Asheritah Ciuciu (Author of Unwrapping the Names of Jesus)

Today's episode will begin in three minutes. But first I want to tell you about something crazy I'm doing for my new book, five Mere Christians. I've never seen an author do this before, but I'm giving a money back guarantee on this book. I'm so confident you're gonna love this book that if I'm wrong, if you pre order the book, you don't love it, I'm gonna send you a $20Amazon gift card as a money back guarantee. Why? Two reasons. One, this is a different book for me, Right. I know this is a very different biography is what is Jordan Rayner doing? And I know it's risky, so I'm going to de risk it for you. Because, listen, in my other books, Redeeming youg Time, the Sacredness of Secular Work, Master of One, et cetera, et cetera, I am telling you and me how we can glorify God in our work. But in five Mere Christians, I'm doing something very different. I'm showing you what that looks like practically through these unforgettable life stories of five Mere Christians from history. These are the top men and women that I would love to have on this podcast today if, you know, they weren't dead, right? So that's the first reason this is a risk and I'm gonna de risk this book for you. Here's the second reason. I'm just confident you're gonna love this book. My friend Mark Batterson said, quote, five Mere Christians proves that biographies can be extremely entertaining, profoundly helpful, and mercifully short. If you're looking for a book that combines the punch of a great sermon with the pace of a great thriller, this is it. Highly recommended. End quote. But here's the thing. In order to qualify for this money back guarantee, you got to do two things. Step one, pre order five Mere Christians in any format, hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And then step two, go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form on that page. And that's it. But you got to do it by midnight Eastern Time on May 9 by filling out that form. You'll also get all of the pre order bonuses listed on 5meerchristians.com and be entered to win this crazy, epic trip for two to Europe. So visit 5meerchristians.com right now to sign up. Now, please enjoy today's episode. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast. I'm Jordan Ray. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians? Those of us who aren't pastors or full Time missionaries, but who work as politicians and school bus drivers and software developers. That's the question we explore every week on the show. And today I'm posing it to my friend Asherita Chuchu. She's the best selling author of a number of excellent books, including Unwrapping the Names of Jesus. Asherita and I recently sat down to talk about what to do when you're bored with the word of God. There, I said it. Sometimes I'm bored with the word and I bet you are too. What do we do in those situations? We talked about what the various names for Jesus mean practically day to day for the work that you and I do. And we talked about how dabbling in side projects can cultivate creative rest that makes us even better at our core crafts. You guys are going to love this conversation with my friend Asherita. Choo Choo. Asherita, longtime friend. Not long time friend, few year friend. Finally getting you on the podcast.

Welcome, Jordan. Thanks so much for having me here. I'm so glad we're doing this.

We were just talking about the rebrand. From the call to Mastery to Mere Christians. You're all in. You dig it?

Yeah. I think so much is already packed into that term for anyone who's read C.S. lewis's book. And so I feel like already if I just saw it listed in Apple podcasts, I'd be like, yes, sign me up. I want this.

I couldn't believe that we. So we had a trademark on this. I was just telling you. And I was like, there's no way we're going to get a trademark for something so close to mere Christianity. But hey, so I want to touch on your story real quick. You grew up as a missionary kid in Romania. How old were you when you left Romania?

So I was seven when we went there and 17 when we left. Yeah.

Okay. And was overseas missions ever in the cards for you and. And your personal vocation?

Yes. Oh, man, Jordan. I grew up dreaming of being the modern day Amy Carmichael.

Really? Tell me more.

Yeah, I was going to leave behind everything and just serve God on the mission field. And man, those 10 years in Romania, it felt like the book of Acts coming to life. Like the way God worked so powerfully among the people that we served. I was like, this is it. This is what I want to do for the rest of my life. And I thought I'd be working alongside my parents, planting churches and discipling, and things fell apart my freshman year of college. It felt like an earthquake in my life. And everything from my parents Marriage, to their ministry, to my dreams for my future crumbled and I was left wondering, God, what does this mean? Like, if I'm not going to be a missionary, then what am I going to do? I never envisioned anything else and it felt like I had someone tell this to me, that if you committed your life to ministry and you change directions now, then you are not worthy of Jesus because the man who puts his hand on the platform and looks behind him is not worthy. And this was by someone later in ministry. And so yes, I'm not doing what I thought I would do 20 years ago. And yet in God's grace, it is so much a God sized ministry and also privilege that I get to write and speak and encourage women around the world. Here in Ohio, sitting at my desk, getting to put my kids on the school bus at not the life I thought I'd live. And yet it sounds cliche, but God's plans really are higher than our own.

Yeah, I can't believe you heard somebody tell you that explicitly. We hear all the time from our audience, of course, given the, the content, this podcast, very similar stories. I hear this story, I don't know, I'd say almost every day, but certainly a few times a week, explicitly being told you cannot follow Jesus and not be in the missions field or at a minimum, implicitly. So you leave Romania. What's the path to writing? What did that look like for you?

Yeah, so when I came back to college, start of sophomore year, I sat down with my advisor who was in the Bible department because of course I was majoring in Bible to be a missionary. And he looked at me and I was expressing some of my just, I don't know, I don't know if this is what God wants for me. And everything's so confusing. And he looked at me, he's like ashrita. Honestly, there's just not a great career trajectory for women in ministry. Like, it will be hard going for you to try to find a job if you continue this path, but God has given you other skills and you can absolutely continue to serve him right where you are, whatever you're doing. You don't have to major in Bible, you don't have to have a 40 hour a week job in a church in order to serve Jesus. You can serve wherever you are. And so let's look at some of the other interests and gifts and ways that you might enter a secular career field and serve him there. And I had always enjoyed writing and reading and from a young age I thought maybe I'd Write because Amy Car White Michael wrote books, and so I thought maybe I'd write. And so that was the next step, majoring in English and saying, okay, if I'm going to write, then I'm going to learn how to be the best writer that I can be.

Yeah. And tell our listeners the 30 second overview of what you're writing on today.

Yeah. So I help women enjoy Jesus through creative Bible habits. And that's everything from devotionals and Bible studies, but really looking at the cross between what we know right now about habit formation, as well as how that crosses over with actually enjoying Jesus and not just drudgery or discipline or trying to do the right thing, and rather how these practices and rhythms of prayer and scripture and meditation and worship can actually lead to joy and enjoyment and peace and life in him. That's what I'm super passionate about.

Yeah. And you don't just help women because even though I have a unisex name, I'm a dude. And I've enjoyed your stuff for a while now. And we're gonna talk about that in a minute. But hang on a second. So go back. You're writing, obviously nonfiction, Right. You're expounding upon the scriptures. But we were talking before we started recording. Your heart for a long time has been to write fiction and novels, and you just finished your first one.

Yeah.

That the world hasn't even seen yet, Right?

No one has seen it. Thank goodness.

Nobody has seen it. Nobody.

So I submitted the first. First two chapters to a contest, but no one's seen the whole thing, and it's not ready yet.

This is amazing. All right. Why take on this project? I mean, this is a very different project for you.

It is. And for a while, I kind of wrestled with, am I abandoning my calling? If I'm going to dabble in fiction, does that mean that I'm again turning away from the plow? You can tell there's some unpacking that needs to happen there.

Let's do it right here. Pull the chair. Let's go. Yeah.

Yeah. No, but, you know, as I was. As I was thinking about it, just. I didn't know the first thing about fiction as far as the art of writing it. But every time I would pick up a book or listen to a podcast episode, it was like something within me was coming alive. And so I prayed about it. I talked to God about it. I was like, I trust you to direct my path. If this is not right, then put roadblocks in front of me, because I can just be That, I don't know, thick sometimes, like, you just need me to get clear if this is not the way. But otherwise, I'm gonna keep going. Jordan, just this idea, this story idea, which I'm not free to share yet, what the book is about because of that contest I entered. But this story idea just would not let go. I would be, like, driving on the highway, and I'd hear the characters speaking to me, which sounds so freaky, but it's true. And I'd have these epiphanies of, like, oh, this is, like, what happened in her childhood to make her act this way. Or this is. This story needs to go. And it felt like play sitting down to write. And I really do enjoy writing the nonfiction books I've written. I'm passionate about it. I'm glad to have written it. Writing feels like worship to me, and yet writing fiction, this novel felt like play with the Holy Spirit alongside me. So I don't know. I don't know if it's gonna go anywhere or what the next steps are, but I'm glad to have done it and just starting to toy around. What would the next book look like?

All right. I'm curious if you felt guilt about making the time and space to play in this way. I mean, I do. I don't do a great job of making the time for play. I've been talking about this a little bit more on the podcast over the last few months. My listeners are very sick and tired of hearing me talk about it. But, I mean, listen, I wrote a book all about focus, this book called Master of One, Right. And really focusing in on your craft. And I wholeheartedly believe that still. I believe everything I wrote in that book. But I have started to believe more and more that play outside of the core craft can make us better at the core craft that God has called us to sink our teeth into. Have you experienced the same thing? So I guess two questions, like, is the guilt question, but also, like, have you seen you spending time in this sandbox positively impact the core thing you believe God's called you to do?

Well, I'll answer that first, because, yes, I think it has. There's a creative rest, I think, that comes with doing something different than the. The core focus of our work. Whether that is. I mean, for me, it can be something simple as arranging a charcuterie board, something that has nothing to do with writing. And yet there's beauty to the arrangement, and there's art to pairing cheeses with fruits. And my family enjoys the fruit of My labor. But whether it's something totally outside of what I do or something like this where it's a different genre, it did feel restful. And in that way, I think it energized me to come back for, okay, the next project that is nonfiction that I'm working on. Was there guilt in it? Not originally. When I first said, okay, this is the year that I'm gonna sit down and write this, I actually had my biggest nonfiction manuscript to write first. And so it was a hundred thousand words. It's called prayers of rest. 365 prayer devotionals. And ironically, for something on the theme of rest, it was work, it was labor. But I promised myself if I finish this manuscript by the end of these three months, then that frees up the rest of the year for me to learn and to study the craft of fiction and then to work on this book. So there wasn't guilt in that because I created space by dealing with my commitments first and saying, if I do this well, I just do it in a shorter amount of time, then that frees up the rest of the calendar year for this creative pursuit. But the guilt, I think, has come as I'm thinking forward now for the next five or ten years. Would writing fiction take away from my ministry, from what I feel called to do in serving women and men and children in a very focused, Bible teaching way? If I just write fiction, is that somehow being unfaithful to my calling? And that's what I'm teasing out just recently, just the past month or two in prayer saying, God, show me, lead me, teach me.

Yeah, it's a hard thing. I think about this quote from Austin Kleon's book, Steal like an Artist. It's like a decade old, but I think about this quote all the time. He says it's the side projects that really take off. And I found that to be true. I mean, Called to Create was the book that launched my writing career. That was a side project. I was running a tech startup full time. The Creator in youn, this children's book that came out in April, that by God's grace, is doing extraordinarily well. It's kind of a side project. I'd never done a children's book before. Right. So I don't know. I am learning to have grace with myself, to follow the spirits leading into those creative rest projects. I love. I love the way you articulated that because, number one, it does make me better at the court craft. And number two, those projects tend to feel like worship in A different way, in a fresher way. And they just. They fuel me. They fill me up as I do that work. So I'm excited to see what happens for you in this regard, Ashwarita. That's gonna be fun to watch.

That just makes me smile because you and I sharing about this, I think is testimony to the fact that we serve a joyful God, that he is not a taskmaster that is watching, looking at the clock, saying, okay, how much did you get today? Are you being effective? Are you being productive? No side projects for you? Nothing fun for you. Rather, he serve a creative God who invites us into that creative work. And sometimes that does feel like play and fun. And, I mean, how good of him? How good that that is the relationship he wants to have with us?

Yeah. All right. I want to go just one more layer deeper here because I've been thinking about this a lot. I was talking about this with John Tyson and Jefferson Bethke at this dinner we were having in Austin a few weeks back. And Tyson, John mentioned this quote by G.K. chesterton, who's talking about the joy of God. And he's basically making the point that, like, we as God's children have become old curmudgeons, right? Like. Like, we're so busy, like, doing the work of the Christian life for God that we forget that God is the source of joy. And Chesterton said, quote, our Father is younger than we, right? Like our heavenly Father, this eternal Father is at heart younger than we are. I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about that lately. I think that's right. And I'm wondering how that should shape the work that you and me and our audience of mere Christians do in the world. Can you doodle on that out loud for a minute, Asherita?

I mean, the first thing that I think about as you shared that, I love that imagery, that our Father's younger than we are, because it makes me think of my kids. And we were just recently on vacation last month in lovely hot Florida. And here we are at these theme parks, and in the midst of it all, they were gleefully unaware of long lines of like, okay, we have this ride reserved. We need to push on. We need to move on to this, like, where you're gonna have fun. Gosh darn it, you will have fun. Instead, they were just meandering. They were taking in, like, the wonder. They are fully present in the moment and not worried about what's to come and not concerned about what happened. And I think that's. I found that for me that when I am able to become aware of God's loving presence with me in this very moment, that that is where joy is found. That's something that I'd love to continue to practice. I recently, about two years ago, I heard someone say that hurry is the enemy of the spiritual life.

This is Willard.

Yeah.

Hurry is the great enemy of the spiritual life. This is Dallas Willard by way of. For most people. John Mark Comer.

Yes. And if you look at most kids, they're in no hurry unless there's ice cream being pulled out.

So hurry.

But they're not. And I am. And we are. Yeah, there's something to keep.

Yeah, there's something to keep noodling on. Yeah, I love it. Hey, your bio says that your passion is, quote, not just to get the unchurched out of hell, but to invite churchgoers into a joy filled relationship with Jesus here on earth. End quote. I love that so much. What would it look like for the mere Christians listening to display a joy filled relationship with Jesus at work every day? What does that look like? Tangibly, practically.

Yeah. Well, even though right now what I'm doing is full time ministry through writing, working from home. I did spend years in corporate America, actually in a call center. And so if there was ever a high stress environment, that was it for me. It comes back to much of, I think, what we talked about, Jordan, which is that the hurry, the hustle, the worry about either performance or productivity or like hitting that marker that your supervisor expects of you. And so the reverse of that, I think, is being that peaceful person that other people can pop their head in your office and feel like there's a sense of calm, like, oh, I can catch my breath now, that I did not do well when I was living in the corporate world. And if I have one regret about just my work life in general, it's that in my early 20s, I was so bent on proving myself and on being the best Christian I could be by having the best work ethic I could have. And if it meant that people got in the way, then too bad for them. And when we look at the life of Jesus, he always had time for people, even when they were interrupting him, even when he was hungry, even when he was tired. He understood. He modeled for us that we love God by loving people. There's no greater ministry than to be present to the person who is sitting right across from you. And there's joy to be found in that when we experience that same level of attention and love that God levels toward Us. When I spend time being still before God, not just going through my prayer list, not just doing inductive Bible study, not just checking things off my list, but actually being still and becoming aware of his presence, becoming aware of how much he loves me, not because of what I get done, but simply because I am His. He calls me his own. There is peace and joy and love to be found in that place. So we cannot pour out to others, to our co workers what we don't already have in us received from God's presence. And I think that's where that connection is. That's why I encourage people to think of spiritual disciplines, not internal, of something that I have to do. Like I need to cram in this three chapter reading plan before I pull into work in the morning, but rather looking for God's presence, looking for Jesus in the text, allowing him to see you to be fully seen and fully known and fully loved. Because only then can we walk into our workplace and then model that for someone else.

Beautifully said. I think what you're describing, I think Mark Sayers nailed it in the title of his new book, A Non Anxious Presence.

Right.

I think that's what our co workers are craving the most. A co worker who comes alongside and is doing the work exceptionally well, but in a really peaceful life, giving Jesus like unhurried way. Right. But you're right, we can't approach the work with peace until we have first experienced the peace that comes through Jesus himself. And remind yourself that before we are, whatever we do professionally, we are an adopted child of God. This is what you write about. You're writing about spiritual disciplines. And so I want to get a little bit more practical here because I know I struggle with this, do struggle with this in seasons. I know a lot of our listeners struggle with this. I making spiritual disciplines a meaningful practice that is not rote. Right. What tips do you have for our listeners who find their time in the word just frankly sometimes stale? They feel like they've read the same text a hundred times. What advice would you give to them?

Well, I've found myself in that place before and like you said, circle back around to it every once in a while. And the first time I really wrestled with this feeling of this feels dead to me. I understand I should be reading this, but I'm getting nothing out of it. What started the change was actually asking God, saying, God, you know, I'm bored right now. I wouldn't admit that to anyone else, but this is boring me. Would you make your word come alive? Would you make it spirit and life to me as I read these words. Would you stir in my heart a hunger and a thirst for your word? There's this passage where Moses looks at the people after having given them what we would consider the driest portion of Scripture in Deuteronomy, all these laws and regulations. And he looks at them and he says, these are not mere words to you, but they are your very life. And I think. I don't think I ever felt that way about Deuteronomy. And yet having this conviction now, having weathered some of those stale moments in Scripture and then experiencing the Word coming to life, I know it's possible. And so when I feel that way again, I circle back to this prayer. God, would you make these words spirit and life to me? Would you stir in me? The problem's not with the book in front of me. The problem is with my own heart. I've lost my appetite for your word. And John Piper would say that part of the reason that we lose our spiritual appetites is because we are nibbling at the table of the world. Too many worldly pleasures that are dulling our spiritual senses. And practically speaking, I find fasting to be a helpful spiritual practice in those seasons. Just asking myself, okay, where am I running for pleasure and entertainment? What is it that has a grip on my heart? And it might not be a bad thing. It might be a good gift that I have elevated above the giver of that good gift. So fasting, taking a voluntary break from something that might have a grip on me, and then pairing it with that prayer of God, stir in me a hunger and a thirst for your word, Jordan. Never once have I prayed that. That God has not answered because that prayer pleases him and honors him. And the reward of having his Word become the bread of life, the water of life, there's no better thing that's.

So simple and yet really, really profound. I mean, this is what we all want, is to crave, to want to devour the word of God. But I don't know many people who really feel like that. I really don't. I would say I don't feel like that the majority of the time.

I feel.

I feel like that often enough, man. But I don't. I don't know that I always feel like that. And just remembering that simple prayer, of course God will answer that prayer. Why wouldn't he answered that prayer? He wants us to want him.

Right? Yeah. And two, I think it's helpful just circling back to creativity, something that, you know, I'll I'll coach my readers is with whatever spiritual habit you're looking at, whether it's reading scripture or prayer or worship, like, make it fun. Make it something you look forward to. If you are an outdoors person who just loves being outside, then you sitting at a desk and closed in four walls trying to read scripture might just go against the grain of how God created you. And so take the Word outside, read it under the canopy of heavens, read Jesus Sermon on the Mount somewhere on a hill, feeling the grass beneath your feet, listening to the birds singing their song as you're reading his words. That would have been a much more likely environment for his listeners. If you're someone who's auditory listener. If you're an auditory listener, listen to scripture. There's nothing that says you have to read it on text in front of you. Or maybe you're a kinesthetic learner. There's nothing wrong with pulling out coloring pencils and underlining and drawing and coloring like the way we serve such a creative God. And I'm convinced that he has created us to connect with him in so many creative ways, and yet we compare our spiritual life to someone else's spiritual life and we think that there's just one right way to do it. There's just one formula of what it ought to look like. And we find that nowhere in Scripture, rather again and again, Jesus's invitation is, come to me if you're tired, if you're weary, if you're heavy burdened, come to me, I'll give you rest. And there's so many creative ways to do that.

We talk so much on this podcast about the fact that we worship the Creator God. I mean, this is the heart of the Creator in you. I don't think we've ever talked about it in the context of creativity in spiritual disciplines. I don't know how we have missed this obvious application of who God is at his core of a Creator. So helpful. Yeah, I think we could just be realistic about quiet times and think that there's one way to do spiritual disciplines. I think John Ortberg said something along the lines of one time of if a spiritual discipline isn't making you more like Christ, change the spiritual discipline. Right. It's like so simple, so obvious to me, but so freeing. And I hear you saying the same thing. I'll tell you what, though. I mean this. One of the richest seasons of my personal devotional time over the last few years was when I read through your Advent devotional, unwrapping the names of Jesus that you published, like, five years ago. I did want to go a level deeper on that and share some of that content with our listeners because I think it has direct application for the work we do in the world. And essentially what you're doing in this devotional is focusing on a different name for Christ each day. Right. For what is it, 20 days?

Yeah. So the four weeks of advent, there's five for each week.

I love it. And so there's a few in particular I want to unpack, if you will. Unwrap, if you will. The first one is King of Kings. I love this. I think we preach Jesus a lot as savior, much more than we preach him as king of the world. What implication can it have on the work that our listeners do to view Jesus as not just savior, but also king?

Yeah, I mean, when you look at Jesus teachings, so there was a core theme in his teaching, and that is the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is coming. The kingdom of God is here. The kingdom of God is within you. And so Jesus is the king of that kingdom. He's proclaimed that way. We see at his birth when the wise men bring him gifts fit for a king. And we see it at his death when Pilate unwittingly posts that declaration. Here is Jesus the King of the Jews. But we see also in the book of Revelation, when Jesus returns to fully bring his kingdom, to consummate that promise of his kingdom come, and on his thighs written the name King of all Kings. King of Kings. And the reason I find that so convicting is because we view Jesus as Savior. And oftentimes what we mean by that is Jesus saved me from my sins. Past tense.

Yep.

But Jesus as king is present and future tense as well. It means that he has rule and dominion over my life, over the world. And so regardless of who the president is that sits in office or what the political powers might do around the world, regardless of skirmishes and unrest and what the stock market is doing, proclaiming Jesus as king means that he sits enthroned over all of it. He sees it, he knows it, and he is still in control. And that can bring such peace, especially in these tumultuous times that we're living in. But Jesus as king means that he's also the one who calls the shots in my life. And I think that might be why we might be a bit more uncomfortable with that. Because Jesus as Savior. Thank God that He saved us.

Who doesn't want to be saved, right? Yeah.

But wait. Jesus tells me how I ought to act and that I need to love that person who was mean to me, that he is the one who reigns over my financial decisions, over my career decisions, over my relationships, that all of that is under his dominion. That is a much more challenging thought. And Jordan, that's something that I still feel like the Holy Spirit convicts me of sometimes. When it's like, ashrita, you're making your own plans, setting the course for yourself. Are you submitting this before the King? Man, such an incredible name.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. We also forget this too, right? At the resurrection, Jesus proved emphatically that he is king over this world. He has power over even death. The kingdom's not going to be fully consummated until the end of this age and at the dawn of the age to come. But in the present, he has made us his vice regents, his princes and princesses in the world to implement the kingdom. We. I don't even think we grow the kingdom. We use that terminology a lot. I don't think that's right. I mean, the kingdom is finite. God alone creates the kingdom, but while Jesus inaugurated it, we are part of the means by which it gets implemented. Revealed. Right. Pulled back kind of this thin layer between the kingdom of this world and the kingdom of God, the kingdom of Heaven. Right. I think we do that throughout our work. Right. Jesus is not just king over people, he is king over economies and businesses and all of the injustice in the world and ugliness. He's king over the universe and he's using us to make this world a little bit more like the kingdom of God.

Right, Absolutely. And I love that you brought that out. And I think another aspect of his kingship too, is that a king receives worship. Yeah, rightfully so, because he is the ruler. And we see this in the book of Revelation, that angels bow down before the King of Kings, that the elders, the creatures, that we don't even know what these look like. And yet, non stop 24 7. There is worship happening in the heavens before the King of Kings. And often I forget that that is reality. That is reality that supersedes what we can see physically around us. The worship of the King of Kings. And the fact that we get to join in with that, not just when we're singing praises Sunday morning, but taking care of our children is worship. When we do it unto Jesus. Giving a cup of cold water as unto Jesus is worship. The work that you do Monday through Friday, that can be worship if it comes from that heart posture of Jesus. King Jesus. This is for you, that's where we get to come alongside. Like you said, implementing God's kingdom of light in a world of darkness.

CS Lewis said work becomes spiritual. I think he would also argue worship. I think he'd use that term work becomes spiritual in precisely the same condition that of being offered to God, of being done humbly as to the Lord. So, yeah, it's this half truth that we believed about heaven and eternity that we're going to worship for all eternity. And the reason why it's a half truth is we define worship as singing. Right. Isaiah 65 makes clear we're going to long enjoy the work of our hands.

Right.

That's going to be worship. And we can enter into that eternal worship, get glimpses of it right now simply in doing our work, parenting our kids. As to the Lord. Right. As to the king. Hey, a couple others I want to unpack from this great devotional, which is old. I can't believe we're talking about this devotional. Can I call a five year old book?

There's never, never a bad time to talk about the name.

Never a bad time. Okay. This devotion, probably my favorite in, in the whole book, this devotional entry on Jesus as the word of God. Right. You mentioned that Jesus is God's creative word. What do you mean by that?

Yeah, so we see in John 1 that when creation was made like God spoke and so it was. But John 1 says that Jesus is the one that created. It is through him that everything lives and moves and has its being. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God and everything was made through the Word. And so in that way, Jesus is God, creative word, everything that it just delights us in the created world around us is a gift from Jesus, the word of God. And so that's what I mean when I say Jesus is God's creative word.

I love that. So what does that mean for our work, for those of us who are creating widgets at work or creating novels like you are, or just creating beauty in the world?

Yeah, I mean, I love that you keep coming back to this theme on the podcast of a creative God because he invites us into that creativity. Whether for me as a wordsmith, this is particularly special to me because I feel like I get to do a little bit of that wordsmithing and creating with words, but it doesn't have to be with words in particular that your work is. We all use words in one way or another. I joined in. I've been fascinating over the past Year by this concept that we have the power to bless or to curse. Life is in the tongue. And I think we take the weight of that power lightly, oftentimes. But I've seen it in my own life, not just in the ministry of writing books, but in serving and parenting my children or in loving my husband. We have the power with our tongues, with our words, to create possibilities in someone else's life. When I was a child, there were multiple adults that read just little things that I'd write, and they'd say, asharita, God has given you a gift with words. He wants you to use this. And they spoke blessing over my life. And I don't completely understand it, but I see it in scripture that God has given us part of that gift, part of that privilege to speak life into others through the Word. So does that mean that we create things with it? I don't know. Maybe. What an incredible, intriguing concept.

Hey, one more from the book I want to touch on Emmanuel God with us. I've been asking this question of a lot of guests lately because I've been meditating on it quite a bit. How do you personally ensure that you are doing your work not just for God, but with him day in, day out?

Asherita, do I do this well, day in and day out? No.

Good. Me neither. It makes me feel good. Yeah.

But over the past two or three years, I would say for sure, since COVID rocked our world, there's been this practice in my life of becoming still with him at least once a day, sometimes multiple times a day, and just becoming aware of his presence within me and with me. I love this imagery. I mean, Emmanuel God with us. Such comfort in that. But while Jesus is physically absent from our world, he has sent his own spirit in us as a seal, as a deposit, as a down payment of what is to come. And there's a practice in my life that I need to become aware of that. Like his spirit doesn't leave me when I don't feel him around me. He's just as present. It's just that I am. Am not aware. It's that my ears are filled with. With the cacophony of noise around me. Whether it's my own doing or. Or my mind is buzzing with anxiety and with so many thoughts that I can't hear his still, small voice. But when I make time to pause, to be still, to listen, to become aware of his presence that has never left me, it's always been there. That is what brings peace. That's what brings the reminder of, oh, this is work I get to do with you, not just for you. Like, you are here with me. I mentioned the devotional that I wrote. 365 prayers of rest. That was the book that I was most acutely aware of my need to write it with him because of that challenge of, like, so many words on the theme of rest. And Jordan, I never had an experience like that up to that point of writing. So much like pouring myself out creatively just being spent at the end of my writing time, nothing else to give. And yet having done it with him and being energized for the work, just such an incredible privilege that we get to do that.

I forgot you were working on this devotional project. I last year wrote my first daily devotee. Well, daily Monday through Friday devotional. We just announced it. It's coming out November 15th. The word before work, daily version. And I experienced the same thing. It was in the writing of that book where I realized I cannot do this. It was the first project I really came to was like, I really can't do this in my own strength.

Strength.

I need a real tangible experience of the spirit in order to do this. And I'm so grateful for that. It was a very hard project, but one I'm super, super grateful for. Hey, so again, I loved Unwrapping the names of Jesus. By the way, I was looking at an Amazon the other day for the first time in forever. 2000 something Amazon reviews, which is just freaking bonkers. Trust me, listeners. It's crazy. And now you're publishing kind of a version of this for kids. What's this new children's book about?

Yes. So the heart of Unwrapping the names of Jesus is that we would develop a heart of worship toward Jesus and that we would do that through studying his names. And so that has been my desire in bringing this into a picture book form for children. And the premise of the book is that we get to follow along with a little girl whose parents are Jesus disciples. And so she gets to experience his. His ministry from a child's perspective. And in doing that, every spread demonstrates a different name of Jesus. So, like, when she is there for the feeding of the 5,000, she experiences Jesus as the bread of life when she first encounters him and he gathers her in his arms. Jordan, the illustrations are just gorgeous. I teared up. I don't know if that was your experience when you looked at your children's book. Rose back. Tear it up. We've seen it looking at these, because the expression on Jesus's face when he hugs this little girl as the good shepherd, as the one who says, let the little children come to me. It tears up because I'm like, that is the heart of Jesus. That is his longing to gather us in his arms. Like. Like a hen gathers her chicks, Right? Our little girl follows along with Jesus. She kind of grows up over the. The three years of his ministry. She gets to see some behind the scenes, and we get to witness how Jesus interacts with her and. And with the multitudes as well. She sees everything up to the crucifixion. And then I included her in the group of women who come to the tomb and find it empty. But the story is framed by this little girl has grown up on the page one. She's the mom, and the kids are saying, tell us the story again, Mom. And so she gets to tell her children the story of how she met Jesus. And my hope is that through this, children discover some of that awe and wonder of who Jesus is, but also that parents would gain courage to share their own Jesus story with their children as well.

That's so good. I love it. I can't wait to read it with my girls. All right. Hey, Asherita, three questions. We wrap up every conversation with. Number one, which books do you recommend or gift most frequently to others?

Yeah, I mean, recently it has been Gentle and lowly by Dana Oritland.

Yeah, I'm reading it right now.

Yeah, I felt like it was so hyped up that I was nervous to read it.

Yeah, me too.

And yet, as I sat down with it, I felt like I got to encounter Jesus in a new way in the pages of the book and the pages of scripture. Scripture. And so I have been recommending that and giving that away. But for those who are writers or want to write and they ask me for, like, a first book recommendation, there's this little tiny book called the Art of Spiritual Writing, and that is the one book that I have ordered in bulk and given away.

I've never heard of this.

Yeah, it's not very well known. Okay.

All right, great. Who do you want to hear on this podcast talking about how the gospel shapes the world work that mere Christians do in the world?

I would love to hear a conversation between you and my friend Wendy Speak. She was an actress and then homeschooled her kids and then is now writing and speaking. And so I feel like she's had her. Her feet in multiple worlds.

I'm a big Wendy fan.

Yeah. Have you had her on?

Big Wendy fan. I have it's been a while though.

Okay.

She'd be a great repeat guest. Wendy's terrific. We exchange emails all the time. That's a really good name. Hey, what's one thing from our conversation today you want to reiterate to our listeners before we sign off?

Yeah, I think the one thing is just the reminder and the reassurance that if you belong to Jesus, his spirit is in you and with you wherever you go. And so he's never far away. He's waiting for you to reach out to him, to become aware of his presence with you. And there is, as the psalmist would say, there's fullness of joy in his presence.

Amen. Asharita, I just want to commend you for the great, beautiful work you do, your exceptional writings, and for reminding us. Yeah. That the names of Jesus have power and practical meaning as we go about our work and lives. Guys, the devotional book for us for grown ups is called Unwrapping the Names of Jesus. And I think you can pre order Unwrapping the Names of Jesus for kids. Now. When is it out, Asherita?

Yeah, so it's slated for October 1st, hopefully if we don't run into printing delays, but it is available for pre order now.

I love it. Great. Asherita, thanks for joining us.

Jordan, thank you so much for having me.

I love Asherita and her work so much. I hope you guys enjoyed that episode as much as I did. Hey, if you're enjoying the Mere Christians podcast, do me a favor and go leave a review of the show where you listen to podcasts. Thank you guys so much for tuning in this week. I'll see you next time. Hey friends, this is your last chance to claim all the amazing pre order bonuses for five mere Christians before they go away at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time on May 9. I've never offered this many pre order bonuses on a book before, so when you fill out the form at 5merechristians.com Number one, you're going to be entered to win an incredible trip for you and a friend to tour CS Lewis's favorite spots in Oxford, explore ole Kirk Christiansen's former stomping grounds at Lego headquarters in Denmark, and much more. Number two, you'll be invited to join my first ever interactive reading, culminating in a zoom call with me and my co author on this book, Kaylee Cox. Number three, you're going to be getting a money back guarantee to try the book risk free. And number four, you'll also get access to a free course. I'm not selling anywhere called how to write a book 10x faster and better with an Affordable Co Author Author. You can claim all these bonuses in just two simple steps. Step 1 Pre order 5 mere Christians in any format you want. It can be hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And you can order it from wherever. It doesn't matter to me. STEP 2 Go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form of that page. And that's it. I'll send you all those bonuses. You'll be entered into the sweepstakes with one simple form submission. But hey, don't wait all of these off. All of these offers, all these bonuses. They're going away at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time on May 9th. So visit 5meerchristians.com right now to claim your bonuses.