Chandler Bolt (CEO of Self-Publishing School)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode.

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Hey everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their vocation. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits, and how the gospel of Jesus Christ influences their work. Today's guest is my friend Chandler Bolt. He's the founder and CEO of the Self Publishing School, which has been on the Inc. Magazine's list of the 5,000 fastest growing businesses for three years in a row. He's built this business from 0 to 20 million in revenue in just five years, helped more than 6,6000 people publish a book. In other words, Chandler knows what he's talking about. About entrepreneurship and about writing books and publishing. Chandler and I recently sat down to talk about why it's critical to avoid asking what's new in my industry, in my field, etc. And what's next? And instead replacing those questions with two brilliant questions that Chandler is always asking himself at his team. We talked about the difference between light bulb and whack a mole approaches to management inspired by Howard Schultz of Starbucks. And finally, we had a great discussion about why every professional should consider writing a book, even if you never publish another one. What it can do to you and your path to doing your most exceptional work. This is a terrific conversation. Please enjoy it with my friend, Chandler Bolt. Chandler Bolt, welcome.

Jordan, Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

So when we were having dinner together in Colorado, you were pummeling me with questions and I kept desperately trying to turn the attention away from me by asking you questions. So now I finally get my turn right?

Hey, if you're asking questions and listening, you're learning.

That's exactly right.

And I like to learn. And you're a smart guy.

So let's do this. Let's start here so our listeners can learn a little bit more about you. I feel like they need to know a little bit about self publishing school. So real briefly, what does the business do?

Yeah, so Self Publishing School, we're an online education company. We help people write and publish Books that grow their impact, their income and their business, if they have one. So I like to think of it kind of like a, kind of like a business accelerator, but for books or maybe even a year of college. But it's better than a writing degree. It's helping people write quality books that help people that grow their impact. And then especially on the business side of things, if they have a business, write a book that gets more leads, sales, referrals, all that good stuff.

And it's a heck of a business. Talk real quickly about the scale of where self publishing school is at now in terms of, I don't know, customer serve, team size, however you measure that.

Yeah, so We've published about 6,000 books since we started in February of 2015. Publishing were from one to three books a day. We've got about mid-30s of like 35 full time employees or so, handful of contractors. We've been on the Inc. 5000 fastest growing private companies in the US last few years in a row just got Forbes 30 under 30. So it's been growing a lot. And we've been publishing a lot of books and we believe that books change lives. And so I love what we do. We love what we do. And so it's, that's, that's kind of the focus and I think that's a big part of why it's grown so, so quickly.

Yeah, there's a pretty dramatic catalyst for the founding of the business. Would you mind sharing that story with our listeners? Yeah.

So I'd written and published a couple books, one of which was with my brother. He plays in a Grammy nominated rock and roll band called need to Breathe. And so I'd done these couple books. They were doing pretty well. People asked, how did you do this? I dropped out of college about this time. I start kind of this business. We help our first few people publish books. And then it was kind of this crazy experience where, you know, I, I was on a rewards cruise for the company that I was working at at the time and they'd send their top performers to a cruise every year. And it was on that cruise and the very last day we climbed up to kind of like the highest part of the ship. It was kind of like this ceremonial celebratory kind of yearly thing that we did each year. Just kind of feeling like, hey, we're on top of the world. Yeah, let's go to the top of the ship and like dream and, and, and talk about, you know, our visions and goals and that sort of thing. And so I just Went up there, and. And. And then, just unexpectedly, this sonar thing started to spin. And I remember talking to someone to my right, and then to my left, the sonar starts to spin. I look to my left and right as I look to my left, it spins around, and it sweeps around and hits my friend Kendall in the chest. Sweeps him over the railing, and he falls two stories. And now it's kind of one of those falls where you think, okay, he's going to fall and look down, and he'll maybe have a broken arm or something, but he'll hop up and he'll be good to go. And then I looked down. He wasn't moving. And it was about that time, you know, my friend Christian, he yelled out. He said, hey, somebody get some help. We rushed down there. He still wasn't moving. They rushed the ship into port. They rushed him to the hospital, and he ended up passing away on the way to the hospital at 20 years old. And it was. I mean, a week or so later, I was after the funeral, and I was talking to his dad, and he was asking, you know, what happened. He was wanting to kind of understand what happened. And I told him what happened. And then he said, you know, Chandler, he said, kendall was my only son. He was the family name. He said, I'm old. I can't have more kids. The family name died with Kendall. And he said, you know, the only good that can come out of this is if other people's lives are positively impacted by the fact that this happened. And that was just. I mean, that just. Just hit me in the chest because I, like, kind of in that moment, I was. I was. I was just feeling really guilty. Like, I was like, hey, it was my idea to go up there. If I wouldn't have had that idea, Kendall would still be a lot. Like, all these things just kind of playing in my head. And so just hearing him say that, hey, the only good that can come out of this is if people's lives are positively impacted. And so I kind of flash back to the night before he passed away, and he was telling me about his goals for the year, his goals for the next few years. And I realized, Kendall's never going to get to accomplish any of those goals. I'm living for two now, right? And so it was that. And then it was a few months later, feeling or hearing that, you know, Kendall had attended one of my random webinars and trainings on how to write and publish a book, and he'd actually written most of the draft of a book, and so actually one of my right hand guys at self publishing school now, and coworker at the time, him and a couple other friends helped publish Kendall's book after he passed away. And so that's a big part of his legacy. And so then that for me, I said, hey, I'm focusing on a lot of things that don't matter right now, and there's only a few things that actually matter. My faith, my family, and the work that I'm doing with self publishing school is like actually making a difference and it's helping people. And so that was the big turning point for me where I've, you know, I've got this bracelet that I wear, I've worn every single day since then. It says on one side it says make him proud, on the other side it says wwkd. So what would Kendall do? And it's kind of a daily reminder of that and of, of why I'm doing this and that I'm living for two.

I was watching your TED Talk in which you share the story and you articulated it a titch differently about kind of that post traumatic life evaluation. You're like, yeah, I was looking at my life and basically what mattered was like my faith, my family, and publishing books. You said that specifically, like not the obvious answer, right?

Like, yeah.

So other than Kindle's experience, which obviously influences that, like why books? Why are you so passionate about this medium, huh?

Because they've changed my life. I mean, I talk about this in the beginning of my new book. It's literally the title of chapter one. It's called Books Change Lives. But you know, I believe that books change lives of readers. Right. Probably everyone listening has had their life changed by a book.

Yeah.

Or if not, I mean, at minimum, the Bible bestselling book of all time. You know, books change lives of readers, but books also change the lives of authors. Yeah, we always say it's not about the book, it's about who you become in the process of writing and publishing that book. And so, you know, I believe that books change lives. There's a concept I talk about, you probably heard me talk about in the TEDx talk too, is leveraged impact. So the ability to do work once and create a book, and then that book goes on to impact thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even millions of people. And long after you're off this earth, it's still here, making an impact.

Yeah, there's, there's so much talk these days about passive income products in once and then they sell forever. And today in our modern Context, it's all centered around digital courses and whatever. I'm like, books have been passive income products for hundreds of years, right? Like, it's the original passive income stream.

Mailbox money.

That's right, exactly.

Same in the record industry. But then also, like, and you've probably seen this, Jordan, like, I call a book a $15 mentor because when I dropped out of school, I said, I said, all right, I'm dropping out, but I've got to operate. Like, I'm still. I got to keep learning. Like, I'm still in school if I want to get where I want to go. And so I went from someone who is a C level English student and a college dropout with adhd, right? Like, hated writing, hated reading, to now. Books were the way that I learned because, you know, most of the smartest, most successful people on the planet have written a book, and if you pay 15 bucks and spend a few hours, you can learn all of the best things that they know. Right. And so that's, I mean that. So books changed my life in that way as a reader is like, I started learning and just unlocking all these things.

People ask me all the time how I read so many books, and my answer is, it's multifaceted. But one of the primary reasons is, like, I don't consume any other medium. Like, I don't spend any time, zero time listening to podcasts. I spend zero time on social media. I spend zero time reading web articles. Right? Like, I just consume this one medium. And the reason is, number one, I really view it as.

Oh, really?

Is that true?

Yeah, yeah. I listen to one podcast, that's the only one, and that's only recently. But outside of that, I mean, it's literally just books because it's so interesting.

So why is it for you? I have my reasons as to why I confine myself to one medium. And I actually think it's, like, very strategic.

Why, for you, it's just synthesized information. Right. And so that, for me is. Is books are really. I mean, people have spent years synthesizing all of the best information that they know into the tightest possible package. And so I find problems in my life or in my business, and then I find books that solve those problems, and then I read those books and it's just like the simplest, most streamlined way for me at least.

No, I think that's exactly right. I talked a little bit about this in my new book, Redeeming youg Time. Books are a more filtered form of content than anything else on the market. What I mean by that is, you know, first, in order for a book to come to market, an author has to decide they're going to spend 500 hours of their life writing it or whatever it is. That's how much time I spent writing a book. Then if you're going to go the traditional publishing route, which I know you're not and your clients are, but in my case, the author has to believe in it. An agent has to believe it's important and relevant and quality enough to say, then a publishing team of, let's call it, 15 people have to agree to publish the book and they put it through the freaking ringer. And then before I even buy the book, I probably have to hear about it from seven of my friends before I make that purchase.

Right.

Like, compare that to an Instagram post or a podcast where there's no filters, very little filters. It's just filtering for accuracy, for quality, I think for relevance, which I think is really beautiful. That's kind of why I confined myself to that medium. So. All right. Books change lives. I'm on board. I've always said this. Ask people about life changing moments. They're going to point to a person or a book. Not a course, not this podcast, not a movie, but a book. Why do you think so many people want to write a book? Because this is like a fairly universal desire.

I feel like, yeah, the New York Times says they have a study that 81% of people want to write a book. We know that less than 1% of people actually do it. You know, I think there's this. I think there's a lot of reasons. I think there's a big one for people that come to work with us is like, hey, I want to help people. Like, I feel like I have learned these things the hard way, and I want to package this up and help other people. So I think there's that. I think for some people, it's the status of becoming an author and the kind of the, the whole. The root word of authority is author. And you can't spell the word authority without the word author.

I've never heard that.

That's fine. A lot of people that's, hey, I want to, I want to become an authority on this topic. So I'm going to write a book.

Yeah.

But I know for me it was. I feel like I' some things that would help other people. So what if I crystallize it in the form of a book?

Yeah, I think there's something like deeply spiritual. I agree with everything you just said. But I also think there's this deep spiritual dimension to this. Right. Like, we can't handle the idea that our work will not outlive us.

Yes.

It's, like, so deeply ingrained in our souls. And I think some of this is pride. Right. I think we got to be careful here. But, you know, Ecclesiastes 3:11 says that God has set eternity in our hearts. And I think that longing for eternity is not just eternal living, but for work that will outlive us. And praise God. In Revelation 21, Isaiah 60 says that that longing is. Is true. And I just think that's part of this. Like, books are material, right. And. And we want something to physically outlive us. Do you think there's something to this, at least for you?

I mean, I remember the first time I got a copy of the book that I'd written, and it was. I mean, it was unbelievable. It was this feeling of, oh, I created this, and long after I'm off this earth, kind of like I said earlier, this is going to be here. It might be at a goodwill, right? But, like, it's a. This is a physical thing that I created. Where I think sometimes, especially in the online world, it feels like, will this thing be here? Like, are the servers going to keep it or all that? Like, sure, maybe. Maybe they will. Either that will happen. But a physical book, I think it. It feels like this is a product that I created that will live beyond myself. And so I certainly feel that. And I certainly felt that the first time I got a copy of my first book. I mean, it's a magical moment.

It's one of my favorite things about the biblical narrative, that this longing to do work that outlives us is true. Like the new heavens and the new earth contains culture. See Isaiah 60. See Revelation 21. Like, I just think as a creator, that's. That idea is incredibly appealing to me. Have you ever read Tolkien's short story Leaf by Neagle?

I haven't, no. I have.

Oh, my gosh. Do you know this story?

I don't. I don't know this.

I got to give the synopsis of this. I can't remember if I've shared on the podcast, but I'm confident I'll serve the listener well. So World War II hits Great Britain, where he lives, and he becomes despondent. He becomes convinced that even though he's too old to be drafted in his service, that he's going to die, and that his life's work, the Lord of the Rings, is going to be cut short along with him. And so he's hanging out with CS Lewis and the Inklings at the Eagle and Child Pub in Oxford one day. And we don't know exactly what was said in the meeting, but we know that they helped renew Tolkien's mind with the truth of scripture, that. That the things created with excellence and love and in line with God's character and command have the potential to physically last into eternity. And so Tolkien sat down and he wrote this short little parable. There's an autobiographical parable called Leaf by Nigel. And Nigel is this painter, right, who has this massive vision for a huge painting of a tree. And beyond the tree, a countryside, mountains, whatever. It's the Lord of the Rings, right? And Neagle works tirelessly, day in, day out. And at the end of his life, all he has completed is a single leaf. It's like a really depressing story, right? So they take the leaf and they frame it in a museum. But the museum burns down and everybody forgets about Nicole and his work. But then Nicole hops on this train to the heavenly afterlife. Something catches his eye, gets off the train, he runs out into this field and. And there in the middle of the field is his tree. But it's finished and it's perfect, and it's even better than he had envisioned during his time on Earth. And he sits there and he looks at. He says, this is a gift, right? And the point of the story, right, is. Hey. Working in line with the commands of the Father means that our work has the potential to physically last forever. That God would take the work that we have started here in this life and work it into his masterpiece, the new heavens and the new Earth. It's a really beautiful story. Go, go read the story. It's the most beautiful picture I've ever seen.

That's amazing. What a great story. That's awesome.

Hey, what's. I'm curious. What. We didn't talk about this when we had dinner. What's your faith story? Did you grow up in the church?

Yeah, grew up in the church. My dad was the. He was like one of the deacons at the church, and he actually ran the church's finances and that sort of thing. So grew up in the church and then, you know, my brother plays in need to Breathe, and so they. They were the church band and like, all that stuff. And so then also have kind of seen the behind the scenes of like, the Christian music world and then kind of like changed churches in high school, found a tote like Just a total, like, you mean, it was, it was, that was a really cool experience. And then kind of, I think post college, transitioning from, okay, I'm a Christian because I grew up in the church to I'm a Christian because I'm finding a personal relationship with God.

Yeah. Yeah. What does that personal relationship with God mean for your work? How do you see the work that you're doing through self publishing, school, connecting to the work that God is doing in this world?

Yeah. It's been an exploration and a journey because I think probably one of the most difficult things for me as a Christian and as a Christian in the workplace is never wanting to. Never wanting people to feel like that you're projecting your beliefs on them.

Yeah.

Or that you, gosh, it's so tough. Or never feeling like I am judging someone for the way that they believe. And I think I've almost always erred on the side of just not sharing, which I think is not the way.

To go, but I think is the most common path. I can hear listeners nodding their heads with you right now.

Yeah. When it's especially tough. I'm sure you've experienced this as a leader. Right. And so as a leader of, I'd say a predominantly Christian organization, probably 60, 70% of my staff is Christian. And so it's figuring out. And I think this is the part that's been an exploit is so, I mean, there's a lot of principles that I teach and a lot of principles that I instill in my staff that are, I mean, obviously lean, biblical, and that I've learned from my parents and from all those things. And, and hey, we are blessed to be a blessing. Like we're going to bloom where we're planted, like all these kind of like fundamental things of, of our ethos as a company. But then it's. How do you do that in a way where you're nudging people in that direction? But it's, it's, it's also not exclusionary of people who don't believe that. And so I think that's been the. As a leader, that's probably one of the toughest things to navigate is how do I integrate my faith into this business that I run while also not creating outcasts of anyone in the company who doesn't believe that. And so it's been a journey.

Yeah. And I think the Lord is honored in your wrestling with these questions. I think he's honored as all of us wrestle with these questions. But I just remind you and all of our Listeners, of course the Lord is honored. As we're trying to think about man, how do I point my team and my co workers to Christ? We also have to remember that our work matters beyond saving souls, right? That's not the only thing that God has called redeem. And oh, by the way, when Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, that was a complete sentence. That is good. Loving your customers as yourself through the self publishing school or listener. Loving your employer as yourself, as you serve them with excellence is good in and of itself. He didn't say love your neighbor as yourself so that you can tell them about me. Loving our neighbors is good. And of course we pray for opportunities to tell them about Jesus. But just doing the work and doing it well with excellence of love is good too. Hey, I wanted to ask you about something. I saw you post about this. Maybe it was in your book, I can't remember. But you have had the opportunity to be a quote unquote, lifestyle entrepreneur, right? Kicking back with your feet in the sand, whatever. But I've heard you say you can't do that. I'm curious if you think your faith informs your resistance to this idea and just this desire to be useful to the world.

That's really interesting. I've never really thought about that because I think for me the term lifestyle entrepreneur is okay. I would say yes because I feel like I've been. God gave me talents in the, in the area of business and that would, that is the way that he wants me to make a difference and kind of a similar like. And it's a one to many way. And so how can I build up leaders and how can I create leverage? How can I create impact and systems, process team, all that and develop leaders that develop other leaders and help create books which will then impact thousands or millions of people. And so I feel like those are the unique skills that God gave me and said, hey, I want you to, this is how I want you to impact the world. And so that's where I'm investing. And so my thing is always I don't want to, I don't want to be on my deathbed or at heaven's gates and look back and say, ah, I phoned it in like I did. I didn't, I didn't leave it all out on the field. And so that's been big, big for me.

It's the equivalent of bearing the talents, right?

Yes.

God's given you these talents to steward.

Yes.

And to create more talents. Right? To create a return on that.

Yeah.

And this Four hour work week lifestyle. As much as I love that book, a lot of great things in that book. This idea, the image of. It's all so that we can sleep on a hammock on the beach and not do anything.

Yeah.

It's totally antithetical to the gospel, Completely contrary to God's word. Ephesians 2:10. We have been saved. Not by works, but we have been saved, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which the Father prepared in advance for us to do. It's the very purpose of our salvation. We're not saved to just sit here and consume for eternity. We're saved to create new things that serve other people well. Right. So speaking of serving other people well, we've been talking about how our work matters for eternity. I'm always interested in how do people respond to that reality. If we believe our work matters to God, how do we respond? And one of those responses, obviously, is just getting really, really good at what we do. You're crazy good at what you do. You and I had a very long conversation in Colorado. I'm convinced you're an exceptional founder. So I'm curious, what do you think the delta between good and great is as an entrepreneur?

I mean, simply, I think the delta is thinking that you're great.

That's the best answer I've ever heard to that question. Yes.

I think it's the continuous pursuit of excellence. And this is like a very cheesy boilerplate answer, but I'm a firm believer that, and this is something I have to remind myself of, is that life and business are not about the. It's not about the destination or about the mountaintop experiences about. It's about the journey. And so do you love the journey? And if you don't love and enjoy the journey, then why are you. First off, why are you doing it?

Yeah, good question.

And that's an area to maybe pause and reflect and go. Go do something else if you don't truly love it. But if you truly love the journey you like, that is what it takes to grow. Right. It's like, I've got to wake up excited about this. And it's not always going to be easy. It's, in fact, it's been very difficult. And there's been a lot of highs and lows. Right. And a mentor of mine, he called it. Part of it is. He called it the 25% suck factor. He said, chandler, in any job or business you have, there's going to be a 25% suck factor. And that's just 25% of what you do, you're not going to enjoy doing it. And it's going to be kind of like the crappy part of your job or your business. But his theory, which I think is really interesting, is that in pursuing, never having that, we actually grow weary and it just doesn't exist. Right. And so we think like, oh, if I just get that promotion, or if I just change businesses or if I just change this, that magically that's going to go away. But it's not. Or if it does, I haven't found it yet.

Right.

And so I think there's so many things that it takes to. To be great. And. And it's. It's loving the journey. It's the pursuit of excellence. It's not thinking that you're great, because if you think you're great and if you think you've made it, well, then if you're not growing, you're dying. Right. And then there's so many other. Just principles along the journey.

No, but I think that's the core one. Right. Somebody asked me the other day, what's the hardest part of producing the Call to Mastery podcast. I didn't even have to think about the answer. The guests I want don't view themselves as masters, even though they could. They objectively are. Right. We're talking like United States senators. We're talking about CEOs of Fortune 100 companies. Right. They don't believe they're. They refuse to accept that label. Right. And that's the hallmark of a true master, ironically. Right. Is somebody who believes that better is always possible.

Yeah.

So, dude, you're not just an entrepreneur, you're also a writer for. You talked about this. I loved your book published. I thought it was terrific. Helping people books. I'm curious, though, if you found that writing books has helped you grow more masterful at your core craft of entrepreneurship. Because these are somewhat different disciplines. I'm curious if writing has made you better as an entrepreneur.

Oh, no doubt, no doubt. I mean, writing a book, it forces you to crystallize what you believe and crystallize what you know. So it's synthesis of thought on both sides. Right. Just like we said, hey, it's the most compact use of information as readers. That's why we only read books. And it's kind of like a sole medium. It's also, on the flip side, it forces you as the author, to synthesize your thoughts. I think, secondly, it's one of the best things I've ever done to grow my Business. I mean, the first version of Published has generated millions of dollars in revenue for self publishing school. I mean, I believe that as an entrepreneur, a book is the best thing that you can do to grow your business. It'll help you bring in more leads, it'll help you bring in more referrals, and it'll help you get, bring in more sales for your business. And so that is kind of, that has been the jumping off point. And that's why I prioritized so heavily. I said, hey, I want to write the second edition of Published and just released that in December is because I knew that, hey, if I do this right, this can generate tens of millions of dollars in revenue for self publishing school over the next few years. And so I think there's those two pieces and then there's maybe one that's only applicable to me and less so for other people, but maybe so is it forces you to get back into the trenches and do the work.

Yeah, right.

And so for me it was, I am going back to the student experience and seeing, oh, how can we make things better? So I had so many product ideas, so many innovations and tools and things like that. And so it just, it helps you get back in the trenches. And then I was able to crystallize my focus and say, hey, what are the one or two things that we really need to be equipping our customers with at the starting point of their journey to help them make more progress and to help them kind of connect the dots between finding us and doing business with us and becoming a customer and all that stuff. So in a lot of ways, yes.

Yeah. I get asked all the time from people like, hey, I got this book concept that I'm thinking about writing, but I don't like really want to be like a full time author. Like, should I do it? Like, you know, I just have this like marketing job or I'm a CEO of this company and I almost always say, yes, 100% do it because I think it helps you pursue mastery of your core craft, whatever that craft is, in a couple of ways. You know, first it just makes you a better writer, which is a skill that's valuable for pretty much any career on the planet. If you send emails, being a better writer can help you there. But also if you're writing a book about what you do, as you said, it helps you strengthen your thinking on this topic in a way that other mediums can't. Write a blog post, you can edit it after you publish it. A book you can't and so the pressure is so much greater to really make sure you've got your thinking done down before you turn in that manuscript.

Yes.

Right. Yeah.

Yes. It's a very different experience. And so you're creating frameworks, right. Which if we're talking about mastery, if we're talking about leverage, if we're talking about all those things like frameworks and systems and process are what helps bring leverage in what you do on the daily. Right. And so. And one of the best ways to do that is through a book. And so now you are getting more effective at explaining what you do clearly.

Right.

At explaining core concepts. But then you're also creating frameworks that you can roll into your business or your job or whatever it is that consumes most of your time, which just helps that be more effective. And it's just kind of a virtuous cycle.

Yeah. Hey, you mentioned focusing your team, right? As you were going through this experience by, hey, team, we really need to focus on these one or two features. I just believe as an entrepreneur, as a leader, frankly, anyone working, I think focus is the silver bullet. And I'm curious what you do practically day in, day out, week in, week out, quarter over quarter, to keep to. Number one, identify what's most essential for the business. And number two, keep yourself and your team focused on those few essential things.

Yeah. There's one or two thoughts I have here. I mean, focus stands for follow one course until successful. Right. And I love that.

Yeah, that's good.

And I think the two most dangerous questions as an entrepreneur are what's new? And what's next? Right. And so, so many times when we come to conferences or whatever, people say, hey, what's new? What's next? Right. And for me, the answer has often been boring, is what's new? Not a whole lot what's next? A lot more of what we were already doing, but better. That's not the sexy answer to come in and say. So I think my two favorite questions are, how can I make this simple? And how can I do more of what's working?

Yeah.

And so I ask my team that all the time. How can we make this simple? How can we do more of what's working? And so I just keep coming back to that. I have this analogy. I call it the light bulb versus the whack a molecule.

Yeah.

And so, so many times in business we play a game of whack a mole, right? Problem pops up, we fix the problem, and then it pops up again. But there's this story that I love it's from Howard Schultz, founder of Starbucks. He was driving and he saw a light out, you know, on this, on a random Starbucks sign, you know, like when the lights are out and it spells something funny or it just, you can't really tell what it is. So he saw a light out. And what would be the natural thing that most people would jump to? It's oh, who's the manager of this store? I'm going to call them, give them a piece of my mind, tell them they need to be managing their store better. Right. But what he did instead, which I thought was really interesting when I read, when I read this book, right, is he said, what's the system that we have on a national level that can keep this from happening ever again? And that is the light bulb, right. So what's the light bulb solution versus the whack a mole quick fix? So those are kind of a lot of the ways that I try to keep the team focused.

It's really good. That's really good. A big part of mastery of any vocation is having a great routine. I'm curious for you personally, what's your daily routine look like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed?

Yeah, I'm very structured and routine. It's one of those things where, you know, you grow up and there's things about your parents that you're like, I will never do that or I will do that. And I've told myself I'd never be as routine as my dad and sure enough, I am. So, I mean, for me, it's the morning routine that's the most important thing. Consistent wake up time, 6am I have a pretty solid morning routine and reading, meditation, all that stuff. And a buddy of mine wrote a book called the Miracle Morning. I highly recommend on, on that, that is, that's the one thing such that doing it makes everything else easier and necessary. So the morning routine is the most important part of my day. And, and if I just do that, my day will be awesome. If I don't, it won't be. And so that's why I never, I just never miss that.

Wait, so dive, dive a level deeper into this. Give us the detailed morning routine for you.

Yeah, 6:00am Wake up and evolved. And because I think when I first started implementing this, it's like, how do I have the most elaborate morning routine ever? Because that's what successful people do, right? But like this, this two hour thing, but it's pretty simple now. It's, it's wake up, make Coffee, start reading and I'm listening to an audiobook while I'm just like do a little mini workout. So 65 push ups, 65 sit ups. Listening to an audiobook, make coffee, read. And then from there it's oftentimes meditate. And then I'm doing intermittent fasting now, but then it used to be like make a smoothie or eggs or something and then put on work clothes, which working from home, that's big for me is I put on work clothes and I go to my office and then at the end of the day I take off my work clothes. So just to kind of help that separate the work from work from your home. And so that's the kind of deep dive on the morning routine. And then it's, I mean, focused effort in the morning. I try to keep meetings out of mornings and then specifically on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, as much as possible. And then it's focus time in the morning. That's prime time for me. And so that's number one task number one. You know, I kind of do like quarterly, yearly, monthly, weekly goal setting and that sort of thing. And then one thing is that is a nap every, every day, every afternoon.

Interesting.

Yeah. So I woke up from my nap a few minutes before this podcast interview. And that's a, that's a non negotiable for me. And then, and then there's kind of like the wind down and the plan the next day and I'll, you know, wrap up a day, 5, 36, maybe even a little bit later. But that's kind of the typical there.

It's good. I love it. All right, three questions. We wrap up every conversation with this first one. I usually ask guests which books they gift most frequently, but since your mantra is books change lives, I'm just going to put a different twist on it. Which books have most changed your life? Chandler.

So many. I've got a YouTube video. It's like the top 10 most impactful.

Great. What are they?

I'm trying to remember all of them, but one of the biggest ones is Extreme Ownership. That's one of the best leadership books of all time. And that one. And then as far as impact, I mean, I already mentioned it, but the miracle morning, like it's not, it's not a revolutionary book, but doing it is, it's, it's a, it's just really well packaged.

Yeah, it's good. Who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith intersects with their pursuit of great work?

Easy. Dabo Sweeney head coach of the Clemson Tigers football team.

That's a good answer. All right, what's one thing from our conversation today that you want to reiterate to our listeners before we sign off? And just keep in mind, this is a group of listeners who all love Jesus. Very diverse in terms of what they do. What they share is a love of Christ and a desire to do, do great work in service of him and others. What do you want to leave them with?

Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing that I would leave folks with and this is a little bit, you know, just specific to the stuff that we teach, but would be that, like, if you think that you want to write a book, there's never going to be a perfect time to do it.

Yes.

And if you, if some of the things that you heard today resonated and you're thinking, okay, I want to crystallize this information into something that's going to live beyond me, the timing's never going to be right. You're going to have to get started before you're ready. And what I encourage you to do is as soon as this podcast interview is over, just grab a blank sheet of paper and write your book topic, the thing that you might think you'd write about in the center of the page, and then spend 15 minutes mind mapping everything that you can think of on this topic. So stories that you have, lessons that you've learned, books that you've read, experiences, all those things, and just start mind mapping and you might just realize that this could really be a book and you've got a whole lot of knowledge on this topic that you could share.

That's terrific advice, Chandler. I want to commend you for the exceptional work you and your team do every day. Thank you for coming alongside authors and just helping them tell the stories that God has put in their hearts. And thank you for inspiring our listeners to tell their own stories. This is super helpful, super practical, guys. Chandler's terrific book is published and you can learn more about the book, about his work@selfpublishingschool.com that's self-publishingschool.com Chandler. Thanks for hanging out with us, Jordan.

You're the man. Thank you so much for having me.

So as soon as we got the air, Chandler told me that he's gonna send you guys 50 free physical copies of his terrific book, published. First 50 people to claim it. Get it. Sign up right now@published book.com. jordan. That's me. J o r d a n. First 50 people will get a free copy of his terrific book. Hey, guys, if you're enjoying the Call to Mastery, do me a favor. Go leave a quick review of the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thank you guys for tuning in. I'll see you next week.