Alec Avierinos (2X World Champion Obstacle Course Racer)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I'm hosting a conversation with somebody who's following Christ and also pursuing mastery of their vocation. We're talking about their path to mastery, their daily habits, and how their faith influences their their work. Today I'm sharing what I think is the first ever episode with an athlete, a truly world class athlete. I'm talking to Alec Aviernos, the two time world champion of the endurance obstacle course race. This is a 24 hour race of totally impossible physical endurance, or at least impossible for Jordan Raynor. Obviously not for Alec, obviously, but two time world champion, indisputable world class, masterful athlete. And in this episode we had a lot of fun. We talked about what happens to you mentally when you're running a 24 hour obstacle race. In fact, I think Alex said his longest race ever was like 140 hours or something like that. Something absurd that definitely certifies him as crazy. We talked about how hobbies outside of your one thing, your vocational discipline can actually make you more masterful at your core vocation. And we talked about why you should, quote, write your vision in pen and your plans in pencil. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Alec Aviernos. Hey Alec, thank you so much for joining me. I think, by the way, I think you officially win the award for the longest geographical distance. Calling in from South Africa. How are things in South Africa today?

Well and sunny.

There you go, as always, right?

Yeah, We've got great weather if nothing else, that's for sure.

I've never been to South Africa. I've always wanted to go, but like, you know, where do you go in South Africa if you're going to South Africa for the first time for vacation? Is Johannesburg the spot? Like where do most people kind of land in South Africa?

Well, you would typically land at Johannesburg International Airport, but that's not really a destination for holidaying. Most people that come out for holidays go to the coast to Cape Town or they go to the Kruger park or one of the other Private nature reserves where you can go on safari.

Yeah, I gotta do that sometime.

Yeah, that's really good. And it's really great for you coming over from the States because The currency is 15 to 1, so when you get here, everything's virtually free.

That's amazing. Yeah, I gotta do. I think the kids would enjoy a safari at some point once they get a little bit older. So. Hey Alec, how old are they now? Yeah, so I got a five year old, a three year old and a newborn.

Wow. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. So they're a little young to go safari in South Africa, but one of these days.

Yeah, my four are a little bit older. My youngest has just turned 20 and she's in university. And then I've got another daughter at 22, also still at university. And then my two boys are 24 and 25 and they are trying to make their way in life now.

That's awesome. That's fun. So, Alec, let's start here. For our listeners who don't know what is an obstacle course race, they would.

Probably be familiar with it through a brand like Spartan in the States or Tough Mudder, that it's a military style obstacle course where you, you not only have to do trail running, but you have to climb and carry and drag and get through hanging obstacles. I think Spartan is by far the most popular brand in the States and it should be very well known. But obstacle course racing world championships is organized out of America as well. Chap by the name of Adrian de Janada heads it up and has been very successfully running it for the last six years.

And the one that you compete in is 24 hours long, is that right?

Yeah, yeah. So you get different disciplines within obstacle course racing. So from sprint racing, which is about 100 meters and 10 obstacles, it then goes up in distance and normally the obstacles get progressively harder as the distances get longer, or at least they do in South Africa. And the standard here is about 15km with about 30 obstacles. But when you go to the ultra distance, the hanging obstacles tend to get a little bit easier and the carries like sandbags and things like that get harder. And you're racing on an 11 kilometer lap and the objective is to do as many laps as you possibly can within the 24 hour period.

That's insane. I mean, I'm sure you get told that a lot, but that's certifiably crazy. So you're running this race for 24 hours. What are you thinking about? Like where, where is your mind for that 24 hour? Just intensive on your Body.

It's a very interesting question because I've thought about it a lot and apart from just focusing on the next obstacle or on the next run leg and trying to plan your nutrition, you don't really, or I don't really worry too much about, you know, how much of the race is left to compete in and complete. But I had two. I won the race in 2018 and again in 2019 for the old man category, the 50 plus category. But yeah, in the very different races in year one, sort of, I was completely unknown and I managed to lead from start to finish and win with a really decent margin over the competition. And in year two, my competition was unknown to me, but they all knew who I was. So I ended up having a very different race in the second year, considerably tougher.

That's so interesting. And so you're out there, especially that second year, you know, people are gunning for you. Right. I'm sure you've got a lot of these different thoughts going through your mind. I've always been really interested in how people practically apply Paul's instruction to take thoughts captive. And I think running a 24 hour obstacle course race as a world champion is like a really interesting setting to think about that question. So I'm sure there are lots of thoughts fighting for your attention as you run the race. How practically do you quote, unquote, take them captive? Right. And put them in their proper place so that you can persevere and run that race?

Yeah, but it was hard. And you're 100% correct. You have to be able to subject your body to the instructions of your mind. And actually I'll give you a very good example of how it works. When my daughter started racing with me and she was still tiny after a hard race, I asked her how she was feeling and she said no, it was hard. But she pretended she was the horse and the rider was telling her to go. So that's pretty much sums it up. You know, your body is capable and when you get to a place where you think you can't do anymore, you only really at about 40% of what you're capable of doing. So in that particular race I was really in a bad way at 40 kilometers and I ended up totaling 130. So I did almost 100 kilometers after I justifiably could have and should have quit.

Wow. And 100 kilometers. So for us in the States, we're talking 60 to 70 miles. It looks like you ran. Right? Is that right?

Yes.

That's unbelievable. So all Right, let's shift for a minute. We've been talking about mastered your craft in the world of racing, but I want to talk about your work outside of racing because what pays the bills, I would imagine, in your life is your work as the managing director of this impressive software development company. So racing seems like this is an avocation for you, right? A second vocation, a hobby. How do you ensure that you are excellent at the day job while also pursuing mastery of your sport?

That's a good question. I think it's interesting how I got to where I am as a sort of serial entrepreneur. If I go back and I just give you a little bit of history, I pretty much like you started out, you know, with marbles at school and then breeding and selling a variety of pets. Then at that stage I was very keen on surfing. My dad got me a job at a fiberglass factory where the owner taught me all about how to work with fiberglass and ultimately how to shape and manufacture surfboards. From there I got into manufacturing radomes and insulated equipment shelters and only then did we, as the cellular industry started to mature in South Africa, we started looking for new markets. I got into building computer labs and Internet cafes inside mobile insulated equipment shelters and unfortunately started doing some pretty big business deals with the government, which ended up being my undoing. So through this period, the sport really helped me. Between my faith and my sport, I could actually go through a period where the business went into business rescue and then ultimately it was liquidated. And in the process I started a new business from scratch. I salvaged the software component out of the previous manufacturing company, scaled it right down. Now only have about 12 staff as opposed to close to 120 at one stage, and focused purely on software, on app development and actually ended up in the healthcare space building client facing apps for medical insurers. And yeah, so the short answer is as an entrepreneur I ended up in the software space, but I'm not a software engineer, so I can't even write a line of code.

We have very similar stories there. So my whole career has been in software and tech and as an entrepreneur, not being able to write a line of code, but understand it, right, and read beautiful code. So let me ask you this, I've heard art arguments that hobbies, really serious hobbies like racing for you, can make you better at your main vocation, right? So in your case, your craft as an entrepreneur, have you found that to be true? Have you found that your kind of hobby of racing has made you a better entrepreneur. And if so, how specifically does racing involve your performance at the office? Aside from obviously, you know, health, right. And physical health, how else has it affected your work as an entrepreneur?

On the whole, I think the self discipline and perseverance that you learn through sport is directly attributable to business success. Knowing that you can overcome and that you can persevere and that the situation that you're in is temporary and it will pass definitely helps you to get through hard times in business. So when things went pear shaped, I ended up with a fair amount of debt and had to start a new business from scratch with debt at the same time, still service my mortgage and look after my family and not lose focus on being able to succeed in sport. So I think as a rule people don't realize what they are capable of. I mean the Lord has made us magnificently we are the most incredible machine that you can ever possibly imagine and if we do things right according to his instruction, we our bodies are capable of unimaginable feats of physical and mental prowess.

No, that's very, very well said. So speaking of that well oiled machine of humanity, I'm really curious about your D routine. Right. So you're super productive inside, outside of work. From the outside looking, it looks like you have a great relationship with your family, with your kids. So I'm just curious, from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, what does a typical day look like for you? Alec?

Yeah, I don't necessarily recommend my recipe for others. I normally wake up between 3 and 3:30am wow. So I'm on the early side of early rising. I start my day with about half a liter of water with a little bit of apple cider vinegar and lemon juice, sometimes some Himalayan salt in that. And then about half an hour after that, after I've been to the loo, I have a cup of coffee and in the meantime I've started with my quiet time where I spend time in the Bible app going through a devotional and reading and studying, meditating and praying and then that sort of lasts normally for about an hour and then I move over to planning my work day and spending time preparing for my work day. And then round about five o' clock between five and seven I go and start training. I'm very fortunate. We've got a phenomenal property and my son runs a commercial gym called Jokes Aside from Our Property and it's a functional gym. So I've got trail running and tires to pull and obstacles to climb and then all your normal cardio machines like ski ergs and assault bikes and rowing machines and the normal gym equipment, kettlebells and all that sort of stuff. That's amazing. I keep myself busy there for about normally in the mornings it's between half an hour and an hour and then I'm at the office, which is fortunately very close. I'm at the office at about 8 normally don't travel all that much and then head home around about 4pm and then in the evenings. Now I've got a slightly new routine. I've started coaching. Well, it differs every day but I've got a whole bunch of old timers that I'm trying to get off the couch and get healthy and fit. So between five and six I'll work out with them and then have dinner. At the moment I only eat once a day normally dinner with the family and then head to bed. I'm normally in bed by round about 9, 9:30 at the latest and that's pretty much my day.

Wow. So you mentioned, you mentioned for your quiet times spending time in the Bible app. I'm assuming you mean the YouVersion Bible app. Is that, is that where you discovered my for the first time?

Yes, it is.

Okay, interesting. That's funny. So I'm really curious, have you read any really great plans lately? Not mine, other people's plans that you would recommend to others?

Yeah, I'm a big fan of Craig Groeschel and he's got a number of really awesome plans and his theme at the moment as a church sermon series is quite great. It ties in with what I'm up to at the moment. He's calling it the Warrior series and to circle back, you know, since coming back from World Champs I've really sort of been impressed upon by the Lord to try and focus on helping others to lead sort of victorious purposed healthy lives. We've really got a serious situation with lifestyle diseases. Well, not only in South Africa but in the States too. And yeah, I believe that there's a lot of Christians that are, they go to the Bible for spiritual instruction but they ignore all the nutritional and physical instruction that we given to look after and cherish and nurture our bodies. And if your body isn't healthy, you need to house your mind in a healthy body in order for you to be able to live out your purpose and to, you know, put the effort into the Lord's kingdom and doing something of meaning and you can do much better if you healthy. So I'm trying to get and encourage as many people as possible to pursue a healthy lifestyle.

I love that. And so getting a little bit more practical there. Right. So I've read some of your thoughts on this topic. Right. And talking about the ideal priorities for life being, you know, number one, spiritual, number two, mind and soul, and number three, body. Right. Physical fitness. Can you talk about those priorities and why you put them in that order?

Well, the most important is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. And a lot of people think that that's the ticket to heaven and that's the end of the journey, but that's really just the beginning. Amen. And you really need to renew your mind. And there's more than enough content out there to help you do this Biblical content. And if you understand who you are in Christ, that you are an overcomer and that you are wonderfully and masterfully created, and that the Holy Spirit lives and dwells within you and empowers you on a daily basis, it really sets you up for success. And once you've got that right and you are then able to be obedient to the Word, the Bible is very clear. Over and over and over again, we called to act on what the instructions are that we're given in the Bible, not robotically, but out of love and out of worship. And worship, yes. And when you come at it from that place and you realize that there's a right and a wrong way to do things, and if you prepare to make small habitual changes based on the Word, then you're going to become more and more victorious and successful in your daily life. And people overlook that. You know, they. I suppose to a certain extent, we understand the principle of brushing your teeth daily in order to make sure that you don't get cavities, but they don't carry that through to exercising daily or to their nutrition or, you know, once you start applying things that you learn spiritually into the physical body, then you really start to be more victorious in your daily life.

Yeah. So, Alec, you've mentioned the word victory a lot and us being victorious in life. And obviously to do that, we have to be healthy. I'm really curious. Is a world champion athlete, how has the gospel specifically impacted. Impacted how you think about victory and defeat? Right. So obviously you're running to win, as Paul says. But how does the Gospel affect your outlook on the outcome of your striving and the outcome of your pursuit of mastery of your craft?

I think the gospel, I think it's very clear that we need not be defined by, by our successes or our Failures. So our view and understanding of who we are as victorious in Christ, there's nothing that we can do to earn that. So it's a bonus that my performance was good enough to win World Champs. I went to do my best, and my best was good enough to win. But had I not won, I would have come away from that knowing that I had done my best, and I would have been satisfied with the result regardless of what it was. So fortunately, and I think in year two, where I had to dig deep, you know, you talk about those marginal gains that if I compare year one and year two, in year two, I arrived there possibly overconfident. I went almost 10 kilos lighter, considerably fitter, and maybe a little arrogant. And the race cut me down to size. My competitor cut me down to size, and I had to be able to draw on it. So one of the things that I go through over and over and over in my mind in situations like that is it's a saying that my mom taught me, comes back through generations in the family, and it basically says, good, better, best. Let us never rest until our good is better and our better, best. And that's what I try to do. Whether I'm training, whether I'm working, whatever I try to do is I'm trying to do better than what I did previously and striving to do my best, and hopefully that's good enough to get the result that I want. And I don't know if that answers your question, Jordan, that you articulated it.

Better than I ever could have. Right. The Gospel gives us the security, the victory in Christ, the ultimate victory in Christ, and allows us to approach the pursuit of mastery with great confidence, right? That in victory or defeat, we are still in Christ. You know, you're talking about being content in all things. It reminds me of Philippians 4:13, right? I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me. We take that verse out of context so much, especially in sports, as we use it as kind of a mini motivational speech. Oh, I can do all things. I can win this race through Christ who strengthens me. When the context of that verse is about contentment, right? Paul talks about how he can be content in all things through Christ who strengthens him. He can be content whether he's victorious or defeated, because he has the ultimate victory in Christ. And your life is such a great example of that, Alec. So, hey, Alec, I got three questions I want to end with, to ask every single guest that comes on the call to mastery. First one, I'm really Curious. Which books do you recommend or give away the most to other people?

I'm not trying to suck up to you, but I really like your book and I've been trying to get as many hands on the call to create, I think as an entrepreneur coming closer to home. My son studied entrepreneurship at university and went straight into the mission field. So, you know, there's this continual tug between the perception that you need to be in ministry and in the mission field to be serving the Lord when actually we are all called to create. And your book articulated it so well and it was such a parallel to my life that that's definitely one I'm looking forward to reading your new book when I get it. Another one that really benefited me was by Dave Yarns. It's called the Three Circle Strategy for a Fulfilling Life, which is really good. And then a little closer to home, a course who's become a really good friend of mine, Gavin Porter. And he does a course called God's Vision, God's Mission, where he basically traces the Lord's objectives right through from Genesis to Revelation and gives you a really clear understanding. And in the process you really get to understand who you are in Christ.

I love that. Alec, what one person would you most like to hear talk about how their faith influences their work on this podcast?

I think you would have a really good conversation with Craig Groeschel. I know he's a pastor, but he's a tremendous business leader. He's got unbelievable insight into how to apply the biblical instruction into leadership and I would really like to hear the two of you having a chat.

Yeah, Craig's a great answer. I mean, for obvious reasons, on this podcast we're trying to highlight people like you, right, who are doing ministry outside of the four walls of the church. But you're right, Craig is such a phenomenal leader and has so much wisdom to share on the topic of leadership, as has been informed by his relationship with Christ and his leadership of his church. So I actually like that answer a lot. We'll try to get Craig on. Alright, last question. Alec, what single piece of advice would you give to somebody who, like you, is trying to do their most masterful work, their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others?

They need to be persistent, they need to put small habits that they can stick to and they basically just need to doggedly stick to it. They need to write their vision down in pen and write their plans down in pencil, focus on their end objective and just get stuck in. And that's what we should be doing and doing it to the best of our ability.

I love what you just said. Write your vision down in pen and your plans down in pencil. That jives really well with. We heard Horst Schultze, the co founder of the Ritz Carlton, on the podcast a while back and it's very similar to what he said, right? God's giving you a vision that doesn't change, but the way to get there, right? The plans, the strategy, the tactics, those things change over time. So, hey, Alec, I just want to commend you for just your perseverance in pursuing the work that you feel called to master. Thank you for your gospel centric approach to competing as an athlete, for your model of discipline and grit. And yeah, just thank you for your commitment to mastering your work inside and outside of the office as a means of glorifying God. Hey, if you're interested in connecting with Alec, be sure to check out his website, almightywarriors Co Za. He's got a fantastic e book right there that I have perused with some great practical tips on how to live your most healthy life for the glory of God and to ensure that you can do your most masterful work for the glory of God and the good of others. Alec, thank you so much for hanging out with me and having a conversation here on the Call to Mastery.

Thank you, Jordan, it's been a pleasure. And please keep up the good work. You're an inspiration to many.

What a terrific episode. Alec is an inspiration, to say the least. It makes me feel terrible about my life and physique, but hey, that's what the Call to Mastery is all about, right? Pushing us all to be better, healthier, more masterful for the glory of God and the good of others. So, hey, if you enjoyed this episode, do me a huge Favor, go take 20 seconds, 30 seconds, and go review the Call to Mastery on Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you're not already subscribed, make sure you hit the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode in the future. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of the Call to Mastery. I'll see you next week.