👨‍🏫 Guest Masterclass: Principles of Functional Nutrition for Optimal Living w/ Marek Doyle

Hey, Ritz. Hey, Max. Hey, Scott. All right, we'll give everyone another minute or so. If you'd like to share in the chat how you're feeling in three words. Are you feeling in your body? How you feeling in your mind? It'd be nice to see some of your faces, too. If you want to turn on video briefly, say hi, and we'll start in about just under a minute or so. Hey, Diego. Hey, Sri. Hey, Cassidy.

Sam. Foreign.

Let's begin. Welcome, welcome. Marek. It's so great to have you here.

Great to be here.

Yeah. I'm very grateful to Christopher for making the introduction and yeah, the more that I've been digging into your work on your website and speaking to him about some of the stuff you've worked on. I'm really excited for this conversation. I think there's a. There's a ton for us to dig into. Oh, I think there always is.

So, yeah, we'll get there quite quickly.

Yeah, amazing. Well, all right, well, let's. Let's dive in. I. I'm not even sure how to kind of introduce you. I think something that I love is you're kind of combining a data driven approach with functional medicine philosophy. So maybe for those who aren't familiar with your work here, could you give a brief kind of context of your story, how you work with people, the stuff that you care about.

Frozen Rosen.

I am very much focused on central nervous system health. So, yeah, big focus on that space where nutrition meets neurobiology, as you mentioned. Yeah, very much a fan of, you know, data, not dogma in terms of. Yeah, let's use the day not just from lab tests, but equally what we can. The process of building a map with somebody. And so, yeah, I'm always just a little bit reticent about telling people I might. I use data because it would imply that there's a. Yeah, a quantified focus and it's, you know, obsessing on, you know, what the numbers tell us. And there's a whole lot more than that. It's very easy to get lost in the cold, hard numbers which just never provide with the full picture. However, getting data, measuring progress and responses in line with context, that's where it's at. So, yeah, I tend to work with a whole lot of the chronic compliance. So, yeah, that changes the way I would go about things. The average individual that comes to see you has already seen seven and a half people. So, yeah, these are individuals who just aren't responding the way they should. So my job is to recognize firstly that the body is self healing, provided there are no obstacles in this way, and then to go ahead and identify what those obstacles are.

Got it? Yeah, thank you. The audio is coming through a little bit crackly for me. I'm not sure if other people as well. Yeah, nodding the head. I'm not sure if there's any Internet thing or.

Okay, yeah, I. I lost you then for a second. So let me know if you're struggling to hear me because I can always change networks.

Yeah, that might be worse.

It's not a normal thing here to have.

Yeah, yeah, that might be worth it.

If Merrick turns off incoming video, that can often help a lot.

Okay, nice.

Okay. Okay, so I heard something there in regards to turning off incoming.

Yeah. So if you go to the little video icon on the bottom left where it says stop video, click the arrow and then click Video Settings and there should be an option to say turn off incoming video somewhere there. Advance.

Recording in progress.

Actually seems like it feels a little bit better. Last few. Last few moments.

Enable incoming.

Confusing. You added.

Yeah, let. Let me know if. Yeah, you where I can turn that off?

Under the video settings.

Potentially trying to do that. I'm struggling to find that. Yeah, I'm just going through all of the video settings at the moment.

Well, under hide selfie Benjamin mentioned.

I've turned off optimize video. Let's see how we go with that. But yeah, maybe that has made a difference. Maybe. Yeah, it's done. Absolutely nothing can. We were gonna have better video anyway, but if anyone can hear me. All right then then great.

That seems better. Let's go ahead with that. Okay, brilliant. So I'd love to.

So where were we?

Yeah, let's dig into a little bit around. You've written about the three stages of dysregulation and the regulation continuum on your website. Could you give a bit of context as to why are these important to identify and what does it mean?

Yeah, so when I look at dysregulation specifically, if I had to define that, I would pin that to the body trying to do more than one thing at once. So the most obvious means through which we'd see dysregulation is that it is trying to both mobilize its energy whilst also hold it back. It is subject to signals of energy excess, whilst also competing signals of energy shortage. So that could easily occur as a result of the mitochondrial issues that we sometimes see. If that means then there's a blockage in that energy pathway, we're going to see energy build up at certain points in that energy process within the mitochondria, thus we're going to see some signs of excess energy, whilst at exactly the same time we're seeing signs of insufficient energy in the cellular compartment itself. And that's obviously which is constantly measuring how much energy does it have, how much energy does it want. And so, yeah, that's where if there's a gap between those two mounts, what we've got and what we want, well, that is a situation of stress. That is where we see the stress response in order to mobilize energy, to close the gap, to balance the scales. And so, yeah, you can see signs of dysregulation within that stress response. And this is of course where we get into the polyvagal theory where parts of the central nervous system are attempting to mobilize to meet the challenge, to engage another part to saying we just don't have enough resources shut down. And that's where, yeah, we see get all manner of dysregulated responses. Does that make sense?

It does, yeah. No. Thank you for that. And then last time we talked, we had a brief call, we talked a fair bit about hiv. I'd be curious to hear how you work with hrv. What is it useful for and what are some of the, maybe like lesser known, like limitations of just looking at HIV as a, as a measure of regulation.

Yeah, if you were to just use the numbers, it's going to be severely limiting because what heart rate variability tells us is the balance between your parasympathetic and your sympathetic nervous system. So obviously sympathetic nervous system, we talk about that a lot. And when somebody's in a strong sympathetic mode, that's the classic fight and flight style stress response that we always imagine when people talk about stress, which is mobilized, activated, vigilant, very alert. But I think there's an awful lot of misunderstanding when it comes to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is where, yes, if we're in a calm and relaxed state, there's no need to mobilize, then the system's going to use that parasympathetic nervous system to demobilize those responses that would otherwise be needed for protection. The problem of course, is that we also see that parasympathetic nervous system deployed during parasympathetic stress, which is much less understood, much less discussed. That's the freeze type self response. So yeah, that, that's a really big deal. And so this is where sometimes we'll see people who've had a whole number of problems A whole host of metabolic burdens for years and years. They don't respond to the protocols that they should. Nothing's working, their responses don't make sense to doctors. And yet they've got really good heart rate variability because the RMSD SSD figure is 70s, 80s, 90s or sometimes it's way up in the hundreds. Now it's not because they're undercover as the most relaxed person on the planet. It's because they're deep in a parasympathetic stress response, a freeze response so unlike the rest, and digest tend to befriend calm parasympathetic dominance that we see when there is energy security, there's no perception of threats. Instead, what we're seeing is a demobilized state, not because there's no need, but because there's no point. The system does not conclude it has the resources to handle it. So it shuts down, saves energy until times are better. So that's the hibernation, that's the playing dead. Biggest misconceptions come from when it comes to heart rate variability because so many people would go online and they would see the, the HRB bros who pretty much present an openly simplistic idea that low equals sympathetic equal stressed equals, equals bad, whereas high was parasympathetic equals relaxed equals good. And it's contextual. And equally there's, there's little things that will change it. You, you diet for several days, you will see your heart rate variability go up because the parasympathetic nervous system will try to save energy. And so there's constantly an interplay between those three types of responses. And that's why context is so always.

Yeah, and that's something I love about your, just your work and your approach in general. So I feel like it might be helpful to go through almost like a, like a hypothetical case study. And you have two incredibly, I think three very in depth case studies on your website that I was looking through. But say, say if a, let's say like a hypothetical startup founder comes in, they've been, they say to you, I've been working really hard, my HRV is low, my sleep isn't that great, I'm kind of exhausted. Like, what might be your. What might be your approach and what are kind of the stages, the phases, what tests would you run? What questions would you ask? What's your methodology with overcoming dysregulation? Thank you. Yeah, frozen again for me as well.

We're looking, we.

Sorry we lost you at the end of my question. You Froze. And you're back now.

Okay, good, good. So, yeah, the key thing is, yeah, what would I do? To begin with, I would always be asking myself the same questions, regardless of the person, regardless of what their specific complaints are. So of course some people will come in with migraine, some people have insomnia, maybe others have intractable IBS.

Froze again for the last maybe 10, 15 seconds. Maybe it's worth trying taking off the video potentially.

Let's trial that. Here's another option. Let's just change the camera. It's a higher quality camera, so that would be higher bandwidth. So.

Got it, got it.

Let's just.

That just keep, keep the camera off.

Yeah, let's. Okay, change cameras. Great. That should be lower quality. So, yeah, we'll see how it goes. So, yeah, to start with, I would always want to take a look into the same question. So whether or not they've come in to deal with migraines, with digestion, with insomnia or whatever it is, the first question I want to answer is, you know, what are the obvious obstacles? So that's where we're taking a look at of these issues. So we want to first consider is there any obvious sources of stress, is there any obvious sources of inflammation? What about energy production? Any blockages in those mitochondrial processes? Equally, what about energy signaling, thyroid signaling, insulin signaling? And this is something that I would put into a very, very simple equation for which everyone with chronic issues will fit into. And that is an equation of energy availability versus energy needs. How much energy does your system think it has compared to how much energy does your system want? Now, what determines the energy availability that your system has? That's based on A, the production at the mitochondria, B, the communication of that energy, that is the insulin, the thyroid, the other energy signals, but also how much is stolen by inflammatory response? If you have a whole host of activated immune cells, then you are going to see a huge waste of energy because these activated immune cells are very thirsty. So between those three, that will determine how much energy you have. And then how much energy does your system want? Part of that is based on the demands your actual workload, be that physical or cognitive workloads. The brain's a very energy intensive organ and anyone who thinks that they can number crunch and problem solve 12 hours straight without being exhausted at the end of it is likely to run into trouble at some point. But in any case, yeah, the workload is a big deal. But probably the biggest deal there is always going to relate to the expected energy requirements and so this is where our brainstem, our limbic system, have learned through experience that certain blends of sensory input call for certain amounts of energy. And so if they've made incorrect Pavlovian associations in the past, then they can very, very easily misinterpret the signals that life throws at us or the signals that are moving up from within the body itself as a sign that they need to have high energy now. High energy either to take action, to fight or to run, or energy to fuel the mental processes that are going on, to control, to plan for, to engage with, and, yeah, essentially handle what they are expecting to be confronting in the coming seconds. So that's a fairly complex area, but the equation's pretty simple. How much energy does their system think it needs? And this is where people with unresolved stress buried in their system are going to constantly be trying to maintain high energy levels, trying to maintain higher blood sugar levels, increased energy availability during, in the circulation. But have they got the actual raw materials to meet that demand? And so this is where. Yeah, I'm looking at that, that equation and these components to then work backwards to think. Okay, well, let's now examine the results of an organic acids test. So that's a urinary test. Measure 75 different markers across the body, from neurotransmitters to detoxification capacity to reactions to food, chemicals, B, vitamin status, mineral status. It's also looking into the conditions in the microbiome of the intestines, but probably most importantly, it's actually measuring our mitochondrial activity and highlight if there's a blockage in those pathways and if so, where is that blockage? So, yeah, not only can I build a picture quite quickly of where the issues are, then the testing allows me to pinpoint exactly what's driving that.

Yeah, thank you for that. Could you give maybe like, any examples of what might be some protocols, both behavioral and potentially supplements for someone you know, in this case, let's say they have some chronic signs of chronic fatigue, maybe. Yeah, just to kind of like give people a sense of the things that, that you work with.

Of course. So as you can imagine, as a practitioner of a personalized approach, it can vary. But let's say somebody comes in, they've got chronic fatigue, so I can measure their heart rate variability, which will tell me what's going on there. Is there any energy insecurity in the system? To rephrase that, is there a gap between their energy availability and their energy demands? And there always is. So, yeah, we then look at how Big is that gap. If it's big, we're going to see a pronoun, sympathetic response, low heart rate variability. If it's massive, then we're going to see a high heart rate variability because they're actually going to be in that, that freeze response.

But in any case, dorsal shutdown for people listening.

So, yeah, so this is where, yeah, I'm going to measure their mitochondrial function and let's say one client, appro. He comes to see me and he shows a distinct lack of B1 and CoQ10. Well, guess what, I'm going to give him. I'm going to give him B1 and CoQ10. Whereas a client following him might have the exact same symptoms and a similar history, but conversely, he's showing low levels of B2 and pyruvate. So I'm going to give him those instead. So, yeah, that's where you're having the organic acids test is so useful to actually be able to pinpoint exactly what it is that this person needs and provide it. Then I can obviously measure insulin to blood glucose ratios. That is a very useful and simple way of getting an idea what's going on. That being said, in the early, in the early stages, almost everyone who's had any sort of sustained stress or any slowdown in the mitochondrial performance, they're going to have some insulin sensitivity issues no matter what. And sometimes people get very worried about insulin sensitivity and immediately consider, well, what if that means I've got type 2 diabetes now? That's not the case. There is massive shades of gray when it comes to insulin sensitivity. We can have differences in insulin sensitivity even between different compartments of the same body. The liver may be insulin resistance, muscles are. The fat cells may be insulin resistant, but the liver isn't typically, though it's a contagious event in any case. Yeah. The key thing there being if the mitochondria slowed down because they're blocked in some way, then it's impossible for them to actually take the glucose out of the bloodstream at the speed that we'd like to. And as a consequence, there's going to be leftover energy there which either sits in the bloodstream or the liver has to sponge it up, which it can do to an extent it doesn't really want to. And that's when we'll start to see difficulties with energy metabolism at the liver, most commonly going to present as raised triglycerides or raise cholesterol, which is what happens when the liver tries its best to mop up. But in any case. Yeah, we can then pinpoint, okay, we can see some insulin sensitivity issues. Let's tend to the obvious obstacles. In this case, we've already got mitochondrial issues. And in anyone where there's been long term burdens, there's going to be issues with regulation of the stress response. So it's great research by Leo Prune, Boom Dutch researcher who demonstrated how roughly eight weeks of excessive stress is what it takes for the stress response to become disregulated. And in that regard, what we're actually seeing there, the mechanics, is that whenever this system deploys the stress response, it's all about getting more energy into circulation to meet the expected demands. And so, yeah, it's not only emptying fat stores and liver stores, but it's also opening up the gut lining. And this is so crucial and hardly ever discussed, because opening up the gut lining actually allows sugars and salts to enter very freely. And it's a very effective way of getting more energy into circulation when it comes to cost. And that cost is that little fragments of dead bacteria, AKA lipopolysaccharides, AKA endotoxins, they now get into the bloodstream. And we don't want them in the bloodstream because though they're just fragments of bacteria, they can't cause an infection. They don't have that capacity. But it's still tons of bacterial DNA floating in your bloodstream. And guess what? Your immune cells don't like that. And they kick off. There's a whole lot of inflammation, which can not only cause a massive overproduction of nitric oxide, which competes with oxygen, which causes further problems at the mitochondria because they really need that oxygen. But also, endotoxins are so notorious for down regulating cortisol receptors. Now, cortisol, often called the stress hormone, which is such a misleading title, to give it much better time, would be the hormone that helps us cope with stress.

Right.

And helps turn off the stress response as soon as it's no longer required. Yes. So we want cortisol during stress. Ideally, we wouldn't want the need for it, but if we have a stress response, we absolutely categorically want a good cortisol response. But when too many endotoxins are flown into the system for too long, we lose the sensitivity of those cortisol receptors and now we lose the ability to control inflammation that would otherwise become quite pronounced during that stress response. And we lose the ability to regulate our neurotransmitters. We can't turn off the stress response in the same way. And so this is where. Whether the increased energy demand was caused by inflammation or it was caused by just a massive demand from your workload, from working 14 hours a day on coffee and a croissant, or whether it be caused by store trauma tricking our system, constantly wanting to be ready for something that never actually comes.

Yeah.

Regardless of the cause, the body has been asked to supply more energy than it can, and so it turns to the stress response to do so. And that's fine short term, but long term, it always ends up in dysfunctional stress responses. And they're always centered on whether the cortisol response occurs effectively, whether it can dampen down that inflammation, dampen down our instability, turn off the stress response as soon as it's appropriate to do so. So typically I'm looking at supporting the cortisol as a first step. And that could be with licorice root or ashwagandha, or it could be with Siberian ginseng or rhodiola. Typically, the more dysregulated, the person that are more likely to give them licorice root, because licorice root has a very nice stabilizing effect, whereas something like ginseng is on the other end of the spectrum. And it's highly activating. It also supports mitochondrial function. It also supports. Supports neural circulation, which are all wonderful things to do, but do you want to take someone's adrenaline away, Numb them. Sorry, Denum them. Because adrenaline has very, very helpful numbing effects. Do we want to take that away? Sensitize them while then switching on communication in the brain and then supporting the mitochondria to make that communication powerful and deliver a whole host of novel signals in and around their nervous system. Not going to go well if they've got any sort of nervous system dysregulation. So that's where. Yeah, it's not just a case of what is best for this person physiologically. It's a case of what's an appropriate milestone to get to, to stabilize the system so that. Yeah. We're not introducing a novel inner environment to them before they've accumulated the resources to handle that. So it's not quite the question that you asked. I asked something slightly different, but I hope that that helps to explain. Yeah. Why there wasn't a simple answer to that.

Yeah, no, it does. And thank you for all the detail and context. I think. So for people listening, let's say that someone here has been through some. Maybe it's a health crisis. Maybe they have some kind of ongoing chronic problems. They're engaging with some form of somatic experiencing therapy or breath work and they're kind of addressing whatever the buffered incomplete reflexes or traumas that might be stored in their body. What might be some, some like supplemental protocols or behavioral shifts or changes that, that can really help with that journey back towards regulation to help, you know, reduce a lot of that anesthetic load that's, that's been built up over the, at least let's say eight weeks, but most likely, you know, much, much longer. But what are some kind of supplementary things that you'd really recommend and that you've seen be effective?

So I guess the first name on the team sheet there is magnesium. It's hardly a revolutionary item to bring up. But not only is magnesium vital for mitochondrial function, it's also important to help the muscles relax to avoid that unwanted armoring that would otherwise block us from accessing the, the, the, the sensory signals would block us from transmitting them from body through the insula to the prefrontal cortex where we need them to go if we're going to re, experience them in a different context and update those old rules that I speak of. So, yeah, magnesium not only helps mitochondrial function, muscular tension, but most importantly, it has a very distinct calming effect in the central nervous system. Now, every single neuron in our brains has a gating function. And for those that are into the neurobiology, this is the NMDA receptor. However, the name is irrelevant. What is relevant is the way it works. And so this is where it essentially uses a magnesium, an energy driven gate to block out irrelevant stimuli. In other words, we should always respond to the growling of a large mammal outside the cave, but we should not be responding to the whistling of the wind through the trees. That does not affect our safety. It does not have any impact or shouldn't have any impact on our body's energy budget. However, if our gating systems aren't working correctly, then those irrelevant signals they actually get passed on. And so the control senses in our brain are just constantly being hit, hit by a barrage of different signals that are telling us what about this? Does this require attention? What should our body do in response to this input? Does this require increased energy? And so this is the neurobiological basis behind a monkey mind, the chattering that we can't really silence. Now of course there's more to it than just chemicals, so I don't want to be too reductive about it. However, magnesium can play a really big role here in just silencing that out. And so the majority of people, if they aren't taking magnesium and start to take it, will notice the difference from the first night, which is really refreshing. It's not always the case for all items. So, yeah, suddenly deep asleep, feeling what I would describe as good tired, they will likely feel heavier, slower, and yet their brain works better. They feel better despite that. And that's what I mean by good tired, which tends to last a few weeks as the body adjusts to lower levels of agitation, lower level of stimulation. So very, very good, very healthy improvements. But nonetheless there's an adjustment. So yeah, magnesium is one. Lithium can also augment that gating function as well. Lithium, very interesting role in neural health because it helps with neuroplasticity too. Holy grail of most brain research is, is heavily focused on bdnf, brain derived neurotropic factor. And yeah, that helps to protect neurons and regenerate neurons. So we will never hear the end of it when pharmaceutical companies finally manage to create an artificial inducer of bdnf. But Lion's mane and lithium are two that will do that. So that's another option. Equally, yeah, things like valerian route can be helpful. The key thing there, valerian is just a good all round calming agent, but it works on the GABA circuits. GABA is the captain of your calming neurotransmitters. You've got loads of different calming neurotransmitters, emitters, but GABA is by far and away the most active. It's present at 70% of all different neurons. So, yeah, really, really big role across the brain. And so, yeah, that can be helpful to just dial down the noise, dial down the volume. Everything is just that little bit less impactful. So for people whose system is being easily overwhelmed, that can be great. Alternatively, we can look at things that will help with serotonin levels. And this is where we could very easily go off on a whole nother discussion on serotonin, because it's very misunderstood. There are 22 different serotonin receptors. They all have slightly different effects. So when I talk of serotonin, yeah, it is a massive overgeneralization. But one item that I'll often make use of is something like California poppy. And the reason for that is because it works almost exclusively on one particular serotonin receptor. The archetypal serotonin receptor in the Central nervous system, receptor 1A. Now why is that important? Because that is all about resources, it's all about coping, it's all about providing a local signal inside the brain that says We've got enough resources to continually engage in whatever content is coming up. We don't need to call for more energy, which otherwise would be adrenal response adrenaline. Dump the sugar and the sugar arrives. Right, sure. But you've had to dump adrenaline to get it, which is thrust you outside of an introspective state. So there's no more processing. There's no more settling and becoming comfortable with the inner environment. There's. There's. There's no more calm. You are vigilant. So yeah, providing that support. Support can actually stop these unwanted physiological responses from changing our physiology. Something that might otherwise just lock us out of a. Yeah, an introspective state. Meditation in or to go through somatic sessions with success or indeed just to go to sleep. So I guess the final caveat there is that if somebody is in the freeze type stress response, that dorsal response, their system's already using a lot of GABA to induce that they probably shouldn't take malaria, but they can still benefit from some of those other things I mentioned. And equally, some people find the things that do them a ton of good they can struggle with if they're brought in, if they're on particularly low energy. And there's a lot of inner signaling that has yet to be processed and reorganized, you know, re categorized because some people are so used to just being in that external focus mode, adrenaline induced mode, which ultimately primes the system to be able to, to spot nearby predators. And so that's fine. They get used to that until of course, you take it away and now they're slapped in the face with a whole brand new blend of sensory signals from within which they may or may not feel comfortable with. So yeah, that's just a few supplements that I would use. It's, it's by no means the, the full list. Yeah, I'm sure some people want to have dinner later on.

That's, that's great. There's so much that we could dig into there. I want to maybe shift the conversation to some of the questions in the chat. Connor, you've asked a few that play into sleep. Do you want to unmute yourself and share?

Yeah, sure. Let me just look back. So the first one. Well, the first, the one related to sleep was for me personally, I guess the first question is how does mitochondrial efficiency or like this balance between energy needs and reserves or really any of the other things you're talking about, how does it, how does sleep play into that whole equation?

Okay, yeah, yeah. So there's definitely two way connections There. And I think one thing that I would want to touch on straight away is the common misconception that if you support energy, someone will be charged up. The key thing is it takes a lot of energy to relax. And our systems are constantly influenced by competition between the chemical I mentioned before, gaba, the calming neurotransmitter, and glutamate, the excitatory neurotransmitter. So they're always competing with one another. Now, if there is a lack of energy, you're not going to be able to mop up the glutamate with the same efficiency. And so it can very easily accumulate and have an undue effect on exciting the system. So this is where when a lot of people actually resolve their energy issues, they might take an item that for them removes a blockage and suddenly they feel drowsy. They might email me the next day. I've just had an amazing sleep. I thought this was meant to give me more energy, not less. And that's the key thing. There's a difference between our perceptions of feeling energetic versus cellular energy being invested in the tasks, one of which is controlling glutamate levels and maintaining activity at those gates that I mentioned, those NMDA receptors, which now mean it can do a better job of gating, a better job of blanking out unnecessary stimuli. So, yeah, mitochondrial function, if that's blocked, you are automatically going to be more vulnerable to agitation. But also your hypothalamus is constantly responding to its cellular energy status. The lower it goes, the more reactive it goes. So it requires very little stimulation to mount a physical stress response and activation of the adrenal system, which, of course, when we see people waking up repeatedly at 3:30 in the morning, the time that they're entering that REM state, the time that their system is awash with sensory signals that are much more intense than would otherwise be the case during the nights. People at low energy status are vulnerable to waking up at that particular time because of the low energy, because it leaves their hypothalamus in a very reactive state. And we're not necessarily worried if there is something that is stressful or challenging, but if it calls for more energy than is available, it's going to call for a physiological response and activation of the adrenal response. That's a physiological shift that's going to wake us up. And then we wonder, well, why can't I get back to sleep? I don't feel, you know, wired. But hey, the system's still needed to activate the adrenals and here we are staring at the ceiling. So that's one way that low energy, in fact, two ways low energy can compromise sleep quality. But equally, a lack of sleep quality is always going to see a reduction in conversion from T4 to T3. This is all about thyroid activity. It's not thyroid gland dysfunction. The thyroid gland has a job to produce T4. That's a thyroid hormone, but it's not active. T4 floats around and then the cells convert it into the active hormone T3. So the enzyme that does that is very, very important in regulating our overall metabolic rates. And as you might imagine, it's super sensitive to anything that influences our energy budget, be that sleep, a perfect example, or low calories or inflammation or stress or mitochondrial challenges. But yeah, so sleep can, can very easily have an impact on that enzyme and leave us with lower levels of T3, which is really important to stimulate our mitochondria into optimal function. Equally, we will get a guaranteed insulin resistance, very temporary insulin resistance that's resolved just by getting a good night's sleep. And so, yeah, that can play with energy availability, the communication throughout the body. So yeah, it's definitely something that we want to consider. And I can see in the questions there was mention of, yeah, having young ones, which of course, yeah, as the father of a 2 year old and 10 weeks away from, from having a newborn, I'm very sensitive to that. I understand that. And so there is a certain point at which we have to accept what will be, will be. It won't be this young forever. But also we can compensate and so mainly that by making sure that there isn't already massive obstacles at the mitochondria which are then exaggerated. But also we can look at compound compensating in the form of say, cold showers. Cold showers will reverse insulin sensitivity with more power than almost every other intervention. It's actually really impressive when you look at the difference in someone's blood sugar levels in about three, four hours after a cold shower. It really has quite effective. Yeah, impact that. And by this, I'm not saying you need to be a marine and brace yourself. Every morning you can have a normal shower with three rounds, three blasts of 20 seconds, 30 seconds, 40 seconds cold water, which is a more civilized way to go about it, but still effective. And failing that, you know, you can always have some coffee. But, but yeah, so there are definitely, you know, little things that we, we can do making sure that we're moving so that the insulin sensitivity is null and void. But, but yeah, the most powerful Thing will always be make sure you're not starting at a disadvantage because most people are.

Yeah, thank you for that answer. So there's been, there's a question from Max and I'd like to tie, tie his question in with, with perhaps like some general recommendations for tests that people can do kind of in their own time to start to build up a little bit of their own personal profile and maybe create a protocol that's specific for them. You already mentioned the organic acids test, but what are some other kind of accessible to the public tests or data that people can find so that they can then kind of create their own set of nervous system regulating protocols.

So yeah, obviously I mentioned organic acids test. I would always suggest that to be number one purely because there are always going to be times where there's intricacies within each test that the automated printouts don't touch on. But that being said, there's always at least half of what I can extract from it. Anyone can extract from it and I can extract a ton from it. So half of that is still so useful. So yeah, absolutely suggest that as one of the options. So to a fatty acids profile. Fatty acids profile will allow you to see is there a failure of various enzymes to convert certain fats in between one another and if so, what do we know about that enzyme? Is it insulin responsive? Does that tell us that there's insulin insensitivity issue? Equally, does it tell us about the health of key parts of the cells that are responsible, responsible for certain fats? If so, there's complex and cool things that I can do. But most people can get good results simply by avoiding certain fatty acids that, that challenge those parts of the cells. So yeah, that would be another useful one. Stool testing is very, very interesting as well. So there's, there's a lot of good options now that use PCR techniques, which means that rather than taking a store, growing it in a lab, which is a very different environment to a human gut, instead the PCR uses genetic sequencing so that we can actually just count how many cells are belonging to this bacterial class were there, how many cells belonging to this fungal class were there? So we can actually get a really nice idea of exactly what, what the ecology of the gut is actually like. And if there's a whole ton of bacteria that's out of balance, well then we know we want to take option most of the good stool tests, for example, Genova's GI effects that will also provide us with digestive markers so that we can see. Okay, is it a Case we need to support the bile. If so, there are bile supplements that would do just that. We can also look at things like artichoke or dandelion. Alternatively, maybe it's a pancreatic enzyme issue, in which case we can take a look at temporarily supporting that with guess what? Pancreatic enzymes. So, yeah, that's where there is some massive value in those tests. You can do red blood cell mineral testing to get an idea of that status. You equally going to your doctor and getting good old iron panel would be handy. So that's serum ion and transferrin and ferritin. The first two markers relate to what's in your bloodstream. The last one, ferritin, relates to how much is in storage. That combined with copper, can tell us an awful lot about what our body's doing with oxygen. Because if it's moving oxygen in the body, it's an iron protein, no exceptions. If it's using oxygen in the body, it's a copper protein, no exceptions. So there's this really vital triangular relationship between copper, iron and oxygen. So. So, yeah, so those are a whole load of tests that I would say, yeah, these are, these are really cool. I would very rarely venture to the more complex testing, the more nuance and specialist zones before I've actually got those under my belt with somebody. And most people will never need more than that and good, clear observation. And of course it's always going to be the case. This is all I've done for 18 years. I. And yeah, I will likely be able to extract more information out of it. I am actually in the process of setting up a website to try and democratize medicine and that's going to essentially, yeah, give people free access to summaries of what does each test result mean. But importantly, it's going to have questions underneath to contextualize what it means to you. Rather than if high, take this, if low, remove that.

Yeah, I mean that would be incredibly useful and effective when that resource goes live. So I'm conscious of time. Do you have a hard stop in a minute or so?

No.

Okay, cool. All right, well, there's a few more questions in the chat. One from Brad. Brad, do you want to share it just there with us?

Yeah, I don't feel super comfortable sharing, but I've signed myself up to do a body cleanse that includes an enema and I'm a little bit scared, but it was recommended to me by somebody I trust. So I was just wondering if you ever recommend that to clients as a way to detoxify or reset the liver. So if somebody has spent several decades in the western world eating a western diet, it's highly likely that they've never really been hungry. And humans have evolved in conditions that are very different to that. We have evolved in conditions where we would have periodic periods of fasting and feasting. And so for a lot of people, just several days without food can actually be really helpful. But. And you knew there was going to be a but not eating is stressful, you know, that is a challenge to the system. And so it's important we recognize that if somebody is, you know, generally pretty okay but subject to the usual low grade inflammatory over nutrition in your western world, somebody without any chronic health issues in the classic sense, but just hasn't quite quite felt right for ages, they'll probably do well from fasting and similar procedures. If on the other hand, they have a, you know, a number of health challenges, if there's a whole lot of unexplained symptoms, I'd be very weary of it. Fasting has become very popular in the alternative health sphere in recent years and the number of people that I see who've been harmed by fasting dramatically outweighs the number of people who've been helped. But it's still a very valid tool that has great use and it's something that I do end up recommending a lot. But you. Yeah, the key thing being is there dysregulation in the system if somebody has the freeze response going on that is only there because of a distinct lack of energy, a massive lack of energy relative to demands, they will always do badly on fasting or anything that uses fasting as a base. So those are individuals that definitely want to avoid it until their system has mobilized. And yeah, they've suddenly got access to energy because if you can't mobilize the energy, it's, everything's going to get a whole lot worse when you enter a phase without any energy coming in. So I hope that sort of clarifies to the best that I can without delving into all the nuanced details why it can be good, it can be a problem and hopefully, yeah, you can see where you, you sit in that. As for enemas, I only really know two types of people. Those who've never tried them and those who really like them. So yeah, it's, it's something that, yeah, most people will be quite apprehensive about for obvious reasons. But yeah, I can count on, on one hand how many people in the last 18 years have actually Undertaken them and said, yeah, it's not for me. So, yeah. And enemas, specifically using the green coffee, high palmitic acid content. Those palmitic acids are very good at stimulating a very particular enzyme, glutathione S transferase, which has quite powerful detoxification capacity. Alongside that triggers the squeezing of the gallbladder. And again, unless somebody's in a freeze state where there is no investment in their intestines and their whole GI tract as a whole, most people will actually be able to feel the twitching in their gallbladder in the midst of that. Which, yeah, most people quite, quite like it shows it's doing something. But yeah, so that can be quite powerful. That being said, a lot of people find the first and maybe the second time they do one, they'll be lying down for the rest of the day. They'll feel good, but they won't be doing much.

All right, thank you so much. Norma, you had a question, do you want to share it here?

Yeah, I had a question about omega 3s, specifically about fish oil. Like what are your thoughts about it? Would you recommend taking it like a supplement or what sources of omega 3s do you recommend? So providing somebody's consuming oily fish two or three times a week, then I would not recommend an additional fish oil supplement. There are some very specific conditions which are normally inflammatory conditions where there's very specific enzymes that are turning omega 6 oils into inflammatory mediators and omega 3s can actually step in and compete for binding with those enzymes and thus have a really potent blocking effect. However, I would always be very cautious about high dose fish oil. Our system categorically needs omega 3s. Fish oils are all wonderful way to deliver them. But yeah, there isn't much benefit going beyond what we actually need. The only factor that would call for say 2 grams a day versus less than a gram, something that you would easily achieve through dietary intake, provided of course oily fish are in your diet, is if somebody has had years and years, years of eating tons of omega sixes because they can compete for the same pathway. So that's where I would look at just upping it modestly. But yeah, it's a very good example of the more you consume, it isn't necessarily better because they are unstable oils. The body does stabilize them, but it uses up fat soluble antioxidants to do so. So I'd rather not tax that store unless there is a very specific call to do so. So yes, a gram a day is going to see most people absolutely fine, but they won't even need that if they are consuming oily fish.

Wonderful. Thank you so much. And Scott, you had a question about B vitamins. Do you want to share that? Yeah.

Well, you mentioned, you know, some people, their tests indicate B1, some people, you said B12. What do you think of like the shotgun approach, which is just, just take a B complex that has them all. So I will often recommend a B complex, especially if I get a test result which shows low B1 and low B2 and low B3 or various combinations thereof. If you're using individual B vitamins over a long period of time in high doses, you will normally see an imbalance in B vitamin status. So if somebody has a specific therapeutic need for say B1, like I mentioned earlier, then I will typically start them with just B1 because especially in the early stages, this is when their system has the least resources. And I want to avoid shotgun approaches purely because the more changes we make in a quick period of time, even if it's a really good change for them, it's still going to change their inner environment. It's still going to unleash a whole wave of novel sensory signals that their system now needs to work out. What does this mean? Does this have any implications for our body's energy budget? Do we need to respond to this? And of course, human nervous systems hate unquantified threats. And so all these novel sensations of the definition of unquantified. So if they're in a low energy status, we really want to avoid taxing their energy by giving them all of these new signals to deal with. And that's what happens when we switch people's central nervous systems on. So yes, in those situations, I may well start with just what we know that they need. And then at the end of that first round where I've tended to, what we know they need are the mitochondria. What we know they might need to calm down inflammation, what we know they might need for adrenal support, any obvious digestive support, any obvious changes in terms of sleep patterns or indeed supplements that will help that, then I will probably look at adding in a B complex alongside that should be relatively moderately dosed, but I'll probably go for the active forms. I like using food form B complexes, which they're not exactly the same as real food, but they will provide the active forms of folate or the B6 or B12. So we're not having to cross our fingers and hope that the enzymatic pathways will activate it in the body.

Awesome. Thank you very Much. And then final question, I believe from Stefania. Do you want to share that here? Asking about magnesium and the impact on calcium?

Yes, basically I, I love taking magnesium and the last few years I took it like every day. And my doctor said, general physician, he said I would not recommend taking it every day because I'm concerned it might impact your calcium levels and it might throw your system off. So I was curious on what's your take on that?

The short answer is it's a theoretical concern which just doesn't play out in reality. So magnesium and calcium, they both share the same transporters in the intestines. And so for that reason it's theoretically possible that if you took massive doses of magnesium with every meal that contained calcium, that you would end up missing out on calcium absorption and become deficient. Now the key thing there is that there's not good tests for calcium deficiency because as soon as the calcium level drops in our bloodstream, the body just takes it from the bones. It's a big storage zone of calcium. And so yeah, you would eventually see a reduced density in your bones if that was to be the case. 18 years in constantly getting all of the data from the various people I've worked with, how many people have been taking 4 or 500 milligrams of magnesium every single day for years at a time? Most people I work with, how many people have ever run into any low calcium issues? Zero. None. It's never happened. So yes, I'm not concerned about that. Not only because, well, the reality tells us we just don't need to worry about it. But equally the, the biggest concern is are we getting enough magnesium? Without wishing to go off on a tangent, there's only two major studies of the nutrient copies content of our foods. This is the McCants and Widdowson surveys. One was undertaken in 1941 in the middle of the war trying to work out what foods do we actually recommend based on what we've got access to right now. But that was actually subject to a follow up in 2008. And what we can see is most minerals are in lower supply now than they were in 1941 and it's around about 10, 20%. But magnesium is the one that's really plummeted. So this is one that unless you grow your own food on soil that is sufficiently nourished with magnesium that's been managed effectively, even if you're making great choices, you are still going to be consuming substantially less magnesium than your grandparents. And not only that, magnesium is one of the Nutrients in our body that's used up quicker when we're under stress or when we hold physical tension or when there's oxidative stress. So any inflammatory issue is going to deplete us of magnesium much quicker than ever before. This is why magnesium is the single easiest route to turn people who are like, oh, you know, I love the idea of nutrition, nutrition, but you know, it doesn't really, you know, do much. I'm referring to my best friend's mum at this point and I said, I reckon magnesium will change your life. And after a year where I'd occasionally bumped into her and she'd given me the latest update on our sleep problems, she relented, she took it and she's like, I didn't realize it was going to be this life changing. I was like, well, I did say it was going to change your life to which you recognize that. Yeah, I did actually say that. But it's always the most powerful for normal, regular people who don't really have any health issues, but potentially have a bit of muscular tension in the neck, maybe they urinate too frequently, their sleep quality is poor. Those people, they feel it. So, yeah, there's a long winded way of saying, yes, I understand why, you know, he said that, but it just, I have never been able to find even a smidgen of evidence that it's a concern. Humans did really, really well on much lower calcium intake for the first 391,000 years of human evolution. Then about 99,000 years ago we started domesticating cattle, our calcium consumption went up. But yeah, the idea that we need calcium supplements has been disproven with every single study that's looked into. Yeah, their long term effect on bone health. We need calcium, but we also need magnesium, boron, vitamin D3, vitamin K2 and zinc. These are all crucial. And magnesium is so often the rate limiting factor. So many people, they've been coming to me with poor bone health, they're taking calcium supplements and I remove them and I give them magnesium alongside a nice holistic approach which includes plenty of green leafies for that calcium in natural form. And six months later, for the first time in 20 years of tracking, their bone density has increased.

Thank you so much for that answer. And I've also linked in a, a piece on. It's like a beginner's guide to magnesium from a guy called Grimhood. And he, he actually recommends, he recommends taking from the research he saw 5-10mg of magnesium per pound of body weight, which is Actually a lot more than the average kind of recommendations. And so I, I guess, I guess I'd say. And I, I personally use Mag Breakthrough. And this, this kind of ties into Scott's question. And let's, I think, let's make this the, the final question of the day. He's asked about buying the best that I can afford. But is there any downside to taking a dirty vitamin like a chewable or a drugstore private label?

Yes. So there's two main downsides. One is that it will typically contain iron in ferrous sulfate form or ferrous gluconate form. And that's just something we don't want in our body. We. Yeah, there are certain times when people would benefit from iron supplementation, but most of the time all they're doing is creating rusting in the body. Free iron that's not attached to proteins in the body is super reactive and it will turn into my language, hydroxyl radicals, in the world's normal language, rust. You don't want that in your body. And that's the reason why so many people get constipated after taking iron supplements.

Interesting.

Now, there's not a huge amount in most multivitamins that you'll find in the, in the Flintstones brand or, yeah, various other, you know, smiley characters on the front. But yeah, that's one obvious downside. The, the main downside beyond that is that they're not likely to do much. So what we tend to find that almost exclusively 100% RDA. So you'll have a list of exactly 17 items, which is the list of what the FDA, of course, when has the FDA ever been wrong about health? But yeah, the FDA has got a list of 17 nutrients and the recommended daily intake and they just provide 100 of that, nothing else in terribly absorbable forms like magnesium oxide, which is cheapest chips to produce, but only 4% absorption in baseline conditions versus over 10 times that with better quality forms. It will provide you with one point something milligram of lab form. Vitamin B6, pyridoxyl, sorry, pyridoxy, not pyridoxyl 5 phosphate, the active form, which you might find 6, 7 times the amount in a more intelligently produced item. So, yeah, as much as I would love to say, do you know what, just do your best, it would be better off just to, if you had a really limited budget, start with magnesium and yeah, work your way down from, from there. But yeah, quality does matter, unfortunately, because of the absorption, because of the form. It's in So I hope that helps.

Well, thank you so much for your time. This has been such a friggin masterclass and I really appreciate the depth and the level of detail that you've given in these answers. For people that are curious to just to learn more about your work. I know you have the academy, I know you work one on one with, with some people as well. What would be some resources, some things you'd like to point people to. And I'll share these links in the, in the notes as well. Here's a link to your website. I'd also really recommend people check out the. There's a few case studies that are shared on your, on your site as well and I'm going to link those in the chat here as well because I think they just for me they kind of go to like how much in depth, kind of like in the weeds details you go into and it's, it's really, really impressive.

Well I put the case studies on there because sometimes people say how long does it take to get well? And my answer is always where are we starting at? What are the obstacles? What obstacles will we find when we switch your central nervous system on and you essentially from, from my clinical perspective become a brand new human. Yeah. So we, we need to do things at different stages. And so yes, those case histories, I hope they're useful to help fully illustrate how it's not what's good and what's bad, it's when is something going to be helpful, when do we know we want to bring something in but we need to remove obstacles so that it has a fair chance to have the beneficial effects we want. But yes. So my website is marikdoyle.com I've got a lot of articles on there, information on one to one work, information on the Academy. So if anybody is a health practitioner or training to be or wants to train to be one, then drop me a line on there. I'm on Instagram sometimes, kind of sort of until I finally just accept the reality and move on. But that's Marik Doyle nutrition and I will soon have a substack ready to go. So gonna do that transition that may be maybe out by the end of the week. But generally speaking what that means is in a month's time I'll be close to getting it sorted. But yeah, I'll, I'll make an announcement as and when that is ready for viewing pleasure.

Amazing. Well yeah, thank you so much for your time. I know it's getting late over there as well, but let's let's all unmute at end.

The.

The end and say thank you, Marek. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to you all for coming and turning up. I very much enjoyed it. So until next time.

Awesome. Until next time. Ciao.