👨‍🏫 Guest Masterclass: The Eyes as the Windows of our Brain w/ Tali Kimelman and Lucia Bruce

Okay, so now that I'm recording, I'm gonna say again that it's gonna be nice if you can have some pen and paper that we're gonna use. And also if you can pick an object from around your space that we're gonna look at at some point. And if possible, the object shouldn't be your phone, should be something else. Okay, so my name is Tali. I'm a photographer and a computer engineer and also almost an Alexander technic teacher. I'm graduating in a couple of weeks and Lucia is here with me.

Hi, I'm Lucia. I'm an Alexander technique teacher for a few years and musician and very interested in visual arts also. So glad to be with you today.

Okay, and the idea today is to look at the use of our eyes. Because we use our eyes all the time to look and to see the world. But we don't think much about how we're using them. And basically our relationship with our eyes, like how we make use of them, can really change, well, the regulation of our nervous system, which is what interests us today. So first of all, we're gonna invite you to a meditation. And yeah, the idea is at first to notice how you are right now. So that we can compare later as we are working with our eyes. So just notice, like maybe you can think of three words, how you're feeling, how is everything inside? Use your interoception. And yeah, we just want to have the reference to be able to compare later. So the session today is about the eyes and attention. So what we were going to do is to pay attention to our visual system in the context of our balance in space. So right now you can. Basically we're going to bring our attention to the eyes. And the first thing we can do is remember that our eyes don't see. We see with the brain, we see with the lower visual cortex, which is down here around the base of the cranium. The eyes only receive the light. We don't really have to do anything to see. We can just receive the scene that is in front of us and let the light come inside. And the light will come inside if we let it. And it will construct the image that we see. So what we want to do is just allow our eyes to see what's in front of us. So the first thing we can do is just soften our eyes. Take a moment there and think of our eyes softening. Let them be supported in their sockets. Picture the eyeballs resting on their sockets. You can also soften your forehead, your cheeks, you can kind of think of having some tone in your cheeks and start letting the air come inside the nostrils for breathing. There's also. You don't need to do anything. You can let the air come in, allow it to come in. And whenever you feel like exhaling, you just let it come out. And you can see how the air coming in sometimes affects the throat. A level maybe. And you can think of the space behind your eyes and just again, let the scene that is in front of you appear in front of you. The part of the visible world and without moving the eyeballs. We invite you to be aware of the space around. Just be aware of the distance between yourself in the front and the computer, the distance between you and a wall that's in front of you. I don't know, whatever you have in front of you, you can become aware of the space that's also of the space that is to the right and to the left and up and down. So we're bringing here our awareness to our balance in space like this, the space that we occupy in the room that we're in. And we can now refresh our connection with light and darkness. We can for a moment be grateful for the light that is letting us see. And seeing vision is just very pleasurable. When we give ourselves time to see, we are not like looking at whatever is in front of us and putting a label or a name to to it. When we do that, sometimes we stop seeing whatever is in front of us. We just say wall, and it's just one more wall. Whereas if we pay attention to the wall, we can stop and see the texture maybe, or the color. And we can also include ourselves. So you can think of a part of your body. It can be your sit bones in contact with a surface that's beneath you, or it can be your feet on the floor or your back against the chair. So whatever feels good to you. We're gonna keep attention inside and outside in time. So the idea that when we keep a little bit of the attention in our body, the idea is not to be absorbed in whatever we are looking at. So we tend to sometimes look at something and be so interested, especially when it's technology like the computer or the phone. We are so interested in what we are looking at, we get absorbed and we forget about ourselves. And the opposite can also happen. We put our attention in ourselves and we forget that we are seeing, that we are looking outside. So what we want to do is not lose attention. We don't want to forget about ourselves, and we don't want to forget about looking. We want to create this balance so we can be consciously mindful, so we bring our attention again to the space around us. And now you can also pay attention to the peripheral vision, which is whatever you're looking at now, there's like a point of focus, more focus that you're looking at, and there's all around it. There's a lot of space that's out of focus. So the idea is that you can look at the object, but also remember the part of your body that you chose, the space around you, and also the peripheral vision. See how much you can identify what's out of focus around the object that you're looking at, how much you can identify what you're seeing. And as we're looking, you'll see that looking in this way is not compatible with a stress response, right? With fight or flight or freeze. So when we are exploring in this way, when you will remember the peripheral vision, when we remember to see in this way, we end up creating conditions for the nervous system to decompress and de stress in a very gentle and indirect way. And you might notice it might be or not, but you might be calmer than when we began. So in order to be attentive to the rest of the talk, we ask you to look up. Because we don't look up much. And when we look up, our system is more alert. And whenever it's good for you, you can look at the computer. And this is something that you can remember when you feel tired, you feel like your eyelids are closing, you can invite yourself to look up. And this brings you some kind of alertness that can bring you back to the moment and to be attentive and awake. So now maybe you can write on the chat, like three words about how you're feeling. Just share, just to see where we are. Common, fuzzy, interested, curious, focus, loose, calm, alert, alive, curious. Nice calm, focused, curious. Okay. Okay. So now Lucia is going to continue.

So as I was thinking as Tali was guiding and inviting us to a very small scenario, like a very daily, like, thing we can do. Oh, we're here, we have space, there's light or darkness. And I was thinking that really this basic thing that we do when we meditate, sometimes we call it meditation or ways to create an expanded presence, is we pay attention to the decisions we're making, and we make very small, low stimuli decisions, like, oh, I'm going to look there, I'm going to check how the air is coming in through my nostrils. I'm going to look to the other side. So we are pacing ourselves, but we are building up a process of thought to allow us to engage into very specific decisions which allow our nervous system to build this capacity, which is a very innate capacity of regulate, to regulate itself and co regulate. So, so we said that with Tali. Talking with Tali said, oh, meditation is making decisions and paying attention at the end of the day. So I think we can all do it. And I also love very much, very simple excuses to allow us to, to have the capacity to get into the, into the dance floor, you know, into the, oh, this I can do. Maybe I cannot do. Half hour, I cannot sit for two hours. I cannot sit, but this I can do. So the eyes are such an amazing organ, sensory organ. And as Stanley said at the beginning, we're, we are building in this session just a brushstroke of the relationship of the use we have with the eyes, how it is so deeply connected to our brain that it has a strong force in it and how we pay attention to that. So Simon Beale, who's a philosopher, a lady philosopher from the 20th century, said that attention is the highest and rarest form of generosity. We love that phrase. And including generosity for a practice for us, it's a very deep experience. It's allowing for an unraveling of the self, for a space for the self, you know, so it's really all of this journey we're inviting you today are very small excuses to build into, to build conditions. We don't know what's going to happen. We never know what's going to happen. But we do know that paying attention and making decisions around some direction, some constructive direction allows for a deeper system of our nervous system to engage and to transform the baseline in which we are walking, living. So how are we paying attention to what we're paying attention? As you said in your, in your words, like, suddenly we become more calm. Suddenly we become. Those are the effects that occur. And sometimes we are running after the effects we want to have. Oh, I want to feel more relaxed. I want to feel calmer. So our consciousness and our attention are in relationship to how our nervous systems are working. And this evolutionary story of humans in relation with light. The eyes tell our relay constant relationship. This ancient story of eyes and light and darkness. You know, we've been talking, we've been having this dialogue for a very, very, very long time. But also in our own lives, we've grown into that dialogue in very particular ways. Look at me, I have glasses. So my dialogue with the light Is very specific, it's very individual. And that's what we are trying to build up also today with Taliyah, this concept of use, which is sometimes not so clear for us.

So.

I would like to share this very, like, very simple idea of how we balance in space. Our heads on top of our spines and our two eyes are situated in a very specific area of our cranium. They are not here, not here. They are here. You know, we have this kind of vision, not all around vision. So it's just not knowing a lot of anatomy, not knowing very much of anything. Just by looking at another human being and allowing for the information that's there in front of your eyes, we can see how there is something very interesting around this functioning of our structure and.

Of.

How our structure is in space. So our head is balancing on top of our spine, you see? All the time. All the time. And wherever. If you now make a decision of looking to the right and you just take your eyes on that trip, but don't take your head, there's just a range, just as much as you can go, you know. So then all of you have to cooperate to see to where you want to look. So if you just make that decision of just let the eyes go for a walk and then say, yeah, but I meant to look at the door that's in my left. And I. I cannot. No, yes, I can. If I keep rotating and allowing for all this support to come. So there's a deep, deep relationship of how we balance in space and how we use our eyes and how our eyes developed in relationship with our brains and with our deeper systems of balancing around the world. And why is it important how we balance around the world in space? Because it's the most basic function. And if it's not working well for me, everything is going to get complicated. If I cannot rotate, if I cannot, if anything happens to my balancing systems, all my senses are going to have a harder time. So as we began eyes, you use attention.

So.

I don't know, Tally, if you want to say something.

No, I think it's. It's very clear.

Okay. Or if anyone wants to ask anything, because if not, I wanted to take you into a very small invitation palming, which is a very us who have glasses, we will take them off. I don't take them off at the moment because if not, I see an impressionist surrounding around me, which is good, but not so good for the moment. So if you have. I have a table in front of me. So what I would like to Invite you is to let your elbows rest like that on the table. And your eyes and your hands will go like this to clasp in a very gentle and curved way. Your eyes, you do not put pressure over them. Okay. You just squeeze your hands and you will diminish light. Information of light. You're not pressing. You are not doing anything to your eyes directly. Okay? So I. We will not start yet. Now we know what we're going to do.

We have a question there, Lucia, just before we start, because Charine is asking, what is our approach to working with thoughts that pop up during this work, and what is our approach to the thoughts that pop up while we're doing this? So it might happen during the bombing as well. So it might be good to address this question right now.

Well.

Yeah, go ahead.

Popping up thoughts are for me, as in a synonym. Oh, you're alive. Oh, things are happening. So again, this beautiful relation we can build of the distance we can take between that thought. I sometimes say that thought can be a canoe where I jump in and I ride on that canoe downstream, you know, Or I can say, oh, canoe. Oh, you know, and it's going by. But I think, for me, it's very difficult to say that this connection of a deep, intimate, interoceptive motion, to say it in a way something doesn't allow for our thoughts to go on. Thoughts go on. The only thing is you just. It's like a field of butterflies. You let them fly. And that takes practice, of course, not going after every butterfly that's jumping around. But at least I think it's very important to see that that's happening. Acknowledging and see if again, you can invite yourself to come back to my voice at this point. Come back to where you are, to connect with where you have support and to connect with something that's here and now. Just that process of coming back for me is so valuable. I'm not thinking that I'm here now, here now here now that's a little too much sometimes. So here and now.

Also not being like. You can think of this as a game. And really there's no pressure to do anything.

Right.

We're just exploring. And it's fine. If you get bored and you want to, like, let your thoughts go somewhere else, it's no problem. Like, as long as you don't fight them. Usually we get better. We get. Yeah. Better relationship with them. So just let yourself be.

So we're going to. Now, people who have glasses, time to take them off just for a moment before you put your hands Clasped on your eyes, on your face, not your eyes. Just allow for a little checkup of how you feel. How's your head, how's your neck, how all of your back, how are you feeling, your sit bones on the surface you're on. How are your feet, how's your breathing, allowing for comfort, discomfort for speed, slow motions of thoughts to come in. This is a very big house. There's room for everyone. So now allow your eyelids to close and take this. Eyelids are also like a hand. They are touching our eyes and allow for that moistness, for that embrace of our eyelids to give support to our eyes.

The front.

See how the light is still permeating through the eyelids. Check your breathing. But in terms of you look at it like someone who's looking at a tree that's moving, being moved by the wind. It's like you don't go and get the branches and move them along. You just, hello there, ears coming out, air is coming in and I'm being supported. This dynamic in such a deep way. And now very gently, allow yourself to take your hands to create a space, a deeper space of darkness for your eyes, a deeper environment of darkness. And darkness is another language, as light is for our eyes. In darkness we rest. Allow your eyes to soften towards the front, towards the back, the upper part, lower part. Allow your eyes to be held by the contours, by the bony contours of your face, the three dimensions of that very, very spheric round organ which is the eye. Check again how your thoughts are. See if you're gone, to do something you needed to do. Allow yourself gently invite yourself to come back to my voice, to the connection of your elbows with the surface. They are touching. Check your back, Soften your neck. Allow your thoughts to come back. And if you drift away, just follow yourself to where you're going and invite yourself back. If you're uncomfortable with how your hands are being held there, you can maybe go the other way around and go back and have support at your back with your hands still there. Yeah. So now, very, very gently and in a very dynamic way, we're going to open a little bit, our palms without opening our eyelids. Eyelids are closed. We open up slightly. We allow some light and then we close again. Again we open slightly. The clasp of our hands do not open your eyelids. And we allow our hands to rest. Eyelids are still closed. Allow your hands to move away from your eyes. Eyelids closed, you can go back to where you have a support at the back of your chair and see how it is now, this new conversation of the light through your eyelids, towards your eyes, check. How's your back, your neck, your head, and how all the senses are operating now together and in a very gentle way. Allow your eyelids to open for a moment and to close again. Allow your eyelids to open and to close. And it's as if you were testing the amount of information of light that's out there in the. In space and you're becoming informed by that light. It's like, oh, light, lots of light. So again now allow your eyelids to.

Open.

And just allow yourself to be with your eyelids open. See that? I'm not saying eyes closed, I'm saying eyelids closed or eyelids open, because our eyes are always open in that manner of speaking, always receiving light and darkness. So how are you feeling? You can come back or not. Make your own decisions.

Feel free to open the mic if you have to, if you would like to say anything. Very still and grounded. Wow. Like having had a sleep. Yeah, it's very resting. I personally felt that more thoughts were coming in when we were on this position for some reason.

I don't know if there's anything behind.

That or if anyone else felt the same, but it was just harder than in any other position to not have that many thoughts.

Lisa, it's very interesting what you say because in a way, when you go into this situation, remember what we said at the beginning, Suddenly we lower down, we lower stimulus, we lower stimulus. And suddenly there is such a deep connection with what's really going on, not at the surface, but in a very deep level. So it's like you open up your. Oh, I'm thinking very fast. Oh, so allow yourself to meet this idea that I'm giving you now. So not only this idea you brought, but to live with this idea that sometimes it's only we open up something that's already there and suddenly we are in capacity to see it so clearly. Oh, wow. Fast. And it's not only not a problem.

It'S.

For me, it's a blessing. It's like, oh, now I know something about me, which maybe I didn't know know a few minutes ago, or not in this quality. What do you say about that? Yeah, I think all of that makes.

Sense because once you're in this position, it's like you're turning off the lights, quote, unquote, all the stimuli. And then, oh, maybe I did have those thoughts before, but not in this way, or I didn't really realize.

So I think it's a good. It's a good practice And I didn't really reject them, I just let them in.

But it just made me more aware of what really is going on there. It's really interesting.

Which doesn't mean that it's not uncomfortable. No, I'm not saying. But this is for me very important because it's an experience and sometimes we tend to separate experiences. Oh, there it's going well because I'm becoming more relaxed and ah, that's going well. And it's not going right because not, not what you said, Melissa, but to pull a little bit on that string. And it's for me so important in this practice of the Alexander technique to receive what's there, you know, to say, oh, that's coming up for me. Okay, I can work with that. Now that I know I can work with that.

Yeah. So you meet yourself where you are.

Basically in time and space.

I have a question. Right, so. And I think you spotted it, Lucia. But it was slightly more uncomfortable for me to be in this posture. So whilst the removal of the light was very restful. And I really like the idea that when you sleep that's what you do is you've turned off the lights. Right. So it's dark. I found it more uncomfortable posture wise. So physically. And it was easier when you said, you know, maybe sit up straight, then you don't have to have your elbows on the table. Do you have any comments on that?

Yes, I saw your Ritz. That's why I saw you sort of struggling there. So once again, as we started a recession today, it's this power to make constructive decisions for us because our habits are coming up all the time and our individual habits are that they are individual because maybe you see, Melissa, X happened, rate M happened. And that's a moment where we would give more support to this habitual way of holding ourselves up in space, being present that suddenly comes up and it's like, oh, I cannot have my hands here, but here it's better. But if I had you there for some more time probably again, because it is also, it is also an activity. It takes from our balance, but it lets us see. So I wouldn't have you there a lot of time. And even many times when I practice palming with people, I ask them to go to the floor to lay down so as to help and put some, you know, scarf or something. So this doesn't get in the way of the deep aspect of the procedure, but it's always interesting information that is coming up. So I know I didn't answer your question, but I answered to principle.

No, I think, I think that's very helpful because basically pay attention, I think is the message. Right?

Yeah. And this is very important also, like be very open to, to not judge, to say, oh and then of course in the Alexander technique we have practice for. Oh, how can we help to support that? Not die. Ah, you know, bye, bye. That's happening to you. Thank you.

And I think it's a good idea also for the. If you're practicing the non sleep deep breast, it's nice to have like something over your eyes so you get complete darkness. And that's, that's much more restful even than the practice itself. Like if you can have complete darkness, that really helps your nervous system to calm down even further. Yes. Jason, thanks. Oh, I'm really enjoying these exercises. And I also wanted to know if this would be a time I could ask a question. Not about these exercises. Yeah, yeah. We have one more thing that we wanted to do and then we can exchange. Okay, great. Yeah, thank you. All right. Okay, so the last thing we want to do is, oh, I see something. That's funny. Like Scott is smelling something apparently. Yeah, we didn't think about saying wash your hands before this. That's interesting. Okay, so I want you to do this. I just want to do some investigation a little further on the use of our eyes. So I want you to put your palm in front of you right now and look at it and you can look at the lines of your palm. We always say, I know myself like the palm of my hand. We never really look at it. But now you can take some time and look at it. And now don't do it yet, but I'm going to ask you in a second to put down your hand and I want you to keep the focus. Like right now you're focusing on your hand because you're trying to look at the lines. And I want you to, when we put down the hand, I want you to keep the focus where the hand was. So you just put it down and try to keep the focus there and see what happens. And we can do it again. You can try again if you want. And I don't know if this happened, but I'm going to try, try and guess that you probably couldn't really keep the focus there. Like if there's, if there's nothing there, you can't really keep the focus there. The eye is looking for a place to kind of fixate so that it can balance. Like the vision is really intricately, very intimately connected to our Balance and our postural system really depends on vision. So we really need to put our eyes somewhere in order to be like, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sitting up. And my eyes really are also kind of grabbing the world. Kind of like we are kind of using it as a support. So it's just something that happens. But it's interesting to learn that what we are doing with our eyes basically. And sometimes we kind of over focus with our eyes. We look at something and we are fixating on something that we're looking at and that doesn't leave us in capacity to be available for whatever is next. So the idea would be the ideal thing would be to have certain focus, but also the flexibility to be able to respond to the world and be able to move as soon as something requires it. Whereas over fixing on something and sometimes we do that and we are like this and it's really hard to move ourselves, remove ourselves from that situation. And then the other extreme is when we under focus. And that sometimes involves going inside and being like, like lost in thought and really not there. Also something in the middle would be to be present, to be like, okay, I'm ready to respond to the world and I'm also conscious of what's going on inside me and I can move freely basically. So these ideas are just. When we do some work on the eyes, we can start recognizing where are we, what are we doing right now, how are we looking right now? When we identify that, we can invite ourselves to do something different. For example, we can think of the peripheral vision. This helps to give us more space. Or we can be aware of the space around us, but we have to identify that we either over focused or under focused. So it's interesting to be able to just have the language. Like Johnny says, like if you don't have the language, you don't really realize what you're doing. So basically just introducing a few concepts so that you can play with them and like see if you can catch yourself over focusing or under focusing during the day and then invite yourself to do something different. To either just remember the space around you or the peripheral vision. We asked you to pick an object ocean, you got here a little later. But at first we said just pick an object around you that you're interested in looking at for a little bit if possible, not your phone, so something different. And we're going to place it somewhere where it's comfortable. You can see if it's more comfortable to look at the object close or far. The idea is that you're comfortable looking at it. And so the idea of looking at an object and not losing focus is quite challenging. But we're going to look at it for maybe two or three minutes. And I'm going to guide you. And the idea is that, okay, so you go and look at the object and. And try to not name the object like you probably already did, but see if we can look at the object, like not thinking so much about what it is or what is it used for, but more like at first just paying attention in a certain way. So there are five different qualities that we can look at objects with. And the first one we're going to look at is shape. So you can look at the shape of the object and you can think of the shape and also think of the shape that's around the object, like the empty space around the object that's also a shape. So you have the shape of the object and the space of the shape of the negative space. And now you can close your eyelids just for like a reset. You can open them again. And now we're going to look at texture. What's the texture of the object? Do you feel like touching it when you think of the texture, does it evoke any kind of sensation? Thinking about texture? And you can close your eyelids again and open them. And now we're going to look at light and darkness. Is it projecting any shadow on the surface that it's supporting it? Is there any place where it receives more light on the other parts of it? How would it look like if it was lit by a candle, for example? Would be very different. And now you can close your eyelids again and open them, and we're going to think about movement. Is the object, movement moving? Is it really still or is it like an apparent stillness? How is the movement inside you going on? And how does it relate with the movement of the object? Your blood is circulating, you're breathing. There are lots of movements inside yourself. What's going on with the movement of this object? And finally we're going to close the eyelids once again. We're going to open them. We can think of depth. How deep is this object? Can you imagine the part that's behind you? Do you see all of it? Or is there something hidden so the. You can keep looking at it for a little bit more and just notice how it's very difficult to remove yourself from the preconceived ideas that we have from the object. Kind of like the couple thinking mind from just seeing whatever is there without knowing what it is, without Knowing what it's for. But the idea is that we decide to look at it like we are making a decision that we're looking at it even though we can get bored or we can get like what already saw it, I know what it is, I can look at something else. But again, it's a decision. So right now I want you to grab your pen and paper and just write down your impressions. This is for yourself. And see, like we're gonna give you two minutes or a minute and a half. You can write your feelings, your thoughts, whatever came up can be written down it. Okay, and the last thing we wanted to do is we want you to photograph the objects. We want you to pick like one of the five characteristics of vision, which are depth, color, which I didn't say. But you can look at color if you want movement, light and darkness and shape. So you choose one of them or two of them that you like. And we're going to take a picture of the object. But now when we take a picture, the whole context is also coming in. Like when we decide to look at the object, we are kind of focusing attention and we are deciding, okay, I'm looking at the object and I'm not looking at anything else. And when we bring the camera inside, where we're going to look at whatever is around and we're going to pick what is going to be in the picture and what is going to be out of the picture, you can imagine you are going around the whole border of the picture on your cell phone. You can look carefully at the border and decide what is going to be in the picture and what is not. So the object is going to be there. But then be mindful of how much of the context you want. And if you want to be, if you want to be close to the object or farther away from the object with a phone, you can, you can actually take the picture with your phone. That's our. If you have something close, a camera or whatever. Let's see how it is to now make the decision of, okay, I'm not looking at the objects anymore. Now I'm looking at the surroundings. And it's different if I decide to use the wide angle lens from the phone or the tele lens. And everything will change form and it will change shape and it will change the size especially so it's interesting with photography we can also have a way of relating with what we are looking at that brings another quality. Yeah, you can use that. Perfect. Okay, we would love to hear, how was this for you? Anybody Wants to share. I, I just love the idea of seeing the ordinary trash again. Just, it feels so exciting and to think about seeing people fresh and seeing landscapes fresh and just not like even at the beginning you said just it's wall, wall. But really seeing just is, is invites so much wonder and aliveness. So. Thank you. I love that. Oh, thank you.

I picked a photo of my now 22 year old daughter who she's on my desk from when she was about 7 years old. So of course there's quite a lot of emotion wrapped up with that. But what I found very interesting is especially the bit you said, imagine what it looks like, you know, at the back or you know, on the other side. And that's something I'm quite curious to pick it up to see what's on the back of the photo.

Right.

So there's no texture, it's flat, it's standing up on my desk. But I actually want to go and investigate it further and I found that very interesting.

Yeah. How we can bring different concepts that we're not. Are usually not around in our minds and it just changes our whole relationship to whatever is inside in front of us.

You have your hand.

Yeah. I found it interesting when I would open my eyes after each prompt and start to focus on the object. That focusing really brought a lot of tension like around my eyes. And I love to hear your thoughts on that idea of like. And I would try to like consciously relax my eyes and kind of think about seeing happens in the brain, not the eyes. And that would help. But it's very difficult to like identify the qualities without tensing my eyes. And I was wondering if you could talk about that at all. Yeah. Lucia, you want to say something about.

Thank you Matt for sharing that. And once again we can see how invitations are not enough in themselves, but they are enough to see or use. So we become aware of oh wow. After I've had some deep experiment like this very subtle but very deep conversation with your nervous system in a time coordination which give you time, sorry to repeat the word, to have fresh information from your habitual sensory appreciation. So we in the Alexander technique, we consider that as the soul of our work, not to sort of take for granted, oh, we do this and this is going to happen. No, we do this and we see what's going to happen. We don't know. So this was strain that you talk about, Matt, is so interesting and it talks about your use, talks about many things and this is the moment where if we had one more hour, I would speak to Jason, to rit to you, Matt, and give support for that which is being felt and seen. So thank you for sharing and I hope this is. Well, at least enough for the moment to. To acknowledge that in where it belongs in the area of human experience. And it's deep information coming to you.

Great, thank you.

Thank you.

And also, Matt, thinking about the peripheral vision usually helps soften the eyes as well. So, I mean, once you notice this is getting tensed up, you can invite yourself indirectly to let go of the tension by becoming aware of the peripheral vision and the space around you. Great, thank you. And you're welcome.

Thank you. Someone asked Tani about the pile of books at the back.

Yeah, yeah, I already answered their shelves. So, Jason, you wanted to ask something else or. I don't know. Well, I. I don't know. If we're out of time, I might have to ask you later, but it was. It was about under focusing. So maybe I'll. I'll ask you offline. Yeah, okay, sure, no problem. Well, thank you very much, all of you.

Thank you, all of you. Bye. Bye. Did you stop recording?