Anna Kemp (Grad Student)

Today's episode will begin in three minutes. But first I want to tell you about something crazy I'm doing for my new book, five Mere Christians. I've never seen an author do this before, but I'm giving a money back.

Guarantee on this book.

I'm so confident you're gonna love this book that if I'm wrong, if you pre order the book, you don't love it, I'm gonna send you a $20Amazon gift card as a money back guarantee. Why? Two reasons. One, this is a different book for me, right. I know this is a very different biography. What is Jordan Rayner doing? And I know it's risky, so I'm going to de risk it for you. Because listen, in my other books, Redeeming youg Time, the Sacredness of Secular Work, Master of One, etc, etc, I am telling you and me how we can glorify God in our work, but in five Mere Christians, I'm doing something very different. I'm showing you what that looks like practically through these unforgettable life stories of five Mere Christians from history. These are the top men and women that I would love to have on this podcast today if, you know, they weren't dead, right? So that's the first reason this is a risk and I'm gonna de risk.

This book for you.

Here's the second reason. I'm just confident you're gonna love this book. My friend Mark Batterson said, quote, five Mere Christians proves that biographies can be extremely entertaining, profoundly helpful, and mercifully short. If you're looking for a book that combines the punch of a great sermon.

With the pace of a great thriller, this is it.

Highly recommended.

End quote. But here's the thing.

In order to qualify for this money back guarantee, you got to do two things. Step one, pre order five Mere Christians in any format, hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And then step two, go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form on that page and that's it. But you got to do it by midnight Eastern Time on May 9. By filling out that form, you'll also get all of the pre order bonuses listed on 5merechristians.com and be entered to win this crazy, epic trip for two to Europe. So visit 5meerchristians.com right now to sign up. Now, please enjoy today's episode.

Hey friend. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast. I'm Jordan Raynor.

And how does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians?

Those of us who aren't pastors or religious professionals, but who work as Court reporters, occupational therapists, and surveyors. That's the question we explore every week.

And today I'm posing it to Anna Kemp. She's a physician assistant, but today we're actually talking about the work she recently wrapped up as a grad student at.

The University of Oklahoma. Anna and I had a phenomenal conversation. I felt like I learned so much in this episode. We talked about what convicted her to.

See her job as a student as a vocation and not just preparation for some future vocation. We talked about how to view the.

Hardest parts of your job as cross training.

And we talked about how to make time for relationships at work, even when.

You'Re as swamped as a grad student.

Trust me, friend, if you're a student.

Or not, you are not going to want to miss this terrific episode with my new friend, Anna Kemp. Hey, Anna Kemp, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to get to have this conversation.

Yeah. And hey, we're going to be talking in and around your current employer, big hospital. We're going to talk about your. Where you went to grad school probably a little bit. So just to satisfy all the lawyers in the room, can you confirm you're speaking for yourself here and not your employer or school?

Yes. Anything I share today is fully my own opinion does not reflect my employer or any academic institutions I've been a part of.

There you go. We need, like an AI bot to, like, write funny versions of, like, legal disclaimers. Hey, so Anna, I decided to title this episode Anna Kemp, Grad Student. But you've actually graduated from. From grad school. You're now working as a physician assistant.

But when you filled out our pre interview survey to come out of the.

Show, you said you really wanted to focus on the work you had just completed in grad school. Tell me why.

I'm a pretty new healthcare provider. I finished PA school only about a year and a half ago. I don't feel fully qualified to talk about what it means to honor God as a PA or a healthcare provider because I'm very new to it. But I do feel very qualified to talk about what it means to honor God as a student because I did it for so many years in college and then in PA school. And so. And I feel like that's a vocation that we forget about is the vocation of a student. And so that's why I wanted to be able to talk about that.

I love it. And as I admitted to you before we started recording when you reached out.

I was like, I cannot believe we.

Have not had a single episode of the Mere Christians podcast. We're almost 300 episodes deep talking about the work of students. That is a mind blowing oversight on my part. So we're going to rectify that today. So, hey, you mentioned in your pre interview that you had some godly mentors in your life who taught you to see that time in particularly grad school, quote, not just as a stepping stone on the way to an eventual vocation, but as a vocation within itself. End quote. Tell me more about what you mean and what you learned from those mentors.

Yeah, so I had a whole bunch of people early on in college and then throughout college and in PA school who taught me to see my time in school not just as preparation for the future, but also, but equally as a calling from God in the present in lots of different ways. I had a lot of mentors. I'll tell you about three of them. The first one was a professor at my college orientation. We had different lectures that we went to and this professor gave a talk on how to make the most of your college years. And he presented this idea that at the end of the four years or however long you spend in school, you don't just graduate with a degree. You're also becoming a certain type of person over the course of those four years who's going to be using that degree. And so what kind of person intentionally are you developing into? How are you growing in faith and character and friendship during that time to be able to then effectively utilize that degree? And he talked about developing the gifts that God has given you. Not just waiting until you have a degree to use the gifts that God has given you, but using those and developing those now. And he shared this quote that I kept on my bulletin board for years. It's from a book by David I. Smith. And it just, I feel like it summarizes this idea really well. The quote is this. Perhaps we can think of students who are waiting for life to push them into some perfect calling, when perhaps they simply need to begin walking, to begin using their gifts to honor God and meet the needs of others, so that in the very walking they become pilgrims whose path God can guide.

It's good. It's really good.

Anyway, so that was the talk. Those are some of the ideas that really started the summer before my freshman year of college that had a big impact in how I saw the rest of my college years.

That's good. I just wrote this devotional series called God's will for your work. And one of the main points was the scripture actually says very, very little about God's will for you in this future state. Right. What job you're going to do, where you're going to work, who you're going to marry, where you're going to live. But it says a whole lot about God's will for you today in the present. And I think we spend all of our time thinking about what's next when Jesus has called us to be faithful with what's right now.

Right.

It sounds like that's the big takeaway that you got from these mentors in grad school.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Another person who really impacted the way I saw my time as a student, as a vocation was my cousin Gage. Gage was a year ahead of me in college, and he was also a science major. And we had grown up being good friends and had lots of conversations about faith and work and healthcare and biology and science. But there was one conversation in particular that stands out. I remember we were in a study room in the library and studying our different classes together, and someone. There was a big whiteboard in the room, and someone had left a diagram of the Krebs cycle, which is this. It's this pathway that happens in every cell of the body. It's kind of a rite of passage. Every freshman biology major has to learn this.

Thank God I never had to learn this.

Anyways, yeah, it's. I don't know, it's something everyone does. And. Anyways, but I was there studying with Gage and. And he looked at this whiteboard and he just. He just looked at it and he said, you know, Anna, some people climb up onto a mountain and they look out at the sky and the mountains and they say, man, this is where I see God. And Gage pointed at the whiteboard and looked at it and he said, this is where I see God. And that was just a light bulb moment for me that I think it was in that moment that I realized, oh, God is present in my studies. And I can choose to see my studies this way, not just as a means to an end of completing a course towards a degree, but also as an ends in itself of learning more about what my God has created.

And that work of studying is a means of studying to him. My friend Mark Barson says every ology is a branch of theology.

Oh, I like that.

Every. Yeah, every. Every discipline, especially the sciences, could teach us about God. All right, you talked about the professor. You talked about Gage, who's the third person who shaped Your thinking on this?

Yes. So the third person was another professor, and she started the first class of a semester with a liturgy. And I remember liking the liturgy, but I stuck it in a desk drawer, forgot about it, and somehow that liturgy made it out of my college move, made it up with me to Tulsa for graduate school. And I rediscovered it during my first or second semester of PA school, noticed it again, and I taped it on my computer and it became. It became something that I really liked and helped me, something that helped me focus my studies and became a way to dedicate my studies to God. When I got up at 5am with my cup of coffee and did not feel like studying. But I'll read you. I'll read you a few lines from it.

Yeah.

It says, may the Lord strengthen me each day with focus and perseverance. May the Lord bless my classes, making me hungry to learn and eager to understand and remember. May my semester be fruitful with my efforts, bringing glory to the Lord, and may I always know the joy and love of the Lord. That liturgy became something that I every morning before I studied, just a way to dedicate my. That study time to God. And it also became an attitude that I adopted. So that's when I really learned to like liturgies and appreciate that ability. I listened to. You had that one podcast with.

Yeah. With Douglas McKelvey from Every Moment Holy. Yeah.

Yes. I really liked that episode.

Yeah, it's really good. I love this. And, man, thank you. Thank God for these mentors in your life who helped you see the work as a student is a calling and not just a stepping stone to some other calling. All right, let's. Let's talk, though, about how that insight really changed how you did your work as a student. You said in our pre interview, quote, my approach to studying really shifted when I started to see my studies as a way to honor and worship God. End quote. How. So how did this show up? Practically, you mentioned the liturgy. What else?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways. One big thing is it was no longer about getting good grades, traits, less about the result, which I couldn't control, but more focused on how. I was studying a lot more focused on the how. Learning to rely on God's strength for studying, pursuing excellence in my studies to the glory of God, doing my studies with honesty and integrity, even if it didn't matter to anyone else. So I was more focused on the how instead of the outcome.

I've been thinking about this for a book I'm working on right Now, a lot of our, almost exclusively the way we measure goals is based on the fruit of our striving, right? It is the grade in school. It is whether or not we hit this quarter's sales numbers. But, gosh, God doesn't need us to produce any kind of fruit. He doesn't need us to get any kind of grade. His purposes won't be thwarted. What he's called us to is faithfulness, Right. It's that John Piper quote. I say on the podcast all the time, my job is faithfulness. God's job is fruitfulness. And so man, like, yeah, sure, measure the fruit, right? Like, we believe we want our work.

To have an impact. We should be measuring the fruit, but.

We should probably be measuring faithfulness first. What did that look like practically for you in grad school?

Like, how did you discern whether or.

Not you were being faithful to Jesus in the. How you were doing the work?

I have to think about that.

Yeah. Not an easy question.

I think it started with prayer, asking God to give me the right mindset in approaching my studies and helping me to do it for his glory. Not necessarily for the right grade, definitely doing it with honesty and with integrity. I think as a student, it's really easy to let certain things slip by. I think doing it with an attitude of wonder and curiosity, and it's really easy to get caught up in the to do's all of the material that you need to get through that. It's easy to lose the wonder of what you're studying. And so just taking moments to really appreciate what I was studying.

Yeah. Talk more about that. I touched on this very, very briefly in my book, the Sacredness of Secular Work, because I think that is one way that we honor God and the how that we work is taking time to marvel at his glory as it's revealed to us in the work. Can you think of a story in school, we're like, oh, yeah. I remember taking the time to pause and stand in awe at God's glory and wonder at his glory. As I learned about concept X, Y, or Z in school, you kind of mentioned this story with your cousin.

Yeah.

Can you think of another story like.

That in PA school? One of the. In clinical medicine, one of the areas we learn about is what to look for on a fetal ultrasound. Kind of what, at what, how many weeks. You can see different things. The yolk sac, the. The embryo, when different limbs develop, when you can find the heartbeat, which, as a student, finding the heartbeat was harder than I thought on a. It was cool. When you could find it and, oh, you found the baby. But I remember, you know, we were learning about that, and at the same time, I was also memorizing Psalm 139. And it was one of those 5am study sessions where I was getting up and trying to learn, learn our obstetrics unit. And I just sat back and paused and I, like, I looked at these pictures of the fetal ultrasound and I just remember whispering Psalm 139 under my breath. Lord, you have searched me and known me. You formed the innermost parts of my body before a word was on my tongue. You know all about it, Lord. I remember also, like learning pediatric milestones, like learning when kids start saying one word and two words and just recognizing that before a single one of those babbles or words was on their tongue, God knew all about it.

I love that. Yeah, I think that's a great example of faithfulness versus fruitfulness.

Right.

Like, if you're just going for the grade, pausing to worship God in that moment probably looks like a waste of time. Like, I got work to do. I got to keep going. But being sensitive enough to the Holy Spirit to slow down and worship God and knowing that that faithfulness, that's the win. Right? Like, you got an A that day, regardless of how you did on that test. You know what I mean? Like, that's faithfulness. I love that example. Hey, you mentioned that studying for organic chemistry in particular.

Yes.

Was this crucible of sanctification. Talk about how God used that challenging class in your life.

Yeah. Another one of my mentors in college had this interesting idea of learning to see classes as cross training. He said, you know, not just focusing on the subject material that your class was focused on, but also seeing what God could develop you in that through that experience. And so organic chemistry was one class, and then there was another class that focused all on plants, which was like, to me, not super relevant to what I wanted to do. It was a good class. The professor was good, but it was just. It was hard for me to motivate myself to do it. You know, I wanted to do it with excellence, to the glory of God. I wanted to do it honestly. But it was hard to find the why. Like, why am I doing this?

Yeah, it's like me struggling with my kids about, you know, learning multiplication tables.

Why am I learning this? We have calculators. So it really helped me to see some of my classes not just as a subject material, but as what they were cross training me in. So organic chemistry was cross training in perseverance cross training, in learning to trust God for strength when I was really, really tired, asking God for strength to help me remember things. Organic chemistry was a class too, where I didn't do so well at the beginning and I had to come back from that. And so, and also just, I don't know, learning to trust God with the things that I. With my failures, with the things that I needed his help with that things that seemed kind of hopeless to me sometimes because there was a period where organic chemistry did feel kind of hopeless. So, yeah, I think it was. I learned to see my classes as cross training and seeing them as other things that God could develop in me.

I got to imagine that part of what made organic chemistry particularly effective in cross training you in perseverance and endurance is, from what I've heard, I've got no firsthand knowledge. Organic chemistry is freaking hard.

Yes.

Right.

Like, and that's the point. It is that hard thing, whether it is a class or for our listeners, a current job, that can be seen as a gift from God.

Because hard things are what produce endurance.

And strengthen our muscles.

Right?

Definitely. And they don't feel like good things often.

Yeah, it's. The pastor friend of mine says God's doing good to us even when it doesn't feel good to us. Right. But I really resonated when you were talking about this in your pre interview, when you talked about cross training and learning to rely on God for strength when my brain was just really, really tired. And I love that. Right.

Because this is part of the reason why I believe bigger goals are more.

Likely to cultivate intimacy with God because they force us to our knees.

They force us to rely on him for strength. Graduating from grad school, that's a big goal. Organic chemistry probably felt impossible, but that's kind of the point because doing hard.

Things forces us into a deeper reliance on the Lord.

Does that make sense?

Yes, I would agree with that.

One thing I really loved in your story is how you talked about prioritizing, investing in relationships while you were in grad school and probably had every excuse.

Not to make time for those relationships. Can you tell our listeners a little.

Bit about how and why you invested in those relationships while you're in school?

Yes. So there's kind of a backstory to that because I wasn't always that way. I didn't always prioritize relationships. And so the little story to start, it was my first month of college and I was in my first test week, you know, where you're about week four and all of the classes have a test during the same week. And so you're just studying a lot. And so that week, instead of eating in the dining hall with friends, I was grabbing to go boxes from the dining hall and going to eat in my room so I could study. And I remember at some point during that week just feeling kind of sad. And so I called my mom and, you know, told her about what I was doing. And she said, well, Anna, you sound lonely. And she said, who have you been eating meals with? And I looked at my desk and there was a stack of four to go boxes from the last four meals. And so that explains things. And so she challenged me, she challenged me to eat lunch with someone different every day. And that was one of the best pieces of advice my mom ever gave me. And it's something I've since advised other college freshmen to do. And they've also really benefited from it. That experience taught me a few things. One, it taught me that we're always going to be busy. There's always going to feel, whether you're a college student, a graduate student, or working, there's always going to feel like there's too much to do and people are inconvenient. Relationships are inconvenient. And so unless you prioritize them, relationships don't happen. And so having that practice of the night before, texting a friend, setting up a time to meet for lunch, doing that every single day, just taking a pause every day to connect, to build relationships, just became a rhythm for me and taught me how to do that as part of my everyday. And so that's something. And those friendships that I developed in college were so formational for me and such good things, so that when I went off to graduate school, that's something I was, I still wanted to pursue. And I'm so grateful that I did because those friendships in PA school, I think my classmates would tell you too, that's what sustained us. Grad school's hard in any graduates program that you're a part of. And so a few things that we did that really helped us cultivate those friendships was lunchtime was one of those things. There was a little group of us that we would not study during our lunch break. We would go all go sit together and eat lunch together and just connect in between classes. We go for walks. We made a point to celebrate different parts of each other's lives. We had a list of everyone's birthdays, and I kept a lighter and some candles in my locker and every single birthday, sometimes, usually it was at the end of class or before class, we would light a candle and everyone would sing Happy Birthday. One time we planned a triple bridal shower. We had three girls who were getting married within a week of each other. And we play. We pulled off this surprise bridal shower. It was great. We've been to weddings. I also went to a funeral for a family member of a classmate. So we were just really intentional about being there for the different big events in each other's lives. We also made studying fun. I had a little study group and we would get a big whiteboard, write out what we needed to know, make up stories and cartoons to learn these things that sometimes when some of these concepts come up at work, I still hear my friends voices and see the little pictures that we drew. And we took an environment that could have been very academic and dry and sterile and turned it into something very vibrant and beautiful and life giving with these relationships that I'm so grateful for.

You're really convicting me right now. Like, I'm not good at this. I'm not good at this.

In.

Listen, this looks different in different seasons of life too, right?

Not everyone has a college meal plan. Go to the dining hall.

Can't eat Chick Fil A. Or the metabolism to eat Chick Fil A, you know, seven days or six days a week. Yeah, no, but I mean, just recognizing that it's always going to be hard to make time for relationships and people and Jesus kind of always made that time. I am curious, what is this looking like in the season you're in right now? As a pa, how are you intentionally prioritizing relationships? Are you still doing lunch with different.

People each day you're at the office?

Like, talk to us about what this is looking like now that you're in your career.

Well, to preface that question, I am still figuring that out. I started this job a little less than a year ago. And so one thing that I have started doing recently is taking a lunch break with one of my colleagues. And we take that time to connect. So that doesn't happen every day. Some days there's, you know, patient care and it just doesn't permit that.

It's again, different season.

Yes, I know.

Because some people are listening to your story, Anna. In grad school, they're like, that's impossible. You don't understand my context. And you're like, no, I get it. Like, that is impossible.

Some days, yeah, it feels impossible. But another thing about, you know, living in Dallas, my friends live all over the Dallas Metroplex and so, you know, it's certainly not an everyday thing that I see them. You know, I have a church group that I see once a week, and then I have. I try to make plans to connect with different friends at least once or twice a week, whether sometimes. And that looks different depending on the week. So sometimes it's dinner with a friend, some days it's a walk, some days it's. I don't know, I have a group of friends and sometimes we'll all meet at someone's house and we'll do a bring your own dinner so no one has to cook.

Yeah, it's great.

So, yeah, I think it's. It's something I'm still figuring out, but it's still. I think that practice in college and in graduate school of learning to prioritize relationships is something. Something that I've carried with me, and I'm still figuring out what that looks like in this season.

Speaking of carrying things with you, I am curious. You, more than most people I would imagine, really viewed your time in school as a vocation.

Right.

And I'm curious how that choice of living out your vocation as a student has translated into the work you're now doing in the professional world. How have you seen that impact the work you're now doing as a pa?

It's translated more than I thought because, you know, I finished PA school about a year and a half ago. I'm done with higher education. But I realized very quickly once I started my job that in a way, I'm still a student. I joined a group that there's so much to learn, and really keeping that mindset of a student who is eager to learn has been very helpful. I remember studying proverbs in the few months before I was going to start my job, and I remember noticing multiple iterations of the same idea that the wise seek out wisdom. Correct the wise and they will become even wiser. The wise take correction and become even wiser. And I remember noticing, like, oh, like I. My first thought would be that a wise person shouldn't need correction. A wise person should need more wisdom. But the wise person is one who seeks that out. And so I learned to see asking questions and not knowing things not as a shameful thing, but just as part of being new. And the wise thing to do was to continue to seek knowledge and to ask questions, to accept correction just with grace and to continue moving forward. And I think another thing about being new in a job, and I'm sure you've experienced this just first job or first job in a new industry is there's so much to learn. And I remember previous jobs that I had had throughout college. I always felt really awkward because I didn't know things and because I had to ask questions and someone had to take time to teach me things. But then I got into clinical rotations in PA school, which is where you have dedicated amounts of time in different areas of medicine. So you have four weeks in family med, eight weeks in internal medicine. And so essentially every two to eight weeks, you're kind of having a first day on a job. You're switching clinics and hospitals and medical specialties. And somewhere along the way, someone taught me, I think it was a resident taught me this phrase, a phrase to use when you're learning new things that I really like and that I started using and I still use, but it's the phrase, thank you for teaching me that. And because, notice it's not an apology. It's not, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that because there was no way you could have known. There's no way you can know things until you're taught. But I just really like that idea. Thank you for teaching me that. It expresses humility, gratitude, and confidence all at the same time. And just I got more comfortable being new and asking questions and embracing that idea that asking questions, not knowing things is not a shameful thing. It's just part of being new, and it's part of being a student in your profession. And really, being a student is part of pursuing excellence. My goal as a healthcare provider, as a pa, is to provide care with excellence, to the glory of God and the good of others. And the only way to do that is to continue to learn, to continue to embrace that attitude of a student who's eager to learn.

That's. That's exactly right. Anyone who said they've mastered something is not a master, right? That is the number one characteristic of a master is they don't believe that they've arrived. I read this quote from, I think.

This guy was a wrestler.

Actually, his name was Arne Anderson. I read this quote in phenomenal book called the Creative act. And he said, quote, I'm both a professor and student, because if you're no longer a student, you don't have the right to call yourself a professor, end quote. And I love that idea like we are all lifelong students. I'm constantly asking questions to which I don't know the answer, right? And I am happy to look ignorant about many, many things in search of knowledge and in Service a better honing my craft for the glory of God and the good of others. Hey, and I'm sure that we have many listeners who are tuning into this episode who are in school right now, undergrad, grad school, getting their PhD, whatever. What else would you say to them about how they can glorify God in the work they're doing as students today and not just the work that they're preparing themselves for?

Yeah, I think it's very easy to wish away your years of being a student. It feels like things are going to get easier once you're done with exams and the thesis and quizzes and clinical rotations. But your work is where your feet are. And right now, if God has made you a student right now, then take advantage of those opportunities. Think about how you want to do your job someday and practice that now. If you want to be a professional who practices with excellence, pursue excellence now. If you want to be someone who practices with excellence and integrity and honesty, practice integrity and honesty now. And I'd also say just to really take advantage of being a student, the point of being a student is to ask questions to learn. And so the people that you're working closely with on your internships, or if you're working closely with an experienced professor for research, your professor, any professors and teachers, pick their brain, ask them questions. Just really take advantage of that time of being a student and soak it up.

Yeah. Amen. As somebody, Almost goodness gracious, 20 years post college, I wholeheartedly co sign what Anakin just said. Hey, Anna, four questions. We round out every episode with number one, what job would you love for God to give you on the new earth? You want to continue to be a student on the new Earth? What do you want to do?

I was thinking about it. I would love to either be an artist or a dancer.

Who are you an artist? Did you spend time dancing growing up?

I did do some dancing growing up. I'm not very good at it, but I think it's, you know, my work now is very evidence based, very structured, and I would love to just have a vocation in heaven that is very creative and it's good.

Yeah, I like that a lot. Hey, if we opened up your Amazon order history, which books would we see you buying over and over again to give to those people who you've invested in relationships with?

I did benefit a lot from the book Every Good Endeavor by Timothy Keller. Great book, but I feel like on this podcast, that's kind of a given. So one of my other very favorite Books is called A Long Obedience in the same direction. Yeah. He has a lot to say about work. That book was a big encouragement to me in PA school and still now.

Yeah, it's good. Have you read When Breath Becomes Air?

I have not. I've. I've heard about it.

Oh, my gosh. Anna Kemp, this might be a top 10 Alzheimer okay for you. I've read it two or three times now. For those who don't know, this is the story of a guy named Dr. Paul Kalanithi. And a lot of it. The reason why I thought about you is, number one, medicine, Number two, school. He talks a lot about his time in med school, and number three, he comes to meet Jesus through the process of being diagnosed with terminal cancer. And it's one of the most beautifully written books I've ever read. I would say top three in terms of just the beauty of language. I would say that and Shoe Dog are the two most beautiful books I've ever read in my entire life.

Okay.

So you got to check it out.

Okay, I'll have to add that to my list.

All right, I'll send you a copy.

Don't worry.

We got you.

Hey, who do you want to hear on this podcast?

Am I allowed to nominate a family member?

Absolutely.

Okay, well, I would love to know.

Hang on, let me check our terms and conditions.

Okay, good.

We're good. Yeah. Family members are acceptable. Yeah.

Well, I. I think you would love to hear from my grandmother, Joanna Berry. She works in full time ministry, which I know you focus more on other vocations here, but I just think she's a really great example of that. You're never too old to pursue God's calling on your life. She went back and got her bachelor's and her Master's in her 50s and has spent the last 20 years developing a family counseling program and an international admissions program for an organization in Texas. And that's amazing. I think she'd be a really great person to. To talk to.

I love that. Send me her information. I love that. All right, Anna, you're talking to this global audience, mere Christians, some of them students, probably most of them not doing a lot of different work in the world. What's one thing you want to say to that audience before we sign off?

I'd love to share one of my favorite quotes. It's from Elizabeth Elliot and it says, the life of faith is lived one day at a time and it has to be lived, not always looked forward to, as though the real living were around the next corner. It is today for which we are responsible. God still owns tomorrow. So I really like, I think it's really easy to believe the lie that real life begins around the next corner once once we meet the next goal. But your work is where your feet are and we're called to live today.

Really, really, really great. Anna, you're wise beyond your years. I want to commend you for the exceptional work it appears that you did in grad school, the exceptional work you're doing now for the glory of God and the good of others. For reminding us of the call to follow Jesus in the work he's given us to do today, even if that work is primarily focused on preparation for some future job. And thank you for giving us a beautiful example of what it looks like practically to honor God in school. You are a gift to the body of Christ. Anna Kemp, thanks for spending time with us today.

Thank you Jordan.

I loved that episode. I hope you guys did too. I told Anna man she is wise beyond her years and I meant that. Hey, if you loved this episode, do me a favor and go leave a review of the podcast right now, wherever you're listening.

Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

I'll see you next week.

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