Aarti Sequeira (Food Network Host)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their craft. We, we talk about their path to mastery. We talk about their daily habits and how the gospel of Jesus Christ influences their work. Man, I was excited about this interview beforehand, but Artie Sakura blew my mind. Just totally exceeded expectations. If you don't know Artie, she's the host of Arty Party on the Food Network. She's the winner of season six six. A Food Network star and just a world class chef and on air personality. We talked about so many good things, including the significance that God himself, scripture tells us, is in the kitchen metaphorically preparing the literal feast of the lamb. We talked about Artie's real, raw, vulnerable conversations with God after she lost her dream job at cnn. And I love this little mention towards the end of the episode about what the art of improv can teach us about focusing out as we seek to master our careers. Guys, you're going to love this episode with my new friend, Artie Socorro. Artie, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

It was actually a former guest on the podcast, our mutual friend, Candace Cameron Bure. Oh, she's like, you have to have Artie. As soon as we ended the podcast, you got to have Artie on. So you got her to think.

Thank you, Candace.

She's amazing. So I'm excited to learn more about your story. You know, first off, you've lived in a lot of different cultural contexts, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was born in India. I'm 1000% Indian. Like, I don't. I'm not even gonna bother with the 23andMe. I just, I'm pretty positive that that's where I am.

Thousand and one percent.

Thousand and one percent. But I was born in India, but I grew up in Dubai in the Middle East. And in Dubai, I attended a British run school. So I really felt like a third culture kid.

Yeah.

At that point already. And then moved to the States for university. And you know, the longer I'm here. The more I understand the diversity of this country and its people. And so I just feel like I'm all over the map at this point. You know, I went from Chicago to New York to LA to now North Carolina. So I'm all mixed up. But at the end of the day, for some reason, all of that, even if in my head and in my heart, feels like a jumble when I cook, it seems to all make sense.

What do you mean by that?

You know, for a little while, this whole concept of fusion in cooking was a real buzzword, and everybody was doing it, and still is to a certain degree. But I think that it works best when it's a really authentic reflection of all the different influences in your life, you know? And so for me, fusing Indian flavors with a Baja style fish taco makes a lot of sense to me because as at that time I was living in LA and I loved those style of tacos, you know, But I wanted to add my own flavors that I had grown up with to that taco. So to me, there was a whole story behind it, and there was a reasoning behind the spices that I used and things like that. And I think that for a lot of people who have a jumble of cultures, you know, sort of roiling inside of themselves, it can sometimes be. It can be confusing, you know, and sometimes you feel like you have to pick one over the other or you feel an alliance to one over the other. And it depends on the day, it depends on the hour, you know, But I think when. When you cook, something about that takes your head out of the equation altogether. And you just start cooking from your intuition and from your heart and your instinct. And that's when I think, I don't know, I feel the most comfortable in who I am.

No, that makes total sense. Right. It's this kind of. Kind of cooking cross culturally as an analogy for just cross cultural living. I also think there's probably like a spiritual component to this, right?

Yeah.

Isn't cooking in this fusion vein a picture of the kingdom? Right. Like all of these flavors, all of these cultures mixing together. Have you. I mean, I'm assuming you've thought about this and dwelt on this.

Yeah, I have. And I think that. I think one of the most radical aspects to me about when I first, you know, I grew up Catholic, the part of India that I'm from is the southwest coast of India was colonized by the Portuguese. So even my last name, Sequeira, I think, is supposed to be pronounced Cicada. So it's Portuguese. And you know, it wasn't really real to me. It was only in my twenties when I started going to like a non denominational church and really understanding who this Jesus person was, slash is and what he did, slash does that I started to understand, oh, this is what, this is what following Jesus is all about, you know, and one of the most radical things for me was when the pastor said, you know, your chief identity is child of God. And for me growing up, you know, my passport was my chief identity and you know, the color of my skin and where I come from. And I'm not saying those things are not important, but for me to hear that none of those things were as important as being a child of God, I mean, that just knocked me over on the ground. And I think that's one of those things that has really helped me make sense. I think of all these different identities that are, you know, in my, my heart, because I don't really have to make sense of them because I know what my real identity is.

That's good. That'll preach. That's good. So I'm assuming you grew up loving cooking, right? Like, I'm assuming this is part of the story.

Kind of. I always loved food. I was 10 pounds when I was born. God bless my.

Yeah, I read that.

That's. Yep. Natural delivery and everything. Bless her. I know, but so. And food has, is huge in our family. My mom's a tremendous cook. Her mom was a tremendous cook. My grandmother on my dad's side was a tremendous cook. And so good food and enjoying food and relishing it and fantasizing about it and seeking out great ingredients. That's always been such a huge part of how we spent our time. But actually cooking the food, I always left to my mom because she was just so dang good at it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I have a perfectionist streak in me and I'm pretty sure I know where I got it because, you know, I would come in and I would help. And she was like, okay, well here, let me, let me take over. Go do your homework or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it wasn't until I was a little bit older, Maybe I was 10, that I was a pretty chubby child. And my mum wasn't sure what to do about that. Right. She'd grown up in wars and ration times and stuff, so she, she didn't know what to do with a child that was a little overweight. And so she said no cookies, no goodies in the house. And so I took to baking. I love it.

It's an act of defiance.

Yes, yes.

It's so good.

And also, you know, baking is such a great way to get into cooking because you have to follow the instructions. It is scientific. So that's how I started. But it wasn't until I was in college and then working in my first job that I was like, okay, let me try to cook some of these things. And I started to realize how little I knew. And yet, watching cooking shows and looking through cookbooks had been something I had done since I was a girl. And it was only then that that kind of all synthesized into me being sort of brave enough to try to cook things. But at that point, it was a lot of sort of Western style American food, because that's what was available on tv, you know, in terms of step by step instruction. And so I would start doing that and then sort of using spices that I had grown up with to add those flavors. And that's kind of how I came about to cooking the way that I do.

It's so interesting. You breeze past that. I want to go back your early career, your first professional love. I mean, yes, you had a pretty serious job in journalism. You were at cnn. And I read somewhere in it was the first Gulf War that got you really interested in this. What was it about that timing in this field that kind of lit this spark within you for journalism?

Well, you know, I don't. There was always something in me that was like, I really want to do something important. I really want to make an impact on the world. And I don't know where that came from, and I don't know if that's in everybody, you know, but it really drove me. And I think I was 11 when the Gulf, the first Gulf War happened. And it was close enough to feel real, but far enough to not feel too scared about it. You know, that's the first time that I saw cnn, and I got to watch it every day. My dad loves to watch the news, and so we would all watch it together. And it was the first time I saw real reporting people out there, you know, telling us what was going on. And I just was intoxicated by this idea of, oh, my gosh, these people didn't take anybody's word for the truth. They went out to find it, and they are risking life and limb to do it. And so, you know, there was definitely. I got caught up in the romantic swell of it, but that idea of giving a voice to the voiceless and shining a light on the truth in the darkness. Those sorts of things really captured my soul. And it was a sort of profession that was outside of those mainstream Indian traditional Indian jobs like doctor, acquaintance, lawyer and God bless my parents, they were open minded enough to say, okay, good, yeah, let's do it.

So skipping ahead, I'm sure a huge fascinating part of the story. You end up at cnn.

I end up at cnn, which was always my dream.

Yeah.

And I thought, well, that wasn't so hard. I mean I really was like, wow, okay, all right, this is great. I was behind the camera, not in front of the camera, which is what I' dreamed of. But I was like, that's okay, I'm going to work harder.

What were you doing? Were you, were you producing?

I was producing, yeah. I was producing financial news.

Interesting.

Which I didn't know the first thing about. So I had to learn really quickly.

That's everybody in every job everywhere, right?

Except that, you know what, when I was in college I thought that when you started a new job they would hand you a manual and tell you so you would know what to do. And I quickly learned that is not the case. That we are just all making it up as we go along. It's crazy.

Real quick, sidetrack. Have you read the this book that came out a couple years ago, this history of CNN called Up All Night?

No, that sounds great.

It's terrific. It's really great.

I wonder who wrote it.

I forget her name. She was at CNN for a while. I think her name was Lisa Nepali, something like that.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The book didn't sell very well, but I loved it. I thought it was a really great history of cnn. It just has. CNN is changing world. All right, so you get your dream job but you gave it up, right, to move to la. Am I getting this part of the story?

Right? Yeah, I was doing really well. I had moved from Chicago to New York, the headquarters, well, one of the headquarters. And I was doing really well. I was on track and I knew where my career was going to go and my husband was always like, can you please rephrase this? But. And then I got married.

And then there was marriage and then there was that.

No, well, you know, he lived in LA and I lived in New York and he's an actor and I thought, well, I can do news anywhere. So I moved from New York to la and when I got to LA I found that, you know, finding another job was much harder than I thought it would have been. And I frankly, I think part of that was because, I mean, obviously now I can look back at it and say, well, because it wasn't what I was meant to do. But I also felt like I had lost a little bit of the fire for it. I think I'd lost a little bit of hope that I would ever end up in front of the camera and that I felt a little bit like a square peg in a round hole. And so I thought, well, you know, I had been taught if you lose the fire for this, because this is a vocation, journalism is a vocation and it's a calling. If you lose that fire, then you need to consider something else. So I tried looking for, you know, PR jobs. I ended up working on a documentary which was fantastic and I loved every moment of it. But yeah, it was, that was a really hard time because again, speaking of identity, I identified as a journalist. Yeah, it was who I was. And so for that to be taken away from me, I thought, oh, who am I? What's my worth? What's my value? Why? You know, there were many mornings where I was like, lord, why did you wake me up again? I have no idea. And, you know, I sort of was starting a relationship with God at that point. It was a very hard time.

Yeah. So talk about that. Was that part of the impetus that led you to a relationship with the Lord?

Yeah, I think so. I think that he. I think I had given my life to Christ somewhere in the middle of that. And I'm sure somewhere in my head I thought, well, that means it's all puppy dogs and rainbows now, you know, and that wasn't happening. And so I definitely, I remember, you know, climbing to the top of our little two story building and sitting under the sycamore tree and just like crying and praying and shaking my fist at God and being like, I, I don't understand. Because the thing is that it wasn't just the loss of a career and it wasn't just the loss of an identity. It was the loss of worth altogether. It was feeling like a failure that my parents had saved up all this money, had sent me across the universe to America, to a really great university. And here I was letting them down. But I didn't know what to do about it. So I sort of, I think that it made me cling to God, but it also made me, it pushed me to be really honest with him. Yeah, you know, there was no false, pretty sort of ritualistic language with him. I mean, it was very like, what the heck are you doing? And why are you doing this to me. Don't you love me? Don't you care about me? Why have you abandoned me? You know, it was a lot of that. And so I ran to him. I was honest with him. And I think that that has marked the way that I talk to him ever since.

It reminds me of the Psalms.

Yeah, I took a lot of comfort, right?

Just like David, like just being angry and mad and real and vulnerable.

Yeah.

With God. And I love that God allows that into scripture. It's almost like he's inviting us, you know, to have a relationship.

Well, it's funny because I was talking to my girls last night. They're 8 and 6, and you know, I was talking to them about an argument they had had. And then, you know, you know, I was talking about trying to calm down and that when I'm mad, I try to calm down. But I do pray, you know, and God always helps me. And my oldest was like, well, he doesn't always answer our prayers. And we got into a, you know, discussion about that. My husband has ulcerative colitis. And so, you know, it's very real to them that we've prayed and prayed and prayed and it hasn't been answered yet. Now I say, yet, they say, answered full stop, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And then my youngest said, well, but we can't get mad at God. And I was like, oh my gosh, wait, I've done a bad job if I haven't let you know that you can. And then one of them was like, but then he'll send us a severe punishment. And I was like, no, honey. And then I did. I started talking about David and how, you know, how honest he was with God. And they were like, David, like the king. And I was like, yeah. So in a way, you know, I wish that my husband was healed, but it is a constant sort of object lesson to them that you bring it all, you bring it all to God. The ugly stuff, the pretty stuff, and it's all okay.

And at the end of the day, trust that whatever he does is somehow good. Even if we wouldn't define it as good.

Right?

Yeah, that's a tough pill swallow. I don't know that I could teach that to my 7 year old and my 5 year old.

But yeah, I mean, I don't think it's a lesson you can teach them if you're not in the middle of something. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It feels too abstract, especially to little kids, but I mean, I think that they watch their dad do the best that he can, you know what I mean? He's still as full of life and joy as he can be. And he's. And they see him, you know, be disappointed about it and be sad about it, but still, you know, study the Word every day and praise God and worship God and all of those things. And I don't know why he is preparing them in that way. But at some point in their lives, maybe as adults, they're going to remember that, no doubt.

And that's going to preach a powerful sermon to them. So going back to your own pain, right, you have this, you know, traumatic vocational loss. You're, you're yelling at God underneath the sycamore tree. I can envision this. Yeah, your story does turn out pretty well by the world's standards, right? Somehow you become this massive Food Network star. How did this happen, right? You're a journalist, you lose that career. Like, I think our listeners are sitting there like, okay, draw the line. How did she get the tickle war tree to arty party? I don't understand.

Okay, so I moved to la. I was watching a lot of morning tv. I'd get to the end of the View and I was like, okay, I gotta turn the TV off or else, you know, I will watch all the soap operas and I'll be here until three. And so I'd always loved, you know, watching cooking shows and going through recipe books. And also I was a new wife and my husband was working a production job and we had one car, so he would take the car in the morning and I would go through recipe books and figure out, okay, here's what I'm going to make today. And I would walk to the store, which is unheard of in la, walk to the store, get everything I need, walk back, make dinner. And that would happen a couple, you know, a few times a week. And it just brought me so much comfort and so much solace because I was taking this chaos of ingredients and then through technique and through time and focus, turning them into something nourishing and something useful. And my husband was like, okay, something is happening here. And to his credit, he got me a gift certificate to a cooking school that was in the neighborhood where they had the semi professional program. And I did that and then started interning at a restaurant. And once I did that, I realized, like, I don't think I'm supposed to be a restaurant chef. I don't. I, I need to make the food and, and one step short of spooning it into someone's mouth, you know what I mean, I need to see them. I need to see them eat it and hopefully enjoy it. I need that. And that doesn't happen when you're in the back of the kitchen, you know? So then I was like, oh, gosh, now what do I do? Meanwhile, I was working on this documentary about the genocide in Darfur, and I was like, okay, this is. Maybe I should be doing documentaries. That came to a close. And then someone said, why don't you make a YouTube cooking show? And I said, okay. And my husband helped me, and we turned it into a cooking variety show because all of our friends are performers. And so it gave them a venue to. To do what they do. And after doing that for nine months, and, you know, a couple of people said, there's a show on Food Network called Food Network Star. Why don't you try out for that? And I. This is the thing. I mean, you're saying, like, it all worked out, but it didn't work out the way that I thought it was going to. I was petrified of doing this show because I thought, here I am, I feel like an imposter, and now the whole world is going to see right through me and I'm going to be humiliated. Why would I even do this? But I felt like every hair on the back of my head, you know, back of my neck go up whenever anybody talked about it. And I really felt like God was saying, you have to do this. And I felt like I couldn't say no. So I sent in my video, and then, unfortunately, from my perspective, they said, yeah.

Send the video. Praying, lord, please make it go to spam. Please.

Yeah. And they. I still remember I was, like, reading, reading a book. And the phone rang, and it was a 917 number, a new York number. And I was like, nope, I'm not picking it up. And I let it go to voicemail.

That's amazing.

Yeah. I listened to the voicemail and I started crying. I was like, lord, what are you doing? Why are you doing this to me? You know? But I went on there. I really didn't.

This is genuine. You didn't want to go.

Genuinely. I mean, if I could have clawed my nails into my husband's arm as I walked into the. You know, they sent a town car to come get me and take me to the hotel. I mean, there would be scars on his arm if it was possible. I desperately did not want to go. I was so, so, so scared because I thought, I am so ill equipped for this job, for this thing that I'm Trying to point you.

I mean, you see that in retrospect, right?

It's like, yeah, I do. I mean, I do. And I think that I was just. I was hanging onto, you know, the woman that hangs onto the hem of Jesus's garment. I mean, that's how I felt. I was just hanging on for dear life and praying hard every morning, like, I can't do it. I. And the thing is, I wasn't praying, like, please help me win. That was the furthest thing from my mind. It was just like, please let me leave today with my dignity. When they send me home today, Lord, let me have my dignity, please.

I don't want to catch something on fire on national tv.

I talked to the producer after, you know, like, a couple of years ago, I met up with the executive producer, and she said, you know that you were a front runner from the very beginning, right? And I was like, I had absolutely 1000% no sense of that. And she said, why'd she say that? I think because she wanted to. I don't know. I think that she said it because she knew I didn't feel that way, but she. She said we had to throw things at you in order to make it more of a horse race. I was like, well, thanks for that, by the way. I was like, I knew it. Actually, there were some times where I got challenges and I knew you were coming for me, so I'm glad I wasn't just paranoid.

I love that. So you felt that the Lord was clearly leading you to step out in faith and do this right?

Yeah.

Boasting in your weakness. Looking back, obviously, we can't discern the mind of God, but why do you think he wanted you in this position? You won the show. You went on to have this. Have currently, present day, this wildly successful career in this. In this world. Why. To what end do you think the Lord has placed you in this position?

I really don't know, to be honest. You know, I've been able to touch a lot of people, and I've been able to talk about the Lord a lot, especially recently. I feel like my career is morphing a little bit where the importance of food and faith are sort of almost on the same level in terms of the amount of things that I talk about, let's say, on social media. I think it was, you know, for people who do follow Jesus, they could tell that I did, you know. You know, that happens sometimes where you're watching a show and you're like, I think that person's a Christian.

100%.

And then, gosh, the joy of Googling it and being like, I was right. You know, and so that's happened a lot. And so I think that's an encouragement to Christians, too.

I'm curious. So dig into this. This is interesting to me because you're not preaching the gospel with words on air at the Food Network, but I do think you're preaching it in an implicit way. Right. I think you're preaching it with your defiant joy, honestly. Right. And I'm curious if viewers have sent you, you know, Instagram messages and emails being like, hey, like, why are you so joyful? Like, what's going on here? Like, have you. Have you heard that from fans?

I think they just. They're attracted to the joy.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then, you know, people will say things like, I started following you because I liked you on Food Network, but I've stayed because of the way that you talk about your faith.

Interesting.

Yeah. And so that has really. I don't know. I think it helps to connect with people on a much deeper level.

Yeah.

And people talk about my joy a lot. I think what I have found is that when people are in trouble, you know, whether it's people on set, you know, people I work with, or people out in the world, they come to me because they're like, whatever it is that you have going on seems to keep you upright, you know, even when the waves come crashing for you. Because I've talked very openly about, you know, struggling with postpartum depression with both of my children. I've talked pretty openly about my husband being sick. I mean, I think these are things that people can relate to. And they're like, wait, but you're still standing, you know, and you still have a smile on your face, and you still seem really grateful, and it seems genuine. It's not made up. So maybe that's what it is. But I still am not totally sure why I'm here, except that God wants his people present in every aspect of life. And I think every aspect of things that we create and sort of create as our own mountaintops. We build skyscrapers. We build Internet connections, we build satellites. I guarantee you, in every one of those worlds, there is a Christian who is trying to speak light and truth into that world.

Yeah. And that's what we're called to do, to be a faithful presence.

Yeah.

Jeremiah 29. Right. Seeking the prosperity of the city, in food, in television, in media, in sports, in all these different places. I'm curious, did you grow up watching.

Mr. Rogers neighborhood no, we didn't have that in Dubai. Yeah, we didn't have it.

So here's this quote. I'm so convinced that the space between the television set and the viewer is holy ground. And what we put on the television can, by the Holy Spirit, be translated into what this person needs to hear and see.

So beautiful.

It's so good. And I. I see that in you.

Right.

Like you are putting forth this joy. And I think the Holy Spirit can translate that to people to make them big man. What is that? What is that defiant joy exhibiting?

I think that preaches well, I hope so. I mean, I know that, you know, the way that things work these days is if they see you on tv, then they go to Instagram to find out about you. At least that's what I do. Right. And so I. I hope that when they go to Instagram, you know, I do talk to. Every Monday, I write a little tiny devotional and I call it Monday Motivation. And I try to speak very honestly and clearly. And I feel like God has placed me. If there's a Venn diagram of believer and non believer, I'm in that little place where they intersect. And for me, I feel very privileged to be in that spot. And so I feel like I'm talking to both groups. So I have to speak in a way that is kind of clear and clear of a lot of Christianese.

Totally.

So that the non believer can understand it, but also so the believer can hear it with fresh ears.

Yeah, totally.

So that has been a real. It's a privilege, you know, and it's something I don't take lightly. I think Tim Keller said that the thing about a Christian artist of any kind, and I would say a Christian creator, and we all create in one way or another, is that they're looking at the world through the lens of Christ. And so for me, when I'm looking at food, I'm looking at it through this sense of utter gratitude at the bounty, you know what I mean? I'm about to start a vegetable garden in a couple of months here. And I mean, just. Just stay tuned for the tears that I will shed. And you know, and also just the gratitude of being able to sit alongside the people that I get to sit alongside, and the fact that I get to talk to them and speak into their lives, and sometimes I've gotten to pray with them and pray for them and just check in with them, and it's such a privilege. It really is. And if it's having any kind of impact, honestly for me, that's that's up to God to see, you know what I mean? He's seeing that. For me, I just get to be there, and. And I get. I get high just off the privilege of being there, you know?

When I think about looking at food through the lens of Jesus, I think about Scripture's promise that when heaven comes to earth, we're gonna celebrate with a feast of the lamb, right?

Can you imagine?

I mean, I just love Isaiah's picture of this. Isaiah 25, 6. It says, on this mountain, the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, all peoples of all cultures. A banquet of aged wine, the best of meats, and the finest of wines. Right? What does that promise of feasting on food for eternity mean for you as a chef? Artie?

Well, the thing that I get caught up in is the word prepare. I get caught up in the idea that the father's hands are in the kitchen. You know what I mean? It doesn't say that he claps his hands and the food appears or that the angels prepare it for us. He prepares it. And for me, I know that when I cook for people, I'm all in. You know what I mean? I might have some music playing. I might have the Gilmore Girls playing in the background, I'll be honest. But. But when I cook the best I know, Laura, my best cooking happens when I'm all in, you know, and I'm thinking about the people that I'm cooking for. I'm watching every moment of the cooking process really carefully. I'm considering it. Is it time? Is it time to add the tomato paste? Has it cooked long enough? Like, I'm really 1000% focused on it. And so the idea of God doing that for me and for you and for all of us, that, to me, is such an expression of love and care that it's just too much for me to bear, Honestly, I think, as someone does that, does cook for people, and I think we all can sort of share in that experience. Even if you're making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, you know, you do it with care. Everybody has their own way that they like to do it. And so that kind of knocks me. Knocks me over and communicates to me just how much he loves me and cares about me and how much he's looking forward to it, how much he's. You know, when I get ready to have someone come over, I'm looking through recipes and recipe books and sort of thinking about the ingredients that I'm going to use, what time of year it is how I'm going to source the things that I want to serve people. That's planning, you know, and so all of those things come out of just that word prepare for me. And it's so rich, and it's so. It's just so sweet.

Cooking is worship for you?

Yeah. I mean, I remember there was this Indian market on the west side of LA called. Well, it's now called Samosa House. And the woman that owns it is this firecracker. I love her. And. And I remember looking. It's a market with also, you know, a teeny, tiny little serving area where she makes, like, seven different curries and samosas and all kinds of things. And I remember looking in the kitchen, and I was like, auntie. Because you call every Indian woman who's older than you Auntie. I was like, auntie, I don't know if you're aware of this, but none of your cooks are Indian. I was like, how are you. How are you teaching them about all of this stuff? You know, this is foreign food to them. And she said, oh, Aarti, I've taught them everything. I stand over them. I even taught them to pray before they cook. And I was like, you do what now? And she said, well, don't you do that? Yeah, I always pray just that I would be a clean. I would. You know, I would be clean and to cook. And for me, I was like, oh, yeah, gosh. I had never considered cooking as this sacred space.

You said this in your book. I think you talk about the sacred nature of breaking bread, but not just breaking of the bread, but the act of cooking itself. And I think part of this is, like, we use these Christianese words and they become so hard to define. Like, what is worship? Like? I. I love Rick Warren's pretty old definition of worship. He says worship is simply, quote, bringing pleasure to God. End quote. Real simple. So, yeah, we do that when we sing worship songs. But, man, I think Artie Sakura brings God pleasure when she's in her kitchen making things, because that's what he's gonna do. You're imaging him. The Lord's preparing a feast. Right. And you are imaging him, of course, in an imperfect way. But, I mean, how do we feel as parents when we see our kids imaging us and reflecting our character? Brings us joy.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, we can sometimes get so caught up in, like, God is Jehovah Jireh, God is El Shaddai, and he is all of those things, but he is first and foremost creator, Amen Amen. Yeah. And so when we do anything, we paint, we write, we crochet, we pull some things, weeds out in the garden, get in the kitchen and cook. That is creating. And so for me, that's. That's what I get to do when I go in the kitchen is I get to join with him and I get to say, my dad is a creator. And so I have that in me. You know what I mean? The same way that my daughter likes to cook, because she is my daughter, and she's kind of. That's through her gene line, in my gene line is creating. And so it's a really sweet opportunity to look at all the elements that he set up for me to play with. It's like he's put the paint pots out and the brushes and the water, and he's like, okay, go ahead. You know, I know that you can make something beautiful, and I'm just going to stand here and watch what you do because I think it's awesome. And then also, we get the privilege of having the Holy Spirit in us, too. So sometimes when I'm completely stuck and I don't know what I'm going to cook, I definitely feel. I definitely feel him like whispering, well, what if you did this? What if you did this with the butternut squash instead of a potato? You know, I'm like, wow, that was. That was 100% not my idea. That was. That was the Holy Spirit.

So you're basically saying the Holy Spirit in the kitchen for you is like in Ratatouille where Remy is pulling Luigi's hair. Is that the analogy that you lead it? Okay, great. I just want to be crystal clear. Listen, I've said this a million times on this podcast, a million times in my books before. God told us that he is love or holy or omnipotent or just. He told us that he is creative. It's the first thing he tells us about himself. By the way, speaking of your girls, have you guys gotten the advanced copy I sent you of my children's book that talks about this? Oh, my gosh. So Elia and Moses are going to love this. This is my listeners know. We're releasing this epic, beautiful children's book called the Creator in you so kids can get this early. I don't want them to have to be in their 20s and 30s before they see Genesis 1 for what it is God creating and then saying, hey, kids, I made you to create like me, so just go fill and subdue the earth and have fun while you're Doing it and do it joyfully.

Right? Yeah. And, and you know, even if you don't do it joyfully, guess what? There is joy awaiting you.

Amen.

On the other end of it, I mean, our, our girls kind of get that because, you know, their dad's an actor and their mum's a cook. And so I think that that creative aspect of God is pretty alive for them. But I mean, I have often, you know, I'm, I get, I get the reality that oftentimes when it's 4:30, the last thing that people want to do is now cook a meal. And especially if you have people that you're cooking for who might be a little particular. I'm not going to use the other P word. You know, it can feel like this totally, like, what's the point of doing this kind of thing? And I walk in there with the same attitude quite often. And on those nights that I've said, okay, I'm going to take a second, I'm going to breathe, I'm going to pray, I'm going to pour myself a glass of something and I'm going to put some nice music on and I say, all right, Lord, it's you and me right here. We're going to do this. Oh my gosh. All those things that I've been looking for, peace, joy, energy, comfort, inspiration, they're all available to me when I do that. And so that's why I say you can find the joy sometimes after you've actually done the thing that you didn't want to do, sometimes doing those things, that's the medicine that you actually needed in the first place.

I talk a lot on this podcast about if we believe that our work matters to God because it's a means of imaging him. Right?

Yeah.

We should care about doing it really, really well. Right. Because God creates with excellence.

Right.

And he can take our brokenness, of course, and do anything with it, but we should be striving for that. You have attained at least some level of mastery and at least two vocations, right. Journalism and being an on air personality. What have you found to be the keys to getting really, really good at what you do, Artie?

I think never stopping, I think just being curious and continuing to be curious. How did they make that? What did they use? Yeah, but wouldn't it go pasty if you cooked it that way? You know, those sorts of things sort of keep, keep me engaged. That has helped me move forward. There was a time where I wouldn't watch myself on TV and I don't watch myself as much as I should, probably. It's hard when something that started off as your passion then becomes your work.

Yeah.

And I definitely still struggle with that because I feel like there's a lot of pressure on it. And so sometimes finding the joy in it is really, really, really hard. But the thing that I've told myself is I'm just in this season right now and I'm trying to go easy on myself. I have two little kids, we just moved to a whole new town. It's okay that life feels a little difficult and obviously over the past two years, insanely difficult. But I think what keeps me going is I want to be a curious person until the day I die. And I think that will help me to always stay at the top of things, you know, and that's what I've seen when I, you know, what a privilege that I get to learn from Guy Fieri, who I think is, you know, at the top of the industry in so many different ways. And you haven't met a more curious person than him.

What does that look like?

Yeah, well, he's always asking, well, how did you make that? Can you show me how you made that? I mean, there's a humility to it, right? He's always reading about things, asking people questions. If he's curious about something, he finds the best person possible to find out the most about it. So I think it's having the humility to know that you don't know it all and that there's lots that you don't even know that you don't know. And so go out and find out about it.

I think humility is the common trait of world class masters because you can't get great without being humble enough. And all of these things are connected to me. Like humility leads to curiosity, right? And I think curiosity also leads to joy, right? Because there's wonder in asking questions and learning something new that injects joy into the thing that otherwise would become rote and routine. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, well, and I think also then tempering all of it because there are going to be perfectionists that are listening to this too. And, you know, me being one of them that sometimes can sort of feel like, well, if I'm not the absolute best at this, then what's the point? And we can get caught up in that even as Christians, because, you know, God says, be perfect as I am perfect. So to know that I am accepted and loved and provided for and taken care of, even if I am not the best. There are many things about the way that I cook that are not the best. I'm super aware of it. But it's okay. God's got his own way that he is crafting my career and my ability to help take care of my family and to help take care of his family. And he's going to provide for every need that I. He's going to provide every tool I need to do that. And it's not going to look like everybody else's road. So that's helpful to me because I can definitely get into a. Compare despair whirlpool, you know, and feel like, oh, I. I'm so ill equipped for this gig as it is. And how in the world am I going to go forward if I can't even do this and to just know that he wouldn't have me in that position and then just allow me to drown.

Yeah.

You know, unless there was something that he needed me to learn from that. But honestly, I think I'm in such like a. I'm not humble bragging about my humility. I really, it's like I have a lot of insecurity, you know, that I don't think that he would do that to me. I think that he keeps pushing me because he knows that I feel like I can't do it.

It's a good word in nowhere in scripture we called to be the best. We're called to do our best with what God's entrusted to us. I always think about the parable of talents and the five talent servant got the exact same blessing as the two talent servant. Right. Wasn't about being the best and being the one with the most talents. It was about stewardship. Right. Like, if you could summarize success in a word, I think it's stewardship. It's not about success. It's about taking what God has given and making more of it for his glory.

Yes.

That's what it's all about.

When I was younger, I took improv classes and one of the first lessons in improv class is focus out, which means if you focus on yourself, you will get paralyzed because you want to say the best thing and be the funniest and all of that stuff. But if you focus out at your fellow teammates and you figure out a way to make their ideas look like the best idea ever, then suddenly you look great. And so I've been trying to do that is like if I focus on doing really well and making myself look the best and look for my glory, then Usually I get really tight and impatient and just gross, like a gross version of myself. But if I keep my eyes focused out, for me it's focusing on the Lord and on people around me, then my ego takes a backseat.

I love it. Artie, three questions I love to wrap up every conversation with. Number one, which books are you recommending or gifting most frequently to others?

I wish my first answer was the Bible.

No, that's too easy. That answer won't do here. That's an obvious answer.

It's actually not even true. Right, exactly right. The convicting part of it. This is a tricky one. I mean, I often give, you know what, I actually give the Jesus Storybook Bible to people a lot. I think it's a really great way. It, it opened my eyes to the, the through line of the Bible and what the Bible is really about.

Yeah.

And it make. Puts it into these really bite sized pieces that people can digest. I can't help but use a food metaphor. So that I have given a lot.

By the way, that's my number one most gifted book.

Oh, good.

Yeah, yeah.

Another one is, it is a cookbook, but it's a sort of cooking theory book called Ratio. And it's all about how there are certain building blocks to cooking that follow very specific ratios. So if you want to make a quick bread, it's this many parts flour, this many parts eggs, and this many parts milk, and then you can basically make anything. And for me, I think that that's very empowering to know. Well, you don't have to memorize actual recipes, just ratios and then you can make anything.

So that's, that's really cool. I like that one.

I really recommend. Yeah.

Hey, and real quick, tell our listeners about your newest cookbook, which I love.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, it's called the. My Family Recipe Journal. There's no recipes in it. So the rest. You are the author of this recipe journal. So the idea is that family recipes to me are an heirloom. They're precious and they're sweet. We have one kabillion recipes available to us on the Internet. And yet the family recipes are the ones that are really precious because they connect us to our family across time and space. People that we miss, people maybe we never met, you know. And for us, it's also a way for us to record recipes that can thrust through the generations right forward to your great, great, great grandchildren who you may not meet right now, but you can sort of communicate to them. This is what I loved to Cook. And I'm saving this for you. I haven't met you yet, but I love you still. And so I wanted to create a space for people to record those recipes, because I have a recipe journal I started when I was 10. My mom started her own recipe journal when her mother passed away and took all of her recipes with her, unfortunately. And my mom was like, that's not going to happen to my girls. And so she's been writing her recipes down since I can remember. And once she passes, which she will, I will not only have the recipes, but I'll have her handwriting, and I will be able to show my girls, hey, this is where you come from. This is our family. And I think that that's really, really important.

That's good. Do you watch this Is Us on NBC?

I did watch the first season.

Yeah. But you've given up, so you should go back. You should go back and watch the episode that aired literally this week. I think it aired on March 8. It is a story of passing down a recipe through generations.

Oh, my gosh.

And it's really Goosebumps. Really well done. And as you're talking about this, I'm like, oh, my gosh. This episode was an endorsement for this family recipe. This is amazing. All right. I know, Artie, who might you want to hear on this podcast, talking about their faith and how it influences the work they do in the world.

You know what? I don't know if he's a believer, but I want to know what Tom Waits thinks about faith.

Who is this? I don't know who this is.

Oh, Jordan. Tom Waits is, like, the greatest singer songwriter of all time.

Wow.

Yeah.

Strong word.

Straight up. Straight up.

Wow.

He sings in his own particular way. He has many characters and voices and styles of music, but I think there's something in him that has reckoned with faith, and I would love to hear him talk about it, because he has such. Such a different way of looking at the world, and he's getting into his later years now, you know, and so I think that as you get older and you get closer to. To the end, you know, you have to be considering those things. So that's. That's my one answer. If I come up with another one, I'll let you know.

It's a good answer. I like it.

Okay, good.

All right, last question. One thing you want to reiterate from our conversation before we sign off.

I think what I want everybody to remember is that we can find the sacred even in the mundane things of our lives.

Yes.

And in fact, that's probably where you find the richest, most delicious bites. When I can slow down enough to recognize that God is with me when I was changing my girls diapers, that God is with me when I'm chopping onions and smashing garlic, that God's with me when I'm doing the dishes. I mean, that is a really good friend. Have you ever had a friend that will go and do errands with you? Yeah, I love being that friend. For people that is a really good friend because they're saying, your company is enough for me. Yeah, we don't have to have anything special to do. And I think to me when, when I recognize that it, it redeemed so much of my day and those hours add up to your life, you know, so it's not just God's not just with us on Sunday when we're worshiping and we feel the presence and all of that stuff. He's there when we're chopping onions.

Artie, I want to commend you for the important redemptive work I think you're doing every day. Thank you for your beautiful testimony and just for creating a craving in Christians and non Christians alike for that eventual feast of the lamb and more importantly, for the lamb himself, Jesus Christ. Guys, if you want to learn more about Artie and her work, you can find out more more@artysakura.com that's a a r T I S E Q U E I R a dot com. And of course, we'll put that link right here in the show notes. Artie, thanks again. I think that episode is now in my top 10 of all time of the Call to Mastery. I loved it. If you did too, let me know. Leave a review of on Apple podcasts, on Spotify. Wherever you're listening to the show, tell me what you're thinking about the podcast as a whole. Tell me what you thought about this episode and leave a rating one to five stars. Whatever you think is fair so that more people can find great conversations like the one we just had with Artie. Guys, thank you so much for tuning into the Call to Mastery. I'll see you next week.

Sam.