, right. Which then puts you in a house where you're anxious and not being as effective as you want to be because you're looking for that place where you actually want to come from that changes everything. Yeah. Yeah. So what does this look like if you actually just act from your love of nature instead of this time bomb?

Feels like a, like a releasing and opening. It does feel like.

Wait, how is that any different than where you are on that mountain. When you're up in the mountain, really.

It'S not, it's, it's.

So now you know how to do it, what's going to stop you from doing it?

Like right now?

No, like this week. Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean.

I think fears about my own security and being able to like, play the money social game effectively enough to be able to support myself.

So again, you, you, you trust fear to get you money more than love and expansiveness, because that's what people want to be around. Right?

I mean, hey, let me pay you.

Money so I can go be with your anxiety.

Yeah, I, I, I can see how I'm committed to that story, but it's not the one that I actually believe.

Great. So what would be required for you to just act out of love? You're in the nature, natural world. You're out in the mountains. You, you, you act from this place of love, reverie and things work. You come home, you act from this place of fear and things don't work. Just to be clear, that's what you came here into this discussion trying to figure out.

That's what it feels like. I mean, that, that is true. That is true. I think there's some more layers there, but that is true.

Yeah. Yeah. So then.

Yeah, I mean, the, let's.

See, what's my resistance to that?

It's just hard to stabilize in that. I, I find it really challenging to stabilize in that feeling.

Don't let the feeling stabilize. There you go.

It's. I have these two images right now of like the view that I was sitting at up in the Sierras last weekend. And then this incredibly loud garbage truck that's outside the door right now. It's just this incredibly beautiful contrast.

Like.

Okay, yeah, how can I, I mean, that is the work.

It's not even work, man. You can make it work. But yeah, when you're in the mountains, it stabilizes you when you're here. You all of a sudden become in charge. You have to do it there. It does you, so to speak. I'll just say one more time, just let it stabilize you instead of stabilizing it. You don't have to stabilize in it. Let it stabilize you and see what happens.

Yeah, I can, I mean, I could describe my somatic sensation, but I think you could see it.

Yeah, I can see it. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you, Joe.

You're welcome. Pleasure. Yeah, pleasure.

And finally, let's everyone send Dom some, some love in the chat and reactions. Ah, okay. Beautiful.

Wow. That.

That time went really quickly. We've got. We've got a few minutes left, and I'd love to use this time to. Yeah. Invite anyone who wasn't in the hot seat to share a reflection of, like, how was that for you? Witnessing, listening. And you can share this in the chat, or if you'd like, you could raise your hand and just share how this.

I don't read chat, so if you want to read, I can read out.

Some of the ones that are shared.

Yeah.

Giannis, welcome.

Oh, hey, it's Janice. Hey.

Hello.

Good to see you.

Hi.

So good to see you.

I don't know. For me, the hot seat with Mark was such a wonderful gift because I. I've told the joy. I'm doing a lot of therapy to move trauma, and I have more space, and in the past, I would have just fleeced and walk away, but I was fully immersed, and I was like, I'm so grateful and I'm so lucky.

To be witnessing that.

And I was also empathizing with Joe, like, what capacity must this man have to be able to hold space for such an event? I. I was in such a wonder. I'm so grateful. And also, the first. The first post that you did, it's like I. I was the one receiving it because I. I fully empathized with Savia, and I was thinking, like, there was a moment that you said, like, I was a kid, and it was. It was not right. It was like 10 or 15 seconds. I'm going to leave it off as an audio and put it in repeat and, like, have it for me to brainwash me, because I found it so, so helpful.

Thank you.

Thank you. Yanis and Pablo, welcome. Brief reflection. You guys have met before, huh?

Hey, what's up?

Joe? So good to see you again.

Good to see you, too.

There was a beautiful moment in the last session, Joe, when you said, let the feeling do you. And there was this, like, click inside of my system about the situation that I've been dancing in, and it's just surrendering to my inner experience. So hearing you frame it in that way was very insightful for me. And even now, there's a lot of nervousness to be speaking in public, public and in front of a camera with a bunch of people. But just surrendering to that energy makes it so much enjoyable to let it, like, move me instead of, like, resisting it or managing it in some way through, like, thinking about it differently or breathing in a certain way, but just, like, letting it occupy the space. So thank you for that framing and just let him feel it for you.

Thank you, Pablo.

Good to see you. Hi, Claire.

I want to add invite Gigi up, but I also want to read out a comment from Rani, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, who shared that all three stories resonated and that her daughter tried to commit suicide twice. So thank you for sharing that. It's beautiful. Okay, last reflection from. Let's go with Gigi. Hey there.

Hi, Johnny. Thank you so much for bringing in Joe. And thank you, everyone, for holding space for us. This is just so beautiful to behold. Joe, it was so powerful to see you and be present with you, leaning into the really difficult spot. And I think, especially in our society right now, where we're all isolated in little chunks or just individual people who can hold space and listen to us in a way that's safe so we can visit the shadows and get out of there is very rare. And so to me, my biggest. My biggest shift today is leaning into the difficult spot and holding the hand of somebody knowing that they're not alone and that it's okay to visit that space and we're not staying in that space, but it's okay. And I guess just knowing that we're not alone in life is super helpful. And I believe that isolation is one of the most difficult things to go through in our lives right now. And thank you, Johnny, for putting together a group such as this that goes. So much faith that we are all safe to share what it is to be human. Thank you both.

Thank you, Gigi. Really appreciate that.

Yeah, thank you.

Oh, wow.

Okay. Well, just before we. Before we wrap up here, there's a couple of things I want to. I want to mention. The first is that Joe and the Art of Accomplishment are doing something called the Connection course, which I believe starts November. November 29th, I think. And I've done this course twice myself, and it's. It feels very complementary to all of the stuff we're learning here at nsm. And in some ways, it's almost like I describe it as like a training arena for many of the skills and practices that we're learning here. So there's a free workshop that I believe Joe is. Is hosting. Joe, do you know the date of the workshop that's coming up?

I have no idea, unfortunately. But what it is, is it's like 90 minutes of just some of the most simple exercises we do so that people can know what it's like to. To do the Connection course. It's like a taster menu almost. Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

And then this is the link to the connection course itself, which, yeah, starts November 27th is the date. And, yeah, I know a number of people in this room have taken this as well, and I wholeheartedly recommend it. And then the other thing I wanted to share as well was there is an amazing podcast that Joe and Brett host called the Art of Accomplishment as well. And I've listened to pretty much every episode myself, and I put together this playlist of my top 10 favorite episodes. So if you look at the archive and you're like, shit, there's too many episodes. I don't know what listen to, then this is a good starting point. Yeah, I wholeheartedly recommend and just really appreciate you, Joe, for putting this stuff out there, because I know for myself, it's been profoundly changing and impactful, and I know for many of my friends as well. So, yeah, I just want to say thank you so much.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for like, what a lovely thing you're putting together here, and to get to be a part of it is an honor. Thank you.

Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for your time. And let's end with everyone unmuting and saying, that was awesome, Joe. Thank you so much.

Awesome, Joe.

That was awesome, Joe.

Thank you so much, so much. Thank you so much.